I vow to taste the truth of the Tathāgata's words. Good morning, everyone. So the first part of the talk is especially for the young people. We have a nice group of young people this morning. I think, well, vacation is pretty much over. This is the last day. Tomorrow school starts, doesn't it? So for some people that might be not such a happy thought, and for other people they might be looking forward to getting back to school. But the holidays are over, and I think for some people, sometimes the holidays are kind of a disappointment, you know? They're not quite as fun as we thought they were going to be. Did that happen to anybody, where they were looking forward to the holidays

[01:03]

and then it wasn't maybe as fun as they thought? That sometimes happens. Sometimes we want things, like presents, and we don't get them, and we get other things that we really don't want at all. Yeah. Well, I wanted to tell you a story, actually to read to you a story about a young person who really wanted something very badly, enough so that he did something that got him in some trouble in order to get what he wanted. And this story is, I'm going to read it to you because it's so beautifully written that I thought if I told it, I would lose some of its beauty. And it's written by a man named Langston Hughes, and he's an African-American writer, and the story is in a dialect or has some dialect in it, so I'll try my best to read it as it was written. Okay? The name of the story is called Thank You, Ma'am. Okay, ready?

[02:07]

She was a large woman with a large purse that had everything in it but hammer and nails. It had a long strap, and she carried it slung across her shoulders. It was about 11 o'clock at night, dark, and she was walking alone when a boy ran up behind her and tried to snatch her purse. The strap broke with the sudden single tug the boy gave it from behind, but the boy's weight and the weight of the purse combined caused him to lose his balance. Instead of taking a full blast as he had hoped, the boy fell on his back on the sidewalk and his legs flew up. The large woman simply turned around and kicked him right square in his blue-jeans sitter. Then she reached down, picked the boy up by his shirt front, and shook him until his teeth rattled.

[03:11]

After that, the woman said, Pick up my pocketbook, boy, and give it here. She held him tightly, but she bent down enough to permit him to stoop and pick up her purse. Then she said, Now, ain't you ashamed of yourself? Firmly gripped by his shirt front, the boy said, Yes, ma'am. The woman said, Why did you want to do it for? The boy said, I didn't aim to. She said, You a lie. By that time, two or three people paused, stopped, turned to look, and some stood watching. If I turn you loose, will you run? asked the woman. Yes, ma'am, said the boy. Then I won't turn you loose, said the woman. She did not release him. Lady, I'm sorry, whispered the boy. Uh-huh, your face is dirty. I got a great mind to wash your face for you. Ain't you got nobody home to tell you to wash your face?

[04:16]

Know him, said the boy. Then it will get washed this evening, said the large woman, starting up the street, dragging the frightened boy behind her. He looked as if he were 14 or 15, frail and will-o-wild, in tennis shoes and blue jeans. The woman said, You ought to be my son. I would teach you right from wrong. Least I can do right now is to wash your face. Are you hungry? Know him, said the being-dragged boy. I just want you to turn me loose. Was I bothering you when I turned that corner? asked the woman. Know him. But you put yourself in contact with me, said the woman. If you think that that contact is not going to last a while, you got another thought coming. When I get through with you, sir, you are going to remember Mrs. Luella Bates Washington Jones.

[05:19]

Sweat popped out on the boy's face, and he began to struggle. Mrs. Jones stopped, jerked him around in front of her, put a half-Nelson around his neck, and continued to drag him up the street. When she got to her door, she dragged the boy inside, down a hall and into a large kitchenette-furnished room at the rear of the house. She switched on the light, and she left the door open. The boy could hear other roomers laughing and talking in the large house. Some of their doors were open, too, so he knew he and the woman were not alone. The woman still had him by the neck in the middle of her room. She said, What's your name? Roger, answered the boy. Then, Roger, you go to that sink, and you wash your face, said the woman, whereupon she turned him loose at last. Roger looked at the door. He looked at the woman.

[06:22]

He looked at the door, and he went to the sink. Let the water run until it gets warm, she said. Here's a clean towel. You going to take me to jail, asked the boy, bending over the sink? Not with that face, I would not take you nowhere, said the woman. Here I am, trying to get home to cook me a bite to eat, and you snatch my pocketbook. Maybe you ain't been to your supper either, late as it is, have you? There's nobody home at my house, said the boy. Then we'll eat, said the woman. I believe you're hungry, or been hungry, to try to snatch my pocketbook. I want a pair of blue suede shoes, said the boy. Well, you didn't have to snatch my pocketbook to get some suede shoes, says Mrs. Luella Bates Washington Jones. You could have asked me. Ma'am? The water dripped from his face.

[07:26]

The boy looked at her. There was a long pause, a very long pause. After he had dried his face, and not knowing what else to do, he dried it again, the boy turned around, wondering what next. The door was open. He could make a dash for it down the hall. He could run, run, run, run. The woman was sitting on the daybed, and after a while she said, I were young once, and I wanted things I couldn't get. There was another long pause. The boy's mouth opened. Then he frowned, not knowing that he frowned. The woman said, Uh-huh, you thought I was going to say but, didn't you? You thought I was going to say, but I didn't snatch people's pocketbooks. Well, I wasn't going to say that. Pause. Silence. I have done things, too, which I would not tell you, son, neither tell God, if you didn't know already. Everybody's got something in common.

[08:28]

So you sit down while I fix us something to eat. You might run that comb through your hair so you look presentable. In another corner of the room, behind a screen, was a gas plate and an icebox. Mrs. Jones got up and went behind the screen. The woman did not watch the boy to see if he was going to run now, nor did she watch her purse, which she left behind her on the daybed. But the boy took care to sit on the far side of the room, away from the purse, where he thought she could easily see him out of the corner of her eye, if she wanted to. He did not trust the woman not to trust him, and he did not want to be mistrusted now. Do you need somebody to go to the store, asked the boy, maybe to get some milk or something? Don't believe I do, said the woman, unless you just want sweet milk yourself. I was going to make cocoa here with this canned milk. That'll be fine, said the boy.

