This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning. Sometimes I like to try to say at the beginning of a talk what my... intention in the talk is so that in case you can't pick it out later you have a clue so this morning you know coming coming back to Tassajara so many times I come back to Tassajara so many times in so many ways you know it's gone the beginning of the practice period and then And then I go out for the weekend, and then I go up to the city for meetings, and I come back, and I come back, and I come back.

[01:06]

And coming back again the last few times, I'm feeling the wonder of Tassajara, really how simple it is, and yet how its simplicity in a way makes it complex for us. We are so used to having our mind involved in fixing and trying to fix our problems. So the fact that our mind keeps kind of getting thwarted in that is confusing for us. And it's hard to have faith in the simplicity of what's happening. Maybe it's hard. Maybe it's not hard for you right now. Right now, it's getting colder. It seems to be getting colder.

[02:08]

We're going toward the winter. There are some of Zen Center's practice period leaders who prefer to do the winter practice period. because the trajectory is down, cold, getting colder, deeper. Whereas in the spring, in the winter practice period, what we call the winter practice period, it starts out cold, and then in February, they're like flowers. Spring comes here in February. It doesn't last, but it does come in February. And as March and April come, you know, it's... So this downward... inward maybe, trajectory is useful. But sometimes frightening, sometimes uncomfortable, sometimes we wonder if it's trustworthy.

[03:09]

Again, I use that word faith, and I think Mel was talking about it the other day. When I think of faith, maybe because of my Lutheran background, I don't like to think of faith as something that I make myself believe. I have an allergic reaction to that, having tried that for many years and unsuccessfully. Successfully, to some extent, but ultimately unsuccessfully. So I think of faith as confidence. Not confidence that we talk ourselves into. In fact, I don't think we can or trust, but not... that we talk ourselves into, but rather when we notice that we aren't trusting, that we question, is this trustworthy? And then we see, does our trust or faith grow? So if we're having difficulty with this downward, inward, coldward movement, I'm not suggesting that you buck up.

[04:20]

It's fine. It's good. Don't worry. I'm suggesting that you ask yourself and keep asking and watch as the day goes on, as the practice period goes on, as your life goes on. Is this a good thing? So with that background, I was listening this morning as we chanted the Genjo Koan and several phrases. jumped out at me. One was, when you first seek Dharma, you think you're far away from its environs, but you are already your original self. That's not quite it, but it's close. I wrote it down just for this moment. You imagine you're far away from its environs, but Dharma is already transmitted. You are immediately your original self. I think this is an encouragement to us in this downward, inward movement that what we need is actually already here.

[05:30]

That we already have innately, really, the Dharma transmitted to us. I mean, it also helps to hear it from the outside, but... Really, the Dharma is about the nature of reality. And we have that nature of reality. We're made up of it. We work, actually, the same way everything else works. So the truth of how things are and of how things can work together beneficially is already in us. We already are our original self, which is not something that we made up. It's not something that we make ourselves into. It's something that happens in the universe. A human being gets made who's like me. Or a human being gets made who's like you. So we are already that original self. And then it goes on to all that stuff about firewood and ash, which...

[06:38]

You know, they say firewood's firewood and ash is ash. And then at the end it says they're like winter and spring. You don't call winter the beginning of spring. And this morning I got this in a new way. I was like, yeah, I would not call this morning the beginning of spring. I mean, I just mentioned to you that spring was coming in February, so it does occur to me. But in my actual experience, you know, when I'm sitting in... over in that cabin trying to study for this, wrapped in a wool blanket, I don't think, oh, this is the beginning of spring. Now, this is winter, almost. This is becoming winter. So that's the Gento Cohen, you know. Firewood and Ash, your original self is like the beginning, is like winter and spring. Even though spring is embedded in winter, it's necessary to have winter to have spring.

[07:42]

And that's one of the problems with, as people will tell you who really know spring, it's one of the problems with temperate or tropical places where you don't have winter. You don't get to have spring. So even though spring is embedded in winter, and our original self is embedded in us, still we have to be there with winter as winter. We have to be with our winter self. If our winter self is what's happening right now, we have to be with the winter self. And our original self, our original face is in there. But if we start imagining it, if we start imagining what... the enlightened me will be like, it's pretty much a waste of time. And it's maybe worse than a waste of time.

