This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. So first of all, I want to express my gratitude and appreciation to the Tonto David for inviting me to speak tonight. It's always an honor and a privilege to be invited to give a talk here. And, you know, there's a bit of a difference, for me at least, in giving a talk on a Saturday morning and a Wednesday evening. So on a Saturday morning,

[01:01]

there seems to be a larger preponderance of new people, new folks. And on Wednesdays, I feel like I'm talking to the cognoscenti, though I see some faces here I've not seen before, so I apologize if anything I say doesn't make sense. But on a Saturday morning, when I talk on a Saturday morning, I feel the need to address myself more to the newer people. So to explain more, to keep it simpler, because we want, I think, to give people who come here perhaps for the first time a sense of that they're taking away something nice that they like, that they got something good, that maybe they would like to come back. And little do they know that, in fact, what we have just given them is a piece of poison candy, a baited hook, honey on a razor blade.

[02:04]

So on a Wednesday evening, the talk can be a little bit more sophisticated for you, a more sophisticated audience. So the first thing I want to say and the most important thing that I'm going to say all evening, and I'll remind you of it a couple of times, is this. Everything I say is wrong. Okay? That's important to remember. So a few weeks ago, I had dinner with a friend, someone I don't see a whole lot, but I've known him for quite a while. And during the course of our conversation over dinner, he mentioned in sort of a casual way that he had decided to stop using pot. I was a little bit surprised because I didn't know that he used it at all. And it hadn't become like a huge burden for him. It was just a decision that he made for a number of reasons. So in the course of our conversation, I said, so just out of curiosity, how often do you use it? And he paused for a moment and said, every day, he said, I just want to be happy. So that's kind of the bottom line, isn't it?

[03:12]

We all want to be happy. Everyone, I believe, is looking for relief of the radical anxiety that lies at the as most of you know, is usually translated as suffering, although that's only a very narrow translation of the entire concept. So, what do we do about this? About this desire to end our radical anxiety? Well, there are various answers and strategies in the various spiritual traditions, both the many Buddhist traditions and of course, those outside of Buddhism as well. So recently, I've been reading a bit about Shin Buddhism, or Pure Land Buddhism. And for those of you who don't know it, just a very brief synopsis is Pure Land Buddhism is based on the vows of Amida Buddha.

[04:22]

Amida Buddha is the standing Buddha just behind me. And among the many vows that he made, was that when he became a Buddha, he would create a pure land, and that beings who called upon his name in faith would upon death be reborn in that pure land. And in a pure land, it's very easy to become awakened, enlightened. And as you may have noticed, in this realm, our human realm, it's not so easy. As a matter of fact, it's really hard. So this is sometimes called the easy path. other power, right? Because you think, you know, all you have to do is have faith in the vow of Amida Buddha, call on him with sincerity, and he's going to take care of the rest. Okay? You know, that sounds pretty easy and, you know, pretty good deal. But in fact, the more I read, the more I realized that it's not quite that easy. One must develop what is called shinjin, the mind of faith.

[05:29]

So I'm gonna read you a little something from an essay about Shin Buddhism that I've been reading. So bear with me. It goes like this. Any form of faith, so long as it remains an expression of the will to believe, can never be pure. It is branded with a self-willed character. It is mixed and defiled with calculation, self-interest, suppress doubt, et cetera. Pure faith must be something cleared of all these defilements and mixtures. As such, genuine faith is most difficult to attain because it could not take place without some otherness coming from beyond and working upon us. In the awakening of faith, we experience a breakthrough at the root of delusion. we realize how delusive, insincere, and sinful we have been.

[06:33]

Our self-complacency breaks down this moment. We are emptied through and through. At the same moment, however, we find ourselves decisively taken in by Amida's sincerity. We, for the first time, attain true restfulness because the deepest root of our existential anxiety or suffering, namely ignorance, is cut through forever. So, it seems to me, reading this and other things, that the easy way still demands a cultivation of initial anxiety as the precondition for a release into faith and ease. So what he's saying here is that, you know, Our faith in Amida's vow and our faith in ourselves and our willingness to accept Amida's vow must continually be questioned and questioned and questioned and pushed to the breaking point.