[09:30]

She heated some lima beans and ham she had in the icebox, made the cocoa, and set the table. The woman did not ask the boy anything about where he lived or his folks, or anything else that would embarrass him. Instead, as they ate, she told him about her job in a hotel beauty shop that stayed open late, and all the kinds of women that came in and out, blondes and redheads and Spanish. Then she cut him a half of her ten-cent cake. Eat some more, son, she said. When they were finished eating, she got up and said, Now here, take this $10, and buy yourself some blue suede shoes. And next time, you do not make the mistake of latching on to my pocketbook, nor nobody else's, because shoes got by devilish ways will burn your feet. I got to get my rest now, but from here on in, son, I hope you will behave yourself. She led him down the hall to the front door and opened it.

[10:33]

Good night. Behave yourself, boy, she said, looking out into the street as he went down the steps. The boy wanted to say something other than, Thank you, ma'am, to Mrs. Luella Bates Washington Jones. But although his lips moved, he couldn't even say that as he turned at the foot of the barren stoop and looked up at the large woman in the door. Then she shut the door. So that's the story of the young boy who wanted some blue suede shoes and who he bumped into on a dark night. Do you think he was pretty lucky? Yeah. How come? Matthew? Because he was nice enough to buy me a pair of blue suede shoes. To give him some money to buy some and to give him something.

[11:42]

Yeah. Yeah, she understood him, I think. She kind of knew what it was like not to have stuff that you want and do something stupid to try and get it, huh? So think about that story. Ever since I heard it, I've been thinking about it for weeks, about that lady and how she acted towards that boy and what happened to him. I kind of wonder what happened to him next. So I wish you all a happy New Year, and you're going to go off now with Wendy and have some treats, and maybe you can talk more about the story with her, okay? Okay, thank you very much for coming. Thank you.

[13:02]

Thank you. There's a couple more places up here if anyone wants to come. So Miss Luella Bates Washington Jones to me is a bodhisattva. A bodhisattva is an enlightenment being, one who takes care of beings in an appropriate way. We just yesterday had an ordination ceremony here, which many of you might have attended. Seven people received Buddhist precepts

[14:27]

and took vows and became priests, bodhisattva priests. And four of those people are living at Green Gulch and one person at City Center and two people at Jamesburg near Tassajara. And every time I go to one of those ceremonies, I watch, and my own ceremony also, feeling the transformation of beings into these baby Buddha beings. They come into the hall and their hair has been freshly shaved off and they have new outfits on that they're not so used to wearing, new kimonos with belts that they're not used to, and they always look a little like little hatched chickens, you know, coming in.

[15:28]

And then the ceremony is rather long and complicated, lots of things to remember, and they go through the, sometimes forgetting things here and there, and it's all very, everyone, I feel like the whole room is just supporting them, helping them go through this gate. Into their new life. And we watch them transform. They actually receive more clothing, more things get put on them, Buddha's robe, and then they receive bowls to eat with, new bowls to eat with, and new clothes and a new name, sometimes a new name, sometimes they've already received a name. And then a new family, which is the lineage, Buddha's lineage, that they become part of. Buddha's child. And several times in the ceremony it says, you are now seated with Buddha

[16:33]

and are a child of the Buddha. So these Bodhisattva precepts, to receive Bodhisattva's precepts and to make the commitment to live this life is of great benefit to all beings. Because you put, part of the Bodhisattva vow is to put others bring others into your life and put others before you. And so everyone benefits from that. Each one of you benefits from these vows that these people have taken. There are four wisdoms of the Bodhisattva that I wanted to talk about.

[17:33]

And these are giving or offerings, loving words, benevolence, and identification. Those four are called the Bodhisattva wisdoms. And I feel like Mrs. Luella Bates Washington Jones also exemplified these four. Starting out with offerings, the wisdom of offerings, making offerings. The first offering or giving is to not covet, to not look outside and want things that are out there. And when you drop that, that in itself is giving and making offerings. Now we usually don't think about the non-action of something as the action of giving, but to not be hankering after things is a gift to the world, is an offering to the world. But also it's any kind of offering with sincere heart,

[18:40]

and it can be offerings of the teaching or just a word or a sentence of the teaching. It can be material goods. It can be of your time. It can be whatever it is that your work is, what you produce and make or a craft or anything like that can be offering. So I feel like Mrs. Jones offered, well, first of all, she offered her time. She was willing to just be with this kid in a real way and not abandon him to the, you know, let him go, call the police and have them, you know, take him to juvenile hall or whatever. She was going to get involved with him and give him some of her time. And this is not premeditating, you know, in order to get all the, you know,

[19:42]

positive reinforcement from being somebody who volunteers or it was just immediate, her reaction to him. And then she also made offerings of food, you know. Whatever she had, she had some leftovers in the icebox and put those together and made a little cocoa but very sincerely offering him a little something to eat together. So these kinds of offerings are very important. This is a wisdom, this kind of offering and giving is a wisdom, one of the Bodhisattva wisdoms, something one does out of your understanding and wisdom is make offerings of all kinds. So I think each one of us can imagine all the offerings that we could make and don't or already do or want to do more of.

[20:42]

The second wisdom is loving words. And loving words are in the piece that I was studying, which is from Dogen. He says loving words are revolutionary. They have enormous effect. So there's the loving words that one speaks directly to someone and it says that that warms the heart and brightens the countenance when you speak lovingly directly to someone. But even stronger, what makes even a deeper impression on us is when we hear that loving words have been spoken about us not in our presence, when we hear from someone else that loving words have been spoken about us when we weren't there. That makes a very strong and deep impression on us. Also loving words are said to,

[21:50]

they have the power to turn a bitter enemy, turn them and to also create friendliness. So they're revolutionary. They actually can change the world, loving words. And when I think of loving words, in this story of Mrs. Luella Bates Washington Jones, her words to this kid were pretty harsh at a certain point, like, who do you think you are? I was just turned in the corner, they're minding my own business, you want some contact with me, well, you're going to have it. This kind of close, intimate, is what I also mean by loving words, but not just saccharine or sentimental, kind of sweet necessarily, but loving, truly loving. And also in her omission, it said,

[22:54]

she didn't bring up when they were sitting there eating or asking about his folks or about where he lived or anything, not wanting to embarrass him. And for me, knowing when not to bring something up also is loving words, when to have a light touch and not pry and not out of curiosity try to find out. Just to leave it. She knew it was pretty painful probably, so that to me is loving words too. And the third is benevolence, and benevolence is any action that benefits others. And the action, often we think of benefiting those who in some way are in more trouble than we are

[23:56]

or have less than we do, but in this case the benevolent action, the definition is to benefit anyone no matter what state they're in. So if it's someone who is a very well-off person who seems to be doing just fine, you don't skip over that person and try to just benefit certain others. It's similar to when the Buddhist monks and nuns would go begging in Buddhist time and after for the years in India when they begged, they wouldn't skip certain doors, they would just go from door to door to door and not skip any doors because the benefit to the people of giving alms or giving food to the Sangha was very great. So they didn't skip the rich or the poor.

