This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Welcome to the Wednesday evening talk at Beginner's Mind Temple. I want to thank Tim Latanto for inviting me to give this talk. And to the Eno and the rest of the Do on Rio for supporting me in giving this talk by striking bells and offering flower petals with me and getting the room set up. And I want to thank each of you for being here. A lot of faces I know and some faces I have not seen before. So welcome if it's your first time.

[01:00]

And for those of you who don't know me, my name is Heather. And I am, I live here at City Center now after many years of living at Tassajara, which is the Zen monastery about four hours from here in Carmel Valley. And there's a number of those people here now, the Tassajara folks, because there's been an evacuation, as some of you might know, because of a fire that most likely won't get there, hopefully. But nonetheless, too much smoke and heat. So people evacuated here as well as that to Green Gulch. So welcome, Tassajara people. So I'm going to talk about a koan this evening.

[02:05]

And I've been working with koans with this teacher for about four and a half years now. This is not a koan that we've been working on together. So maybe that's helpful because I'm stuck on this koan. Although he keeps saying I'm not stuck on this koan. Not this one, but another one. He's like, that's part of the process. But I feel kind of stuck. So on that koan. So hopefully he won't hear this talk and say, hey, you're stuck on that one as well. But who knows? I thought it might be fun to just explore this koan. And some of you might be familiar with it. So I'll start. So a monk said to Deng Xiaon, cold and heat descend upon us. How can we avoid them? Dongshan said, why don't you go where there is no cold or heat? The monk said, where is the place where there is no cold or heat?

[03:08]

Dongshan said, when cold, let it be so cold that it kills you. When hot, let it be so hot that it kills you. Another way this has been translated is when it's cold, let it be so cold that it finishes you. And when hot, let it be so hot that it kills you. demolish is you so this other translation as well if that word kills is a little too strong so first what is a koan as some of you probably know because now koans just seem to be or the word anyway like Zen people seem to know more about Zen or they think they know more about Zen because it's out there we have the internet and Unfortunately, we have also AI in some ways. But when I was in college, I never heard of Zen. I never heard of koan. But koan is an enigmatic story. And in Chinese, it means something akin to an official public case.

[04:11]

And in Japanese, a matter for public thought. So this was something that was taken up to be discussed. And literally, it was a case in China, like on the docket, that was actually being... if you will, I guess, litigated. So koans are these paradoxical anecdotes that some teachers, especially in the Rinzai Zen tradition, employ to help students come to some realization that's beyond discriminative thinking. So although koans are not, although they're puzzling, they're not puzzles to be figured out with our logical mind, with our thinking mind. They are utilized by Zen teachers to confound this logical mind, and break through the barrier of words and phrases to a spiritual epiphany. And then we use this word, kensho. And kensho in Japanese means seeing, and sho means essence. So ken means seeing, sho means essence. So it's a seeing into the true nature of reality or seeing into our true essence.

[05:15]

So kensho is a dropping off of body, mind. a non-dual experience of emptiness, or as we chant in the morning in the hymn to the perfection of wisdom, this own being of all dharmas. And dharma, little d dharma, is conditioned phenomena. Big d dharma refers to the teaching of the Buddha. So in this chant during our liturgy, it says that the perfection of wisdom, this personification of wisdom, this in this case a female personification of wisdom knows the own being of all dharmas for she does not stray away from it unlike me who strays away from it all the time so we can only become intimate with this essence of the koan or any koan really by dropping below these words and phrases right and of course I have to use words and phrases to discuss this koan And my teacher's teacher, Dainin Katigiri Roshi, would say, you have to say something.

[06:23]

So I am going to say something, and I hope that it is illuminating in some way. So first off, the teacher in this koan, he's a Chan teacher from the Tang Dynasty. His name is Dongshan Linji, or in Japanese, which is easier for me to pronounce, Tozan Ryokai. Dongshan lived between 807 and 869, and he is the founder of the Soto Zen School or Sha Deng Zen School. And he devised this profound teaching called the Five Ranks, which guides practitioners in their understanding of the relative and the absolute. And for those of you who have been to our Zen services in the morning, and have had the good fortune of hearing us, of chanting with us, the song of the Jewel Mirror Samadhi. That's also attributed to him, although recently I was reading that he might not have written it at all, but that's okay since I'm not a scholar.

