This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Now we're in the middle of Buddha becoming the way, Sashim. Buddha manifesting the way, says she. In the history of the Zen family, there once was a woman named Liu Tiemo.

[01:23]

And she was known by, she was called Iron Grinder or Iron Grindstone. Iron grinder Lu. Iron grindstone Lu. Because she was able to grind Zen masters into little pieces. And they grinded back. Her style was described as precipitously awesome and dangerous. I haven't heard people calling her nice.

[02:39]

But I think the understanding is she was a great, compassionate being who helped many Zen masters by being their good, intense friend. I had a long relationship with a dude named Guishan Lingyu. Guishan Lingyu. Very pivotal bodhisattva. Guishan was the teacher of Mo Shan.

[03:45]

No, no. Tie Mo, Iron Grinder. He was her teacher. And he was also the teacher of Yang Shan, who they, his nickname was Little Shakyamuni. So he had Iron Grinder and Little Shakyamuni were his students. And After Iron Grinder received entrustment of the teaching, of the transmission of the Dharma officially, she didn't go far away from her teacher, just a few miles. She set up shop just a few miles away so she could easily visit him. And she did. She'd visit him occasionally. And so we have a story of one of her visits to her teacher, presumably a while after she became entrusted with the Dharma.

[05:05]

as part of our historic 100th practice period, telling lots of stories. So today I tell the story of Iron Grinder Liu and Guishan, and I also mention that in our transmission process, In this particular lineage, in our transmission now, at this point in history, when we entrust someone with the Dharma, we reenact, as best we can, in English here, an interaction that occurred in China between Tian Tong, no, yeah, Tian Tong, Ru Jing and Eihei Dogen.

[06:13]

They met in China. Dogen, coming from Japan, could speak a little Chinese and read Chinese quite well. And he met this Chinese teacher. And when they met, Dogen took off his hat, offered incense and bowed Tiantong Rujing and faced him and Tiantong Rujing said the Dharma gate of face-to-face transmission Buddha to Buddha ancestor to ancestor is now fully realized Now, in the centuries since that time with Dogen, since Dogen's time till now, we still reenact that scene.

[07:24]

The present-day teacher plays the role like Ru Jing, and the present-day successor plays the role like Dogen. And the teacher says that to the student. So I've said that eight times to eight women. So I can't, unfortunately, I can't say eight million times. Just eight. I said it to Sobun Catherine Thanis, Abbot Catherine Thanis, I said it to her. I said it to Abbas Ajan Jiko Linda Cutts.

[08:37]

I said it to Abbas Furiu Nancy Schrader. I said it to Maya Winder. I said it to Abiding Teacher, Leslie James. I said it to Abbas Setsuvan Galen Godwin. I said it to Abbas Kiku. Christina Lenhair. I said it to Susan O'Connell. I've been practicing with Abbas Linda Ruth Cutts for 52 years.

[09:49]

practicing with Leslie for about 45. Now, I don't call Leslie Iron Grinder James. I don't. I don't. But she's had her moments. There was a time when she... I don't know what the word is. You can ask her. She kind of pecked at me. Kind of like... Or snapped at me. now and then. We almost fought.

[10:57]

Or we almost wanted to fight. But I never had any hard feelings, more like, what's that about? I don't know if she ever had any hard feelings. But anyway, it wasn't always sweet. We had a tea teacher at Greenville, she named Nakamura Sensei. And... I think she had her sweet moments, but she was not exactly known to us for being sweet.

[11:58]

She was kind of fierce. Fierce tea teacher. And she had a tea teacher in Japan. Nakamura sensei was first generation tea teacher, I think. And she said, in order to be a really a master tea teacher, you have to be at least three generations. You have to grow up with your grandparents being teachers and your parents being teachers in order to be really into it. She was only first generation, but she had a teacher who was multiple generations in the tea teaching lineage.

[13:09]

And that woman married a Zen scholar named Yanagida Cezan. So Yanagida Cezan, the great Zen scholar, and Yanagida Sensei, the tea teacher. And I was in Japan once with my wife, and I was having wonderful meetings with Yanagida Seizan, the scholar, and she went to tea class with the tea teacher. And afterwards, I said, was it nice? And she said, nice isn't the word. LAUGHTER I don't remember what she said, but nice wasn't the words. Maybe awesome, maybe profound, maybe astounding, this tea teacher.

[14:14]

I don't know if Roberta... aspires to be like Iron Grinder Lou? I don't know if Sonia does. Sometimes I think they do. Keep at it. Good luck. That's a tough assignment. We could work this up into something here, but for now... I'll go back to Iron Mind, Iron Grinder Lou, and her relationship with her teacher over many years. And one day...

