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Embracing Interconnectedness for Compassionate Living

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Talk by Ryushin Paul Haller at City Center on 2023-08-05

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The talk analyzes the responsibilities tied to events like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, emphasizing the human tendency to categorize into "us versus them" and how such divisions justify violent actions. It discusses Zen teachings on holding a “way-seeking mind,” advocating for equanimity, resilience, and the continual questioning of how to integrate these teachings into daily life. The collective nature of responsibility and the importance of remembering and learning from historical traumas are underscored, urging the audience to approach life with integrity and compassion.

  • Mahayana Buddhism: Explored as the contextual framework for examining shared responsibility and personal agency in historical atrocities.
  • Bodhisattva Vow: Discussed as a commitment to address the impossible challenges of life and bear witness to its complexities with compassion.
  • Thich Nhat Hanh's "Interbeing": Mentioned as a translation of the Buddhist concept of emptiness, emphasizing interconnectedness and collective responsibility.
  • The Lotus Sutra: Referenced for its phrase "Buddha alone, together with all Buddhas," highlighting the dual nature of individual and collective spiritual practice.
  • David White's Poem "The House of Belonging": Described as a contemplation on finding personal and communal belonging amidst life's challenges.

AI Suggested Title: Embracing Interconnectedness for Compassionate Living

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Transcript: 

Thank you. good morning good morning we signed okay in the corners yeah

[21:07]

This morning we did here in the Buddha Hall, about three hours ago, we did a memorial for the people who were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, 78 years ago. I was thinking about it in terms of what do we do? Do we blame others? I wasn't there. I didn't pull the trigger, drop the bomb, make the decision. Do we shift responsibility to others and declare our innocence? Or do we... think of ourselves as part of United States and hold responsibility as a shared thing.

[22:30]

Or do we step even further back and think of the human condition and its for violence to create an us and them. And within that us and them declare that the ends justify the means. I think that's one of the most dangerous concepts we've ever come up with as humans. The ends justify the means. And then I thought, well, isn't this all of our lives? Aren't there things that happened in each of our lives that we think, should I take responsibility for that? Or shall I give responsibility for that to somebody else?

[23:43]

If only. if only this person hadn't done what they did. Several years ago, I heard a Japanese Zen teacher talk about the Second World War. And he said, if I'm remembering correctly, he said something like this. He said, and wholeheartedly disapprove of things that happened during the Second World War. And yet, I do not stand in judgment of the people who enacted them. They were in a time and place under the influences they were under, and they did what they did.

[24:46]

And he was actually talking about there was some notable Zen teachers of that time in Japan who seemingly endorsed the war. I add the word seemingly because at that time, if you spoke against the Japanese involvement in the Second World War, you could be killed. You could be executed. Some monks, Buddhist monks, were, spoke out against it and indeed were executed. Maybe it's good. Maybe it's helpful. Maybe it's encouraging for us to have an impossible...

[25:50]

I suspect that nobody in this room was actively involved in the decisions to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And yet. Does that absolve us of any. Blame a responsibility. Or does it teach us. How to approach. And live with. And find our ease. Our uprightness. Our validity of being. In a world. Such as the one we live in. Every day, some atrocity is happening somewhere.

[26:58]

And yet, we simply burden ourselves to the point where the vitality of our life or enthusiasm of our life, the existential wish to live is thwarted. Have we really helped anything? My understanding of Mahayana Buddhism, which Zen is part of, is something like this. Yes, indeed. Terrible things happen every day. And we live with the consequences of them. And sometimes knowingly and intentionally we participate. Sometimes unknowingly we participate.

[28:10]

Sometimes we rail against them, trying to change them. And can we hold all of that? all the different ways we can think about it, can we hold it in a way that it's a teaching? Of course, there can readily be for us an impulse to attribute blame. We're all culpable. We live in this nation, and this nation has benefited from... The dropping of those two terrible bombs. That white died in an instant. Well, both of them, they were a week apart or somewhat close a week, close to a week. They instantly white died 120,000 lives. And then there were those.

[29:18]

Died from radiation over the next year. 10 years. 20 years. Who knows. Can we not only remember. Can we not only acknowledge. But can we learn. And there's a particular term. In Buddhism, it translates into English as something like way-seeking mind. Or to put it in existential terms, how do we live in this world with an uprightness, a dignity, and dare we say it, an enthusiasm for being alive? That's what I'd like to talk about this morning.

