i used sanga the earliest nuns order how many of you haven't reported yet is that none follow and actually read some of them and fisher that's really what i wanted to get to genetic been immersing myself and death finally
it really fascinating so
that was what i had in mind for tonight so look let's start with gravy yum
maybe we can divide the group for people report tonight and see how they go from then you know i wish i could remember which are the ones we haven't given out yet maybe at the end we can assign for next week case who who'd like to stay
and for a tree
i read about on the party
so
her origins are supernatural use for ten years and board and the foot of a mango tree and the saw the discussing this the islamic and her name means mangrove edge protectors protect your protectors of nato's
was so beautiful that princes bot over her
can we do this place we don't think that's what i can no doubt
man because you're out the data was taken
but i would like to hear why didn't you just say we did hear about her story
what your reaction to volunteer to sutra know oh go ahead come together
that's the same where buddha and bunks are assembled in the jet on a rope which was actually our hobbies grow am of major group and suffer
so that she has a role and the utc
and the way that i have a little note that the story of the princess fighting over her computer for she gets even think of helen for
i was one personal reaction may have
the action
cheap
a renovated be happy that she have been recorded
the and they're all these other ancestors and how i felt like it was very empowering forward
women are usually on really disempowering position is hiding
they are able to come into the time and be on features you know and of
oh and i'm happening in the bible i think jesus no kept company with prostitutes and quarters of mary magdalen know man i know so
i'm like to some parallel day
the poem produce you who weren't here next week is a long poem and
there was some reaction to the poem in this group and i
ah it basically is an extended meditation on the dissolution of the body from a conventional feminine perspective all the different parts that
fall away for and change and
so there was a different reaction to that and
i was wondering what you're feeling was about you know if you know what styles i i copy john's can go in as an example and it was the one about the boys that one really really touch to get together and well yeah i had a sweet voice like a cuckoo women in the get now crack and have him you can hear my age
in it gives us the teaching of one who speaks truth
that when touching particular period
why
even which i think our
you know broadening our acceptance of
you know all these beautiful
you know that we we do come from a culture that that worships you in particular western culture and
and the am and doesn't honor age as we know our old people are shunted aside and institutional said settings often and
yeah i was reading about i think imaginations and it funny electric couple about cosmetic surgery and paced lives and the enormous industry of not allowing ourselves to
actually fall apart you know and here's this long as a courtesan where she you that was her
her livelihood basically with her body and then to watch it and to actually felt there was some humor in but the main thing was this extended looking at the details of about what falls apart and and if there's attach comparing
so
a current changes mean a member of the royal court courtesan the has the connotation of being more like a concert or a very high
what the game and call girl you know like a very elevated like a geisha or something where you're very well trained and educated perhaps and maybe being an artist and musician but still your
proud of what your job is to have get and sexual favors can give her coffin that's my understanding of kurdish and rather than member of the court
pink you man
yeah
they are
how was your experience or putting in the line a great woman ancestors false before on the pi and of
the first thing i noticed when i opened the book to this section there was actually a section or chapter on prostitutes courtesans and beautiful women and know
that a little note that i in the beginning of the chapter an early buddhism it was
one must pass through the world of samsara or river of seduction of women in order to reach the place where desire for phishing no longer exists it's almost a direct quote them
the also in early buddhist art of the women were often depicted as sensuous delight and fighting they would not be the opposite of richard hanson
and that i know not to say that they're actually really a shadow of one another one
i thought i that those
let's see
the
the name of about it
name of an indian guy
the ruler of serpents and autumn about it was from eugenie shoes are now for a beauty and work as a as invested as a prostitute and she
king bizarre was was kind of a big came that i think you also get involved with papalia on
and she or he he he sent for her he said for he'd been bizarre for for the me
and
actually a spirit was contrary to carry the authority jenny
do so
david their business and gothenburg he became pregnant with sorry that
if the child were a son that he should you said to the palace and be raised
so sure now of the child was the son and instead he was sent to the palace and son became a monk
and
okay
in the first stanza i'm writing commons actually heating buyers and sellers son which i hate this last june and are are common stories is that her son was actually one who rather teaching her
this been occasion the down
the first gonzo's the heating and for
get your writer or some
in the second stanza is where from
announcing the relationship game or anything to snatch and
he will

so
premises is his first on the six out of about his son mother from the hair of your head of from the air of the head down and the souls of feet up look at the stadium sticking body
padmavati the response thinking like this rooted up as i can converting cleaver and and i have quenched
ah
the department is quite abrupt they
and
it's just interesting the way that in the palm that the the meditation and the thirty two part of body and presented look at this dirty stinking body do not i guess that's one way is it
a
but
but she did you took a look at this your instinct body thinking like this wound up there in other words
realizing that it's you know it's it's it's for innocence this is what it is and and alex falling apart i don't know i'm leah articulating what i mean to say
so other skip over that
but i thought it was really interesting that in a couple of these stories than the teaching was given to the mother by the sun
i have mixed feelings about that one feelings on the bell the sun effect that night and then the other feeling was it it all seemed like the story they're saying that these women
that unable to reach
ah
to reach the garmin without the help of a man and without the help your son
in education

it and brought up the
these thoughts that i still some tax hall at them
there's a lot of asia are included
at least not necessarily in reason but in the stories
and hands
i still feel better wanting to
push away from these stories because
yeah

pink
just to come in about thirty two page for body to entrance a conditional meditation and the thirty two percent i tried to memorize can run here to the hand here's the body