[15:31]

She went to visit her teacher and... Oh, by the way, teacher Guishan referred to himself as a water buffalo. He said, you know, I'm a water buffalo and after I die, I will be a water buffalo. And I will be living down... the mountain from this monastery in the village there, and it will be written on the flanks of that water buffalo. It will be written, Guishan Lingyu, and people will be discussing whether this is the water buffalo or this is the monk. So he called himself a water buffalo, and the Chinese, they have a character for male water buffalo, and they also have a character for female water buffalo.

[16:41]

They have characters for male phoenixes and female phoenixes. So he called himself a water buffalo using the male version of water buffalo, and he called Iron Grinder Lou. the female word for water buffalo. Okay? So here she comes to visit her teacher, an old friend, and after she enters his place, he says, Old cow, it's you. And she says to him, Tomorrow, they're going to have a great feast on Taishan. Now, Taishan is one of the great five sacred mountains in China, and Taishan is a month-long walk or more, maybe two months' walk from where Guishan is.

[17:52]

Long walk, 600 miles away in the north of China. So she says, Tomorrow, they're going to have a great feast at Taishan. Will you be going, teacher? And Guishan relaxes and reclines and spreads out on the ground. And she leaves. This is one day in their long relationship. And the Zen poets celebrate this meeting. One poem goes like... Once she rode an iron horse into a double-walled...

[19:03]

fortress now an imperial edict announces a report that the six warring states are finally at peace still she holds her golden whip and questions the messenger. In the depths of the night, who will come along on the walk to the royal road? Once, she rode an iron horse into the double-walled fortress.

[20:21]

Now, there is an edict coming down reporting that the six warring states are finally at peace. Still, she holds her golden whisk or whip, I should say, her golden whip, and questions the messenger. Will you be going tomorrow, teacher? In the depths of the night, who will walk along? The royal. And then another Zen poet says basically the same thing. After success in a hundred battles accomplished.

[21:30]

Growing old in great peace. Serene and gentle. Who wants the trouble to be a contender? The jade whip and the golden horse are idle all day. The bright moon and the pure wind enrich a whole lifetime. This is the way two old Zen masters hang out.

[22:40]

In the early days of this monastery, I was here and sometimes had a hard time and sometimes not. Now, in these days, I sometimes have a hard time and sometimes not. So young people can have a hard time, and of course old people can too. Suzuki Rishi didn't live so long, but when he was about 65 he said, every day when I get up now I feel sick. So there is this thing called old age sickness and death.

[24:57]

So old people too have a hard time, but these old people also were serene and peaceful. For old people, it's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. But by this face-to-face transmission, they can be serene and at peace with the heat and the cold. The pure wind of reality blows through them all day long and they can see it and it blows through the young people too but many old people cannot see it and many young people cannot see it so we continue to practice face to face

[26:21]

transmission until we can see it and share it and transmit it. Men and men, women and women, men and women. The zazen of this school which you are devoted to for the ancestors, is nothing but giving a face and receiving a face. It is nothing but entrusting and receiving the treasure house of true Dharma eyes, the subtle mind of Nirvana. It's blowing in all directions

[27:23]

using us to make beautiful music. Oftentimes I hear from people in this valley that they're listening to the sound of the stream. And sometimes, although I don't hear it so often, they listen to the sound of the wind. in the sound of the wind and in the sound of the stream there's another sound the sound of the unique breeze of reality it cannot be heard with the ordinary ear

[28:55]

but it can be heard while we're listening with the ordinary ear. It's calling to us to listen to the true Dharma. Bodhisattva Mahasattvas.

[31:34]

Oh, aspiring Bodhisattvas, is there anything you wish to express? Thinking is not enough.

[32:39]

Not thinking is not enough. Reality is walking around me many more times than three asking me to say something. I'm squished. Are you squashed? What's squashed? Squished, squashed. Squish, squash? Yeah. Squish, squash, I was taking a bath. You know that one? In the middle of squish and squash. You're between squish and squash? Squish and squash, yeah. Okay. I guess I want you to help me right now. Do it. You want me to help you right now? When you say that, please remember the teaching that that wish, when it's expressed, arises at the same time as the response.

[33:49]

Okay? Say it again and pay attention. What does he mean? What's he doing when he's laying down? Oh, no, no, do that question again. Say it. I want you to help me say it. And watch, now watch when you say it. Watch the response when you say it. I want Tenshin Roshi to help me right now. Did you see the response? Kind of. Well, it's invisible because it's right there with you saying you want that. That's the helpful response. It's right there. Incoherently, though. I can't take incoherently. I can't take incoherently. Help me with some coherence, and I'll go back to my seat. Go back to your seat.