[30:29]

And then. I'd like to. Begin talking about it. By referencing myself. And often. This is. Part of the Buddhist way. Start with where you are. And how you are in this moment. You know, actually, over the decades, I've sat here and gave talks. And initially, when I would give a talk, I would be quite intimidated by the process of sitting here offering some kind of version of Buddhism. And then as I started to notice that, I thought, well, what if I spent less time thinking about how is this for me or feeling how this is for me and spent more time thinking about what would be a helpful thing to say?

[31:48]

What would in this time and moment others relate to their lives? And even though I started with those ferocious questions, and maybe that's where we all start. We all start, where do we feel the pressure, the consequences of what's happening in our life? And how do we relate to it in a way that allows it to teach us and show, illustrate for us the path of liberation for ourselves and everyone else. And while we're at it, for all beings, including the animals and the birds and the insects and the fish.

[32:57]

All beings. So in my own way, I started to think, what can I say that's helpful? And then it alleviated some of what I think of as the existential concern about my well-being, my survival. which, in a way, we're hardwired to do. If you don't get air, if you don't get water, if you don't get food, your system lets you know that it's missing something that's precious to it, that's an essential ingredient of its well-being. And then from there,

[34:03]

if we don't get love, if we don't get a sense of security, if we don't get a sense of belonging, that also distresses us. And usually, we're so much caught up in those issues that we don't notice how we're caught up. You know, it just becomes normal. It becomes normalized. And then normal is taken for granted. And maybe. Things like a memorial. Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Maybe it's to. Remind us.

[35:03]

Don't be so casual. About normal. And can indeed. Can it stir within us. Concern for the needs. Of others. And the well-being of others. And then from there. I noticed. in myself, that these two interplay, the issues of the self, the agendas of the self, and what I've come to think of as our collective interbeing. I often marveled at Thich Nhat Hanh coming up with that word for Buddhist term. It's usually translated as emptiness. And then I discovered, when I read one of his talks, where he actually asked an audience, he tried out several words on them, and then the audience said, oh, interbeing, that's what we vote for.

[36:26]

And he said, okay, interbeing it is. Reminding ourselves that we're in this together and we can do it together. We don't individually have to have all the answers. That there's something in coming together and doing the memorial. There's something in coming together and acknowledging what's out of balance, what's inappropriate within our societal being. And as we do that, we all benefit. And we can evoke a wisdom and a compassion. And we can be reminded of what we already know.

[37:31]

Like when I attended that memorial this morning, And I had those thoughts about what happened tomorrow in Hiroshima, 78 years ago. It wasn't like the first time I ever heard it, but it reminded me of what I already knew. helped me think of the notion of knowing what you already know. Sometimes when we approach practice, we think, well, I need to know the Sanskrit word or the Japanese word or the Pali word. Maybe we don't. Maybe there's something in us that already knows. Something in us that's living a human life.

[38:39]

And our challenge is to remember. And very interestingly, the word, you know, the Pali word for mindfulness is sati. And the root of the word sati is remember. Remember what you already know about being who you are. Remember about what you know about breathing. Remember what you know about interbeing. Remember what you already know about not being selfish, caring for others. remember what you already know about belonging. As we discover collectively through our excesses, we're discovering that we belong to the earth.

[39:52]

The earth doesn't belong to us. It's more the other way around. And since we belong to it, We have a responsibility to take care of it. As it takes care of us. So we remember these basic things that we've known probably since we were seven years old. And maybe before that too. And so as I watch my own process, preoccupation, intimidation with sitting in the Dharma seat, softening it up by thinking about, well, what can I say that's a benefit?

[40:58]

And then as they both soften up, watching this interplay, between what arises in the world of self and what arises in the world of interbeing. And then the notion I'd offer you is, as we go through, as each of us goes through our own version of that process, then this phrase, way-seeking mind, what's happening now and what's an appropriate way to practice with it. Yeah.

[42:03]

And indeed, it asks of us a radical honesty. It asks of us to remember what we already know about living, about being the person we are, about inhabiting a planet with 8 billion others. And at the very same time, as it holds us in that request, it also offers us the teachings of liberation. There's a way in which asking ourselves, well, what is it to practice with this? There's a way it holds up and makes available some capacity within us that has integrity, that knows what it already knows, that has integrity.

