Good morning and welcome everyone. My name is Tova Green. I'm the acting head of practice, or TATO, and it's my great pleasure to introduce our speaker this morning, Meg Levy. Meg has been a resident at City Center, Green Gulch Farm, and Tassajara Zen Mountain Center for many years, and currently she is the head priest at Stone Creek Zen Center in Sebastopol. Sebastopol, our northern neighbor. So welcome back.

[17:49]

Thank you very much, Tova. It's so nice to see very familiar faces and very new faces. So I'm very happy to be here with everyone and happy that you are here. I was listening to... a talk that was recorded from July with Abbot Mako and she was at one point talking about my little wires set up here talking about home a sense of home and that sometimes when people come here or to a Zen practice place there's a feeling of oh home maybe in a a new way, a different way, but yet a very familiar way. And it made me remember a similar feeling that I had when I first encountered Zen practice when I was living in Berkeley.

[19:06]

And I was going through some personal loss of relationship and suffering and had a very clear thought, like, I need a church. And I'd grown away from the Methodist church that I had grown up in. But being in Berkeley, I had a lot of choices. And I went to see the Unitarians and the Quakers and a Korean Zen Center. And then somebody said, oh, yeah, there's this place called the Berkeley Zen Center. You might check it out. So I remember going and, you know, it looks a lot similar to this. And someone showed me how to sit, just like 40 minutes facing the wall. It's like, okay, go. And then we got up and survived that somehow and got up and there was a service. And it was probably Sojun Mel Weitzman Roshi was probably the doshi. And I remember thinking... this is really strange.

[20:08]

Like, this is really foreign. But when we did the full prostrations, just as I did here, and I remembered it when I was just doing that, touching the head to the forehead, which I had never thought of doing in my life. As soon as that touch happened and lifting the hands, I had this profound sense of homecoming and kind of relief. And I thought, I don't know what this is, but I want to find out. So I think of that as kind of a window opening and some feeling of, oh, but I'd like to go through the door. And that took a little time. I think that was in 1991. I was in my mid-twenties. And... Various things happen, touching in and out of practice in different parts of the world.

[21:10]

And then three years later is when I ended up dropping into a practice period at Green Gulch and then going to Tassajara. And then things kind of rolled, rolled from there. But that touch, when something opens, when you go, ooh, what's that? the possibility of actually turning towards that, of exploring. What is this? And so if you turn towards that, if you find your way to a door or the door opens, what does that, what does a life of walking through the door look like, feel like. And it's not just, I think, one walking through the door and like, oop, through the door, done.

[22:13]

They say Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. So we're continually walking through that door. And the advantage of living in a practice place like this or repeating chants over and over, over years, is when you start thinking about things, certain quotations or teachings kind of bubble up by themselves to the surface. And what bubbled to the surface was Dogen. When Dharma does not fill your body and mind, you think it is already sufficient. going about your life all is fine when dharma fills your body and mind you understand that something is missing when dharma fills your your mind your body and mind you understand that something is missing

[23:17]

I think something like that happened to me in that bow. Like, I knew I needed something, but in the bow, something opened that I wasn't expecting. It's like, oh, this is in the world. This is an experience. And from there, there's this metaphor of being like a boat in an ocean. He says, for example, when you sail out in a boat in the midst of an ocean where no land is in sight and view the four directions, the ocean looks circular and does not look in any other way. So imagine that, okay? So you're in a boat, you're in the middle of the ocean, you look around, someone says, what's reality? It's like one big flat circle. That's obvious, right? He says, but the ocean is neither round nor square. Its features are infinite in variety. It is like a palace.

[24:31]

It is like a jewel. It only looks circular as far as you can see at that time. All things are like this. So if you imagine being in that boat and looking around and seeing the horizon and the water and your boat and that's your life and that's reality and it's obvious, But then suddenly someone gives you scuba diving equipment and you go in and you're like, oh my God, look at those fish. Look at that coral. And then if someone gives you a microscope, you're like, oh my God, what are these? And you realize you will never comprehend the complexity and the interrelatedness and the livingness like a palace, like a jewel all around you. And he says, all things are like this, even in a drop of water, even beneath your feet.