[08:45]

It's a discouragement to actually being there with what's there now. It's a discouragement in terms of having the time to do it because we're off somewhere else. It's also a discouragement in terms of denigrating. What's happening now? It's saying, this couldn't be it. And we tend to feel that way. No, no, no, not this. That was a mistake. What I just did was a mistake. And therefore, it must be somebody's fault. And if I don't point out to everyone how it's the fault of something, that person or this situation, they will think it's my fault. Or I will think it's my fault. so somehow to get past this um what this delusion really it's a delusion that this is the wrong thing happening um and i don't know if it really works again to talk ourselves into that you know oh i think this is the wrong thing happening oh forget it that's

[10:01]

Maybe that's an example of how Tassajara works. Basically, you don't really have time to complete your whole story about why this is the wrong thing or the right thing. Really get your legal arguments in order because it's the next thing. So you just have to keep going to the Zendo. Just keep doing Zazen even though you did it wrong last time. You made a mistake last period. And then you can figure out what it was anyway. But there's the Han. Okay, go. Just keep going. Just keep going. Same, you know, that's Zazen. There certainly is plenty of that. But there's also like, you know, day off meals. You probably did that one wrong last time, too. And you probably haven't figured out how to do it right yet. And yet, another one is coming this week. We're going to have two, so you'll really have time to, you know, do it wrong over and over again and settle in, too.

[11:12]

Let me just see. There was one more. That was all from the Genjo koan that I wanted to bring up. I wanted to... There's a koan in the Book of Serenity, and I really want to talk about the poem. but the story is probably familiar to all of you. It's the one where the Buddha is walking with the congregation again, and he points to the ground and says, this is a good place to build a sanctuary. And then Indra, the king of the gods who just happens to be walking with him, picks up a blade of grass and sticks it in the ground and says, a sanctuary is built. And the Buddha smiles. So, you know, here we are at Tassajara. This is a really good place to build a sanctuary. A sanctuary, you know, a sacred place.

[12:13]

A place where everything matters. And also a safe place. That is a place where it's safe enough so that unsafe things can happen. You know, where it's safe enough to hang out with all these people, even though they're obviously not, you know, not totally safe. And the way we know they aren't safe is because, you know, I have responses to them. You know, they do something and those responses that I didn't want to have happen. So it's not safe in that way. It's not safe like you'll never have any responses. But it is safe enough that you can have your responses. And then the Han will start. And you just come back to the Zendo. So Tassahara is a good place to build a sanctuary.

[13:15]

And even closer, this is a good place to build a sanctuary. And this is a sanctuary that can go with us out of Tassahara. This place, this body, this mind can be a sacred place and a safe place, which is a little hard for us to believe. And again, I don't want to try to talk you into it. I just want to encourage you to that the only way we can find out is this mind safe is to try to be open to it as it actually is. And, you know, it's winter self, not imagining, well, it would be better if... Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Many, many, many things would make it better, but this is the one that we have. So to... You know, and for me, and I think for most of us, for the reason that I brought up in the beginning, that we're so used to relying on our mind, we're so used to...

[14:25]

thinking that we are supposed to think our way out of things or understand things so that they can be fixed. It's really good for me, the physicalness of Soto Zen practice and of Tasa Hara practice. And I recommend, really, if you have a doubt that some part of... this potential sanctuary, this body and mind, is actually sacred or safe to try to go at it physically, try to find it physically. Where is it in your body? Where is the tightening around it? Where do you not, where's the doubt? And which I think most of these things appear as a kind of tightening in our body, and to find that and just let it be there.

[15:31]

Sometimes when we find it, we can say, oh, it's tight. Why don't you relax? And it relaxes. Actually, that's quite wonderful. Sometimes it doesn't happen that way. Sometimes we say, why don't you relax? And it goes, no. Because I can't relax. What does relax mean? If it doesn't want to relax, then you just watch it. Probably very quickly you'll be distracted by something, but that's okay because most of these things that we have doubts about are pretty deeply ingrained. They tend to reappear over and over and over again. In fact, we tend to, mostly unconsciously, work out situations where they will definitely reappear, set up a whole story, a whole stage with actors and everything, you know, where my questionable thoughts, feelings, habits will reappear so that I can once again look at that and ask this question, is this a sanctuary?

