And I'd like to say that before I get to the actual topic of I want to give you a second where I was with my wife for two months. February 10th, April 4th. I'm going to start here.

[01:01]

Okay. Now this is where the, uh... Is that...? I'll take it here. And then the guy right over there had given you the legend of the valley, and he didn't want us there. He wanted to leave here. But there's only one spot. There's a village and a farm yard. And then, uh... It was the Serf family. What was it called? The Serf family. The Serf family? Well, this was very special. And, uh, well, they all had to perform. It's unusual to have this kind of an initiation ceremony. Ah, yes, it is. I mean, indeed. This is the last day of the college shopping.

[02:04]

I'll have to re-write some of it. Well, in the meantime, for a bit, one moment. What's wrong with you? I don't remember. Parents who were there, I knew most of them who were there regularly, but not the ones from Ka'atmaqdu, I didn't know them. But the ones who were there, they were about eight, only about eight. But the two I knew the best were the ones who lived right across the beach from me, that was Joshua and George. But when Brescia told me its name, I couldn't catch it very well, and it sounded to me like Busho. And so from that time, I called him Busho, which is Japanese Buddha nature.

[03:44]

And he's the Dutchman. All these six or eight were studying under a certain learner called Geshe Raptan, a very learned a Lama, he was the tutor of the Dalai Lama. And he doesn't know any English at all. And they would have as an interpreter a young Lama named Gon Sarvekoche, who was a very bright young man who could speak quite a bit of English. In fact, he learned Hindi pretty well, too. And thereby they could get instruction from that very learned Lama Geshe Rab. And he would assign to them deities to meditate on. In other words, after he interviewed them, he decided this particular person should meditate on a separate deity.

[04:50]

So, for example, George was meditating a Naitreya, and Usha was meditating on Vajroshana. Maybe you know those names, Naitreya and Vajroshana? I bet that was Usha. And these monks have this chant. They're chanting to the Dalai Lama, the half-blonde wife, etc. Well, let's give some of this wine a taste, because I think it's... Oh, it's black.

[06:30]

So they, they stopped that, stopped that one. . [...] Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Thank you.

[08:18]

Thank you. There's a leader chanting the dharma for a monk, the Dalai Lama. This chases away the demons. In other words, you first have to consecrate the place, chase away out all the demons that could have a nice, holy place to have in the next three years. But this is now the... But this is now already... All the migraines... They're... They're complicating the flag. I don't know what I mean by this.

[09:38]

I don't have to leave. I don't have to leave. That's it. Thank you. It's right around here that they threw up all those white scars asking instruction from the Dalai Lama. Well, since you don't understand Tibetan, it doesn't matter.

[11:21]

Okay, so anyway, what the fact? Well, you would like to hear some more? Okay. Okay. We heard it before it was chanting and choosing that specialty. Now this is a normal voice. I see starting from now, when he started to speak, they all put those red bands around. He's now speaking to the candidates of the nation who have all the red bands. And all the rest of this private clique, they have the red bands on.

[12:22]

All the rest of it was that nation. I think that all of us do, all of us, we have to understand that we have to do that. And if we try to do it, that's us. That's what we're going to do. We're going to do it. That's what we're going to do. That's what we're going to do. That's what we're going to do. That's not what I did. That's not what I did. I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I didn't know what I was going to do.

[13:24]

I didn't know what I was going to do. I don't know. Okay, let's go again.

[14:26]

We've got to be careful. [...] I'm going to tell you a story. I'm going to [...] tell you a story.

[15:50]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The only good thing that I know is that I am a man of God, which means that I am a man of God. Which means that I am a man of God, which [...] means that I am a man of God, I don't need to go on.

[17:25]

Some of it is a candle, and some is a book, and I don't need to go on. And in the meantime, the audience has to be . They want the . That's just to give you an idea of some Now, to get more to the subject today, which is the questions of the Westerners, you see the Westerners are in this certain situation where they're treading it quickly out of the Tibetan A few years back, the Indian government sort of cracked down on that.

