It can help to bring attention to the body and to the breath. Noticing the posture, making a very conscious choices about how to place the body, how to place the hands and feet. Lengthening, lengthening the spine. And arriving. What is it like to arrive, letting go? Noticing the breath, following the breath, counting exhales, whatever works to allow you to be here.

[01:40]

Seeing if it's possible to not do anything extra. Keeping it radically simple. Breathing. Some curiosity. Curiosity about the breath, the body. feelings, sensations, not hiding anything. Just noticing what is it like to arrive.

[04:31]

What is it like to be right here? studying, studying the self and going beyond the self, letting go, letting go of self. Letting go of ideas and judgments of comparison, doing it right or wrong.

[05:49]

Is it possible to just be here, noticing and appreciating whatever arises? Coming back to the breath, back to the body.

[16:07]

Experiencing your experience. ordinary, ordinary mind. It's cultivating curiosity and kindness.

[19:00]

Kind of dropping in and embodying, embodying as much as we can. Curiosity and kindness, kindness to ourselves. to meet each other and the world with kindness, meet each breath with kindness. Good evening.

[23:47]

Welcome. Welcome to the San Francisco Zen Center Thursday evening sit and session. If you were expecting David Zimmerman, I'm sorry to disappoint you. This is Mark Lesser, and David has asked several different questions teachers to take on this Thursday night, and here I am. And it's really nice to see you all, several familiar faces and many new faces. I lived at the Zen Center. I was a resident many years ago for about 10 years. And actually, I moved back to 300 Page Street on March 1st. I was going to live there for a month, co-leading with Susan O'Connell and Intensive.

[24:54]

And then the world changed. I lived there for the first two weeks. And then on March 13th, I came back to where I live here in Mill Valley. And I've been sheltering in place ever since. These are amazing times, as I'm sure you've noticed. Who would have ever thought that we would live through a pandemic that we seem to be right in the middle of? And at the same time, living in the midst of, I think, one of the most potent, powerful uprisings of consciousness around race, around equity and inclusiveness. And yeah, and I think I'm not gonna talk for long.

[26:00]

I just have a few things to say, and then I want to open it up to have a discussion, see if there's questions or comments, but I feel compelled somehow to weave in weave in something about a traditional Zen story with what's happening. And it's not hard to do, you know, because I think that all Zen stories are fundamentally about finding freedom, finding our own internal freedom, right? Freedom from greed, hate, and delusion. And I think essentially these Zen stories are for the purpose of then doing what we can to meet and find some way of meeting and reducing or ending greed, hate, and delusion in the world.

[27:04]

And greed, hate, and delusion have been popular for thousands of years. This is, I think, why Buddhism was created, was developed and taught in the first place, was a recognition of how easy it is to not live in the world of kindness and compassion and instead to live in the world of ego and self. And I want to just... briefly mention, I often go back to what I think of as the fundamental and founding story of Zen, which is in the sixth century China, when Bodhidharma traveled from this kind of dedicated, unusual monk, Indian monk, traveled from India to China.

[28:10]

and uh was called to meet with the emperor of china who this is somewhat of a famous dialogue famous koan in which the emperor of china asks bodhidharma you know what is the highest meaning of these holy truths which i think is really he was asking how can i find real freedom what does it mean to be a free awakened human being And Bodhidharma responded, nothing holy, emptiness. And then the emperor looked at Bodhidharma and said, who are you? Who is this that's facing me? And Bodhidharma famously said, I don't know. I don't know. And I think, in a way, this story is, I think, a story about... letting go of the things that we grasp onto as holy.

[29:15]

And in this time, like in this time of pandemic, you know, I think some of us think going out to restaurants is holy or going out to parties or being with our friends or whatever we... I think this time is challenging our assumptions and it's providing, I think, just the right amount of... at least for many of us, struggling with what really matters. And at the same time, it's a bit, for many of us, settling and more monastic. And I think it's no accident that this upsurgent, this uprising in consciousness around race is happening within this moment of settling and questioning our assumptions. And as I was doing some research about some commentary on some Zen koans, and I stumbled across this phrase, without upset, there is no solution.