[07:37]

This reminds me a lot of the literature on Koan study. In Koan study, one takes the mind to a place of extreme distress, putting an incredible amount of pressure on it, on the mind, until something's gotta give. This is how koans are approached. And we may claim otherwise, actually, for Shikantaza of Soto Zen and its claim of practice, realization, practice and realization arising together and being essentially the same thing. But, in fact, Dogen is pretty clear that realizing that there is nothing to realize is pretty hard work. So this is also very much in function and form, like the Christian struggle about the suffering that precedes the realization of salvation.

[08:41]

You can read this particularly if you're interested in some of the spiritual writings of our Puritan ancestors. Very, very concerned about coming to accept and having a breakthrough of faith that they were indeed among the saved and the elect. It put some of these people through incredible hell. So in each of these different spiritual techniques, if you will, that deal with the desire for the release of anxiety, each of these demands that anxiety be increased to the breaking point. And interestingly, or perhaps not oddly enough, but perhaps obviously enough, each of these offers resolution to only in its own context. So for example, someone deeply engaging with Mu is not going to come out the other side into some resolution of his or her spiritual anxiety by realizing that she has been saved through the sacrifice of Christ, or vice versa.

[09:49]

Somebody struggling with his Christian faith is not going to come out the other side with resolution by realizing that all things are empty. So all of these remedies, in a sense, come from setting up the situation and thereby the existential answer. And the answer is only and always found in the context that is created in establishing the anxiety and resolving the anxiety. As a reminder, everything I say is wrong. So these experiences, however they are defined, are in fact quite profound for the person experiencing them. But what happens after the initial experience of Kensho, our grace? The living experience becomes a memory.

[10:55]

and the memory becomes a story, and the story becomes a history, and often a history becomes an orthodoxy and creates a new context for anxiety and its release. But memory is not trustworthy. In fact, if we examine closely the functioning of memory, you find, I believe, that it is the same as the function of fantasy. or a dream. Think of how you remember or recount a dream. A little bit here, a little bit there, an image, a phrase, a word, but largely pieced together afterwards from fragments into a semi-coherent whole that can form a narrative. So this memory of experience of release, this memory of the spiritual breakthrough Entire religious structures are built around it.

[11:57]

And it's a bit like a perfume, right? So you have this wonderful perfume, but if you kind of just like leave it in a bowl, it's going to evaporate. You'll never be able to use it again. So we need to have it in something, right? And our religious traditions, our spiritual traditions are the containers for this spiritual experience. But as time goes by, pretty much it always happens that the container becomes more important than what's in it. The reliquary becomes more and more encrusted with gems and filigree until you can't get at the scent for the jewels. Some of you knew and some of you will have heard of Isan Dorsey, a priest of this temple and later of Hartford Street. Anyhow, it reminds me of something that he said about all of this, the statues, the cushions, the 13th century Japanese clothing that he would have called drag.

[13:03]

He said, all of this is just the paraphernalia that Zen students need to keep their trip going. Yeah, I think he understood all of this as theater. And he was very meticulous about his theater. He was very careful of his drag. Theater is important, but it is theater. Let me read you another poem, or a poem rather. This is by C.P. Cavafy, a Greek poet of the early 20th century. He lived in Alexandria for most of his life, the old poet of the city. For some people, there's a day when they have to come out with the great yes or the great no. It's clear at once who has the yes ready in him, and saying it, he goes on to find honor strong in his conviction.

[14:09]

He who refuses never repents. Asked again, he'd still say no. And yet that no, the right answer, defeats him the whole of his life. It's a short poem, so I'll read it again. Oh, and for those of you who like titles, it's called, The line is from Dante. It means, He Who Made the Great Refusal. There's a great story about it, but not now. For some people, there's a day when they have to come out with the great yes or the great no. It's clear at once who has the yes ready in him. And saying it, he goes on to find honor strong in his conviction. He who refuses never repents. Asked again, he'd still say no. Yet that no, the right answer, defeats him the whole of his life. So the right answer is the razor under the honey that I spoke of earlier.

[15:17]

Zen practice, then, is not... to give you anything. It's rather to take everything away. If you give the right answer, you will never be given a brocade robe. You will never be given a staff of authority. No one will ever call you Roshi. And then when you are hungry and thirsty, someone will come and chase you away. Everything I say is wrong. Zen, then, is a street that follows like an argument of insidious intent to lead you to an overwhelming question. It is not a series of techniques to improve your self-esteem or your ability at sports. This is why Manjushri is always holding a sword. Here's another poem.

