This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening. Thank you all for being here. Such a full house and an illustrious group. My name's Kristen, Kristen Diggs. For those of you who don't know me, I have been living here at Tassajara this time around since early January. And I was doing the math, been in residence at San Francisco Zen Center at the three different centers for about nine and a half out of the last 11 and a half years. And I will be leaving again shortly, in a couple of days. So I'm really grateful to have this opportunity to meet with all of you like this.

[01:07]

Thank you so much to our Tonto, Heather, for inviting me. I'm going to slow down a bit so that I can be present with you. I was thinking... looking around to see how many folks may be here who are completely new to Zen Buddhism. Can I see just a show of hands? Okay, quite a few. I'd like to invite you to imagine that you're at a poetry reading. And I used to go to a lot of poetry readings when I was younger. And I remember, you know, it was a combination of poems and personal stories and sometimes a little bit of talking about the art of writing and this quality of receptivity at poetry readings.

[02:13]

That's what I wish for you tonight, especially those of you who are new to Zen, for whom some of what I say may seem a bit abstract. So please bathe in it as though you were at a poetry reading. even though I won't be reading any poems tonight. I may not, because I'm slowing down, get through this entire talk, which may be just as well. You know, I really prepared for you so much so that shortly before the talk I thought, I'm kind of over it. So... I'm slowing down which means I may not get through the entire talk and it may seem to end abruptly but it's okay because the punchline is at the beginning. Tonight I will be talking about intimacy as it is understood and pointed to in the Zen tradition as different than

[03:23]

how it is understood in most modern mainstream Western contexts, which I think have a more of a psychological understanding of intimacy. And I'd like to begin with this great matter, Chan Kwan. The Han, the wooden block just outside this window, which calls us to the Zendo. I was thinking... it is often calligraphed at traditional soto Zen temples with the words, great is the matter. And in traditional Zen koans, the great matter is also the primary concern. So the koan that I'll begin with tonight is a conversation, a terse conversation, like a short and to the point between a teacher and a student, as is often the case in Koan literature.

[04:28]

But it's not just any conversation, it's a concentrated encounter regarding the great matter. And sometimes this encounter is between a teacher and a student, sometimes between fellow practitioners, sometimes quite advanced practitioners who are probing, testing, playing. This koan is a conversation between Zen master Tonggan, in Chinese, or Douankanshi, Daio Shou, and Liangshan, or Ryozan Engkan, in Japanese, Daio Shou. These are two of the Chinese Zen ancestors whose names we chant in the morning. during our service. Two of the Daio Shos. Daio Shou means great teacher or great priest sometimes.

[05:32]

But in this koan, Tong Gan is the master and Liang Shan is not yet a great teacher. He's the disciple. Master Tong Gan says to his student, asks him, what is the business beneath the patch robe? This is the patch robe, for those of you who are new to Zen, the Okesa or the square Raksu. I've often wondered, how did he say it exactly? Did he say, what is the matter beneath the patch robe? Or did he say, what is the matter beneath the patch robe? Or did he just say, What's the matter beneath the pesh robe? In any case, Liangshan did not have an answer. So Thonggan said, studying the Buddha way and still not reaching this realm is the most painful thing.

[06:41]

Now, you ask me, he said. So Liangshan said, what is the business beneath the past robe." And Master Tongan said, Intimacy. As is often the case at the end of these encounters, the student, in this case Liangshan, is greatly awakened by the encounter. You know, in this case, when I imagined it, I thought, yeah, I can see that. Oftentimes, however, at the end of one of these koan stories where it says, then the student was greatly awakened, I'm sort of like, really? So those of you who are completely new to Zen, I'm assuming may not know who Dogen is. Dogen is the founder of Soto Zen Buddhism in Japan.