pete tears by the i mean they're all the all the different parts and lens see new blood urine feces you know you you kind of and when you divide up the binary that when and as of meditation the the m
the
i'm practice is to handsome it
he catch bin from your own precious body that you protect and fight against him and fate other people about in so
and of course you probably know that there are medications that took place in charnel grounds with because the bodies were left out that necessarily berry they were left out for the jackals and now
all the animals
or they were burned but anyway there was this practice of going to the channel ground and watching
in meditation the decomposition of or not what happens to a body as it changes after death and then finally decomposed until it's just moments you know so these are very m
ah strong practices and not for everyone there are not necessarily
given as meditation objects for every everyone but they were thought to be very efficacious in having some detachment nearby so he said it starts out with is that they had that comes instead the medications stands out with hairs
there here's the body
keith the anyway
so it's it's it's an ancient practice
and when they say dirty and stinky you know i think of it it less as a moral kind of as just
i've been the amount of products they are sold for to keep us cream and not smelling or smelling like flowers or something it's incredible right i mean this sowie
if you spend the time
looking at the actual how this body is you know
you may also say it very but without much charge but dirty and thinking you might say that to keep the body clean
we have to bathe daily meaning
pretty much right not that all countries are able to write better
pretty soon in these
your body gets it needs attention you know needs a lot of care all the time so but we tend to forget about that and of course with these nuns and monks p m the the vow of celibacy made these kinds of practices a lot of these came about in for cell
but monks and nuns in hot countries you know where
ah
that's a quote from dr cancer cell but he said silva monks in hot countries a lot of these rules and things and meditation objects were put forth because ah
these were the difficulties that people had and keeping their wow so
i think with our sensibility from the year two thousand and we are we don't have such a feel for it is how how it worked necessarily in the lives of these people back then
in what do you mean by the mediterranean on the home and every bar when they would meditate on the body was divided up into thirty two different parts so one is hairs of the head and then there's a
there's this description of the hair that they put their head pushing out of the scalp you know like extruding
waste products that are made into here that come out of the you notes instead of thinking of oh that my crowning glory you know beautiful hair waving in the wind you know they actually want you to look at what it actually is you know going to just focus yeah there's a particular
you know formula of how to meditate on it but and then hairs of body you know here what is your body will get these hairs that come out you know
we don't really spend time in that kind of meditation were either our bleaching or depilatory in or removing or permanent thing or waving a cutting
taking care of my hair in certain ways but we're not necessarily
and
really looking at what harry is what he is hair anyway so they describe at his waste products that are being extruded through your pores you know it's like that
you know i never really thought about it that way different visit our good
well
what she said about think in cuba the yahoo geek to sounds like she like pushing it away
still accepted her been so it doesn't end what you say now about the here it's like garbage have to find some emotional over by doesn't sound
i think we have to be very careful about that
because
ah
i think our job is accepting completely who we are exactly how oh yeah but offered we have a conception of how how we are or a fantasy or a story and this is like to get very close to actually what's going on and completely accept not just the story of who we are
so
ah
i think what happens is we often these early kinds of meditations we we often it with our sensibilities have a kind of
there's more poems in your like that where we don't like it actually because it looks like that exactly like they're trying to one
and there may have been some some aspect of it to try to dissociate from rather than fully accept
i think it's hard to tell
you know some of the
you will get a think it's not that good
it's the to gather
yeah except think it's a kind of balancing thing you know
yeah he think on one i think i remember reading that into the
how amelia is different you get to know
often times
the maternal practice the lungs were observing dead women is permanently has a very little contact living women that it has a practice to there were no wonder how that
i'm i'm gonna give up that like gets it
john
relationship and
oh well there's a book called charming cadavers your which i have a copy of the
that their talks about this that this is part of the m
ah
andrew centric nature the mail century where
and dogan refute this which is very interesting where
in in the patriarchy your andhra centric meaning male centric the woman is seen as or can be seen as one of the roles she's caspian as the tempter or the the evil one like eve for some good news causing all this trouble rather than one's own desire the object
the desire whether it's male or female it doesn't matter if one's own desire so
and dogan talks about this it's it doesn't have anything to do with women if it if all women
or whatever your object of desire for women if it's manner for minutes men women and swim with whatever the object is that's not than all the world would be cast as some evil thing know the desire is within you that's where you look but but anyway
i think there was a tradition of
i'm not totally but you can find in the buddhist tradition women cast as
the temptress and the evil one and and and remarks about their bodies terrible terrible max you can find in the in scripture in these practices so my theory but but that and this is kind of a feminist perspective is that
you know
we want to have a usable past you know so if there were
certain practices in certain cultural situation by certain people it's like that their problem you know it's i can't use that i can't use that for my own
practice or my own understanding of buddha dharma bets
so i'm not going to study that particular way so you can let it go because there's other things that are in the tradition as well i do think that monks had contact with lay women and the nuns also in certain formal situations especially baking lay women so but
actual
you know love making your physical contact like that was prohibited right so
let's move on if if a person more yeah it just want to make a quick comment picking up target yeah i was just browsing through one of the books of tokens chemicals and i came across the classical right i took a swing which i just want to mention read had talked about that a few
you in early july which is prostrating to the attainment of the marrow and he only talked about the title i'm just and the beauty relating it to our opening chat to lot