[30:34]

And I was surprised that that when I googled this phrase, it led me to Frederick Douglass. And I'd certainly heard of Frederick Douglass, but I was surprised how little I knew about his life. That Frederick Douglass was born into slavery in 1817, became a leading writer, statesman, and abolitionist. I had no idea that in 1872, he was the first African-American to be nominated for vice president of the United States. And this phrase, if there is no struggle, there is no progress, I want to just read just a few sentences from a speech that he gave in 1857. He says, let me give you a word.

[31:38]

of the philosophy of reform. The whole history of the progress of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims have been born of earnest struggle. The conflict has been exciting, agitating, all-absorbing, and for the time being, putting all other tumults to silence. It must do this or it does nothing. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are people who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the oceans without the awful roar of its many waters. So I think... Just like Bodhidharma and Zen in the 6th century, I imagine the struggle that Bodhidharma, this Indian monk arriving in China, must have faced to be able to answer the emperor who asked about Zen, and he said, empty, not holy, probably completely empty.

[33:05]

the opposite of what the emperor was expecting and the struggle it must have taken in his life to be able to look at the emperor of China who asked who is this and to say, I don't know. And then these few words by Frederick Douglass, I'm struck by especially this last few lines, this last sentiments of this talk in which I see these as practices, plowing the ground, thunder and lightning, and the awful roar. In a way, this is much like meditation practice. The meditation practice and Zen practice is plowing the ground, plowing the ground of our being and being open to the unexpected. And sometimes that unexpected can be struggle, can be painful, can be like the thunder and lightning. That sometimes it takes, I think we're feeling right now the thunder and lightning of people's anger, the injustices of the world, the facing the thunder and lightning of the history of racial inequality, along with the awful roar, right?

[34:30]

The awful roar that... sometimes can be an awful roar sometimes can be a wonderful and beautiful roar that comes up in our when we're really paying attention to our own being our own habits and and patterns and and the awful roar of looking at the the pain and suffering that have been caused through systemic racism over the years And I have to say, much of, I'm feeling both right now this, and I think so much of our lives and so much of history are paying attention to the pain and to the possibility. The pains and possibilities both inside ourselves, right? To be able to feel the pain.

[35:30]

But I think so much of, I think Zen, I think Zen practice is very optimistic and aspirational because it's all about transforming pain into the possibility of awakening. And I think right now we're seeing that being played out in our country and globally as we are plowing and feeling this pain that is so prominent and holding open the possibility of awakening. as Frederick Douglass says, of progress, of real progress. Maybe that's enough for now. Again, you know, I don't profess to have any answers. I don't, I'm speaking, I speak from the, you know, I'm very aware of my

[36:32]

my privilege as being a white man. And I've been a bit embarrassed with how much I've been appreciating and enjoying this time, living in beautiful Marin County and going for walks in Marin. And at the same time, I'm also in a way that feels different, new for me, wondering what is my responsibility and how can I meet this moment and this time. So we have time. Wonderful that we do. And I think because I can't see everyone, it would be really useful if we could use this beautiful raising hand function.

[37:33]

And I assume most of you know how this works, but if you don't, you just click on the participant. You just click on the participant button down below, and on the bottom is a raise your hand function. I hope I don't lose all of you. I've been having some computer problems. Are you all with me now? Yes? So anyone who wants to say something or ask something, comment, reflection, question, please raise your hand and I will call on you and then you can unmute yourself. And Anna, can you unmute yourself, please? I think I did. Great. Yes. Yes. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I have done something very uncharacteristic of me today.

[38:37]

It was a struggle to get to that position. I had to... How do I put it? I've closed the doors onto someone that wants more from me. And it's just... And I have been very agitated about it. And then once I made the decision, I'm trying very hard to fall into trust that I am following the guidance. And when you said this without struggle, there's no progress. And it really resonated because I feel that both for myself and for this other person, there's progress to be made that in our association will not be. it's not a personal association, it's a business association, but in any case, it's just, it was really, really wonderful to tune in today and to stop because I have not been stopping for several days and I'm really, really grateful to this time, to your words.

