This podcast is offered by San Francisco's Zen Center on the web at sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Thank you so much, David, for that warm introduction. I also take great delight in having gotten to know you, and David took such good care of me. when I arrived yesterday and made me feel at home. And thank you also to you, Rinsil Roshi. You allowed all of this to happen, even though you didn't know me at all. But then we met just a few weeks ago at Zen Mountain Monastery in New York. And it was such a pleasure to meet you and have lunch with you. Thank you very much. Yeah, this is a very meaningful visit for me personally.

[01:10]

As David said, I started my practice here in 1996, actually in Green Gulch, where maybe I did what some of you did today. I just received a dozen instruction. And I was living 10 blocks up the street and between Page and Haight Street on Central Avenue. And I was able to ride my bike down here, you know, come to Tazen. I remember very clearly my first work meeting, which the work meetings don't seem to have changed so much, you know. There's a circle and somebody's assigning tasks. And I was assigned to polish the doorknob of the front door. And I was given a rag and some solution to polish it with. And then I went outside and examined the doorknob.

[02:13]

And it didn't seem like there was a lot to polish. The doorknob was perfectly fine. I mean, from my point of view, it wasn't even tarnished. And then I, you know, wanting to... do my job, I started to polish it anyway. And when I stepped back from the doorknob, somehow the sun found its way through the branches of the tree that's outside the door and the doorknob exploded with golden radiant light because the sun hit it right there. And, you know, it's just a ordinary occurrence. But for me, it was actually, it was the first teaching that I received, not from anyone, but from the doorknob, that it was actually, there was something to this giving attention, polishing, taking care of ordinary things, even though we may think that that's

[03:33]

Unnecessary. Something gets invited. In this case, it was the sun that interacted with the doorknob and created this wonderful display. So those are some of the instances that I remember from being here that set me on the path, and I'm very grateful for that. 22 years later, I get to sit here. It's kind of miraculous. So thank you very much for welcoming me into your practice space. David told me that the theme of the study at the Beginner's Mind Temple right now is the Genjo Koan. And you said... might be useful for me to say something about the Genji Koan.

[04:36]

So I'll see. First, maybe let me say that the Genji Koan is not a text. I mean, it's a text, but it's not a text. It's a practice, an enactment, something to do, something to... Attend to... Actually, when? Right now. Something to attend to in this very moment. Or we could say... Presencing the present. And I'd like to relate to the text, which is one of, you know, maybe... Dogen's most celebrated expression of his way of Zen, I'd like to think of it as an instruction for how to do that.

[05:39]

And not only a description of how reality functions and how we can function in it better, but a real instruction to realize freedom right here and now. I mean, really. And it's not possible, I think, to talk about the text in a sequential way like we're going through it. And here's, let's interpret it. So for this talk, I'm thinking of just... picking one phrase, using that one phrase as a way of receiving instruction for how to actualize this very moment and what that could mean. So the phrase I have in mind is, when you see form or hear sound, fully engaging body and mind,

[06:55]

you experience dharmas intimately. When you see form or hear sound, fully engaging body and mind, you experience dharmas intimately. This is not like things and their reflection in a mirror, and it is not like the moon and its reflection in the water. So, rather than talking about the phrase, I want to invite you to do a little experiment with me. I mean, it will maybe sound a little bit like a guided meditation or something.

[07:59]

But I don't want to guide you. And I don't expect you to... follow anything that I'm saying, but you might want to try something out. What I really want to do is invite you into exploring some possible shifts that might be possible for you in how you locate yourself in the world. So if you feel like it, you know, this is usually the instruction that we receive as a beginner, like I did 22 years ago, You might want to bring attention to your breathing. Not that you have to accomplish anything there. It's just bringing attention to your breathing and notice what you find. And what I find is just an expansion.

[09:05]

contraction of certain parts of my body, the abdominal space, the chest, expanding and contracting. And you could ask yourself, am I breathing? Just breathing, just breathing. Maybe the world is breathing us. I don't know. Maybe the world is just pushing air into me and it's sucking it out. I mean, usually I have the idea that I'm sucking air in and pushing it out, but me? Who knows? It's happening. I'm alive.

[10:08]

Breathing confirms it. And then, again, if you feel like it, you might want to let this breath attention spread throughout your whole body. Every cell, all the cells, can receive this breath attention. They, in fact, do receive this breath biologically, but also in our feeling, they can receive and they deserve this breathing attention. the body is... Or let me see, the cells aren't just receptacles for attention, they actually are also the origin of attention.

[11:36]

This is something, this is a shift to explore, maybe for some years to come. That the body isn't just the receptacle of attention, that we're not just... attending to the body, but that the body is the origin of attention and that we are attending with the body. What would it be like to attend, you know, we're talking about presencing the present, right? What would it be like to attend with the body, not to the body? In usual mindfulness instruction, as we're attending to the body, there's already a separation. I'm here and there's this body. If you want to think about it, if you think that you have a body, you're attending to the body.