[25:36]

So our human brains can't really comprehend all this. I think it's very, very important to be humble about human, being human, and the limitations, and great potential, but also limitations of our human processing. So there is wild complexity going on all the time that we can just barely touch. And what is it to, you know, and even if you could to grasp the particular complexities of things even like in that one atom there's not a there there to touch and hold on to so what is it to have some calling or intention to open to a more everyday awareness of this reality and what does it matter

[26:51]

And it's not academic. We can think about it intellectually and talk about it. But what does it mean to open to living into that? And of course, it's not only the things or environments around us, it's us too. We're intimately part of this vast living complexity. And there seems to be something about Zen practice and sitting down that creates a portal for this opening. I was recently at Tassajara for Zen Mountain Center for Sangha Week, which was really great. And so small groups have been invited to go down during the summer to participate in the residential schedule of... sitting and working and eating and doing some dharma study together.

[27:56]

And, you know, especially for people who are not living at a residential center, I know the people in my sangha were so appreciative, one, the practice and the practice field, but also how people could relate to each other. It's like, oh, we're so much closer as a sangha now, having a chance to live in a practice field like that. But I was wondering, you know, well, okay, we had a few meetings in the afternoons and we were going to study something. And I thought, what should we study? And I went to the library at Tassajara, which is very small and truly is one of my favorite places in the entire world. It really is. And there's a loft. I recommend you go up in the loft. And I've spent many, many hours there over many years. And I was looking through the shelf. I'm like, okay, what do I study? What do I offer? And... I had an idea, but I went to the shelf with Suzuki Roshi's books, and one in particular just sort of stood out to me.

[28:57]

So I took it out, which is not always so. So Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind was the, as you probably know, the first one and probably most widely known. But I realized I had never really spent time with this book. But it kind of called me, and I looked, and I said, well, when did this come out? It's been out for a long time. It came out in 2002. And I thought, well, how did I miss that? And then I knew how I missed that. Because in 2002, someone might remember in this room, my daughter was one years old, one year old, and we lived here. And I have a few very distinct memories from that time. One, I remember Shohaku Okamura sensei was... teaching a class on Dogen, I'm not sure what exactly, but I really wanted to go to this. And I was holding my daughter in a sling kind of thing, and we were in the Buddha hall trying to listen to this, and she kept crying.

[30:01]

And so I found myself like, everybody was in here listening to the Dharma, and I was like wandering the halls with this crying baby. And it was so frustrating, I remember that. Like, oh, right. But then there were other really wonderful... Memories, too, where the bells right over there, when she was a baby, she would crawl around on the tatami when it was all empty and ring the bells. I really wish I had a video of that. I would give a lot for a video of that. So life is complex, a complexity. And I'm sure there was a Dharma teaching, too, in walking the halls with the crying baby. And where is the Dharma? Is the Dharma in the Buddha hall? Is the Dharma caring for the child? But back to this book. So it kind of brought itself out to say, here, take me. And then there were several other Sangha groups there. And Steve Weintraub, who has a group from San Francisco, gave a Dharma talk.

[31:08]

And he pulled out this book. And he said, oh, we've been, I think he said, if I got it right, I think he said, our group has been studying this for 12 years. I thought, wow. And then... Catherine Stark, who has a group in Sonoma, also gave a talk. And she said, oh, I was really worried when Steve brought this book out because that's the book that I want to talk about. And then yesterday I went to visit someone, a Zen friend, and I mentioned this. And he said, oh, I've been reading this every night. It's so great. So I don't know what's in the air, but this seems to be coming up. And there's one essay in particular that was standing out here. to me which is letters from the world of emptiness letters from the world of emptiness and he says although we have no actual written communication from the world of emptiness we have some hints

[32:17]

or suggestions about what is going on in that world. And that is, you might say, enlightenment. When you see plum blossoms or hear the sound of a small stone hitting bamboo, that is a letter from the world of emptiness. So I'm curious if you've had any letters from the world of emptiness lately maybe it was a plum blossom maybe it was a stone heating bamboo but you kind of have to have a whole set up for that of sweeping and bamboo and you know but maybe it was something else maybe it was something in nature driving here I looked over and I was passing by a field and there was a great blue heron just right there. And I was driving past and he was gone.

