Thank you. Thank you.

[17:18]

Good morning. I'm so happy to be here this morning to see all of you in this wonderful room. I asked today that we not have the overhead light on. I wanted us to have natural light. I wanted you to feel the sun. shift through the room in this next period of time. I wanted you to experience the shadows and the pattern on the floor and to let Mother Earth speak today without artificial illumination. I need to start with some thank yous. Thank you for inviting me to speak.

[19:17]

Thank you to my teachers, Ed Sattethan and Linda Ruth Cutts, who have guided me and taught me, who I've read with, who I've listened to, who I've written with, who I've traveled with. They are here in the room today as well. And I have a special shout-out to the volunteers that have been working and are continuing to work in the library. And that's really why I'm here today. I'm here to speak for the books. I'm here to represent the library. I'm here to make their voices heard as they quietly and peacefully enter into a box, a box that's being put away. for an entire year some of the volunteers are here in the room you know who you are and some of you are coming this afternoon without that effort that huge effort like 20 over 20 people signed up to come to the library to help move these books I think that's so incredible it's really it's just a great example of work practice so thank you

[20:47]

So why do I say I'm speaking for the library and speaking for the books? Something really weird happened yesterday. The first group of people that were in the library, we walked in the library, all the books were on the shelves sitting where they live. And we had a three-hour period of working. And when we came back at the break... I asked them to just be quiet for a minute in the room and see if they noticed had anything changed in the room. And something had. It was more quiet. It was noticeable. It was almost as though the voices of the books, their conversations with each other, or the way they speak, had been modified. And I'm assuming, as the day continues today, and perhaps tomorrow, with a bit of sadness, I will say that room will be silent.

[22:01]

It will be empty. It will not have any books sitting on the shelves for an entire year. Kind of gives me the chills. And yet, with these volunteers and with this huge effort this weekend, we're able to take good care of them. I'm aware that, you know, books aren't, you know, I'd say, probably if I asked you, most of you would raise your hand saying if you needed some knowledge, if you needed some information, you would go online, right? And I do it as well. but books are a little bit different. And I was trying to figure out a way not to be an old lady looking sentimental up here, you know, like, oh, you've got to read books, right? That's not why I'm here. That's not what I want to say. I think it's about thinking how we illuminate our lives and what we turn to and what's habit and maybe what is a change-out.

[23:15]

So one of the changes, I hope, or maybe additions you'll consider after this morning is finding a book this afternoon. Any book. Take a look at it. Page through it. See how it feels in your hand. How heavy is it? What page did you turn to? In advertising for volunteers, the word rescue was used, and Brent and I went round and round about that. Like, what are we rescuing them from? Like, what's happening here? I'm not sure that we're rescuing them, but I do think that we're caring for them, and we want to make sure they survive. I brought three books with me today. One is the... This morning I pulled it out of my library. It's the oldest book that I have. I had it as a child, and it's dated, are you ready for this?

[24:18]

1942. Another book is Dogen, which is kind of always, Dogen's always right by my side. And the other book is my most recent book on Dogen. So I'm going to dip into those today as well. Thank you. I was thinking about where the library sits in our centers. So I don't know if you all have been to Tassajara and Green Gulch as well as Zen Center, but think about where those libraries are. So the library here, most obviously, is in the basement. And for a long time, that really bothered me. Like, it takes a real effort to get to the library. You've got to find your way. It's down, there's not that many windows. It's kind of dark in there. Sometimes it's cold. But then I decided to shift that, and I realized it's right next to the zendo.

[25:21]

It's right next to the zendo. It couldn't be nearer to the heart of our practice, the library. So just like... Soto Zen it's not jumping out there's no you know if you walk in to city center you're not going to see a big sign that says library with an arrow you have to find it and there it is right next to the Zendo and then I thought about the Tassajara library which is probably one of the sweetest libraries around right people used to live in that library they've told me stories about sleeping with the books and And again, that library is right next to the Zendo. It's just a few steps away. It's so close and intimate and beautiful and kind. And then the third library, Green Gulch Farm. So that library kind of has a bit of history.