but i wanted to mention i just happened to be looking at it and it's a feminist treatise about and you know to respect women who attain the way as abbess scissors advices or whatever position that there's no reason why women shouldn't be totally respected as enlightened beings
things and i just thought it was really astonishing and wonderful to discover that he was a feminist and putting forth these wonderful documents to support women maintaining away and to respect and bout of their feet and you know completely fallen women who you know between the way
this particular festival was the one that suits your she wrote his thesis on in college which i've been trying to get a copy of pieces i don't think he brought up this aspect of it so much but down
in that fesco the dove and there's a a literally a diatribe against the the ignorant people who don't let nuns for example go on sacred ground or go to these temples and ten date temples
so i can maybe bring copies of it because it's when i came upon it i was so happy cause it was right in our lineage that this was how do we didn't have to make any apologies for go and he actually puts it out there that the dharma you revere one who has the who knows the dharma doesn't
matter about gender so i'll bring your copy you can i've your own copy
so let's see who else would like ten years i was given to serve a chai had a palm pilot up another okay can see her
yes call him
she's a nice for famous general and he converted to buddhism the buddha
initially remains lines
she grew up in the salary after hearing loose
one day she entered the nuns answer
and then the next seven years
sincerely buddhist path but this is a quote
without a without having it in peace of mind it time so i had a plan despair she soon
i went to the forest with road
and that in guy and now
philip that was a deep religious experience and begin drilling
her breakthrough head an element of peace family of the body like be perfect
terry
obsessed by spirituality and never got to the origin but i i was agitated by buying then throw a dreamed of great happiness i was passionate than had no peace and then i wandered seven years unhappy day night and then to provoke into the forest rather go back to than their own

the that's very ordinary
i feel like it related to that
anyway yeah this kind grown girls and schedule your tribe
hey
have you to feel that a suicide attempt her
everyone philadelphia that
that's interesting
you know story behind
said very ordinary life
no name violence
having a computer
they realize i'm lumping having to do
the think that
so when at one just had the poem which was the one that see how to pisa pisa and
you said you chose one that it was
did you do too
oh so that was just use so there's also another we don't know those two guys did that we'll see how yeah it hurts because i'm too so i that's what you want to read the the poll of t-shirt essential yeah
tisa practice practice dylan edwards overwhelm you prefer ties they've never world of systems
the greatest rank
i have a little bit from tisa
you can visit with it but this is something someone made a just a little little paragraph each one she's from capital of us to a shocking family part of the buddhist harem she renounced with prajapati practice insight it became our have when the buddha appeared as a ray of light
you know i harem me
well
i think it means what we think it means the buddha head concerts you know he had em
many
women who were at his disposal i guess lived and i guess different rulers had to
you know women who are part of the household that were not necessarily minds
here's how i think that know and as with a sexual content and definitely yeah yeah but i guess not in imprudence
buddhists and like exam i think maybe show when they were dancing you know there's the story of and
his great leave taking where he sees the harem sleeping on these women asleep and their this is one of the m
it's you see it in art where there these women from the harem date who are dancers and musicians and sofa and they're have all fallen asleep and they're just like sleeping people do there
ah you know snoring probably have been drooling and whatever else we do doing it oh they snap very charming you know and he and sort of disheveled and and he sees this and can of sees their in these attitudes of
you know they don't look so alluring anymore
actually there's one of these precepts about not having monks and nuns nuns not sleeping in the homes of lay people because
for their own protection because the lay people than see them in these attitudes of dishevelment him in a you
i'm not in mindful taking care of themselves and and this is not very encouraging sometimes and the lay people complained to the buddha and he said that made it a precept one of these precepts that you're not to sleep overnight and lay person's house
so anyway i think
i think
those women were yeah came with
that it was a privilege probably that but didn't he take thousand songs or this is before not over a shockingly altima that he didn't ever hear him afterwards
you know this because before he has leave taken before he left his primary we actually said recruiter when we know about failure the cape you get when you're younger
and everybody can shocking when the
go to monday's so everyone else with sell yeah
the happiness so little kenya
you know celibacy was a big was you know the parameters the people like the purity living by for purity as they call it the pure life was a major factor that set them aside from the lapd that
as is the same in catholicism in the i just didn't act as a metaphor or something
well from what we know our precepts and all that were set down for the for the orders or who were living they were
imitating the life of the buddha shakyamuni buddha that's what their life was him yeah
can it to one more
yes
yes

i call him
what will say me you

she
yeah
she she'll she grew up
and a wife and lafayette
man
then
you can look at the book it's okay

surfing
like
her family

yeah not not a very
i guess
eventually she
to me too
and
and
and now
and her home
re i'm
when i need and
when cooking healthy and from birth and death trap
and
morgan
re
sounds like something but it's also like
in and is that sentiment like hamilton that like have been married
like being at work or it is like guy like on
this situation
i mean
know
you think that was one of the main things about the the order of nuns is that it gave women this other avenue they only have it was just marriage and having kids that was the only thing that was of value in society
and here's this whole other
then you could do they didn't include being under your has been father family and you could educate yourself you could practice you can wander you could you were read it and i could really
well i bet that really yeah
really brings it out the product move yes well
written in the way
failure
no one else where were eight a picnic and of traffic and think him why aren't you a closely now vietnam
he
it does work to be a family
it's and
that is something they son
yeah three hundred you've them
one
i go
you can do
recently a husband you can also change the rule
and then had to them
nothing
will be
