Blue Cliff Record Class

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SF-00070
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Cases 14 and 15

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and in jail
a sense
it's a serious of advertisements
didn't they everybody
this is the last class right right
well series and were quick record and
so we're going to finish up with them
chases fourteen and fifteen i think will
does the birth tonight because they sorted
hey together
you can't really
appreciate one without the other shows your boss
i will try and see what happens when a little
i confess i'm a little unprepared
tonight
ah yeah
we were studying these cases over the weekend and
the studying hard time case fourteen
he's fairly clear but police fifteen it's really hard i was a
so
excess exasperated the last time it was telling him
when i because
something is going on for the chinese that's very hard tell when it is no chinese so
i was consulting many different translations and getting more and more confused so i call a bacon roshi you know like a little is in the middle of dinner you know cause i said what's your translation of this print you know
and he told me i wrote the answer
establishment and
cause his translation is not published in early means you can't look it up you can look up his translations that moment convert his translations are the hit the road you can get script numerous
well now i just wanted to address translation of the words you know so i can see what it said that's the problem initially were working with a similar know we're working with the words that are not in a language and carry all these associations and that's why i times you know we break our brain but it's just because we we reviewed on at the words that it's pretty hard to stay
audi a text that depends on the words when you don't know what the words i mean that's the problem
sometimes it's not a problem because translation is fairly clear but it made this is the point another try to bring this out in these cases particularly it's a very subtle and careful in wordplay that's at issue and would you know we're trying to understand that workplace
across a foreign language none of the translations do it is even a canal ships translation but at least with his translation i can see
that's some of the other translations are clearly wrong way before i wasn't so sure you for in english i think in english nobody can actually translate
what's going on here and think anyone wants to start with fourteen
and k fourteen doesn't have a
introduction was point
for some reason i actually don't know and delight whether that was deliberate
and the far from soweto or whether you know whether he decided that he's not going to make a point of this case or whether it was last summer or something and i don't know
and a monk asked young man what are the teachings of a whole lifetime and young months said inappropriate appropriate statement
and
naked though she's translation of that is
ah
she's for blood family yeah what i got the numbers mr what is the teaching of the first age
instead of what are the teachings of a whole lifetime is the teaching of the first age and then his
yeah n g e g and in his translation of the answer young man's response is one teaching in response
you see a problematic
and then cicada translates the answer what are the teachings of a whole lifetime he translates what does the teaching of the first age and his translation of the response is teaching facing oneness
say that again to teaching facing oneness
so you see mrs hart and can figure out what's going on transition or lhasa was cicada you know in the tucson classics
so
it seems as if the question first of all we all remember you're not right maybe we talk about your environment i think it's case
him and has appeared in several other cases and
he first appears in case six
i don't ask you about the did we do that in this classroom when we did that it's a shameless at last summer yes
yeah sushi restaurant or what i don't ask about that before the fifteenth say try to say something but after the fifteenth day young man himself answer for everyone every day is a good day it's a famous sayings and you've heard about everyday is a good day and then in the commentary to the this case they tell you lots of things about
tuna
and i spoke a lot of humor and so
on it so without you know like going on and on young man
i was
a student under mucho and is a famous story or mojo was a real tough teacher and his method of dealing with students whereas if somebody came to him he would say to them like what they'd walk in the door and he would grab them by the lapels and say and say a word is in and they would suppress be dumbfounded and he would kick the
em up and that was his that was basically if you know so not many people came which i didn't have a big temple he was sort of like often as corner are not very many people got through the game so yeah man heard about him and mom with and they do the same thing the human they didn't even speak speak in one can say anything he threw him out
and you might try to get back in and he slammed the door or gate or something on his leg and broken my leg and then on breaking his leg and when became awaken and as the story i was enlightening story is getting his leg grown
and then although he went to show a fall and became an air of a he
well as the text says he basically had mojo style tough guy had the style
and he was very famous for
kind of non-sequitur one word answers
he would always in a guy just respond with one word that often would seemingly have nothing to do with the student's question he was also noted for
just like in this case the typical case where he would himself as the assembly a question that nobody could fathom and then he himself as in this case under six would give an answer to that question so they say that he was he was not too easy to get along with and
but noted for his a sharp sharpness and quickness and and shortness of his answers and as responses and he found in the school the young month school lasted for a number of generations so and i think i've mentioned before that a psuedo the author of
the compiler of the booklet record was in that school he was a couple generations after human from the human house so therefore it's not surprising that human appears in the book of record a number of times
and the book of record has a turnstile know because it's from that school
ah so diverse in a general idea about your mom
ah so
verse and appropriate statement how utterly unique
he went is a stake into the iron hammer head with no hole under the jungle tree i'm laughing ha ha
last night the black dragon has his horn wrenched off
exceptional exceptional the old man or shy young got one forms
so
and what does this first of all you know we've got a sweet try to appreciate
what the words are saying you know what this because it's not clear exactly what the question is or what the answer is the what the word said and he said
yeah
phone
yeah
well it means that doesn't follow
we answered the had fallen on nothing pilots from the answer
