This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. I feel great sorrow and sadness about all the suffering in this world. especially now we're aware of the suffering in Northern California of many people being burned to death and and of course our air in a way it's very difficult for us but in a way we share through this air we share the suffering We're with the suffering.

[01:14]

And here in this temple, we are in the second half of a two-month training period. And one of the themes of this training period is great compassion. kinds of compassion and also in particular great compassion the compassion of the of the Bodhisattvas and the Buddhas can you hear me in the back yes So it is taught that Buddhas are born of bodhisattvas.

[02:29]

And bodhisattvas are born of compassion. The root condition for bodhisattvas is compassion. They're also born of the wish to realize true awakening for the welfare of the world. And they're also born of non-dual wisdom. So the assertion here is that the bodhisattvas' compassion, their highest compassion, their greatest compassion, is conversation.

[03:46]

bodhisattva's compassion in a way isn't their compassion it's it's a conversation which they live in they don't own they don't own the compassion they live in the compassion which is a conversation among all of us that's the bodhisattva's compassion it includes all of us and it includes our wish to protect all beings from harm it includes our wish to protect all beings from harm but it's not just my wish to protect beings or your wish to protect beings it's the conversation between you with your wishes and me

[04:54]

and my wishes. That's the great compassion of the bodhisattvas which gives rise to Buddhas. Before this training period started, I already introduced this idea that this compassion was conversation and our Our head student, Grace, and I looked up the etymology of the word conversation. Do you remember? And what do we find? The etymology of conversation is what? To dialogue in a way that you can change. And another etymology is... familiarity, intimacy.

[05:59]

Conversation is intimacy. Great compassion is intimacy. I cannot have great compassion by myself. You cannot have great compassion yourself. The intimacy of us is the great compassion of the bodhisattvas. That intimacy is the womb of the Buddhas. And that conversation, which is the path of peace, has no fixed form, just like a conversation has no fixed form. One of the scriptures which is very heartfelt in the Zen tradition is called the Diamond Cutter's Scripture.

[07:16]

Or, excuse me, the Diamond Cutter of Perfect Wisdom. Vajracetika Prajnaparamita Sutra. The Diamond Sutra, we say. It's part of the normal liturgy of Zen training temples in China and Japan and Korea. And here we've been chanting it at noon service. The Prajnaparamita Vajracetika Sutra, the Diamond Sutra. And it starts out by... One of the Buddha's students asking how should a bodhisattva stand? How should a bodhisattva progress on the path to Buddhahood?

[08:21]

And the Buddha says the bodhisattva should generate a thought like this. I'll simplify it for you. no matter what kind of living beings there are in this universe, and it goes through and lists them all, but I'm just going to say, no matter what kind of living beings, Republicans, Democrats, you get the idea? No matter what kind, no exceptions, all living beings, all living beings, I vow to lead them to peace and freedom. Complete, perfect peace and freedom. I vow to lead them there. This is the path to Buddhahood, this vow.

[09:25]

And then the Buddha says, and yet, when innumerable beings have been led, perfect peace and freedom no living being has been led to peace and freedom and why the Buddha says because if someone trying to practice this compassionate vow were to hold the idea of a being they would not be practicing the bodhisattva's great compassion. Because the bodhisattva's great compassion is not holding the idea of a being which I'm helping or who's helping me. The bodhisattva's great compassion, the bodhisattva's vow to carry all beings is a conversation.

[10:31]

And there's no beings held in it here or there or in between. So we generate this thought to take each and every being to complete peace without apprehending anything. We vow to enter the conversation. The conversation is what leads beings to freedom. I don't, by myself, lead you by yourself. You, by yourself, don't lead me by myself. We, together, in... dramatic conversation. Enter nirvana together. The classical image of Zen, which is an image of Zen, is an image of people in conversation.

[12:04]

And these conversations which have been transmitted to us, the words and the images that have been transmitted to us of the Zen ancestors in conversation, Of course, the words that we have now are not what happened then. But they give us a possibility to imagine a conversation. And then, after imagining it, to let go of the image and enter conversation. few minutes ago I saw on a computer screen some images of a conversation there was music and there was a person who looked like a young a young man with the

[13:32]

of long black hair and he looked quite what's the word strong and flexible and he was reaching out to an old woman and her face was it almost looked like it was painted white And she looked really scared. Like she was going to fall down. And he was reaching out to her and holding her arms. And then he started to dance with her. And she looked even more scared. But she held on to him. And he held on to her. And they continued to dance.

[14:34]

and she started to smile and go with the dance and as and then he started to sway her and bend with her and at one point he went up onto one leg standing on one leg and lifting his back leg up and she wound up holding his back leg and his torso And she kept going in and out of looking terrified and joyful, like afraid she was going to fall down on the linoleum floor and break into many pieces and also embraced in this conversation. Apropos of conversation, I have some stories about conversation from more than 1,000 years ago in a country called China.