i think the fact that people voluntarily said i wanna do this you know so it was rather than it being imposed they voluntarily joined and committed themselves and as we know or hopefully even we have a taste of here like in practice period for example when we fall the
schedule and it's very you know somebody from outside with where do you mean you feel free and relaxed and happy you know or you don't necessarily feel that all the time but that
the the freedom what we usually think of freedom is doing whatever we want whenever we want that's how are the kind of regular old western individualistic sense of freedom i'm free i can go here they're doing over a lot but actually unless we have
unless we are eternally free bad doing everything going and doing when everyone is just being pushed around by our habits propensities route nice thinking fears greed hate delusion that's what we're doing that's where running off doing we're going over here
here to be sure we don't get some happening over here and we're eating this because it's not free it's it's being completely subsumed with
so
so then you give someone will have about doing this this this myth and you get to you begin to work with your habitual way of doing things and you see i'm free i don't have to eat five piece of chocolate cake i can actually say no thank you know that's freedom but
by piece chocolate cake but you know i mean
to be able to decipher became a about what you want to do because it's a benefit it's out of clarity and com and what is a what's not harming rather than what we and that may mean anyway we can find out about that often
by having by being by going into the bamboo to which is
what we talk about his practice create where you could learn about these tendencies and propensities and let go of them so that's real freedom so you take on these
these various
guidelines or rules and you find out about what's real freedom
and and make talk about
so that's one aspect of these chilly switching to this time
he
so this particular book sisters in solitude yeah some
a translation of
ah the prouty moksha
dick sunni between yoga for announced that and the big shoes over monks and this is the pretty moksha big sunni pretty moksha sutra prouty moksha means
conducive deliberation
prouty moksha and it if there's the buddhist can under the buddhist literature is divided into what they call three baskets there's the sutra basket all the suitors are in the sutra basket and there's no vinny up ask and vi and a way or vinaya it could be me a basket
and then there's the avi dharma basket so these these are just how it become baskets how they divide it and in lavinia is the prairie moksha meaning these rules for the nuns and monks order as well as also in lavinia our vast choose which are the basis of training their stories about how
these rules came to be what happened so that the buddha said such and such and then that became a rule so these are these are called superior's pretty moksha sutras and they were
but but they're not in the sutra basket there in the vinny a basket in the vimeo has all these guidelines and rules so
i'm
ah the buddhist teaching broke into eighteen different schools in india and those eighteen different schools all had their own party moksha as the i had their own sutra about what the guidelines were that were slightly different and
the young
the to that are translated here are the dharma gupta
and the moolah service to vada and the dharma gupta
pretty much sure that particular one was translated into chinese
so you you took this
probably sanskrit original text of which we don't have a company anymore and it was translated into chinese and then will serve as to and one was translated into tibet and so there to of strands of big sunni guidelines
now the chinese one the dharma group to one is the most is an active alive
ah the victory order is still alive in china china korea and vietnam all have this dharma gupta
hum sutra and in tibet the ah
this bullis or master bottom
they've never had a big shiny order the order never got to bit and they felt that it was possibly because in the other hand but himalayas molly were too difficult to cross and that the i'm the nuns in order to ordain more nuns you need to have a sanga nuns
that means no less than five nuns and you need to have a preceptor who's been a preceptor for twelve years at least so that's you need those conditions in order to pass on and start a new order and that never happened in tibet
but it happened in other countries in
during king a show-cause time which is about three hundred years after the buddha
guide king ashoka in india was a buddhist king and he sent missionaries out including his son mahinda so he sent him to sri lanka
and he preached the dharma there and the sister in law to the chemo sri lanka became upon hearing the buddhist word became a stream enter meaning she
i think you're familiar with stream venturer never return or and once return her in our hut
so she entered the stream and became a buddhist follower and wanted to be ordain and so he said will ask your brother not lawyer the king of
sri lanka to ask king ashoka in india to send be nice because i can't or they new it needs the big sunni sanga and king ashoka daughter was also a nun she was a terry she taught and so he sent for her and five dick shootings and they came to sri lanka and so the sri lankan
picture any order was started in nightgown three hundred
b he
ah and so that order got started thailand never gotta be shooting order and
let's see
burma cambodia indonesia
sri lanka and thailand all had beach i had
the mail order but did not get a female or sri lanka did but then it was destroyed
later on so the ones that that lasted where the the ones that went into china korea vietnam and ah
and they're still active today they're still and now it's growing
throughout the
asia there's an especially with karma election so much she wants to have a universal big should be sanga throughout you know re-establish the big should be sagas in these places where they haven't where they either died out and wasn't transmitted so
now just to give you have a background on her she received in korea and china and taiwan the be shooting order
a chic she's now member of the beach unni order the fully ordained as are many other tibetan westerners who were ordained in the tibetan tradition they have a nun's order but it's a novice it's not a full same an interview in thailand they have a novice meaning they take ten precepts but when you're a novice with you forever another
this you don't receive
the donations the laity do not think of you as being objects and merit so they don't give to you you're not educated because you're not fully ordained so
women's
that and and the m
that we talked about the eight special rules kind of contributed to women's place being not equal to not impurity with so
the this is the first english translation full of these of the sutras of the the rules
ib horner who is from the politics society in that early
nineteen hundreds did parts of it but not the full so this is the first english translation and there's introductory vs to encourage you to to practice these and to exhort and encourage that the nuns to practice them and then why it's you know they talk about why it's wonderful to practice these
and then at the end there's concluding vs so
the these