yeah so we have to explore a little more is that is that a non-sequitur answer in what way and someone whether these words really sad because we have various quite different versions of what these words are so first we gotta try to determine what does he say
so
ah
it seems as if most of the commentators including suzuki roshi for suzuki roshi has a comment which i can share with you in a moment
on these cases bothered if he also takes them both together and i think the commentators more or less agree
that
this refers to
buddha's teachings
you know
in china
the chinese were getting various teachings of buddhism through central asia
and you know if you've studied much of around british teachings you know that
they can be quite contradictory is quite confusing you read this would the that suit especially when you're getting mahayana and hinayana materials coming all the same time
here in india intermediate develop a little bit more of chronologically but in china came later they were getting various kinds of stuff all the same time it was very confusing
and the chinese
we're trying to figure out how could this vague and a how could the buddha says this and status is totally different worlds and totally different universes
so one of the features of chinese buddhism
as well as later indian buddhism and therefore tibetan buddhism was various
systems of explaining and can of like mapping out all the different teachings
sell for example one of the one such system was when when something like this this is not exactly because i forget something like this that when the buddha
was first enlightened
of course he was reluctant to teach but then he did teach and he just basically said how you felt about everything exactly as a profit
and then and that was the other times at center
and it was like totally cosmic and nobody can understand a single word of it
beyond anything that anybody can appreciate
so he realized that he had better backup up a few steps can start from the beginning and then build up to it so then he can he talks the original teachings the so-called result team he taught you know the five scanners and twelve whole chain of causation so on because he realized that people couldn't understand
the full weight of his experienced and then after that you know he taught the president harvey literature to sort of cancel out the the material from the pali canon so that people can understand that that material was not to be taken literally and then he taught them lotus sutra and so on and then there's another system in attend a school
that that
feels the lotus sutra is the most complete and for teaching so they were all these kind of systems that sort of made sense you know and also a tibetan buddhism they do a similar thing where they said as hinayana and mahayana tatiana and they all they're all true but they only to be understood in various ways hierarchical
set up of the teachings and so on
and of course the idea was that the buddha's taught appropriate to the situation when when he realized that people couldn't understand he backed off and the car so that people can understand sir
so that's what this question as what are the teachings of a whole lifetime
what are the teachings of the first age
either way however you translate that that refers to the entire body of good as teaching with the assumption media and the implication that the entire body of buddha's teachings is quite various and quite depending on the situation in response to various people in various understandings and so on for bats
what is referred to in this question however you say it or what are the teachers are obvious age for the first age or were in teaches of a whole lifetime to save the first incentive that seems fairly clear from
the different commenters
then
so
various translations of the answer than aren't here an appropriate statement
hello i'm pretty sure that it's not doesn't say statement it's probably says response because the character for response in chinese has a lot of
ah mouth radicals in it so it does imply a verbal response but not necessarily a statement
so probably responses a better translation
ah
and it probably has the idea in there and i don't have the character i'm i'm gonna use the reading this stuff and so i have a feeling which may or may not be accurate or other
but it seems like judging from the different translations that it probably has the word
one in it for like one and a sense of at one with her magic so you can get i get appropriate i won because advances and lines up for in she has one teaching and response is a cicada such as teaching facing oneness so you can see how they are
it's a chinese herbs you see it's it's could bear both those translations because there's no grammar exactly you know it's just
it's not clear how the words relate to one another and quite often there's all there's that kind of ambiguity that we could it could support a number of different translations so you can see teaching facing oneness and one teaching in response
how they could get that are the same character and i would say suzuki roshi is working from he didn't translate themselves as if if she used an old book at the time that he thought it was only one translation in existence in english and it's a particularly
add one
he translates what is the first age teaching
which is the same as accuracy and then the responses the teaching conference each
you can see her you know
so the idea however you translate you get get a feel for at the idea is
teaching suits the occasion
it has been teaching since the occasion or it teaching in the occasion
you can see face each other when one that's a big match
right
so that's not that hard to understand
and then
so terms of our practice
you know like this morning had the ceremony
and so i try to do that right i try to respond to each person for that person right
that's what i'm trying to and enough and i'm thinking about it but my feeling is i want to meet the person
and and it helps that i know you're right and we practiced together that's what makes it interesting i know everybody and i know the context for with the question comes and i try to just meet the question with a response that's appropriate so that one's the response that i give to one person might be the opposite editor if that happens when i can never been quite often it
does happen where two people might even ask the same question
and i might give the opposite response
because of the person that that's the idea here and then we have the same in our lives we have the same issue right we have to respond appropriately what's appropriate for me as not necessarily appropriate for you what's appropriate for you today is not necessarily appropriate for you tomorrow you know we're all in different
positions and different places in our lives and we have to authentically meet conditions
that's
the essential
the teachings of buddhism that the mountain and of course how do we know if somebody might ask how do you know what the appropriate responses well that's where
the activity of our practice comes in
you know we know because we trust ourselves we trust our gut reaction
and that