[26:27]

It used to be in a room upstairs with a fireplace. Some of you may remember. And I used to sleep overnight there in the old days in amongst the books. And that's where the libraries were kept. But they started to degrade because of the weather in the room. So when there was a renovation, they were moved to the basement. And again, I thought, oh, they put the library in the basement. Nobody's going to be able to find it. Then when I was rethinking this, I realized, wait, it's right underneath the zendo. When you're sitting in the zendo at Green Gulch, the library is directly under you. So these books, these voices, are all available to us even when we're sitting zazen in the zendo. Roger, remember that clock?

[27:34]

Who's on first? Better get going here. So I kind of divided this talk up into some arenas. I wanted to talk about reading versus hearing, and I wanted to talk about my relationship to words, and then I want to talk a little bit about practice and study and their relationship. Last week I had a conversation with somebody who said, oh, I never read Dogen. Like, oh, don't even bring Dogen near me. I don't want to have anything to do with Dogen. And then kind of inside I was thinking, well, you know, every time you listen to a Suzuki Roshi lecture, He's talking about Dogen. So there are lots and lots of ways that we read or we hear the Dharma. And so what is the Dharma?

[28:40]

The Dharma is the teaching, right? And it's said that reading is scholarship and that hearing is demonstration. When I first started giving these talks, I come from a history of academia where you give a lecture. And a lecture is about information. But Dharma talks are about demonstration. Like kind of what's coming out of my mouth. I'm not sure how important it is. But the idea of kind of taking up a teaching and demonstrating it to those people that you're sharing it with. Reading is more contemplative. You can digest it. You can apply it. And when you hold a book, when you read something, you have a chance to ponder, to pause, to revisit.

[29:47]

Those are all, I think, really important elements that have to do with getting to know and understanding the Dharma. We have a lot of spoken words that are written down. When you think about it, everything we read of Suzuki Roshi's was a spoken word. He himself never wrote down his talks. Even Dogen, you know, even the Buddha, a lot of the reading that we consider reading having been written is actually something that was originally heard and then put down on paper. So Dharma reading is different from all the other reading. And if you've picked up a sutra, you probably are familiar with this. So some of the things that Dharma reading are not, is not, it's not information.

[30:51]

It's not data. It doesn't explain. And it's best done with discussion. It's really helpful when you're reading the Dharma to share it with someone else or a group so that you can begin to understand it. When the Buddha was asked to teach, we all know what he did, right? He just stood up and he stepped off the the days he was silent. If that silence had been allowed to endure, we probably wouldn't have the teaching that we have today. So thank you for all those people who've listened to these words and have written them down over the years.

[31:54]

I think it's a good time to crack open this first book. This is a stretch. It's a bit of a risk. It's called Twig. So some of you may know I was born and raised in Montana. I learned how to ride a horse before I learned how to walk. That was my world. And I've kept this book... my whole life. And I got up early this morning and decided to read some of it. And I was thinking, I wonder if there's Dharma in here. And I found what I think is potentially, I'll suggest an example. So just to put this in context, I lived in Montana. There was horses, mountains, snow.

[33:02]

This is a book about a young girl living in New York in a tenement. I remember the first time I went to New York, and my father was with me, and we drove past a window, and it said flea market. And I said to my father, oh, did the flea shop there? So I grew up kind of in a somewhat sheltered space. So here's what I want to read to you. Down in the backyard, no grass grew, but a dandelion stood there all by itself. It had long leaves that were bent over like the branches of a tiny tree, and it had a tall stalk. At the top of its stalk was a little round bud, just a plain, ordinary little round bud. But inside it, inside of it, was a beautiful flower.

[34:06]

Someday, maybe today, the little bud would open and the flower and let the flower show. Twig could see the dandelion from where she stood. It looked very green, away down there, against the bare brown ground. So this is a young girl who lives in a tenement, is extremely poor, but has a great imagination. And I think that without... I don't need to tell you the story because it's not like a major breaker story, but she sees this dandelion and she has this idea about it, about what it will become. And... It's not a weed, it's just a dandelion, just that's it. So I hope that you enjoyed hearing that.

[35:11]

My own relationship to words has been both, when I was very little I actually wrote books and I always, because of where I lived, books were very important because there wasn't too much going on. where I was growing up. The first time I heard what I will say the Dharma was in France. I used to be part of a Korean Zen center. And one day, one of the students came up and he said, I heard about this teacher, Suzuki Roshi. I want you to listen to this audio tape. And he gave it to me and I sat down and I heard Suzuki Roshi's voice. and remember it to this day. It grabbed my heart. I don't remember his words. I remember his voice.

