Good morning. So here's the literal translation of today's lens. Grass, matter, fundamental is confusion. Agree with reason, also not realization. once reading an article. The article was written about when you take a course or get involved in some kind of intensive training. And the author talked about the crisis of initiation, the crisis of getting involved, of giving over to something, of letting yourself be part of the intensity of whatever it is you're engaging. Then there's the crisis of being in the middle of it.

[01:03]

You're in the middle of something. The security of what came before or the comfort of what's coming after. You're just there in the middle, challenged by it thoroughly and completely. And then there's the crisis of exodus. Now what has come to be is coming to an end and something new is going to happen and we've got to adjust it. One way we can think about the crisis of the middle hole is that as we settle into the intensive, it starts to have a kind of palpable quality to it. sense of involvement and engagement. And then you start to notice yourself involved in more of an individual experience.

[02:13]

Either it's just the product of your mind rambling or something pressing comes up, something urgent in terms of your own psychology, emotions, or life's karma. then you requested to come back to this more interconnected, shared existence. Some way a being that we've all agreed to be part of. The merging of connectedness and separateness. And part of that's even just in our own mental state. of the mental state where we're immersed in more individual experience of reality in contrast to we feel more connected to the space we're in and the people we're sitting together with. Part of the yoga of reconnecting is a ritual.

[03:29]

The ritual of The chant, the before-class chant. It's like it's meant to kind of draw us into a place of connection. Oh yeah, right. That's what we're doing here. Put us in the middle of something. And then something similar goes on. And then so then we just pepper our day with ritual, all sorts of little rituals. You know, one way I'd think about bringing a cup of tea or coffee to lecture, or just the way in which in Zazen,

[04:29]

have the need, the impulse to move back into our more individual thinking and feeling is that it's difficult to be part of everything. It's difficult to not have some say in how our needs are going to be met. It's a risky proposition. It's not about obliterating this individuation. It's about letting it find a conscious harmony within your being. And really, that's the challenge of Zazen.

[05:31]

It's not about obliterating thought. or the world according to me it's by letting it harmonize with a bigger sense of being and then the consequence of that is that rather than it just simply being distraction defilement affliction that it starts to become teaching. So the next, you know, we can think. So the first couple of lines lay out this proposition. Human existence can be held in Buddha mind. The mind of the great sage of India

[06:33]

intimately transmitted and even though human faculties are sharp or dull it isn't like some people can do it and some people can't do it it's like every human mind can be held with this Buddha mind this Buddha mind can illuminate any human condition different qualities about it. One part of it becomes apparent, direct. It's about engaging the here and now. And then in another way, it goes beyond all the manipulations or strategies or even understandings you can try to contain. So those two covenants are like preparedness for practice.

[07:43]

Can you get that? Can you really let that sink in? Can you let the implications of that direct your effort in practice? And then with that, it's like, okay, well then let's go into a level of detail about what actually goes on for us in our human heart. Let's look at the proposition of practice. Let's look at this proposition of individuating and opening up to bigger beings. And then it says, grasping at things is surely delusion. According with sameness is still not enlightening. In some ways we can think of the trikaya, the lanakaya, the samodhikaya and the dharmakaya as three levels.

[08:57]

Really maybe it's better to think of them as three modalities of experiencing. So our thoughts, our feelings come up. we were talking in a previous class, you know, you can touch them. When you're grounded in the body, the grab, the open mind, open, non-grasping disposition of mind, they just come up. And they're like the sign of a fire engine. It has its own distinct Maybe it has its own pleasant or harsh quality. Maybe it gives rise to associated thoughts. If there it is, it's just like a flower. It perfumes experience in whatever way it does in that moment.

[10:03]

It comes up, it goes away. In a way it supports presence. It's part of presence and it supports presence. You can grasp it. And then interesting thing happens. It's kind of like a shift from what's being presented to what I have to say and what I feel about it and conclusions I draw from what I have to say and what I feel. And that's the rest of it. And then that becomes the main event. And then the more we grasp it, the more it makes sense to grasp it. Yeah, that's right. The world is a dangerous place. There's fire engines going all over the place. Who knows what's on fire now.