more established in the way we are the more i gut reaction is trust is to be trusted and along the way of the of that we make a lot of mistakes and we learn we learn we make a mistake we trust our gut reaction we say what's now now we didn't work
so now i learned that now i know that this part of my experience now
so
but so that this is a very profound suffering it's simple to understand and way of and so profound to river and how do we know how to respond the conditions how do we know how to come forth from the standpoint of dharma and not from the standpoint of me this is what i want this is what i mean this is what i feel like no more like this is this
is how i come forth as the whole universe in a on my life i come forth in that way with let go of our personal stuff as much as we can realistically do that and comfort as the dharma so that's what i think he saying yes i so
rahul yeah fest as that's required
draco
so
and then the commentary makes this pretty crystal clear
when it says that the very beginning members of the john five family
if you want to know the meaning a good and nature you must observe times and seasons causes and conditions read same same print
this is called the special transmission outside the written teachings the sole transmission of the mind seal correctly pointing to the human mind for the perception of nature and realization of buddhahood
so in other words that's why
so even though all these different teachings of buddha are quite different in detail often a detail and everything but our school is saying don't
get bogged down all these details and all these teachings realize that the teachings are only created out of a particular situation
and those situations arise in the course of our lives so that's the teachings that as far as buddha responded with teaching the f respond with our own activity so it's following time and seasonal causes and conditions that that is the special transmission and
for forty nine years buddha
i thought and
you know the monk asked what did what's the meaning of that and then one responded as he did
and then the this is kind of interesting when it says some as usual within one sentence a young then three sentences are bound to be present
these are called the sentence that encloses heaven and earth
with sentence that follows the waves and the sentence that cuts off the myriad streams
so
simultaneously know there's and three
and this is the i think this is the secret
of young man's responses why they're so hard to understand sometimes because i have you slay dimensions
the sentence that encloses heaven and earth is like the sword that gives life
in other words
everything's included no mistakes
there's no mistakes everything's included whatever happens in a break the rules
wherever it's all included as know nothing outside the teaching yet the affirmative path the path of the get life-giving sword and then the other one
the sentence that cuts off the myriad streams best the sword that takes life that's than the via negative you know nothing is right whatever wherever your present whatever you do always or dogan says you know my whole practice has been one continuous mistake
there's nothing to hold onto nothing exists
and so you have to appreciate both sides and young man gives answers that bring a both sides at the same time
and then the one in the middle of wave following wave or sentence that follows the ways this is a code meaning
following the ways means following karma
so
the student always has a certain karmic spin right everybody comes with their own stuff everybody stuff is a little different somebody's
president is a perfectionist
right that's their problem somebody else is sloppy as their problem everybody's got their own in know version of confusion delusion and you know and green and aversion we wrong we are we're all like walking billboards for grid eight version
a different branches will who had answered asked in a lesser that's their situation so so young man
and so of course you can't teach without delay to that you have to know the student you have to know their karma and yet the follow their coordinates way fallen way you follow the economy of the of the student
because you might as well because you're never going to get through if you don't but it was if you don't know the students karma and follow along with it
you won't be able to cooperate with the students half and help them to and it's the same way in terms of our own practice if we were to deny the way we are and say what we're supposed to be in so i'm not supposed to be this way that i am bound never work right because will be swimming upstream we have to actually for
figure out you know what are what our tendencies are and we have to honor them and harmonize with them
in order to realize enlightenment through them so that's where far after work yeah he invite any can you pack them up for something you've never to the nautilus to kind that
he never learning in as abrupt you just learned anything on states or isn't an arms is that basically sort of an interesting than any
well
ha i'm not sure you know exactly what you mean by that what i think that the this way of cutting off the myriad streams is appreciating emptiness that nothing exists
giving up everything that exists nothing nothing to hold onto
nothing to affirm
so it's kind of like
we'll tough
you know being willing to die at any moment like that or whether or not that's what a novelist their friend was saying i'm not sure but it's kind of like that
accepting
seeing the impermanence maybe seeing the pyramids and prominence as these two sides
with one side is nothing exists
we're not really hit were already dead
which means we're already a peace where are required we we think we are suffering there's no suffering to be found
and the other side is everything exists was no mistakes in our suits their kind of flip side form is emptiness emptiness is form
so anyway these are the three and i think we have to appreciate all three of these positions if we we can
i think fail to appreciate what any one of us because then always be lopsided if we only follow wave after wave well that's just
that's just ordinary life ordinary suffering ordinary the hague delusions that's not quite enough you know we'll just a whole life will be on fire you know forever
so as a while the other hand that's not enough just to follow the negative way to cut off the million streams that we become and nihilistic and we just we jump off bridges and we don't we're not we have no kindness
the other way just just a does the sword that gives life
or just the has a very says there would you say i'm closing heaven and earth if that's the only way when it when that balanced by the other two then when it's total permissiveness there's no boundaries we can do anything
and that's like balance how are we gonna get anywhere that way
we can do anything you don't do anything but i mean
right away going to do i can i can do anything i want today i know people who could do anything they want they can wake up in the morning do anything they want it and if it can't do anything
i mean really for that reason
you need a problem you need a structure you need you can live without without that you i'll need a proper that's why we come to appreciate our problems she said at one time it feels like on my god and i feel so bad i've set and smile then any saying wow i'm lucky i had this shallowness