[35:04]

Ha ha ha. I have a question for your attention, Roshi. Can you describe enlightenment and what it's like to live every day in that way? That's what enlightenment is. What? It's able to live in that way every day. Could you describe it? It's the coolest thing.

[36:11]

Oh, yeah? LAUGHTER Can't wait. And it is nothing in and of itself. It is nothing by itself. How is your perception different as you progress? As you progress? Yeah. In enlightenment, there's no progression. There's just going beyond. It's not progressing, it's just leaping free of this wonderful, coolest situation. But it's nothing in and of itself. That's the description I'm giving you now. It's nothing by itself. But that's the coolest.

[37:12]

Isn't that the coolest? Yeah. It's unsurpassable. Did you come from the North? Yesterday...

[38:34]

if you had invited us to come forward, I was going to bring Iron Grinder Lou into the room. And now I'm glad I waited because you added some poetry. And I've been contemplating this exchange for a couple, three weeks. And I have an understanding or I had some understanding that came to me, and I'd like to check it out with you. Yesterday, we were also talking about coherent and incoherent, so I made something coherent out of this story, and I'm a little stuck there. So Lou came to visit Guishon, and as the story's asked the question, and Guishon laid down. my commentary on that as her teacher is, Lou, what are you doing talking about tomorrow?

[39:44]

And Iron Grinder Lou left. And as I was thinking about the story, I thought about this song that you sometimes sing, and I don't quite know all the words to it, but skies are blue, flowers are blooming, lovers holding hands, people saying, how do you do? What they're really saying is, I love you. And I thought maybe Lou was taking a walk and stopped by to say hello and go along. So I'm kind of at peace with that story I have. But could you turn it for me? Could you say you're at peace? I think that's a nice... I thought you said you were stuck. Yeah, I'm peacefully stuck right there. Right there.

[40:47]

But there must be some other turns. Well, of course, that's true. Could you volley one? Are you ready? I think so. Are you ready to leap? Is that no leaping? No. Are you ready to leap? No. Are you stuck? Seems. Are you saying you're stuck and you do not want to take a step off this 100-foot stuck pole? You don't want to step off it? I'm stuck in the same place that I felt the talk yesterday got stuck in the light or no light in the room.

[42:10]

And It seems like a view. I would challenge that view when I'm trying to challenge my view. Is this your stepping off the pole? Approaching the precipice. Are you stepping off? You have been turned.

[43:49]

I hope to give you the same gift. Any time. Thank you. You're welcome. Roshi.

[44:55]

So as you know, practice period's almost over. And then after that, not that long after that, I'm going to get married. And I want you to tell me about face-to-face transmission and love. The special kind of love. Not just like, hey, I love you, Roshi. What should I do? in your special case it's you you special you being devoted to her special her That's the special thing, that your work is to be devoted to her.

[46:02]

Shouldn't we all be devoted to each other all the time? Yes. So nothing changes? She's changing all the time. Do I change with her? You do. But that practice is constant. Like all practice? like all practice. You just don't hear much in the old story about romantic love. It just doesn't come up very often. What I'm talking about, I didn't think was very romantic. It's a good practice for romantic people, but it's also a practice for people who aren't romantic. It's a practice when there's romance and when there's not. Romance is not constant. But this practice is not born and does not die.

[47:10]

But, you know, you don't have to do this practice until you've been married for 15 years. You can loaf for 15 years. And, you know, have a really hard time. But when you start this practice, it gets really, it's not difficult anymore. It's difficult to be devoted all the time, but it makes everything else no problems. That's the only problem, is to remember to do that. And if you do, there's going to be no other problems. Like, for example, you won't be worried about romance. and you won't be worried about whether she's being devoted to you. You won't have problems like that. You only have the problem of being devoted. It's so great. Do you enjoy being married? It's great. I enjoy being devoted. And as many of you know, after I'd been married for about 15 years, my wife told me about that practice.

[48:42]

She said, you should be uxorious. Which, uxor is, I think, a Latin word for wife. Yeah. She said, you should be uxorious. And she explained to me what it was, and I said, okay. I'll make sure to tell my fiance's story. And we were just recently talking about that, and she said, notice that there's no word for being devoted to the husband. Noted. Because it's assumed that they're going to be. But the husbands don't. It's not assumed that they will be. So we have to have a special word for it to grind that into them. Grind it in. The Roman Empire was not, even though uxor is a Roman word, a Latin word, the Roman men were not well known for their devotion to their wives.