[33:18]

And I thought, oh, is that a letter from the world of emptiness? But maybe it's something you read or maybe it's something the way someone looked at you. A moment that just made you stop and ask, huh, there's more than this just circular horizon I've been seeing. What is it? And given that this is called, you know, the essay is called Letter from the World, Letter from Emptiness, World of Emptiness, I know people here with a wide range of familiarity of Buddhist terms and such But, you know, this word emptiness shows up a lot. And it's kind of a tricky word.

[34:20]

And they're sort of acknowledged, like, this is a problematic translation, but other translations don't seem to quite get it either. And it doesn't quite mean what it sounds like. You can think emptiness can start to sound like a void or something over there, the void, a thing. A nothingness. And that doesn't sound terribly appealing. At least in my understanding, this sense of emptiness, and again, words are limited, but empty meaning a description of how things are. And that any particular thing... The classic example usually is a cup, probably because people are sitting in places like I'm sitting, and they look around for something to talk about, and they go, oh, a cup, right? A cup, you know, the sense that the cup is empty of inherent, unchanging existence.

[35:26]

So it's functioning as a cup right now, but if it broke into 15 pieces, would that be a cup? Where did the cup go? You know, if you think of a car, like a car out there, you know, you put a down payment on a car, it's a thing, it's real, of course I have a car. But if someone took that car apart and laid everything out, it's like, where's the car? It's functioning as a car in our mind, in our day-to-day. We have to do this to get through the world, to make the world. But there's also remembering like, oh, but things aren't really settled and unchanging and solid. Not really. And we get into trouble when we forget that and start acting like they are. What? That disappeared? But it wasn't really there in a permanent way to start with. And then, of course, that extends to us as a human being. Me. Yeah, I'm me. And you are you.

[36:27]

But you're also not you. You are arising of many, many factors. changing, growing, different. My daughter's quite different now at 22 from when she was crawling around here. Same? Yes. Different? Yes. And I think the proposition here is the more we can harmonize with this, the more we can open to and not just intellectually understand it, but in our bones, in our body, in our knowing, in our not knowing, the more we can harmonize with this. the better things go. The more openness, the more care, the less suffering. Because we're harmonizing with how things actually are versus fighting that. And again, in this particular talk, he says, shikantaza, just sitting, is to practice or actualize emptiness.

[37:32]

Shikantaza is to practice or actualize emptiness. And he says, although you can have a tentative understanding of it through your thinking, you should understand emptiness through your experience. You should understand emptiness, or another side of it is this vast interconnectedness, interco-arisingness. through your experience. You think that emptiness and being are opposites. So we think emptiness, void, nothingness, and then being. And he says, but in Buddhism, both of these are ideas of being. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. It's just, what's your angle? How are you looking? What's your view? But it's the same arising. And this phrase is like, you know, the harmony of difference and unity.

[38:41]

Not two, not one. Or it says leaping clear of the many and the one. So you may go to a practice place and encounter practice, chanting, bowing, etc., and think, oh, the practice is over there, and regular life is over here. But the deeper you go into practice, the more you realize, oh, yeah, that starts to pervade, realizing that the daily life is not different from the practice center life. This just helps highlight it. It's like putting a big highlight to create all this and bow and everything creates a big highlighter. Hey, pay attention. But then you realize, oh, that's just expedient means. It's everything. He says, besides the world which we can describe, there is another kind of world.

