This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Great to be here. I think you're supposed to say distinguished abbots and former abbots. Thank you for being here. Even Bhatia's here. Well, this morning I would like to dedicate my Dharma talk to Jordan Thorne. Old friend, fellow Zen priest, As Wendy said, he lived here and practiced here for decades, also lived at Green Gulch, Tassajara, and died a little sooner than he would have liked and all of us would have liked.

[01:16]

So in his memory, in his name, thinking of him, I'd like to study with you this morning a sutra from the Pali Canon. I'll begin by telling you the narrative background to this sutra. Once the Buddha was traveling among the Kalama people, and he was organizing himself in his camp outside the town of Kesaputta. This is what the Buddha usually did. He would go to a place and set up a camp outside town, and people from town would come out to visit him. And in this case, his reputation as a wise sage had preceded him, so people were eager to come to his camp. And they had specific advice they were asking for. So they bowed to him and they made the usual formal obeisance.

[02:21]

And then they said the following. There are, Lord... ascetics and Brahmins who come here to Kesaputta, and they explain and they elucidate their own doctrines, but they disparage, debunk, revile, and vilify the doctrines of others. But then some other ascetics come along, and they too explain that. and elucidate their own doctrines, but disparage, debunk, revile, and vilify the doctrines of others. So for us, there is perplexity and doubt as to which of these good ascetics speak the truth and which speak falsehood. So that's what they wanted some advice about.

[03:25]

So the Buddha said to them, And here I'm quoting from the English translation of the Pali. It is fitting for you to be perplexed, O Kalamas. It is fitting for you to be in doubt. In other words, it makes sense that you would be in doubt. Don't go by oral traditions, by lineage of teaching, by hearsay, by a collection of scriptures, by logical reasoning, by inferential reasoning, by reflection on reasons. by the acceptance of a view after pondering it. Don't go by the seeming competence of the speaker or because you think this person is my teacher. Don't judge, in other words, by any of that. But when you know for yourselves these things are blameable, These things are censured by the wise. These things, if undertaken and practiced, lead to harm and suffering.

[04:31]

Then you should abandon those things. And when, on the other hand, you know, these things are wholesome, these things are blameless, these things are practiced by the wise, these things, if undertaken and practiced, lead to welfare and happiness, then you should engage in them. He goes on. Kalamas. A person who is greedy, hating and deluded, overpowered by greed, hatred, and delusion, his thoughts controlled by them, that person will destroy life, take what isn't given, engage in sexual misconduct, tell lies, and he will also prompt others to do likewise. What do you think? Will that kind of conduct conduce to harm and suffering for a long time?

[05:38]

And the Kalamas say, yes, yes, it will. Then Kalamas, the Buddha says, that noble disciple, devoid of covetousness, devoid of ill will, unconfused, clearly comprehending, ever mindful, dwells pervading one quarter of the space, one quarter with a mind imbued with loving kindness, one quarter of space with a mind imbued with compassion, one quarter with altruistic joy, one quarter with equanimity, likewise the second quarter and the third quarter and the fourth quarter. When Kalamaz, this noble disciple, has thus made his mind free of enmity, free of ill will, uncorrupted and pure, he has won four assurances in this life.

[06:45]

The first assurance is this. If there is another world, And if good and bad deeds yield fruit in that world, it is possible that with the breakup of the body after death, I shall arise in a good destination in a heavenly world. The second assurance is this. If there is no other world, and if good and bad deeds do not bear fruit and yield results, still, right here, In this very life, I live happily, free of enmity and goodwill. The third assurance is this. Suppose evil befalls the evildoer. Then as I do not intend evil for anyone, how can suffering afflict me, one who does no evil deed?

[07:50]

And the fourth assurance is this. Suppose evil does not befall the evildoer. Then right here, I see myself purified in both respects. In other words, even if there are no consequences for bad actions, still I feel happy, I feel good, knowing that no matter what happens next, in this moment of doing something good, I feel good. I feel happy. I feel good about my life. So that's most of the meat of the sutra. And I'm sure many of you have heard this sutra before because it's one of the most quoted sutras in the Pali canon. And when someone wants to make the point... that the Buddha did not espouse doctrines and theories, that his teaching is practical, and that you should see for yourself.