[39:55]

Thank you. Yeah, and it's so, I'm so used to teaching ways of, you know, of being open and more positive. And even though, you know, I wrote a book recently called Seven Practices of a Mindful Leader. And two of the practices are connect to your pain and connect to the pain of others. But I've never really applied those to this issue, especially to this issue of racism and inequality. And it was striking to me that I'm writing about these things and then kind of pigeonholing them into different aspects of my life and not this one. And so, and I think this one in particular,

[41:03]

requires that we struggle on many different levels. And it doesn't mean that we don't also practice kindness and curiosity and spaciousness and love and all those things, but that we not move too quickly through the struggle. So thank you for sharing some of your struggle. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry, what is the name of your book? Seven Practices of a Mindful Leader. Of a Mindful Leader. Thank you. Yeah, and the subtitle is Lessons from Google and a Zen Monastery Kitchen. Okay. Thank you. I'm going to unmute myself. Okay, thank you. Other comments, questions, reflections? kind of invites you to, yes, looks like Michelle.

[42:09]

Can you unmute yourself? Hi, thank you, Mark. I just wanted to ask how I can, I'm having a hard time sitting in the middle of that storm that you were talking about, the thunder and the lightning that we sometimes can... have inside of us and I'm having a hard time sitting and then so I find that I don't mind sitting for Zazen when I'm calm and okay and collected but when I'm really struggling emotionally it's very it's hard to even get the kind of the motivation to just sit I don't want to distract and do as much as I can to not be that in that so what advice might you have when I am when that is what I need, but I don't want to give it to myself because it feels too difficult. I think it's, I think it's by far the best time to sit, you know, the, when you're feeling, especially when you're, that's the signal that you absolutely, you know, again, you have to listen to yourself.

[43:18]

I think, I don't want to say that sitting, it's not always right to sit, you know, I think, but from what you're saying, From what I'm hearing from you, that kind of, just that emotional, I'm hearing that you are, right, that under those emotions, even if you just stop, you know, even just stopping for a minute or two. But I have to say there's also something about, I think especially when you're feeling those strong emotions, to sit with others, to not sit alone. if you can. I've been, like what we've just did tonight, whether it's sitting tonight, or I've been really enjoying doing the morning sittings with the Zen Center online. I've been doing most mornings. And there's something I find really qualitatively different and supportive, sitting with other people.

[44:22]

And to realize that there are Most people are probably feeling that sense of, especially now, that sense of strong emotions, strong feeling, and to realize that you're not alone. Everyone, almost everyone, knows that. If they're not feeling it now, they have been or will be. It's part of the human condition and that... And again, I think so much of this practice is appreciating as much as we can the struggle, the attitude of bring it on, bring it on, as opposed to go away, push it down. I think it's like, I don't know if you're familiar with Tonglen practice. Are you, Michelle? No. So Tanglin practice is this practice of breathing in, breathing in the difficulty and pain of the world, of ourselves, and breathing out our wishes for healing and well-being and peace.

[45:39]

And it's a kind of practice. It's a bit of an advanced practice, but I think anyone can try it. But the basic assumption of it is that our hearts are so much bigger than we usually think. And our ability to stay with and transform difficult emotion is more possible than we usually think. Yeah, thank you for that question. Thank you. May? Thank you, Mark. Nice to see you again. Can you hear me? Yes. You can speak up just a little bit louder. Okay. I just go through this six weeks long drone practice.

[46:41]

And then I just learned a little bit about Tonglen. And I found myself... I am not avoiding the pain, but I just feel like there's too much distraction, you know. I think my mind, or I keep analyzing the pain. Maybe that was called inquiry, or I just, but instead of, I feel like I was being, I continue to distract myself. by analyzing, exam, the pain itself instead of, well, maybe that's the part of the process as well. Just wondering that how, you know, when you practice this long time, how any suggestions you might have? Yeah, I think that, you know, pain can be a great teacher.