[39:44]

All descriptions of reality are limited expressions of the world of emptiness. yet we attach to the descriptions and think they are reality. This is a mistake because what is described is not the actual reality. And when you think it is reality, your own idea is involved. That is an idea of self. I think there's a phrase from Kategori Roshi, maybe in a book, that says, you know, you have to say something. Right? And at the same time, you have to remember it's not going to reach it. It's not actually reality. It's not a full description. But it's the best we can do. And our bodhisattva vows also compel us to like, okay, we're going to use words and concepts and ideas. But remember, we're always pulling the rug out from them a little bit too. And he says, even the words of the Buddha are just a letter from the world of emptiness.

[40:47]

Just a suggestion. or some help from Buddha. Not to attach to those either. You know, so again, is there some opening, some letter winging its way to you? I had a, I mentioned, you know, in starting to think about this, that Dharma things kind of bubble up. if you expose yourself to them enough, but cultural things do too. And what came to mind was Harry Potter getting his letter of acceptance, letters of acceptance from Hogwarts, and them all pouring in, you know, quite unexpected. And I think we've all been accepted, even though we didn't know we applied. And we're all receiving our acceptance letters all the time. But are they reaching us?

[41:48]

At some point maybe you start noticing, oh, was that a letter for me? Maybe I need to go to the Zen Center and somebody needs to show me how to sit down or to bow. And how does this actually show up in this question of being human, you know, and living a true human life? I was reading... a wonderful book about the life of Deepa Ma, so a woman living a very ordinary life in India. I think she had a Burmese background, a Theravadan tradition, and she had experienced great loss and suffering in her life, losing parents, husband, children. And it's said she was mentally and physically very disabled from that. But she encountered practice and really turned towards it and seemed to have an affinity for it.

[43:03]

And she probably wouldn't have used the word shikantaza, different angle from practice, but she had great insight and she became an important teacher for several Vipassana teachers who've been very influential in the West. But it said that people would come to her with all their stories. And she continued to live in a very modest apartment with her daughter and other family, and people would find their way to her. And so she listened to all these stories about problems and showed great compassion. But she also saw that there's a lot of unnecessary suffering because of the stories we tell ourselves and attach to. Does that sound familiar? Any stories you tell that you attach to that create suffering? And that we mistake our ideas and our stories for the full reality. And so in this particular incident, someone came to tell her and was telling her everything that was wrong in their life and she actually laughed and she said, this problem you are facing is no problem at all.

[44:16]

It is because you think this is mine. It is because you think there is something for me to solve. Don't think in this way and then there will be no trouble. You think this is mine, my life, my problem. I've got to solve it. What do I do? But what's the alternative? How do we develop a freedom from believing all of the stories that our mind weaves? You have to notice them, learn from them, but not get trapped by them. I get trapped in my stories all the time. And most of the time, if I'm trapped in a story, it's not terribly fun. But sometimes there are other ways of thinking that I can turn to that help. A question I ask a lot... is simply what wants to happen?

[45:20]

What wants to happen in any given situation? And that takes it away from my particular ideas of it should happen this way, or I want it to happen this way, or I'm going to force it to happen this way. And it opens it up to this whole field, this whole field of interbeing, interconnectedness, interdependence. What are the causes and conditions that are arising? and knowing that I or any of us can never really do anything by ourselves. So if I let go just a little bit of my thoughts and my stories, and I open more widely, what's arising in the field? What can I respond to? And maybe it's very active, it's not just passive, but it's a harmonizing again, a listening, a setting aside my ideas. Suzuki Roshi says, when you are able to sit experiencing shikantaza, then the meaning of your life will be completely different.

[46:28]

When you are able to sit experiencing shikantaza, then the meaning of your life will be completely different. You will have freedom from everything. It's a pretty tall claim. You will have freedom from everything. course we sit and maybe there's a taste of that spaciousness that freedom maybe we're caught in our minds but maybe we have that that taste and then of course we have to get up is it different can that freedom continue and so what kind of life practice supports this remembering living on this edge of knowing and not knowing. Living with questions can be very helpful. One of my first summers at Tassajara, my root teacher, Tenshin, Reb Anderson, had come down.