[25:01]

Sometimes you would think, well, let's skip the poor people because they don't have enough food to give anyway and we want to save them from that. But that would also be saving them from a chance to give sincerely an offering, no matter how small, maybe just a small amount of lentils or whatever they had, but you don't want to deprive someone of that chance. And also with a rich household, you don't want to skip over them giving them an opportunity to give either. You might think, well, they don't need the merit, they already have everything they need. So whatever station the person is in in life, you find some kind of benevolent action to meet that. So benefiting others and oftentimes the most benefit to others is giving of the teaching. So these kind of overlap each other in terms of giving

[26:04]

and the last of the Four Wisdoms of a Bodhisattva is... Oh, and Mrs. Luella Bates, I felt, acted very benevolently towards him in all ways, washing his face, really getting close to his body and use my comb, comb your hair, just some kind of closeness which I imagine he felt bereft of, this kind of attention where somebody cared whether his face was dirty or whether his hair needed combing. And then giving him his $10 for the shoes, you know. So all this I see is benefiting him, benevolent action.

[27:07]

And then the last one is identification and this wisdom is the wisdom of not seeing self and other as separate and this may be at the underlying, the underpinning of all the Bodhisattva precepts is this understanding of identification or non-discrimination between self and other. Actually all the precepts when understood thoroughly come from this understanding of no difference or no separation between self and other. But often when we don't understand that thoroughly, there's other ways to understand the precepts, literally understanding them and understanding them as compassionate action. But then there's this absolute understanding of no difference between self and other

[28:11]

and if there's no difference between self and other, then something like the precept of not to kill or not to steal or not to lie, who could you kill, who could you steal from in this wide understanding of identification. So in benevolent action, in terms of them all folding in on each other, benevolent action, we often think, well if I do something for somebody else, then I'm going to lose, I'm going to be, I'll have less for myself, so I'm not going to do that because I might need that later, that kind of feeling. But benevolent action is when you do something for other, you do something for yourself, there's not a difference there. So it and identification are very similar. I wasn't going to talk about this, but it just arose in my mind, so I saw the Titanic, I don't know, many of you probably saw it, and one of the strongest, not to spoil the movie for anybody,

[29:15]

but you all know what happens. One of the strongest parts was at the end, as the ship's going down, watching human nature, and who was it who tried to help to save others and who was selfish and tried to get lifeboats ahead of others and these kinds of things, and the painfulness of watching that played out in the drama. And I think the final thing was, and this is historically true, that the lifeboats were not filled to the max, and after the people were in the water, the lifeboats that were not filled, there was only one lifeboat out of all the lifeboats that went back and pulled people out of the water to save them.

[30:15]

And there's a scene of this woman in the lifeboat saying, okay, the suction is now over, the ship's gone down, let's go back. And the people in the boat, there's silence in the lifeboat. Come on, let's go, come on, there are other women, there are women, you know, let's go back. And someone else in the boat said, if you say one other word, you're going to be, you're going to throw you out. So it was out of fear, of course, terrible fear that they would go back and people would try to clamber in and swamp their boat and they all would perish. So, of course, for me, the thought is, what would I have done? And we don't know. This is one of the deepest pains of being a human being is we don't know until the time if we would act in a way that was consonant with our bodhisattva vow to save all beings,

[31:18]

or what, what would we do? What if our kids were in the boat and there was danger that it would be capsized, what would we do? Would we say, no, no, we can't go back? Would we say, we've got to go back, what would we do? So this drama in many different ways is played out, you see it in the last part of the movie over and over again in different vignettes. It was very painful, painful knowing that we are, that we can be not true to our own selves out of fear. So knowing this, I feel some urgency to practice harder. But when one has a true understanding of identification

[32:22]

or non-separateness of self and other, from what I understand there's no question of what to do. The appropriate action is what arises, because hate and greed and fear and so forth do not get in the way. Since those are based on belief in a separate self that needs protection and needs things for itself and needs blue suede shoes enough to grab, you know, here's this old lady trudging down the street late at night in the dark. You don't think about her, you know, you think about what you want and it doesn't matter if you knock her down or whatever. So that's not understanding identification with other. So this is a very important point, maybe the most important point.

[33:25]

And when Suzuki Roshi talks about receiving the precepts I've been studying some of his lectures on receiving the precepts and we have 16 Bodhisattva precepts, but he points to the one precept that can't be divided into 16 or ten grave precepts and three pure and three refuges and that's how they're usually divided, but you can't divide the one precept into 16. There's just one precept. And that precept is this precept of what I was calling not seeing self and others, but another name for that is emptiness or sometimes people say the absolute, but the truth of emptiness is the one precept and everything else flows from that. So receiving these precepts, I don't know maybe if some of you are not familiar with the precepts,

[34:34]

but they're similar, the ten grave precepts. How many of you are not familiar with precepts, what the precepts are in Buddhism or Zen? Okay, so the 16 are the three refuges, taking refuge in Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. The three pure precepts are embracing and sustaining right action, embracing and sustaining all good and embracing and sustaining all beings. Those are the three pure, and then the ten grave precepts are a disciple of the Buddha does not kill, does not steal, does not misuse sexuality, does not lie, does not intoxicate mind or body of self or others, does not slander or speak of the faults of others, does not praise self at the expense of others, is not possessive of anything, does not harbor ill will and does not abuse the three treasures. So those are the ten.