[18:28]

In their defense, there was some good reason. They wanted to discourage the movement of Westerners and some other people they couldn't control to a very border area. They thought they had only, some of them had only a two-tenth of going to the border area, studying on the Tibet, or something, you know. Anyway, they tracked down, they passed some kind of law or ruling that was restricting some of this activity. And this has led to some harassment of these Westerners in some areas. For example, down in Around Sarnoff, right north of Benares, some Westerners had been harassed by the police. But up where I was, there wasn't very much of it.

[19:41]

I couldn't get very well. And George and Bouchot managed to stay for quite a long time up there. in the ridge, even though they were threatened with expulsion by a landlord a couple of times because they had been living on an unauthorized plane flight like you've been there. The Joint Guild for Medication would say, have you been there? Taking in all sorts of other people, we wandered around in a small area. and smoking or using certain narcotics to put my feet to circulate in that area. Well, anyway, but they were still there at Lassie Court, according to the letter he got to me. Probably the only one I got from one of them. This boy, George, is... The Frenchman had no respect at all for his famous city of Paris, who had the view that all cities have been a failure.

[20:52]

They're all a perversion of human nature. So was Paris. He took a trip to Missouri and said, Lucere gathers the richest Indians and the most unpleasant missionaries. But in a way, it is very good to see mundane life and worldly pleasures. Desi Raupin has been retreating for several years, practicing demagogica. That's just the word up there. But now, in this letter, We got, you know... What's in there? Yamantaka. Yamantaka. Well, that's a... Yamantaka is a tantric deity who has overcome Yama, the Lord of Death. Is he sitting meditationally?

[21:55]

Well, there's a little bit more about that in here. Of course, it would be meditation on Yamantaka. or practicing the sadhana vimāntika, the education of vimāntika. It will show that in this letter that Geshe Rakhin had yet to move a little higher up out of the dompa, now five minutes to walk from the around of Jezua. It's because he starts to do a very long meditation, mainly for seven years. One of the subjects is 100,000 transgressions. After that meditation, I'm in Mazda. And the meditation I'm shooting at now, that's voidness. That's not a little haze. Now there are two days teaching.

[23:02]

I think he means by that that he only teaches other people and it's exactly two days a week. They can go out there and get things done in only two days a week. Now, Gina. Gina means to have a girl. Gina is a Swedish girl that married a boy from San Francisco. I know. And they were both meditating on a deity that had been given them by this Tibetan girl. She was already quite deeply a child when we were there. And they said, he said, the deliverance was in the Congregation Hospital. It was quite a long trip, 35 hours, but she was comfortable and in good condition.

[24:02]

Both were living in a small house. which is separated and separated in half though. When a nurse came in and saw the picture of Buddha on the wall, she said, take it off the wall. And it is here a Christian. There you see how narrow-minded they can be. And we're not even in a region where it's quite present. But what do you do such a moment? Hold on. And they don't have much humility. That's the way they have. They don't have much humility. That's what I'm so afraid of. These two and all the rest of them were very sincere and they would get up very early in the morning and don those religious garments and meditate before eating anything.

[25:28]

They'd go through several hours of meditation on that evening. That's the form of Tibetan meditation. You are given a beauty to meditate on. And the procedure, I happen to know from personal experience with that theory, one of the main conceivers by which he decides what deity to give to the person, he decides that that person has the seed in such a deity, you know, as a potentiality. And so he assigned that deity to that person. And And they would memorize, usually, some verse or a set of verses that went with that movie.