[47:43]

I was there and leading some retreats. And I, you know, I, being a new and earnest Zen student, I wanted to know, what is a good Zen student? And so I saw him kind of going down a path, and I sort of caught up with him, and I asked him, you know, teacher, what is a good Zen student? And he turned and he said, yes. He said, what is a good Zen student? Who is a good Zen student? How? is a good sin student. He tended to avoid why, because why often will get us locked in on a story. But to live into these questions of what? What? What? What? Who? Who? Who? How? How? How? What if that's our life, living into that question? Then everything is fresh, because we don't know.

[48:46]

there's a place like this that arises. And I must say, having just joined a Zen center that went through a major, much extended renovation that took a lot of effort and a lot of dedication that I kind of came in at the end of appreciating, wow, this place exists and has existed for all of these decades. What it takes to keep it going so we can come talk like this. It's kind of amazing. actually very amazing. And I know there's a big renovation coming up here. It takes a lot of physical effort in the world, a lot of doing. But can we still remember those questions of what? Who? How? And to be able to come to a place where so much is cared for and It's like a field of practice where everything is going, hello, hello, remember, remember, bow, bells, chants, people making nice meals, sharing them, you know, and engaging in work practice and learning like, oh yeah, work isn't just work.

[50:18]

Work is also showing up fully. And so then maybe when you... when you step back into your regular work, whatever that may be, it's like, oh, that's not different either. How is this an expression of my full life, my full calling? How do I really want to show up here? There's working with Sangha, Sangha being one of the triple treasure along with Buddha and Dharma. And I love the paradox too. It said, you know, that people in a Sangha should be like milk and water, just fully blending and harmonizing. but also it said that monks in a monastery are like rocks in a tumbler. They like keep bumping into each other. So it's also a place where we kind of get to see ourselves and smooth away our rough edges and not run away. Dharma study, working with and being seen by a teacher, ritual, sitting.

[51:20]

And if you have a chance to sit sashin, to sit a longer time of practice, sometimes that helps a lot. You know, it's important to have daily practice, but to be able to fully let go and be supported. And the schedule supports that. Like I remember going back to Tassajara after being away, and there's a very particular schedule, and it sort of takes away the question of what should I do next? And I knew I wanted to go to Tassahara. I had been to Tassahapara before. I wanted to follow the schedule. And I got there, and I'm like, ick, I don't want to go to Zazan. Or, you know, do I really have to take a bath at a certain time? I was like, eh, eh, eh. And I was like, this is interesting. But then, after some period of time, I just gave up. I just let go. I just surrendered. And within that, there was so much freedom. just to flow for that period of time, to let go of my ideas and preferences and be carried.

[52:28]

And something like that happens with Sashin too. It's like the bell rings, you come to the Zendo, it's time to eat, it's time to rest, just to open and relax some of our normal efforting and scheduling. It's a great gift. You know, they say Sashin is a time to diligently care for and collect body and mind in one suchness. It is an opportunity to discover anew, clarify and actualize our ultimate concern. So this balance of daily practice out in the world is really no different and what happens when you drop in an intensive way. How do those different levels all work together? so that you are more receptive to the letters from emptiness that are coming all the time. I also heard someone refer to Sashin as sacred, and I think that's not a word that we usually use around here so much, sacred.

[53:33]

But I looked up sacred, and from Britannica Dictionary, it says, the power, being, or realm understood by religious persons... I guess that's us. To be at the core of existence and to have a transformative effect on their lives and destinies. To be at the core of existence and to have a transformative effect on their lives and destinies. It's no small thing that we're sitting here. It's no small thing that you found your way through this door. is a transformative effect happening right now. I just want to add in another essay or talk, Suzuki Roshien's book is mentioning the importance of

[54:50]

Warm-hearted zazen. Warm-hearted zazen. Warm heart, warm zazen. Sometimes it can seem a little austere, a little cool. Do they really smile at the Zen Center? Oh, I saw a smile. He says, the warm feeling we have in our practice is, in other words, enlightenment. And he said, or Buddha's mercy. Buddha's mind. Again, mercy is not a word that we usually use here. But what is it to have this warm-heartedness in our practice as we're sitting ourselves on the cushion but also as we interact with each other and the world? I was reading a description of someone who had gone to practice at Genpo Abbey with Pema Chodron some time ago and really taught being struck by the warmth and the care and the concern that that was really part of the field in a very real way.