[36:18]

And that was the beginning, I think, of me making friends with the Dharma. Then when I began to practice here, I had a real aversion to reading. I'd see these study groups and go, oh no, I'm just going to sit Sassan. That's what I do. And that lasted for many, many years. I did not touch a book, a Buddhist book, for many, many years. That changed because of Dogen. Somebody introduced me to Dogen, or I passed by him, or somebody taught Dogen, And I went, wow, who's that? And I do not understand this at all. So I joined a study group with Shinshu Roberts. Some of you were in that group. And we studied Dogen for years, years and years and years.

[37:26]

We studied so much that then I decided... I needed to read more and I kept adding books and reading more and reading more and meeting readers and meeting writers. And so I actually put that together and went back to graduate school to study Buddhist scholarship and really immerse myself in everything that was available. And then I made a stab at writing about it. which is this book. And generally speaking, authors don't get up here and talk about their books. So it's not that this isn't an infomercial. But I think it's important in the context of this talk because one of the things that's been told to me is if you don't understand the Dharma, what you're reading, then look at the commentaries. Read what somebody's writing about it.

[38:33]

see if the way that they have re-evaluated it, reconsidered it, maybe in contemporary language, will allow you access. And this book came about because I was having a conversation with someone named Steve Stuckey, who some of you may have known, and who I studied with here. And we were talking about Dogen, and I said, I really don't understand Dogen. I don't know how to understand it. And he said, well, why don't you use your love and nature to explore Dogen? And that was like this key. You know, it just like unlocked something. And that's really how this book came to be. And so I started to imagine, a little like Twig, what did Dogen see when he was writing? What did he look out when he looked out the window? What informed his eyes?

[39:34]

What inspired him? What influenced him? And maybe how did that impact his writing? So I thought I'd share a page from this book that I think is intriguing. The end of the book is... I invited four Dobin scholars to... write on Dogen excerpts that I picked out. And this one has a commentary by Michael Wenger, who is an incredibly gifted and amazing scholar and practitioner. So the excerpt is from the Shobogenzo. And it goes like this. So this is the Dharma, say, that you would read in the Shobho Genso. Once you have clarity, do not neglect a single day.

[40:38]

Wholeheartedly practice for the sake of the way and speak for the sake of the way. We know that Buddha ancestors of old did not neglect each day's endeavor. Reflect on this every day. Sit near a bright window and reflect on this on mellow and flower-filled days. Sit in a plain building and remember it on a solitary rainy evening. Why do the moments of time steal your endeavor? And this is what Michael sent back to me to be included in the book, his ideas, after reading that excerpt. Dogen's garden is right before us. His clarity here is not the clarity of subtraction, but the clarity of connection. To practice in the midst of connectedness is wondrousness. Buddhism is a living entity, alive in our tender participation with everything.

[41:46]

Neglect encourages weeds. Weeds in themselves can be used to nourish, but they too need to be cultivated. to be practiced with. By manifesting ourselves, the world comes alive. Time can momentarily steal our sense of aliveness if we lose the sense of continuity and participation. Each flowering is a culmination, an ending, and a new beginning. Dogen may have lived a long time ago, but his connection to us is palpable, His teachings, his garden lives on through us. Don't waste time. I need to make a choice.

[42:53]

I'd like to talk a little bit about Blanche and about ways to read the Dharma. So when you leave the room today, outside on the table, I printed out a reading list. There's three recommendations there. One is from Blanche Hartman, who was an abateer. The second is from Norman Fisher, another one of our esteemed teachers. And the third is just a couple of additions that I added. Blanche was one of my early teachers and one of my most profound. She said that studying the teachings of contemporary teachers in the tradition that you are practicing, teachers that are directed to practicing students, that is the way to study the Dharma. That is, rather than studying writings about Buddhism, studying the writings of teachers face to face. So what does that mean?

[44:06]

I mean, of course, take all of this with a grain of salt. These are suggestions. You all have your own habits and preferences. But I like what she's saying. She's basically saying, contemporize it. Try to make a way that it's accessible to you. Like Steve Sookie said to me, use your love of nature to find a way to navigate. Build the right boat. And I like the way Blanche built boats. There are lots of ways to read the Dharma. And I'd like to read this list for you because it's pretty incredible. And maybe one of these is already part of your daily practice. Or maybe there's something on this list that you'd like to try out. Or maybe there's something on this list that you'll never do.