[47:50]

And that it can be really useful to be really curious and to use our thinking minds, our cognitive minds, our inquiring minds. And it can also be, I think, useful sometimes to drop our inquiring minds and just feel into it. And I think both. I think both can be... I think it's like really listening deeply to which your body is calling you to do. Because it's really interesting both to feel our pain, to feel what our story is about the pain. Again, I think this is like the earliest teaching of the Buddha. is that there's no avoiding pain. And this is the first noble truth.

[48:54]

The second noble truth, in a way, is to inquire and be curious. What's the cause? What's the cause of this pain? What is it? What is it? And the third is that it's possible to transform. It's possible to transform pain, not to avoid it, not to suppress it, but to transform it again and again. So I think it's like you're doing, thank you for sharing your practice with us. Yeah, so it sounds like I am in this stage two, or just, I know I keep, I keep, I keep examined, I keep, you know, I am curious, you know, but I haven't, maybe I haven't, been to that stage about transforming yet but it's okay i'm i'm patient stage stage two second second noble truth is i think a beautiful place right because often it's easy to get caught in in you know the first noble truth and to stay too much with the pain and it's easy to get caught in the third noble truth and and not stay with it enough and be transforming it too quickly you know to going too quickly toward happiness

[50:16]

So the second is that nice, that in-between clates. I think there's a lot of growth and learning that can happen there. Thank you so much. Thank you. Anne, if you can unmute yourself. Hi, thank you for this talk. I really have so much gratitude for, you know, Zen Center and... all this stuff, you know, right in my living room. I mean, I just totally perked up what he said, transform pain, I guess. Cause you know, I've been feeling a lot of pain about, I mean, it's always about the world about, especially about COVID and all the suffering that it's causing. And then just some stuff in my personal life, you know, that happened. So, I mean, can you elaborate on that? Cause I, I'm very interested.

[51:17]

I don't understand what you're talking about. The process of transforming pain? Yeah. I think in some way it's... I think of this story that... I've heard of someone talking about noticing that how often this person's talked about reaching for his iPhone. And then he started noticing that every time if there was any sense of discomfort or any sense of something missing, he would reach for his phone. And that, and that many of us it's kind of almost it's a i think a real uh huge pattern that we generally don't like to feel any sense of discomfort or something missing or any any of that and we have many many strategies for avoiding it

[52:34]

And in this particular story that I heard this person say, and this is my, I think also resonates with my own experience a lot. He decided to see what it was like when that pain came up, when that feeling of emptiness came up to not reach for his phone, pulled over and just let all those feelings of pain, emptiness, longing, loneliness in, and just started weeping. just started weeping on the side of the road and just feeling the sense of longing and emptiness. And some time went by and there was this feeling of release and joy and acceptance that just emerged. And I think our emotions are, I think that's one example of transforming pain is to very consciously allow it, feel it, talk about it.

[53:43]

I think this is, you know, this is why I think whether it's therapy or talking to Zen teachers, there's something about expressing and sharing our pain. It seems to change it. It's like, I think this practice of Frederick Douglass of plowing the ground. So I think, I think, allowing our pain, feeling our pain, letting it in is a kind of plowing. And it's a little bit like, you know, it's like sometimes the weather is cloudy and thundering and lightning and then some, you know, then it clears and suddenly we're feeling open and acceptance and joyful or maybe just not filled with pain. you know, that it's some kind of, I think in part it's a kind of, and similar, you know, to what I was saying before about inquiring about the pain, both, you know, being curious, what's causing, what is it that's causing this pain, but also dropping into the body, and then seeing, seeing what happens, seeing, so it's not,

[54:58]

It's not forcing anything. It's not trying to make anything happen, but see how that works. Thank you. So maybe one more question, Joshua. Thank you so much for the talk. I really appreciate it. I'm trying to formulate my question. I don't think I've really done a great job of it. I just wanted to say that I found the quote from Bodhidharma really appropriate to me as I kind of begin to reform my practice here with the Sangha. And it's because of this very, I'm just, I just came out for a long medical procedure actually today, but I spent most of March and April in a medical coma. from a very rare brain disease. And I'm kind of having this experience of piecing together a very, very fragmented self and finding the sitting meditation a very interesting way to kind of unpack and recover some of the memories and experiences that were lost in that experience.