[07:49]

Ah. 13th century Japan. He was born in 1200. And the lineage that we practice in at San Francisco Zen Center, the lineage of its founder, Shinryu Suzuki Roshi, is Soto Zen Buddhism. So here at Tassahara we are practicing in the Soto School. Dogen compiled a selection of 300 koans from the Chinese Zen literature. It's his, I think, lesser-known Shobogenzo. In English, Treasury of the True Dharma Eye. In the English translation, which was translated by Kaz Tanahashi and John Daido Luri,

[08:50]

The word intimate or intimacy appears more than 100 times. And you can figure these things out now when you have electronic copies, if you're curious. Granted, most of those instances were in the commentaries written by Daido Luri Roshi. And I don't know the Chinese word for intimacy. One other fact, in the English translation of Dogen's extensive record, or , the word intimate, or intimacy, or the Japanese character that was used, was used by Dogen himself quite a number of times. And I'm telling you this just to impress upon you the significance of this intimacy in the Zen school.

[09:53]

There's a Japanese word that Dogen used for intimate words. I'm not sure the accent is on this word, so please excuse me if I mispronounce it. And if anyone knows, I would be happy for you to just blurt it out. But it is mitsugo. These are words that are used to point directly to the truth, the ultimate truth, one's essential nature or the way things actually are. Intimate words are words whose meanings are intuited rather than intellectually figured out. through some rational method of reasoning. Intuition is very closely related to the body, to sensing and feeling, more so than mere intellectual reasoning.

[11:07]

It is more inclusive and more direct. Sometimes intimate words are referred to as turning words or turning phrases that cut through delusion and enable the hearer to see directly, to see through hearing things as it is in an instant. our, I think, usual discursive mode of thinking and relating creates these conceptual gaps in the instant of speaking, hearing, and seeing, like a conceptual gap between what in Zen we call the giver, the receiver, and the gift.

[12:23]

And When that happens, I hear the words and then I think about them. I might linger and repeat them to myself with some variation in an effort to figure out their conceptual meaning. And when that happens, then I have missed it. I've missed the intimacy. For beginners like myself, it's really hard to maintain this wakefulness within intimacy, which I think of as a non-dualistic, non-objectifying, kind of non-separative consciousness. To exaggerate it a bit,

[13:31]

There is the encounter and the intimacy. And then intimacy. You know, probably not in such, you know, quick succession. But this falling asleep, figuratively speaking, is, you know, it can be discursive thinking. It can be zoning out. It's not literally falling asleep, though that is also possible. It's lapsing into a kind of dualistic consciousness. And dualistic consciousness, as we all know, can look many ways. It can look highly intelligent, you know, cool, calm, collected. Or it can look agitated, you know. busy, frantic.

[14:36]

It can look very humble or very pious. It can look like good Zen. In one of Suzuki Roshi's transcribed lectures he referred to a particular kind of manifestation of this delusional state as quote, looks like good Zen, unquote. And I think many of us in this room have been practicing some time, have seen it on many occasions or smelled it, that Zen stink, as the expression goes. Is it me? Stinks like good Zen. As I was saying, in my experience it's rather difficult and also I think disincentivized.

[15:42]

Is that a word? Disincentivized? Thank you. In mainstream culture to really explore this kind of consciousness, to attune oneself to this business beneath the patch robe. Because it's so... non-transactional, it's non-judgmental, unbounded, present-centered as different than past and present thinking oriented. And so it's apparently, to quote Uchiyama Roshi, good for nothing. He did say, unless you know that zazen is good for nothing. It will really be good for nothing." Interesting.

[16:44]

So this intimacy, it's quiet and it's subtle in the mind so deeply conditioned by object consciousness. It's easy to miss. I thought when all of our habitual, incessant, cognitive problematizing is resolved, what are we going to do with ourselves? How will we engage? I mean, if you really stop and think about it, what is the impetus in your life often? How will we know that we exist distinctly from others if everything is resolved into unity?