[11:07]

And then that grasping turns into a temporary experience a temporary involvement, kind of indicative of some lifelong habit that we created. So this is who I am. Whenever I hear fire engines, I some permanent unchanging self that's obliged to behave in a certain way in response to the side environment. And in some ways that permanent self

[12:11]

with all the amazing features of its personality and psychology, is our best effort at living the life we have. This is our best shot at it. Something in me says, it really is appropriate to hate fire engines. So when the Dharma presents us with the teaching, grasping at things is basically delusion. It's like there's a conflict. When the Dharma shines a light on it, we go, yeah, of course, I get it. I think I've always known that. With this subconscious flow of a life force, which is expressing its best efforts of being alike.

[13:14]

It's a more delicate proposition, so it's almost like it's in contradiction. You're asking me to cling to the very things that I know support my life. So we since then, practicing, not grasping, And constantly this karmic force keeps coming up saying, grasp. Are you crazy? Grasp. You're going to be in trouble if you don't grasp. Come on, get with it. I have to tell you, fantasize what's great, a more pleasant experience than this one. Bring up some aversion. There's a lot of danger around here.

[14:18]

How do we harmonize that? How do we harmonize this sincere part of this that just reads it and goes, yes, something in me has always known that as so. Grasping things is surely delusion. And some mysterious art that just keeps... How do we bring... So when we sit, what do we do? Hate ourselves for being the person we are? And each time we grasp So when these two are in conflict, we experience all sorts of things.

[15:21]

We experience anguish. We experience some deep sense of unsettledness. It's like rather than practice bringing harmony, it's more like it's this deep This one, it's agitating, it's annoying, it's creating a kind of existential unsettledness. And interestingly enough, for most of us going deeper in practice asks us to kind of discover how to have some tolerance for that. And that creates its own kind of heat that allows us to start to discover, OK, how can I be this one with all its marvelous, mysterious ways of being in existence?

[16:31]

And how to open up some greater sense of being that allows this one to be nurtured and guided by all existence. And in a way you could say that greater sense of being is a request of practice. And you could say, sign me up. works for me. I'm up for not suffering so much. I'm up for releasing some of my existential anxiety. I'm up for not being so utterly confused and divisive even in my own thoughts and feelings. But then the second one says, according to the principle, agreeing with it, aligning with it,

[17:33]

is still not realization so in the realm of the Dharmakaya these are things there is this thing called delusion and there is a thing called realization in the realm of the Sambhogakaya it starts to become these are all modes of interaction to pay attention, we start to see that Zazen is this amazing dynamic. You bring forth this intention of presence. You add to it a technique or techniques that enable it. And then in the midst of that, the capacity to stay with that technique, the capacity to

[18:38]

imbued with authority, the capacity to energize it with attention and contact. They're in a dynamic relationship with other urgency and impulses and agendas that arise. And Sambhogakaya is saying, yep, there it is. And it generates Notions, conclusions, fixed ideas, identities, this, that, here, there, now, then, right, wrong, out, done, yes. And in the Sambhogakaya, it becomes a dynamic interaction. And then these two lines take on a different connotation. into a real thing is not it.

[19:45]

Time to say, oh, it's all illusion. Oh, it's all, you know, an interplay of qi. That misses it too, because these two are always in some energetic relationship. The challenge is to get in touch. The challenge is to stay present enough and watch for all this go on. And even more than that, to not simply watch it, but to experience it quite literally. To not be separate from it. And usually when we sit, when we do extended sittings, we have our moments of immersion. Sometimes it feels like we're just in this ocean of energy, thoughts, feelings swirling around.

[20:57]

Sometimes even inside and outside. You sit along and the mental capacity to keep differentiating inside, outside, me, other, dissipate and then sometimes it can become a dream. So the yogic challenge of the Sambhogakaya is to witness is to be part of this interaction but to bring to it the mind of the great sage of India. They bring to it the spiritual source that shines clear in the life. They bring to it an awareness that's something different from just being swirled around by.