otherwise that what would i do it myself
so so these are so that's good that's a good thing i remember might be three three sides to every gunman statement so this statement you know what what is the teaching of the of the edge and appropriate response or
one teaching in response has those three sides one teaching a response nothing everything and just your response
okay
a
so an appropriate versus inappropriate statement how utterly unique
ah he went as a stake into the iron hammerhead with no whole
so the iron hammer hammerhead with no whole
it's a little white girl
you know you can't use it now whole means no place to stick handling such as big i hammerhead which is good for doing work but it's totally useless because of no handle
for else ultimate reality is like that ultimate reality is like this big hammerhead but it can operate in their lives unless we can get a handle on literally so he's he drives a wedge into the fire hammerhead of no whole means he gets a handle it is human saying is a handle for us to as the idea
does that come from seemed out of the blue it's out of the blue it's it's it's these things are are either the bluefin
the roster always around
they're all either chinese folk settings or lines from chinese poems or other literary chinese text this a hurry up get out to the response number tennessee
response the probably statement for yes i know i am i right for whom said it everyone young hand and said can you know
no this so what well say the poem is written by swear i was just quoting a poem that the footnote are but the footnote snow the footnote yeah uses the same image and the photo is written by this other guy acts against me for their three were reading reading three
three people have one is what is your way down wrote the book
an average case and wrote the verse right
and then you on what was the one who wrote commentary
and then this third guy who came along whose name i keep forgetting
the footnotes
you know that they're very well yes query wrote the footnotes they have letters so extremely navy
query out that
it's also has translation reasons and he translated to him but this image so this image the iron hammer head with the know hannibal is used by both mr x and way though that that comment on young ones answer
there was saying that you're not gives us up
handle so that we can will this iron hammerhead and
this is what you don't one of the things that yeah yeah is and through
unity while i'm in the yes i have read without the whole as i write the am
every year the mosquito try to bite and i am on someone's every yeah family who uses are you can't you can use it can hear the because it's everything cause you great say again that matter if it's a hammerhead so it's useful here yeah it's you going he actually is fix it and
no identity is an amazing thing yeah when appropriate statement right exactly is evident with is everything that every case example is useful because it's appropriate in every situation it's a marvelous major exactly and that's what the sutras and that's the idea of the sutras and all of it is
so there's just a little handle from on everything or nothing
yeah me
so
today
the no really i mean what to think i think that all the time it's it's amazing
yeah i think i might be getting off in my head was so
like way
union in a way like to use the hair and analogy like
the has everything on the only way you can use it is is like a few honor the wedge
like time like the way like following the way that you are a great but share comments you have to either wedge will hook you have yourself in the shoes of wretch the while wedge and thread you are the as your the hanley grow everything that your the handle anyway
reminder well
yeah
so
continue with the poem and under the jumbo tree i'm laughing haha
the name of of this the name of the place where we live is called various things but for it is called there's a whole fascinating buddhist cosmology
that's really details
and the buddhist cosmology of the world we're living on the continent of jammed with vigor
which means i could hit with that means for the rich t-mobile
maria this is what this world series lounge
this is missing one thinking i like to win here
it's not the milky way the earth
i mean in this well in talking about reality or in this guy
the name of the earth than ordinary human habitation is called job of vehicle
a tell each other
i was reading this article today about her
the hubble space telescope
just makes your head spin
how vast you know i will allow the hubble space telescope i mean
i can't even
just how the earth is such a teensy little thing needs a little brain such gazillions of different styles and they're running they'd the galaxies you know that flow into one another and sometimes they bump into one another and the nick huge explosions and everything i mean even like a huge i was thinking to a huge earthquake
that would knock this whole building down and a lot of big roar and the earth opens up and fire comes out and all this would be peanuts compared to the smallest little pregnant two galaxies happen to smash together and useless
and
yeah i mean like there's they measured i'm sorry i'll look it up in and i'll tell you better later but but there was one point where it said that
that the galaxy that were in is actually my measurement moving in the direction of another galaxy like i think for one five billion years or something like that i mean that's going to hit to the galaxy
and it's gonna be like fireworks you know what that's going to make anything that anybody has ever seen in the biggest five alarm fire and oakland you know anything like france to significant fact i mean it's going to happen this is it is they they see that happening it's run run away and and for meeting the seller galaxy and crashing into it which happens all the time
time they have them they see the pictures of a meal and to telescope
but we're here on job with people enjoying our practice and he's the author suede i was sitting under the jumbo tree which serve covers the continent
looking at all this and laughing cause it's really funny
the
yeah
just like murder
and
then i'm not sure about the black dragon had a sworn wrenched off and mature about that i don't know where that from
but the old man of shy young as his young run
and young man
in a young man he's getting them he didn't get both warrensburg
the query says the horn is is the stake driven into the whole is hammered return
let's let's look at the next case because the next case is the exact mirror opposite you know
my case for the case fifty and it's a mere average it
the case for thing
and this one does have a pointer
ah the single edged sword that kills people
the double edged sword that bring people to life
the customary rule of high antiquity is still the pivotal essence for today
i tell me right now which is the sort that kills people in which is disorder that brings people to live test i cite this look
the case for mark as human when it's not the president elect their it's not the present phenomenon for isn't and uma said and upside down state map