[45:08]

One, which is a favorite of my teacher, Linda Ruth, is to memorize. And I asked her the other day, why do you have us memorize, memorize Dogen, memorize these sutras? And she said, if you learn it by heart, it is you. It will come to you when you need it. Another way is to read the sutras. Challenging. It's a whole different style of language. The words of the Buddha and these words were spoken first and then written down later. And usually most sutras in the library, we have lots and lots of sutras and lots and lots of commentary. They're meant to be read slowly. And in temples in Japan, there's actually a room set aside for copying the sutra. which is a very beautiful formal temple art that we've done now and then at our campuses.

[46:13]

Another way to read the Dharma are koans. And these are basically stories or puzzles to teach, and there's usually a verbal exchange. They show you something, but they don't explain. So that's another style of a way to read the Dharma. And then there's poems. So historically in Japan, poems were used the way that's how people communicated with each other. I would leave a poem for Roger, and the next morning he would leave a poem for me at my door. And that would be how people conversed and how they shared ideas. And then there are tales, like the Jataka tales. These are stories written long after the Buddha died, and they use these stories in a way to teach. And then there's scholars and teachers like Dogen, where there's a combination of philosophy and Dharma.

[47:21]

So I'll just read a quick, quick little Dogen here that I think is a beautiful addition to the day. And this is in only a Buddha and a Buddha. So lots of times, you know, we hear face-to-face transmission. And I think, you know, in an ideal world, that's when you're actually looking at someone, there's two people, or at least two people facing each other. But I'd like to think that you can do that with a book as well. That that's a kind of face-to-face transmission. So in his section on only a Buddha and a Buddha, this is how he ends that fascicle. And this is the... So he's talking about traces. We do talk a lot about birds in the sky, fish in the water, and where have they been, where are they going, how do you know they were there, leave no trace.

[48:30]

We talk about trace a lot. and what that represents in our lives, and especially in community. You may wonder why you do not know. The reason is that while Buddhas see these traces with Buddha's eye, those who are not Buddhas do not have a Buddha's eye. And just notice the Buddha's attributes. All who do not know should search out the trace. of the Buddha's path. If you find footprints, you should investigate whether they are the Buddha's. On being investigated, the Buddha's trace is known, and whether it is long or short, shallow or deep, it is also known. To illuminate your trace is accomplished by studying the Buddha's trace. Accomplishing this is Buddha Dharma. I want to include Suzuki Roshi before I start to close up shop here.

[49:47]

I was looking through, trying to see, what does he say about reading? What's his idea about reading the Dharma? And I found this. And I think it alludes to this idea about how do we practice, how do we balance study and practice? It's not one or the other, right? You can't just sit in a room and read, and you can't just sit zazen all the time. So how do you put those together? What's the recipe? What makes it work? So Suzuki Roshi said, books we have, these are transcriptions of his talks. Someone heard it first. It's very intellectual. Attaching to someone else's words is very intellectual. Commentary is important.

[50:48]

So he's kind of saying the same thing that Blanche Hartman said, that you have to put it in a context. You have to consider how you're going to digest it. And lots and lots of times I've read that reading is not such a good idea if you're practicing Buddhism, but... I don't align with that at all. Linda Bruce said that there are three legs that have to do with balancing practice and study. Zazen, study, and meeting with a teacher. Those three things are really important. Suzuki Roshi also said, The teaching that is written on paper is not the true teaching. Written teaching is a kind of food for your brain. Of course it is necessary to take some food for your brain, but it is more important to be yourself by practicing the right way of life.

[51:56]

The teaching that is written on paper is not the true teaching. Written teaching is a kind of food for your brain. Of course, it is necessary to take some food for your brain, but it's more important to be yourself by practicing the right way of life. And in preparing to speak today, that's one of the things that has really resonated throughout for me, has been this idea that when you read the Dharma, when it touches your heart, when you connect to it in a heartfelt way, then you have a kind of understanding. and only in that way. And that takes tremendous effort and diligence. I'm going to pick Kafka to choose to close with rather than a poem by Hirschfeld, because it's kind of...

