This podcast is offered by San Francisco's Zen Center on the web at sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning. Good morning. How are you doing? You know, there's a famous Zen saying, every day is a good day. And of course the question is, you know, compared to what? The other good days. But one time, Suzuki Rishi said, every day is a good day. It doesn't mean you can't complain. And which reminds me that I... I've been listening to some, whatever they are, they used to just be CDs, now you get these downloads.

[01:08]

What are those called? Audio. Audio. Yeah, so with Robert Bly, Michael Mead, James Hillman, who used to do these workshops for men up in the woods, you know, in drumming. They never got very good publicity in the mainstream, but it's wonderful work. Oh, but that's not what I need to tell you about right now. But I was listening also to some CDs by a woman named Carla McLaren who wrote a big fat book about the language of emotions. And she says that you can practice conscious complaining as a ceremony. You find a good space. You can have actually a complaining partner. Or you can just have a room or, you know, and complain to the wall or the picture or, you know.

[02:17]

And you might want to light a candle and offer incense or flower petals. And then you say, now I am going to complain. And then you complain. All you want. And Carla McLaren says, you'd be surprised how soon you're finished. And then you say thank you to the wall or the object of the room, space. Thank you for receiving my complaints. This is different than a friend of mine who always used to say, I have no complaints whatsoever. Even if he did, he would say, I have no complaints.

[03:22]

So, you know, which is Zen? We don't know. But Suzuki Rishi said, you can complain, so you might want to make it a ceremony and, you know, official. Coming here today, I realize I have something of a long history, as Wendy mentioned. Thank you, Wendy. My daughter was less than a year old when I moved into the building up above here on the third floor. She's 44 now. And a granddaughter, seven.

[04:24]

So I've been remembering some... you know, some stories about Suzuki Roshi. And I wanted to share them with you. First of all, you know, one of his most famous and most repeated teachings was Zen is to settle the self on the self. You have to have the... Do you understand? This, the head... in the hara, settle your head in the hara. Otherwise, you know, if you're not well-versed with your hara, your head has many ideas. It's what Njogan Senzaki said, you know, when he was towards the end of his life, he said, don't put another head over your head.

[05:27]

Keep your feet warm and your head cool. He was also talking about having your awareness more in your abdomen, in your hara. The hara in other languages is also known as the second chakra sometimes, three finger widths below the navel. And the second chakra in Western psychology is often considered to be the head or the center of your felt sense. What do you feel like doing Not what's the right thing to do. That's your head. Your head knows what's right and what's wrong, and that head is above your head. Your real head knows well enough what to do and what not to do, and it doesn't need to be told. But we like to keep a head above our head that's going to give out the directives and the instructions, what's right and what's wrong.

[06:36]

So when I started thinking about the early days that I was here, I was recalling a sushin that we did with Suzuki Rishi. Oh my. It must have been really early on. It must have been soon after we bought this building because I still remember, you know, before the wood floor was put in downstairs, there was black and white linoleum tiles. In what is now the Zendo, with its beautiful wood floor that, you know, Zen people we know that we put in, the students, Paul Disco and other people. One time Suzuki Roshi, I was talking to Suzuki Roshi, he said, when you are meditating, you sit pretty straight and pretty awake.

[07:52]

But after about 25 or 30 minutes, you start to nod. You're sitting way in the back. I want you to sit right in front of me. So when you nod, I'm going to get up and hit you. I thought I would sit in the back because I didn't want to disturb him. You know, from his meditation, he had important meditation to be doing. So I thought, I'm not worth getting up from the meditation. But I took his instruction and started sitting in front of him. And sure enough, Tap, tap. After about 25 or 30 minutes. Bam, bam. We don't do that anymore.

[08:54]

It's primitive. It's not politically correct to hit people with sticks. So you only can do that if you're Japanese. I don't know. Maybe sometimes it still happens. but it was a different time. You know, uh, I think partly what happened is, um, you know, various things happen, but as long as men were hitting men, that was okay. But when men started hitting women and women started hitting men, can't have that anyway. But, um, So Suzuki Roshi was there for me. So I remember Sashin, we were in downstairs before, when it was the black and white tiles.