[35:35]

And when Suzuki Roshi talks about precepts, basically the teaching is that the precepts are no different than Zazen practice. To observe the precepts is to practice Zazen and to receive the precepts is to practice Zazen. And to practice Zazen is to find out your own true self and be yourself completely. So, you know, it's hard to be ourselves completely in this wide, wide understanding of self, which is the truth of emptiness. It's very hard when we have things like the five desires. You know, this kid had one of the five. The five desires are desire for property, blue suede shoes, desire for sexual activity, desire for food and drink, desire for fame, and desire for sleep. So if you've got the five desires kind of roaming around,

[36:39]

you may not be able to... It may get in the way, perhaps, of expressing your own true self. Not all the time. And within the five desires, the five desires are also empty, too. So one can awaken within the five desires. Those aren't things to necessarily get rid of and get out. You can't. Eating and drinking and sexual activity and having property, sleeping and fame, sometimes you can't help it. You get famous. So you can't get out of those things. And at the same time, to go after those things, there's a problem there, you know. So studying those things, studying our life and studying how it is those things get in the way of those four wisdoms. How does desire for property get in the way of loving words, giving, benevolence, and identification?

[37:43]

So I just wanted to say a little bit more about this one precept out of which all of this flows. All the precepts flow, and zazen flows, and appropriate action in a lifeboat flows, you know. So I've been studying in a little seminar that I'm in about the fourth Chinese ancestor whose name is Dai He Doshin. And we actually need Dai He Doshin now because when he came to this village, their springs had all run dry, just like Rinkochi. And when he came into the village, the springs began to flow again, so it'd be nice to have him come down the road. Anyway, Dai He Doshin was, as a young man,

[38:48]

very taken with the teachings of emptiness, which are the great wisdom beyond wisdom teachings. And his teaching through the years was the one practice samadhi, which is, I think, the same as this one precept. And this is what he taught. And he, you know, thoroughly understanding this and thoroughly living this, an example of this is the emperor, he was a very popular teacher, had many, many, many students, and the emperor wanted, it says, to taste some of the teaching too. And he asked him to come and speak, and Dai He Doshin refused to come to the emperor to teach. He said he was ill, and he was asked three times, and on the fourth time, when the messenger came, the emperor said, if he doesn't come, just cut off his head. So the messenger told him, you know, if you don't come now, I'm going to cut off your head,

[39:49]

and Dai He Doshin just stretched out his neck calmly and didn't blink an eye. This so turned the messenger that he went back to the emperor and told him what happened, and the emperor just let him be, you know, stay in his monastery. So my understanding of the ability to just stretch out your neck and say, all right, comes out of this thorough realization of the one precept of emptiness. So I just wanted to talk a little bit about what emptiness is and what you'll hear from me about emptiness is, you know, are words and concepts, and I kind of may be pointing to an understanding of it, but it's for each person to realize through their own practice. It's not something...

[40:50]

Even though your study and intellectual understanding of emptiness is very helpful and very useful, and actually sometimes you feel like, you know, it's thinking in a new way about reality or something, and it feels like actual new synapses are being made or new pathways are being formed in your brain sometimes when you hear a teaching like this, and you also may have some... What's the word? Antipathy or kind of turning away. It's like too much or something. So forgive me if that, you know, just sit and let the words come in, and you either disregard them totally or use it at will, whatever. So the usual... When I first heard about emptiness, I thought...

[41:50]

I hated the word. I didn't know what it was talking about and why they keep talking about it and leave me alone, kind of like that. But over the years, I actually have become more interested in studying emptiness. So the bodhisattva understanding, the reason that they can put other people before them is from this understanding of emptiness. So it's really key to practice, but don't force yourself to. So the word shunyata in Sanskrit is the word that means empty, and it looks like... The word shunyata means kind of swollen up, like a gourd that looks like it's something, but actually if you... It's empty inside. There's nothing really inside it, but it has the appearance of something there.

[42:51]

So there's this kind of quality in the word shunyata or emptiness. And emptiness doesn't mean nothingness, which sometimes it's translated as void or nothingness, which has the connotation of there's nothing there, kind of like nihilistic, that nothing exists. That's going too far in one direction. But to say that things exist in the way that we think they do, separate selves and beings, that's going too far in the other way. So the teaching of emptiness is actually the middle way between existence and nonexistence. So I'm going to talk about it. When we talk about emptiness, we mean empty of a separate self or an inherent self that's separate from all other things. And we end up believing that we're separate in that way and that things exist in that way. And this is a kind of fault of vision or fault of mind in some way

[43:58]

that we're all prone to, more than prone, we're kind of geared to be thinking that way. But emptiness talks about the fact that things are empty of a separate self but exist interdependently. And as Thich Nhat Hanh coined the term, they inter-be or they inter-are. Things exist together. And just a very simple example of that is if this air that we're breathing were somehow poisoned with some kind of terrible substance, we would not be able to live anymore. So we depend for our life on this air, and it wouldn't take very long. So our life is, when you think about it like that, it's very fragile, right?

[44:58]

It wouldn't take much. Or if we got too cold or if we got too hot or certain things changed, certain conditions changed, our life would totally change or would no longer be. So this is how we inter-are or interdependent. But we usually don't think of that. I mean, yes, yes, we know that, but we don't go along, go around bearing this in mind at all times. And when we see each person realizing that we exist right now in the way we exist because they are there in the way they exist, but it's true. Somebody makes a kind of funny face while you're talking and you feel something, or they laugh and you feel great, or you hear loving words said directly and your countenance brightens and your heart warms. This is how we inter-are. And going further than that, I'll use this cloth as an example. I don't know if this is silk or not.

[46:00]

I'll pretend it's silk. I think it might be polyester, but anyway. So this little book cover is made of silk, and we think of this as a book cover and it has a snap and things can go inside it. And it's very useful. And we kind of think of it as a separate self. But this book cover couldn't, is here, is made up of the cloth, which is silk, and silk is made by silkworms that eat, what do they eat, mulberry leaves? And they're tended very carefully, and then certain kind of silk, they kill the silkworms as they make the silk, other ones they don't. But anyway, so you have the silkworms that are necessary for this, so the silkworms are really in this. You couldn't have this without silkworms or mulberry trees.

[47:00]

If you've got mulberry trees, you've got to have somebody, you've got to have the sun, and you've got to have the silk makers who wove this and designed it and put on this little embroidery, and then there's the embroidery thread maker, and then there's the parents of the people who make the silk, and there's their parents, and so forth. And pretty soon you keep going and going, and pretty soon you have the entire cosmos is there. The sun, the moon, the stars, the air, the light, the trees, the earth that grew the tree, it's all there. There is not one thing missing from this little book bag. We call this a book bag. Isn't that strange? We call this little thing a book bag. It is the entire cosmos right here, ladies and gentlemen. But I like to carry books in it, and we have this tradition of covering sutras out of feeling of respect, so we have to call it something, so we call it a book bag.