an acre oh she says
root for the question this is not the present function of mine
this is not the matter before me
and yen run says one statement upside down
and
one statement upside down
question the question this is not the present function of mind this is not the matter before me
problems and then one statement upside down san difference between that and clear translation
ah
well
you can see you can see clearly how they're using the same word since this almost same but the present matter before me
ah
does this sound exactly like a present phenomenon
it's pretty close but the way i understand this myself is
but the present intellect and the present phenomena is the equivalent of for teaching of the of the age in the previous case
it's the opposite
here is yourself
that case referred to the teachings right
and the receiving
ah the listeners of the teaching
what was all about teaching suited to the listener right a bullet or this way when there were these kind of people and talk that way most kind of people that way when this kind of people what does all that amount to an appropriate response
here it's like what it what is it when there's no teaching and no listener
there's no intellect so that so the intellect here is the teaching
have phenomena is the people
that's all i understand this
so it's like saying what is this when there's no teaching and now listen when there's no intellect or no
no
phenomena to give rise to the statement
that's how i understand anyway
so as the miracle you see how that would be the make sense it's just my interpretation or mosaic russia's response one statement upside down
and cicada who in the previous one said
what is the teaching of the first age one teaching i mean teaching facing oneness here he says no teaching at once
and another translation i phone says the opposite of statement instead of upside down statement said the opposite of statement
on statement the opposite of statement
yeah says
and then the
suzuki roshi is working for a while
shaw's or translation
ah
the here's here's a shot translated in suzuki roshi use this
a monk asked young men what would go to have done if there had been no one to hear the teaching and no occasion on which to apply the teacher ceramics real obvious than the average and then ah
topsy turvy idea
which is upside down so there's definitely the idea that we can see the upside down some kind of a response or statement which is upside down which is the opposite of appropriate appropriators right side up and fits perfectly upside down is like the years ago
so you can see how in both case fourteen fifteen the questions and fifteen as the reverse of the question of fourteen and the answer or fifteen in the reverse of the answer of fourteen and you understand to vanessa i'm pretty sure the death the best case that there and that's where the fun of it lies in
in the exact mirroring and the funny part the thing that got me that many really crazy and i'm just hoping that satisfied with it
is
you would think logically
it like cicada does it as you would think it would be
what about when the was the teaching of the other of the
first age or of a whole lifetime and a proper response what about when there's no teaching and know here's
no response
right who needs a response like wife have a stick a handle on that
it's just residents no response necessary nor response would arise
that would be what you think right but he doesn't say no response he didn't say appropriate response and no response
he says the opposite distinct the question is the opposite he says the opposite appropriate response basically an inappropriate and totally inappropriate response
well that's weird right can you sue running really appreciate the balloon was weird why would he say that it's a great example of human
not saying you know what you think should be said that itself as it was his response is the democratic candidate
yeah so what he said
so okay that's the that's the case and an inverse is and
the question
i downstate
yeah well that's what i think there's a lot of the ways we can look at that and that's that's human for you're right
i think i mean you can
like
so there's always galaxies crashing in a runner this is it's like science fiction you know but it's more real than you and me
right
i mean so we say what about when there's nothing i
what nothing where you going to fly where where's where's they're going to be nothing so you and i are gone find the earth burns up and falls out of the heavens big deal with their nothing then we might think well there's nothing i am gone there's nothing anybody i know they're all gone is nothing the earth brenda there's nothing
but there's plenty anyone maybe the idea that there's nothing and no one is an upside down a topsy turvy idea
it's my idea my concept nothingness is my concept
concept it certainly makes sense when there's something that you think there's nothing we can talk about nothing and we can even freak ourselves out over nothing
but what kind of nothing would would there be ever
he said summary
yeah end and then also
ah to me i can't escape the
idea that
what's upside down
is
the ordinary world
i mean the ordinary way that we have looking at life in our world is exactly upside down from the way it really is
so so we have this world are suffering creatures
and the suffering directly comes from the idea that that that we live in a world and understand the world and explain a world and described world that's the exact opposite of the way the world really is
so i hear echoes of that in humans response here's somebody's talking about
not the everyday he's not asking about what about the everyday world of suffering upside down i think he's asking about total nothing's
there's no response there's no teaching there's no conditions for teaching it's a pure zero world what about that
upside down idea
that's the equivalent of the world
gonna stand for of say
in other words
nothing and something
ah completely implicated with each other they're both they're both are concepts
neither one
so
ah what ways is not one that the president acolyte
i mean he's a rocking the president-elect now
it does i wrote in africa president for
you made this the monkeys and yang you are yeah instead when is the president's like if you're working right
cynthia math yeah it is our iraq in africa president right now now an easy walking everything that
and it is it's upside down and talk and other words you use my understanding correct with that already in the students speaking of such a thing he's already in in cotton contradiction gala in activities
yeah
no left upside down world them
how create responses to the upside down
how do you mean for off if you are right side up in an upside down world would be very room
after a weekend
efficient
crusher
certificate statement
he then
that know if there is like to and police as noted in that extra gotta about ah
the answers to question and questions and the answer you saw that ah
and yet arm and it's not the present moment and like in this nonsense and phenomenon
that would be an upside down question yeah well that's what we're saying yeah and so the answer has to be else i'm excited down an answer you the answer is upside down here