[09:57]

Somewhat similar, I think, but I think the altar, as I recall, the front of the room was towards what's now the, is it still the library or bookstore? No, the library there. It's at that end. And there's rows down the, outside in rows in the middle, but there were no dividers. And then there were people sitting out in the hall. 70, 80, 90 people for Sashin. And this would happen occasionally, but often, I think it was the morning, the fifth morning of Sashin, maybe it's traditional. The fifth morning of Sashin, we're just sitting and we're sitting in our regular first period of meditation. And Suzuki Rishi would start talking. And that morning he said, you think I'm the teacher and you're the student and that I will explain things that you don't understand.

[11:06]

That's wrong thinking. You think I have things to tell you that you don't know. That's a wrong, that's a mistake. The teacher is the student. The student is the teacher. Sometimes the teacher bows to the student. Sometimes the student bows to the teacher. And then he went on. And as he would do on these occasions, at some point he leapt to his feet with his little stick. And he went to the first person in the row. Somehow I have visualized this happening. I can see him. Even though, of course, I was sitting facing the wall, wherever I was sitting. But you could hear the sound.

[12:10]

And in a big voice he said, Who is the teacher? And if you felt the stick, you know, you'd bow and then you'd go, bam, bam. And then the next student, who is the student? Bam, bam. Who is the teacher? Bam, bam. Who is the student? Bam, bam. After five or six people, he stopped asking each person. But then continued all around the zendo, hitting each person twice. You know, you'd bow and he'd hit you on one shoulder. Tap, tap. Bam, bam. It was so quick. You couldn't anticipate it. And you know, the world, reality would disappear. And they would, sometimes you'd think like, wasn't I just sitting in a zendo or something? Like, what, what, what, what? And then pretty soon, time and space and everything would come back. That's primitive to have that kind of experience.

[13:14]

uncalled for it's politically incorrect stay with the program do you understand that's what we hear you know follow the schedule but when he said that's a wrong idea I thought if I'm if I need if I'm supposed to be the teacher we're in trouble So who are you? You know, the teacher, the student. One time at Tassajara, This is probably before this.

[14:21]

Sashin here that I was at. Sashin was probably 1970. But one time at Tasara we were having tea with Roshi and he, we start out very quietly. Somebody pours the tea and everybody has their cup and we bow and then you pick up your cup and have a sip of tea and you might have a cookie. And at some point, Roshi might talk or he might just say, does anybody have any questions? And right away, one of the students, Roshi, why haven't you enlightened me yet? Who is the teacher, who is the student? Who's asking who? And Suzuki Rishi said, I'm making my best effort.

[15:34]

And of course he didn't say, and how about you? What, are you just busy complaining? Is that all you want to do? And if that's the way you're going to talk to me, you know, is that any way to make space in you for me to be there with you? Anyway, he talked some more. I don't remember what he said after he said, I'm making my best effort. But you know, sometimes we are critical with ourself. Why didn't you do this or you should have that? Or you might wonder to yourself, why haven't I gotten enlightened yet? And if you listen carefully, you'll hear, I'm making my best effort. Sometimes, you know, you might have the idea to, for your eyes or your ears or your mind or your intelligence or your emotions, like, can't you...

[16:44]

Give me some better experience than this? And then you'll hear, I'm making my best effort. We're all very sweet, sincere people inside. You know, we're sweethearts. And we wonder, like, why doesn't the world notice? How come they're talking to me like, you know, I'm some less than worthy person. Why can't they see me? So I want to tell you about another time at Gringotts and was a whole period, you know, where Richard Baker Roshi was abbot of the Zen Center after Suzuki Roshi.

[17:47]

And then he wasn't. Another, but anyway, Katagari Roshi was the interim abbot for a while after Richard Baker. And at one point I was the Tonto at Gringotts. I'm always, I have, you know, I've had various standings and roles and, you know, somehow I've always managed to go back down and out and under and descent and ashes and kitchen work. And not, I've never been able to stay. So I was Tanto at Gringotts and Kartagiri Roshi came to visit and we had tea with Kartagiri Roshi.