[12:40]

If you think that you are the body, then you're attending with the body. attending with the body. And then, if you feel like it, you could attend with the body to space. Now, it's actually not looking around. It's just attending to space with the body. Feeling into space. We have a practice, the ten directions. You could feel into the space in front of you as far as it feels like it's possible.

[13:43]

Maybe to the wall in front of you or past the wall into a wider dimension of space. And then you can feel into the back of your body and into the space in the back. Again, as far as you can or want to attend to space in your back. And then on the left and on the right. And then if you want to practice the ten directions in between the four, and down into the earth, and up into the heavens, and then all around attend to space with the body. Now, there's maybe another shift you could contemplate.

[15:01]

It's like when I said, we're not attending to the body, we're attending with the body, but now, what if we didn't attend to space, but we decided to attend with space? Let space attend to you. Now you're turning the ten directions around. They're not just pointing outward. You're feeling into space. But now it's like space is attending to you. It's actually the whole... The ten directions, the whole world is coming together to make this body possible. To let this body... Right now. Breathing is part of it.

[16:02]

All the ingredients of the world and the ten directions are coming together to make this moment possible. To make this breathing body possible. You can allow yourself to feel that supported. You don't have to do anything for it. It's already happening. And space attends equally to this body as it attends to all other bodies, all other objects in space. We're all emerging equally. Together. from this space. And that space isn't just an idea, it's not something we think about, but I think you want to find a way to go through these shifts as they occur in your practice and as you kind of put yourself to the edge of them so that this space is really filled with

[17:22]

Breathing, bodily, attentional mind. So Dogen's phrase was, seeing form, hearing sound, fully engaging body and mind. This is how I approach fully engaging body and mind. As a practice. So, Zuko Rishi says, in giving zazen, I mean, there's a kind of zazen instruction in Zen Mind Beginner's Mind that I love, where he says, the mind pervades the whole body. Let the mind pervade the whole body.

[18:23]

And then let the mind, through the body, pervade all of space. So then, if you want to, bring that breathing, that breath-body attention, to your eyes and see what captures your attention. So then let attention fully flow into that object that you're attention is captured by, that you're giving attention to, that's calling your attention and that you're giving attention to. And let attention fully flow into that seeing form.

[19:36]

It's fascinating because I think we tend to think that that the world is already given. It's out there. It's like a collection, a constellation of objects. It's like the world is all the different objects of the world constellated together. Yeah, they're changing, but they're just out there like that. But we participate. We participate attentionally in what we bring forward. in the world. What arises? If I attend to this, I'm not attending to that. So what's in my attentional focus is where my life energy, we could say, is going at this time.

[20:43]

It's... Where your attention goes, your life goes. It's actually very important where your attention goes. Because that's your life at this moment. That's the focus. Within a field that is just kind of receding into the background, something is brought into, it's almost like you're lifting it out, and the rest is receding. So now as you're doing this, you could shift back and forth between the focus and the field. The field is like looking at nothing in particular. It's just letting it all kind of let yourself take it in with no specific focus and then pick up something else.

[21:43]

The sheen on this. Beautiful bowing mat. And the pattern of the tatami. A little worn. It's being used. So, attention is just going from one focus to another focus. Seeing form. or hearing sound. Similarly, there's an attention that can rest fully in the sound that you're hearing right now, my voice, or when I stop the traffic. And like with shifting from the focus to the field, you could, as you're attending to a sound, listen for the silence that's co-present with the sound, like the field that is no sound in particular, but that is filled with the potential for all sounds, and then manifesting one.

[23:11]

When you hear form or when you see form or hear sound, fully engaging body and mind, you experience dharmas intimately. This word dharmas here is really... As I said, I think our usual view of the world is that the world is an assembly or constellation of things. But Dogen is actually presenting a different kind of worldview to us here. He's presenting the worldview that I was trying to explore with you right now of... At one time, this form arises.

[24:34]

And then, at one time, this sound arises. And at one time, this feeling arises. And attention is actually traveling from one dharma, this is the technical term, from one dharma to another dharma. Even that's not right. It's almost like space is pulsing with these dharmas that are arising one at a time, together with the field from which they are emerging. The field is never separate. In our mind, particularly if you're starting to do something like I did, oh, the tatami mat, and it's worn, and you let your mind... go into conceptualizing the appearance, the field is forgotten. The field from which the focus arises or this particular dharma arises is forgotten.

[25:48]

So it can be our practice effort to... Stay attuned to the field simultaneously with the particular that arises at this time. Am I making sense? Yes? Some? Now I want to do another experiment with you. So as you're doing that, bringing attention to your breathing, letting it spread through the body, maybe let it overflow into space. Let space attend to you...

[26:53]

together with all things, and allowing this presence to inform your seeing, your hearing, your feeling, smelling, tasting, all the senses, do you find any fundamental problem with your existence? Some people are going like... Again, do you find any fundamental problem with your existence right now? Some people are smiling. I guess you don't find a fundamental problem. What's loaded? In what way? Okay.