[07:29]

I just stick with the profundity, perhaps, and not necessarily, and so concerned about the authorship, right, for me. So when the monk asks Dengshan, how can we avoid cold and heat? Or maybe for those of you who just came from Tassajara, how can you avoid smoke and dust and more smoke and dust? Does he mean this literally? Is this question just about how to avoid this extreme weather? Yes and no. The monk is asking this teacher a question that many of us have probably pondered. I know that I have. How can I avoid what I dislike? And conversely, how can I get what I like? One trait that we share with Other sentient beings is that we human animals move away from pain and move toward pleasure, right? We don't want something and so we move away from it or we really want something and we grasp onto it.

[08:31]

So depending on many factors like our socioeconomic status and our location, We can manipulate our environment and avoid a certain amount of physical discomfort. Now, this probably wasn't that true back in the Song dynasty, in the Tang dynasties, and when Dogen was around in the 1200s because they didn't have air conditioners, right? I mean, there's so many cities in the United States and around the world where you wouldn't be able to live because there's no air conditioning. And I'm sure, and there are many places where people don't have air conditioning and their bodies are attuned to the climate because they don't have the ability to manipulate it, and so their body has attuned itself to that climate. Well, I think more to the heat, I don't think you can survive as well in the cold. But here, if we dislike the cold weather, we can turn up the heat in our houses, put on warm clothes, or we could also move to a warmer state

[09:36]

If we dislike hot weather, we could put on the air conditioner or a fan, if people still have those, put on shorts and a T-shirt, or move to a colder climate. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with attending to our physical needs and being safe and comfortable. However, when we habitually move away from psycho-emotional suffering, and sometimes physical discomfort can... activate psycho-emotional suffering or exacerbate psycho-emotional suffering if we're in tremendous physical pain from an illness or a temporary a temporary injury and as we all know since we are human animals we all know there's countless ways that we suffer and there's also counts countless ways to avoid the suffering I think especially in our modern society where we can intoxicate ourselves with food, entertainment, work, sex, exercise, the internet, on and on and on.

[10:43]

There's a plethora of ways that are very easily accessible. One of them is a handheld Mara, right? Our phones, just constant Mara, just, oh, there's the god of temptation, look at that, let me go, like the doom scrolling, right, as some people call it, which I love that, just, this way that we can distract ourselves from what's going on. So even though these activities are physical, I feel that the urge to distract ourselves from suffering or dissatisfaction originates in our discriminating mind. Because we're so adept at avoiding our suffering, we don't even know sometimes that we are suffering. I know before I... started practicing Zen in 2001, no one even really talked about suffering. And I remember when I went to the Austin Zen Center for the first time, well, not for the first time, I didn't walk in and everyone said, oh, are you suffering?

[11:47]

Glad you're here. I mean, that wasn't how they greeted me, but just finally people were discussing the mind and suffering, very different from my Roman Catholic upbringing, where that was just our cross to bear. even though no one again said the word suffering. So it was really a relief to be in this community where people openly spoke of suffering and the causes of suffering, as well as the cessation of suffering and the path leading to the cessation of suffering. This is, of course, called the Four Noble Truths. So we get caught by distractions, right, our iPhone. We often forget that our small mind, the one that's being distracted, is creating the suffering. It is the origin of suffering. This is extremely important, I feel, for us to remember because this means our liberation isn't dependent on external circumstances.

[12:54]

So if the small mind or a discriminating mind is the cause of the suffering, then this is also the place where suffering can be transformed. As we know, there is no perfect place where there's no cold and no heat, or no smoke or dust, or no sadness or no anger. All of these are examples of little deep dharmas, right? Condition phenomena. So Dengshan's initial response to this monk, it might seem like he's encouraging him to avoid his dislikes. So why don't you just go where there's no colder heat? I hear San Diego is a great place for that, right? I mean, isn't it always like 75 degrees or so? Like it doesn't ever seem to get cold or hot there, people tell me. But of course we know there really isn't any place that probably never gets cold or hot.