these have enormous interest for sociological historically these are these were legal they had a legal side to them because if you didn't follow the guidelines in the rules than it included in these documents were what were the consequences and how that was adjudicate
or how that was resolved within the sun so the sanger was
kind of judge and jury for each other and also
so there was that aspect of it there was how do you live in harmony with all these different people from different walks of life as you know very well from living in community it's sometimes hard to get along is in a read some of these were
for regular people just like we all are regular people and things that the occasions for making rules had to do with
behavior of these people that's the rules did not come ready made from the buddha there were no rules you just practice the buddhist had come monk come none practice with me we're going to eat in this way we're in it and then things would happen and then a rule would be made so they're very circumstantially brought about
oh isn't that our personal cars are in the really want the rules and circumstances from yeah i think suzuki roshi well there were certain things this
but yes we didn't have
it was pretty open you know people at you've probably heard stories you know people are a good as as or maybe maybe not paid
he was very loose and suzuki or she didn't come from that kind of tradition but he didn't
he didn't set it all out it was he was very open well let's see how this all goes and then it became very clear that you know there is problems it was disharmony
having mixed bathing which we did have at that time i actually it was before my time but it was just the bass and it was just open you just men and women just bathed together and there were problems you know that came out of their people were not comfortable with that so so we said there will be man's back and women's bath you know that
didn't take away all the problems but a lot of problems were addressed by that and then
you know we have a requirement that you go to the zendo that's why you're down here if you don't want of the maybe you should be here you know so then who's not the zendo them there was taken in and so on and so for so they were all built from circumstances exactly many of these when you when you read them you say oh this is exactly what's going on now i'll read one to you
where i know of an instance that was exactly the same and the
we didn't have a rule spa's specifying a but the rule was actually down there because this kind of thing happens with human in human interactions
so
so it was a social organization it was a kind of legal organization it was an advocate you know it was personal how you
eat together and lived together in a way that's etiquette has to do with
what's not harmful to other people and what doesn't disturb other people so
so there is this has set it starts out with these opening verses and then they have different sections according to
the most serious things that you can
break and those are the the para gekas and there's eight karadzic as which means defeat and the defeat means that you if you break these are if you do these particular actions you are know you are not a nun or a monk anymore and that the monks and nuns had the same for and then the nuns had for more
and which
were added so the nuns
the nuns were junior to the monks because they're near sanga was started five years after the monk so they inherited many of the things that were based on the monks misbehavior the what the monks were up to and that the buddha said please don't do this and so so they got all those and then more were made according to what the big tourneys did
or did not do
yeah
so some of them are not
don't really work for them like this one about don't urinate standing up
which it was made for the monks so there's some that they didn't i don't know why that was one repetitive was so
some of them are very particular it's good advice than you
don't have
so the the first eight are the worst worse meaning the most serious and if you break those you're you're defeated meaning and it's not that the nuns and monks say expel you you yourself defeat yourself by doing these things and so you're you're just out
and then
after that there's one called the remainders where you're kind of suspended and there's a bunch of those and
you there has to be a meeting of at least five sangha members to kind of go over what happened and then there's probation kind of a probationary period the net those are called sanga voci shot dharmas the next ones you know probably want to know what the sanskrit is but
that's so much fun to see me sorry cup ampk dharmas are called the abandoning downfalls are lapses entailing forfeiture and that you need to confess to the assembly that she did second church and then there's propelling downfalls where you have to confess and there's a self and
post confinement
vendors offences requiring confession and these are all at as i go down and list these are later offences until the last ones are am
ah
more like etiquette things
were there there's no real
punit not punishment but there's no real consequences just these are the etiquette of how you live together so there's a bunch of those
so i and then at the end of all these pretty moksha suitors are how you reconcile
kik nhat hanh maybe some of you read the seven stages of reconciliation if i believe comes from this because there's seven different methods for to solving dispute for resolving disputes so it's it's what we actually do you come together and each person tells their story you you listen you have to come with me
nine that's ready to hear and you anyway there's just very basic ways of reconciling differences that's also including year
so
i thought i'd start with a parent g because
actually it's interesting one of them is not to read these two people who have not received the full precepts and i can see why because it may be discouraging to someone they met at regency you mean somebody did that and the buddha had to say you can't do that you may be discouraged and say piano know if i want to be part of that so you know it's like wow
washing your dirty laundry you know it's like you don't necessarily put out a family
secrets here because someone may not be
encouraged by that but i think in terms of studying it
maybe it's important to say a few words about suspending our
critical or judgmental mind and just realizing this is these are human beings trying to practice in a particular way to thousand five hundred years ago pre literate you know this was all orally transmitted am and this and may have the same grade eight of
illusion that we do you know how
you know it's just like the difficulties they come up in the sagas in modern day you know all the difficulties we know so
so these are the dharma to ones these are the ones that are were translated into chinese and are still actively oh i just wanted to say what am i think before i read is that we have the bodies have the ceremony the sporting the formal ceremony these sutras were recited on the new and the full moon and this is and if you don't do that
that's one of these offences that needs
expiation or or resolving in some way so it's just this ceremony is the oldest buddhist ceremony the reciting and the new and the full moon we we have an abbreviated version just the full not the new but it was a lunar calendar and on the new one for muto was the fifteenth and the thirtieth or whatever for
