Welcome and welcome back. It is the 5th of January, and at the invitation of our head of practice, Nancy Petron, our speaker for tonight is Shundo David Hay. Shundo lived at City Center in Tassajara for 15 years and received priest ordination in 2009 and served as Shuso at Tassajara in 2012. Recently, Shundo's worked on the SFCC's audio archive. And we're all happy to say that he helped discover some lost talks by Suzuki Roshi. Thank you for being here. And let's begin with the sutra opening verse. having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept.

[02:28]

I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. Thank you, Kodo. Good evening, everybody. It's lovely to be here. And it's lovely to see so many faces. I was watching people come on the screen. It's nice to be surrounded by Dharma brothers and Dharma sisters and names I remember from my years of practice at City Center and Tassahara. Thank you to Nancy for inviting me to give this talk. Thank you to my teacher, Anshi Zachary Smith, who is in the Assembly. So it's my privilege, I think, to give the first talk of 2022. And I have not made any resolutions for this year, but I do have a vow that I won't say again. My vow is to embody upright teaching. And I apologize once again for the times that I have failed to live up to that vow.

[03:29]

And it happens that I also gave a talk in the first week of 2021. And it was interesting to kind of step back in time and to read again the notes I made for that talk. And interestingly, in that talk, I reflected back on the talk I'd given at the end of 2019. So bear with me. At the beginning of 2021, imagining what it was like at the end of 2019 when we hadn't even begun the pandemic. And I suggested that if, from my viewpoint of the first week of January 2021, if I had said to everybody in the Assembly at the end of 2019 what they were about to live through in 2020, everyone would run away screaming. And yet we had all managed to survive 2012. Many of us had managed to survive 2020. And actually, the mood at the beginning of 2021, if people find it hard to recollect, we had the sense of a new year, we had a new president and a new vaccine was around the corner. But as I said during the course of the lecture, are we there yet?

[04:35]

No, we're not there. We're here. There was already a feeling that we wanted the pandemic to be over. it struck me very strongly that I mentioned the death toll, the US death toll at the time, which was 350,000 people. And I was talking how I was visualizing that with the aid of sports stadium, imagining several sports stadium fill of people. The New York Times today announced that, well, the number quoted in the New York Times today is 828,000 deaths in the US. And By way of comparison, the population of the city of San Francisco is around 880,000 people. So for the purposes of visualization, visualize that 94% of the population of San Francisco has died from the pandemic. So I think we can all pause for a moment to think about that.

[05:38]

When I started gathering material for this talk, I was finding it a little hard to be optimistic. So the talk I gave last year was immediately before the January the 6th insurrection at the Capitol, the effects of which are still happening right now. And reading the stories of my home country back in England, the government seems to be mired in an ongoing corruption and kind of lack of integrity that is deeply troubling. And while we have the vaccines now and we have boosters, you know, a year ago we could not envisage Delta, let alone Omicron. And, you know, when I started thinking about this, Omicron was looking extremely worrying. Now people are trying not to be so worried about it because it doesn't seem so lethal. But nevertheless, we are still deeply impacted. There is still a lot of suffering happening. And so, of course, it's tempting to wonder a year from now, You know, how will it look to us? What will we have lived through in 2022?

[07:01]

Now, I was intending to write this talk at Tassajara because I'd been invited, which is a great gift, down to spend a few days at Tassajara right around the new year. And I was excited on many levels, one that I hadn't been to Tassajara, which is a place I love for more than two and a half years now. Another is that I literally had not spent a single night away from home in the whole year of 2021. It didn't seem a prudent thing to be doing. And I traveled down on the 30th with some monks who were returning to the practice period. And we got as far as Salinas in very heavy traffic on the 101. And Leslie called from Jamesburg to say that even though... The county had come to remove a tree, which we knew was blocking the road. They hadn't actually removed the tree that people coming out of Tassajara had encountered on their way out. So there were still other trees on the way. She advised us that we couldn't get into Tassajara that day, that we should travel back to San Francisco and start again the next day.