[13:56]

There's also, I think, What he's alluding to or stating directly is, you know, there's no escaping these causes and conditions of life. And I think Dengshan was also exhorting this monk to continue to investigate the origins of suffering. I think he's also highlighting here that we cannot know cold without heat and heat without cold. So cold and heat are relative and impermanent arisings, right? Impermanent dharmas, which is redundant. But we don't know what cold is unless we experience tea, and we don't know what heat is unless we've experienced cold in this dualistic way of being in the world. Also, our likes and dislikes, our subjective state of mind. I used to, one of my housemates in Washington, D.C., like he loved... Humid, 95 degree weather.

[14:59]

He was raised in Chicago, never wanted to be in a cold climate again. I can't stand 95 degree humid weather. So there is no subject, there is no objective reality. What worked for him as far as weather did not work for me at all. So this is a subjective state of mind. And usually, and also I want to mention maybe we don't notice this so much, but because we can manipulate our environment to a certain extent, I think it also allows us to complain more. It's like, because we have this ability to do this as a human animal, we have all these human tricks, again, the air conditioners, the fans, the fire, obviously very important in our evolution as human animals, but just somehow it, introduces this complaining because we know it could be warmer or colder somehow and we should have a trick to do that to make that happen so the discriminating mind also compares the present to the non-existent past and the non-existent future and we do this all the time especially with the weather I mean

[16:21]

When I was growing up, there was just like literally 12 minutes before the weather, not even, it was like a little cardboard sun with a little cardboard cloud. Said it was going to be a certain amount, you know, they didn't even go like hour by hour forecast. It was just, it's going to rain today, folks, take your umbrella. I mean, it wasn't this satellite weather mapping. So now it's like we're so overly prepared, at least in certain societies, we're so overly prepared for the weather. Maybe that takes away some of the surprise of a shower that might happen while we're out without our umbrella. God forbid we should get wet. So I do feel that these modern conveniences give us this illusion that we're more in control because we can manipulate many aspects of our existence, especially when it comes to getting away from physical discomfort and even emotional discomfort, of course, right, with the way we... can go into fantasy land in our mind and also through the phone or binging on Netflix, all the ways that we move away from what's happening right now here in the body-mind.

[17:35]

I think the benefit, one of the benefits of Zen practice is that it really helps us to stay, or at least reminds us to stay present. to what's going on. And even just in acknowledging what's happening, that gives a little space before perhaps our mind starts running away with all the ways everything should be different, especially the way people should be different so I can feel a certain way or not feel a certain way. And just really try to be with what's happening in the moment without all the overlays from the past and without all the mind bringing forward all the projections from the quote-unquote future and laying them over what's going on in the moment. So this place where there is no cold or heat, obviously it's not a physical place.

[18:41]

It's not a country we can move to or a room we can seal ourselves off in. That's not what Dengshan's talking about. In his fascicle, which just means a teaching essay, Spring and Autumn, Ehe Dogen Zenji, who, for those of you who don't know, he founded the Soto Zen School in Japan in the 1200s. He exhorts us in this teaching, Spring and Autumn, to examine this monk's question. When cold or heat comes, how can we avoid it? When cold and heat comes, how can we avoid it? And Dogen Zenji says, this is to study the very moment when cold comes or the moment when heat comes. This cold or heat, complete cold or complete heat, is itself

[19:45]

cold or heat. Accordingly, when either comes, it comes from the summit of cold or the summit of heat and manifests the eyeball of cold itself or heat itself. This summit is where there is no cold or heat. This eyeball is where there is no cold or heat. So Dogen Zenji is expressing the absolute source or summit of heat and cold before the mind creates a distinction. For the mind conjures up its comparisons before the mind says, oh, this is hot and this is cold and really believes all of that. And this eyeball is awakened vision or this clear seeing or an awakened perception. awakened perception of reality from the summit, where there is no cold and there is no heat, this place, if you will, that's beyond or before distinction, before dualistic thinking arises, what some people refer to as direct experience or bare perception.

