This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. As I often mention, at a time like this, at the beginning of an assembly like this, that... I would like to say the names of each person, but this group is a little bit large, and it would take so long that we wouldn't have much time left for anything else. But I want to acknowledge that I would like to say each person's name, have everybody hear your name, and everyone say your name. Because this assembly is a precious jewel. One with the Buddha and the Dharma.

[01:05]

Today, again, we are living in the midst of crisis. Environmental crisis, including the land and the seas and all the animals and plants. We are living in a cultural crisis. We are living in a crisis of justice and injustice. We are living in a political crisis. And the word crisis means turning point. So we are at a turning point in all these matters. And we wonder how to practice in crisis. how to practice in a way that we can accept our responsibility in this crisis and respond in a way that frees beings from suffering and allows us to live together in peace.

[02:30]

How can we face the world comes to us in a way that we can respond appropriately. In other words, how can we practice the Buddha way? Bodhisattva's vow to attain authentic awakening in order to benefit all beings and to transmit to them and transmit with them so they can join the process of freeing beings to live in peace. And as we often say, our practice is

[03:34]

is just to be ourself. Just to be ourselves completely. And today I want to emphasize that we cannot be completely ourselves without the help of others. We can be completely ourselves with the help of others. We can be ourselves in intimate and thorough conversation with others. And again, as part of this authentic conversation, which allows us and others to be

[04:41]

just who they are, which is Buddha. We need to invite others to call us into question. We need to welcome others to criticize us, to give us feedback, to help us become who we are and be who we are. I have some idea of myself, but that's not what I am. I am a being who has ideas of himself, but I am not just my idea of myself. Like I could have an idea that I'm a Zen priest. But you may have some question about that. You may have some critique of that, which I need you to give me so that I can become who I am and not be stuck in my idea of who I am.

[05:53]

Normally, we are confined, even you could say imprisoned, in our ideas of ourselves. We cannot get out just by our own effort. We need to make a concerted effort with all others that we meet in order to become free of our ideas of ourself and our ideas of our practice and our ideas of our awakening. Zen practice is a transmission face-to-face where we call each other into question, be fully what we are and realize Buddhahood. And in that realization, respond to the constant crisis of our life.

[06:57]

Buddhism is a tradition which wants to be criticized in order to be what it truly is. One ancient teacher who lived more than a thousand years ago in China, his name was Dharma eye or Dharma eyes. Fayan. He taught very well how to question others and how to be questioned by others. And in this mutual questioning, realize awakening.

[08:09]

On one occasion, a monk named Hui Zhao asked him, what is Buddha? And he said, you are Hui Zhao. And Hui Zhao, Entered. Awakening. With his teacher. Dharma eyes. He didn't say exactly. You are Buddha. He said. You are Hui Zhao. If you asked him. In your case. He would say. You are. Charlotte, you are Rosemary.

[09:20]

You are Dale. You are Anne. You are Patty. It's not that you're Buddha, it's that you being completely you is Buddha. It's not that a tree is Buddha, but a tree completely being a tree is Buddha. And a tree... Being completely a tree liberates beings and realizes peace. A rock, being completely a rock, frees all beings. And we need to help the trees and the rocks and the water and all the animals. We need to help them. We need to question them, and we need them to question us in order to have rocks be rocks and people be completely people so that they can free beings.

[10:30]

On another occasion, Fa-yen called his temple director in for some questions. The director's name was Tzu, Director Tzu. So Fa Yan said to the director of the monastery, you've been the director for a while now, years, but you never come into my room and ask me questions about the teaching. and the practice that's what it says in the record but I would amplify by saying you never come into the room and ask me to ask you questions so

[11:45]

what's the reason for not coming to question me and be questioned? And the director said, oh, didn't you know, teacher, that I attained entry into awakening with Master Ching Lin? And again, If I could bracket and say, apparently he thought that his awakening didn't require any further interaction, didn't require being questioned. I'm suggesting that if we're awake, we don't stop being questioned and questioning. We continue the process of dialectical investigation with others. even more so when we're awakened.

[12:47]

But this monk thought he had awakened, had entered awakening, and therefore didn't need to question or be questioned by the master, by the teacher. And Fayan said, I'm... kind of concerned that you might not have understood your teacher properly. Could you recount the occasion? So, Director Tzu said, I went to Qinglin and I said, what is Buddha? And he said, the fire god comes.

[13:51]

The fire god comes looking for fire. And the director said, when I heard that, I had entry into awakening. And Dharma Eyes said, could you tell me a little bit more about that? And the director said, yeah, it's like the fire god lives in the realm of fire and it was still looking for fire. And I was Buddha and I was still looking for Buddha. And Dharmais said, sure enough, you didn't understand.

[15:03]

The director, in one version of the story, it says he contained his anger. And he didn't strike back at the teacher who questioned him, who criticized him. He contained his anger. And left the room, and he also left the monastery. The director left the monastery because he was questioned and criticized by the teacher. He was not mature enough to want that kind of relationship. He was enlightened. I don't need to be questioned anymore now. That's what he thought, I think... And so he left the monastery and off he went to be someplace where nobody would question him and everybody would just adore him for being a great Buddha.