[22:00]

And in the Dharmakaya nothing other than just energy. And maybe even to say it's energy is to point towards a direct experiencing rather than just positive idea that's still merging with principle. There's nothing to swirl around and there's nothing swirling around. They're both the product of some something.

[23:12]

It's like one of the images in Zen, poetic images Shadow sweeps across the steps and not a single mote of dust is stirred. When nothing's created, there's nothing to create disturbance. There's nothing to stir up the dust. There's nothing to create agitation. So this is also that. Grasping at things is basically a great illusion. Trying to do something more about it, grasping at principle, is still about it either. Setting something up and setting up an antidote, neither rock quite reaches it.

[24:12]

So then we're starting to move from the basic concept of practice and the request of practice, starting to look at the particular. What is it to do with Zaza in a way that when we're creating something it's just allowed to flow back into big mud what is it to do in a way that when it's being experienced as interaction as dynamic events that even that's not being grasped that it's allowed to just just not be related to with any attraction or aversion and then from that basis then it starts to offer a response to how that is and in some ways

[25:51]

that's the principle that's the methodology that's the realization all the objects I think I left you a little dazed with that any comments? Yes? I have a question. So in my personal experience, when I'm giving up grasping, giving up things, after a while, what sort of arises like this kind of like resentment of like, I'm giving up that grasping thing, but that's me.

[26:56]

So like, I don't want to give. So what's left? And so I guess my question is, how do you just reassure yourself that it's OK? I don't know. Or do you not reassure yourself? And that's just like, you just let yourself be kind of tormented or something. Let yourself be tormented. I think in some ways it's a pretty messy proposition. Sometimes you're tormented and you thrash around to that and then somehow or another you drop it and you think, oh my God, thank goodness that's over. Or sometimes we experience tormenting ourselves then we discover something about dropping it, how it can be intentional.

[27:59]

Sometimes we watch ourselves go in and out. Sometimes it's like we just feel lighter, more connected. All the deep things of our life that I've had it so painfully just don't seem quite as painful in this moment. And then other times we notice we seem to be more in them than we've ever been before. And then we start to see, oh, you know, I go up and die. Sometimes I go up and die in a single afternoon. It's like there I am, I'm going along, I feel great, and then something happens and Either I flip or I just start to slide. Sometimes that too, you know, you watch yourself. And then sometimes that's a great line of watching that even in a single day or single afternoon, you can have a high and a low.

[29:06]

And then hopefully it helps us to create a kind of resilience. Hey, things are not too good right now. I guess that's how it is or not. It's one of those days, you know? And you just keep doing what you're good, following the schedule, following your breath, whatever it is. And then sometimes it's about close enough to it that we can literally start to experience it all as a construct. And we can start to experience, you can energize the construct, you can think more about it, you can grasp it or not.

[30:17]

It's like something comes up and you watch yourself like, and then you go, Can it all, first of all, kind of be a kind of a resilience to kind of stay with it? And then can that resilience right then into a certain kind of equanimity? Doesn't mean we have to be calm and serene, but it can only be enough presence and balance and uprightness that enables and supports conscious engagement. I've been stuck on the same two sentences all day. And there's something here, and I just don't know what it is, so I'm wondering if there's something.

[31:19]

On a deeper level, the mind relaxation creates the karma, which in turn leads to the movement of the normal. Every phenomenon exists is a construct of the movement of our mind. Therefore, phenomenon exists only because of the actions of our mind. Understand that there is an objective existence. Understand that there is. An objective existence. Understand that there is an objective existence. Do you want me to finish the plot we have here? Sure. OK, he says, the chair does not appear out of the air because my mind moved. But it is my moving mind that sees this physical mass and adds mental constructions, uses it, perceives it, interprets it, gives meaning to it. And you're having a hard time understanding what that all is about? Or is there a particular question? I read that. And can you go back over it? And I still sort of sit with, I'm missing something in what he's saying.

[32:24]

There's something not. Here's how I understand what you're saying. The Holy God. There's a response to it. And that can be a simple sign of fire engine. I say it can be even simpler. It can be signed. It can be signed of fire engine.