[50:01]

So they had to make a special word. So please, descendant of the Romans, do that practice. Oh, I can't imagine.

[51:14]

What do I want to say now? You have spoken. That much? Yes. I want to say, I remember when you told us that you were going to be devoted to your wife, and I want to say how grateful I am for your wife. I think she's made life for all of us so much better. LAUGHTER I want to say that when you used to come and lead practice periods, there were people who loved what was happening and there were people who were very triggered and hated what was happening. And this practice period, which I haven't been here for much of, but I do talk to people when I come, and I haven't heard from anyone that they are triggered, that they're upset.

[52:18]

There may be people here who haven't told me about it, but I've heard a lot of appreciation for your teaching. And I guess I wonder, do you, well, think you're different but I don't know how that you are part of that happening differently and I I know that people project on the teacher positive and negative and I'm wondering how I'm mostly I don't get so much positive so much negative projection I do get a little bit But I'm wondering how if you have a way that you think worked, and it's not just teachers, it's anyone really with, well, it's probably anyone, but it's definitely anyone with any kind of power. So I'm wondering if you have a way that you learn to deal with people's negative projections that you think works.

[53:28]

Just now I heard you ask something like, do you have a way to work with negative projections that works? But I just thought I might just mention that I thought you were going to ask me why there might be less of that going on in this practice period. That too. Yeah. So it may not be that there's less negative projection. It may be that there's still that going on, but that people are working on it themselves. So that may be part of what's going on, is that people are doing their own work rather than letting negative projection distract them from their work. They're noticing, oh, this is my work. This is not about him. this is my work, that's a possibility that's still going on, but that people are more mature and saying, oh, I have something to work on here.

[55:00]

But when the negative projections are there and that they're being shared with me, I guess the main way, the way I start is by clearly observing it. just say, oh, there seems to be, this person seems to be trying to avoid me. Probably because they're either, you know, one of those extremes that they just can't face the meeting. So, I mostly, not seemingly, I just try to clearly observe, not, you know, not try to control it. not even try to find out what it is, just clearly observe it. I think that works really well. And then people work through it. I might have said, if someone asked me, how did the teaching go, one of the comments I might have made was, there was almost no boycott of the teaching going on.

[56:15]

Sometimes in the past, people were boycotting the teaching. So that didn't seem to be happening. Also, I think, yeah, there was also, I don't know exactly more or less, but I think there have been expressions of people coming up. Well, like just now, Sam said, you know, I don't want incoherence. No. People are expressing their resistance. Rather than just resisting, they're aware of it and putting it out in the open. So that's, I don't know if that's different, but that's healthy. It's different than blinding you. Yeah. It's different than saying that because of the way I am, they're resisting. They're able to see more that the resistance is something that they're working with. publicly and privately, there seems to be awareness and kindness towards the resistance.

[57:24]

And I, myself, I think am able to be quite patient and generous. I can welcome resistance. I think welcoming resistance, which is one of the ways... There's negative projection and there's resistance to negative projection. So if I can... welcome the resistance, that seems to work really well. I might not say anything, I just, in my heart, I'm welcoming. And not as resistant. Resistant. You know, I could say not, but I could just say If I am resistant, I welcome my own resistance. So, maybe I resist less, but what I think I do more is I'm more noticing it and welcoming it.

[58:28]

Welcome, welcome, welcome. I'm more on the generosity practice in relationship to the resistance. And that works. I mean, it's a miracle. It's a miracle that we have such a practice and it works in miraculous ways. And I want to say that I'm so grateful for your teaching and your friendship and all these miraculous years. Yeah. I'm so grateful for you and your friendship all these years. It's an amazing gift to us. Everyone has such a friendship. Yeah. Many friendships. Yeah, right. Thank you. May I ask one more question?

[59:52]

Was the time that you were talking about that we were fighting, the time in that meeting in the guesthouse? Pardon? About the personnel policy? It wasn't just one time. I'm sure there wasn't. I'm wondering which time you were thinking about. There were quite a few. But I'm not saying we were fighting. It was more like... It was more like... It was kind of like we were having a meeting and then suddenly Leslie's like... It was a little bit like suddenly a little fire comes out of Leslie. Just like... It's a different thing. Now we're getting into it. Just like that. You disagree with me. You question me. And sometimes there's a little something in it. A little... energy in it. But there's definitely like disagreeing from, you know, early days and you get my interest like, hmm, what's that?

[61:02]

Huh. It's like, you know, almost not really fighting, more like... Jousting. Jousting or... It's more like... poking or stimulating. Getting stimulating attention. Not for this side. This side maybe takes a little extra energy just to speak up and disagree. And the fact that you have to sort of overcome a little bit of a threshold that may put a little extra spice into it for me. But I just want to say that one of the most important events or things in our relationship for me was your invitation to do that. To say, I wonder, what are you thinking?