[16:04]

And he wouldn't have to talk to any more Zen masters. However, as he walked, he kind of a thought came in his mind, maybe I'm being a little hasty. After all, he's a well-known teacher and has so many students. Maybe I should give him another chance. So he went back to Dharma eyes and said something like, I'm back. And Dharma eyes said, OK, now you ask me. you asked your former teacher, Ching Lin. So the director said, what is Buddha? And Dharma has said, the fire gods comes looking for fire.

[17:13]

And through this conversation, the director entered awakening. This is an example of the kind of critical conversation that we need to be free of our ideas about ourselves and others. We need these conversations in order to do justice to others. We need to be open to criticism in order to understand others. And being open to criticism and receiving criticism is not necessarily comfortable. And we need to take care of our body and mind so that we can do this difficult work.

[18:22]

So that we can be open. being questioned to be questioned to be called into question to be called in for questioning we must we must take care of ourselves and right now uh we need to take care of ourselves we are having lots and lots of intense experiences we need to take care of ourselves so that we can take care of our relationship with others. And it would be good if we took care of ourselves moment by moment. Many people want to help others right now because they see so many suffering beings.

[19:27]

I want to look after others and help them. And when people say that, if I feel that they're taking good care of themselves, I would say, yeah, go ahead, take care of others. But if they're not taking care of themselves, I might question them. Are you taking care of yourself? I hear you want to take care of others. That's good. But are you ready to take care of others? Do you have your feet on the ground? Are your shoelaces tied together? Do you have your shoes on? Are you ready to go? Do you have water? Do you have a flashlight? If I want to help others, I need to be open to questioning.

[20:42]

Being open to questioning is one of the important ways to take care of myself so that I can take care of others. If I take care of myself, then when I go to take care of others and they say, get away from me, I may be able to accept that. that they don't want me to help them, that they want me to take care of myself, to look at myself before I touch them. Excuse me, but I have a memory of my grandchildren that applies. May I tell you? May I tell you? Some of you have heard this story before, but may I tell you? So, My grandchildren wanted to take care of me. They were little. A boy and a girl. And they wanted to take care of me.

[21:47]

And they were petting my head and patting my cheeks. And then they wanted to put their hands in my mouth. Which was okay with me. That's the way they wanted to relate to me. And I was okay with me. But when they put their hands in my mouth, their hands had a terrible taste. Really, it was just too much for me to, for me to, what? Tolerate. So I said, okay, kids, you know. Okay, kids. take your hands out of my mouth and you can put them back in, but first go wash them. So they went and washed their hands. And then they came back and put their hands in my mouth again. And their hands still didn't taste good.

[22:50]

So I said, wash them again. And they went and washed them again. And then they came back and put their hands in my mouth and their hands tasted clean and Just fine. And they played in my mouth for a little longer and then they moved on to other ways of taking care of me. Last night somebody said they said boundaries but I would say also a boundary is the right distance for us to be with people so we can love them. So we can have a loving relationship. So I offered them a boundary for their hands to be clean so that we could have an intimate relationship. I gave them feedback. I took care of myself so I could take care of them. And they took care of themselves by washing their hands so they could take care of me.

[23:56]

The Buddha way is to take care of... to look after ourselves so we can look after others. And look after others, one looks after oneself. great way is perfect and all-pervading and there's no place it doesn't reach. And that expression could also be the great awakening or also could be the great practice is perfect and all-pervading. But if there's the slightest difference, it's like it's far away.

[25:15]

if there's a slightest difference between you and others, me and others, if there's a slightest difference between me and Buddha, there can be a boundary between me and others. There can be a boundary between me and Buddha. But by engaging that boundary, Intimately, the boundary is an opportunity to realize that the practice is the practice we're doing together. Ian also had a conversation with another teacher, and the other teacher's name was Shushan, which means something like Lord of the Mountain, or Mountain Lord, or Mountain of the Lord.

[27:14]

Anyway, Dharma is said to Shushant. If there's the slightest discrepancy, it's like the distance between heaven and earth. how would you verify this in experience? And Chishan said, if there is the slightest discrepancy, it's like the distance between heaven and earth.

[28:15]

Fa Yan said, you said quite a bit there, but you only got 80%. And Xu Shan said, I'm just like this. How about you? This is how I am. How about you? And Fa Yan said, if there's the slightest discrepancy, it's like the distance between heaven and earth. And the version of that story that I've read, it doesn't say at the end that Shushan attained enlightenment like it sometimes does. I don't think it says that. And I would say the reason it doesn't say that is because Shushan was already awakened.