[08:06]

So we turned right around on the 101 and headed back to San Francisco. So I didn't get quiet time at Tassajara. I didn't get to visit. I have just Today, I've had two online photo albums shared with me today by Dharma Brothers, Brent and Miles. Brent was down there at the last practice period, and Miles did manage to get in and out during the interim period, so I got to experience some envy of the beautiful photographs that they had taken. I certainly got to miss that experience this time around. However, I'm going to invoke Tassahara in the context of a quote by Suzuki Roshi that it being 2021 I shared on Instagram, on the 50th anniversary of his death, which was about a month ago, on December the 4th, 2021. And this is a quote, I was looking for quotes, I've been reading a lot in the Suzuki Roshi Archive, as I'll say a little more about in a moment, looking for quotes about what he was saying about Zen in America.

[09:10]

And this quote I found very striking. So this is July the 1st in 1969 when Tassahara was just a couple of years old and was still a fledgling monastery where they were still establishing the kind of the monastic way and how things were done. Suzuki Roshi says, and I think we should not try to propagate Zen in America, you know. That is not Dogen Zenji's way. One by one is enough. If you have good understanding between your friend, that is enough. If you love someone, you know, You should try to make them understand you. That's all. So at this point, I want to put in a plug for several things. First of all, my upcoming class with Avid Ed, where we're going to be looking at several talks by Suzuki Roshi. Not these particular talks from Tassajara, but earlier talks that he gave in Los Altos, talks which then became Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind. I want to put in a plug for the elders of Zen Center, Ed included, who

[10:17]

still around who had personal experience of being with suzuki roshi and the the presence that he had and transmitted that has uh sustained i think the zen center in the 50 years since his death i mean i also want to put in a plug for the archives themselves they're an amazing resource um suzuki roshi gave about 400 talks we think during his time in san francisco and there is now audio for around 300 of them they're not all super easy to listen to um but once you start getting used to his cadences, it's an amazing treasure to be able to access. And just, you know, as a reminder, Suzuki Roshi was the founder of these temples. And then, you know, in the Japanese tradition that we inherited from Suzuki Roshi, the founder has an esteemed role in the temple. And, you know, there are special rooms at city center and in Green Gulch and Tassahara, you know, dedicated to his memory, the Kaisando. So he, you know, as the founder, he built the foundations of Zen Center.

[11:20]

And, you know, I'm going to take a moment just to reflect for those who may not be so familiar with the history, like what he, what it was that he managed to achieve in the course of only 12 years that he was in the States. And I often think, and you know, when I'm teaching, I often draw parallels between Suzuki Roshi's experience and Dogen's experience, Dogen being the Japanese founder of Soto Zen and the tradition that has been passed down to us. And their experience of trying to establish Zen in a new country. And another parallel that occurred to me while I was writing this was that both of them lived through challenging times. When Dogen was alive at the beginning of the 13th century in Japan, it was a time of war and famine. And even though he had a birth in the upper strata of society near the imperial court, I think he was not immune from that. And of course, Suzuki Roshi, as a young man, lived through the Second World War in Japan before coming to America.

[12:25]

I mean, if you don't know his story, I really recommend reading Crooked Cucumber. But in 12 years, he managed not only to... start the or you know help found the the non-profit of Zen Center in 1962 but also founded Tassahara as the first training monastery outside of Asia and then before his death you know the city center building was bought and the community established there. And the fact that we're all still practicing in these temples is I think a tribute to the power of his teaching and the power of his presence I think which are inseparable from each other. and the other thing i appreciate about suzuki roshi is when you listen to his talks or read read the talks or read zen mind beginner's mind which is the first zen book i read more than 20 years ago which you know had a huge influence on my choosing the path of zen um you can hear how he's channeling dogen's teaching and dogen's teaching is you know for me one of the pinnacles of human wisdom and suzuki roshi

[13:35]

did his absolute best to explain in a language that was not his native language to people who did not know necessarily the context of what he was talking about, what Dogen was trying to convey about the human experience. And this is a treasure, this historical wisdom is a treasure that we can hold these teachings so close to us. And we have many people to thank for that. We have, you know, the people at Zen Center at the time, you can hear on many of the tapes, Richard Baker making little announcements about when the tape was made or what was missed when the tape was turned over. To Marion Darby, who recorded the tapes that became the transcripts to Zen Mind Beginner's Mind at a time when nobody else had thought to record Suzuki Roshi in an audio form. I have to thank... all the officers of Zen Center who've made the archive available and have kept it going over the years, and Joe Tannis, the archives professor at the University of Washington, and David Chadwick, who's done a lot of work to make this happen and put a lot of his energy into securing the legacy of Suzuki Roshi.