[15:59]

Want to hear it? Them? There's quite a few. There's millions. Once upon a time, there was a monk who lived in the eastern part of China, next to Tibet, called Shichuan. And he was a scholar monk, a lecture monk. And his specialty was the Diamond Sutra. He knew a lot about the Diamond Sutra. He had many commentaries on it. maybe he wrote some commentaries but anyway had lots of commentaries and he gave lectures about this great sutra this great sutra about bringing all beings to peace and freedom through conversation and he heard about and he also knew that according to the

[17:16]

various teachings about the bodhisattva path, that it takes many eons for a bodhisattva to practice and realize Buddhahood. And then he heard about this Zen school in China, which said, mind itself is Buddha. Seeing that mind, and I would say seeing the conversation, being in the conversation, you realize Buddhahood. And he thought that was a great heresy, so he had the aspiration to go to where the Zen people had their headquarters and to destroy the Zen school. You know, through debate. This is the beginning of the conversation.

[18:19]

And so he's heading towards the Zen infestation in southern China. And on his way, he encounters a smack stand. It's a stand, it's a shop where fried rice cakes were being sold. And the proprietor was an old woman. And he approached her to buy some snacks. And she said to him, what's in your pack, on your back? And he said, these are commentaries on the Diamond Sutra. And she said... I will give you some of these fried rice cakes if you will answer my question about the Diamond Sutra.

[19:28]

And he said, okay, ask your question. And she said, I've heard in the Diamond Sutra it says, our past mind cannot be grasped. Our future mind cannot be grasped. Our present mind cannot be grasped. With which mind, oh learned monk, will you refresh yourself with these cakes? And he was speechless. And so he did not get the cakes. So now we have a hungry learned monk. And so she says to him, I recommend you go visit the Zen teacher, Dragon Pond.

[20:48]

He lives right over that hill. Maybe he will be able to satisfy your hunger. Close brackets. This conversation is being held up to you, to us, to you, to us, to history as great compassion. This conversation is one of the great conversations in the history of Zen. That led innumerable beings, this conversation, this conversation led innumerable beings to complete peace and freedom. but it goes on.

[21:57]

The conversation goes on because it has a lot of work to do. He goes and he finds Dragon Pond, which is the name of a teacher and the name of a temple. So he comes to Dragon Pond Temple where Dragon Pond Master is living. It doesn't say in the record that when Master Dragon Pan saw this monk coming, by the way, this monk's name is Dushan, which means Virtue Mountain. It doesn't say that when Dragon Pan saw Virtue Mountain coming, he went and hid behind a screen. It doesn't say that, but maybe that's what happened. Anyway, Virtue Mountain comes into the hall of this temple, looks around and says, I've long heard of Dragon Pond, but now I'm here and I don't see a pond and I don't see a dragon.

[23:12]

And Dragon Pond comes out from behind the screen and says, so now you have really seen Dragon Pond. May I mention this is a conversation. This is the working of great compassion in the Zen school. This is one of the great examples of great compassion working through Chinese people. This conversation probably occurred in Chinese. Later in the evening, Virtue Mountain went into Dragon Pond's room and stood in attendance or stood in the presence of the teacher. I don't know what the teacher was doing, but somehow he was allowed into the room to be there with the teacher.

[24:21]

And as time went on, it became later and later until it was quite nighttime. And the teacher, Dragon Pond, said to Virtue Mountain, it's getting late. Would you please go? And Virtue Mountain left, pulled up the screens of the door, stepped outside and said, it's dark out here. Dragon Pond got a paper lantern and lit it and handed it to Virtue Mountain. And as Virtue Mountain received the paper lantern, Dragon Pond blew it out.

[25:29]

And Virtue Mountain had a great awakening to the conversation of great compassion. He was a bright and fierce and arrogant person before this conversation. Now he was a bright and fierce awakened person. He was taken to nirvana by this conversation. The next morning, Dragon Pond went up into the teaching hall and spoke to the monks and said, there's one among you who... And I hesitate to tell you the imagery that they used. Should I give you the G-rated or R-rated? It's R-rated.

[26:39]

Are you okay with it? Here it comes. There's one among you... who has a mouth with teeth like a forest of swords filled with blood. Later on, he will ascend a solitary peak and maintain our school. He will the Buddhas and insult the ancestors. That's the kind of conversation he's going to be having in order to take beings to nirvana. And then what's his name? Virtue Mountain lit a torch, raised it up

[27:44]

put his commentaries down on the ground in front of the teaching hall, raised a torch and said, I will never again doubt the venerable teachers of the Zen school and burned his commentaries and set off on his path of conversation, of great compassion. he heard about a Zen teacher named Guishan, and that Guishan's teaching was blooming all over China. So he went to visit Guishan. But as it says in the record, he went to visit him as an adept. So there was a style in China of, if you were a...