[62:06]

What are you trying to say there? Very important. Welcome. Thank you. Before I say anything, I always get a little nervous to get here. I mean, I like coming here, but my hands get like sweaty and always feel a little bit like a challenge.

[63:10]

I really appreciated yesterday when you were talking about how things also show something to us, how we are relating. When you're touching something, something is touching you. Okay. And I've been noticing how, for example, how I relate to my burioki cloths and how it's talking to me, speaking to me. Somehow my wrapping cloth is a little small and I was, I think, tying it too tight. It was kind of getting kind of round instead of being square. And I just noticed that instead of saying, oh, my Uryoki cloth is rounded, I said, oh, what's going on here?

[64:14]

And I started doing, not tied that so much. Then it was more square. And I really felt that it was, it was talking to me. So, and also, for example, when I'm painting, like, you can see when you're trying to control, when you're kind of forced with things. And then it kind of shows you. So, So it seems that even like things have kind of a face-to-face to us. Do you think so? Yes, I agree with you. And then when we are in relationship with people... When we put energy in, there's a response.

[65:22]

But if we put energy in a controlling way, trying to control, we can kind of like... It isn't really we stifle the response, but we kind of stifle our awareness of the response. Kind of suppress. If you put energy into your ordeoki, ordeoki will give you energy back. But if your energy takes the form of disrespect or trying to control the ordeoki, that way of that kind of application of energy can obscure your awareness of the response. Like I said, if you take your pulse and you press too hard, you don't feel the pulse. It's still coming back to you. If you're really trying to get the pulse rather than bringing your energy to meet the pulse, then the pulse will talk to you.

[66:32]

Oh, you want to talk to me? Okay. But if you're trying to get the pulse rather than give your hand to the pulse, then you maybe miss the thing you're looking for because you're trying to get it. But also, I don't know, I feel that to get to this point and you can really... You just give your energy and receive this energy. Sometimes you don't know exactly if you're trying to control or not. That's right. There's a lot of trial and error. Trial and error. Also, not with objects, but with people, it's also a challenge. Because then it's even more dynamic. much like is about trying not trying to control but like communicating and being in relationship with

[67:36]

Thank you. Really? I don't know. Do I know? If you do, would you please tell me? You won't? Okay. That's great. Don't tell me.

[69:28]

How do you laugh? Not so long ago we chanted that we vowed to hear the true... Not so long ago we chanted that we vowed to hear the true Dharma and that on hearing it, no doubt will arise in us, nor will we lack in faith.

[70:35]

However, I'm starting to doubt faith and have faith in doubt. Can you please help me understand this vow? Well, as you probably know, there's a, what's the word, a lively tradition in what's often called the Zen school of great doubt. But these people who practice it have a lot of confidence, a lot of faith in this type of doubt. So it's actually a practice of doubting compounded things and learning how to see that various understandings and practices are actually compounded karmic consciousness.

[71:39]

And then in karmic consciousness there's all these understandings that arise and great doubt is like to question all of them. do not be fooled by anything that appears and learn how to spot karmic consciousness in the guise of some understanding of Zen or even in the guise of very good understanding of Zen or the best understanding, all these things that can appear in consciousness. Some things look really terrible, but we're talking about particularly things that look like some kind of understanding. That's the kind of doubt which is a lot of Zen teachers have a lot of faith in that doubt. The other kind of doubt is to doubt, for example, to doubt that things are calling to you for compassion.

[72:49]

that kind of doubt. To doubt that things are calling to you for skillful response. To doubt that you actually want beings to listen to you with compassion. To doubt that. If when you hear the True Dharma, you'll have no doubt about that. Before you hear the True Dharma, you actually might have some doubt that listening to people with... ears of compassion and looking at people with eyes, you might have some doubt about that. And because of some doubt, you might actually get distracted from it. When you hear the true dharma, then the nice thing about hearing it is you're no longer distracted from things which you, even that you think are pretty good, that you have some confidence in. So your confidence is increased to full size or fullness when you hear the true dharma. But feeling doubt about anything, do you feel doubt that it would be good to be kind to the doubt?

[74:00]

I think I trust that it's good to be kind to the doubt. Yeah. But I doubt that I have enough doubt. Yeah, I think that's existential doubt. you might not have enough doubt. You might need some more. That's perfect. But that's not undermining to have that kind of doubt. Like, I doubt that I have enough doubt is not a corrosive doubt. It's not an undermining doubt. It's more like an openness to that possibility. And I also doubt that I have enough and I doubt that I don't have too much. In other words, I'm open to maybe I have too much doubt. That would go with, I'm open to that I don't have enough, and I'm also open that I might have too much.