[33:26]

Is there always a response to it now? The response becomes more relationship to the state of consciousness that's experiencing. So, sign of a fire engine. Nasty sign of a fire engine. Nasty sign of a fire engine that makes me angry. Or maybe let's break down a little more. Nasty sign of a fire engine that gets rise to anger. Nasty sign of a fire engine, it makes me angry. Nasty sign of a fire engine, it makes me angry because this is a largely city. So something arises and this becomes a nasty city.

[34:34]

as a consequence of the alchemy between karmic involvement with the rising phenomenon. And so is the, I don't want to say objective, but is the request of practice then sound arises and then sound falls away? The request of practice is to wake up and whatever My wife's saying, well, the request of practice is you should stop at, you know, here. I mean, the most exact request of practice is that even a sign arises is creating something. This is a lousy city. Then we've got, it's got nothing to do with me, I just have the misfortune of living in a lazy city.

[35:37]

That's an objective, independent morality that I'm burdened by because of my bad life. Or maybe it's as a consequence of wrongdoing I did in this life or previous life, and I'm being punished. hopefully to purify me. In the future of life, I'll be born in a city where there's no families. Okay, you're just fine. So once you get to substantive objective existence all sorts of conclusions and causes and consequences can start to be built up around it so what he's saying is that if you can get close to the initial grasping rather than have to move

[37:03]

from San Francisco to Miami or somewhere else. We can just see a little bit of life. Would you say that it is logical to think of as the settling of mind When you talk about initial beginning and intensive whatever, bringing it to Zaza when we do an intensive sushi, that the first stage could be somewhere higher, the settling of the mind before you were thinking of Dharmakaya. Yes and no. It's settling in as much as There's equanimity. But usually we say, you know, when things are the way I want them to be, then I'll feel equanimity.

[38:12]

When the temperature's just right, the science, the room, then I'm going to say, okay, this is okay. But a more profound request of equanimity is to be okay with things the way they are. And in the karmic nature of the nirvana karmic, things have pleasant or harsh quality. Unneutral. And I have a response to pleasant and I have a response to harsh. Actually, I have a range of responses. And sometimes I'm totally into them and caught up in them. And sometimes I have a little looser around them. And then sometimes I just watch them come and go. So when I'm in the throes of my karmic responses, I need certain set of conditions to feel equanimity. As I release them more, as I release into the dynamic nature of the sambokakaya, then it's like, oh, look at this, look at that, oh, look, sign of a fire alarm, unpleasant.

[39:25]

Okay. Next. So that equanimity is not so dependent. the bodhisattva, the practitioner, is dwelling in this state of watching everything come and go and the mind is muhimgans. So that equanimity is not based on... It's like sometimes you notice in your sitting there can be an ease even though you're not that concentrated and you're not that like what's coming up is just coming up and it's it's not just sweet it's there it is a variety of things so to pursue it just a little bit the it would be logical

[40:37]

word, but it would be acceptable to, using the example of the first day of a seven-day session, is to observe your mind coming up with all kinds of stuff and give your mind permission to do that and sit and watch it. It doesn't present a contrary conclusion saying, OK, you have some little mind. Yeah. Yeah. OK. And then after that, I want you to be quiet. That may be simplistic, but I think that's one thing you learn. I think as you keep sitting with the machine, you sort of learn that Give over to it. Sometimes dependent on how much you're bringing to it. Maybe you flop around a little or maybe you flop around a lot.

[41:43]

It's a little bit like don't let that deter you or distract you from this giving over. I would say in a way that eyes and eyes don't like what comes up deter you from the intention to be present. Can you tell the difference between just dropping something that constantly comes out or repressing it? I mean, then we should somehow deal with it. We just want it. I mean, for me, that's sometimes a problem. I don't know, because I dropped it, and I'm successful. But I don't know, now, is that being inclinious about it? Or is that just really good depression? You know, and I'm not even aware of it.

[42:47]

Because then the following day, it comes up again. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's a great question. And I think in some ways, that's just Part of this study and learning is to discover the difference. And then I would also say that the more it's a thing, the more we're doing something to it. And the more it's just the enamored play of energy in the moment, There's less of a thing to do anything to it. And it's the grasping that substantiates its things. It's like then there is something to grasp or suppress. And so that's, so the challenge for us is to keep netting and use the image of the sandukai.