[19:00]

And he said, we had tea and we sip our tea and then after a bit he says, does anybody have any questions? Often that first question is the big one for the day. So then he said, so somebody said, Roshi, what do we do when there's no teacher around? Like Richard Baker was a real teacher and Ed Brown, who's the Tonto, the head of practice, is kind of a nothing you know. Not a real teacher. Who is the teacher? Who is the student? And Karagiri Rishi said, please keep a warm spot in your heart. If there's no teacher, please keep a warm spot in your heart for the teacher.

[20:08]

who is the student who is the teacher is there a warm spot the warm spot is the place in your heart that can receive teaching the place that's open in your heart and of course a lot of times you know we've for various reasons and You know, we've learned to keep our heart closed. You know, just the most basic, you know, one of the most basic psychological truths, if it happened then, it could happen now. So we've all been wounded by various experiences in life. So you want to protect yourself, so you close your heart. And how are you going to open it again? Who or what can you trust? Well, anyway, a warm spot. Keep a warm spot in your heart.

[21:20]

It's all very mysterious. You know, later Michael Wenger and I were walking with Kadagiroshi back to the guest house at Green Gulch. And when we got to the door of his room at the guest house, I said to Kadagiroshi, Roshi, excuse me, but since there's no teacher around, what do I call myself? And he said in his deadpan manner, a teacher. But if you're going to call yourself a teacher, you should know how to be a student. And if you're going to call yourself a student, you should know how to share teaching. Or study, you know.

[22:47]

This, of course, reminds me of Suzuki Roshi asking, what is the most important point? You should find out, he said, what is the most important point? A new study. And, of course, classically in Zen, you know, it doesn't come from outside. Most important point is not something you hear from The most important point is your truth, the self on the self, and what does it have to say? What does it have to long for? What are you doing here in this, what Mary Oliver calls this one wild and precious life? What are you doing? What will you do with your one wild and precious life? So now is where we get to the audio downloads.

[24:04]

And Bly, Mead, Hillman. And at one point, Michael Mead says, quotes Albert Camus, who was, of course, one of the foremost existentialists in the 20th century. It all seems so long ago now, doesn't it? Who? They're people I grew up with. Excuse me. When I was in high school, I was a wannabe existentialist. And then I found Zen and I was close enough. Let's just sit and do nothing. Let's just Anyway, and Camus said, a person's work is nothing more than to rediscover through the detours of art those one or two images in the presence of which your heart first opened.

[25:29]

A person's work is nothing more than to rediscover through the detours of art those one or two images in the presence of which your heart first opened. Sometimes we think, you know, that I could go forward to have, you know, that enlightenment is in the future. Or some awakening is ahead of us. And usually we think, if I do, the required steps I will get to this future. It's what of course we called, and Suzuki Rishi called, step ladders then. I've gotten this far, now how do I get up to the next rung? And of course at some point you might find your ladders on the wrong wall. I forget who said that, but. Oh, Joseph Campbell.

[26:36]

Yeah. So, anyway. But on the other hand, you see, through our life, we're the rediscover through, you know, and art is not just art, but art is, you know, your wider intelligence. Your soul. How the world speaks to you. And that awakening was something that always happened. Because, of course, it's who you are. It's not an event. It's who you are. But we're busy being who we think we are, not who we are. So how do we rediscover who we are? more fundamentally are.

[27:41]

So Camus suggests rediscovering through the detours of art. But sometimes, of course, it's through the detours of cooking or raising a child, being a parent, you know, working the world, walking down the street. So I have a poem for you by William Stafford. called Any Morning. William Stafford was friends with Robert Bly and the most famous story of William Stafford was, I think he was, you know, Steve Stuckey, was he Mennonite? You know, he grew up in, and William Stafford, anyway, similarly grew up in Oklahoma or Kansas or somewhere. And he was a conscientious objector in World War II. There weren't very many. And at the CO camp, he started writing poetry.