[16:49]

Is it safe? to have this feeling? Is it safe for me? Is it safe for the world that I have this feeling? So just in case we get confused about building a sanctuary and think that, once again, it should be built in the spring, Indra picks up a blade of grass and sticks it in the ground. You know, this is a pretty simple sanctuary. This is not, you know, like big plans and doesn't take a fundraising campaign. It's not like the retreat hall. It's just like you, you know. Just put your everyday life right there and see. Is it a safe way to be? The poem... I've changed it just a little bit, but you'll find it all there if you look.

[17:52]

The 16-foot-tall golden body, a collection of virtuous qualities, casually leads him by the hand into the red dust. The boundless spring on the hundred plants, picking up what comes to hand, he uses it knowingly. Able to be master in the dust, from outside creation a guest shows up. Everywhere life is sufficient in its way, no matter if one is not as clever as others. The 16-foot-tall golden body, a collection of virtuous qualities. So usually I think this describes a Buddha. 16-foot-tall golden body, collection of virtuous qualities, sounds like a Buddha, right? I think it could also be... describing Tassahara. Tassahara, 16 foot tall golden body, a collection of virtuous qualities.

[18:54]

It could also be describing us. You know, that original face somewhere in this karmic body, the 16 foot tall golden body, a collection of virtuous qualities, casually leads him by the hand into the red dust. I love this line. And it really does make me think of Tassajara, how we sign up. A friend of mine who did several years here at Tassajara in one lecture, she raised her hand and she said, I came here to be enlightened. I had no idea I was going to have to go through all this muck. So we tend to do that, whether we called it enlightened or not. We think... I'll go to Tassajara and I'll sit quietly with myself. And then casually, Tassajara, or our karmic self, casually takes us by the hand and leads us into the red dust.

[19:59]

I think of red, the red dust, as meaning the vital dust, you know, or the... my own bloody dust. It's got each of our individual life in this dusty, common, hard-to-get-rid-of way. So this 16-foot-tall golden body, whatever it is, wherever you find it, whatever you put your... hope in, takes you by the hand and says, come on, let's go, tiptoe through the tulips. And we find ourselves in the red dust where if we are picking up what comes to hand and start to use it knowingly after some practice, you know, after

[21:05]

learning how to get up when the wake-up bell comes along and do our oreoki and walk into the zendo, you know, bow at the right places and, you know, pretty simple stuff. We can get to be experts quite soon. By next practice period, everyone here can look down on the Tongariyo students because they won't know how to do it nearly as well. Our current Tongariyo students are getting a little hard to look down on now because they've learned it all. picking up what comes to hand. He uses it knowingly, able to be master in the dust. From outside creation, a guest shows up. So as we learn how... It's a craft. It's actually a craft. Learn how to turn toward what's happening here. You know, pretty much... I don't know if all, but anyway, a lot of our learning has been about how to protect what's over here often by ignoring it, like bury it so deeply in, for instance, what's wrong over there or with what's right over there.

[22:23]

We can critique what's over there, we can hate it, or we can love it. We can keep falling in love with somebody new every day just to distract ourselves from what's over here. So to turn that turning around, turn the light around and actually find the craft of coming back to here, while still being a master in the dust, while still taking care of, knowingly use what comes to hand, and yet with the craft of coming back to find the place where... sanctuary is you know how to come back to the particular sanctuary that I have so I can get to know what's happening here is this trustworthy so able to be master in the dust turning back toward this potential sanctuary out from outside creation a guest appears

[23:32]

I think this means this is not something that we make. I don't think of it as exactly outside of all of creation. It's more like outside of my creation. It's not something that I will make myself into or make another person into or make the situation into. It does come, I believe, still from dependent co-arising. I'm part of it. You're part of it. But who would ever think it could happen? Who dreamed up the next moment? Instead, together, without knowing how, we and the tilt of the earth and the way it goes around the sun. the way the clouds come and give us rain or snow, and the way the leaves fall off the tree, and the way that other person walks down the path, and make the next moment.

[24:39]

So the next guest shows up, our next potential visitor to our sanctuary, where we might have another response, which might, again, we might think, Oh, no, you know, there it is again. That old feeling. Now I have a different old feeling, or I have the same old feeling. There it is, another chance to build a sanctuary. You know, plant a piece of grass. Take that piece of grass that's just arisen and say, this is a sanctuary. Everywhere life is sufficient as it is, no matter if one is not as clever as others. That's pretty self-explanatory, I think. No matter who we are, no matter what we are, this practice of attention to what is with a

[25:58]

with an open heart and a questioning mind, I think is essential. Otherwise, we're just making up stories. We're just making up stories and then trying to convince ourselves and others of them. So to let those stories go, which, you know, letting things go does not mean they necessarily go away. We let them go, and they either go or they don't, but still... to find that craft of turning our attention back to this question, this what needs to be open-hearted, opened, heart-opened to, or something, over here. And then, is it a sanctuary? Is it sacred? Does it fit? Does it somehow fit in the universe, our feeling that maybe I'm wrong, maybe... I'm the wrong person or this part of me is no good and somehow I should find a way to amputate it.