[48:04]

And we all agree we're going to call it a book bag or sutra cover or something. So for short, kind of for shorthand, because we don't want to say, please pass the entire universe, including the mulberry trees and all that, because it just takes too long. So we call it, we give it a name, and we name it whatever we name it. But we know, if you know how it exists in emptiness, meaning it's empty of a separate self, a separate book bag self that exists kind of separately from air and trees and silk workers and designers and it can't exist separately from them. It exists with all that. So knowing that, knowing that it exists in emptiness, meaning emptiness of separate self, it exists with everything, we treat it with great care and respect because it is the entire world. But we still, for shorthand, call it a name, like book bag.

[49:11]

So in some ways, you know, Suzuki Roshi said, when you understand, not only Suzuki Roshi, but the Prajnaparamita, the emptiness, transcendent wisdom sutras talk about when, they use whatever example, when a book bag is truly a book bag, when a book bag is truly a book bag, then it is no longer a book bag anymore. Therefore, we call it a book bag. That's this little formula. When A is completely A, it's no longer A. Therefore, we call it A. And you can plug in anything. You know, when Linda is completely Linda, then she's no longer Linda. She is the entire cosmos, just like I was saying. Therefore, we call her Linda, you know, we call. And that's the same is true of all of us, and everything, and everything we handle,

[50:12]

and everything in the universe. So it's kind of a joke to think that you can pick up a book bag. You know, it's ludicrous. How could you do it? It's as if you're picking up, aside from the entire universe, you can't, where does that put you? Outside the universe somehow? You can't pull anything out of emptiness. So this kind of teaching, which is, you know, it can change your life, right? Because, and all of the, you know, practicing the precepts, observing the precepts is bringing your zazen into your everyday life. That's kind of the main, the most important point. It's not just to sit on your cushion in the zendo. It's to bring your zazen, bring your practice into your everyday life. So when the boy grabs your purse and falls down,

[51:16]

you are ready to meet that thoroughly with compassionate eyes, you know, to see that kid with eyes of compassion and give loving words and benevolence. So that's bringing your practice into your everyday life. So all the admonitions that we have about, you know, carefully doing things that we're always talking about, you know, the details of your life and dealing with other people and the objects of your life and keeping things mended and clean. It's not for some kind of moralistic reasons or that, you know, or obsessive compulsive kind of a thing about details. It's because it comes out of our understanding that each thing we handle is Buddha,

[52:21]

is the mind of Buddha, is Buddha nature, is emptiness. And there's nothing outside of that. There's a saying that there's no place to spit, you know. You know, you have this thing about, it's a Zen saying that there's no place, there's no spot of earth on which to spit because there's no place that's sort of not to be taken care of or treated with deep respect and reverence, you know, like as if there was some place over there in the alley, you know, that was, you didn't have to take care of. No, it's, there's no place like that. So the practice of bringing yourself into everyday life comes out of that understanding of the one precept. And then we divide it into 16 to kind of look at it at different angles, you know, not stealing. Well, you don't steal because what is there to steal? If you and the suede shoes or the purse are completely part of the universe,

[53:22]

it's already yours, you know. And you just, so then ask for it, find some skillful way to get it. So our seven or knees yesterday took these precepts and are now, you know, these beings who are, have made themselves, and they had made themselves before yesterday, but in a very prominent way, made themselves wish-fulfilling gems for the world, you know. And in the ceremony, several times it says, they had to repeat three times in different places, the preceptor, one of the preceptors said, even after having obtained Buddhahood, will you constantly abide and observe these precepts? And they said, yes, I will.

[54:24]

And then again, even after attaining Buddhahood, will you abide constantly and observe these precepts? So it's not like these precepts, you know, once you get kind of, after you've been practicing for a while and you had some insight or whatever, then you can kind of leave them alone. No, it's after you continue observing these, because the precepts are a way of saying in language, they're word precepts, pointing to how one acts in the world when you understand the one precept. So they're never dropped. They're never dropped. So on New Year's night, we launched lotus boats in the pond and we chanted, many of you were here for New Year's, we chanted, eyes of compassion, observing sentient beings,

[55:25]

assemble an ocean of blessings beyond measure. Eyes of compassion, we chanted this over and over, observing sentient beings, assemble an ocean of blessing beyond measure. And this is the chant about the Bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara, who hears the cries of the world, and this Bodhisattva sees suffering and looks upon beings with eyes of compassion. And when you look at beings with eyes of compassion, which each one of us can do, you assemble an ocean of blessings beyond measure. The understanding of Buddhist practices or the Buddhist way is to look on all beings as if they were your own children. You know, Mrs. Louise Bates Washington Jones said, you know, you could be my own son, I'd teach you right from wrong, or at least I'm going to wash your face. She completely looked at him, this was her kid,

[56:29]

she was going to do for him what she'd do for her own kid. This is Buddhist practice, looking on beings as if they were your own children, with eyes of compassion. And out of that looking comes this ocean of blessings beyond measure that comes not only to the beings that you're looking on, not only to that kid, but to you too. In self and other identification, you give oceans of blessings to someone and you receive too. How could you not? I just wanted to say that this story by Langston Hughes was pointed out to me by Susan Moon, because I had told another story, which is a Zen story, about a nun, which I'll tell now, and Susan said, it's the same story, have you read this? And she passed it on to me, Susan Moon,

[57:31]

and I did a writing and zazen workshop. So I'm going to close with this story about the nun, Jimon, and she was practicing, this was in the 18th century Japan, and she was practicing in a hut by herself, and it was late at night, and she heard something, and a thief came to her hut and broke in. And she was not flustered in the least, and she said, well, it must have been really cold coming across the fields and all the way to my hut on a night like this, you must be hungry too, here, why don't you sit down? And she cooked up some leftovers, and she had some gruel, and fed him. And then she said, you know, I've been looking at you, and I think you look like a fine young man, you could probably do pretty much anything that you set your mind to doing, and here you are, you know, relying on burglary,

[58:33]

and causing shame for yourself and your family, why don't you do this, why don't you take anything, I don't have that much, because I've given up my worldly possessions to become a nun, but why don't you take anything you see here, and use that, sell it, and use it to get some capital, and start yourself out on a new job of some sort. Well, he was so dumbfounded that he didn't take anything, and he just left. I always felt that he came back later and became her disciple, or became somebody's disciple somewhere. So, I think that's all. I'm going to be taking a leave of absence