[28:44]

And later, at one point, he decided to have a practice of writing a poem every day. So one time, someone came to interview and said, Mr. Stafford, you know, your friend Robert Bly says you have a practice of writing a poem every day. And Stafford said, yes, I do. He said, yeah, I get up in the morning before the children, and I work on my poem, and I have a little shelf. I have to get the kids up and get them breakfast, get them off to school. If I have time during the day, I take down my poem, and if I can't finish it sooner, I finish at night before I go to sleep. And the interviewer said, Mr. Stafford, excuse me, but how can you write a poem every day? How could you be that inspired? You know, and creative day in and day out, day after day after day. And he said, I lower my standards. So this poem by William Stafford fits in with this understanding.

[30:00]

It's called Any Morning. just lying on the couch and being happy. Only humming a little in the head, the quiet sound. Only humming a little, the quiet sound in the head. Trouble is busy elsewhere at the moment. It has so much to do in the world. People who might judge are mostly asleep. They can't monitor you all the time. And sometimes they forget. When dawn flows over the hedge, you can get up and act

[31:06]

Busy. Little corners like this, pieces of heaven left lying around, can be picked up and saved. People won't even see you have them. They're so light and easy to hide. Later in the day, you can act. like the others. You can shake your head. You can frown. You can practice conscious complaining. That's not like the others. They do it more unconsciously. Do you want the poem again? I'll see if I can remember it twice.

[32:08]

Just lying on the couch and being happy. Before I do this again, I want to just tell you one brief story. I recited this poem yesterday on the phone to a friend. He said, what are you up to? And I said, I'm... working on memorizing this poem. And then she said, when I was all done, why would you want to hide those moments? And then I stared into the riff of, are you kidding? When there's so much suffering in the world, what do you have to be happy? Don't you need to take care of all that pain and suffering and trouble in the world before you can be happy and smile a little bit? Don't you need to solve everything first? That's what you might hear. So this is why you might just hide Little pieces. Anyway, just lying on the couch and being happy. Only humming a little, the quiet sound in the head.

[33:18]

Trouble is busy elsewhere. Trouble is busy elsewhere. It has so much to do in the world. People who judge are mostly asleep. They can't monitor you all the time and sometimes they forget. When dawn flows over the hedge, you can get up and act busy. Or maybe you get up and act like a sense student. That's good. And little corners like this Pieces of heaven left lying around can be picked up and saved. People won't even see you have them. They're so light and easy to hide. Later in the day, you can act like the others.

[34:24]

You can shake your head. You can frown. Pieces of heaven like this are left lying around. Is there a soft spot in your heart to receive this teaching? How am I doing? Should I stop? Can you talk another few minutes? Thank you, sir. I just wanted to say briefly, you know, in the mythological world, you know, especially for men, if you're a man, you know, and in the mythological world, you know, you're aiming not so much who is the student, who is the teacher, but who is the, how do you become king?

[35:31]

And you are the subject, and maybe sometimes you are invited into the palace. But this is related in a way to the teacher. Who is the student, who is the teacher? And what Robert Bly suggests is, and I'll change it from the metaphor of king to the metaphor of teacher. Is there such a thing in your psyche? Is there any space? So Bly suggests you might need to do some remodeling If you think, for instance, of your father, where a culture implies vision of fatherless. There's not very many models of mature men. And when there's not mature men, then you follow some fictitious Twitter person.

[36:44]

He didn't say that because he was in a different era. It was quail and bush at that time. So he said, if you think of your father, you know, and then, you know, most of us, when we think of our father, well, he wasn't there for me. Or he was there and he, you know, was mean. He hit me and, you know, he didn't, you know, do things with me. He didn't care for me. Literally, you know, half the households in America now have no father. Literally. And then the fathers, when they are there, they aren't there or they're not very good at relating. So usually if we think of our father, we think, and then, you know, you don't even want to go in the room. You go in the room and there's rats scurrying around and it's not a nice place to go. So if you even want your father to hang out with you, you know, you might need to remodel.