[75:13]

When things appear in our mind, it's good, have doubt about their validity. That's good. Doubt in the sense of asking a question like, is this thing, is there any evidence that this is a reliable idea that just popped in my mind? Like, you know, when I was a kid, I had a very narrow view of Italians. You know? I knew almost no Italians, but I knew about the gangsters in the movies, and I knew about Italian restaurants. I knew a little bit about the Renaissance, but when I thought of Italians, I didn't think Renaissance. So this idea of Italians would come in my mind, and then when I actually looked at it and saw how

[76:20]

narrower it was, I was really embarrassed. But for quite a while, I let that idea of Italians come into my mind and just said, okay, Italians, that's not enough doubt. Like, this is your idea of Italians, okay? Well, is there any evidence that Italians are like that? I didn't ask. And if I had asked, the answer would have come, Well, yeah, the Renaissance. You know? Yeah. Italian fashion. Yeah. Italian cooking in Italy. You know? And so on. Maseratis. Ferraris. You know? If you actually look at your idea, so being critical of the things in our mind is kind of doubt. And it's good. and we may not have enough of it. Because doubting takes energy.

[77:25]

It's easier just to say, okay, here's the idea, here's the story, okay. The story comes from our body and our unconscious cognitive feeding us these stories all day. Coherent stories about this life we have, which are easy, simplified versions of our life, and our unconscious is giving them to them all day long. In consciousness, we can doubt basically all of them, but it takes energy to doubt them and actually criticize them and ask questions about them. And we have limited energy. It's easy to make the stories. It takes a lot of energy to question them, to critique them, and even to stop the... kind of like laziness of approving them right away. So to say that you may not have enough doubt could also be said that you're not using your critical analytic function at an appropriate level.

[78:38]

You're underusing it. And again, be kind to yourself when you notice that and kind to other people when you notice they're not doing their job in that way. and then encourage yourself to make more effort in that way. Otherwise, these stories get up, get approved, and then it's not good. Doubting the stories. Doubting? In your own mind. What about doubting the feeling of trust or of faith? The feeling of trust that's appearing in your mind is a story. It's a coherent version. Your faith is... a coherent thing, but your faith is more than this little coherence that your mind has made. Out of your faith is bigger than just this little package. So doubting that this actually is your faith, that also is being somewhat critical and analyzing and checking out whether this actually is a reliable version of your faith.

[79:50]

If all things are calling for compassion, that's a story about faith that I don't doubt. If all things are calling for compassion, that should be question two. Yes, question it. The truth doesn't mind being questioned. And what about this vow then that no doubt will arise? No doubt will arise in all the late life we see. I think it could mean that... If a doubt arises, you will respond to it by listening to it with compassion.

[81:06]

So, in that sense, when you respond to it that way, the doubt has not really, there was no function of the doubt. It didn't stop you from practicing what you believe in when a doubt appears. So, it doesn't mean that doubts are eliminated. It just means that no doubts will arise. And it also means no doubts will cease. Because hearing the true dharma, you see that doubts do not arise or cease. Doubts won't be like that anymore for you. There'll be doubt, but it'll be an unarisen, unceasing doubt. it'll be a doubt that's no doubt. But it doesn't mean that the appearance of things won't be there anymore.

[82:09]

It just means that you will understand, because you hear that your dharma, you'll understand that this doubt is no doubt, and this doubt doesn't arise and doesn't cease. Seeing the arising of anything and believing it is a worldly affair. When you hit your dharma, you relinquish the worldly affair of believing the things that are appearing in your consciousness. Seeing the dharma, you see this thing is an unarisen dharma. This dharma did not arise and does not cease. This dharma is not this dharma. You see that. There's no arousing of doubt. I'm at risk of believing that, so I'm going to... You're at risk of believing that story?

[83:10]

I'm going to keep doubting. Doubt that story. Yeah. Yeah, good. Good. I do have a question, and it's preceded by two events.

[84:41]

The first is my first rohatsu sashimi. It was the first time that I had come to California, and only a few hours before I got on the plane, my teacher at the time told me that she would be dying, and she understood what that meant. It was the first time that she'd been able to say that. And I fell into pieces on the airplane and tumbled into the Dokusan room. In California? At Citizen. Uh-huh. During that sashin, although I was a priest, I'd never seen so much fabric. And it became a sashin of putting on the Ocasea, taking off the Ocasea throughout the course of the day with so many others.

