Lots of stories have been told about this naked world. Stories about Indian Buddhas and Indian ancestors. Stories about this monastery for 50 years. stories about the monastery, a monastery that has 50 years of stories. In the last year of Suzuki Roshi's life, 1971, in March, he invited me to be his attendant on a retreat he was going to go to

[01:51]

in Portland, Oregon. And I wanted to be his attendant on the trip. And I had already previously agreed to an invitation from another Zen priest to help him with some teaching event. But I felt more need, more wish to go with Suzuki Reshi. and be his attendant.

[02:52]

So I told the other priest that Susie Gershie had invited me and I wanted to go with him and that other priest was disappointed in me. And it's one of those, I'm somewhat, I was sorry, he was a very nice priest and I was sorry not to actually follow through on my commitment to him. But I really wanted to go with Suzuki Roshi. And I can't really say that I did it for Suzuki Roshi. I kind of, I wanted to do it. And I'm sorry in a way that I let down that other priest. At the same time, that trip for me was one of the most important times in my life. one of those, what do you call it, human situations that are complex and ambiguous.

[04:03]

But anyway, I did feel sorry to let down this very good man to be with another very good man. So I So I went with Suzuki Roshi to Portland, and when we got on the plane, he said that he wanted to teach me how to count people in Japanese. And many of you have heard this story repeatedly, so I'm not going to tell it right now. But if upon request, I will tell it. But not right now. Maybe not too long from now, if you want it. Let me know. I just don't want to irritate the nervous system, but people have heard it 10 times. So we flew to Portland and, yeah, we landed safely.

[05:16]

And then the next day, oh, and then he gave a talk. We flew on a Friday, I think. And we landed on a Friday, and they gave a talk Friday night at Reed College. So I think that was March 4th. You can check the archives. And then the next day we had a sitting. It was going to be a two-day sitting. Next day, Saturday, we had a sitting. And during the sitting, I was carrying the stick, the kiyosaku, which means the encouragement stick. And Sir Gershi was sitting, and suddenly, pretty suddenly, he bent forward like this and stayed down for a while. And I went over and I said, Roshi, what's happening? And I think he said, I have a terrible pain. And, yeah, so pretty much we...

[06:24]

He got up and he left the sitting and went home, went to the place we were staying. And he told me to stay and take care of the sitting. And then after the sitting was over, I went back to the house where he was and he still had a lot of pain in his abdominal region and he was spitting up bile He was spitting up something which turned out to be bile. Gallbladder. And he was eating watery rice soup. But he didn't want to go to the hospital at that time anyway. So he asked me to lead the next day of the sitting, which I did. And then... We flew back together.

[07:26]

And the house we were staying at was a house of a woman student of his named Rowena Leary. At that time her name was Rowena Leary and then later she added her maiden name, I think Rowena Liripate, and we're staying at her house with her son, who was called Tiger. And I think he was called Tiger, maybe because when this woman told Suzuki Roshi she was pregnant, He said, oh, you have a tiger in there. His regular name was Charlie. So then she called him Tiger because she said that.

[08:37]

So there was Tiger, and we're going to the airport, and Tiger did not want to go to the airport. He was complaining about it. And Suzuki Rishi, with his pain, I was really impressed that he was in a lot of pain, But he was taking care of this little boy and trying to make the trip a little entertaining for him. He was putting on a little show for the little boy. And it worked somewhat. And then we flew back to San Francisco. And his wife and Yvonne Rand were at the airport. At that time, you could go to the meet people airport. at the gate, so they were there with a wheelchair for him. And he said sort of under his breath, I don't need the wheelchair. I'm the Zen master.

[09:39]

And I felt a little kind of like, hmm. when he said that. I mean, you know, if you are, but you don't have to tell me. Why are you telling me? Anyway, he said that. And he didn't use the wheelchair. And so we went back to Zen Center and then he went into his room. But then he did something which Zen masters don't usually do, or at least he didn't usually do. He just took off his Corona and let it drop on the floor. And then, not too long afterwards, I guess calling the doctor and the doctor said, bring him to the hospital. But then he He didn't refuse assistance.

[10:51]

He was taken out on a stretcher to the hospital. And then in the hospital, his gallbladder was removed. And he and his wife did not tell us that there was malignancy in the gallbladder. and so then after the operation he actually recovered quite nicely and yeah he was like back sitting with us and meeting with us and giving us Dharma talks and just seemed to be getting stronger and stronger and his wife said to me you know yeah it seems like that that gallbladder was actually hindering his health.