[16:19]

This one is by Helen Ginsberg. It's called Shakyamuni Coming Out of the Mountain. Shakyamuni is another name for the Buddha. He drags his bare feet out of a cave under a tree. Eyebrows grown long with weeping and hooked nose woe. In ragged soft robes wearing a fine beard. Unhappy hands clasped to his naked breast. Humility is beatness. humility is beatness. Faltering into the bushes by a stream, all things inanimate but his intelligence stands upright there, though trembling. Arhat, who sought heaven under a mountain of stone, sat thinking till he realized the land of blessedness exists in the imagination, the flash come, the empty mirror.

[17:20]

How painful to be born again wearing a fine beard, reentering the world a bitter wreck of a sage, earth before him his only path. We can see his soul. He knows nothing like a god. Shaken, meek, meek, wretch. Humility is beatness before the absolute world. So this... What Ginsburg describes in this poem is not going on to find honor strong in your conviction. This is to practice secretly working within like a fool, like an idiot. But who wants to be a fool? No one really. No one wanted to be a river. No one loved the great leaves. No one the blue tongue of the beach. No one would pause. No one wanted to be a cloud.

[18:22]

No one searched for the ferns. So, any way we play the game, any way the game is played, we lose. And if we are content with received teachings, we betray the ancestors. If we set up a goal, we lose. Or maybe we win, but we still lose. And that's all I have to say. And everything I've said is wrong. So, does anybody else have anything to say? Okay. So my understanding, although I have not gone into great depth of Pure Land teaching, is that the story, there are at least three Pure Land Sutras.

[19:29]

They're sort of late Mahayana from India. And they describe the 48 vows of Amida Buddha. So the story is that when Amida, I can't remember his name before he was a Buddha, but when he was just kind of us guys, he took these great vows. He was inspired by seeing a Buddha in his time, and he decided that he would do whatever it took to become a Buddha, and he made a series of vows, one of which was that he would create this Pure Land, and that anybody who called on him with faith would be reborn into it, and that it would be very easy to become enlightened there. And so the teaching goes back, but one of the ways that it comes down to us is through Shinran, who is a contemporary of Dogen in Japan. And in his way, Dogen, Nichiren, and Shinran were all looking for practices that could be done by everyone. Particularly, Shinran and Nichiren were interested in practices that could be done by non-monastics, by lay people.

[20:36]

But all of these three Kamakura religious reformers centered their religious teaching around one particular practice. Shigantaza, the Nembutsu, Namu Mida Butsu, I take refuge in Amida Buddha, or the Lotus Sutra, Nammyoho Renge Kyo, with Michi Ren. And so, Amida is seen as, in many ways, a savior figure. But, you know, the... the individual has to reach out and meet a response. And so you can go from a very, very almost childish belief in that to a very sophisticated understanding of call and response between self and other. Does that hit any? OK, yeah.

[21:38]

And everything I said was wrong. Yeah. Could you say some more wrong things, please? What does it look like, or what does it mean to you, or what does it look like to practice what school would like to do? In a word, I would say, dropping ambition. You know, dropping the desire for fame and gain, not wanting that brocade robe, not wanting the staff of authority. Yeah? Do you mean participating in the theater or not participating? What do you think? I'm not sure. I mean, here we are.

[22:41]

This is a theatrical production, right? Now we get the whole shebang. I think if we participate in the theater, we have to understand it as theater, and what is positive about that, and what is unreal about it as well, and not take it, perhaps taking the theater seriously, but not ourselves. Yeah. Yes. Can we take that there with one finger? Hi. Gwen, you have to speak a little louder for me to hear. I know, I have this really quiet way of speaking, and everybody, even if it's right here, can barely hear me. All right, this is shattering to me. I'm about to say, the theater doesn't make you better. Because I'm new to this, and this is a different form of Buddhism than I've ever experienced.