[14:47]

And I have a personal thanks to Charlie Wilson, who I've worked with for coming up for six years now and digitizing these archives, not just the Zen Center archives, but other related Zen archives as treasures that we can all access and all engage in. And part of my experience has been literally holding the actual reels and cassettes that were being used for the recordings back in the 1960s, which is something of itself. I had the amazing privilege a couple of years ago now of listening to the real, which was thought to have been lost, where Suzuki Roshi used the term beginner's mind that became the transcript of the talk. And as I realized that it was actually the talk in question, that was the talk, because the markings on the tape weren't clear, there was like a shiver that went down my spine to be hearing those words and not knowing how long it was since anybody had actually heard him say those words. Even if we've read the book, there's something about him hearing him say those words.

[15:51]

And often when we listen to these talks, when I listen to these talks, it sounds like he's having a lot of fun with a group of friends. There's this very small, pretty tight knit community in some cases. And he is really trying to to instill his vision of Zen. And we can still feel the kind of the intimacy of those occasions. And the question came up a lot of how to build Zen in America. You know, how Japanese should it be? How American should it be? What compromises needed to be made? And this is a live question even now. And it's worth remembering that, you know, by historical standards, we have not got very far into the process of bringing Zen into the West. For me, it feels like a very live question now when we're living in a time of such factionalism, and I use that word from the Dama Seat rather than slightly shorter homophone, and a political system based on individual achievements of capital, of striving and ambition.

[17:12]

And it seems to me still to be a radical proposition to build a community of practice, of people practicing together, held together, by Zazen and by the precepts, both of which activities Suzuki Roshi was very keen to emphasize over and over. And it reminded me that when I lived at Tassahara, I would be able to visit Esalen. This is one of the perks of living at Tassahara. You could take a vacation at Esalen. And I remember asking some of the people that were working there, well, what is it that binds the community together? And they said, oh, we do a lot of processing. And I thought, okay, well at SNN you have processing, at Tassahar we have Zazen, and I know which I think is maybe a more sustainable and cohesive way to continue a community, to build a community. And we're still doing this and we can still do this. And I think the key to it, and especially in this time of division and

[18:15]

you know, this illusion of separation that we have these days is to do it as Suzuki Roshi says, one by one. You know, we don't have to make, we don't have to proselytize. You know, Zen is not a proselytizing religion, but we can work one by one. And for me, there's, you know, something I think about a lot is the magical transformation that happens, which I'm sure many people listening know what i'm talking about when the the self-inquiry when the way seeking mind that brings us to practice so miraculously transforms into this concern and compassion for all and that we realize that we're not just doing this as an individual practice we're doing it for the benefit of all people and we have you know in in the buddhist tradition we have the tools in the toolbox and these are the things that i've been teaching during the pandemic particularly because I think people with the practice have been able to find the resilience to endure the pandemic because of tools like the Brahma Viharas and the Parameters.

[19:25]

And then, you know, as I said, when I started writing this, I was feeling pretty down. You know, I didn't get to go to Tassahara. I had a pretty kind of low time generally. And, you know, the question for me is always like when things are tough, what is it that keeps you buoyant? What is it that keeps you going? And for me, one of the things is an everyday commitment to Zazen, an everyday commitment to seeing things fresh. So I got back to San Francisco and even though I had no social plans or anything, I was able to go out on my bike. And what struck me on my bike, apart from the fact it was a beautiful sunny day, was spontaneous and random interactions with people on the street. I stopped to take a picture of a school and I started a conversation with somebody who obviously lived on the street and was kind of also admiring how beautiful school looked in that particular sunlight. Now, it's partly due to the holidays because people tend to be kind of not so rushed and a bit more friendly on the holidays.

[20:28]

But my notion is that we can do that every day. And it's this, you know, I find as I go through life now, not living at the center, not living in the community in the same way. that it's these random moments of connection that are actually really important and very valuable. And while I was riding my bike, since I didn't write this talk at Tassa, I wrote several chunks of it in my head while I was riding my bike in the last week or so, the notion came out that as we reach people one by one, we meet people one by one, every time we connect with somebody else as a human being rather than some other, then we win. Because people want to be seen. This is the common human experience. And it seems to me that many people in this country only are feeling seen by those who are trying to monetize fear and anger, which is very potent, but is also very divisive and separating.