[26:49]

You know, usually a Craven type or a Prescottian type, which they would constantly rehearse when they met Craven on that movie. Ordinarily, in Tibetan practice, when a person has been initiated with the deity, got initiated with the deity, conferred on a person, and actually got to an advanced state, then the guru usually gives him, at the memorial of that, a good picture of the deity. These are these little pink veneer jerseys. Again, they're supposed to be very good replicas of the view. Now, of these persons that were there, I would say that they all went through very strenuous circumstances in the way of living

[28:01]

Usually they had very little money. And they worked very abstemiously to make them money to, you know, as far as it went to stay. And I was quite pleased with them on the whole and wanted to see if we had any decadence of equipment. Whether they got any great insight or treatment out of it, I'd be really glad if they'd been there about half a year I would say that the circumstances there are surely much different from those in which many of you are familiar with and shown to practice involving whether you're going to Japan, you can do, or California, you can do.

[29:12]

Because as far as I know, being in a section of the document, the candidate or the subject are not given So it's somewhat more abstract. Is there a question about that? What form is it in? They sit in this meditative posture, you know, with crossed legs. You know, the usual, that meditative, the usual meditative posture. They're supposed to fold their legs and, you know, in standard Buddhist, you know, break their phone in the standard way.

[30:16]

You know. Yes, they would sit on something like that. Well, to the extent that I saw them, they would just sort of hold their hands in their lap, but they might have been doing some other things that I didn't know about. They didn't like to be seen anyway, you know. That's right. When they were sitting inside, they didn't like to be bothered. They didn't like anybody to see what they were doing. Do you think about this too, Stan? What? You say that, but I can't remember. I mean the, like, for example, these two, this Lucio, the Dutchman, and George, the Frenchman. They were, they would dress themselves up in a religious robe and sit that way inside their meditative cell, you know, early in the morning, meditate for a couple hours before breakfast.

[31:26]

Every morning they'd do this. As far as I know, it was morning. It was a special morning. They were, well, they could read books. They would, sometimes they would have meetings with their guru. They'd go down the mountainside and, you know, with appointments and would answer the questions. Because of these interviews, because of these teachings of the Dalai Lama, to which all the lamas had to attend, that actually cut down on the time that we vote to such. And so before the Dalai Lama started London lectures, he was meeting every day with the... Well, he might be fine about it. Maybe two days a week with the certain one, or maybe two days a week with the certain other one, and so on.

[32:33]

Because he couldn't talk to all of them at the same time, actually. But they all got appointments each week. And they've been doing it for quite a long time. But maybe seeing him do it in cells or in a group. No, that's what I mean. They could have a couple appointments. I think that Paul and his wife would go together, that Paul and Lena, and that George and Usho, who lived on the next route from me, would go together. Because sometimes the answer to a question to one person can touch the other person. if they were staying together and, you know, medically in the same place, it was just natural they should go together. And as I said, all this was interpreted by the younger Lana, who knew quite well. They pretty much then left on their own.

[33:42]

They participated . There wasn't too much community action. Of course, when I was there, these initiations took place. And they were attending and participating in things that they could, although they couldn't understand the bet match. So the exception with the top five is a good point. But at least they tell what was going on and heard it all and attended and also sat up for a call. It's hard. What? No, there is not. And it doesn't matter anyway because they simply learned enough of that. in that short time to profit from it. Well, they stayed different times.

[34:43]

Some of them had to entertain, and also in Kathmandu, I can remember a little bit of the children there. Some of them were there for over a year when they, you know, planned to study country law, but some didn't have the means to do so. In other words, they... they might get hounded out by the government. But sometimes they'd come under a three-month visa, visibly, and then they could get one extension rather easily. They could stay six months. But then it was very hard to get another extension for three months. So they could all make it for six months, but very few, maybe more than that. had the right deed to stay long in there. So that's why some of them would act as saints or trip the mountain down there, would hightail it up to Kathmandu, because then that was a different place.

[35:48]

In other words, that's a different country. So if their visa was going out in India, then they'd go up and still become another Lama up in Kathmandu, where as long as they need to leave, they'd stay there. A lot. Oh, Sikkim? Sikkim is even harder, much harder. And the Indian government is very sensitive about that because of, you know, some of those border clashes that they had a couple years back. You remember in the papers, it was about, I don't know, China. They were trying to cut the border there. And so they have a lot of troops in that area, and they just don't like . And they just don't like foreigners coming there for a long period of time. You can come there for, say, two days or something like that. And if you have an invitation from the city and government, official invitation, you could stay longer.