[27:59]

Yeah, exactly. So we actually have a choice. This is fascinating. We actually have a choice. I mean, again, do you find a fundamental problem with your existence right now? No. Well, congratulations. This is a moment of freedom. This is a moment of liberation. There's actually no fundamental problem with... our existence, with your existence, with my existence, with some of... It's actually no fundamental problem. The Genja Koan isn't just a description of reality or a very refined way to train our attention. It's actually an instruction to actualize freedom at this time. And so the question, again, is... Do you find any fundamental problem with your existence right now?

[29:01]

If your answer is no, you are actualizing freedom. It's completely available. It's not like you have to practice for 20 years and then experience freedom after an arduous path. It's available right now if you choose to look at it that way. Now, some of you may, particularly as you are attending... No, let me say it differently. So as you said, what's your name? Dan. Hi, Dan. So as Dan said, well, yes and no. So where's this yes coming from? Because I speculate that you have some thought or plenty of thoughts that you can pick up easily where you can say, oh yeah, there's a lot of problems. Like there's problem number one and... and there's this and that, and, you know, my life is actually very problematic. So if you're doing something like that, I wonder if you could step back and, again, bring attention to your breathing, your body a little bit, you know, step out of your thinking mind as much as that's possible for you, and say, okay, so I have these problems, but is there a fundamental problem with having these problems?

[30:22]

Are they unmanageable? Are they completely unworkable? Do they kill you? Do they kill me? Are they making me dysfunctional in the world? I would also recommend that if you have such an exploration, maybe instead of thinking about your problems, go to your body and ask yourself, where in the body do I experience this problem? as a sensation. And now, you may find some intense sensations as you're attending to the body. Very intense, possibly. When I came into this room, I felt some intensity. I was like, well, there's all these people. I need to say something.

[31:23]

There's some intensity. But then again, ask yourself, is there a fundamental problem with experiencing intensity, or is that just something that comes with being a human being? Anyway, we might as well get used to it. Being alive means some intensity will arise now and then. But the fascinating thing is, as we're making space through our attentional practice, and as we're allowing maybe even space to attend... to our intensity, we may find that we have a lot more resilience to make space for and experience the intensity that arises in our lives than we've previously thought. This is Zazen. This is a part of Zazen. Suzuki Rishi in Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind says, It's in the same area where I picked up The Mind Pervades the Whole Body.

[32:27]

It's a chapter on no dualism. All right, that's titled No Dualism. He says, You sit with painful legs without being disturbed by them. You know, sitting with some intensity. It doesn't have to be just in the leg. Maybe it's in your heart. Maybe it's in your throat. You know, maybe you feel anxiety or something you call anxiety or sadness, something you call sadness, but on the sensation level of your experience, it's just this intensity. And you sit with intensity without being disturbed, without having a fundamental problem with that. This is, Suzuki Roshi again, this is to sit without any gaining idea. To find your way, again, Suzuki Rishi is saying, to find your way under some restriction, moment after moment, is the way of practice.

[33:40]

To find your own way under some restriction, moment after moment, now. That's now. To find your way under some restriction now is the way of practice, is the way of liberation. I think in our culture we think of freedom as the absence of limitation. When all the limitations are absent, I will be free. Well, when is that going to happen? This is never going to happen. To be alive, to be a body, is to be profoundly limited in every way. It's to know that we're going to die.

[34:42]

It's to know that we are rather powerless small beings in a large world. It's just this point of view, profoundly limited. Is there any fundamental problem with that? To find your way under some restriction, under some limitation, So from the point of view of Buddhism and Zen, freedom is to find liberation within your limitations. You can tune your mind to this station where you can actually say, you can actually answer no to the question, is there a fundamental problem with my existence right now, or with existence right now?

[36:05]

And you can say, no, actually not. This could be an inspiration. Like, if this is possible to feel this kind of freedom in this very moment, it's probably possible to feel it in any moment. We can make that choice. We can make that commitment. To actually step into... the freedom of this moment within some limitations and with some restriction. I think most of us live like we... There's some problem with me and the world right now, and we need to really work on it.

[37:09]

And when we work on it, sometime in the future, we can afford... you feel complete and free. But what if you decided that you can feel free and complete already now and then because you care so much you also choose to do something about the suffering of the world. I mean your own and others. When you see form or hear sound now, fully engaging body and mind, not thinking about it, but feeling with breathing, feeling with the body, feeling even with space, fully engaging body and mind, you experience dharmas,

[38:29]

sensorial events, the stuff of our life, but not conceived as things, but conceived as appearances, you experience dharmas intimately. What does intimate mean? Dogen explains, he says, this is not like things. and their reflection in the mirror. And it is not like the moon and its reflection in the water. It's not that there is a self that is experiencing the thing like a mirror. This is our life. This space from which we are emerging right now is our life right now.

[39:33]

This is you already. I don't know what time it is, but I think it is time to stop, David says. I take that as an order. And like I said, this visit is very meaningful to me, but I hope that I was able to say something meaningful for you as well.

[40:35]

And I understand that after a break there will be some opportunity for dialogue. And I would like that very much. If you could come because then I can get to know you a little bit and see what's on your mind. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, please visit sfcc.org and click Giving. May we all fully enjoy the Dharma.

[41:22]

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