[18:09]

This is the thinking mind's concern. Most of us need some friction. I mean, I think we need to be honest with ourselves about this. We kind of thrive on separation, apparent irreconcilable differences, even outright conflict is exciting. If all of this resolves and there's no rub, then the jig is up. Of course, it's not that simple. But how many of us can really stand that quiet peace for long, let alone all the time?

[19:13]

There are dimensions of our psyche that are really not on board. Maybe some of you are wondering, what is she talking about? Others may be thinking, well, she's not talking about me because, you know, I want nothing more than the end to all of these painful delusions, the unnecessary strife that my mind is generating. I don't like conflict or division. You know, I love harmony and peace. I'm not really competitive and I don't have any enemies, even during bocce ball tournaments, even while reading the news. So you get my drift. We are all included.

[20:16]

in the madness, steeped deeply, you know, as we are conditioned by dualistic perceptions and delusional thinking. It's not all dark. It's rather quotidian. And this object consciousness, it functions according to smell, taste, touch, sight, sound. I was out listening. So many sounds here in the valley, natural, you might call them. I hear it now, the birds. And I think, that was a bird, not a squirrel. It was a stellar jay. not a canyon wren.

[21:20]

I had the experience of sitting with someone, I won't say who, a very mature practitioner. We were sitting at a bench and this beautiful bird alighted, bright yellow with red and so rare to see it so close up. And as soon as I saw it, she said, what is the name of that bird? I saw one last year, not so close up. It's on the tip of my tongue. That bird was gone. So it's this, how readily we go into this mode of thinking that really distances us from the immediacy of our lives.

[22:32]

What I really want to emphasize tonight is just waking up from that kind of habitual, separative consciousness again and again, as our practice realization in this tradition. Granted, dualistic thinking has its function, it has its place, it has its uses in conventional reality, but if we don't keep waking up to its limitations, we suffer greatly. and also cause others a great deal of suffering because we believe the division that we think like it's out there. We see this everywhere in our world and how violent and destructive it becomes. So to wake up from this deeply conditioned habit of mind I think is the great matter.

[23:44]

I'd like to share another koan from Dogen's Treasury of the True Dharma Eye. Bo Shui Ben Ren said to the assembly, normally we don't confuse descendants by talking about what is before sound. In Zen we have another koan, what is your face before your parents were born? before sound. Normally, we don't confuse descendants by talking about what is before sound and after a phrase. Why is this so? Sound is not sound. Form is not form. A student asked, What is sound that is not sound? Boshui said, Can you call it form?

[24:48]

The student asked, What is form that is not form? Bo Shui said, Can you call it sound? The student could not say another word. He lost his rational footing. Bo Shui said, Let me say that if you understand this, I will approve that you have entered the place. The place. In the first koan, the place is referred to as this realm. Let's look back. I can find it. When Tongan says to study the Buddha way and not reach this realm, So this realm beneath the patch robe, beneath names and forms. Commentary.

[25:53]

In the teachings of the way, the phrase, a transmission outside of words and letters, is commonly misunderstood as a negation of the expression of sounds in communicating the Dharma. Here, Master Bhoshwi points to the truth that precedes sound and to the intuitive perception that follows a phrase. In the Buddha Dharma, this is called intimate talk, expression that can be recognized and understood even though it has no sound. However, we should appreciate that although there is no sound, it cannot be called silent. For this is not a matter that exists in the realm of yin and yang. In the realm of opposites. So here's this intimacy appearing again.

[27:05]

I heard that Simon Moy spoke recently about the intimacy of not knowing. I'm sorry I missed that talk. That's another... I think he referred to Fayan's not knowing koan, the punchline is not knowing is most intimate. In one of Dogen's Dharma Hall discourses he said, if someone were to ask me, why do we not know that there is a place of great intimacy, I would just hit his face with my whisk and ask him, is this knowing or not knowing? And if he tried to answer, I would hit him again with the whisk. When I wake up,

[28:08]

to within this intimacy over and over again, I also clarify how much suffering my delusional estrangement from this intimacy has been causing. Fortunately, the mind gaps are unreal. If they were real, we could not close them in an instant. If they were real, we couldn't wake up from our illusory, from their illusory existence and realize freedom from their suffering. Despite all the words tonight, I will say that the intimacy that I'm talking about, referring to, and that I understand to be referred to in these koan teachings is too close for thinking to see.