[11:56]

Now that it's gone, he does seem to be getting healthier and healthier. And then one day in the springtime, I don't know whether it was April or May, I don't think it was June, but I think like in April or May, in the Buddha Hall, as I remember it, and it seemed like it was on a Saturday. like during the day, not at night. He was giving a Dharma talk in the Buddha hall, and it seemed to me like he looked right at me and said, things teach best when they're dying. And I wondered afterwards if everybody felt like he was looking at them and telling them. But it seemed like he looked right at me and said, things teach best when they're dying. And I kind of thought, oh, well, yeah, why are you telling me that? I didn't think, are you telling me, telling us that you're dying?

[13:01]

I didn't think that. And I don't know if he was saying that, but he was dying. And he told us that things teach best when they're dying. Anyway, he certainly did teach well. for that whole year. His teachings really penetrated our hearts, our bodies. We remember very well his teaching that year. And then it was like summertime coming on or late spring and he was going to go to Tassajara for pretty much the whole summer was the plan and I was director at Eno of the city center and I said to him that I would kind of like to go with him to Tassajara and he kind of said okay and then I said but a lot of other people would like to go probably so you know again it would be kind of selfish of me to go and give up my job

[14:20]

I brought it up, but then I right away said, it seems kind of unfair for me to go. And then he said, oh, yeah, right. And then he said, well, maybe something will work out. I didn't know it would be the last teaching that he would be doing, you know, formally, but it was. And he really worked hard. to give teachings that summer. People, before they knew he was sick, they felt like he was really putting himself out. And he's also working hard in the stone garden over there. You might say, people said, he's knocking himself out. Working hard in his last summer at Tassajara. So I didn't go and I missed all that.

[15:31]

And then it seemed like towards the end of August he came back to Zen Center with an aura of sickness. He came back and his skin was turning yellow. And A doctor who was visiting from Japan thought he had, well, he had jaundice, but turns out it was liver cancer. So he came back and now he realized, yeah, and he gathered the priests together in his room and told us that he had cancer. And then we moved into September and so on.

[16:38]

And as I told you, I think Katagiri Roshi had already resigned. And so the plan developed that his successor, Richard Baker, would come back from Japan and would become Abbot. And Suzuki Roshi said to me, command you to be his jisha. And he never used the word command with me before. And I just listened to him say, I command you. And I don't know if I even said anything, but the answer was, of course, yes. At some point, quite a long time afterwards, I told Beka Roshi that Suzuki Roshi said, I command you.

[17:42]

And he was not happy to hear that. But anyway, he said, I command you. And then later he said, quite a bit later, when he was really quite close to death, he said, do you know why I commanded you? And I said, No, I don't know why. And he said, because, I don't know if he said Zen Tatsu or Baker. He said, we're quite different. And I want you to stay at Zen Center. And among other things, help Katagiri Roshi. brackets brackets i want you to be close to him because if you're not close to him you might leave zen center because he's different from me but maybe if you're close to him you'll be able to stay close brackets and anyway he [...] is and he is different from Suzuki Rishi but Suzuki Rishi put me close to him

[19:08]

And in the closeness, I was able to stay with him and Zen Center. And Sister Grosje did not tell me when I could leave Zen Center. He just told me that he wanted me to stay. And he, I think, wisely knew that I needed to be close to the abbot in order to stay. And I was close to the abbot. And I was the jisha, his first jisha. And I was jisha in a different way than now we have jishas. I was jisha not just at the city center, but also at Tassar. So wherever he went, I went with him. And then Zen Center acquired Gringold.

[20:12]

And so when he went to Gringold, I would go to Gringold. So I was abbot. I mean, I was the jisha to the abbot for almost a year. That was my only job. So I was very close to him and I continued to be close with him up till now. I'm still close to him, but we live far apart. And Susan Gershi did teach really well as he was dying.

[21:25]

And as I told you, I was allowed to be in the room when he received his massage and moxibustion treatments. And I could see how that was done. And one day, the priest who was doing these treatments was sick. And Suzuki Rishi said to me, you do it. And I could substitute because I'd been watching. So I did what I'd seen. For example, I watched the priest put the pine pitch cones on spots on his back and the spots, you could see the spots, and that he would put them on and set them on fire, and they would burn down, and they would burn down, and when Suzuki Roshi winced, he would take the cone off.

[22:37]

So I put the cone on and set it on fire and watched the cone burn down until they winced, and then I took it off. And my treatments were acceptable to the teacher. And then as we approached the December session, which was going to start, On December 4th, on December 3rd maybe, or December 2nd, I told Bhikkhu Roshi that, you know, we're talking about the Sashin, and I said that maybe I would be doing these treatments for Suzuki Roshi. And he said, well, that might not work with your responsibilities as Jisha.