[36:54]

But even so, you couldn't stay as long as you might want to. But it's much harder to stay there. Is Cotton Hill still there for the other people? Cotton Hill, as far as staying here, is that over there too? No. I was in Kathmandu, and there were a lot more of these Westerners studying under cadet in Kathmandu than there was in Dharamsala. There was a big group, and I met them when they came down to... to conserve because I knew the two lamas under whom they were studying in Kathmandu. But I can't say anything about them in terms of how devoted they were up in Kathmandu. They had, some of them had rooms in some of those monasteries that kind of

[37:59]

Visitors were, they're not elegant at all, you know, all the trinity, but they were actually ignorant. It's pretty hard to stay up there without being in some room. They really got twice the tip of the pen. So you have to find some monastery which has some room to let you stay up there and do something. Whereas down in Darmstadt, these people were staying in private cottages and, you know, little houses that were owned by Indians and whatnot, that they would rent, rent or use or use. And they were not expensive at all, especially the place where George E. Busceau was staying. They had electricity and SO THEY GOT IT VERY CHEAP. THIS HAS BEEN A RIDICULOUS PROCESS. THIS HAS BEEN A RIDICULOUS PROCESS.

[39:02]

Well, they didn't have any... Of course, in Tibet, they had a system of presence. That was standard. Here, I think it was the policy of the Dalai Lama to break up from the exclusive policy that they'd had in the past. And so he was deliberately encouraging their receiving of the Westerners this way and giving them instruction. And I don't think there was any particular remuneration that they gave or ever did give Of course, eventually they do do something, and we need to do a favor.

[40:32]

For example, they answered a lot of questions that I need to be answered, but in return they wanted a couple words, you know, translated into English, because I read the past books in English very well. And then besides that, I just like the pictures in which I'll send in copies, which is a kind of a back of hand after all the, you know, it is expensive to develop and produce power down there. Well, it's hard to know what all their sources are. And, of course, I didn't want to crowd them because they wouldn't like the town. In terms of the, for example, the Tibetan nursery does get some kind of allowance in the Indian government.

[41:40]

And how some of these llamas, the nursery, I don't know. I don't know. There aren't very many that are, if you like, they sponge it. A lot of them have to figure out a way, you know, a manner of income by selling things. No. No, they don't. No, I have, I've never seen any evidence of it. Well, if they did it, of course, if it made their different sects of the women, I don't know, maybe it might be more and more. I think the basic reason why they wouldn't do it It would make a false, it would give a false basis for teaching.

[42:55]

In other words, the teacher should want to accept a certain disciple for teaching, and he should teach him what he feels like teaching him. But if it was put on a money basis, then they would demand that he be taught so-and-so, you know, that he be paying for it, and they don't like to do that. They want to cut the footing of those thoughts. And the only way they could be treated was to knock hands with them. I can feel them, but in any case, I've never seen any barge or... There's been women there, disciples who have come. or would it be place and people really want to share what they're asking?

[43:58]

Well, I'm just wondering, what I'm just following is, I'm just trying to understand, I'm wondering if there might also be, if, are they including their faith-based women on the Sabbath, and then perhaps the disciples that are in the Sabbath for the Father also? Yes, they must be, there must be some, the pylons, and of course I was reading about the pylons. Oh, one, oh, I forgot, there is one source of income which they have with these pylons, and this is from the layman, which is to give blessing. In other words, there's a stream. In fact, they usually set aside some hour during the day, sometime during the day, in which they get a stream of these people coming to get their blessing. And all these people need something. That's right, they do get paid for blessing.