[43:15]

the courage, the fortitude, the resilience, the equanimity to continue living this life in a engaging way that enlivens us. Yes, we can easily say, Probably most of us do. Oh, yeah, that was history. That was the Second World War and the First World War. And then all the great wars that have been fought. Because the ends justifies the means. But then. I would suggest to you, we miss. Something they have to teach us.

[44:16]

They miss something that can inform the intimate workings of our being. Who among us hasn't got annoyed and spoken in a given voice to our annoyance? Calling someone else thoroughly responsible for it. Among us. Hasn't. Avoided. Certain aspects. Of our. Collective social way. Well being. In. Just because. It seemed easier. You know. And the Bodhisattva vow. Of Mahayana Buddhism. And Zen Buddhism. It's very interesting. Because it says.

[45:20]

This is impossible. This is impossible to cure. This is impossible to culminate in success. This is impossible because of the endless influences that come to bear on each moment for each of us. It's impossible for us to right all the wrongs of the world. And in the midst of that impossibility, we say, however, that will be my agenda. Not so much to right the wrongs of the world, but to bear witness to them, to work with them, to let them teach me the integrity, the fortitude, the resilience, the equanimity. The loving kindness of being alive.

[46:27]

And what I'd like to talk about this morning is equanimity. I mean, there's many factors officially within the early Buddhist canon. There's either five factors or seven factors. I'd like to talk about two factors that arise within the realm of equanimity. Because somehow. As we start to be honest. And rather than. Setting up ignoring. Or avoiding. Or suppressing. Or compartmentalizing. As are how we're going to make our life work. You know. we're going to be honest about what's going on, then either it's going to overwhelm us or we're going to find some way to bring some equanimity to it.

[47:41]

And in the early canon, the early Buddhist canon, there's two main factors to equanimity. And I'm paraphrasing here, I think, in the service of trying to communicate it in a straightforward way. One factor is to see the big picture. And then the other factor is to find a certain resilience and composure as you work with the issues of your life. as you work with the impact of the issues of your life. And that in a way, these two factors balance each other. If we just take the big picture and think, well, this is what human beings do.

[48:54]

They divide themselves into us and them. I remember reading an article by Margaret Mead, a fabulous anthropologist who was researching in Borneo with tribes who'd had very little communication or connection to what we would call our wider society. And even in those small groups, Of 20 or 50 people. They established an us and them. Maybe saying. There's something. In how we're wired to be. This is what we do. We set up us and them. And then we. Elaborate. On the us and them, often in negative ways, and we become hostile.

[50:05]

Or suspicious. Or just judge them poorly. So we can take the big view of that. Okay, and then sometimes we drop atom bombs. Sometimes we bomb the ports that are trying to export the wheat to the starving people of Africa. Sometimes we pollute the seas or whatever. That's who we are. We stop there, and maybe that can give us some equanimity, but if we stop there, we miss the important ingredient, the important detail that each of us is a living, breathing, emoting human being.

[51:14]

that when we know what we already know, something marvelous can come forth from each human being. When we're less caught up in sorting the issues out for our own benefit, something marvelous comes forth. There's a way in which we... We bring forth the best of what we're capable of. And there's a way in which when we struggle with our issues, that we need each other's support, that we need each other's compassion, forgiveness, kindness, benevolence.

[52:23]

like when I first read the Thich Nhat Hanh asked his audience, which of these words do you think best describe Shunyata? It's commonly translated as emptiness. And actually it was in Green Gulch form. Where he asked the audience. So. Well, according to the article that he wrote. That's where it was. So our interbeing. Well, it throws us into the midst of the issues of our individual lives. in our collective life, it also can be an extraordinary resource.

[53:30]

And it's discovering how to work with it that allows it to be a resource rather than simply a burden or an affliction. then the question becomes how do we do that how do we be honest with ourselves about who we are and how we're being in the world and honest with others and bring forth the virtues that we're capable of rather than the um the ways in which we can get stuck, the ways in which we can think it's a plausible thing to say that ends justify the means.

[54:41]

And in the methodology of Zen Buddhism, this notion of way seeking mind is how we do that, how we, allow this human condition that we are, each of us is, that we allow it to be seen for what it is. And I would say to you, the capacity of being able to see it is the discovery and cultivation that each of us is obliged to go through. The discovery and cultivation of the virtue of being. And I'd like to offer you how a poet spoke to this notion, the virtue of being.