[23:44]

there were no more treatments because on the morning of the fourth he passed away When the great teacher Matsu was about to die, the director of the monastery came to see him and said, how is your venerable health, teacher?

[25:28]

And Master Ma said, sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. Sun-faced Buddha refers to, it's a name of Buddha, which refers to a Buddha that lives one day and one night. Moon-faced Buddha is a name of Buddha that lives 18,000 years or 18,000 eons. Anyway, the Buddha that lives a long time. How is your health? Sun-faced Buddha, Moon-faced Buddha. And this teaching of a dying teacher is highly valued over the centuries by the Zen people.

[26:56]

And I've been wondering for a long time about this great appreciation of this story. And little by little, I appreciate it more and more. And people from Green Gulch know that I've been talking about it at Green Gulch quite a bit last summer. And I've been talking about it other places, too. For me, it's not that sun-faced Buddha The long-living Buddha is better or worse than the Buddha that lives for one day. The Buddha that lives for one day gets to teach really well because it's dying. But there's also a Buddha that lives a long time. Madsha is not saying I'm the sun-faced Buddha or the moon-faced Buddha.

[28:04]

He's saying sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. These two Buddhas are turning on each other. Are pivoting on each other. That's how I am. I'm a one-day priest and I'm a eon-long priest. I'm the home lever. I'm self-no-self. I'm no me or mine. I'm no birth and no death. I'm no arising and ceasing. I'm the constant pivot. That's my health. I'm dying now, yes, but I'm also pivoting with the undying.

[29:07]

That's how I am today. I'm the always Buddha, Masu says, which completely includes The momentary Buddha. The Buddha just now. This story, sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha, is the third story in the Blue Cliff Record.

[30:30]

The Blue Cliff Record is a collection of 100 stories of face-to-face transmission. This moon-faced Buddha, sun-faced Buddha, is one story of face-to-face transmission. of Matsu and the director. And the person who made the collection, his name was something like Suedo, and he wrote a verse celebrating this story. Some people say, he had a hard time writing a verse on this story. And the verse in English goes something like, sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha.

[31:32]

What kind of people were the ancient emperors? 20 years of bitter struggle. How many times have I gone down into the cave of the green dragon for you? Clear-eyed, patch-robed monks do not take this story lightly. There's some ambiguity in 20 years of bitter struggle. Who's 20 years of bitter struggle? Is it sway-do's 20 years of bitter struggle?

[32:36]

Bitter struggle. Well, what's the bitter struggle? Is the bitter struggle going down into... the green dragon cave? Is that the bitter struggle? Could be. During this session, maybe some of us have had a bitter struggle. Going down into the cave of the green dragon. Who are we going down into the cave for? Did Suedo go down into the cave for Matsu? Did Suedo go down into the cave for us who are reading the poem? Some of us wouldn't be able to go down into the cave

[33:50]

green dragon cave if it was just for ourselves. But maybe we can go down into the cave and go through the bitter struggle of entering that cave and sitting in the center of all that suffering. Maybe we can do that for you. Clear-eyed, patch-rowed monks, do not take this lightly. Take it to heart and think about whether you want to go down, not want to, anyway, whether you're going to attempt to go down into this cave for the welfare of this world. You have been going down into it You have been into it.

[34:51]

Day after day, you go down into this cave. Do you want to continue to go down into the cave for the sake of all beings to find your place with Matsu? and Suzuki Rishi and Shakyamuni Buddha sitting at the center of this world responding appropriately to the calls Thank you very much for helping me practice with you during this session.

[36:26]

Thank you very much. I have no complaints. You have practiced very well. Therefore, I could join you. Tomorrow I might leave this valley, but I'm planning to come back. I'm going to leave some of the robes that I don't own. And if I come back, as I'm coming over the road, particularly after reaching the summit and coming down, I'm going to remember 50 years of coming down that road.

[37:59]

And I'm going to experience 50 years of memories of coming down into this valley. If there's anything you'd like to express before I leave, you're welcome to do so. Yes.

[39:01]

Thirty years ago when Eleanor and I left this place, we weren't chanting the names of the women teachers, and I very much appreciate that we are now. I enjoyed or liked the stories you told about, too. I wonder if you have any more stories that we could hear. I actually want to tell one of the stories again. The story about the Chinese woman teacher named Miao Xin. If I'm going to listen to a story here, I might topple over what's out of my season. Okay.