[20:58]

So when Dengshan tells the monk, when it's cold, let it be so cold that it kills you or that it finishes you, He's instructing the monk to question whether these apparent distinctions actually exist. He's also reminding him to employ this eyeball of awakened perception, to see through the dualism. And here's what's, this is the fundamental point in my humble opinion, to see through the dualism so that the separation between me and heat, between me and cold, So the separation between the subject and object disintegrates. Just cold, just heat, if you feel like you need to label it. I don't think it really changes anything, but the mind likes to label. So when this false sense of separation falls away, so does suffering. Dogen Zenji says this, Colder heat, just as it was precisely the place

[22:03]

where there existed no cold or heat. While living in the cold, the enlightened person lived in cold, in total freedom, right? So while living in the cold, the enlightened person lived in cold in total freedom. While living in heat, one lived in the same way. So living in heat, living in the 95-degree humid weather, and total freedom. Total freedom for my housemate, not for Heather. So if we're not able to perceive heat and cold from the summit where there's no cold or heat, if we don't have this awakened perception, I still feel that we can cultivate the physical and mental posture, if you will, which is what we're doing when we're in Zazen, when we're in seated meditation. We're sitting like a mountain, just stable, physical posture, and we're working with what's arising that might be stressful for us, might be causing us some suffering or lack of ease.

[23:11]

So when we meet arising circumstances with equanimity, our karmic habitual patterns are gradually burned off. That is, our old selves die. These identities start to slough off. When we just feel the cold or the heat without interpretations, this is true intimacy, true freedom. So before I ever heard this koan, I had a physical experience of it. So I, in the months leading up to moving to Tassajara for the first time in 2008, I had heard stories from a lot of people because at Austin Zen Center there were a number of people who had spent time at Tassajara, like four or five people. And I was very afraid of the cold. And they kept telling me that it was going to be really cold and most likely I wouldn't have heat.

[24:14]

So it wasn't so encouraging. And I almost didn't go because who wants to be cold and miserable and not be able to keep yourself warm, which... obviously we need to keep ourselves at a certain temperature in order for us to survive so I almost didn't come I almost didn't move to Tassajara in 2008 because of this but fortunately my karma was such that I was fairly I was fairly motivated by a lot of heavy afflictive emotions so fortunately my aspiration slash desperation to be free from heavy, afflictive emotions was much more powerful than the fear of being cold. So I went. So my first practice period, what we call Tungario practice period, was in the fall of 2008. And let me say, I froze. It was so cold in my little tatami cabin.

[25:17]

There was no insulation. If you looked up the floorboard, there was just a ground, right? There were no glass windows. It was just shoji screens, which are beautiful, but they're just rice paper. So if it was 26 degrees outside, it was also 26 degrees in my cabin. And so I would spend my night before I went to, sometimes before I went to Zazen, sometimes when I came back in the evening, I'd be eating these like Clif bars, you know, and just like literally shivering. And then I would get into, which is not a good idea, by the way, because I wasn't burning off any of those calories. Not as many as I had hoped. But I also got into, I had like three, I didn't even have one of those fancy, you know, down, you know, rated 28 degree or something sleeping bags. I barely even camped in my life, never mind having a sleeping bag. So I went down to the Goodwill, which is where people drop off stuff. And I got this old flannel sleeping bag, the one that you zip open and there's like the ducts inside of it.

[26:24]

I don't know. I'm sure some of you are old enough to remember. And I probably still sell those at Campmore or something. But it was old and it was heavy. And I, you know, I was under all these layers. everything I could put on I slept with my clothes on practically right so then I so this was really wonderful it was a really great practice which we always say that in Zen but this for sure this was for me in the sense that I couldn't escape the cold right and at Tassajara as well we would stand on the back of the zendo on this wooden walkway, which also was not insulated. I mean, there was just a ground beneath it. It was elevated, though, and it was freezing. The wood blanks were just cold, and my feet were freezing. And I'd stand back there, and my feet felt so cold, they're like hot coals, like swollen, thick bricks. And then plus there was an abbot who was a lot more stoic back then than he currently is now.

[27:26]

And I won't say who he is, but some of you might guess. And so he wouldn't let us wear socks into the meditation hall. Never mind scarf. You couldn't wear a scarf or a hat. You couldn't wear socks. So when I was serving, you know, carrying these bowls and pots of food to serve my fellow monks, my feet were so cold I could barely walk on them. zendo floor, the meditation hall floor, so I was almost like in tears. And then one morning, like in late November, I was walking across this little creek to go to the dining room after serving in the morning. Breakfast, I went and put on my socks and put on my boots to go into the dining room, which is heated, thankfully. And this student, another Tongario person, it was her first practice period, she walks past me, and I was trying not to cry, but I'm not very... Back then, I was really not good at not crying. So I was just crying, and my face was all red. And she's like, what's happening? And she gave me a hug.