[85:47]

And strengthened by that Sashin, the language that came to me for a renewal of self-supporting by Taliban was that When I unfurled my zagu, it could roll through the villages and the cities and over the mountains and into the ocean, and I could return to take care. This time, my body is a giant rock slide. And the feeling is that being overtaken by a vow and the energy of it is a strengthening of intention coming from disassembly in the assembly.

[86:58]

I feel like I understand the phrase the stone woman gives birth at night means. And I'm hoping that you can help me unpack the meaning of formless intention. We speak of formless repentance. But there is such a thing as formless intention, and it's very strong. There are phrases that come to mind. But I feel that through your understanding, there's more to be said. And thank you for this monastery. It seems that you're aware of the great... What is it?

[88:24]

We say a field beyond form and emptiness for the robe. A more literal translation is a field of blessing that has no form. A formless field of blessing. So... In the middle of rock slides, you can use this robe. You can take care of this robe in the middle of the rock slide. You can take care of something that has no form because the form is constantly rolling down the hill. But yet you can take care of this form in the middle of that. So there's some practice you can do in the middle of, well, birth and death.

[89:26]

But the practice actually is you can't get a hold of it. You can't get a hold of what makes it possible for you to be able to take care of your robe in the middle of an avalanche. And yet you you see that you do take care of it, but you can't see how this can happen. And it couldn't happen without the robe for you to use to keep the practice going through the avalanche. And if you don't have the robe, then you can take care of that. So you're keeping this something that's ungraspable going by working with these forms. My strong experience here is that as much as there are the forms, there is this

[90:47]

And that the avalanche is the generative piece of it. feeling of being overtaken changes what agency and intention are in the taken care. And so the gathering comfort

[91:51]

a form has its life in the avalanche. Yeah, it has its life in the avalanche and in taking care of the form in the avalanche. there's a new agency that comes forth. We already have the agency of like folding a robe. I fold a robe. Humans fold robes. And then when you continue to try to fold the robe in the avalanche, another agency is revealed. So there's this take care of the robe. Yes, that's good. and then take care of the robe and avalanche.

[92:54]

That's not exactly better, it's just, now you're ready for avalanche. So you're taking care of the robe, now you're ready for us to have an avalanche around this? No comment. But anyway, here comes the avalanche, and there's continued attempt to take care of, for example, the robe. And at some point you realize that it's not just you that's taking care of the robe, And of course it's not you that's taking care of the avalanche. There's another agency that's not human, that's right there, that we discover. But if we just try to take care of the robe without the avalanche, we probably will not discover this other taking care. If our robe, if our taking care of the forms of practice, is done without getting challenged by avalanches, we just stay in the human control trip.

[93:58]

But with the attempt to take care of robes and schedules and people and bells and bodies, all this stuff, when we take care of it in an avalanche, we realize there's another type of activity which is not just human. which is always there. And now it's revealed. Through taking care of this limited thing in this dynamic world, we discover this true agency. And then we take care of the robe again in the next avalanche. Before the next person, I just want to say a little bit more about this, about this cloth, these robes.

[95:45]

And not too long ago, Green Gulch, once Carolyn was still at Green Gulch, it wasn't too long ago, so just maybe a year or two ago, I was talking about, I have various robes, people sew robes, like Abbas Galen Godwin sewed this robe and gave it to me. It's got one billion stitches in it. Anyway, I have many robes, which some other people will have soon, and my robes have various difficulty levels. And some robes, I have one robe that I almost never wear because it's too difficult. It just cannot be worn. on the body. You put it on the body, but it wants to go to the ground. Anyway, I have all these robes with different difficulties.

[96:47]

This robe is not super difficult, but it's difficult enough so that I sometimes feel like, you know, enough already. You know, I have more trouble than that. Yeah. So there is this thing of you're wearing clothes and while you're putting them on and wearing them and then trying to do bows and stand on your head and stuff like that, they go other places than your body. They go to the ground often. And then you have to pick them up and put them back on. So, you know, you bow, but then after you get up, you have to put your clothes back on. And so you might even think, it'd be nice to have a robe that didn't fall off every time you bow.

[97:51]

Or maybe I'll just let it fall off and not worry about it. And just accept that, you know. So, this is like human agency working with the robe. in an avalanche and can you like really be there and not wish that you didn't have robes that were an avalanche or you know be kind to that wish and just have yeah how wonderful that these robes are constantly testing me and in this way of working with something like this that's basically uncontrollable, we find this other agency which we are aspiring to realize. Gravity and avalanches.