[37:51]

And then if you want a teacher, you might need to really create some space inside. So part of, you know, meditation is making space. Remodeling. If you're just busy... So, you know, we make space in various ways. If you're just busy, though, doing what you should, what you think is the program, you follow it. You know, Zen, I've studied a lot of Vipassana for many years, too, and in Vipassana, they tell you how to meditate. They tell you what to do in meditation. Practice noting As you breathe in, you note in. As you breathe out, you note out. Do you understand? And then you note other things as they arise and become the predominant objects of experience.

[38:55]

And in Zen, people say, oh, in Zen there's so many forms. Oh, it's so uncomfortable, there's so many forms. But actually, we don't tell you how to meditate. sit like this. And as Suzuki Rishi said in one of his lectures, I gave some meditation instructions to the Sunday school children, and they all said, and they could cross their legs, you know, full lotus, and then they said, and then what? And he said, you might have the same question. And then what? So will you be busy with something? Do you have a program? Do you have a, what should you be doing while you meditate?

[40:01]

So actually Zen is, you know, we don't necessarily, aren't necessarily busy doing anything and you're making space, you create space. But you also make space by having Asking what is the most important point? What is it? Just this is. So very interesting how to make space in your psyche. or something that is other that you might receive. I was reminded of this at one point in the last eight or 10 years. I took some energy classes with a wonderful woman in Berkeley, Linda Cesara.

[41:07]

We meet one day a month from nine to five. And she said, we're in class all the time We meet one day a month. That sounds like Zen, doesn't it? And one day I was quite upset and anxious and scared. And she notices these things. Ed, how are you doing? And I said, well, I'm scared, I'm anxious. And she said, come and sit here. And she sat in class, she would sit in class on one of those big round balls that bounce up and down. She's bouncing up and down on her ball. And then you could sit in front of her and then you could put your head on her knee. And so I did that. And I still was having trouble breathing.

[42:14]

Do you know sometimes if you're anxious, you can hardly breathe. You're so scared. So she goes on with the class, but after about a minute, she says, excuse me, Ed, how are you doing? And I said, well, I'm still scared. I'm still, I'm terrified. And she said, well, I want to remind you that help is available. Comfort is available. But you'll need to be willing to receive it. So of course you're welcome to go on being terrified and anxious. Not a problem. But if you'd like to receive, but you might want to Take, you know, just some part, maybe even just five or 10% of your awareness and extend it out for the comfort that's available.

[43:18]

This is like making space in your psyche, in your fixed world, in your habitual world. which some people call the trance of everyday life. How do you shift from the trance, the trance of everyday reality that you're in? How will you do that? So I started just like, okay, I'm gonna try, I'll stick out just a little bit of my awareness. And son of a gun, but something so delicious started happening. extended more and more of my awareness and pretty soon, and then it was like, oh my goodness, I'm in a whole different reality. Now maybe this isn't just any place, maybe this is only in the presence of Ms. Cesara. But, you know, it's more or less anywhere. Kanze on, namu butsu, yo butsu, and yo butsu and butsu.

[44:27]

Homage to the perfection of wisdom. And then pretty soon I was so calm and peaceful and happy. You make space. You extend your awareness. You don't just stay. But if you want to stay there, do some conscious complaining. All right. I have one last thing to say and then we can get up and stretch our legs and go do something else for the day. So I wanted to remind you of a... This is just a fragment of a Rumi poem. This we have now. Do you know that poem? So simple, so good. This we have now is not imagination. This is not a joy. This is not a grief or a joy. Not a judging state or an elation or sadness. Those come and go.

[45:32]

This is the presence that doesn't. This is the presence that doesn't. You know, we talk in Zen a lot about emptiness, but of course, there are some Tibetan schools that they argue about. Is that emptiness empty, or does that emptiness have presence? And neither school has been able to defeat the other intellectually. So those who say emptiness is empty, completely empty, and others who say emptiness has presence. So I'm in the emptiness has presence school, as you might guess. So this is the presence that doesn't come, doesn't go, doesn't... is not tainted, is not pure, does not increase, does not decrease.

[46:39]

Thank you so much for your presence today. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma For more information, please visit sfcc.org and click Giving. May we all fully enjoy the Dharma.

[47:07]

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