yeah i think that that's what we're saying
i think we should also be open to the fact that there's at least two or three more dimensions to it but i think that that seems like a good idea as to whether the dimensions are now is that to come in on the student's question he started my collection of and rooted in the sense of not going on silver
yeah yeah so that's what we're saying i think that that this response of humans is a reflection of the question
or a common on aggressive now
so let's just do the verse and never go back and look at commentary and then remind me to us will give you some selections from suzuki roshi common theory on his case
and upside down statement dividing one token
dying with you being born with you to get your certainty
the eighty four thousand disciples a buddha were not phoenix feathers
thirty three people entered the tiger's den distinctly outstanding the moon in the churning rushing water
okay so let's go back and of commentary in and to work our way up an appointment to me more
purposes of us his commentary
so the commentary or the question by the market and previous case is called asking for more instruction in the present case it is a question to demonstrate understanding it can also be called question with a concealed bars
the the thread of feels like
hello most commentators saying that it's the same month
both cases
suede oh thinks that the second mark as much more private than the first
and i think you i get a feeling for the prevented from you know it was the first one is what is what is taking the buddha or why bodhidharma com and what is very simple yeah it's like a pretty much like it
the hitters question or no beginners for you know like are innocent question where this question you feel their somethings hidden as crest of a little trick question can you okay mom couldn't be the same on casters really tried to i could be end where should he be given an official celia why don't we have with this monkey is right
interesting i flew you just said about how like you respond with questions and chosen by means intimate moment because you know the situation that urine for like we don't know the situation this month or my we like maybe he's just responding to this month when this instant like me when we will particles with work
don't like yeah part of the work that we have to do it understanding a case like this is
we have to become a work and we have to become relevancy that these these are little with the web or the stripped down these cases are stripped down to one or two lines the whole lifetime and yet red strip down one or two minds and we have to supply the like
this is just giving us the pattern we have to actually if we're going to really study these cases and meditate with them vanessa than we are the monk you have to become the month and you have to really understand where the smoke is coming from and has to be where you're coming from so that's that's why
yeah can be the same month like man says later on and you haven't been and we we see that first we spotted could very well be that you know this is a case where like says some luck in a monastery and the shows on ceremony he asked the first question of yeah my number of game first response he
went back to the cushion for two years five years one year six months who knows and then the next time there was a big public ceremony he came up and he said he realized something
you know and then he came back and said okay good i got that now what about this
a man months said and upside down statement
so and this is a really i think corroborating bob's point an expert teaching raster is like a bright we're i stand with a forerunner comes a foreigners reflected in a native comes a native is regretted
so a foreigner and native is gonna write code for
ha one who is intimate and one who isn't one who intimately and into native is intimate with the place
is are totally manifest into teaching a foreigner it is not you know so
teaching this is like again or brabazon fall in the waves so we follow the person's karma
you respond so ah
you know
with someone asked you about the deepest
is a burger when you try to respond to like the dish the acousticians of there and if somebody asked you about the whether you talk about the rather forget about the biggest issues a bird dharma so
right now
and then since when have the sages from past times ever had anything to give to people
where is their child or dow that it can be given to you
if you don't do hellish days naturally you will not bring on how much results if you don't create heavenly conditions they actually you won't we see have a movie awards all circumstances of activity myself made when self receive

and you learn clearly tells me when we discuss this appearance not in the words and phrases

then the last paragraph this monk aswell where it's not the president elect and the present phenomenon what isn't right in inman answer and with some other words
why is that you just say to him and upside down statement inland at once demolished him utterly still to say and upside down and statement at this point than k a gouge out a wound and healthy flesh
which means that
you know it's unnecessary
if you're messing it up to the everything is nice why are you going in there making a mess our
yeah he's criticizing human in a way in a nice rare but why did even have to say anything the emergence of tracks of words is the source from which divergent opinions are born
so
this seems to indicate that
young man
it's not
giving
the students and answer to his question
and then an answer to question can never be given
because the answers in the question
and all you can do is
point that up and give an answer but that is you know comes out of the question
and that's really the truth right nobody will hear and what they don't wanna hear what they're not going to be here and you can tell anybody anything
i know that
ah you can do is
i try to point out to someone what it is they're actually saying or doing and then let them
reap the rewards their activity
so you can do
ah
i mean in a way all teaching a secret right because we can stand up and say all these things but
just like good you know he gives the our of sidra in all three volumes over the her
well i'm going to say something else
so i think that's
no more than just reflecting students
ha
i was thinking in the inner yogi will enchant a widow words such and such as such and such pain
it seems like an ant and the chronology that it says that he taught me for years and right
i think some know
girl was born and
later in like layabout guy at varanasi enter nirvana at kissinger action
hey
but
he goes that theory

okay so
the verse and upside down statement writing one talking
or email hundred sure about that and upside down statements right in one tokens
it could be one of the commentators suggests and this was a decent idea in the
half the token is an appropriate response and the other half the token is an upside down idea that these two cases are half with the same each one carries half of your months meaning know
well that's a car