[41:02]

Thank you for taking care of the body. Myoshin was living in the monastery called Yangshan. And the teacher there is called Yangshan. And she was one of the senior staff. She was sort of in charge of the business office, which took care of donors and merchants and lay people. And once a group of 17 monks came from what we now call Shichuan,

[42:05]

to meet Yangshan, the master Yangshan. And they were staying maybe like in the guest house in the lower part of the monastery. And they were discussing the story of the sixth ancestor coming upon some monks who were debating whether the flag moves or the wind moves, and the sixth ancestor said, it's the mind that moves. They were talking about that, expressing their understanding. And Miao Xin was in a room nearby and heard them and said out loud, but they couldn't hear. these blind asses, these blind asses, these blind donkeys, they've worn out lots of straw sandals for no use.

[43:14]

They have not met the Buddha Dharma even in a dream, she said. And one of her assistants heard her and went and told the 17 monks. And instead of getting upset and defensive, and yeah, they felt, I don't know, embarrassed, I would say, to have their shortcomings pointed out in this way. And so they got formally dressed and went to meet Miao Xin and paid their respects to her and asked for her teaching.

[44:21]

And she said, come closer. And as they were coming closer, she said, it's not the wind that moves. It's not the flag that moves. It's not your mind that moves. And they all awoke to the unborn and asked to become her disciple. And they went through a ceremony where they became her disciples. And not too long after that, they went back to Sichuan. as a retelling of the earlier story. In the earlier story, you said she told him to go away? Yeah, so I take that back. She might have told him to go away later because they did leave.

[45:24]

She might have said, go back and take care of the people in the mountains of Sichuan. And another story is about... How many stories did you want to hear? Another story is... Well, since I'm leaving, maybe I should tell several. I said, when you topple, that will be my signal. I tell you. Suzuki Roshi Okusan during difficult times at Zen Center perhaps the most difficult time at Zen Center when Abbot Richard Baker Roshi was

[46:37]

struggling about whether to stay at Zen Center or not. After he had been Abbott for like maybe 12 years. 1983. This is happening. Really hard times. And Oksan said to me, sometimes when people take care of something, for a long time, they think they own it. Just like me, taking care of that robe for 46 years, my unconscious mind thinks that it owns that robe. And so she pointed that out, that part of the problem of Zen Center was people...

[47:38]

really taking care of Zen Center really well, and then slipping into thinking that they own it. How can we take care of something without becoming possessive? I see that. Like a body, how do you take care of a body without thinking that you own it, without slipping into it? You can think that you own it, but without grasping that idea. another story about this little girl who calls me daddy.

[49:01]

Want to hear that one? So this little girl had a friend stay over for the night. I think the friend's name was Chloe. And they had a really nice time. They were really loving to each other. Yeah, they had a wonderful night. And then Chloe's mother came to pick up Chloe. And when Chloe's mother came in and sat down, Chloe ran over to her mother and sat on her mother's lap.

[50:05]

And then Chloe and her mother left. And the girl who calls me daddy said to me and her mother, she did that just to make me, just to hurt my feelings. Did you follow that? Did you follow that? Yeah. And then, did you follow that? So these two girls are very close and the visiting girl's mother comes and the girl runs away from my daughter and goes and jumps on her mother's lap. And then after they leave, the daughter says, she did that just to hurt my feelings. Is that clear? Can you imagine such a thing? And then later, the girl... Because my daddy was sitting on my lap. And her mother said to her, did you do that just to hurt my feelings? And my daughter said, she's like eight, she said, okay, I'll give her another chance.

[51:22]

I'll watch her at school tomorrow. So then when she came home from school the next day, we said to her, well, what did you see? And she said, I saw that I was getting angry at her because of what I thought about her. you for pulling these questions into the room. A few days ago, I told the story of your dad and seeing Suzuki Roshi's picture on your altar.

[53:52]

And your dad said, oh, he's your real dad, isn't he? I feel the same way with my teacher Joan. She's my real mom because my mom couldn't transmit. She didn't know how to love. So is it the case that for some people the dharmic relationship becomes more important than the relationships?

[55:05]

think the Dharma relationship maybe um brings the blood relationship to its full potential because you wouldn't be here able to practice if it weren't for your mom but your mom couldn't bring you to the point you've reached so far and beyond but so in some sense your your Dharma mother is your second teacher or your second benefactor after your mother to bring you like your mother brought you into being a young man and she did that by face-to-face transmission and then your dharma teacher takes you the next step by face-to-face transmission your mother brought you to maybe to have a self and your dharma teacher brings you to have a self that's not a self.