[56:01]

And hearing of a Tibetan teacher who really talked about Buddhist teachings saying the common denominator is love. This is the essence of the Buddhist teachings. And again, we don't use that word so much, love. But we might want to re-adopt it. And we say compassion. And that's important, wisdom and compassion. Incredibly important. But what about, what do we mean if we bring in the word love? What if we walked around for a while thinking, oh, that's what we're doing here. We're practicing love. Would that change anything? Would it change what we pay attention to? Or if you walk around in your life thinking, I'm practicing love. That's my main practice. But love in the context of emptiness, the kind of love that you realize, oh, even though I love this person, that I can't hold on to this person.

[57:04]

This person is way more than I can even comprehend. What does a love like that look like? There's practicing in the practice place, maybe diving in for a while. Getting cooked. I always like that metaphor too. You get cooked. Cooked in the cauldron of Sashin for a while. But then you come out and there's this phrase after people have been living in a center for a while and there's a ceremony to acknowledge this is a transition. And you say, so-and-so returns to the marketplace with gift-bestowing hands. I always love that.

[58:06]

Gift-bestowing hands. And also, very importantly, gift-receiving hands. Realizing this interchange that's the heart of everything. and you are able to sit experiencing shikantaza, then the meaning of your life will be completely different. You will have freedom from everything. So what shifts, you know, as you go out and about your day in the world, Maybe you connect with someone. Maybe it's a cashier at the grocery store. You see something in their eyes.

[59:09]

They see something in your eyes. There's a moment. What was that? Or you see a great blue heron. Or you turn and ask someone how they are. What helps us remember? So just simply remembering that letters from the world of emptiness are coming all the time. And can we receive them? Thank you. So I think what happens now is we have time for discussion, Q&A. If you want to stand up and stretch, you're most welcome to. After a little while of this, I think there is tea in the courtyard. Is that right? That's right.

[60:26]

If you have a question, please raise your hand, either in person or online, and we'll... bring the microphone over to you. Thank you for your talk. Thank you so much. As you were talking, I was thinking about how letters from emptiness are coming from someplace to someplace. And it struck me as, well, and then you were talking about how Sashin and following the schedule generated emptiness. And I thought to myself, is it, and how do you think about this, that letters from emptiness are only received in emptiness? And that address is always kind of moving? And I wonder if you could say something about, they're coming all the time, but how are we receiving them? Or what variety?

[61:27]

Or is it so that we have to be in emptiness to receive them? What do you think? Well, they surprise me sometimes. And in my work of building things, I would ask, what does this confusing problem want? And then in the shower or something, it comes. And so I guess what I think is that they're going to surprise you. Thank you. And of course, all metaphors, there's not really a place over there that letters are coming from. But I think there is something of maybe a pointing to that moment of, if we are caught in a more limited view, that moment of opening and realizing, oh, that's what we're going to call the letter.

[62:33]

letter from emptiness, but it's not really like things are different. But is there an opening to that connection, to that shifting in view? So you're not saying that we receive the letters? Limited language to say we receive and may be useful temporarily. Thank you. So I applaud all efforts to reclaim the word love. But I wanted to ask, and it's very similar to his question, I wanted to ask, what do you think is the source of that? The source of what could you say exactly? Of what you're calling love. Oh, the source of love. I've heard love, some people, you know, once I heard love being another word for love,

[63:39]

Interdependence. Itself. That this... Yeah. Again, it's a multifaceted word. But I think it has an experiential quality that at least we think we can all recognize because that's why pretty much... Every Zen teacher on the planet is trying to reclaim it. Tell me more about that. What are you seeing? What I see is people talking about... When they're intellectual about it, they usually pull out the multiple interpretations of the word love. But fundamentally, they seem to be pointing... at an experience that feels familiar to me too, and I'm just curious what you think the source of that is, that's all.