[21:29]

And my experience of living in the Sangha is that being in community It doesn't mean that you have to like everybody that you're with, but you do want them to do well. And again, this is the power of zazen, this is the power of the precepts, holding us to our bodhisattva vows that many of us have taken. And I was reminded of two quotes about bodhisattvas. One is from Uchiyama Roshida. 20th century Japanese teacher, who said that a bodhisattva is an ordinary person who has a direction towards Buddha. And I think that probably, I think, accounts for everybody who is at this talk today. We all have a direction towards Buddha, and we're all ordinary people. No matter what robes we're wearing or not wearing, we're all ordinary people who have directions towards Buddha. And as Norman Fisher said, I didn't find this quote, but I remember him, I think in his book on the parameters,

[22:36]

talking about bodhisattvas not trying to persuade people, not arguing with people, but leading by example, leading by their conduct, leading by their being, by their presence, in the same way that it was Suzuki Roshi's being and presence that attracted so many people to the practice 50 years ago. I have an ego that keeps me awake at night and balloons up to enormous proportions at times, but I know through my practice that I can put that aside at times when it matters and meet the person that I'm with, meet whoever I'm encountering and meet the moment that I'm with. And so in this new project that Suzuki Roshi undertook establishing Zen in the West, establishing Dogen's way in the West. I think we can counterbalance the toxic legacies of some of the elements of the society that we live in and our own illusions of separateness through this kind of activity, through this bodhisattva activity.

[23:48]

And it also occurred to me while I was writing around city and points further out that in my role as a Zen teacher, you know, how to teach Zen is always a life question for me, especially beyond the confines of giving a Dharma talk or giving classes at Zen Center. How do I reach people? How do I meet people? How can I be as inclusive as possible? The possibility as a Zen teacher is to be a force multiplier, that we can use some of the ways that the first paramita, the perfection of generosity talks about, can use the gift of Dharma and the gift of fearlessness. And we can give courage to others to work in the same way. And so in this way, we can establish a community. And two words that Suzuki Roshi uses a lot and that Sojin Mel Weitzman also used a lot,

[24:56]

composure and constancy and when i was traveling in the vehicle down towards tassahara with three monks who were going back for the practice period um i didn't know any of them before i got into the vehicle so we were just sharing our you know our dharma biographies what struck me um even if they might not feel it themselves was their composure and their constancy the sense that they were in the practice They were continuing their practice, and there was something about their presence that felt reassuring to me, even as someone who has been surrounded by many people like that over the years. It was reassuring to me that these monks going back to Tassajara were upholding the practice and would be upholding the practice through their lives. And so this, to me, is how we can meet these difficult moments, make an everyday commitment based on our practice and based on our vow. And I want to read Suzuki Roshi's quote again.

[25:58]

And I think we should not try to propagate Zen in America, you know. That is not Dogen Zenji's way. One by one is enough. If you have good understanding between your friend, that is enough. If you love someone, you know, you should try to make them understand you. That's all. I also want to invoke other wise teachers. I was reading an article by Rebecca Solnit in the New York Times today, and I find her approach to hopefulness and the possibilities of altruism in society incredibly encouraging. And also to the recently departed Bell Hooks, who every time I come across one of her quotes, I feel encouraged. And one that I particularly enjoy is her quote, fundamentally to begin the practice of love, we must slow down and be still enough to bear witness in the present moment.

[27:04]

And I think this is something that we can all do, and I think we're all training to do that. When we're in the temple, when we're in the monastery, the word love might not come up quite so much, but I think it is fundamental to how we practice and what we practice for the love that connects us as human beings. So even though I didn't get to spend New Year at Tassajara and I didn't get to have that experience that I knew I was craving of just spending a few days at human speed, nothing faster than walking, which I think is something that we lack out here in the city. Whenever I go somewhere like Tassajara, where the fastest you can get anywhere is walking, it reminds me how to be kind of grounded and in my body in a way that being out in the world tends to make you forget. I didn't get to have that experience, but I still took courage from the monks who were going to Tassahara, from Tassahara itself, from practice, from Suzuki Roshi. So who knows what lies ahead this year?