[56:10]

So you can't have the second one without the first one. So it's appropriate to be very grateful to your mother because she made it possible for you to meet your Dharma mother. But they have different roles. Now it's possible that your mother could have been birth mother and your Dharma mother. And that does sometimes happen. But the important thing is that you get the number of mothers you need. So you've got two so far. And then maybe you'll have one more called Prajnaparamita. you're very fortunate and I'm happy that you're using your good fortune well.

[57:17]

Please continue. I feel very fortunate. very much for this question and sharing about how much the chanting the lineage, or not the lineage, but the names of the women ancestors means because where I practiced before, we didn't do that.

[58:36]

And that's meant a lot to me practicing here. And yeah, thank you Tenshin Rishi for the stories that you shared. in response to Dan's question. And yeah, I felt very appreciative of the way that you told the story of . Somehow this time I felt more connected to it and more, yeah, just able to hear those details of the story. It's a lot to me. I actually, you know, I had asked the other day for the stories, and then it was a couple days ago, the day after, I was just doing some stretching, and I noticed some sadness.

[59:37]

And I was like, oh, what is this sadness? And I realized it was... all the stories that you had selected to tell so far in the classes and in the Sashims had been about male ancestors that I could remember. And so, yeah, I just had this feeling of wishing for you to say more about women and not like just in response to questions because that felt like oh I have to make a special request and so in that sense it there was this feeling of kind of we're telling the family history like that was the frame but I felt like women weren't women's stories weren't necessarily coming out as like a main part of that story and it

[60:46]

I know that's a narrative that I'm telling about it. I think it touched into, I realized, oh, I have these other times that I felt hurt, history books in school or literature classes with lots of dead white males and so on, just feeling, yeah, just how much I connect with this practice and want women's stories to be, I know in some way we have to make somewhat different effort because there is a tradition of kind of here's the buddhas and ancestors that's the male lineage you know and and so those stories are laid out in that way so anyway i just i wanted to say that i really appreciated you sharing those stories in this way today and how much it means to me um yeah when those are featured as part of these family stories

[61:48]

I feel this fence passing. Struggle. I express my deep gratitude. Yes.

[63:49]

Yes. I'm thirsty. May I have a sip of your water? So delicious. We're enacting a tradition. Well, I think the fear makes the monster.

[64:53]

The fear makes the monster. And so at Green Gulch, this is like in the, it may have been your child's book. There was a book, this is a time when the serving crew served the same meal, breakfast, breakfast, breakfast. And we ate afterwards in the old library, you know, where the office now is. And there was a book, a child's examination book, that said, The Book of Fear. So I looked at the title of that book for seven days. And as soon as the session is over, I went and opened it. Blank, of course. But there's more. But he made the capsule book. Yes. The fear makes the monster.

[66:00]

And the monster is calling for compassion. an opportunity. Sincere gratitude to you and to this great assembly just for being here.

[67:58]

Thank you. Ruchi, right now I'm on a cliff. I'm overlooking the vast ocean. my feet over the ledge, all of this just to feel what it's like and to be vulnerable. Is there anything, is there any more that I could do? It's not exactly more. It's just that now you're sitting on the ledge with your feet hanging down and you're open to your vulnerability.

[69:03]

Your vulnerability is calling to you and you're listening to it. And then it will call again and you can listen again. And maybe... Also, there will be a call to jump into the water. And you'll listen to that. And then maybe from the listening, you'll jump. But you might just keep listening and sit on the ledge. But just moment by moment, listen to the call of your vulnerability, which is inseparable from the great ocean. respond well listening is a response you're being called and when you listen and you are listening that's your response also you're calling so keep calling and keep listening moment by moment and be guided by that practice and find your place where you already are

[70:22]

And from there, continue to call and listen and call and listen. I heard that story you mentioned about Suzuki Roshi doubling over spitting out bile didn't go to the doctor waited and it reminds me of a story Fu told me just the other day that when you broke your femur you crawl on the floor got into a chair and did the priest meeting for seeking medical attention

[72:05]

It just seems that Zen practice just isn't good for recovering from health issues. Well, I would tell a different story. I'd love to hear it. I had a procedure done to remove some screws from my femur. doctor said there was a risk factor that it's possible that in removing the screws like there could be a fracture so they remove the screws took a picture and they didn't see his fracture and I walked out of that procedure and felt fine but then after a few days you know I was when I first walked out it my hip hurt a little bit from the surgery but Actually, I was walking around Green Gulch and Julian said, hey, you're walking around already.