[23:47]

But I see that the theater allows me to have a... consistency in my life that calms me. So I think of Zen in a way. I read like 60 books in Hawaii on Zen and Japanese culture and food and everything. And what I notice the most is that all of their detail of each action that they take and how splendid it makes the world is really them just trying to calm themselves, just to be calm. So that's why I clean the dining room every morning I sit the chairs perfectly across from each other. I put the salt and pepper all the same. So when we walk in the room, the eyes are snapped. So it creates a calmness. So that's why I would like to say, if that agrees with what you were saying and everything that I just said is totally wrong. Everything we both said is totally wrong. Nice. Or not totally wrong.

[24:49]

You know, when you were describing how you take care of the dining room, it was... What came to me is that it's like treating each thing as alive and tender. And I think that's beautiful. Thanks. And then what I was going to say before that is that I have a saying, I'm inside myself. Sometimes on the rock, that's the no. And sometimes on the stream, and that's the yes. And sometimes on the stream, and that's the yes. And sometimes on the rock, and that's the no. So everything I say is wrong. Thanks. question. I see you up there in your rooms and I hear you saying that it's all theater and that there is an idea of dropping the ambition. Now, I'm here because I think that I can help people by taking on the role of a priest. And that's an ambition to some extent.

[25:54]

I don't want the road to look pretty. I want it because it's going to help me help people, but that's still an ambition. How do you get all dressed up with that ambition? Well, I'm all dressed up right now because that's what's expected in this particular situation. When I go out, when I go to the jail, when I go to do my other groups with elderly and disabled people, when I go out and do homeless stuff, I don't dress up like a priest. I don't want anything to get in the way of me being able to help. Sometimes the role can be useful. Most of the time, I think it's just, it establishes a hierarchy and an expectation that gets in the way. That's my experience and my take, and it's probably not like that for everybody.

[26:57]

Really appreciate your is different than the ones we normally hear. That's a Wednesday night talk. You were the cognoscenti. John, hi. Hi, Jeffrey. I'm reminded about a year and a half ago, I came to see Blanche. And she was over in the sewing room, helping me out. It was really hard for her to go over in the sewing room. She was wearing shoes. She didn't do very much, but she was wearing shoes. She wanted me to, I think she really wanted me to wake up to the idea that she wasn't going to be around. And somehow I was sitting in front of her, kneeling in front of her, and she was just wearing her everyday suit clothes, but she just committed very curating. And she literally acted it out, and I think she wanted me to say, I'm going. And that's it. And it finally got through, and I cried a lot right there.

[28:01]

And I think she was kind of trying to satisfy. But I never, I was really surprised that she just did this hurt. But then she would just act later on. You mean this one in here? Yeah. That was great. She sat so still. When Blanche died, Blanche is our former abbess, and she died somewhat recently. We brought the body back, and her body was in this room for three days, and we came and sat with her. And she looked so beautiful. I was talking to one of her daughters, and I was commenting on how beautiful Blanche looked. She looked quite regal, don't you think? And one of her daughters, Trudy, said, she looks like she's exactly where she wants to be. Yeah, that was wonderful. Thank you. Yes, sir? I get frustrated losing a lot. I get very frustrated every time I lose. Oh, okay. And that kind of blinds me to what I'm doing because eventually I get to the point where I'm sitting here and I doubt that I'm never going to be more than just somebody face down in the dust.

[29:10]

So that's like one thing that just gets me. I guess what I'm saying is like, how do you lose with dignity? Most of us lose the snot and tears and then pounding on the ground, frankly. It's what comes after that. So here's something that I started to do some time ago, maybe a few years ago. For years and years and years, I thought my zazen was really lousy, right? And at some point I figured, well, after all of these years, it's probably going to stay lousy. So what should I do about this? And so what I do now is when I sit down to sit, I dedicate the merit of my practice to all beings. And that makes it not mine anymore. And it doesn't matter whether I do it well or poorly, whether I win or lose, whether I ever have

[30:18]

Satori or Kensho or whatever, because it's a gift and it's not me and it's not about me and it's not mine. So as long as we set up loss and success, it's always sort of on the basis of how we want to see ourselves. It might be quite noble in many cases, but still, it's set up on the basis of an illusion. And as long as we cling to the illusion, that's the basis of our suffering. It's certainly the basis of my suffering. Even though I can see it intellectually and say these nice words to you, it doesn't mean that I can do it, or very often. But that's what I think. That's what I believe, that when I get rid of my egocentricity, and live and be lived for the benefit of all these, as we say, then it's not so much a question.