[53:09]

It's a little bit aggressive, but I like it. Here's what he said. Great writing can entertain, enlighten, and even empower. But one of the greatest gifts to us is its ability to unsettle, prodding us to search for our own moral, the story a book must be an axe for the frozen sea inside us please take a copy of the reading list and come by the library this afternoon and see what we're doing thank you very much so we have some time now for questions If you have a question, please raise your hand.

[54:12]

And if you're online, you can raise your Zoom hand as well. Looks like we have one over here. First, thank you for your talk. I deeply connected with it. I'm an avid reader, and it kind of showed me what else I can do to, sorry, can you hear me better now? It's better now. Just write like you're going to swallow it. So as I was saying, first, thank you for your talk. I deeply connected with it. I'm an avid reader, and that showed me what else I can do in terms of moving forward with my practice. What I would like you to comment on is one of the things you read, and the end of it said, don't waste time. And I just would like you to comment on that because... I have a feeling that it can be misleading of what is wasting time.

[55:14]

I almost feel that... I read the other day that time is this fabric of life, and we kind of misunderstand it, thinking that it's a resource, that it can be wasted, or something that we have to run against the clock. So... I would like you to comment on that. What is not to waste time, in your view? Yeah. Thank you for that deep question. You might have heard this morning, before I came downstairs, there was a wooden structure that was being struck, and on that is written, don't waste time. It's one of the key phrases that we have embedded in our practice. Did I lose my... Oops. Oopsie. Don't waste my voice. Let's see. Do it this way.

[56:24]

Is that better now? Okay. So don't waste time is a really important part of practice here. And... It's not about it being a commodity or something that we store up or we decide how we're going to use it. It just keeps going, right? So wasting it, it's the wasting meaning you just have this moment. You just have right now. That's it. So be here for it. Be present for it. Be aware and alive and awake for it. Don't miss it. So it's not about collecting it up or spreading it around because we can't control it. It's more about that. That's a great answer. Thank you. Lots of questions.

[57:30]

Let's start on this side of the room and then we'll come back over. Hi there. Hi. Thank you so much for your talk. One quick comment. I loved how you were talking about the proximity of the library to the zendo. And I was thinking about up until recently here, sewing in the library and also at Green Gulch, that that's also the sewing room. And that as we're suturing and kind of suturing the dharma, that that's maybe a form of suture copying in some way as we're making our robes. And I hadn't thought about that. that context of being surrounded by the Dharma in that way. And my question is, I know that you're also a visual artist and I've been thinking about reading and how it has both the visual elements and we're hearing words in our head and I was wondering if you could say something about the relationship between the visual and auditory elements of books.

[58:37]

Of books. Of books. Oh, that's so great. I love that. It depends on the book, of course. It's kind of like a marriage or a loving relationship. They have to enrich each other. They can't fight for attention. And they can't be decorative either or unnecessary. I'd say that almost all of my work has had writing connected to it from the very beginning. All my photographs. I'm a photographer. But those words usually were carefully selected in terms of who I wanted to have whose words I wanted to be alongside my photographs.

[59:39]

Or, actually, what's happening right now, in this moment, is for the last three years, I've been doing this series. I have over 300 of them now. I don't know what's going to happen with them, but I read every day, and when something jumps out at me, I copy it onto a page, and then... I look right then, I look through my photographs from the last, say, 30 days, and I almost always find an image that resonates with those words. And so it's a diptych. So I have all those diptychs that are, I hope, you know, they have this association. One of the words that was spoken to me when I was preparing for this by my teachers was... The idea of illuminating. So, you know, if you've ever had a chance to look at an illuminated manuscript, oh man, like unbelievable. So illuminate is like this.

[60:44]

That's why this is an illumination. I wanted to have this illumination. I didn't want to have that illumination. So illuminating is a way that we can play with words and images. And it's not always necessary, of course. But hopefully there's some way in which the work talks to you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And I love the connection to sewing. I was just actually talking to one of the sewing teachers yesterday, and I had this idea that since the library's going to be closed, maybe I'm going to start going to the sewing room and see what I could do there. Because I think sewing is very similar to reading. Hi. Hi. Really touched by the way you speak of books, physical books, just really incredible for me.