[55:58]

This is the last part. of a poem by David White called House of Belonging. And this is his version of the culmination of accessing the virtual being. This is the bright home in which I live. This is where I ask my friends to come. This is where I want to love all things and people. taken me so long to learn to love. This is the temple of my adult aloneness, and I belong to this aloneness as I belong to life. There is no house like the house of belonging. This is the bright home in which I live. This is where I ask my friends to come.

[57:02]

This is where I want to love all things and people. It has taken me so long to learn to love. This is the temple of my adult aloneness. And I belong to this aloneness as I belong to life. There is no house like the house of belonging. In a famous line from one of the Buddha's Sutras, the Lotus Sutra, there's a phrase that says, Buddha alone, together with all Buddhas. The Buddha alone being that no one

[58:06]

can create the awakening that we're capable of. No one else can do it for us. Each of us is challenged to take it on, to discover within the intimate workings of their being, what am I dealing with? How do I formulate the world? What kind of emotions and feelings and judgments and perspectives do I have? Each of us is responsible for that inquiry for ourselves. Now we can support each other. We can encourage each other. We can be kind and compassionate and understanding with each other. And still. There's an individual practice. And then the other part of the saying, Buddha alone, together with Buddhas, that indeed our interbeing, our collective being, also has a modality of our own, an aspect of our own salvation, if we want to call it that.

[59:32]

Maybe a simpler word is just nourishing our own life so that we can be fully the person we are. And I would leave you with the notion of way-seeking mind. What is it to practice with this? in the sensibilities of Zen Buddhism, the more we bring that question to bear on some aspect of our life, what is it to practice with this? The more we renew our intention. And Zen Buddhism, as to my reckoning,

[60:36]

all of Buddhism would say that the more we engage this question, this inquiry about practice, the more we call forth the virtue that's within us. It's not, the virtue within us is not based on what we accomplish. It's based on the good heartedness with which we make our efforts. And still there it is.

[61:39]

Hiroshima. Nagasaki. And all the terrible things that have happened in different wars. Can we remember? Can we stay close to what remembering brings up for us? translated into simple kindness, can be translated into taking a breath and seeing if whatever conflict is in our world, if it can be resolved with a spacious equanimity. As the civil rights worker who marched with Martin Luther King, John Lewis, said, once when asked a question about something that he was endeavoring to do that didn't go right, and the interviewer asked him, well, how was it not to have that work?

[63:09]

And he said, I'm in it for the long haul. My mind, that's the Bodhisattva vow. I'm in it for the long haul. Thank you. And now for question and answer.

[64:34]

Also, I know we've been sitting for a little while. If you need to adjust your posture, feel free to do that. You're welcome to stand up for a moment if you want to stretch out your knees. Sorry. Kathleen, could you give me... Just this. Just this. So if anybody has a question, feel free to raise your hand. Also, if you're online, you can raise your Zoom hand. And I believe there was... A question in the chat about which David White poem that was that you read from. The poem is called The House of Belonging.

[65:37]

Good morning, Paul. Good morning. I want to thank you for your talk, and I appreciate this remembrance around these atrocities. It's very powerful to reflect on, I guess, the karma and responsibility of actions. And my question is, what has come up for me a lot in these kinds of remembrances is complacency. There's a notion that there's, well, nothing I can do to alter the course of nuclear technologies, racism, sexism in the country. So... There's nothing I can do. So I'm off scot-free. And then that wonderful hot meal burns right here. And at the same time, the best way I can describe it, just the heaviness in the spine that says, well, what are you going to do anyway? How, as a practitioner, do you meet that complacency? And how do you either transform it, dissolve it, or adapt to it?

[66:52]

Mm-hmm. Well, in a way, that's what I was trying to address in my talk. And for me, it's completely resonant with the bodhisattva vow. It's impossible to control all the things that happen in the world. And yet, I will keep asking, what is it to practice with it? And I think that keeps asking us to cultivate and access our capacity for entering the world in a way that supports our common well-being. And I think each variation on the theme, you know,

[67:54]

We could sit here and list the different dimensions of our society as it is now in the United States and say, well, this needs attention and this needs attention. Yeah. And I don't think it would be erroneous to do that. And yet, each of us is limited. Collectively, as John Lewis would say, when we take it on for the long haul, things are possible. Change is possible, individually and collectively. And I think, sometimes I think, Sometimes I think equanimity is the most important attribute.