[28:45]

If you were a, what do you call it, a well-trained adept, you would encounter other adepts in one style. But if you were a younger practitioner, another style. So he went to visit the great teacher as a peer. So he went into the teaching hall of Guishan's monastery, and he walked in, and he walked, and he didn't take his pack off, his traveling pack off, which usually, you know, the usual way, take your pack off, put on your ceremonial robes, and pay your respects to the teacher. He didn't take his traveling pack off. He walked in and walked from the east to the west and from the west. to the east, that was the conversation starter.

[29:52]

Conversation starter. And then he said, nothing here, and walked out. After he walked for a while, I thought, maybe I'm being a little hasty here or too coarse. So he went back and took his pack off and went in with his ceremonial equipment. And one of the things he brought in was his bowing mat. So when monks have their full robes on, they carry a bowing mat like this or a sitting mat, which they put on the ground when they bow. So he walked in and paid his respects and then held up his bowing mat like this and said, teacher. And as the teacher was starting to pick up his whisk, he shouted at him and walked out.

[31:03]

Later, after he walked out, Guishan, the great teacher, said to his attendant, where did that young fellow who was here earlier go? Do you know where he is? And the attendant said, well, he actually packed up and left town. And Guishan said, later, he will ascend a peak and be a great master. And apparently he was. And had many students who he helped and many students who became great masters. Many students who he had conversations with. Many students who he practiced with to realize great compassion in China.

[32:30]

more than a thousand years ago. He was a very intense teacher. The conversations, the intimacy which he had with his male and female students, the intimacy he had was really energetic and very effective in realizing great compassion together he's highly celebrated for the great benefits of his conversations and they all look from the outside very really dramatic and fierce but one that I want to bring up finally is and I don't know how old he was at this time But he was with his attendant.

[33:33]

His attendant in the story has a name. And the attendant's name is Hu. Attendant Hu. Now the fact that he has a name probably means that he's actually a successor. And so attendant Hu says to Virtue Mountain, where have all the sages of antiquity gone? And this intense teacher in this intense meeting with this intense student, says, huh? What? What did you say?

[34:37]

And the attendant says, the request was for a flying dragon horse. And what showed up was a lame tortoise. And Virtue Mountain let it pass. Part of what makes this story so notable is that there's many stories of where he did not let it pass, where his response was very intense and effective in helping a person wake up, just like Dragon Pond helped him by blowing out the lamp. He blew out a lot of people's lamps. lot of people woke up. Because of great compassion.

[35:40]

Not because of him, but because of the conversation that he was able to have with people who wanted to have conversations. Even though they were afraid, in the embrace, they dared to dance with him. Now here's the attendant who talks like this to the great teacher. And the great teacher lets it pass. Now if you know, if I know something about Dushan, I might be waiting for the other foot to land. And it does. The other foot is the next day or the next morning as the teacher, virtue mountain. is coming out of the bath, the attendant passes him a cup of tea. Virtue Mountain, the great master, receives the tea and pats the attendant on the back gently.

[36:58]

Again, There's many stories of where it wasn't so gentle. This one was. Just pats him on the back once. And then the attendant says, this old fellow has finally got a little understanding. And there's one more line to the story. Virtue Mountain, let it pass. I looked at this watch and it says it's about 11 o'clock.

[38:38]

So that's pretty long talk. Long enough, right? Is that long enough? Who knows, right? We actually don't know how long these talks are supposed to be. How long is a good conversation? One minute, two minutes, three hours, ten years. I don't know. I don't know. Do you know? What is great compassion? No one knows. However, that's the topic of this training period, great compassion. The topic is something that nobody knows what it is. And yet, it keeps coming up in conversations. And maybe it will continue to come up in conversation. Yesterday we had a sitting here where we sat from 5 in the morning till 6 at night.

[39:55]

We also, you know, we had intervals in the sitting where we got up and walked for a little while. And we had meals, too. So we weren't just sitting all day. But we sat a good share of the day from 5 in the morning till 6 at night. And at the end, a song came to my mind. But I didn't sing it because... I don't know. I don't know why I didn't. But it did come in my mind. But almost nobody heard it. Because it was in this mind. And I was there. And it was there. But you weren't. But now... It's going to come out. The song goes like this. Something goes like this. Boom, boom, [...] boom. You sit 13 hours and what do you get?

[41:01]

Another day, older and deeper in debt. St. Peter, don't you call me because I can't go. I owe my soul to the Zendo. Boom, boom, [...] boom. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our programs are made possible by the donations we receive. Please help us to continue to realize and actualize the practice of giving by offering your financial support. For more information, visit sfzc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[41:56]

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