[61:46]

We were just talking last night in a sangha that I'm in, or in a group of men that I'm in, about accessing, in this case, Vimalakirti through Dale Wright. That's how I expressed that I got there. Because the sutra is difficult to read, or it is for me. And I had the same experience of Dogen. I can read Fisher, I can read Riot, I can read all the modern guys, but I'm really struggling to access Dogen. So do you have any other suggestions? Maybe it's not time. maybe my short seven years of practice has just not given me what I need yet. I don't know. Do you have any other suggestions on how can I actually access some of that old Dharma? You mean Dogen's words? I mean Dogen, actually, specifically, because I thought I was going to love him. And then I didn't. Yeah, I think that...

[62:51]

That's a question that comes up a lot around Dogen. I'm not really an advice person, but there's so many people in this room who can answer this. I'll give it a stab. I think when you want to learn something, you have to figure out what works for you. I do feel that reading... If you're reading something that is unavailable or confusing, then sharing those words with other people really helps. I love study groups. I think I'm in three study groups right now. I love being in a study group, and I love exploring. And... So there's a whole Dogen Institute. There are lots of people in this room that are studying Dogen.

[63:52]

And I guess I would say don't do it alone, whatever that means. That doesn't mean someone else has to be in the room, but don't do it alone. Don't practice alone. You can't anyway. Hi. Hidden over there, Gary. Okay. Okay. Yes, thank you. And good luck. Maybe I'll just take one question online and then we'll come over to the set. Oh, gosh, wait a minute. I have to say, I forgot to say hello to the people online. So thank you for listening and watching. You can go ahead, Griffin. Do you have to unmute yourself? Hi, Marcia.

[64:55]

It's Griffin. It doesn't... I don't miss the fact that I am home listening to your words and listening to you read words from a book which... Hits me in two ways. It's enlivening my day because the words have gone beyond what simply words and brought something home to my heart. And at the other end, I also feel the other end of the stick that there's something missing. Because I am on Zoom. And would I really... remember and come back to that sense of enlightenment if I didn't have the experience of being there for months and, you know, knowing what is communicated maybe not just in the words themselves.

[66:07]

I'm always interested in what makes something alive or what makes something dead and Zoom is just bringing that home right now. When you turn your head to the left, you are a silver moon. And when you turn your head to the right, especially online, you're the dark side of the moon. So could you say a word maybe about what we need to bring our practice to life when the circumstance gives us no choice? but to communicate by Zoom. Thank you. Thank you for your words and your question. It makes me a little sad that you're not in the room, but you are.

[67:08]

Your voice is. It's what we've got. It's what's happening. Sometimes you have choices and sometimes you don't. There were times in my life when the only ideas that were available were in books. They weren't in the environment that I lived in. They weren't a part of my community. But I had the books. I think Zoom is a bittersweet dilemma.

[68:08]

It allows you to be in this room with us and to make your question. And it also makes me aware that you're not physically in this room, and I can't give you a hug. I don't know what to do about that. It's just the way it is. And I'd say continue doing what you're doing, like what you're doing this morning. Thank you. Other questions? A little pocket of questions right here. Hey, hey. Hi. Thank you for... Loved having you sit there. Thank you for your talk. I think it was very insightful, and I especially liked when you were talking about the conversation between books and the silence that became present as they were coming off of the shelves.

[69:19]

I spent some time at Tassajara and saw the sort of energy that was there in that library and was able to spend some time there. And I think, I guess I just wanted to ask you, how can you cultivate that sort of sense of magic with these, you know, inanimate objects, but also that have so much life because people have put their, you know, life essence in writing, some of these, you know, transcripts or recording other people's words over hundreds, thousands of years. Yeah, I guess you can see that with Dogen and Suzuki Roshi. So I thought that was a very interesting... The way you put that really struck me about the silence of them leaving the shelves. Did you ask me a question? I guess the question is... what is the feeling related to that conversation between the books?

[70:25]

Well, we don't know what they're saying. Just like we don't know what fish say, we don't know what birds say. I don't know what they're saying. I can say that I miss hearing them, but I don't exactly know what they're saying. I don't know if that's helpful. But I think that what happened in the library was not so much like, oh, like there was some articulation. It was more a sensibility or an absence. So if you really want to sleep well, sleep in a room full of books. I highly recommend it. I'm moving to a place where I have two rooms to live in. One is called a bedroom, and I said, it's so big, I don't need a bedroom like this. So I decided to make one room quiet and the other one active.