[73:13]

And I was walking up and down stairs. But then after a few days, the pain started coming and it started to increase. So I went to see the doctor. They took a picture and they still couldn't see a fracture. So the doctor said, well, why don't you just maybe use some or something just you know be careful and so I was using walking poles and walking you know hand poles and I was walking around the house and I tripped on the rug and caught a lot of weight with this leg and then this big pain came And I had an appointment. So I was in my pajamas. So I got dressed for the appointment. And then after the appointment, I called the doctor.

[74:21]

And anyway, to make a long story short, I got an appointment to go see the doctor. But yeah, so I did seek medical attention after this big pain came. So I was having some pain and then I got a big pain. And I didn't think, maybe I just broke the head of my femur off. I didn't think that. I could have. And so I called the doctor and I got an appointment the next day to go in and have another x-ray. So that night, with my broken leg, I did have a priest meeting. And I was, you know, I was just in the walking pole, so I wasn't putting a lot of weight on this leg. But I was happy to have the priest meeting and discuss dharma.

[75:25]

But I did seek medical attention. So first this happened, which turned out at that moment my femur didn't break. It was fractured. So that just a little... And it went from a fracture to a dislocation. And so I did right away after getting dressed. And after I got dressed, I thought, you got dressed. It was something. It was a major accomplishment. And anyway, I had the meeting. And I called the doctor and got the appointment. But they didn't say, come in right away. If they had said, come in right away, I would have gone up for that. And I wouldn't have gone to the priest meeting. Because if they took an x-ray right away, they would have seen what it was. And then I would have gone in for surgery.

[76:29]

But they didn't see what it was. So they waited until the next day. But when they saw what it was, then I went to the emergency room. And so I did seek medical attention before the break because it was painful. And then after the break, I sought it and then had this big operation. So that's another version of the story, which includes that after it was broken, I did have a priest meeting. But I had made arrangements for x-rays before the meeting. But again, they didn't say, come in right away. So that's another version of the story. Yeah, it feels like... That's another version of Zen practice. I mean, I felt like a coward leaving right before Sashin to get my health taken care of.

[77:33]

The whole week I felt terrible. I... You know, I felt like I wasn't doing, like I questioned whether I was doing the right thing. You know, you read all these stories and you hear these things, like you have to practice, like your head's on fire. You know, it turned out my issue was actually, it was distressing, but very minor, which is good. But it's just like, I have a lot of other physical issues. Yeah, so one of the things I've been bringing up is the teaching. that Buddhas are sitting in the middle of fierce flames, turning the wheel of Dharma. And so some of the flames that you're sitting with, some of the flames you're trying to find your seat with, here's a flame. Ready? Coward! Coward! That's a flame. Lazy bum! Those are flames.

[78:37]

Running away from pain. That's another flame. These are cries of the world. And so the Buddhas are sitting in the middle of coward. Running away. I'm better than other people. I'm not as good as other people. Other people should be better. All these flames. These are flames. These are suffering flames. Our practice is to sit in the middle of them. And maybe tomorrow there won't be any coward flames coming up. Some other flames. But we're in the middle of more or less infinite flames. That's where we are. And Buddhists fully accept that position. So we're training. take our place how do you balance uh like there's these flames that say coward in these flames and say you need to go get help like you know sometimes well it isn't exactly that you balance the calls but you sit in the middle of them upright you listen to you need help wimp you need help coward

[80:10]

You should face difficulty. All these cries, all these cries, we sit in the middle of them and when we find our settled place, we maybe pick up the phone and call the doctor. Or we don't. And sometimes not calling the doctor is good. And sometimes it's not. When our ancestor Yao Shan, met his teacher, Shurto. He said, you know, please show me the way. I've been practicing a long time. I don't really feel like I've found my place. And Shurto said, being like this won't do. Being not like this won't do either. Being both this way and not this way won't do it all.

[81:17]

How about you? So it's not to balance being like this and not being like this. It's like to not be either and to be in the middle and be upright. And then when the ancestor says, how about you? You can answer. You can say, I'm going to call the doctor. Or I'm going to sit here and have some water with you because there's no telephone service. But I can be here with you and I can die here with you or live here with you. I'm practicing being upright in the middle of these flames. And then somebody comes and says, the phone service has been reestablished.