[08:57]

It's not about faith. You should see for yourself. When someone wants to make that point, they always quote the sutra, showing that the Buddha was pretty free from preconceived doctrines and ideas. And here he says pretty clearly... that no matter how impressive or logical a teaching may be, no matter how much sense it seems to make, no matter how much you agree with it, no matter how much charisma or intelligence the speaker has, no matter how fabulous and storied the ancient tradition from which this teaching comes is, no matter how much faith you might have in that tradition or in that teacher, Even if it's your own teacher, you shouldn't accept the teaching until you confirm it for yourself, confirm that it will lead to good results.

[09:58]

And so the Buddha is implying that spiritual teaching and spiritual practice isn't really about ideas and values. that you agree with or decide by faith or logic are true. It's not really about truth. It's about the results and such teachings and practices that flow from those teachings will have in your own experience of living. And if you're confused about which teachings are true, that's how you can sort it out. You can test and see the impact on your own life. So when you hear a bunch of different teachings, you have a way of understanding which ones to follow. And in the sutra, we learn that good results specifically means a reduction in harm and suffering for yourself and others.

[11:06]

And conversely, an increase in happiness and well-being. And the only way that you can tell whether a teaching has this effect is by your own experience. And that's the point of spiritual teachings. He's sort of also making, by implication, giving a good piece of advice to those of us who would sit up on these raised seats giving spiritual teachings. Probably... it's not a good idea to disparage or debunk the views of others because that just confuses people. Don't do that. There's really no need to debate or refute or make fun of anyone else. Just explain your own views, trusting that people will decide for themselves and they'll figure it out. But anyway, from the point of view of the people receiving these teachings,

[12:12]

the Buddha is saying, you shouldn't have a problem understanding what's right and what's not right. Listen to everyone carefully, try out their recommendations, and judge for yourself. In this way, there's no confusion. So, people often make this point. But there's something else here that usually people don't mention Notice that it says, you should know these teachings are blameless and praised by the wise. Usually that part is overlooked. In other words, the teachings should be verified not only by your own experience that they lead to good results in your life,

[13:13]

But also, and he mentions this part first, before he says that part, he says first, be sure that teachings are acceptable to the community and are confirmed as being positive by the wise. So even though the sutra is always quoted to make the point, the Buddha says, rely on yourself. Actually, he doesn't just say, rely on yourself, because think about it. there is a problem with relying on yourself. Suppose you turn out to be unreliable, right? Are we all all that reliable, really? What if you're not that reliable? What if you happen to have prejudices, blindnesses? What if you happen to have a certain amount of conditioning that won't let you... See for yourself with full accuracy.

[14:17]

What then? And it happens all the time. I think that we're confirming a teaching because we already agree with it. We already think, yeah, that's what I think. So this is a good teaching. I'm going to practice this. It perfectly fits my preconceptions and my lunacy that I had before I came here. So good. Now, is it working? Well, of course it's working. Yeah, it looks like it's working. It's making me feel better about my preconceptions and my delusions. It's working great. In other words, how reliable are we to really examine, honestly, what is going on in our very own lives? Self-deception. is so common that you might even say it's the same thing as being a person.

[15:18]

So to assure that we're seeing clearly, the Buddha says that in addition to our own personal verification, because we are responsible to verify, we're not just going to believe somebody else, that's certainly the Buddha's point. But in addition to our own personal verification, we should check our collective human common sense. Does this sound like a decent idea? Does this sound like something most people will think makes sense and is good? And then he says we should also check the community. We should check the people around us. Does it make sense to the people around us? as a reasonable teaching. And what about the wisest people in the community, people that we respect? If there is somebody that we respect in the community, what is it like for them?

[16:26]

Do they think that this is a good teaching? Do they support it? So the Buddha is definitely putting the responsibility for verifying the teachings on us and asking us not to verify according to standards of absolute truth, or prejudice, but first, by our ascertaining that it is acceptable to the community and to the wise, and then second, actually, he lists second, that we can see positive results in our own lives and in the lives of people around us. Then he talks about, well, now what would these positive effects look like? What do they amount to? Maybe they're not as obvious as they seem. Somebody might say, better health. I'm better looking now that I meditate, or something like that.

[17:28]

I'm more wealthy. But the Buddha said, no, that's not what I mean by good results. And so the Buddha has a dialogue with the Kalamas about what are good results. And he says, when someone is greedy, full of hatred, has a lot of deluded ideas, very likely that person is going to act unwisely. He's going to break all kinds of precepts. And in doing that, he's going to harm other people. He's going to lie. He's going to misuse sexuality. He's going to create all sorts of disturbances and havoc in the community that will be natural to him because his mind is full of greedy and hateful and deluded thoughts, which are certainly going to lead to these kinds of actions. And he says to the Kalamas, when there's somebody in your midst that does this stuff, what happens? Are people around him more happy?