[29:43]

These are two teachers, two mature bodhisattvas. And mature bodhisattvas keep asking each other questions. Keep interrogating each other. criticizing each other. How would you verify this? How would you show this an experience? You only got 80%, friend. I'm just like this. How about you? These masters are continuing the practice that we do at the beginning of the practice, the middle of the practice, and after the practice. And beyond the practice, endless, critical, investigatory, totally respectful and loving investigation.

[30:53]

Never-ending dialectical enlightenment. Kept questioning. And now, is there the slightest discrepancy? Or how would you verify? The teaching is not that there's no discrepancy. The teaching is, if there is a discrepancy, it makes a big difference. How would you test that? And in testing it, realize that that's an illusion. There is no discrepancy between you being you and you. And yet there can seem to be. And there's not the slightest discrepancy between you and being the person you aspire to be.

[31:57]

There's not the slightest discrepancy between you and the way you would like to serve all beings. There's not the slightest discrepancy. However, the discrepancy can appear. And if it does appear, you can send your hands to the dry cleaners. You can take care of yourself. You can use that discrepancy as a way to love all beings. Because discrepancies do appear. But they don't have to sit there like... unmoving walls, their opportunities for compassionate questioning, compassionate criticism. So let's see.

[33:15]

I said earlier that maybe I would do the closing chat and then start question and answers. But I think right now, if it's okay, I'd just like to go right into welcoming you to criticize me. welcome you to question me. And also, let me know if you want me to question you. Let me know if you are open to receive critiques. And by the way, just to make clear that the word criticism does not mean always negative. To say that it's a good movie is also the job of a critic. Critics can celebrate what they're criticizing. And I think that's really the best way to do it, to celebrate even while you point out shortcomings, to express appreciation even while you question, to express devotion even while you say you doubt.

[34:34]

So... any hair's breadth or bigger than hair's breadth deviations you'd like to discuss, any way you'd like to call me into question, you are welcome to do so. You can also call the Buddha into question, which reminds me of another story, which I'll offer, which is a story that's in the middle-length sayings in the Pali Sutras, the middle-length sayings. It's the fourth sutta. in the Middle East sayings, and it's called Fear and Dread. So in a sense, what this scripture is about is how the Buddha deals, how the Buddha practices, how the Buddha faces and dialogues with fear and dread. And also it's a story about how the Buddha dialogues with a person

[35:40]

person who asks him a question and criticizes him. So in this scripture, somebody's calling the Buddha into account, respectfully. So again, it's called Fear and Dread. And it goes something like this, from memory. So the Buddha was dwelling someplace in India, and a Brahmin named Jhanasoni came to the Buddha and addressed him respectfully and politely. And they had an amicable discussion. And then this Brahmin named Giannisoli sat to one side and asked the Buddha a question. And the question he asked was, Master Gautama, are you like the teacher of... this great assembly?

[36:41]

Are you like an example and a leader and a guide to these people? And the Buddha said, yes, yes, sir, I am. And then the Brahmin Janasoni said, but you, Master Gautama, you go into really dangerous places. You go into the forests. where there are all kinds of poisonous animals and many, many dangers. And so, you know, you're setting an example, a questionable example. Don't you feel great fear? And isn't it difficult to practice meditation under such difficult circumstances? With all this danger and... potential harm all around you? Isn't it difficult to practice meditation? And the Buddha says, well, it was, but now it's not.

[37:58]

Because I learned how to face the face all this dangerous material, and also I learned how to face my fear and dread and horror in the jungle. So my practice was, when I was in the jungle, surrounded by danger, if fear and dread arose and I was walking, I would just continue to walk. and I would continue to walk until the fear and dread subsided. If I was sitting and fear and dread and horror arose all around me, I would continue to sit until it subsided. If I was standing and the fear and dread arose, I would continue standing until everything calmed down.

[39:05]

And if I was reclining, I would continue to recline. In this way, I found peace and joy in this dangerous situation. And I would say, he goes on to talk about how he went through the process of not just calming down, but attaining great wisdom and becoming the Buddha. and becoming a teacher and a benefactor of all beings. So again, by taking care of ourselves in the midst of intense, horrific situation and being present with ourselves and caring for ourselves, we will be able to help others. We will be able to take care of them and help them find similar peace in these situations. We will be able to question them and we'll be able to welcome their questions.

[40:13]

And in this story, this Brahmin person called the Buddha into question respectfully, but did question the Buddha, thinking that Buddha was doing something that was not good for his students. And the Buddha did not say, how dare you question the way I teach and the way I practice. He did not. He responded. He was very responsive and forthcoming to tell the person about his practice that was being questioned. The Buddha way is to practice and be questioned. And in this way, the questioning brought out a whole new teaching from the Buddha. The questioning prompted and facilitated and supported this wonderful teaching, which we might never had if that meant had not questioned him, if that woman had not questioned him, if those people had not questioned him, most of the teachings we had would not be here.

[41:17]

So please question each other. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our programs are made possible by the donations we receive. Please help us to continue to realize and actualize the practice of giving, by offering your financial support. For more information, visit sfzc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[41:53]

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