[28:12]

Maybe I'll be giving a talk a year from now and talking about it. But however it goes, I wish for all of us a year of composure and constancy. Thank you very much. They our intention equally extend to every being and place with the true merit of Buddha's way. Beings are numberless, I vow to save them. Illusions are inexhaustible, I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to be coming. Thank you so much, Shundo. Now we have some time for comments, questions. If you would like to participate in that way, feel free to raise your Zoom hand and I can help unmute you.

[29:19]

Ten. Kundo, thank you so much. Wonderful. Some of us were asked today, what is different about San Francisco Zen Center from other practice centers? And it struck me that it's one of the main things is this lineage that you spoke about and that you and my teacher, Abed Ed, will be teaching about in the class that you mentioned that's starting, I think, this weekend. And you spoke about it today and how rich it is. And it's a fascinating, it's a phenomenon that I have never really had in my life before. I'm being trained to be a part of it, of this lineage that goes through Suzuki Roshi to Dogen and many, many people in between.

[30:28]

It's mystical almost. Some people even consider it to be esoteric, which means that just a few people understand it. Can you talk a little bit about or compare and contrast, if you will, this mystical lineage that we're a part of and that you've spoken about? And the other thing that you mentioned, which is inclusivity. And you spoke about it. It's a political term that has very important use. But you also spoke about it in the terms of just being simply connected in a loving way to people. Can you talk about those two things right there? Sorry, me old sausage. Cheers, mate. Thanks. It's a very rich question. You know, I think it boils, you know, on the one hand, and let's remember that my understanding of Zen, the way I experience Zen is there's the one hand and the other hand, and there's both hands together.

[31:41]

So on the one hand, we have Suzuki Roshi's presence, which was a powerful factor. On the other hand, we had, you know, the particular culture of San Francisco at the time, which meant there was a particular kind of... person that was drawn generationally and culturally that was drawn to that kind of practice. And it's something that I've felt about a number of Zen groups that I've visited elsewhere is that there's often a kind of a folding in, like, oh, we have this nice group of people, let's fold in and kind of have a nice cozy group of people doing this practice together. in a way that means that people who aren't initially reflected in that cozy group of people don't feel as invited to join. And I know that Zen Center has... When I first came to Zen Center in 2000, there was a lot of talk about that. And I know a lot of talk and action has happened since then to reverse that trend.

[32:45]

I think it's a kind of historical, cultural trend that maybe... you know, maybe accidental or maybe systemic. You know, I don't want to be conclusive about that. But there are a lot of factors that go into making that happen, I think. I'm going to quote a teacher I respect deeply, Angel Kyodo Williams, who in a group meeting I was in with her kind of made the point along the lines of... If you're trying to reach out to minority or targeted communities as a white person wearing Japanese robes, they're going to look at you like, what's going on here? And that informs a lot of how I try to move through the world. I love wearing the robes. I feel different. I feel blessed to be wearing these robes and what they represent. Because that does tie me in with the tradition I value and take very seriously.

[33:46]

I know that this puts a lot of people off. I was just talking to somebody today, said, oh, yeah, I used to live on the same block as Zen Center, but I never went in. You know, and it's that kind of like, how did that happen? How did that person never, you know, had some interest, you know, had visited the Dalai Lama in India, but lived on the same block as Zen Center and never actually walked through the door? How did these things happen? What are the factors there? And so if we make this a life question, you know, keep this in front of us, You know, how is it we're doing? Who are we reaching? Who are we meeting? I think Suzuki Roshi didn't care about who he met. And I think at the time, the fact that he opened the doors to, you know, these straggly haired hippies was to his credit, you know, and he made no judgments about the people that were coming in. As long as they practiced, he would teach to them. And that's my understanding of how he approached things. So what is our equivalent of that today? You know, where do we... How do we meet people?

[34:47]

Where do we meet them? He didn't proselytize, but he did go and give talks around San Francisco and in many other places as well. So it wasn't that the group was just hermetic at the time. So what are the ways we can make this practice less hermetic as we go through future generations? And to me, you and I growing up in England know, my sense of coming to San Francisco was or coming to America was that the cultural mix was very different to how it was in England. I mean, England was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but there was a different cultural legacy around racism and inclusivity, I think, at the time. And so that's something I still struggle with as an outsider to understand all the facets of how this has happened in America. Does that help? We do our best, Tim, we do our best. More questions, more comments.