[27:02]

Not very good. We're not that good as surgeons. So this having instead an open heart and a settled mind and body to see, you know, is this, is it true? Is it true that my original face is already here? Dharma is already correctly transmitted somehow to this one. So do you have any thoughts, questions, Merrill? So Dogen, with his shingi and his standards and his shrill denunciations of enemies and his brilliance, called his life one continuous mistake. So how are we supposed to interpret that? Is that... a statement about everybody's reality, or is that a statement of despair, or what is that?

[28:04]

You know, I don't know what it was for Dogen. So I can just give you my interpretation of my life as one continuous mistake. Do you want to hear that, or do you want to keep looking for Dogen? Grit for gossip. Gossip? Well, I wasn't going to tell you about the mistakes. If you want to hear about that, you'll have to ask a more specific question. But... Yeah, so I don't know what state of mind Dogen was in at that time, and I haven't read the text surrounding it, but certainly we all do make a lot of what would conventionally be called mistakes. You know, they cause ourselves and others... pain, which seems like it should be a mistake. I've been shocked sometimes by how things that I would call big mistakes have worked.

[29:15]

And I'm lucky enough to talk to a lot of people, so I sometimes see it with other people's lives, too, how, you know, someone, for instance, someone will come to me and say, I just, you know, I blew up at this person. I, you know, it was terrible, I knew, but they drive me nuts, and I'm, you know, I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to do it, but, and then, you know, the other person will come and talk to me, and they're like, this person blew up at me, and suddenly I saw. Blah, blah, blah. I saw what I do with that. So we can't go around trying to give people enlightenment experiences in this way. That really isn't fair and isn't a good thing. But we are pretty tied to each other. And we often need our, what should we call them, our hindrances, our tangles to become manifest.

[30:18]

for us to, I don't know, for them to disentangle. It's like they need to happen, it appears to me. Of course, the most painful ones are the ones with the people closest to us. And they're not like simple little things. They aren't like, I blew up at this person, and that was it. That's my relationship with him. I blew up with him. Now I go back and apologize to them. And then maybe we meet again next practice period on the serving crew or something. It's like people who we're bound with, and it gets really complicated. But I still think the same. If we can... you know I said this a lot in the summer if we can take a stable physical position sitting standing walking or lying down try to turn our attention back to our body mind and find the place where the where the contraction is happening and try to stay with it now of course sometime that

[31:37]

you know that sounds like a kind of quiet moment right and sometimes we're in the middle of not quiet moments still if we try to do that in a quiet moment and we learn that that action we find ourselves doing it more even in the midst of interactions and it has an impact on our action and outside of our idea outside of creation outside of our idea of how I should behave in a situation a guest shows up. Somebody, I, you, do something slightly different this time. Go ahead. You're skeptical, I believe. What you describe, you know, certainly has been my experience in the practice community. And it's the wonderful probably the most important feature for me in Sangha.

[32:43]

But mistakes in the world of red dust can have a very long shelf life. Yes. A mistake here that will just kind of dissipate in a day can last for years. Yes. This is hard to bear. Yes, it is. And sometimes there's nothing we can do about it. All we can do, really, maybe there's... All we can ever do is do the work here. Be with the contraction here as deeply as we can. We think we need to get the names of it. Like, well, is it fear or is it... But I don't think we do. We like that. But I think it's really just settling. It's just settling into this being.

[33:46]

And we're tied to those people. We don't know exactly what their karma is. We don't know if they have to do this letting go in some other lifetime. You know, it's really, really sad, especially if the people are important to us. But still, in this body-mind, can I actually accept what's happening over here? Thanks. Is there anybody else? Jerry. Yes, take.