[59:35]

for the next couple months, and so I won't be giving talks until probably March or so, so I wish everybody a happy New Year, and thank you for coming. So, this is question and answer time, and anything you'd like to talk about, or questions you might want to raise, and I think it's nice also if we can also help each other by adding and commenting on each other if we'd like to, it doesn't all have to be geared to me. Martin. This thing about emptiness,

[60:35]

I've been thinking about a lot when I'm doing my practice. What I've been doing in the practice of it, and I'd like to know if you think this is a good way to approach it, that I've been making it an effort, a real effort, to observe what's happening in my mind, in my emotions, in other words, my personal agenda or my personal drama, and I see how that separates me from other people, thinking about myself, being involved in all that. So, when it does come up for me, what I've been doing is observing it, and it goes away by itself, I'm trying not to hold on to it, by not being attached to it.

[61:39]

So, if I'm able to do that, I've noticed that I experience much more joy just being present, without that, going on. And it's a constant meditation, all day long. Sometimes I'm not too successful, something really grabs me and keeps on coming up, and I observe that too. Why keep going? So, the uninterrupted mindfulness of thoughts and emotions and feelings is your effort, that's where your effort is directed. Yeah. Well... That's okay.

[62:42]

Anyway, I feel like it's a very complete thing that you said, and I just encourage you to continue. I think the only danger part, or red flag, is adding some kind of thing of getting rid of, but it doesn't sound like you're saying that. You're just aware of, and they drop by themselves. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I have two pair of shoes. This one is a black-skinned shoe, and also I have my cotton black shoes. But recently when I talk to other people, it's kind of thinking I'm not real, and I'm not talking about the reality, actually.

[63:45]

It's kind of my understanding about emptiness, and I'm not talking about that. It's just the thing is more illusion. It's more illusion. So I'm just wondering, how is it if someone doesn't really have any shoes at all, how you practice, and you get involved, and talk about this teaching, and what you hear someone talk, if someone doesn't have any shoes at all? What's that? So if I understand what you said, I'm not sure I understood the first part. I understood the last question, which is for someone who has no shoes at all, how do you talk about the teaching of emptiness, or something like that? But the first part of what you said is,

[64:47]

you have two pairs of shoes, one black suede, and what's the other one? Cotton. Cotton shoes. Yes. And then I didn't understand what you said about, right in there. I just, I felt maybe it's, maybe when you have two black shoes, it's kind of easier understanding this. Yes, if you have... All the same, everybody's shoes, there's nothing to steal, we all have shoes, and all of that. I just find it's easier for the person like me, when I have two pairs of shoes, to relate and connect with that kind of talk. Well, I think one of the first things to give to people is material presence, material gifts. So, you know, it's pretty hard to study emptiness when you have an empty stomach, you know? So, to actually...

[65:48]

If you're in that situation to help someone, or make donations or whatever for food and clothing, those things really need to come first, you know, in many ways. Now, that's not a blanket statement, because I was just thinking of Akin Roshi beginning to practice Zen while in a prisoner of war camp, you know, when he was in Japan, and coming in contact with the teachings during a very particular stressful, painful time. So I don't think... I would say you must have a certain number of... There could be circumstances where even in great dire need, one could be open and hear the teachings and so forth. But I think often someone needs to be not in...

[67:01]

It's funny, every time I say one, I keep thinking of examples where that wouldn't be true, you know? So, but anyway, I think just in general, it's hard for people to study anything unless they are taken care of physically, you know, their bodies are taken care of. Sonja? When you answered this, it sounds like... How I hear the question is empty, like as if nothing, but I was just thinking we also chant, form is emptiness and emptiness is form, so it seems like giving food or shoes is also empty. But also form is form and emptiness is emptiness, right? So all those things can be said, yeah. So giving the gift of food, knowing truly the emptiness of the food you're giving,

[68:06]

you can have that understanding as you give the food. But it's also food is food and it will give nutrition and save someone's life or whatever. So it's not... Emptiness doesn't mean it actually exists in the world in a particular way and can give sustenance. So we're not saying that it doesn't act as food, if it's empty, it acts exactly as food. I don't know if we're getting off here, but did that meet your question, Mahi? I just... I trust this teaching and I know that's it for me. There's no question about that. But I just find that the other people mostly just think that kind of...

[69:08]

They find it more illusion, not real. So I kind of... The whole teaching and the whole thing is realistic. Is the realistic really just some kind of illusion? That kind of... I don't have really the answer if it's real or it's not. I don't know if it's real or not. But, you know, it works for me, it's real for me, but I really don't know if the person doesn't have the shoes. Doesn't have the shoes is that this kind of teaching is... I am real for that. My study or my learning is real or not. That's my question. Yeah. Well, you know, the basic underlying practice is skill and means. So, you know, the teaching of emptiness is something it's like...

[70:09]

Sometimes it's likened to if you're teaching emptiness, it's like eating plain salt. You can't eat plain chunks of salt. You get sick, right? But it flavors everything, you know, just enough to understand, have that understanding. But you always teach according to what the person is ready for, right? And, you know, maybe it was a mistake to bring up emptiness in that way during a lecture where there's so many new people because it may confuse people more than help people. I mean, I think that's something to be aware of. But anyway, I gave it a try. But there's risk, you know. So always to have in mind what is the most skillful thing, what meets the person's need. Taking the cues from the person is the best thing. And sometimes just being kind and offering food or clothing or a friendly smile or a kind word or loving words like I was saying,

[71:11]

that's what turns someone towards the teaching, is how you are as a person. They're drawn to you because you're such a fine person. And then later on they found out, oh, you sit zazen and you study emptiness and all this other stuff. But basically, you're just a wonderful person to be around. And that's usually what brings people to start practicing anyway, is meeting somebody who they feel really drawn to. They're just attracted to the person as a person. So I think that's mostly where to put your effort, you know. Thank you. Maybe you can help me with this. In your story, you know, the boy jumped the lady who was getting on the person. And she responded in this way that you outlined. And I'm in my own life thinking what happens if something like that happens