[28:26]

And I said, oh, my God, my feet are so, and I'm sure I cursed, effing cold. And then a moment later, after I uttered those words, I was surprised to hear me say, and I'm exaggerating. And then we both started laughing. And it didn't really strike me then what happened. actually meant so this is 2008 but there was some part of me that knew that all these stories I had about the cold and mother nature was out to get me and the abbot was definitely out to get me and why can't I wear socks and all this on and on and on some of you probably know my favorite word is papancha the way the mind elaborates right all these conceptual overlays so there was some part of me that knew that there was an exaggeration going on, even though my feet were really, really, really cold. And I haven't worn socks in the Zendo since 2008, since the end of that practice period.

[29:35]

Because in that moment, and even though I didn't really fully grok it, but something was killed. Something was sloughed off. Something was demolished. something was finished, just with that spontaneous utterance of, and I'm exaggerating. So through the practical magic of Zazen, I was able to stay with a lot of stories about the cold and how inhumane it was and how awful the abbot was. everybody else who didn't who had heat how awful they were why did they get to have heat and I didn't get to have heat and that person's 50 or they're not 50 or they shouldn't be in there whatever all the stories were all those stories kept me from guess what just experiencing cold experiencing my cold feet the cold sensations on the wooden planks behind the meditation hall waiting to step in to serve and

[30:45]

since there's a lot of zazen, a lot of hours of facing yourself, facing that wall, a lot of this stuff just kept burning through, right? Just kept coming up and did my best for it to stay out of all the stories, out of all the, you know, not engaging all that papancha, the proliferating mind, and just coming back to my body, dropping those stories over and over again. And there was a lot of stories Fortunately, there was a lot of zazen. And if I had not been in this freezing cabin, I would have been able to avoid the heat. And let me say this. Let me say that you could ask Abbott David. He wasn't there. He wasn't the abbot, but he was the director at the time. I am not exaggerating at all when I said I complained. I complained like, I mean, the abbot said, Heather, stop your whinging. So... I was like, I don't know what does that mean, but I know what it means. It means I was complaining so much that one of the senior people there finally said, could you just give her heat?

[31:51]

So the next practice period, I got heat, right? And I have to say, let me just say, back then, the dorm, which was also heated, there's nine rooms, and we used to alternate between men and women. So it used to be all men, and then the next year used to be all women. This is back before we talked about gender fluidity and unisex and all that. More nuanced ways of working with gender. So let me say that I was in this heated cabin and I always felt like I was on vacation because all of a sudden I could relax. I didn't realize how uptight my body had been because I was cold all the time. And so the guys moved into the dorm. They were in the dorm that second practice period. And the heat went out. And they were so cold. Now they were all complaining about the cold. And they had their scarves on and their hats not in the Zendo. And I felt a little vindicated, which is saying, because they were all much younger than me. But it was such a relief to be in a heated cabin.

[32:57]

I mean, really, I felt like I could finally relax. And yeah, it was incredible how constricted my body felt. And yet, like I said, if I had been able to avoid the cold, that arising would have never happened. It was such a helpful experience to walk into that cabin at night. You're sort of expecting it to be a little bit warmer, but it's not really any warmer. And I remember going in there once and just having this, or maybe not even once this happened. It was like, it was just so still and dark. You have those little lanterns flickering. and just feeling like I was going to die physically as an animal, just feeling like I was going to be annihilated. And I don't think I've ever had a conscious experience of that before. My life's never really been threatened in that way.

[33:58]

So it was just an animal instinct. I'm going to die, which, you know, obviously I didn't die, but that was really strong for me. And I also want to confess that I did eventually persuade the stoic abbot to let me get battery-operated socks that had a little 9-volt battery at the top, and it heated my toes. And my friend Geeta, who is from India, I mention that because she just never saw these things before. Obviously, she's from India. I don't think it gets super cold there. But she would call them, oh, you have your magic socks on, Heather, your magic socks. So I did wear my magic socks in. And then at the end of the practice period, I vowed not to wear socks in again. And I think I probably left them in the goodwill for someone else to pick up. So yeah, it was really helpful to practice with this cold, right?