[43:58]

the spiritual light of the mind of the great sage to let that reveal this is just an arising this is just a dynamic arising and my mind is grasping it to the point where I conclude San Francisco is a rising place to live and that's what I'm at right now That's this morning's month. So in some ways, it feels to me that many parts of the Sandakai are subtly pointing toward skillful means. That there is a way of responding to the world, whether we're

[45:07]

that is not about attachment to things or attachment to ideas or about conceptualizing our practice. That there is this way of being that's possible. Yeah. Exactly. And it's asking us both to appreciate it as an admonition for practice, and then it's saying, As this line is just the last line, we were just witnessing it. And that's not realization. In a way, that's coming to prepper through these steps. Can that be an instruction as to how you practice mindfulness? Can that be an instruction for how you relate to what arises when you interact with somebody? In a way, we can always be like, well, this is a two-step admonition.

[46:09]

First, grasping's not where it's at. And even getting, oh, I get it, grasping's not where it's at. That's not where it's at either. It's turning that into a practice. And then the next couple of lines are laughing, you know, because, and it's not really, it's one way we can read it, because objects of the senses interact and do not interrupt because when I turn the sign of the fire engine into a thing a nasty disturbance then my mind is disturbed because there is an interaction I'm now disturbed and that has consequences. It's harder to stay in touch with things in my body, harder to let my breath flow.

[47:15]

They interact. And then from the place of big mind, the sign of the fire engine, that whole phenomenon is just a flower. It's just this amazing arising of existence that blooms. It's this exquisite demonstration of suchness. This so-called disturbance is a flower. Look at that. Look at how Precious and vulnerable. This one life, this life force that flows through the lives. Even the sign of a fire behind, it makes it shake and the wind that it creates.

[48:27]

It's completely itself. that moment is meeting that disturbed mind. And then there's also appreciating interactions, just seeing how that comes into relationship with everything else. My mind is disturbed I think San Francisco's not a very good place to live. I think that fire engines are a nuisance and a hindrance to Zazen. What else do I think? All sorts of things. It comes into relationship with all sorts of thoughts and feelings.

[49:33]

This is the constructed nature of existence. There is interaction, and yet it is just itself. It is a unique arising. Interaction brings involvement. That's just what I was saying. So then is interaction a bad thing? Otherwise things remain in their own place. Is that the goal? This vast empty Buddha field in which flowers appear, popping up and being blown away by golden wings.

[50:50]

interaction brings involvement, otherwise each keeps its place. So in a way, we could say these lines, these last three cupboards are really lurking at phenomenal existence, how phenomenal existence develops into the involvement of our being. In a way, this is a lot of what mindfulness is, you know? watch how things get triggered and watch what gets triggered and then that in reality does whatever the heck it does and then something else comes along and then usually we have competing and overlapping arising this one distracts us from this and then and then part of our suffering is it feels like there's all these unfinished agendas.

[52:13]

I never did quite to resolve whether or not I should leave San Francisco. But now I'm annoyed at the work leader for forgetting to tell me I should have done this before I did that. So part of the challenge, part of the request is And it's like, in a way, come to conclusion. It's like you're sitting in Zazen and the same thing, the same unfinished piece of business pops up. And then it pops up again. It's like it's saying, you know, I'm not done yet. Can you listen to this story once again more carefully? Because I don't think you're paying attention to myself. I don't think you really got the message.

[53:15]

Let me say it to you once again. And then you relive the infinite, the thought. Would you think it was actual or not? Part of the challenge of mindfulness, of being grounded in the present experience, is literally, can it come to conclusion? And that's a subtle process because, from a karmic point of view, well, for it to come to conclusion, it means to do that on my terms, whatever they want. Coming to conclusion in a Dharma sense is that it's the realization that it is what it is. And that's part of the differentiation that we're trying to experience.

[54:18]

There's a difference between a conclusion in my terms and a conclusion that just says this moment is what it is. Part of that may have the attribute of pleasant or unpleasant or neutral. Part of that may have the attribute of soft, flowing mind. Part of that may have the attribute of contracted, agitated mind. That's how it is. It's like, can there be this steady practice that just, OK, means this moment, the image is there, is that the moment is completely engaged.