[72:15]

but instead of responding in a loving, benevolent way, you feel a lot of fear and intimidation. And I guess I'm in a situation like that and I'm looking for how to, and I recognize it, so I decide not to do anything because I don't want to come from that place of being reactive. So I'm looking for how do I shift when I know that I'm in that fear, vulnerable, intimidated place, you know, because they're my neighbors and I know how I can be loving and how I can be kind at the same time that it's real and authentic and not like a calculated move to resolve the situation. The situation is, I came on Christmas Eve and my downstairs neighbor was at a gun catalog in the mail

[73:16]

and there were some packages and slips. It seemed like he was ordering guns. The house is a duplex and it's kind of compacted even on separate units and it just upsets me to have guns in the same building. And I don't know these people well. It made me, my mind went a little bit spinning tails of why they might be buying guns. Upset me, and I'm still upset. I don't have a good way of shifting into a different, more of a human situation. Because I have an invaded space. I don't, this is this version to me. Yes. Well, it sounds like you've put a lot of effort into looking at it and staying with it, just how you described it. You know, the practice of, like with your neighbor,

[74:24]

so far nothing's happened, right? I mean, besides, you've seen these packages arrive. So, you know, the mind that leaps ahead into what it could be and what could happen to me and what if and what if is a mind that by definition really has, well, it's a fearful mind and anxiety and you can really, really get yourself in a state, a real state. But if you come back to what's happened now, nothing. It's totally fine. They're pleasant enough people. They say hello. I'm not threatened. I mean, if you actually come back to, right, you know. So there's that, bringing yourself back to what is actually happening now, you know. Are you okay? Are they doing anything? So, and that's a practice in and of itself,

[75:26]

because your mind will go, you know, it will go, but what, you know, you have to, what's going on now? So there's that, and then, which is a practice of mindfulness and being with your body and, you know, asking yourself questions almost, like, are you okay? Am I okay? As for, you know, what is the most skillful action to do, you know, and I think these loving, you know, loving words and benevolence and giving and identification, it's formless, you know, there's not a particular, it doesn't look a certain way. Mrs. Luella Bates-Jones, Washington Jones, hers looked her way, and it comes out of her whole past, her life, her experiences, the neighborhood, how she, everything is how she responded. And somebody else could have also a skillful response,

[76:29]

totally different, you know, it would look much different, and so there isn't any formula to follow. What is your unique, you know, meeting with these people? And maybe it's inviting them up to tea, you know, and letting them know your concern or da-da-da. I mean, I don't know, I just made that up. Or maybe, whatever. But somehow it will have to come out of your intelligence and presence and awareness and care and not out of leaping into the future. So I don't know, you know, but it sometimes can be very creative, you know, what you come up with. Yes?

[77:34]

So I was wondering maybe you could help clear some confusion I have surrounding one of the precepts, a very important precept, which is do not kill. Is that limited to the animal kingdom, or does that extend through time as well? Well, the thing about the precept, disciple of the Buddha does not kill, is you can, if you take it literally, like do not kill, it cannot be observed, because in order to live, you have to at least kill lettuce and carrots and apples, right? If you don't have apples and carrots and lettuce and so forth, you end up killing yourself, right? So it's like a double bind. The practice of a disciple of the Buddha does not kill, literally speaking, is impossible in some way.

[78:36]

And as soon as you take it up, you see that. As soon as you think, well, I'm going to practice this. Or you might think, well, I already do practice it. Sure, I do. I don't kill. And then you look, and you see, well, I do, and I do here, here, and here. So it's not... So then how do you live in a world where in some ways it's impossible to carry that forth? Do you just throw it out the window and say, yeah, I can kill whatever because I can't not kill, so I might as well kill whatever, right? That would be an extreme one way. And the other way is like the Jains. Are you familiar with the Jain religion where they... Right, right, and they strain their water and they... Certain fruits they can't eat, like figs, because there's so many seeds, which is potential life, that they're killing that they can't eat those things. Anyway, so there's taking it to that extreme. So what is the way to follow this precept?

[79:42]

And that is out of compassion and out of an understanding that now... So in the literal way, you can't live but killing. That's living and dying. Living and killing is completely one event. You can't separate it. So there's that. And then... So how do you live compassionately and thoroughly to know when you kill each time and to acknowledge it? Like the chant we do before meals, there's a long chant we do and then there's a shorter chant, which is... I have to put my hands in gosh, I can't chant. We venerate the three treasures and give thanks for this food, the work of many people, and the suffering of other forms of life. So in the chant, as you're about to eat whatever, but even if it's your fruit salad, you acknowledge the suffering of other forms of life.

[80:43]

So this is part of your consciousness while eating and you are willing to do that. For what reason? Willing to kill apples and carrots for the purpose of continuing your practice and keeping your body strong and healthy so that you can continue practicing and helping other beings. You're willing to do that. Now, someone may not be willing and may starve themselves. So anyway... But then there's also killing in terms of killing the spirit of other people, like their creativity or their positive energy. You can kill people in lots of ways, with harsh speech and sarcasm and dominating activity without using a weapon or anything. So anyway, if you're to take up that precept

[81:47]

and really practice it, you see in all the different ways how you do break it and how you do make an attempt to keep it. I mean, you can also observe it, you know. Like spiders, for example. Spiders, ever since reading Charlotte's Web, and maybe this is the same for all of you, it's pretty hard to kill spiders anymore, right? But I remember a time as a kid when I was very frightened of spiders and I would take a shoe and go hunting before bed. We had a sleeping porch and I would make sure every spider was gone. Really gone. But now we have lots of spiders at Green College and I have another way of, you know, we have a spider catcher, you know. But it takes, you know, it takes some effort and you've got to make sure that you don't, when you get them in the spider catcher, catch their legs, you know, because Daddy Long Leg's legs are really... So you have to bring that precept

[82:49]

into all parts of your consciousness. It's not just, oh yeah, I don't want to kill spiders anymore. Oh gee, I guess I did. You know, you actually carefully get it in there or capture it and it's going to take time and it's going to be... But you make that effort if you decide to do that, you know. Well, Gary Schneider and other interpreters have said this, do not harm unnecessarily. I mean, it allows, I think, following your interpretation, allows for more subjective interpretation. You can say your personal health, some people will die very slowly if they follow a strictly vegetarian diet. It also allows for a better gathering of societies. Do we need, but how much less of an impact than those of us who live in a large-scale agricultural society? Okay, reassured. That was one precept I found to be a bit dogmatic.