[35:03]

So for me, practicing Zazen was a way for me to turn toward this physical pain and psycho-emotional suffering with this cold. And that psycho-emotional suffering, in a way, it insulated me from the cold because I wasn't really with the cold. I was with all these stories being tossed around, buffeted by all these stories that really didn't allow me to feel the cold. And it was... It's just so much easier to deal with the cold when it was just cold. It was just the physical sensations of cold. So Dogen calls this taking the backward step, right? When we're practicing seated meditation or walking meditation or lying down meditation or standing meditation, it's this backward step to eliminate ourselves. And as he instructs us in this essay that we chant, at San Francisco Zen Center called Fuka Zazengi or universally recommended instructions for seated meditation.

[36:09]

He says this, you know, think of not thinking. How do you think of not thinking? Non-thinking. This in itself is the essential art of Zazen. So dropping below the thinking mind, the mind that compares heat to cold and past to present to reconnect with the physicality of our bodies in the present moment. So Zen, you know, it is a body practice. We take up the practice of being a body which creates no distinctions, which always sits on the summit of heat and on the summit of cold. And there's this wonderful capping phrase. So capping verse or phrase is just Zen teachers or Zen masters commentary or verse on a koan. And this Zen teacher I've not heard of, and they say he's only really mostly famous because of this capping phrase on this koan.

[37:14]

His name was Zen Master Fudung of Mount Yi. And so here's what he says about this koan. Where there is no cold or heat is Dengshan's phrase. This place is is where a number of Zen persons get lost. Go for fire when it is cold. Cool yourself when it is hot. All your life, you can avoid cold and heat. Thank you very much. I don't know if we have time for four minutes or four questions. Four minutes. Four quick questions. Thank you. So, you know, like I think as myself experiencing these things, like for example, when I first moved into the temple and had to wake up at 5 a.m.

[38:22]

every day, you know, that was one thing to work with. But then, you know, sometimes there is and somebody else who's experiencing these things and let's say somebody in charge or somebody you know like the abbot in the stories that you mentioned has to decide whether to to kind of either treat that person with tough love or to kind of or to find a balance between treating them with tough love and maybe listening to their body and being like okay well actually maybe this isn't working for you and it almost seems like there's a very fine line between hey like my toes are freezing off or your toes are freezing off or like maybe you should investigate whether something can be dropped away um and yeah how do you navigate like that finding that balance that's a great question and and It's hard to answer, like, hypothetically, because obviously it's case by case. I have to say that because this particular abbot was pretty strict, it was really helpful for me.

[39:33]

There was no time, really, at which he said, yeah, Heather, you can wear socks in the Zendo, until I really, like, super pleaded with him. And, I mean, it took months for me to get that permission. And I do feel like this is why it's really important to have a relationship with a teacher because they get to know you. They get to see where you're stuck. They get to see your habit patterns, especially if you're honest with them. And it was just what I needed. Like, I didn't want to be able to manipulate the shingi, if you will. like to wear the socks and the Zendo. And I gained and lost so much because I wasn't allowed to wear socks for so long. So there's something about that container, you know, City Center as well, it's not as strict, but there's something about the container where we get to just feel ourselves, our likes and dislikes, we rub up against the container.

[40:36]

You know, and hey, if we want to escape, especially here at City Center, it's really easy to escape. Not so easy at Tassajara. But there are ways to do that. So it's like, what is our motivation for practice, right? If we're here to escape, that's not going to help us alleviate our suffering, transform our suffering. If we can work with a teacher who can say, yeah, and I bet you you can go into the Zendo without your socks on. And I bet you you're okay with getting up at five or... investigate that and see how it feels, watch those stories, drop them and get up at five anyway. Because we think that we're faking out the mind and we're in control, but we're not, right? And we don't necessarily always see that. Maybe we see it more in session or like a one-day sit or a three-day session. We think that we're outsmarting the mind, but usually we're not, right? So yes, it is. I think it's a case-by-case student, teacher, relationship where they can help, yeah, help you reach your deepest aspiration of waking up and tasting some freedom in the middle of that suffering, you know, experiencing a little bit of that summit.

[41:49]

So, yeah. So thank you for being here and waking up at five. We're at time. Okay. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered at no cost and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[42:26]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_95.5