[45:00]

They definitely do, and that's one of their chief works, especially sometimes I've seen a whole stream of people coming in. Well, yes, they're supposed to leave something. They may not leave much because they don't have much to leave, but I think according to the system with If you, you know, well-healed it, well, okay, folks will need more. And, uh, you'll see, uh, there's lots of them coming, but they don't seem to be coming in, you know, one after another to get the blessing of being normal. And they, so that's one-third. It's not enough. And also, they live very economically. they are usually they they're just in one a little bit one of them they have one by yourself and and uh when uh the food is prepared by the monastery they say well you have your own bread and things like that there you know there i mean

[46:13]

up there, for example, there's a guest house where they're putting the Dalai Lama president down. I think I'm hearing. In there, they have a whole bakery where they make things. And when you make those things yourself, you can save a lot and get it cheaper. You can get a basic surplus. You can pay them a lot at a very small cost. Well, you see, the 10,000 Tibetans, there are about 75,000 Tibetan refugees with COVID, quite a big proportion of them. And of these 10,000 Tibetans, about 3,000 were monks and 7,000 laymen. And among the 7,000 laymen, there was a big contingent of Tibetan soldiers.

[47:21]

Just a couple thousand or more Tibetan soldiers. The Indian Army has a regiment of Tibetan soldiers who are stationed in some border area because they know the terrain very well and You know, the Indians don't like to live in them. They don't get along very well. And so they have these Tibetans doing it with the Indian army and the warriors. They all got captured. They all got captured. They started it, so a couple thousand of them, they showed up. Like the whole regiment. And anyway, all told, there were about 10,000. And of them, almost all of them came from different places. There's not very many cadets, but there's many cadets. The village itself only had several hundred people.

[48:25]

But most of these people, just in person, came from other places. They came from all over. They came from the mountain areas, and some of them had to hike for a whole month before they got to a place where there was public transportation. If you live up in the middle of the mountain there, you can't just go take a bus. You'd be too late. Right down the street, you'd have to go through some place where you can get a bus. And so they really came from Austin, from very far off. What are you thinking about ? Well, they of course have had it very difficult as refugees, but a great many of them have adapted themselves.

[49:27]

A lot of them know Hindi now, and a few of them speak English now, and there are a lot of them that are in various trades. Of course, It's probably a lot of refugees all the time with the public, but they're actually, they seem to be doing pretty well. I mean, you know, considering refugees around the world, we've always had a hard time. I think, I hope they're holding up. That's true. You mean, yeah, the children have... There's a tendency for them to have tuberculosis, more than tuberculosis, anemia. They tend to have anemia. It's probably true of all erected bee children anywhere in the world. They tend to have anemia through rather severe malnutrition as young.

[50:34]

And then this makes them prone to all sorts of other, they usually catch this and that, because they have anemia, or are quite capable of anemia. And so that has to be treated, if you shoot these kids, you have to treat their anemia first. Some of them have certain ones, but I don't say it was anemia, especially on the kids. Of the Western students who were studying with these different ones, is there any generalization you can make about the kind of background they have? Have they had some kind of previous training? Yes, these Westerners, the ones I know, there seems to be a... There seems to be in some way, which differs in all of them, a kind of alienation from their culture.

[51:41]

And then for some unexplained reason, you know, uh, they, they started to study in prep circles then. I mean, I don't know why they, they chose to study under the Tibetans, but it does seem to be pretty typical that they are alienated from their own culture, just like George Van Caren, uh, through their failure. And he, he wanted to find something else. Now, why he chose to find a thing among the Tibetans, I don't know, but, uh, I can't figure out. Did any of the students that you knew have some training, some training practice or some experience? No. No. They just went there and took that worksheet. Could you say you have an imagination?

[52:44]

Yes, well, these initiations, well, there's been... Oh, yes. The people, for example, those 10,000 qualified, you know, the reason why they qualified is because, I mean, official reasons, I haven't noticed, I asked that question. Which was, is that they came, they saved up their money and came, you know, from a long distance. And, you know, at great, rather great carnations. And so, filled with faith. In other words, out of faith they came there, you know, ran and saved up their money and came from a long distance. In other words, you have to have a faith to be killed there. in the efficacy of the procedure, in other words, that such a thing can take place, that such a mythic transmission can take place, that there's a value in it, that it works.