[64:48]

It's so interesting, the sense of this, what is the source of love? I feel like that's the thing that we really can't put language on top of. But also recognizing our deep interdependence. Deep interdependence. It's the emotional baseline of Shikantaza. Emotional baseline of Shikantasa. That would be worth exploring. That's interesting. Thank you. We do have time for a couple more questions.

[65:52]

just curious how many people actually are here for the first time how was it i'm just curious like it's because i'm just thinking i'm sorry to put you or you or whoever on the spot but i'm just remembering my again when i mentioned that coming in berkeley's answer i'm like what the heck is this i'm just wondering what are you experiencing if you don't mind sharing are you willing yeah yeah that'd be great hi everyone so I think a little maybe similarly to your story that you shared at the beginning today, I come from this very... A little bit closer up, yeah. I come from a conservative Christian upbringing that I have since stepped away from. And there's something kind of profound about stepping back into a spirituality that feels like I can claim as my own now. intentionally consciously there's something really um moving about that that i don't really know how to speak about um so i feel really grateful for the space that's been really warm and welcoming and safe feeling and um yeah so just um have enjoyed kind of dipping a toe into what feels new and sort of familiar in different ways but much

[67:36]

safer than other versions of a space like this that I've known. So feeling really appreciative. Well, thank you so much for sharing. And I know there's a certain courage to... what is this? And to walk into this big building and like, yeah, yeah. So appreciation for everyone new, but I think most of us were new at some point. So appreciation for everyone's courage and like listening, you know, maybe there was a letter from emptiness and like, okay, it's, it's, I'm following the letter. It says in the letter to like, go to 300 page street. So, okay, I'll do what I'm instructed, you know, but there's a courage in that. You can always say, let's do that next year or take a, 20 year detour or whatever it is, so welcome. Thank you. This is my first day as well.

[68:36]

Hi, welcome. Thank you. I was just wondering if you... And what is your name? Dana. Dana. And what was your name? Lauren. Wonderful. Thank you, Dana. Do you have any advice for a beginner? keep showing up just keep showing up and the practice will work itself and reveal itself and just be curious and also trust your intuition and heart you know don't go again if something really doesn't feel right trust yourself yeah thank you and i'll say just in a part of showing up is to to find ways that practice can start to integrate in your life in a regular way And sitting with other people is really helpful. You know, a lot of people, I also work with people outside of Dharma settings, and it's hard to say, go sit on your own. So if there's a schedule, a way you can get it into your schedule to come once a week or whatever, or daily, or listen to Dharma talks even online, just something that helps make that part of just your life.

[69:39]

And then it starts to weave into the fabric and you can continue to explore. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Good to see you. Nice to be here with you in this room. I discovered a letter from emptiness at the Museum of Modern Art here. The story goes that there was a young Rauschenberg, an emerging artist in New York, and he went to visit a famous artist, de Kooning, and asked him what his concept of emptiness was. De Kooning apparently said, why... They talked for a while, and he said, I don't really have anything. But he gave Rauschenberg one of his drawings as a gift. And the piece that's in the Museum of Modern Art here is, over a period of time, Rauschenberg erased the de Kooning drawing. And Phyllis Wattis bought it, and it's framed, and it says, erased de Kooning drawing.

[70:43]

Oh, how interesting. So I always think of that as a kind of artistic example of that. Beautiful. But that letter from the world of emptiness is one of my favorite quotes of that book, for sure. And I imagine I hear the sound of a rock hitting bamboo or the ripple in the water or the blossom, like when all the naked ladies came out in August up in Sonoma, the amaryllis. I always think of that as because they emerge and then they bloom and then they just disappear. Yeah, we're all blooming, emerging, disappearing, blooming, emerging, disappearing, and probably our whole world is blooming, emerging, and disappearing. So this is our individual life, but also all of that's happening around us. This provides some spaciousness potentially, but not removal. So thank you for sharing that. I've been meaning to get down there too, so hopefully I'll go, maybe I'll go see it. Thank you.