[34:52]

Yes. [...] In fact, you can be sure that it is. In fact, Suzuki Roshi said, channeling him instead of Dogen for the moment. You can't not do anything. You can. The fixing we can do. Suzuki Roshi said, big mind is knowing that we only have small mind. It's knowing that I can only see from my perspective. only see from my perspective it's not the whole picture and you know if I actually know that then when I see oh that person did something you know that's wrong you know I go to them I don't you know if I really know that I might ask them what happened you know because they have a whole other story believe me they do

[36:04]

You know, sometimes that's not our job, but even if it's our job to, like, watch and, you know, tell people how to, it's good to have that attitude. I mean, sometimes it's so simple. You just say, you know, you put your hands in a shot shoot now. I don't really care what you think happened. But if you've got the attitude that I don't care what you think, that comes across. So if it's just, you know, this is it, and, you know. But in more complicated things, it's really good to remember and actually ask people But you're right. In this lifetime, the moments of enlightenment where we might actually not be deluded about how separate we are and many things are very, very, very rare. So we can pretty much assume I have a very limited view. Thank you. Alison. you know we do things wrong or don't do things if you know if we really can if we can understand ourselves

[37:39]

I think we will see that we do those things because we didn't know really how to do things better. I mean, we may have imagined a better way to do it, but actually we couldn't get there. And if we can understand ourselves to that depth, then we'll understand other people too, because other people are doing the same thing. they're they're not able to do things or they have to you know create a diversion or which can be a number of different things so in a way shame is just like any other of these feelings like you just settle down with it and you let yourself feel it not as the truth but also not as something that's wrong. So that line, that really narrow knife's edge between I shouldn't be feeling this way and this is the right way to feel.

[38:47]

It's the dependently co-arisen way things are right now. That's the way I am right now. And it's dependently co-arisen. It changes. It's not stuck. Sometimes you feel that way, sometimes you don't. I think we have, most of us, kind of habitual feelings. It may just be like a chemical. You know, like we have some chemicals in our body and it makes this feeling, whatever it is, and then we have these life situations which make it keep happening. So most of us have probably several chemicals unpleasant feelings which happen to us over and over and over again, and we really don't want to have them. So we, as they start to happen, we divert from them. And one of the ways that we divert from them is we go into a story that actually is talking about them. And in some ways it makes the feeling more, actually, but still it's a little diversion.

[39:52]

One thing, it makes us feel like if I could just figure it out, I could get rid of this feeling. So if you can just... Just put yourself in a stable posture, try to find it, and just let it be there and find out, can you live with having a feeling of shame, which is a feeling, but it isn't necessarily the title of your life. It's not the truth. It's just a feeling. And then it doesn't block you from actually understanding who you are. Yes? But also, on the other hand, I feel like the regret and the loss and the sadness that I have in my life, I feel like it would be really difficult for me to be able to live with it without having a place for it kind of in my mind, in my life.

[41:11]

And part of finding a place for these things, for me, is time to I'm trying to figure it out. Trying to not just recycle the story, but trying to retell the story in some way that I can go with it. Well, we do have minds, and they want to be involved, and they will be involved. They're not just going to sit on the shelf. So it's good to have them involved in an intelligent and practiceful way. So that's why there is Dharma, verbal Dharma, written Dharma, is because it's not

[42:17]

really for our body it's for our mind something like zazen is for our body mind but words are for our mind so yes i do the same thing and but it's tricky you know because it's very uh addictive and we we have this certainty really that our thinking is the way to get to the bottom of things So be careful. Curtis. I have a question about accepting situations and doing the work over here. Yes. It seems to me that there is a spectrum of things. Like if I'm told to chop carrots and I really want to chop celery, then maybe putting a whole lot of effort into something where I could manipulate the situation so that I actually chop celery might be not that useful. On the other end of the spectrum, somebody who's in a abusive relationship is in a dangerous situation.

[43:25]

Yes. Going accepting punch after punch, week after week, is also not right. And yet on that spectrum, it's my experience that there are lots of things that are deceptively urgent. Yes. Also some things that are actually urgent and don't look like. Yes, are we, yeah. that need to actually put effort into a situation. Yes, yeah. Thank you for bringing that up, because I do sometimes sound like, you know, what do you call it, quietism or something, you know, like passivity. And as I've said before, I think there is no way for us to be passive. You know, we are active. Not doing something is doing something. Staying in an abusive situation is doing something. It's not passive. So to settle doesn't mean we don't do anything. We do do things, and sometimes it's really right to walk away or run away or other things, too.