just in the fifteen
pre buddhist times the wandering ascetics would get together on the new and full moon and practice together and in boot so buddha took that up and monks and nuns would first get together on the new and for mood and just sit
and the lay people would gather to and but they began to say well why they just sitting we would like we would like to hear some teachings so then they began to
give teachings and part of the teaching was what would it evolved into was reciting the rules of of the order given teacher i guess the lay people would have to leave them because this was only for the people in the order the nuns would do their rules and amongst we do there's and then it was a tie
avnet if any one
had broken a rule not observed it properly or new of another person this is said many different times if you hide the fact that so and so has broken a rule that was been breaking a rule so then you had a chance to confess it and then there was you know
some resolution of it or
the consequences so it it evolved into this confessional time of confessing
later i met change to just more of a ritual reciting and when it got to japan of course japan is one country that did not that the monks and nuns did not receive pretty moksha precepts we receive bodhisattva precepts
the sixteen bodhisattva precepts both li and priests in japan so it's a kind of an anomaly because as in many ways japan is because of these other countries they had these full or donations and in china there was another one the forty eight brahma giallo once precepts it's another
bodhisattva ordination but japan never had these they had
sixteen bodhisattva precepts so so that's what's come down to us through our lineage which is an abbreviated kind of version what we do and our full moon is abbreviation but it comes from it's the oldest buddhist ceremony to come together and to recite precepts and also to we do ancient to
to karma which is the repentance and confession and we invoke the presence of the buddhas and bodhisattvas you know we do that with lots of bells and lots of bowing then there's the bodyshop for miles and then we take refuge and then we've added just in the last ten years or so reciting of the precepts
following them three if you just so
ah
we are in a long lineage more than two thousand and five hundred years of religious
practicing people coming together and the new and the full moon to well
kind of rededicate we consecrate
their practice refresh and courage each other
so
so the first eight which means if you break them you are defeated and you're basically can't call yourself a a monk anymore the first is
oh and silence they ask after them elder sisters i recited the eight partially cause if a big juni has committed any of these privacy cause she is no longer allowed to live with other big shoe knees she will be what she was before so you can come lay just automatically
and we have now i ask you elder sisters who may do this after each section are you pure in this regard and then if you are pure than their silence silence means a cent salesmen vs we are pure so this is
i don't know somehow this this
have you heard this before that silence means a scent is that something that you've heard before know yes so so so this is be cited in than their silence you know which means everyone's in a court system both beyond green movement yeah so here's the first one if a big shh
unni engages in the impure conduct of sexual activity even with an animal then that big sunni commits perjury gain is expelled from the order i found that very interesting that that detail of even with an animal is included and mean that's it i mean by the
the the young what the buddha head to say because this was something that happened you know and
when that we for them
well i don't know it's in this is the same as for the monks eminence so they inherited the first fourth where the monks and then in the last four were added
the next weren't suppose
ah there's a kind of little stories as you go supposed to be shooting been an inhabited place or a secluded area with the intention of taking what is not given take something and if she is arrested by the king or a high official of the king or tied up
are executed or deported with these words you are a thief you are a fool you are ignorant if it makes shooting takes what is not given in such a way than that big sunni commits a par gk and is expelled so it's good it's the precept of taking what is not given that they go into you know
okay if a because this is three if a makes you need deliberately kills a human being with her own hands gives a knife to someone for that purpose praise his death in myers death or exhorts death the map actually commits a g go
so it's not only
you killing someone but also how that was good that someone so kill zones are you know that also is and in the tibet and wanted them with a service to bought a one it also specifically includes a fetus they actually bring the chinese one doesn't say
let me find this one
in tibet
if a big juni intentionally takes the life of a human being or a fetus with her own hands
you know feed us what that means or it's some the unborn child and what is called fetus embryo or fetus have any
takes the life of a human being or a fetus with her own hands gives a weapon to someone in sight someone to take up a weapon urges death or praises death saying why live such a foul of dreadful not virtuous life it would be easier to die than to live such a life with such a wish and idea in mind should she employ innumerable methods to
cause death or praised death then at that time than at the time and has done that big shooting commits a power gk and as expelled
but here the intention is the same but there are slight differences between the tibetan that school it's the tibetan translation of an indian school these are all indian schools that were then translated
the fourth one
this is this is the debate was felt that if a big truly who is not clairvoyant not all-knowing says such a them being innocence is supposed to be shooting who has actually ignorant praises herself saying i have achieved superhuman faculty
he's i have penetrated the sages wisdom and the supreme dharma i know this i see that and at a later time whether questioned or not wishing to purify ourselves says elder sisters i really did not know or see what i said i did it was deception and lies unless that big juni as
overly esteemed herself
that actually commits a par gk and is expelled
that last line about unless that big shooting has overly esteemed herself
i'm not exactly sure the intent of that
oh they say your normal sisters
if she said if she did not simply say it out of genuine pride but with the deliberate intention of telling a lie so you can be prideful
but if you intend to tell a lie about your accomplishments being having been proud is one thing but intentionally telling a lie about your accomplishments especially about
the dharma about super human faculties because you know it's supposedly along with our hardship comes
you know all see and clairvoyance and
you know superb ah human abilities walking on water various things that they talk about that were used to that
we're used to convert people
what can i say i don't know i just know but it said so if you lie about that you know this year out here are defeated