[18:29]

Is that person himself a happy person? Or is there more harm and unhappiness? And the Kalamas say, of course, yeah, yeah, we've seen that, and it's not good. Then the Buddha, as the sutras do, formulaically brings up the opposite case when someone practices mindfulness, when they're careful, when she pays attention to her actions, when she realizes that, yes, she may have all kinds of greedy and deluded feelings, But it doesn't really make a lot of sense to validate those thoughts and act on them. But it's better to notice the thoughts and let them go, be patient with them as much as you can. And instead of encouraging those thoughts and acting on them, which makes them stronger and stronger, do the opposite.

[19:34]

Cultivate the four immeasurables. the four loving attitudes, loving kindness, compassion, sympathetic joy, equanimity. And what happens when somebody practices like that, the Buddha says? Well, that person is going to do far less harmful actions and far more beneficial actions, and she's going to be a lot happier, and people around her, also will be happier. And the more people like that there are in the community, the happier the whole community is going to be. And test this out, he says. Test this and see if that's not true. And also, if you check with other people and you sort of ask them, what do you think is better? Is it better to be greedy and go around doing all these things or is it better to be loving? Pretty much everybody will say, well, no, I think it's better to be loving.

[20:36]

Yeah, that makes sense. And if you ask the wise people in the community, they will also agree. So again, I guess everybody here knows about the four Brahma-viharas, the four immeasurable abodes. When you think about it, they represent one of the most revolutionary aspects of the Buddha's teachings. are saying that you can actually, intentionally, and even somewhat systematically, cultivate beneficial thoughts and attitudes. In other words, you don't necessarily have to be stuck with the thoughts and attitudes that that seem to come naturally to you.

[21:38]

You often hear people say, well, I'm this kind of person. And I always think, really? Are you? Really? Maybe at the moment. But how about tomorrow? People think, you know, I'm like this, I'm like that. You could reinforce being like this, like that, forever. But here the Buddha is saying, actually, human beings have the capacity to be other than that, if they... will cultivate those other qualities. If you practice loving-kindness meditation, you actually can increase your loving-kindness. If you practice compassion intentionally, you can actually increase your capacity to be caring of others and for yourself. Instead of griping when you're in trouble, you can be compassionate toward yourself. if you train your mind that way. If you confront your jealousy or indifference at the good fortunes of others and instead intentionally cultivate joy when others are joyful, you can increase your own joy and happiness by quite a bit.

[22:54]

And if you can little by little even out your mind when it all goes wild with attachment or aversion and confusion... so that you can have compassion, loving kindness, and sympathetic joy more equally for everyone, yourself included, then, little by little, you can actually become a solid, steady, caring person. It's actually possible. So, I hope everybody in this room, I'm sure it's true, has taken the Buddha's advice here. and tried out these meditation practices, not only on your cushions, but in your daily living. And has verified, each one of you, I hope, has verified for yourself the positive effects of these practices. And certainly, as I said, the wise would approve of this. And certainly most people would say, yes, yes, it's definitely a good idea to be kinder.

[24:03]

Very few people would say, yeah, I think you should be a more rotten person. Less caring, less kind. I think that would be better for you. Nobody says that. Even rotten people don't say that. So no matter whether somebody's a Buddhist or what, they could be like whatever they are, they would probably, if you seriously talk to them, they would say, I think, yeah, it would be better to be kinder. more compassionate person. So we can have confidence in these teachings, in these practices. Now perhaps these qualities of kindness, compassion, equanimity are not all that modern or cool. You don't necessarily hear about them everywhere you go. And maybe they don't suit the... profile of role models for our time who are often flawed antiheroes of one sort or another.

[25:12]

These are, you know, modern times. Everything is very mixed up. But even so, even now, even in our times, most people in a serious conversation would probably agree that yes, a loving, and a kind and a supportive person is an admirable person. So next, the Buddha says that if you practice like this, you can count on four things. First, if there's another world, and if in that world good and bad deeds bear fruit, then maybe when you die and the body breaks up, you'll pop up in a heavenly realm. The second assurance is that even if that's not true, and there are no rewards and punishments for good and bad deeds, then right now you'll feel better and your life will be better if you follow these teachings.