[54:00]

If you don't have a faith, I mean, obviously, you're not a prophet, can you? And you're keeping skeptically, of course, you know, reaching it. Because, as I said during my talk, we initiated a in the Kalachakra Tantra, you have to look upon the initiator here, the Dalai Lama, as being this Kalachakra deity in the communion of the male and female forces, being the disciple of the twelve nuns. And he's supposed to look upon himself that way, too, in order to be initiated. Now, if you can't bring yourself to look upon that way, well, you can't be initiated. Well, furthermore, the first day they handed out these, there was some kind of plant they handed out.

[55:04]

Well, I didn't know the name of it, but it was kind of a branch. And there's a long one and a short one. You take it home and put the long one into your bed and the short one into your pillow And then, you know, examine your dreams. That's what I mean. Auspicious dreams. Of course, auspicious dreams mean also that you are favored by the deity, and that therefore you can be initiated. You mean you dream about the dream? No, you don't dream. Auspicious dreams mean such things as, like, if you dream of mountains and cascades, or you dream of groups of llamas, or you dream of a pink ritual, that's like an auspicious dream. Then if you have such auspicious dreams, then that shows that you're being favored by a deity. Sweet.

[56:07]

And to be initiated means to get the power, to get that deity enshrined as your tutelary deity, that deity lord. It will give you various powers and let them be the contenders, for example, you could catch them with a bat, or you could incite them to do a personality attack, and so on. It's really the coverage of doing. Of course, whether those questions are initiated, they, in fact, get the protection and insight. Well, that's, again, a new point. But the theory is that you have the power of that unity. You know what I mean? Oh, I'm sure that there are cases. I suppose in general you could say that of the 10,000 who were there, probably... Incidentally, in their theory, if you go through this procedure with faith,

[57:31]

that even if you don't get initiation in the two sense, you get a propensity or you have a seed planted in you for the future, so that in some future time you could. I mean, if you have a real faith in the future, they're going to, you know, they believe in this seed, you know, this propensity planted in you that they build. But it would only be a very few, of course, at any time would have a true transmission of the deity, as was certified by their auspicious community, you know, the night before the initiation. How did they do this initiation? Oh, the time when the Dhamma, when such a Kalachakra initiation has to be given on the full moon of the third night. And that was the full moon, and the third month there, or even in that calendar, about that time, the third lunar month, I guess it is.

[58:40]

Anyway, they came out around March 20th, somewhere around there, March 22nd, I think, but it was the full moon day of the third month. And that's the day that this initiation can be given at any year. It can't be given at any other time during the year. Actually, it lasted for three days. The day before, the full moon, the full moon and the day after. Well, you see, it can be given. If it's given at all, it's given at that time in the year. But then... The Dalai Lama, this was the third time he was given, and according to what people were saying, it was the last time he was going to give it. And he would never give it again. I mean, that was the general fear of what would have to be the case. Well, um... It may have been, I don't know, well I asked about this and they were not very clear about it, but it seemed that when he first gave it he made a kind of a vow that he was going to give it so many times and that was all.

[59:57]

And this third time he gave it was especially in connection with the opening up of the New And while theoretically he could give again, everybody seemed to be of the view that he never would give again. Of course, some other people have given the Kalachakra initiation, and he was the only one to do that. But he would never give it again. And I was told that it's very rare to have the Kali Chakra initiation given. It takes a lot of preparation. It takes a lot of pomp and circumstance. And they just, well, even like that dance that I photographed with the dance of the Cloud Month. There's all kinds of preparations and things. You have to make this very elaborate mandala. which takes quite a long time, and there are all sorts of preparations and directing that have to be done. And it's quite a big festival. There's a lot of preparation, and so it's just like some of the certain dancers in South India, you know, they don't come on very often because they're so elaborate and take so much preparation.