now these next one is next for our were for just fictions
and it's about
contact with a man and there's also lots of different things about contact with woman which i found very interesting but this is about contact with the man if you've be shooting with lustful mind has physical contact with the man with lustful mine in the area between the armpits and monies and the tibet and say in the air
area between the eyes and the means
and then they in a chinese they really go into it and as i read it it's it's some
it's very erotic actually just reading it
with less for mind in the area between the of the seventies be a touching holding stroking pulling pushing rubbing up or down lifting laundry
at recipe or pressing that actually commits perjury and if expel him so they
they have written character
they can't recruit i twice about trying to find all the old regime
what about it
how after it wasn't robbery
that i remember
they don't let me see what a tibetan when the
until the nose rubbing it sort of by it's really did get the word that i'm other instruments bpi yeah maybe that's why to do the adventures lot different if a pursuing aroused by desire comes into battle and contact with a man aroused by desire such that they touched when another between the
eyes and the knees and should she accept having had the experience of fully touching him than that actually commits a per gk and is expelled from the order
so she actually has to kind of knowingly and willingly fully have this experience in aroused by desire
but keen number six supposed to pick sunni with less for mine knows a man has a lustful mine yet allows him to hold her hand pulled her close and interest secluded place where they stand together talked together walk together lean on each other and make an appeal
meant to meet to make love if it actually transgressors these eight things she commits a per g jacket has expelled so
the
so it's almost like creating all the conditions were
because walking together it's having that you know having a less will mind with somebody with the less of mine and then walking together in a secluded place you know that this is not any different than kind of conversations that i have had with people about
who are trying to practice which let's say the six month rule that we have here that the guideline for not starting a new relationship during your first
ah months here as you're establishing your practice and then they say will does that mean
so what do we talking about does that mean
why can we get to that me well how about this will how about that can we do this how about his you know so this is not so different really from conversation that you know i've had you know less week with somebody new and not speak with last thirty you know where it's like at what point what is the
what are the conditions and suzuki roshi asked if he or his disciples not to visit each other's room why because it creates these conditions were what you committed to practice with is very hard to
practice with
so number seven of the project as if a big sunni knowing that another vic sunni has committed a pair of gk that concealed it does not report this to saga members or proclaim it to the assembly and later after that big should he has died or been publicly acts
xposed or has abandoned the path or has joined a non buddhist group says i knew that she had previously committed such a transgression then that a pic shooting commits a per g can is expelled because she conceal the other serious offense
so the young the gravity of
knowing that someone is not in accord
and not
letting other people know he is so not that that's that's what are the most difficult i mean the mazda strong offences
so your confidentiality
well it's a it's an issue when when what is confidentiality and they're they're saying in terms of this you you can't conceal it that's yeah me
was wondering if maybe that was one reason why do things should only be careful who you the impossible because it suits me like a wants you to save my money would be just condemning someone else out of their own or hopefully not their own wanting to look better
because the thing like to the parliament and android that
if they seem a lot more literal for some reason it seems to have more you like fully reading many many priests that but it seems like in this situation are much good point to something business
mrs jones is not like it's a ceremony if know the nuns to convert month as well have been seems like
this now we we do it more like you'll never know someone else and me is that kids
it is i feel it
i couldn't possibly know that there no
and and people have not made that commitment that's why during practice period when we actually we asked people if you want to do you wanna do this we actually specifically say what you do you want to stay in the valley the entire time without leaving yes i do do you want to bother the schedule yes do you want to
you know these are the guidelines is this what you really want do yes yes so in that situation i think
i don't know about concealing i don't think i'm
i think it we do affect each other strong me and i think they've been situations where people are discouraged because they see that someone isn't really following it whether it's didn't we all agree to do this aren't we all kenny in this together and so this
there's disharmony you know it you know this thing about milk and water students should be like milk and water she's a cure she said from predatory this is this milk and water where we're in a core where there's harmony and i think come they have this in here milk and water if it comes from that early this they say milk and water
here are chain noted to to reach you could i was so so in terms of concealing someone else as you all know when you
ah
when you know that someone is not in accord and you're concealing it there by definition is a kind of disharmony there
it basically means the person doesn't want it they may not want to do this so let's get it out there i really don't want to do this you know so
the seems for a relaxed
there must be so scary that commander just as a few that we have with just read speech alone is i mean every five minutes probably mess up on that o'hagan you know anybody could probably interpreted wednesday that was her lawyer
it seems like guns difficult hence constant pressure to somebody say that
yes and i think come you know we have the spirit there's the spirit of the letter you know and i think the spirit of it is i think we give each other a lot of room you know i think that's kind of
we give a suzuki or she say our cows a wide pasture you know for people to find their own way to realize themselves what's going on to bring it up but but sometimes we do bring you know sometimes but not in this kind of public way you know i don't think
i mean it's a very particular tradition that lasted for many many years for thousands of years
but one has to really say i want to live this way that open bad exposed that
ah
well ah
it in a manner i don't know what other or to use their but
that isn't guard that's not right now our way
i found that thing about local water let me just read it it's
it's it's an a the next level down where what it's supposed to be a junior wishes to harm the harmonious sanga diligently uses expedient means to do so except methods to destroy the saga and refuses to desist