[26:18]

And the third assurance, suppose evil befalls the evildoer, then since I'm not intending evil, evil will not befall me. And the fourth assurance, even if evil doesn't befall the evildoer, even now, as it is, I feel good. I feel happy. There is a tremendous satisfaction in caring, in kindness, just by itself. Even if it's disadvantageous to you to be kind, seemingly, if you look, you find that it's happy-making, kindness. So there's something interesting to me in this little part of the sutra. Certainly if you look at the teachings, it seems clear that the Buddha is always, all the time, talking about karma. If this, then that. If you do good, good results happen. If you do bad, bad results happen.

[27:21]

And he seems to be validating here the pre-Buddhist Indian concept of rebirth and heavens and hells, the future states in which... If you don't see good results in this life, the next life you'll see them. If you don't see bad results from your bad conduct in this life, you'll see it in the next life. But here, interestingly, so he says that all the time throughout the sutras, but here he says, what if that isn't true? What if none of that is true? You very seldom see a religious teacher saying, here's my teaching, blah, blah, blah. What if that's not true, though? What if it's not true? Even if it's not true, check and see. Your doing good will be of benefit to you now. We don't need, in other words, theological justifications for doing good. We don't need to know that God requires it of us or that we'll get karmic results if we don't do the right thing.

[28:29]

All we need to do is feel for ourselves right now the happiness that comes from having a loving heart free from blame and fear. That makes a big difference. I think that this is something we can all appreciate. I think you appreciate it more the older you get. I can remember a time in life my life when goodness, per se, is a lot less compelling than adventure and risk and testing the limits. Goodness seems a bit tame, a little uninspiring. And probably the most daring among us will test the limits, take risks, will act out their dreams and fears just to see what happens.

[29:43]

But when you do this for 10 or 15 or 20 or 25 years, it proves to be not so much an adventure anymore. you notice a certain sort of cyclical, repetitive quality to it. It begins to dawn on you that your own inner limitations have actually been ruling you the whole time. You just didn't see it. And you begin to appreciate more and more the deep satisfaction of goodness, of caring, of integrity, of positive relationships, of peacefulness, of understanding. So in this sutra, more or less, the Buddha is teaching mindfulness.

[30:52]

He's teaching the importance of paying close attention. He's teaching precepts. He's teaching... The basic precepts of avoid evil. In other words, watch out for the heart's own confusion which will arise and instead of cooperating with it and going that way, forbear it, suffer it, don't act on it, however compelling it may seem and sometimes it seems very compelling. Sorry. And second, having done that, practiced to some extent, having tamed the mind to some extent, to then extend oneself to do good, which means everything from practicing meditation to supporting Sangha, to study of Dharma, to extending your understanding. And then when you've done that, to go beyond that and develop a motivation to be of benefit to others.

[31:58]

to avoid evil and do good, not just for the benefit that we ourselves will accrue from that, but also to do those things for others, to feel responsible, to act for and with others, and to do this with a profound sense that we will develop in practice, that we and others are empty of evil. alienated self. In other words, quite profoundly and quite literally, we are others and others are us. And we take care of ourselves and others with that same spirit of ultimate concern. And then we... come to feel that when we're behaving this way and seeing the world this way, we are actually becoming who we most truly are and have always been.

[33:03]

So this is pretty basic, right? Pretty straightforward, pretty simple, nothing fancy, no big deal, no aha. Just avoid evil, do good, benefit others. That's it. We don't need, as the Buddha says, complicated doctrines or arguments. We don't need faith or wisdom or anything else to see pretty clearly this is the way to practice. And how do we do it? Well, it's pretty obvious. I think everybody knows how to avoid evil do good and benefit others. We know what to do. It's not a mystery. It's not a big, complicated thing. Notice, and I hate to say this in the Zen Center, You don't even have to practice meditation to do this. There's not a single mention in this whole sutra, right? There's not a single mention of meditation here. You don't have to meditate to do good, avoid evil, and benefit others.

[34:15]

You don't have to meditate. Throughout Buddhist history... the vast, vast majority of people who follow the teachings, including monastics, did not practice too much meditation. It's kind of like an historical and cultural accident that we in the West are thoroughly focused on meditation as being the essence of Buddhism. However... There's always however, right? However, the... paradoxical truth here is that this totally simple embarrassingly simple practice of avoid evil, do good, benefit others which really is actually the main practice of Zen and if you don't believe me you can read about it in Dogen actually is not that easy to do

[35:18]

That's the trouble. And there's a story about this. Once a famous Zen poet and practitioner came to a teacher and asked, as Zen students always ask, what's the main point of the Zen teachings? And the teacher said, just avoid evil, do good, and benefit others. And the poet was very disappointed in this answer. He had expected something a little bit more interesting. So he said to the Zen master, you know, a little girl of seven years old could have told me that. And the teacher said, yes, true. But even a wise old man of 70 can't do it. So in Zen practice, we do appreciate this point. And we're practicing Zazen with full commitment not to achieve... high states of poetic spiritual insight, but to deeply, deeply, deeply infuse the body and mind with the faith, determination, and vision to do as best we can this very simple practice of avoiding evil, doing good, and benefiting others.