[61:06]

They do it maybe once a year, certain of those. to lavish Indian dance. Over here, too, it takes quite a lot of preparation and it takes a lot of training. For example, when they first put on that Dance of the Month, those people had to be trained quite a long time to go through that dance. And then those people did the music, had to do it just right to go with the dance. So all these things take so much preparation that they just don't put it on very often. at that point. And so when they did put it on, and along with the kind of the general view that Dalai Lama wouldn't, that this was the last time they'd been given, and in connection with this great event of the opening up of the first church monastery, I think it was there, where all these people showed up. And when the cadet showed up, there you came. That's the thing, sure.

[62:07]

Did the Tibetans build the monastery themselves, or were they using a building that they had? I think they had a lot of Indian help. They had the money to build the monastery, and I'm sure some Tibetans worked on it. They named some Indians and some Tibetans. Of course, where possible, they would employ Tibetan people and work to do it. They had money to build this box there. I'm sorry, I forgot the name of it. It isn't... I just can't... I knew it, but I... I had to threaten him. But of course, uh... it's just been you know it's the opposite but i want to do it but [...]

[63:32]

For example, with East Tibetans, you could, and some people have been doing it. You know, some people got some students, like in Harvard, had some fellowship to go study there. I met one or two of those, a couple of those. What? Yeah, a university type person who had some project writing their dissertation on some subject connected with Tibetan Buddhism or wandering around there and writing their dissertation. Yes, you could. Of course, there are limitations. If you want to help from any of these Tibetans, there's a problem of communication, but suppose you do have this case like we had where we had an intermediary who could know New English. Well, still it doesn't help you very much unless you know what question to ask. They're best at answering questions rather than giving you spontaneous information.

[64:38]

And if you don't know enough about the subject to ask a talented question, well, it doesn't be much good to have it in the room. This is the trouble with people studying Judaism in other places, like Ceylon. They've gone and stayed for six months or a year, and they don't know what questions to ask. And therefore, they didn't get... It was good data. They liked it. From your experience in Illinois, do you think that there's a book for every student? Oh, there's a book. Oh, yes. The Tibetan Book of the Dead is a good translation. Of course, it was not really translated by Edward Grant. It was translated by that man, Khadri Dala Sondra, in conjunction with him. And he was sort of Englished up, or Englished it up. Khadri Dala Sondra knew quite a bit of English. But it wasn't good enough, and then it went to, who had written a book earlier on Irish fairy tales, and he was very good at English, and he enlisted up and published, and it was a very good book.

[65:53]

Very fine, kind, playful. Except that sometimes the notes by Evan Brand are the unique part of the book. In other words, they're rather speculative. Not based upon... Right, the real tradition of the text, the text that's been on the United States, that's been influenced by Julius, as well, by his theological reasons. There will be a certain Western, I'd call it, tradition thing. And he puts in those things, but they're not all in there. But the basic work, in fact, is good. . Well, you meditate on a deity in several ways.

[67:09]

For one thing, you can recite the mantra of that deity. There's a visual part and a verbal part. You know, there's usually some mantra associated, which you have to repeat over and over again. And... Sometimes people don't have sufficient visualizing power to capture that inner image. Such things in that rich and refined way of such an iconography. But they can at least recite the mantra You know, they can get up in the morning and recite it for thousands of times. And then they can try to image the deity in the Orthodox form.

[68:13]

And they can trade it with the deity. So they're a very good thing to be doing. And of course, if you fast, for a certain period of time, that's part of the service for the deity. In other words, you engage in various austerities, and all these austerities are kind of serving the deity. You're doing these things because you're serving the deity. You're meditating on that deity. That's why you didn't eat during this time. And so these various austerities all build up What? Oh, Lama. That is the Tibetan word Lama in the translation of the exact word.

