As it passes through China. Anybody else? What came up for you? Yes, please. Could you use the microphone? It's right behind you. We spoke a lot about how poetry is a wonderful medium for experiencing something which is actually inexpressible through language. Yeah. Great. Expressing through language, which is inexpressible through language, which is what Dogen's doing, right? Sometimes his poems are really confusing to me. They are beautiful, but... David, all the way in the back. Can you hand the microphone back?

[01:02]

Concert style. Thank you. So this... So this brings up something I get tangled in. So... Bouchot or Dogen writes and uses language, but we're saying now that he's trying to express something that isn't language. I think, number one, for me, it's kind of a trick that's being played on me, on us, that is, at least I fall into this thing, is when I start using language, I start using language. I feel like I'm pulled into that The other side of it, too, is that language is language, no matter how you slice it.

[02:07]

If he's trying to take us somewhere, we still have to construct meaning out of that. It's never going to be the experience. I have to construct that experience out of my conceptualization of what he's putting forward. So, I don't know, I guess I don't see a way around it in a way. See a way around what? Using language? Using language and getting into an idea of something. Yeah, we're going to talk about that, about how it is that you talk about these things. How we talk about it and maybe how we get around it. One of the most useful expressions I heard once, which is directly related to what you're talking about, is that the map is not the territory. And we need the map, and the map is the language, and the territory is the territory, and we need the map to help us, sometimes guide us towards the territory, but the territory is experiential. And the two don't meet. They don't meet.

[03:10]

So it's up to us to do our homework to learn how to get into experiencing and not to fall into the trap of the seduction of language. Yeah. because it really settles us well into the world of the relative, and we're very familiar with it, and we like using it, and so we've got to be our own sort of, you know, open the gates to the prison, you know, and let ourselves out. And I think it's also possible, I see myself do this sometimes, to be really dismissive of language and the human experience, but language and our human experience is included in ultimate reality. So, you know, our language maybe doesn't express the fundamental truth, but it's also not separate from it in some way. So to, you know, have a healthy respect for language at the same time that I recognize its limitations I think is helpful. Oh, this is going to be fun.

[04:11]

Okay, that's all the time we have. I just want to let you know what the reading is for next week. And I'll send this out over the weekend to people who have registered. It's the section that I chose. It's the section that Kim chose, which is pages four through six. Of the three translations that we sent you guys. Comparative translation. But simple, send it out as well. So if you're signed up, you'll see that anyway. Yeah, I'm not going to send it out again. I'm just sending out the pages because I've already sent it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Send out the pages, page four to six. So it's not very long. It's just a couple of pages. I mean, I might as well send out everyone's as well. It's just three numbers. What else did we say at the end to ask people to help us clean up and put things back? Yeah, if a few people could stay behind and help us put the Zendo back to the way it was before and help Dan put back some of this AV stuff. Also, this was the very first one at this particular salon style time.

[05:16]

So if anyone has any suggestions or comments or feedback. We'd love to hear what you liked, what you didn't like. Just stop us. Hi, Emily. If we want to sign up, where do we sign up? Thank you. The easiest place to do that is to go to the website, the Zen Center website. sfcc.org. sfcc.org. And go to the calendar and find one of the listings for these Wednesday Night Boo Show salons. And there's a free registration link through there. Yeah, but like I said, we're all very, very willing to hear feedback so we know what you like. And I know lots of you want to give the feedback that we didn't bow in tonight. Oh, I forgot. Don't worry, it's marked. We'll make sure that we do that in the future. We're very sorry about that. I can feel Paul's eyebrow from here. Three priests right here, really bad, really bad. Okay. All right. Thank you, everybody. Thank you all very much. Thank you so much. See you next Wednesday.

[06:18]

You can hit the whole one.

[06:45]

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