[29:16]

It is what is most near. These words, another's words, the koan stories, are not it. that which comes from outside is not it. And yet, nothing is outside of this intimacy. I'll end with a short capping phrase. When reason is exhausted and words and ideas forgotten, What is it that remains for comparison? When the fruit is truly ripe, it leaves the tree of its own accord.

[30:27]

We have a few minutes. If anyone would like to ask any questions or express yourself in any way, I welcome you. It seems to me that you're At some points, you were admonishing conflict and suffering and desire for retention. And I do share this kind of antipathy. Well, I don't know that that's actually what you were doing, but I had a sense that you had some dislike of it or admonishment for it anyway. Maybe I should pause there.

[31:46]

I don't know if that was your intention, but that brought up a lot for me. I kind of want to say any more because I'm not sure that that was your intention or not. I don't think admonishing is correct. I think I'm pointing out the irony and just the reality, my sense of the reality of what you're calling this antipathy and how important I think it is for us to look at it. as serious practitioners, to be honest with ourselves about what's happening inside. In that case, the irony is yours and the projection of antipathy is mine, I would say. But I would say, and maybe I'm alone in this, I don't feel that that irony is lost on me And yet, and I feel that as a practitioner for, I don't know, 15 years or something, I've spent a lot of time attempting to observe that irony.

[32:57]

And I've actually found that it's not, I just want to share my own experience, which may not be the same for others, of course, but it's just that I haven't found it very productive, actually, in the end. I mean, I may change my mind in the future, but lately it seems to me there's a different coaching point, so to speak, that's helpful for me, which is more... The irony itself strikes me as quite dualistic and non-intimate, in a way. Right? And I'm not saying looking at conflict is different than looking at intense feelings in my body or emotions that I may have in the midst of a conflict. The latter seemed to me to be less dualistic than what I'm experiencing as the former, which, again, may be my own projection or whatever.

[34:03]

But I don't know if you had any thoughts, reflections, I'm not entirely sure that I'm following what you're saying is more helpful to you, but I do appreciate that there are times when practicing in a particular way is, there are diminishing returns and we need to take another approach. For myself, I feel a kind of sometimes a healthy shame when I notice these whole areas that I'm not considering, that my practice, my mind, my eye of practice is not examining. And so there's, for me, there's some part of what makes it perhaps not so unhelpful is there's some humor in it. The irony, I also feel, it's like, oh, this is so human, so...

[35:05]

I don't feel always so hard on myself when I notice these things. The presence of humor suggests, to me anyway, a lack of shame. And in my experience, I actually would say that I feel quite over the idea of shame at the moment of the last couple of years of practice. I mean, there are things to be ashamed about, I mean, in general. That's good. But in general, I don't think shame on how this particularly depends on the matter of campus. But I carry a lot of chronic shame, actually, due to relational trauma. And I found that looking at shame over what I thought of as healthy shame is actually not very healthy at all. And I actually feel very skeptical about shame in general. Like, actually, it goes so far as to say.

[36:08]

And again, I would say it seems to me that humor suggests a break in the shame, actually, a relief to the shame, a balm for the shame. Forgive me for calling me so much at length. It just really brought up a lot for me. Thank you for sharing that. I'm going to look at the time. If there's a 30-second question or comment, I can take it. Otherwise, I think, Amy. Where you go, will there be intimacy? Intimacy is here. and it will be here when I go there. Miss you too.

[37:11]

Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click giving.

[37:32]

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