have them painted on saying this is a good question was prompted question we i can be like the token is divided between the question the answer and could be like that
dying with you being born with you to give you certainty
and this to me is a beautiful
it reminds me just started this so
oh no
reminder the lot of the wonderful our little poem by milk on which i was staying in the apartment that i stay and when i go to vancouver you know michelle's appointment
ah
michelle i ordained michelle not too long ago in the saga of their you know it's not like here where we think wealthy temple where we get our day in them
temple gives you thousands of dollars with the ropes
mineralization
there there's no money so the temple doesn't mean anything you saw you know kaisa and an asset so the saga wanted to give her something
and for the nation and i said wrong and maybe you should give her a row because she doesn't really have a proper robes and the all pitched in this long story to make a small for point anyway
a sent her a card with the row and they said this is erupting and they everybody's name is on the inside on the outside of the car was a little poem by ryokan that goes something like
i wish my priest's robe for big enough
to close all the suffering sentient beings in the world
what is wonderful com as that were beautiful and
there are dying wish you'd been born with you and that's what we do it right we die with each other and were born with each other and we suffer with each other
this is our commitment you know
we can't really and a fundamental way
now we can't really do anything for anybody or for each other at all we can do is die with each other and be born with each other and be willing to do that just enclose each other you know together and completely be willing to accept that except each person as they are except their suffering
i'm really taken to heart anatomy
not be beyond enter he said and timer that doesn't bother me or something you really and truly embrace people suffering and so you know what an interesting thing here is this tough guy young man
who sounds like the most aloof character that there could ever be dispensing all decision stuff
but really
for us way that was telling us that in this response we really see you in man's heart he's willing to
get in there with the students and be just as upside down as anyway
dying with you'd be born with you to give you a certainty or to give you confidence
say
the
when young man dies and is born with his students it's like the brunette guys and born guys was born with students and that gives us confidence that to encourage to die and be born for that's beautiful to me very good
the a four thousand cycles of buddha were not phoenix feathers and the commentary tells us that phoenix feathers be faced a similar story the burden of which is that phoenix feather means brilliant great and he's a the a four thousand
buddhists in the assembly and thinking this someone says ran monica shopper sunflower these are the eighty four thousand who don't understand
and thirty three people enter the tigers then i think this is thirty three generations of students from buddha to young man
into a man's lineage now we have ninety two
rebound and nine and second are simple and ninety second and third generation and
baker oh she's always reflect and when an amazing thing that was
get the raleigh minded people or whatever then we could put ninety people in this room but there were ninety generations is not so many receives a long time ago
and but an humans time it was thirty three now it's ninety
so thirty three people handed a tiger's den
literally out of banning the moon in the churning rushing water and that's another images com
the moon awakening is in the churning rushing water reflection of the moon is in that rushing i reminded me so clear and the churning rushing water but it's their reflection and what is there anywhere and so we
ah
get down there for each other in a churning rushing water we know avoided were willing to to do that with each other so but it's interesting you say that
the irony of the case is that humans answer is all about is following the students com it's all about carbon it's all about the upside down world and the student seemingly is bringing up
nothingness
so can you appreciate you know
there is no nothing
there is no
beyond there is no elsewhere
where is no peace there is no rest there is no later on there is the on enlightenment there is no in are somehow immune shangrila there's only you know now now now now activity activity activity activity meeting meeting meeting practice practice practice life
like life which is also death
yeah the so
the student thinks that he's bringing up
what's beyond
and young and basically
you know hikes like you could say yeah
when i was like a student says
know what's it like when we're beyond tears and human when presented crying escobar kind of like with this cases like dinner
because
he says that when the students says what's it like to be beyond tears
the yeah that that's what in attitudes yeah that's the deepest sadness of all this projection that there is such a thing and a desire to get there are only going to produce more tears and human sees that in bursa crime behind terrorism
yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly
in other words being willing to the idea here right presence yeah so young man he is able to tears in months tears or to is transcending tears you know
so yeah seen on a regular little from here via the three kinds of leakage i like that at current little i still pitching their that the three kinds of leakage or and page one hundred and one
ah

there are three kinds of leakage emotional leakage leakage reviews and verbal leakage
if there is leakage abuse
she intellect does not stir from is fixed position
when falls into the poison a seat so leakage abuses
being stuck on news
right
having a fixed principle
and not letting go on
cause leakage abuse
right over and weekend
well it's an old technical term an old buddhism which was literally
floss
we like a leak
and i don't know why they use that term exactly it's sort of like i can understand that mean
it's like gum
if you're really settled
in a flowing out of yourself right
coyotes can you feel that you really settled so
somebody puts distributor or like it's thanksgiving right and you're very settled in your mind at ease somebody puts a gigantic pumpkin pie in front of you
that pumpkin pie just as it is
or
ah you're not settled
and somebody puts that pumpkin pie in front of you and you're going on i want that
you know that kind of leader you can feel yourself flowing out of yourself toward that pumpkin pie or when you want to incorporated into someone's florida
desires like that desire is one of the outflows
say so that's what happens when we actually flow out of ourselves and this is where trouble comes from right
because we don't we we don't think we're not self possessed so to speak so were flowing out so they call that outflows and so
and then they use that term and query translates and as leakage
that's why hear something wrong with wanting the pack
there's something wrong with outflows yes now you could say ah how pleasant