[36:07]

Miles. Can you hear me? Sorry, Nancy has to turn off her computer. You could always screen share, you know. Sorry to make you envious today. Looked beautiful. It looked beautiful. Yeah. Good practice. You had some adventures, yeah? I want to second listening to the talks, having listened to probably 100 talks. and how much different they are than reading them for me. Just his encouragement and that he's teaching first generation students too. So that will always be available to people that come to practice to be introduced to his teaching as a newcomer. And I don't really have a question, but I just also want to note that

[37:14]

He came to the U.S. 14 years after we dropped a bomb seven hours from his temple to teach us wisdom and compassion. Yes. Thank you for mentioning that. I was trying to allude to that, but I didn't make quite such a strong statement as that, and that is very true. I know he had some affinity with speaking English early in his life. That might have motivated his decision. But, yeah, the fact of, you know, when I grew up and I'm, you know, a generation younger, like the war was a huge deal in England still. And it still is a huge deal. People talk about it all the time. So to make that journey is an incredible act, certainly. But it reminds me that I didn't quite address Tim's point about the esoteric part of the teaching and that I... It's a tricky word because I think that, you know, when I first read Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, I didn't understand a word of it, but it made sense to me.

[38:17]

And that's what encouraged me to dig deeper. So I don't know if I see it in terms of esotericism. I think I see it in terms of like an affinity, like a seeking affinity, the way seeking mind that brings us. And as you say, like... was reaching people who were first generation, who had no idea what he was trying to tell them necessarily. But somehow it made sense to them and they were encouraged to continue. And that, to me, is at the heart of the face-to-face transmission that Zen rightly prides itself on, even if some of the teachers along the lines maybe weren't so great. But the fact that through this lineage through you know 700 years or you know two and a half thousand years um the teacher spoke to the student and the student understood something and encourage that encouraged them to continue and then to pass on and you know we're just you know this is this is one thing i you know i try to remember is like

[39:23]

We think we're the end point of history. We're not. We're just handing on to the next generation, the next generation after that and generation after that. Now, you know, I'm kind of pessimistic about how well humans are actually going to survive the climate crisis. Nevertheless, it's our vow to pass on these teachings to the people that follow us just in the way that, you know, the hermits in China through all the various persecutions, you know, hid in the mountains so that they could pass the teachings on to them. next generation this is our you know it's our obligation and our duty along with our vow to do this um as i say we're you know not very far into the process i i often read you know historical books and kind of wonder well what would the author have said if they'd encountered zen like i often feel that kind of authors are groping towards something that is laid out in zen in ways that make it abundantly clear And so, you know, Western culture, which prides itself on being the pinnacle of civilization, is only just getting exposed to these wisdom teachings.

[40:26]

So what happens when there has been like an infusion of Zen teaching into our culture for several hundred years? If we're still around, you know, if anyone is still around, how will the world be? You know, maybe the world would be in a better place. That's my faith. I know it's yours too. Thank you. I couldn't find my hand. I'm interested in composure. I feel that it's... I am wanting to kind of open up the word. When you speak of love, I find myself feeling that... just using the word composure doesn't quite bring me there. Because I've also learned in my life that vulnerability is an important practice too.

[41:36]

So I'm wondering, and that composure can be a hiding place that you can in your composure actually not deal with people, right? So how do you understand what composure is as, I think it's, you started by saying that you want to be upright in your teaching. So I'm also exploring composure from your starting place and from your ending place. Thank you. Those are very wonderful observations. I do know exactly what you mean about using composure to kind of close the doors. And yes, I'm a Zen monk. I don't get bothered by anything. I don't think that's what Suzuki Roshi was teaching.

[42:36]

And my understanding is that that's not how he presented himself either. I think I would recommend you go and go and find one of Sojin Mills talks about it because I think he talks about it wonderfully. Um, my sense is that, you know, in the same way that, uh, upright sitting allows us to sit upright, no matter what is happening. You know, our composure allows us to be, um, I'm going to say be composed in your vulnerability, you know, allow yourself because, um, The one thing that I have experienced for myself is that speaking as a grade A introvert, it's very easy for me to close the doors. And I spent a lot of time doing that. And through the practice, especially through being at Tassahara, and I have very particular kind of memories around this, being able to open the doors and say, that's okay, I don't have to protect this right now and still be there. Mm-hmm. It's actually, it's an amazing gift.