[69:15]

And these Tibetan teachers are called Lama. Technically speaking, not because they're wearing the role card, they They were able to do it because they have been all things that they are. but you know, they've entered before in that system. Technically speaking, they are gurus or lamas when they have disciples, because the guru, you know, shouldn't have a disciple. He's a purist. So once they get disciples, then they're really known as the real, the true lamas. Well, even so, they might have a good name, but... As far as the word itself is concerned, it fits once they get the siphon. For example, this particular initiation, it was mostly attended by people of their own sect, the Gelipka.

[70:23]

Some people from the other sects came, but not very many. not that much it would indicate that there was, you know, a real operation or a good feeling between these sects. I think there has been criticism of him on this score that he has favored the gay movement more in terms of, you know, in such ways as can be favored and I thought the only way I could see is perhaps admitting children to that, you know, refugee military. But there might be some other ways in which you could favor one sect over the other. But that goes back for many centuries, and there's not much you can do about it. These sects just don't, some of them are arriving, just like some of the Connaughton sects are arriving.

[71:28]

They're being killed by it now. There are, from time to time, ecumenical movements, and they are successful in various issues. Yes? Oh, I'm working on finishing a book on Tibetan miniature painting. He didn't want to go. Oh, yes. I have a picture of the painter. Oh, painted the mandala. The mandala was not painted. The tango was painted. But the mandala was made with powder. In other words, it was a square thing made with powder. Almost like icing on a cake. And they built up this very elaborate mandala. But it was about so square. Maybe about two feet.

[72:35]

Square. And it was very rapid. But the Tonka was painted by one painter. And he was the one I showed. In fact, I took a picture, you know, of that. Which I recently sent. Did he take that image, tradition, that he created? Well, that is the, see, that form of the Kalachakra deity is handed down traditionally. You have to paint it a certain way. Nevertheless, there are better and worse depictions of the same thing. He's considered a very good painter. Some people just don't get it right, just don't do it right.

[73:40]

I was trying to get a miniature of a great beauty, Mahakala. black hands and whatnot. And I was not satisfied. I had three of them, teenagers, who did it for painters, but I'm not satisfied with any of them. Because you thought they looked furious, and now you can make them look furious. Sometimes you have to be around a good painter to make them look furious. The Gazi painters are much better at painting the Maya beings, you know, the goddesses, you know, rather easily, but it's so big, it's a mysterious beauty. It's where it falls flat, you know. They can't get into experience. And he can measure furious and not furious and still the king would be satisfied with the iconographical stipulation. In other words, he's booked out this, he's booked out so many honors, good faith in this one hand, good faith in this thing in that hand, and so on.

[74:47]

and it didn't look to be so effective, of course, and the book had people that ornamented on them, you know, and maybe surrounded by flames and all this. And so these painters know how to start to paint this deity, and they all do it in accordance with these laid-down stipulations, but they do it differently. In other words, some persons just don't get to come out right. It just doesn't click. They're just not good painters. The mild beauty doesn't look so mild, and the fierce beauty doesn't look so clear at the minute. It's just not a good painter. He's even going to satisfy his iconographical chivalry. Can we, if we can, ask you, and the figures translate, and I should start here, if you think of me, I'm only... Well, one of these things was a little work by and they wanted that translated because we wanted to print this up in a little

[75:55]

actually wouldn't be many pages, maybe about three, you know, three or four pages, I don't really think they'd be that long, and give it to Phil to tell you to study then. You know, give it out as a free brochure, so people can, so they'd know what the form adopted, but in other words, so that he wouldn't always have to be explaining all, but if it's word translated, you know, No, no, that's right. I was wondering what... I guess there's an incredible... Oh, yes. Well, that gets us into a different area at the time of the translation.

[77:16]

You have to be very well equipped philologically, and then also you have to be of a certain mind to be a good part pleasure. You have to be willing to... to let it go through the way it is, you know, without throwing it too fancy. And perhaps I hope that it is getting out of time. I hope we've all got a little idea of some of the people sitting there in the silence. Thank you. Thank you very much.

[78:17]

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