what's have a piece of crime
so we we are in our other clue we were hurting a class in the m
merging and a kind of know if you guys were around and when we were doing their class but we were studying a text that was on his point and it was basically saying
that there's nothing wrong with eating a piece of pumpkin pie but and for diamond is not asceticism barbuda actually tried asceticism and he found out that they didn't really work so in other words that means that it's not that we are to eliminate desire and not have a piece of pumpkin pie on
thanksgiving or how do we have that piece of hungry by how do we appreciate it and if we flow out of ourselves and try to gobble up that piece of pumpkin pie in effect to fill the void
then this will not be helpful
but if we presented with a piece of pumpkin pie having the sense of taste and appreciate and sense of taste appropriately we can enjoy the peace the company pie without without outflows
so the outflow is not measured by how many whether or not be reading a pumpkin pie it's measured by your inner relationship to learn and that's just the idea that makes sense yeah so
so that's one kind of so one can a leakage here is
leakage of views which is the one
when were the intellect fixes on a on a position or an idea and will let go of it
and then of the leakage of feelings
is it feelings like knowing always turns toward and against
and one's view is biased
so you can't just
see something you have to either one it were rejected
and if you and those are the possible feelings rights is either gasping our version and once you do that here already in the soup just instant the alternative is to just allow things to be as they are and appreciate everything without trying to grab and or a
bertram
yeah well yeah
the bouncier likud is the opposite
so that's are failing sleek and verbal leakage is body's the marble or loses the fundamental the intellect confuses
beginning and end
and i think that some
i guess anyway
herbal leakage seems like less to do with words in them
so it has to do with the ways of speaking
speaking in a way gets enthusiastically describing things but forgetting what things really are the fundamentals
so using so it's possible for us to mesmerize ourselves with language
if we lose track of where things really are and we just get wrapped up in language in i know some people like that who just get wrapped up in their own language
and you know you don't have to be all that verbal able to do that if i forget what it is that they're doing it and i what
you know what matters
a hash so those are the three kinds of leakage leakage to watch out for it's funny because in the old school these are not to release the outflows of different we're at once i think one is sense desire actually i think false fuses is is one of the of low since desire fast years
ill will
i forgot think is foreign to look at

me greatly
referred exact to prove it the her wrist
i should know these things chamber me
okay so
not sure if it's happen so let's to see what just give you some highlights from suzuki roshi
so he here in this commentary here he
yeah tux discusses both cases at the same time
and
he says
i will get off in several pages long with
when
so teaching given by shakyamuni buddha during his lifetime this is a is portland was accommodated to each disciples particular temperament into each occasions particular circumstances for each case there should be a rent a special remedy
according to the circumstances there should even be teachings other than the teachings which were told by buddha
when the light of this how is it possible to interpret and pass down and essential teaching which can be applied to every possible occasion and individual temperament
when of course the implication being it is impossible it's not
this question a monk had a preconceived idea of zen buddhism as an esoteric guy was transmitted through the as an ancestor which is different from the teachings of other schools of buddhism based on supposedly dead scriptures
oman's answer points out amongst misunderstanding of the real nature of the sects of buddhism
so it's a little bit differently saying that woman
ah
i mean that when he says that the monk was trying to get your mind to say something like prostheses teachers don't matter what we're doing something beyond those teachings and among us and no decisions where appropriate the situation when in our way is not different from those kitchen password some of the rushing around in circles
ah
he's saying circular she goes on to say that there was a school and slighted the scriptures and ignore the precepts
ah but that woman was showing something different

whatever the teacher may be teaching conference each one in accordance with the circumstances the teaching has absolute value and to accord with the circumstance and teaching should have an infinite number of forms
buddhism in it's pure and formless form is given to us in samadhi or zazen when we are ready to accept buddhism or not expecting anything
buddhism is not something you will find out when you try
when you are just ready to accept it everything you see flashes forth to great light and everything you hear the wondrous free voice that is why we said
so when he says buddhism is not something you'll find out when you try
means it's not something that you can do i'm going to do buddhism and discover i'm going to find out buddhism just finding we were ready we just accepted and
don's unrestored it takes us over rather than we're going to make it is it makes us and then on everything we see is down
and that's why we said
that's what he says about case for content about his fifteen he said sir
in the introductory word
our anger refers to the like taking sorry
rather like like a sword means to eliminate all the ideas and expectations which you have to leave out all the objects in front of you in other words to be one with was given to you and to feel empty
let's go
this is if he he was missouri
how to kill the buddha means just to be buddha
to be ready to do anything as it comes to you one thing after another and this way the buddhist great activity appears if you have a preconceived idea of the first principle that idea is topsy turvy
as long as you try to find out what is the first principle which can be applied to every occasion you are topsy turvy ideas such ideas should be removed for everything is clear and empty is great light shines for him
so don't call on any notions of buddhism this is like a certain way the exact opposite of what i i call fundamentalism
since this is a truth now i know it and if you believe it or something wrong with you or i'm holding onto this because i know it's true
there's no such thing
in radom crude you know she says if you hold onto that that's called leaking of intellect or leaking of years
so that's what he says about them
anything left a around for me that
henry are you ready
so anyway thank you for sending our class or the new preferred and i will do against some time and sure
and i hope that there
no opinion contains valuable for if if you feel like it
when would not as thirty something else
so

hey
the
really really have the picture
the around