[83:49]

Uh-huh. There is a modern interpretation that allows for, I guess, a bit more ease. I mean, following the precept, strictly moral, but not to the point where you kill yourself. Right. Well, I think that it's not, I wouldn't, I'm not sure if it's modern or if it's always been looked at like that. I mean, I think the Buddha would eat whatever they put in his bowl if it was meat, or the monks and nuns were not allowed to eat meat that had been killed, especially for them, like for, I'm going to kill this chicken and cook for the monks. They couldn't, that was not allowable in terms of the precepts that they took. But if they just were going from door to door and someone put leftover or whatever, or food in there that was meat, they would receive that as pure food. So I think it's always had, it's not a kind of dogmatic. It doesn't, it's too complicated.

[84:51]

Our lives are too complicated, you know. But you can go with the literal, you know, and get, you find pretty soon that you're, you get pretty kind of wrapped up and can't live, you know. Uh-huh, yeah. Well, there is the literal, you can literally follow, and there's three ways that we talk about the literal, the compassionate and the absolute. And the absolute, which, you know, I hesitate to say because it can be misinterpreted, but since we can talk about it and you can ask questions, I will. The absolute is that you can't kill anything, really. And that comes out of the truth of the one precept of emptiness and interpenetration. Life cannot be killed, even if it looks like you're killing over there, over there. Life goes on living. It's all... But if you say that to someone, then they might take that as a license to kill. But that isn't what it's saying.

[85:52]

It's out of understanding Buddha nature that you could say that. So there's three ways, and they all kind of inform each other. Okay, thank you for the question. I've had a lot of personal therapy in my life, and coming new to this, I'm curious. I've spent a lot of time just bolstering up my sense of myself and how to now understand how I can connect this to what I'm hearing about Buddhism. Yeah, that's a great question. Let's see. The Buddhism does not say that there isn't a self.

[86:54]

The teaching is that there isn't an inherent self, a self that we believe in that's actually a false kind of self that we believe in, which is not connected. That self is really a figment of our imaginations, but we believe in it, and we cling to that very strongly, and then we break all the precepts in order to protect or get stuff for that self, which doesn't exist in that way that we believe it to exist. So there is the inherent self that we believe in, that we think of as being the separate thing, and then there is the self that arises, and we map one on top of the other. We map the belief in inherent self on the self that arises in a conditioned co-production way

[87:57]

that's interpenetrated with everything. That self, there's no problem with that self, but this inherent self, we kind of do that, and we just think there's this one, and if you can kind of do that, kind of unhinge them and see how this actually doesn't exist in the way we believe it to exist, there's no problem with a self. So I think that's been a misunderstanding of Buddhism forever, about you've got to get rid of the self, and then people mix that up with being sort of self-effacing or kind of doormat life, or don't worry about me, I'll just sit in the dark kind of a thing. And that's also full of self in the inherent self way. That's just got as much, but from the other side. The kind of other side of the coin of inflation is effacement.

[89:03]

Or doormat style. It's all based on a certain kind of belief in self, but the self that keeps being talked about in terms of your own true self or find your own true self and express yourself is a wide, wide understanding that, and there's no problem with that, that's encouraged to discover it. And therapy can be very, very helpful in that way. I think for many people, their Zazen practice, well either they started Zazen after a lot of therapy where they were really ready to sit and face the wall and face who they were, and for other people they had to sit a lot before they were ready for therapy. They sat for 10, 12 years and then did some very particular work. So I think they're very supportive of therapy and practice. Paula?

[90:05]

Not necessarily. I thought maybe if you gave her the Dogen quote, to study the self. Do you want to give it to her? I think you'll do it more accurately. What Paula's referring to is a quote that's, you see it a lot and it's from, are you familiar with Dogen Zenji? Yeah, Dogen Zenji was the, in the 1200s brought, went to China and brought back a particular Buddhist teaching and then his lineage, we come from that lineage, the Zen Center does. And the quote is, to study the self, to study Buddhism is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be enlightened by, somebody has to help me, be enlightened by 10,000 things. Yes? Did I do it right? Yeah. So you start out with,

[91:06]

okay, well I want to study Buddhism, so what do I do? And then they say, well study yourself. And that's, you know, Zazen and precepts and all the teachings always turns this way, you know, rather than studying other people's behavior, you study what's going on with you. And the more you study, you forget that self that's, that one that you believe in it to be inherent. It doesn't, it begins to not hold water, you know. So you forget, so to study the self is to forget the self and to forget the self is to be enlightened by all things which the entire, if you're not bringing yourself forward to kind of make sense of the world according to this inherent self and going out looking for it to be established and reiterated and I don't know what else. If you're practicing uprightness, not leaning forward but uprightness, the whole world comes and meets you there.

[92:08]

You don't have to go out looking according to your design, you know. You don't have to have any designs. It will all come. Martin, you have a problem with that? Yes. Regarding individual therapy, I've done a lot of therapy myself and something always bothers me about therapy and that was that on some level you're trying to fix the limited self or help it cope better in the world or clear up something for the limited self or something more happy in the world. But then it comes down to, at least for me, of doing that and also letting go of it all, of the limited self, knowing that even in talking about it and contemplating it and helping it and holding on to that and trying to fix it in some way,

[93:12]

you're keeping yourself stuck by just doing that, by not being inept. So it's almost like one is contradictory to the other. Well, I've also done therapy, been in therapy, am doing therapy, and I guess when the two, the way I think of it is not so much therapy as to fix, but another way of studying the self. That's how I see it. So my effort is not to fix and cope as much as studying what's going on. And the more you study and the more you're aware, it's possible, if you're not aware of what's going on, it's got you by the throat. It's got you actually by the back because you can't see.

[94:15]

So the more you can bring things here in front to study, the more you let go, or they let go, or it lets go. So I think I see it as a kind of tool, a very particular tool, but not so much trying to fix. That's how I see it. Well, it's changed for me. At one time, years ago, it was trying more to fix it. Now, it's more of being aware. What I'm actually doing. But I think a lot of people that are in therapy, maybe in Rome, are going there to fix something. And I think the therapist is trying to help them along that line. Well, I think that may be so. Yeah. Which is why it's nice to go to somebody who sits. Well, I think that that may be so. Yeah.

[95:14]

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