then i met a big he should admonish that big sunni saying elder sister you should not destroy the sanga should not use expedient means to destroy the harmonious sanga or accept methods to destroy the summer without assisting elder sister you should go in harmony with the sanga by going in harmony with the sangha you will be happy
and non-contentious you will study with the teacher harmoniously with others like milk and water there will be increasing benefit in the buddha dharma living in peace and happiness
if when a big juni admonishes that picks sunni she persists in her misconduct then the big he should have manage are three kinds if she accepts the management and refrains from her misconduct even after the third time good if she does not and i'm thirty management that luxury commits a song of ossetia requiring
in repentance so
this is some this next agree within they have to if she continues wanting to do these other things but she's had managed it you know that wednesday we talked about disparaging buddha dharma sangha you know that the spirit in the triple treasure this thing about hamill harmony it's about the sanga tr
so so the reason you do it is because you will be happy there will be benefit you will live harmoniously
i to just do the last para chica because it's right about nine and then those h will be
oh just about that seventh month so at the i thought it was interesting in the chinese they say if after the person dies she said why do that why i knew she'd broke a you know
that's like
that's i'm like okay number eight suppose a big shooting continues to obey a big shoe whom she knows has been suspended by a carmen that's an act of the saga of the assembly in accordance with the dharma lavinia and the buddhist teaching and has not yet been absolved because of his refusal to obey and read
pant then other big should he say to her venerable sister this big shoe has been suspended by a carbon of the assembly in accordance with the dharma the athenian the buddhist teaching and has not yet been absolved because of his refusal to obey and repent you should not obey him if when the big shoe nice admonish or this picture and persists in or misconduct
then the big shiny should manage her twice or even three times to this is if she desist
after the third of management good if she does not that big student commits a parent gita and it's expelled for the fault of following a big shoe convicted in a common
so so you have this big show who's been expelled basically whose the and in the commentary she says this
this has to do with becoming really attached to people who are not been part of the samba and you want to go and follow them and do it they say
but they've been expelled you know you can't work with him anymore than not part of it but if you persist you want to you like that guy he was really a great guy you know
and then you had vanished you know they give him this when they gave you three chances are more to see that this is not
acceptable and then they and then you defeat yourself so you can feel that kind of human quality where you know how we
how you know how it is where you m
i mean i know how it is where you really are even though somebody had a does something that
makes be trouble you know
ah
you still are fond of them you know and but in this case they're not part of the and that means you can't have a certain access or contact with them
so if you persist
for those are the for then those last
that the chinese have
wasted distinct over
oh my god it's been like got for one that's too bad that in a person's phone that's in any year
after that
we all from income
yes true some places pay per view basis for those last four years are you making a call yeah you know are sticking their back i just like i zone scheme using the heart or warm yes well there's
the big chinese have three hundred and thirty eight in one or three hundred and seventeen and the man who have two hundred and fifty or so so there's
they they really pile of mine in terms of
relationships between the men and women
yeah you're more than women's responsible yeah
when i really see the difference of however to look at these at a younger age than how i would get a now
i think that's a big difference
these are for those of you who are new user
bibliographies would you like and enough you'll ever if you'd like he can
would you like
the first or second one about the yeah if i can to you know
pinker up i mean in a depression is very common woman and i think the thoughts of death go with depression you know you want a dire you aren't you just it's it's despair and i think to have this prohibition you cannot you know and think well of death through something that's that almost forces you to lie and say okay i'm not thinking about that
when you might so well i think i mean death as am thinking about death in terms of practice is highly recommended death death death will come the life force will be cut off you know but praising death or weapons or that somebody killed someone else or taking life is
so i don't think if they're really thinking about death as
praising it but they also there's a one of these that if someone is depressed that they should be given the full precepts of foreign nation depressed and there's other conditions where they say you that you can't give them
ah so been in your unconscious you know you might consciously not present that and your unconscious your dreams are the various things for a human to them
can i think about them
you know to go in those places in your consciousness yeah yeah it's like i'm mostly just come up
like
possible to control of them
so is that
interested in agreement that comes from the effort to practice of man there's a lot of like refuge there it was people are to creative practice
origins were can and then written anything
the ceremony sharing you can have
the spirit will be like the and to like
it is one to read that thing about the death again just children
if habitually deliberately kills a human being with her own hands gives a knife to someone for that purpose praises get admires get or exhorts death than that actually commit so you know at this personally
yeah sometimes i'll be
like watching a movie and the bad guy gets gets it you know and i find myself like saying yay me know
and then i
i think it's about that like really because there's also ammunition about not to see battle people a raid for battle or to watch a battle because he had come history with harming you know so
so i actually like the intention here is not necessary but i think that's a good point that you bring up what happens when you're depressed and like tisa you know she went to them with a rope into the forest rain or the of the t cyrus here to see her
so this happens you know and maybe that wasn't me maybe they meant the group
be interesting to find out i mean you understand i mean can understand that more on the context of killing yeah does not kill any harm to somebody you know that are pretty easy to you know
so yeah
but in terms of one's own depression or something i am does that mean you have to be expelled you know because this arose this thought arose course it could arise it could be just a thought and not something you actually really admire or praise and exalt
yeah very much
name