[36:39]

Because I think we all understand it doesn't take a whole lot of reflection to see the strengths of our conditioned habits, to see how hard it is to just do good, to just avoid evil, breaking precepts, in other words, being selfish, to just really benefit others. It's so simple, but it's hard to do. And we see that we can't do it because most of our thinking and most of our behavior, most of our speaking, motivated by our wounds and our broken feelings and our desires and our crying, sometimes even screaming needs. And it's very hard to get past all that. So maybe meditation helps us to find a way. And as you know, zazen isn't for us just meditation, it's the whole practice.

[37:47]

Zazen is sitting, standing, walking, lying down. It's sangha, it's awareness itself, it's community, it's friendship, and it is, perhaps most poignantly, and some of you in the room will appreciate this, it is long, long connection in the Dharma that inspires and encourages us all the way to the end of our lives. And I feel that in the world we live in now, with all of its confusion, stress, and difficulty, and all the pain that we are collectively feeling as we begin to notice all the hurting that we've been doing to each other for a long, long, long, long, long time and never noticed before, I think we need now to practice meditation to encourage us and strengthen us simply to Avoid evil, do good, and benefit others.

[38:51]

So I hope everybody here has a sitting practice. You can sit at home. Probably, practically speaking, I sit at home now because it's hard to go to a temple every day. But also, it's really important to sit with others. It's very, very important. that you not see your spiritual practice as a personal endeavor of yours, that you understand that in your practice you are connected to others, to understand that meditation isn't just a good hygienic practice to calm you down and make you more self-aware. It's much more than that. It promotes a sense of belonging, a sense of community and friendship and intimate human connection. You can't avoid evil, do good and benefit others until you really understand and appreciate yourself. And you can never really understand and appreciate yourself unless you can understand and appreciate others.

[40:00]

So that's why Zen is together practice. We have to sit together as often as we can. We have to rub shoulders together in sangha connection with teachers, with fellow practitioners. We all need to receive this support and we all need to give it and it's essential for all of us. So I wanted to study this sutra with you today because somehow it reminds me of Jordan. When you think of your sort of concept, you know, of a Zen priest, you might think of someone who is, you know, very pious and severe, straight-laced, full of faith. That wasn't Jordan.

[41:02]

Jordan loved life. He loved people. He loved his family. He loved his children. Especially he loved life's pleasures, wine, food, he loved it. And when you talk to Jordan about practice, you did not hear the kind of religious fervor that you might imagine. You would be hearing from a person who actually did spend the better part of his adult life living and working in Zen temples. Just like the Buddha recommended, Jordan verified the teachings not by faith or logic or enthusiastic belief or even by following teachers and listening to them. He verified the teachings for himself in the process of his own living in a very down-to-earth and practical way. He saw how necessary these teachings were for his own life.

[42:09]

He knew that without them he was going to have a rough time, as he did for a while in his life. He saw that practicing this way is a necessity for a reasonable life in this world. And he was a good priest. I would say a great priest. I have nothing but admiration for his practice. And the last time I gave a talk over here, which was not long ago, maybe like... One or two months ago, after years of not being over here, you know, I was here a couple months ago, and I went over afterward next door to see Jordan, and he was already really sick. And I was so happy to be with him. I was so inspired by the nobility of his attitude. He knew in a straightforward way and unsentimental way, not without emotion, but unsentimental, that his life was almost over.

[43:17]

He was very clear. And he could talk about it, and he could face it. That was the last time that I saw him alive. I wish after I was done With the question and answer today, I could go over there again and see him today. But I can't. So, I'm seeing you. And I'm very glad to be able to be seeing you. Thank you very much for being here, for your practice, for continuing this way of life. It's very simple. And it's very... open and broad and wide. There's a million ways to avoid evil, do good and benefit others. So let's all continue to do that together. Thank you very much.

[44:20]

Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, please visit sfzc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[44:48]

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