[82:24]

And you can make a call now if you want. And you make the call. But while you make the call, you don't give up your seat. You're trained, no matter what's going on, to accept the responsibility of being where you are, which is in the middle of all suffering and you've settled there. It's been hard and you know you've arrived. And the next moment you settle again. This is your ongoing opportunity and responsibility as a sentient being bodhisattva is to be there. And if you can be there, all these things will balance and you will be able to do the appropriate response to all these flames. You should take care of yourself and wimp. You should take care of yourself and you shouldn't take care of yourself.

[83:25]

This is the Buddha's way, right? He discovered a middle way between you should take care of yourself and you should take care of others. Forget about yourself and just take care of other people. Okay, I hear you. Forget about others and take care of yourself. Okay, I hear you. It's the addiction to those. Upright. You're not leaning towards being tough guy or being coward. You're not leaning either way. You're listening to both sides. That's your place. That's your middle way here. And it's an ongoing challenge to keep balanced with all this stuff coming out at you. But you're learning. You're learning. You're learning. You're training. sir my legs hurt your legs are calling to you and you're listening

[84:30]

I express my gratitude for hearing all the stories of our ancestors. I'm expressing my gratitude for hearing all the stories of our ancestors. Could you hear? And I find deep encouragement in these stories. And there's one story that I think I resonate with and I struggle to find the encouragement with. And it's the story of Master, sorry, Emperor Wu. Emperor Wu, yeah. Emperor Wu, who didn't understand. Right. And whose teacher left, or the teacher left now to come again. How do I relate to that story? I'm not sure if it's a question of how to practice without your teacher or when your teacher's gone. or if it's a question of the disappointment and missing the mark and not understanding, missing the opportunity, not asking the right questions.

[86:16]

Well, you know, I'm planning to leave tomorrow. I know. But, you know, if you want to come with me, Maybe we should reconsider. Because it might... Some other people might want to come too. Right? So maybe you won't come with me. Even though maybe you'd like to. Just like I wanted to go. He left. Suzuki Roshi left me. And... When Bodhidharma left the emperor, the emperor could have said, can I come with you? Didn't he ask to call him back? Yeah, he has to call him back. But it wasn't the attendant, it was the court teacher. It was the imperial Buddhist master who said, that guy who just left, you know, that was Avalokiteshvara.

[87:19]

And the emperor says, well, let's have him come back. And the court teacher didn't say, ask him to come back? You should follow him. Don't cough. You know... You don't give him orders. He already came to see you once. You go to Shaolin and sit with him for nine years. He could have gone with Bodhidharma. Bodhidharma was available and he didn't go with him. And what if your teacher goes away and you can't follow him? Well, in my case. The important point is that The emperor might not have been able to go with Bodhidharma, but did he want to? He might have said to Bodhidharma, where are you going? Bodhidharma says, I'm going to go practice in a cave. You're welcome to come. And the emperor said, I'd like to come, but I have a lot of responsibilities here being emperor.

[88:22]

And Bodhidharma might have said, I understand. Well, maybe something will work out. The important thing is, You want to go with the teacher. And the emperor didn't understand, and he didn't want to go with Bodhidharma in that story. Sometimes the teacher goes away, but you're welcome to come if it works for your karma. The important thing is you want to go with the teacher. And if he wanted to go with Bodhidharma, we'd have this strange situation of having the emperor be Bodhidharma's disciple. which we can handle that, but he didn't want to. He didn't want to go away from the palace to study with this great bodhisattva. But he could have. He could have. But even if he didn't go, I shouldn't say he could have, but even if he couldn't go, if he wanted to go, that's the point.

[89:23]

If you can't go and you want to go, it's basically you're with your teacher. And if you haven't found a teacher and you want to find a teacher, you're basically doing practice if you want to be with a teacher, even if you haven't found one. So I would say that's a very important part of the story, is that he found out who this person was and he didn't say, in the story he didn't say, I want to go with him. He didn't say that, he said, call him back. I'm the emperor. Call him back. No. He won't come back. But if you go to him, he will accept you after you stand in the snow overnight. But if you make the trip and are sincere, you can practice with him.

[90:25]

That's the way I understand the story. The emperor didn't care enough to give his very best. He just continued to stay in his emperor thing and call him back. That's not going to work with Bodhidharma. We have to go to, at least want to go to Bodhidharma. And we do want to go to Bodhidharma. I think I hear in that story the point where the emperor feels remorseful. I think he feels a little. Yeah, and he didn't, that part is not written down, that he feels sorry. But he did, he asked a good question, actually. Who is this? And Bodhidharma says, don't know. That was fine. I mean, it's fine that he asked and Bodhidharma's answer is our practice, you know? And then he goes and says, I'm going to go practice now. You can come with me. Didn't say it, though.