[71:44]

Hi, Richard. Hi, Meg. Thank you for your talk. You're welcome. Thank you. I've always thought of a letter from emptiness as, you know, the yin-yang symbol. I love that symbol, but I've never thought of it as a letter from emptiness. But I think it kind of is how sort of emptiness and fullness swirl around each other. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, these symbols. Someone's like, how do I start to manifest this or have a hint or, you know, some manifestation, and these kings have come down to us and have power, and then there can be new expressions, as we were hearing here too. But I like that, yeah, the yin-yang and the way they overlap, that harmony and difference, difference of harmony and sameness, excuse me, difference and unity, they go together.

[72:53]

Yeah, definitely. And also what you said about emptiness, about sort of knowing it through our experience. Yeah. And I've often thought that you can know what a thing is by knowing its opposite. You just know it in a different way, kind of. So that might be another... letter from emptiness. But thank you for your talk. You're welcome. Thank you. Meg, thanks very much for your talk. I was struck by the way you kept referring back to the heron you saw on your way here. And I think of, there are certain birds I think of as letters from emptiness, hummingbirds, and pelicans when they're flying in formation, and how important birds are in our lives.

[74:04]

And I just saw there was a whole section of the Science Times about birds this week and all the ways in which birds are suffering because of the climate change. And I just wondered if you might say anything about birds as letters of emptiness, if it resonates with you. Thank you. What comes to mind is not birds in particular, but I do feel, I think it's not an accident that the two examples that he gave were nature images, because I think connecting to the cycles, to the beauty, to the interconnectedness that is nature, what we call nature, of course, which we're not really separate from, is very important. And in work I'm doing in various forms, I'm trying to bring in some nature element in almost everything I'm doing and getting people outdoors.

[75:09]

Because I do think that opens us from our little sort of mouse runs of, this is my world, this is my world, this is my world. But birds. I live just north of Sebastopol, and it's fairly wooded. And I heard, had my window open, and I heard a great horned owl. And I kind of woke up, and it was 2.30 in the morning. And I've lived in this particular place about a year. But I was awake. And sometimes I'll open the door and just go outside. Like, that's one thing I loved living at Tassajara in my cabin. It didn't have a bathroom. In a way, it was a real pain. But on the other hand, you go out, and you're like, oh, my God, you know, the world, the stars. So I opened the door, and usually I would just, like, look out and go, oh, pretty night, and close the door. But this particular night... I went outside, and we have an outdoor couch that sort of sits in the front yard. And it's, again, a pretty quiet neighborhood.

[76:11]

And so I just sat down there with my robe around me, you know, bathrobe, and listened to the owl. And it was so... alive out there at 2.30 in the morning. You know, I could hear, and my own animal body was very alert. Oh, what's that rustle? You know, is it safe that it's alive? And the moon was super bright, and I heard some rustling, and then a gray fox started yawping, which, you know, they have this yawp kind of feeling, and it was just so alive, and I thought, it's taken me a whole year of living here. to open to the aliveness of the night that's around me and part of it all the time. Just like the ocean, you know, like, oh my God, there's what's under there. So I think there is this opening and listening. What is the wider field of life? Not just our human experience. And that takes us directly into this as well.

[77:13]

So thank you for bringing that up. Yeah. That brings us to time. Sounds good. Thank you. Any final words before we chant? This moment will never come again. We're here right now. We'll never be like this again. It's precious. Let's be awake for it. Thank you.

[78:23]

If the Lord is ready to use the power of God, it is the best to go on. I am not ready to get [...] the power of God, it is the best to go on. Thank you all so much for being here.

[80:53]

Welcome to the San Francisco Zen Center. My name is Kay. I'm the head of the meditation hall. A few announcements this morning. Please join us to practice. We have regular morning and evening zazen most days of the week.

[81:13]

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