[43:39]

It's been an amazing gift to me. I know other people find that possibility pretty amazing too. So I think, you know, being grounded and open, you know, it's a version of equanimity. It's not being unruffled. It's just being there with everything. Thank you. I see we have two hands and three minutes. You do. Thank you so much for your talk, Shindo. You mentioned Marion Darby, and I read the book she wrote last year. I read it last year, the book she wrote, The Zen Environment. She, as you said, was a student of

[44:40]

and she went off in the turbulent 60s. And I'm wondering if it's a great little book. She kind of tries to describe Zen for the newcomer. But I'm just wondering if you know what's happened to her this year. It was published in 1982 and it's been almost 40 years. I don't know if you're talking about her or not. I know we're running out of time. I have that very same edition of that book that I found in a yard sale for about 25 cents, not knowing anything about it and discovered it was all about Tassajara, which is pretty amazing. She was the person who hosted the talks that Zen Mind, Beginners Mind were recorded at. She went to Tassajara. She ended up having a difficult time. She left. She lived in Big Sur. My understanding, she died about 10 years ago. I recommend that you go and investigate David Chadwick's site at cube.com because he has several sections on her, like letters that she wrote to David Chadwick, recollections from other friends, contemporaries of hers at Tassajara.

[45:56]

Um, I, you know, I, I think the book is wonderful. If you can get hold of the book, I would certainly recommend it, uh, in terms of, of living a Zen life and then taking that out and going and living as a hermit and going and doing a whole bunch of other stuff. So, um, unfortunately she is now dead, but I think she lived a great life. Thank you, Peter. No time for a final exchange. Yes. Thank you. Jim. I just want to share, you talked about bicycle and constancy. I just thought I'd share a little experience of constancy. I was cycling up Mount Diablo over the weekend, and cycling has always been a very meditative thing for me. And I knew I was going to get to the top, but there was that sense of the spinning and... really feeling very deeply that sense of constancy, that the bike was always moving forward and that I felt the same thing in my own practice of sitting meditation, that sometimes it's so difficult to feel that sense of being present.

[47:10]

And in that moment of cycling, that sense of constancy was really present. Thank you so much. I haven't ridden up Mount Diablo for a few years and I did it last weekend. I always found that I wanted to enjoy every single moment, and somehow I was always at the top and like, oh, I want to do it again. Did you take the North Road or the South Road? We came from Walnut Creek, so we took the, I guess that's the North Road. Yeah. Wonderful, wonderful. Yes, I had many more Zen moments on a bicycle than on a cushion for the early part of my life, definitely. So thank you for sharing that, and I hope you have many other wonderful rides at Mandietla. Thank you. Kodo, before we all unmute to thank Shindo for the talk, on behalf of the Sangha, I want to thank you for being our online Eno and hosting all of our talks, our Wednesday evening and Saturday morning talks from City Center since we went online for the pandemic.

[48:14]

You've done such a beautiful job, and we've all been so touched by your graciousness, your generosity. generosity and your practice. And we wish you luck down as you head to Tassajara to be Shuso down there for the practice period. So thank you so much, Kodo. And I just wanted to insert myself on behalf of the Sangha. Thank you, Tanto-san. That was the journey I made 10 years ago from two and a half years of being Eno, although it was live in person Eno to being Shuso at Tassajara. Kodo, you've been a wonderful Eno and you'll be a wonderful Shuso. And if I get invited to your Shuso ceremony, I will feel incredibly blessed. What a kind way to end. Two years. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Shunda. Thank you. Take care. Thank you. Thank you, Shunda.

[49:14]

Bye. Thank you. Bye. That was awesome, Shindo. Bye. Thanks. Thank you, Shindo. Thank you for the beautiful talk, Shindo. I loved it. Thank you, Kodo. Thanks, Kodo. Thanks, Shindo. Hey, Brennan. Good to see you. Hope to see you on Saturday. I'll be there. Excellent, excellent, excellent. Special shout out to Joe Shikachi. Love to see you on name there, Joe. Hope you're doing well. And Roger, of course, former Shiso. See you later, Shindo. Thanks, buddy.

[50:09]

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