[55:23]

And it's not like I realized the moment. It's more like the moment is completely engaged. And there is just engagement. And there is no I to realize something. Can you really think of that? Well... Well, so robbed of emotion. So what? So robbed of another sort of animal emotion that's occurring as these. So robbed? So robbed of it. Yeah? In fact, this is the sort of question related to frequent visitors and education and seeing those thoughts. I've always utilized the tool of seeing what emotional character flavor is behind that .

[56:32]

And it seems to free it. It seems to sort of free of an energy space in my mind where I don't have it, it disappears because it's a reoccurring . Say that little piece again. How do you do that? This frequent thought of, oh, there it is again. And what's the idea? Or what is it for your life? Or what's the case with it? And then it seems to change, evolve, and disappear. And it seems to lessen. It's like a remedy. So when you say, what's behind it, or what does it feel like, then what happens? It seems to disappear or change. Seems to disappear. It just, it flows back into this constant sort of energy. Yeah. I would say, Chris, that sometimes, maybe for some people more than others. You know, in your basuttas, pretty straightforward it says it can be experienced with clear awareness it just dissipates if it can be made contact with and experience and insight brought

[57:54]

and it stays solid, then needed with an entity. And my notion is that all of this, each of us, in different states of mind, you know maybe in some states of mind we can drop anything, maybe in some states of mind We can drop a lot of things and leave a few things that maybe we're not even so aware of that we're holding. And then occasionally something grips us and becomes very real. And its influence blossoms out and finds reality. And I think it's helpful to say Okay, all of that.

[59:08]

All of that is within the realm of experience and all of that is the grind of practice. So be it. There's something there in that that stops saying, okay, this is going to be corralled into a certain in a certain territory. It's all the grammar practice. Those moments when I'm totally stuck. Look at that. What's it feel like to be totally stuck? Those moments where the mind is soft and letting everything go. I mean, there's all sorts of rich and wonderful wets. What's the felt experience of body when things are soft and loose? What's the feeling in the shoulders and the belly?

[60:11]

What's literally the feeling of the disposition of mind? And in between, the different ways of investigating. You're all around the Dharma. it starts to introduce a kind of equanimity. It's not so contingent upon an evolved practice that's not so contingent upon, OK, but when it's like this, I'm feeling like this, then I can get my mojo and work. Then I can bring it for you, the good stuff. Any other comments or questions? It's kind of interesting that you talk about grasping or letting go or clinging related to what we do with our hands.

[61:26]

Chinese, is this grasping also? Is it like an understanding or does it also have the implication that you're also holding on something in your hands? You say that we relate it to what we do with our hands? Yeah. I mean, can an animal without a possible promise grasp? I'm jealous. You know, biting things is, they're just basically the way they stand. You know, I wouldn't include that also. I think it's, you know, really what we're talking about is grasping with mind. You know, and then whether we use our hands a lot when we're involved in what we're trying to say and trying to communicate. But we're talking about the human condition.

[62:32]

It's important for us not to be presumptuous enough to say that other realms of existence, even the other species within this realm of existence, are having to see and experience as us. Guys, sometimes you can look around and you can feel like, we're all in our own individual realm of existence I remember being at Tassajara and noticing this person comes in in a t-shirt and this person comes in in a darn jacket to sit in the same temperature you know when I saw that I thought we really do have our individual experience I think it is more grasping in a mental sense. It all plays through our body.

[63:33]

It's a good question. What was coming up in my mind was different kinds of formalizations in the world of Western psychology. We say some people are more body types and some people are more other kinds of types. Different categories of ways of categorizing us. They do seem to say that some people are more physical. how they embody the experience that I've received. So here's a- Just a second. I'm sorry.

[64:33]

It's all over. It's okay. I'll get back to you in a moment. I was just thinking when you talked about the objects of the senses and kind of talking about the sound from a fire. I work with, as well, are some of these energies and bodily sensations. At the base level, there are these bodily sensations. I've got an energy in my leg or an energy in my chest. But that is also something that can be input into interacting with it or not grasping. This is what we discover in our practice. We discover all sorts of subtle techniques. And I think that can often be helpful.