[69:01]

And then sometimes I think hopefulness. Because as I said, when we just push it aside, there's a kind of acknowledgement of impotence. There's nothing I can do. So then I should just shrink back into a kind of... My concern is just about me or me and a few others. I think the more we have a sense of the collective and we function in that way. And the more potent our collective capacity is. You've been talking a lot about equanimity, and I think I understand what you're saying about that.

[70:19]

Could you take a little bit to expand on the definition of what you mean by that? Well, mostly I was emphasizing two aspects of it. One aspect of equanimity is to see the big picture. Oh, this is the human condition. Like you could read the four noble truths and think, oh, yeah, and each person goes through that. Dukkha suffering is caused by getting overly concerned about the self. There's a path beyond it. And that path has its own details to it. You can say we're born, we live, we die. Every single one of us, all eight billion of us will go through that process. And. Why make a fuss about what happened 78 years ago? And the big picture. And then it needs to be balanced.

[71:21]

What I was saying was it needs to be balanced by each person is precious, including ourself. And each of us has a whole array of emotions and attitudes and conclusions about human life. And taking that on and discovering how that, the very person we are, can be a teaching rather than simply viewed as an affliction. When we make that shift, it really supports a kind of resilient equanimity. Thank you very much. There's this Buddhist notion that I've heard of called karma.

[72:24]

And I saw somebody recently wearing a hoodie from Tassahara with Japanese symbols on it, and they're interpreted as believe in cause and effect. And, you know, certainly we all in some way participated in the terrible days that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed. hundreds of thousands of people died. But I wonder in this notion of karma, and it's often forgotten that, you know, Japan engaged in horrific conduct, killing between often cited as 15 to 20 million Chinese civilians. So I'm wondering if they, you know, and there are many motives that Truman had in dropping the bomb, certainly to end the war of both bombs, but there were mixed motives. So I'm wondering, in your view of karma, does that play into what happened? And doesn't Japan have some responsibility for those terrible days?

[73:26]

And I know that there's different aspects of the way that history is taught in Japan and it's taught in the United States. But it always seemed to me that, I guess we all have our point of view, that they participated in those terrible days also. You know, I wouldn't deny that or contradict that at all. And I can imagine that the military generals or whoever decided to drop the bomb, the atomic bombs, I can imagine that they did a lot of soul searching and thoughts about You know, and that's why I mentioned this notion. The ends justify the means. You know, like we'll bring the war to a closure.

[74:31]

And that justifies, you know, I remember reading somewhere, I don't know if it was both times, but one of the times was left in pristine condition. They didn't vomit at all. So when they drop the atomic bomb on it, the contrast of being in pristine state of being and then being utterly obliterated would be much more evident. My own notion is that when we become violent, any one of us, when we get lost in our anger, And aggression. That aggressiveness. Becomes more plausible.

[75:32]

If we wanted to play what if we could say. What if Truman had contacted the military generals. In Japan and said. We now have a weapon. That could obliterate. Your cities. One after another. And we'll drop it in the. In the middle of the Pacific. So you can see. I'm not bluffing. And you know. But they did what they did. Because they were under the conditions. They were under. And I would say we need to approach that with some humility, that we don't know exactly what was going on. And we can certainly quote statistics, you know. You know, it would be, to my mind, it would be absolutely foolish to say the Japanese were blameless victims, you know.

[76:44]

They didn't do a single thing inappropriately. No. They were lost in the mad dog of war. And this is... When we get in, when I say we, in this sentence, I mean all of us on the planet. You know, when we get into these ferocious attacks on each other and violence, I think it just brings out a very primitive aggression. And it would be kind of foolish to say, well, if that hadn't have happened, this wouldn't have happened. We wouldn't have needed to do that.

[77:44]

I think. The complexities of war. And most wars are complex. There's a variety of. Issues. And history that led up to them. And. Drew nations into them. And without. being able to decipher all that and come to some conclusion that we know is right. I think right and wrong in, in terms of global tragedies, you know, is, is not the most important detail. It's like, how do we practice with it? You know, how do we bring a level of clarity, wisdom, intelligence and kindness to the whole situation?

[78:54]

And. And I would say. What does it take for us to learn our lessons? No. And that. You know, the perennial question for us, you think. Why didn't we stop war when. When the Romans were defeated in the fourth century. But we didn't. And it looks like we haven't stopped it now, you know, is. Russia and Ukraine. Battle away and draw in all the nations of the West and. Polarize the nations of. Other country, other countries who are siding with Russia.