[91:30]

And the emperor missed that chance. And maybe later he says, I'm sorry, I missed my chance. If you get excited, it's a pitfall. If you hesitate, you may be lost in regret for a long time. But if you don't hesitate and you just feel like, I want to come with you, You didn't miss your chance. Your chance was, I want to come with you, but I can't because I have these responsibilities. But the thing is, you want to go. You appreciate the opportunity, but you may not be able to go. Your heart's in the right place. So can we all come with you? Yeah. I'll bring you all with me. And, yeah, it's great. it's hard to hear you and not feel like you're going to leave and not come back, or that you're dying, or that we're dying, or that this is all passing away very quickly.

[93:25]

Yes. And I feel a very strong question rise up in me in response to that, which is how do we serve you? How do we serve the universe? How do we give back everything that you've given us, that we've been given? Well, the first thing that pops in my head was I think maybe the same day or the next day after I was ordained, after Sussu Greshi gave me Buddha's robe and welcomed me as a priest. I said to Suzuki Oksan is there some gift I can give to Suzuki Roshi to express my gratitude and she said practice so that's the main gift you give your Zen teacher is to practice Zen you can give other stuff too but that's the main thing you can give water and tea

[94:40]

When you give the water, it should be practice. I've been acting our practice. So that's the main thing that you give back to the one who transmitted the practice, is you give back the practice. You transmit it back all the way to Buddha. It got transmitted all the way to you, you transmit it all the way back. And also transmit it to everybody else. That also that also repays the gift is to share the gift with everybody, with the whole unlimited sangha. I have a question, too, about your particular expression of the dharma. What would you say you're teaching it? also intend to give up trying to come back.

[96:08]

Give up trying to control my return. And now I'm trying to give up trying to control my departure. Laughter Pitching option When the head hits the ground and the palms are open, the great matter is resolved.

[97:12]

So what is there to lift up? I'll repeat it. They're being called to do so. When the head hits the ground and the palms are open, the great matter is resolved. So what is there to lift up? The great matter. Or even you're lifting up the realization of the great matter. You're offering it. But again, we're not saying that's something. So it's an offering, not putting something above something else. It's not putting something above something. It's like, this is like offering. You're offering something like this because you think it's a good gift.

[98:16]

It's not like you're offering like that. You're saying, this is something I really think, this is something I really want to give you. I think it's a nice thing. It's not trash. It's something that's good. Like Suzuki Rishi, you know, right after the war, Japanese industry was pretty much shot. So there were... They were basically making trinkets to export, just little pieces of junk that people, you know, somehow, they were cute junk that people would buy around the world, but they weren't yet able to make, you know, Toyotas. And Szugurashi wanted to give America something really good. He wanted to bring Zazen and said, here, Americans, this is... This is still a high-quality Japanese gift. And he offered it up to us, you know? This is our best thing I have to offer.

[99:18]

So it's not that this is better than other things, even though I said best. This is just a really excellent gift. So I offer it like this, rather than just toss it on the ground for you. And even if I put it on the ground, I would put it there, you know, respectfully. That's this lifting this up. They also made bicycles. The gun manufacturers in Japan started making guns and started making really good bicycles. Yeah. But there's still something that appears to be happening in this school and all schools. whether it does appear to be just lifting up and some putting down, too. Well, the lifting up, I can accept and work with it. The putting down, we recommend giving that up.

[100:20]

We don't... Well, you can put things down if you go with them. That's okay. If I'm going to put something down, I want to go down there with it. Putting down may be sometimes useful. Getting down close to the earth. But not staying up, putting myself up and putting other things down. That's no good. So when we put the Buddha up on the altar, it's not really lifting him up? I think it is lifting the Buddha up. Why can't he sit down next to John? Because John's sitting there. Oh, I see. Well... We have Myotin sitting next to John. Myotin's the Buddha sitting next to John. Everybody's on the same level in this room. So we could lift the hatans a little higher. But the point is, everybody's a Buddha in this room.

[101:24]

And so maybe the Buddha's up higher. But the point is, when we sit in a zendo, we're all Buddhas. And in some sense, we lift everybody up. And we could put the Buddha down lower, but then it would be hard to see it when we're doing service. Some Asian people come and they say, you should raise your Buddhas higher. Anyway, the feeling should be that everybody's on the same level and If we raise things up, it's okay to ask why we're raising them up. But I don't think we should have to put anybody down lower. But if they go down lower, we've got to go down with them. May our intention equally extend to every being and place.

[102:59]

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