[65:36]

We can start to differentiate between energizing as a process of objectifying and bringing the attention to a different quality of the experience. allows it more just to be an energy. I was just going to say, you were talking about how everybody has a different experience and in some ways everybody lives in their own completely isolated realm of karmic experience. But there's this consistent thread and in Zen literature that also there's this complete universality of what Muman says is, when you see through it, you're essentially seeing with Josh's eyes. And it's the same.

[66:48]

You're a person from Kentucky, and you have all those strong associations with being from Kentucky. Well, in Kentucky, we don't do that. Well, then your sense of differentiation is very strong, and it expresses itself in all sorts of very particular ways. When you have a sense of the energy of being flowing through you and a sense that all human beings want to eat when they're hungry and sleep when they're tired and that all human beings are angry and sad and frightened and all sorts of other things start to see that, then the sameness starts to emerge.

[67:56]

And the seeing of it, the waking up to it, the realizing of it, that it's there is the potential for all beings. When that manifests, then there is kind of the potential, the Buddha potential is realized. And then you see with Buddha's eyes and you here in his ears. So is that what Jesse meant when he said, where I come from, they make big radishes? No, actually, he was pointing a difference. He was saying, well, actually, in Kentucky, we do have our own national, our own state flour and our own state sun. And in Mexico. And we make big radishes. So is it that, according with the principle, it's not in my need because it's a conceptualization?

[69:02]

Because it's a way of saying, yes, I understand this, in contrast to just the same thing? Well, in one way, yes, it's a conceptualization. But then, as a guide to my conversation, it's also saying, And just emphasizing the sameness misses the fact that there's difference. And then even more suddenly it's saying, even holding the two truths of sameness and difference, even just holding that, is different from actualizing it and going beyond any ideal. But actualizing it. is not worth, or actualizing is beyond principles. Okay, so before we close, let me just say, so we're going to go to a Chan temple today. I had hoped to find a concise handout, but I couldn't.

[70:06]

But as I was saying the other day, you know, the interesting thing, you know, we read all these books from the Tongue dynasty and the Solomon dynasty, and, you know, really, the foundation of our notions of what is Zen and Chan. And the temple we're going to, I think, is part of the consequence of this powerful teacher, Antikara, who died... In the 50s at the age of 120. Died in the 50s. How old was he? 120. He was still leading at the age of 100, I don't know, 11, 12, or 15. And what we're going to experience this afternoon is he became enormously influential in practice in China, in the China school.

[71:18]

And then Master Hua came from China and set up in Chinatown. And he had a powerful presence. I mean, his early monks, they didn't lie down. They just sat aside and I'm like, come on. They actually have little sleeping boxes. you get some kind of physical support from you. But they did. And the teacher, unfortunately, he's in Australia, so we're not going to get to see him, I'm sure, was notable that he and another monk, I think in the 80s, he walked from Somewhere to Ukiah, they walked 600 miles.

[72:19]

And every Pasadena, Pasadena to Ukiah. And every three steps, they did a full prostration. That's a reaction. Yeah, and I'm sorry you're not going to meet me because you think, well, what kind of person would do that? I mean, you'd meet this guy, you know, and you'd think, hmm. And especially if you watched him, you know, break out his guitar and start singing you a couple of tunes. It's not quite nice. But to watch for the five modes of practice that have been formulated in this school, That's, I hope, part of what will be taught or communicated this afternoon. And then to watch for the cultural influence.

[73:23]

You know, when it was in China time, it was very much immersed in the Chinese community. And then it moved up to Ukiah, to the city of 10,000 Buddhists, and several other temples. So watch all that. The cultural influence, the doctrinal influence, the influence of personality. In other words, the Soto school that we're part of is so influenced by the teachings of Jodin's engine. This school is so influenced by a more modern teacher, M.P. I'll just say that so you can watch all that. We've scored away all the logistics, huh? You said what we need to sense on that.

[74:25]

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