[44:35]

How do we know? That cannot be said. Guest outside creation. It's everything coming together. It's you settle as best you can. And sometimes it's got to happen like that. It's not you settle and then you think, should I pull that child out from in front of that truck or not? Is this one of those times? And often it's not our mind. A lot of the question is, can I trust? My life force. You know, and as you say, no, sometimes not. You know, sometimes my life force appears to be saying, celery, celery, celery. But still, if we like open our mind and look at it openheartedly, we probably know this is a little, you know, something else is going on here if I'm that against carrots, you know.

[45:41]

So, yeah, it's, there's not. like an easy answer to that. I don't think we just take the next step. Shogun? When you asked the question about the sanctuary, is there a sanctuary? And I heard you sort of caution against a certain kind of faith. And I wonder, sometimes for me, it's more about asking. Maybe I have this, what I would call faith, that there is a sanctuary here. And I might ask, where is the sanctuary in this? Here at Tassar in particular, you mean, or in you? In this experience, you might feel unsafe. Yes. Unbearably painful, uncomfortable. Yeah. Where is the sanctuary? Yeah. You know, often...

[46:41]

I don't know if this happens for you, but for me, when it's feeling unbearably uncomfortable, or unbearably, you know, it's not really unbearable or something else would happen, but, you know, I often think, what can I do? You know, like, I shouldn't feel this way is the background kind of reason. What can I do about this? And nowadays, when I hear myself saying it, it's that tone, the answer is nothing. Don't do anything. Find the sanctuary is here. It's like things are happening. Feelings are happening. My story about them is driving me crazy, really. What do I do? I essentially do zazen. You know, you can't always sit down and cross your legs, but that mode, like, okay, just do, walk carefully, do the next thing, stay close.

[47:50]

Things are in process, even though they might seem stuck. And if we, you know, are normal, and that doesn't mean that we won't be doing anything. You know, we just won't have a plan. We'll just be walking, trying to be open to this person without protecting it, with what's really happening here, and then someone will appear in front of us, and we'll have an interaction. So is that a safe place to have an interaction from? That's the question. Was that a beneficial interaction? That's the question. The answer may not be simple, or it might be. It might be really simple. Wow, that was, if I was doing my normal thing, I would have done this, and I didn't do that. Mimi and Conan.

[48:54]

Mimi. I think what you're pointing to is really right, and it is what happens.

[50:08]

So if we are settled, we have sensory equipment, then we do notice. Most of the time, we aren't, or not most of the time, but in our prior lives. We weren't settled, and basically we go in with such a strong story, like this person is like this, and kind of no matter what they do, the story is being ratified, right? So if we're not doing that, if we manage to have a crack in our certainty and just be there a little more for the story, change is one of the big things that we notice. Change in the person, change in ourself, change in our reactions. And this is a miracle. For instance, about our own things, oh, it wasn't quite the same this time. It isn't just like this block of whatever karma that will never move. It actually moved a little bit.

[51:10]

Yeah, so I think we do do that for each other. Sometimes it feels a little messier than that, but it's part of what's happening. Thank you. Connie. I don't know. Could you describe more? of a blade of grass appears. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[52:17]

Yes. And the unconstructed realm is creating it and re-showing. Yes. Is that what Tozan's saying? If he is, yes, then I agree. then yes. Thank you. Maybe that's enough for today. Is there anybody else that has a burning something? Yes, Adam. Not burning, but entertaining. Yes. Yes. being able to fearlessly say that any situation that occurs in the mind, including the emotions, is a workable situation. And I wonder if it makes sense to the way I'm thinking about it, that given that everything is a miracle and given that no matter what happens is a workable situation, there's really no terribleness and there's really no need for a sanctuary.

[53:27]

Well, you can say there's no need for a sanctuary or everything is a sanctuary. yeah and of course we it we most of us experience some things as terrible and with that if we have an experience of a terrible thing as workable it increases our faith that maybe this is the case so if we can stay through a terrible thing and actually see the change and see how it was workable it was part of the working of that situation then the next time a feeling of a terrible thing happens maybe we will have the presence of mind to say stay you know just stay with this just let this karmic thing happen which might include running you know as fast as you can in the other direction as a workable thing and maybe eventually like Trump will be able to say everything is workable no matter what state of mind most of us aren't quite there yet but but we're somewhere along the continuum thank you thank you all very much

[54:54]

For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

[55:15]

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