[71:33]

And the quiet room has my books and my bed. Thank you for your question. Hey, hey, you had another question? I do, yes. Yes. He asked me one yesterday. I'm just curious, back to her question on the idea of wasting time. Do you feel that the, I guess, sort of the ultimate point of that idea is that even if you tried to waste time, you couldn't in an ultimate sense, you know? Because no matter, you know, what you do, no matter if you're just, I don't know, on your phone while your toast is cooking, you know, you really aren't, you're still here now, you know.

[72:36]

And so no matter how hard you try and waste time, it's not like wasted, you know. I guess what I'm trying to say is, do you feel like, Like one point of the Dharma is to realize that even when you feel like what you're doing is, I don't know, wrong or, you know, instead of wasting time, you should do something with it. It's more like accepting that what you're doing has value, even if you don't think it does, you know? Do you kind of get what I'm saying? I'm singing along with you. Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to discern your melody. So, yeah, I guess, like, is that the ultimate point of that idea that no matter what you think, time can't be wasted?

[73:40]

I think it can be. Most definitely. And don't do it. LAUGHTER We can talk more about it tomorrow. Sounds good. Thank you for your talk. My question is around... translation and what might be the difficulty of translation and both from one language to another from one time to another and for example and here's how I'm thinking about it right now as I'm reading currently reading a Dharma book Transmission of Light and I'm reading each story again and again and again because I'm having you know for a week maybe one story repeated each day because I don't fully understand it and then sometimes I'll feel like I get some kind of understanding that is not necessarily cognitive. And then I ask myself, yes, but is this understanding I feel like I'm receiving actually in alignment through the translation process with what the author may have been wanting to transmit?

[74:54]

And that raises a question for me around trusting my own understanding. Great question, because... translation, you know, we have the original, and then we have the translator, and then we have the reader. So by the time we get to it, we're third generation. And I'm really interested in translations, and generally speaking, I'll encourage somebody comes to the library and they want to read something, I'll say you should read at least two or three translations of that to compare it. In terms of are you getting it, or is it accurate, or is it the right way? Throw those out the window. That's not what's important. What's important is what's resonating, what's calling you out, what's making you think. Like when I said, it's ability to unsettle, prodding us to search.

[76:02]

So that said, I mean, I have certain translators, like Red Pine, he and I had this long conversation. I said, oh, you're a writer. He says, no, I'm a translator. I said, no, you're a writer. He said, no, I'm a translator. I don't write. So translators have their own little gig as well, and they are very vehement that they don't write the Dharma. They facilitate it for us to read. So sometimes I do feel I have certain... translators that I prefer, Stephen Hine being one. And the reason I call out Stephen is because he is so devoted to making this work available. I mean, he comes out with a book almost once a year. And he loves digging into what isn't available and making it available to the public for the people who want to read that stuff. And I like his language.

[77:05]

But that's a preference that doesn't make it right or that his translation is closer to the bone. So I'd say, you know, like how you pick font to write with, right? You've all thought about what it looks like, what kind of resonates for you, how it looks on the page. Is it pleasurable to read? Is it legible? I feel the same way about translators. Hope that's helpful. Use universe, as Tom would say. So that does bring us to time. We do have one more question. Yes, of course. Thanks, Kate. And thank you, Marsha, so much for your talk. I just want to acknowledge the way you have cared for the library and the books in it over so many years.

[78:10]

I don't think everybody here knows how much you have encouraged people to come, not only to use the library, but... to volunteer in the library and I'm very moved by the way you're putting the books away with such care. And I was thinking of Ruth Ozeki's latest book, The Book of Form and Emptiness, which takes place in a library and thinking about how libraries are sanctuaries, really. Sleeping in a library, you feel safe. People coming into libraries for safety as well as for... the knowledge that they can gain. And I appreciated your bringing up the closeness of the libraries in all three centers to the Zendo. So I don't have a question. I just have great appreciation for your talk and for the spirit with which you're putting these books away.