[31:25]

Does that respond at all? It resonates. Okay, cool. Thank you. Yes, sir? How do you experience the pure land? How do I experience the pure land? Oh, my. Very rarely, when I'm sitting, I hear the deep organ tones that I used to hear when I sat at Tassajara. You can be next, unless you're just coughing. Tova. going back to the jail every week and all the groups you serve in various ways, taking meditation and doing memorial services, where does that come from in you?

[32:36]

Well, for one thing, it's what you pay me for. It's my job. I would still do it. You know, I used to think it was because I wanted to do good for people, and now I think it's because I see myself. You know, I mean, ever since, you know, I go into the jail and, you know, it's like, I see myself as a prisoner, or a potential prisoner. I've always realized that I could end up homeless. Um... And I feel, to tell you the truth, I often feel more comfortable with prisoners than I do with people who are successful and doing well in the world. I don't know why. I'm sorry.

[33:46]

We're going to do like the auctioneers now, okay? Go in. I'm already very anxious. I live in anxiety. And it's getting better in the last years, but I know I'm an anxious person. And now you're saying, we need to increase our anxiety. How do I do that? I mean, it's already what you say. Everything is wrong. I really feel the peak of anxiety because I'm listening. No, everything is wrong. And I know that I cling to some kind of answer. Okay, so then I need to understand this. Is it like this? And that's how it's wrong. Well, I wasn't saying that we need to increase our anxiety. I was saying that in particular spiritual techniques, like Cohen's study or whatever, that the psychological...

[34:52]

mechanism is to increase the anxiety. Because if you increase the anxiety far enough, something's got to happen. These are somewhat artificial techniques. Now, artificial techniques can also have real consequences, right? And even positive ones. But what I wanted to point out was that these are constructs that we use to get from one place to another. And And you don't have to do them. You don't have to do them. I deal with a lot of anxiety. We all do, I think. It's sort of the basic nature. I use a mantra. All day long, I use a mantra. I recite the refuges all day long. Whenever I'm not talking, reading, writing, or thinking about something specifically, I try to have the refugees going on in the back of my mind.

[35:56]

You know the poly? Very poly. Yes, hi. Hi. So you've mentioned several times that everything you say is wrong. Perhaps I missed it, but why are we trying to put meaning to it, if it's wrong or right. My understanding is that it just is with no judgment in a way, and so I'm trying to better understand the intention here. Could you back up a little and explain what you mean by it? Well, what you're saying, whether it's right or wrong, it just is, or whether we're meditating right or wrong, I've tried to adopt the mentality that it just is and not to attach a meaning to it so that basically my emotions are kind of the reaction to my thoughts. And if I don't put a meaning or right or wrong to it, I then don't have that reaction.

[37:03]

And so a wrong triggers some sort of alarm that goes on. And I want to better understand why I define it as anything Well, first of all, it sounds like what you're doing is perfect. Well, what do you think I meant when I said that everything I said was wrong? That it's not right. Then what does that mean? Well, that there's some sort of dis-ease in some shape or form in what's being said. Maybe I'm a little too logical when I think why... Why go there if it's wrong? And I know there's a purpose. I don't want to get into too much analysis, but everything I say is wrong, because everything I say is incomplete. And any statement I might make is wrong in the sense that it leaves out so much else.

[38:11]

which is also equally accurate. And so basically using that phrase, which is kind of my way of catching your attention, Miss Theater. In honor of your mantra, can you do this? I was thinking, but I wonder if there are enough people in here who know it. We could do that instead of the end. Thank you. That's a lovely idea. I'd like it. That's the end. This is the end, yes. So what we're going to do, for those of you who are not familiar with it, is rather than our customary end of the lecture chant, we're going to do the refuges. So what we're going to be doing, we're going to be doing them in Pali, which is the language of the earliest Buddhist scriptures. And what we're going to be saying is, I take refuge in Buddha, I take refuge in Dharma, I take refuge in Sangha. For a second time, I take refuge... For a third time, I take that fish.

[39:12]

And those of you who don't know the words can just hum along. OK. Marcia? Oh. Yes. . Oh Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center.

[41:18]

Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfzc.org and click Giving.

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