[99:01]

But without gravity, you know, our feet couldn't be on the ground. Yeah. Without gravity, our feet would have trouble being on the ground. Unless we had Velcro shoes. Anyway, just an easy little gravity and it's always... It's always here. It's an omnipresent difficulty. Things will always shift because of gravity. That's just one small reason. Yeah, it's one small reason. Yes. Okay. Yes. Did you want to go to the bathroom? Master. Is that respectful to this monk?

[100:05]

Yep. Then I have a question for you. Okay. We meet. I'm inside you. You're inside me. I have a question about compassion. My stories about it are small, yet there's a vastness to Avalokiteshvara.

[101:19]

I don't know what to do. I am listening to I don't know what to do. I'm listening to I don't know what to do. And I'm not the only one who's listening to I don't know what to do. There? Pardon? Right there. It's hard to trust. Yeah. And Abhilakiteshvara listens to it's hard to trust.

[102:21]

Compassion for my love of coherence. That too. Mm-hmm. Compassion for our love of coherence. Patience with our generosity, with our love of coherence. Patience with our love of coherence. Patience with our love of coherence. Being careful with our love of coherence. And then we can have become with our love of coherence and do diligence with our love of coherence. And then we can understand our love of coherence as a dharmador. Roshi, these four great vows, to save all beings,

[103:38]

to end all delusions, to enter all dharma gates, to become the Buddha's way. I don't think these are separate. No. I think they're the same. Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. And this giving and receiving It's all the time. It's all the time. It's all the time. It's every experience. That's what it is. So, my understanding is you have invited me to pray, to remember, to practice.

[104:40]

I have invited you. I have prayed. I've invited you by praying. My prayer is an invitation. So I pray and I invite you to remember stillness. And in that stillness, you can listen to, for example, the need for coherence. receive. And I can receive. The stillness and silence is so that it's receptive. Receptive. But receptive means giving. I mean, there's no separation there. That's right. Receptive means giving. And giving means receiving.

[105:48]

You tell these stories about the transmission? May I offer an edited version? You're an edited version. I am an edited version. You tell this story about, you say, like, I'm going to tell this story. This is a story about that there are two beings. So that's a story. And in this story, I can't talk about it, but please remember the story arises out of stillness and silence. The story arises out of our stillness and silence as you speak the story. The story arises out of the Buddha ancestors, their stillness and silence as they meet.

[106:57]

And I'm going to edit that, okay? Please, I welcome. The story doesn't arise. It's living in the stillness. It doesn't arise. This story arises, and this story that arises doesn't arise. But it does live. in stillness. And in stillness, it doesn't arise or cease. It just lives there. Our actual life doesn't arise and cease. And that life is living in stillness. And in that stillness, these stories are living. And these stories are living, and these stories are about becoming free of being trapped in stories. They're stories about people who meet and become free of their stories. And they're living in stillness. And becoming free of our stories, one of the stories we become free of in this practice is the story of arising and ceasing.

[108:08]

Another story which is similar to the story of birth and death. We become free of these stories. And these stories are living in stillness. The story, all these stories are living in stillness where they're not arising and ceasing. The stories of arising and ceasing are not arising and ceasing. But there are stories of arising and ceasing. And there is also Jikido, living in stillness, not arising or ceasing. My ankle is just a story.

[109:21]

Your ankle is not just a story. But the story of your ankle is just a story. But your ankle's not just the story of your ankle. to share a story. Not really similar to the stories you're telling, but one that came up for me the other day when Eleanor shared.

[110:22]

But it's in my opinion that she was this long enough for doing the talk, so I didn't share it at that time. The story that I wanted to share, I heard from a book called Love's Manifesto. and it is about a old African woman during the end of apartheid. She was brought in front of a man in a court who had tortured and killed her husband and her son. She was half crippled and needed help coming into the courtroom by two other women. The judge asked her What do you have to say to this man? His name was Dr. Viverk. She paused and didn't say anything for a little bit. But when she spoke, she spoke true and strong.

[111:24]

She said, Dr. Viverk, I would like you to show me where you killed my son. For I have nothing left of him. And I would like to take a little dust from that face, for it will be the last thing I have of him. And then she said, Dr. Verwerk, I am an old crippled woman. I have lost everything. I have no power in this world. But in my heart, I have an ocean of love. And I want you to be my son. And come visit me in my hut. And it is said that when she said that, he fainted dead away. And the whole courtroom began singing Amazing Grace.

[112:32]

And I don't think I can describe the Bodhisattva path but I know it when I see it. Thank you for the story. do you aspire to assemble such an ocean of love?

[113:50]

Avalokiteshvara listens to the cries of the world and that listening assembles an ocean of love like that. For more information, visit SSCC.org and click Giving.

[114:22]

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