[79:58]

This this is. This is our world, you know. And and still. What is it to practice with it? that brings us to our time okay um we'll do the formal exit okay well maybe i'll read you this poem again something in me thinks um Okay, this world, with all its ferociousness, and still, and still there's beauty. And still there's virtue.

[81:03]

And still there's reason to consider. We can still bring our best to it. It's not an utterly futile thing. I would suggest to you, well, if we don't bring our best to it, what shall we bring to it? our worst, our apathy, or the way in which each of us can get utterly absorbed in ourself. To my mind, bringing our best to it is how we discover path of liberation. And maybe this is what David White is calling his bright home.

[82:07]

This is my bright home in which I live. This is where I ask my friends to come. This is where I want to love all the things and people It has taken me so long to learn to love. This is the temple of my adult aloneness. And I belong to that aloneness as I belong to life. There is no house like the house of belonging. Thank you. Welcome everyone to Beginner's Mind Temple.

[84:48]

It's really delightful to see a packed house on a Saturday morning. My name is Kay. I'm the head of the meditation hall, and I'd like to share a few announcements with you. The first is that please join us for meditation. We have regular morning zazen at 540 in the morning and evening zazen at 540 in the afternoon. And the door on Laguna Street is open, and the public is welcome. Let's see what else. If you're newer to meditation, newer to zazen, we have zazen instruction most Saturdays. It's at 8.40 in the morning. Ellen led zazen instruction this morning, and Ellen will also lead... Zendo forms instruction right after this talk. So if you're unsure or unfamiliar with how to move in the Zendo space downstairs, Ellen will be leading a group around that.

[86:01]

And our next half-day beginner sitting will be on August 27th. This is from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m., And then we have a one-day sitting, a full day of zazan coming up on Saturday, August 19th. This coming week, there will be no public Dharma talks. We'll be closed starting Wednesday night through Saturday for our summer residence retreat. So it's a chance for us who are residents to kind of turn inwardly and practice together. And so the next public talk will be a week and a half from today. We're in the midst of our Beginner's Mind Temple renewal campaign. It's an effort to renovate this beautiful 100-year-old building. There is a workshop this afternoon on the Zen of Breathing workshop that Paul Heller will be leading.

[87:04]

My understanding is that workshop is full and it has a waiting list. but maybe some folks are here who will be staying on and attending that. Part of the renewal campaign is a fundraising event. So if you'd like to support the temple and support the renovation and increasing accessibility of this building, please consider making a donation. We have a public lunch today. So at noon, By donation, lunch will be served, and you all are welcome to stay for that. In the meantime, there is tea and cookies in the courtyard, so please stick around. And as we depart, if folks could return the kush of the racks, and I think we'll keep the... Actually, does anyone know, is the workshop happening in this space or in the dining room?

[88:10]

It's happening here. Okay. Let's keep this row of chairs in the room for the workshop, but the rest of the chairs can go back to the dining room. And I believe there's an announcement from our urban gate Sangha. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. My name is Craig and I'm a member of San Francisco Zen Center. Many people People participate here at Zen Center occasionally. They like to come on Saturdays, and I know a lot of you are here today. And some people come on weekday evenings to practice Zazen. We also have classes and workshops and all of that. So when we think of San Francisco Zen Center, we don't think of San Francisco Zen Center as the priests and the residents who live here in the building. or any of the surrounding buildings, but it's the local practitioners.

[89:13]

It's all of us. And Urban Gate Sangha, which you can read about on our website by typing into the search field Urban Gate Sangha when you're on that website, will describe how we are trying to have an ongoing Saturday morning program that begins at 8.50 on Saturdays. That is most Saturdays. And also invitations to join the local practitioners in Zazen and also on Wednesday nights, a Dharma talk. And we are available to invite you to participate in all of the forums and all of the ways that manifest and make up this Sangha. So when you are hearing the beautiful Densho bell ringing from downstairs, you too can ring that bell. And we can show you how that's done. And the wooden Han that calls people to meditation in its welcoming way, you can learn that too.

[90:15]

You can do that. So please investigate Urban Gate Sangha and read about it on our website. And I think the coordinator for that is Catherine Spaeth. And you can see her email address on the website also. This is Catherine. Thank you very much. And I might add that I think folks in the Urban Gate Sangha are meeting in the art lounge for lunch. So if you're interested in finding out more, you're welcome to join them. Okay. Have a wonderful rest of your day and thank you all so much for coming.

[90:54]

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