[79:12]

And I hope you'll have a lot of help this afternoon. But just thank you so much for honoring the library, the books. And the way the books have been such a part of your life and your offerings. Thank you, Tova. That's such a sweet comment. Back to you. There's a lot of history in this building about taking care of things. And how we do it. How we don't waste time when we do it. And... picking something to take care of. So, thanks, Toa. Thank you all. I think we're done, right? Okay. Okay. May our intention be to extend to every meaning and bliss.

[80:15]

There is the truth from everything about the world. We have a place to pray. Anything inside us is not reckless. I have a place to save them. The limitations are being exhaustible. I have a place to let them. I have a place to save them. I have a place to save them. God bless you. God bless you. God bless you. Thank you all so much for being here.

[83:07]

Just a few announcements. Please join us for our daily practice schedule. We have meditation in the mornings and in the evenings. You can see our schedule on the website, but you can join for Zazan and service and breakfast in the mornings. We would love to see you around. If you are new to meditation, Saturdays before the Dharma talk at 8.40am there's a zazen instruction right here in this room most Saturdays you can just check the website to confirm and then after the Dharma talk is a zendo forms instruction to learn about the zendo and some of the instruments down there and the forms for moving through that space and today I believe it's Eli who is leading the zendoform, so you can find Eli right after this talk in the hallway by the stairs and five minutes after a short bio break.

[84:15]

Meet Eli for that. We have... Our next half-to-beginner sitting is tomorrow. if you're not joining for that it's too late to sign up but you can join next month October 22nd and next Saturday September 16th is a one day sitting it's a full day of meditation you can still sign up for that you can register by this Tuesday and join us for a full a full day Coming up on Wednesday evening, Roger Hillier is giving that Wednesday night Dharma talk, and next Saturday it will be the one-day sitting, so we will have a Dharma talk. It will be open to the public, and Michael McCord will be giving the talk.

[85:19]

However, there will be no Q&A and no tea and cookies because we're within that container of full day of practice. I want to mention an event that is happening, a film screening and a conversation with the filmmaker. It's called Carving the Divine, Buddhist Sculptors of Japan. I watched the trailer. It looks incredible. It'll be happening on September 23rd in the evening at 7 p.m. Right here in the temple, there'll be a screening of the film and then a conversation after with the filmmaker. It's not too late to sign up for our fall practice period. We'll begin in October. It'll be a little more than two months of practice and study. Ryushin Paul Heller will be leading that practice period on the Genjo Koan and the six paramitas.

[86:23]

And you can sign up to participate as a resident or... as a commuter or online let's see a lot's happening today this is the ongoing book and library project which will be continuing in the afternoon we have a public lunch that's offered today so you're all invited to stay I think lunch will be a little earlier it'll be at 11.50 you'll hear the bell And that's by donation. Food will be in the kitchen. You're welcome to stay for that. Following lunch at 12.30 will be a Zen iconography tour. Jeffrey Snyder will be leading a tour through the building to discuss the various statues and artwork and things that exist with us in this space.

[87:26]

And... one last announcement somewhere in here we have an event in October on October 14th Saturday we have members and volunteers appreciation day so all the folks who are cooking lunch for today or who are or on the Dwan Brio and ringing the bells, or who support the Zen Center in all the many ways that you do. On the 14th of October, we'd like to celebrate you and appreciate the work that you're doing. And you can register for that and let us know that you're coming, and more information online. So at this point, is there an announcement from the Urban Gate Sangha today, perhaps?

[88:29]

A little word. Thank you. I wanted to say something related to Marcia's talk about time and wasting or keeping or being in it. And the grandfather clock answered one of the points about that is if you are part of the European Gate Sangha, the because often that happens on Saturday that doesn't happen on weekends, we're timekeepers for that. And if you want to join and become part of the DoHongria, you get to learn how to be timekeepers for the events that happen on Saturday. And you can talk to Tim, who's sitting there, or Peter, who's sitting by the door. Where's your hand? Peter? Or me about the work that we do later, if you want, and also join an email group list. Anything else? There should be sign-up. You do have a sign-up sheet even. Out in the hallway. Out in the hallway. Thank you so much to the Urban Gate Sanger for holding the space for us on Saturdays.

[89:38]

And thank you all for being here. There are tea and cookies currently on offer in the courtyard. As you depart, please return the cushions to the shelves. Chairs can go back to the dining room and do take a copy of that book list that Martian mentioned on your way out the door. Thank you.

[90:00]

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