[56:18]

And I guess my question is how can I as I'm sitting in Zazen and thinking, how can I kind of, in inspecting this pain, sort of divorce myself from the desire to find something to blame in all this? Because I've been very focused on some choices that my doctor made in cutting me off medication in a very critical time that basically precipitated my stroke and coma in March. And I can't really help feeling like I want to be blaming this person for that, even though I know that in the context of her job, she made no mistake at all and there wasn't any intent to do harm. There may have been some pride in the kind of thinking of the idea that led to decisions that caused the situation. But I was just looking for some advice on how I could kind of center myself

[57:24]

in the practice and move on from that kind of useless desire to blame or fix on to something which I know is not actually the cause or the reason for my suffering. So I'll leave it there. Yeah. No, I think you've, it sounds to me like you've already done the hardest part, right? Just you. And by the way, I just want to, you know, really sorry to hear you sound like you've been through an amazing time. So I feel, feel that pain. so often blame is unconscious. I think, you know, in some way, right, even saying, you know, so much I think of racism and bias is a form of blame. Unconscious blame. And it's so liberating. It's so liberating to let go of blame. I think it's one of the most powerful things that we can do to heal ourselves and to step into our power.

[58:28]

It doesn't mean that we're not, it doesn't mean that we're not angry. It doesn't mean that we don't see, you know, decisions that people made that, you know, that we wish they had made otherwise or that to question their, we can question motives. We can see, to see as clearly as we can possibly see when things happen. when things like what you're talking about happen. But blame, as you've said, you've already given, you know, blame is extra. Blame will eat you up. And it doesn't, you know, yeah, so it's like one of the expressions I really like, and this isn't exactly fitting in what you're saying, but I'll say it anyhow, which is the expression, you know, it's not your fault, but it's your responsibility. Yeah. So even in this, right, you choosing this, you know, you chose this doctor or there's various things that you did, but it's not your fault.

[59:32]

You don't have to blame yourself or this other person. But now, okay, so now what does responsibility look like now for you? And maybe that is being angry. Maybe that is asking difficult questions, whatever that takes to take responsibility. to take your own responsibility and your own power. And I'll just add that part of coming out of the, this is a slightly different topic, but on returning to consciousness in April, I'd gone from early March into the height of the coronavirus and into this really amazing state of unrest and the desire for justice over these racial issues. And that was really profound as well. And also, The other issue is that it brings up a lot of anger because I'm just, I hate to see how kind of badly the situation is being handled and just thinking about all those people who have died or are suffering or are in a position where they might die in this poorly contained coronavirus situation.

[60:46]

And I just, I don't know what I'm trying to say, but it's very, it's been a very interesting couple months for me and I'm very happy. to have these sessions with the Zen Center and the online program. Yeah. Thank you. I really want to appreciate your vulnerability in speaking up and good luck. Well, thank you all. It's been a delight hanging out with you. I hope you will all, may the merit of whatever happened here, may this permeate and help in whatever way is possible. I wish you all. Takado, were you going to say something? Hi. Hey. Oh, I had a question, but it's a little long. I would just say that I did something a little unusual for my practice this evening. I was doing yoga as the beginning of the Dharma talk was and

[61:52]

It was really interesting to be with this Dharma offering and also to be with my body in this other way because I'm really used to sitting Zazen with the teacher who's talking with me, right? And with the Sangha, I'm really used to upholding this formal seated posture during Dharma talks. And it was interesting. You know, it was kind of fun. I mean, not like an everyday thing, but it felt good. And I feel like I was maybe able to listen in a slightly different way. So maybe an observation. Thanks. We should have tea sometime. I would love that, Mark. I really would. Oh, thank you for your talk tonight. Yeah. Thank you all very much. Be well and hope to see you again. Take care. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Mark. Thank you.

[62:49]

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