So, it's a little... for me to drop in here a couple of days ago and now be getting a lecture when you're in the middle of practice period and some of you I don't even know but I'm looking forward to getting to know you and I do have a fairly long sense of what happens at Tassajara And from the few people that I've had a chance to check in with, it seems like things are going wrong just as they should.

[01:02]

So with that encouragement to myself and your patients, I will proceed anyway. I've been gone for the last five weeks from Zen Center... Keith, my husband, and I have been having a vacation. It's quite an amazing thing. And we realized that this is the longest amount of time this was, the longest amount of time that we have spent together, totally together, for 25 years. Ever since we moved to Jamesburg and I started coming in here. So I want you to know that it went very well. That little experiment worked out fine. We had a wonderful time. We really had a wonderful time. Just briefly, it'll fit into the lecture.

[02:05]

And I won't go into much detail. We went for two weeks to Idaho, where I'm from, and where still my mother and several siblings live. And we went to many beautiful spots. in Nevada and Idaho, Nevada on our way there and then Idaho, and then back through Nevada again to Great Basin National Park and then over to Zion and Bryce, where we spent two weeks, one with Keith's brother and sister-in-law and one with our daughter Jamie and our two grandkids and Shogun, their father. And then almost a week getting back, going through Joshua Tree and Pasadena. something there at the end, coming back to civilization. So in that time, as I said, it was amazing, amazingly beautiful. If you haven't been to southern Utah, you should definitely go there.

[03:08]

Amazing place. For that matter, if you haven't been to Idaho, you should go there too. And I would say everything was... mostly wonderful, except there were two, one at the beginning and one at the end, kind of what we might call negative events. One was the fire that happened at Jamesburg, which, you know, turned out for us just fine. I mean, 11 houses out there were burned. But Jamesburg, the Zen Center part of Jamesburg is totally fine, and our lives were mostly not touched, but it was a... you know, an interesting wake-up call of how fragile things are, how everything could have been gone. I mean, there was no electricity, therefore there was no water. So, you know, had the fire got there for a while there, it would have been, hopefully the folks who were there would have just left.

[04:11]

We were very grateful to them for what they did there. And then at the end of our vacation, I found out that my mother has cancer, some kind of cancer. We don't know what kind yet. Probably esophageal, if that's how you say it. And three to six months to live. So she is doing very well right now. In fact, I talked to her yesterday and said I was thinking, you know, when should I come and all. She's like, not yet, not yet. I'm too busy. I have people to see and things to do, so... And it's not just denial. I think she's really very grounded in this is what's happening and things she needs to take care of. And at this time, she's not in pain. She has some discomfort with eating, and she can still get around. And she has a very, very strong Christian faith, which is sustaining her, I think, quite well. And I'm very grateful for that.

[05:14]

But that's in the back of my mind in terms of what I want to and what I will need to do, maybe nothing during this practice period. And also, so during this time that I was gone, I would say, what, not officially, directly or I did not think about Buddhism at all. LAUGHTER I thought about Tazahara a few times. I thought about you guys starting, and Greg and Linda would call me once in a while. So it wasn't like I was blocking it out, but I didn't really think, what does Buddhism have to do with this? But in retrospect, especially when I needed to prepare for this lecture, I saw that. In fact, Buddhism, of course, and my... faith maybe, was pervasive.

[06:19]

Like I could say that a few things that I learned in this trip were re-emphasized and grounded again were that we live in a beautiful, dependently co-arisen world. I mean, Zion and Bryce are all about dependently co-arising. They're all about how things get made you know how how the present happens from the way past and the fact that they're so different and they're so different from any other place that you will ever see is is very it's just wind it's just water it's just earth but somehow that unique way they came together there is how life works you know it's like how wind and water come to us and make something very unique that's different than anybody else. So go there and see it when you get a chance.

[07:22]

Not right now. And then, of course, the fire, again, the fragileness of it all, of us all, was so apparent. A little part of me was wishing everything that is in that house would burn. LAUGHTER So we wouldn't have to decide, you know, which to get rid of. But it didn't. Thank you very much. But still, you know, even if you're kind of wishing that, that was a really naive thought. You know, if it really had happened, what would that have meant to my life or Keith's life or your life? And then, of course, my mother is a huge dose of that, of how... You know, you're supposed to have a mother. I'm sure a lot of you don't have mothers anymore. But it's a big deal, or a parent.

[08:23]

You know, it's not just your mother. It's your father, your roots, really. I was feeling... We came back a few days before I came here, and we went up to... I went up to San Francisco to a meeting. And when I was up there, I was feeling so untethered. That was the feeling. It's like, I'm not... I'm no longer driving from place to place, having a vacation, and I'm not really back. I'm not back here. And my mother was a big part of that, how there's some link to some grounding that happens there that is still happening, but I can feel it. Oh, it won't always be there. Coming back here, it's a little different. I feel more tethered again, like it's so straightforward what we do here, actually.

[09:24]

So that's part of what I want to talk about, the role of Tassajara, how useful that is to have a space like this that you just do simple things. Of course, what goes on is not simple. Because when you do the simple things and you're like, if you do not have to decide what to have for lunch and you can just sit here and somebody else will bring you lunch, or even if you're in the kitchen cooking lunch and somebody else is deciding what it should be that you're cooking, or even if you're the person who's deciding what to cook for lunch, where are you? And that's really all you have to do, you know? There's plenty of time and space for other things to arise, right? Plenty of time and space for us to get very familiar with the particular way that wind and water and dependent co-arising work in this body and mind.

[10:35]

And so that's... That's one way of saying what I think Tassajara is about. So, you know, Buddhism is all about dependent core rising, that this world is created from everything, that it's, you know, moving along. It's not stuck. It's everything we do, everything we are, helps to make it what it is and what it will be. And therefore we have the possibility of it being... more beneficial or less beneficial. And that the best way to do that, this teaching is, I believe, this practice of Zaza, is that the best way to do that is to get, just settle down in it as much as possible. Just settle down and manifest yourself. So we have several reasons why

[11:37]

That does not seem like a good idea to us. Let's see. I won't name your personal reasons, so you don't need to worry. But one reason we don't think it's a good idea is because we've been taught otherwise. We've been taught that we are supposed to do various things like figure out who you should be. and get rid of some of your more difficult qualities and become a good person. So we've been taught that by our parents. We've been taught that by our culture. We've been taught that over and over again by our own trying to do it. We've developed a groove where if something happens and red flags come up with it, what do we do immediately? We start thinking about it. We think, oh, I shouldn't have done that.

[12:41]

Or what could I do differently? Or how could I make them be different? Or should I be here? Or what should I do with my life? We've had a big dose of this other way of being. Like, figure it out. Think about it. Read about it. Study it. Anywhere, you know, study Buddhism and figure out how it should be, how you should be, and then get to work. Do it. So that's one big reason why we don't think this idea of, like, sit down, settle in, be your part of the universe. We don't think that's such a good idea a lot of the time. Another reason we don't think it's such a good idea is that it doesn't feel so good a lot of the time. If you just do that... Just try it out for a few minutes as you've been doing. And this settle down, sit down, settle down happens in more than just sitting meditation, obviously.

[13:49]

This kind of zazen happens all the time. So this settle in, be your part of the universe doesn't feel so good sometimes. It feels downright painful sometimes. You know, it feels physically painful sometimes. It feels emotionally painful sometimes. And that signal to us is it's wrong. It's bad. Something's wrong. Something that shouldn't be happening. Somewhere we've gotten the idea that we should not have pain. And I think it's a really deep, old idea. I think, you know, in some ways is, like, I've talked about this before, amoeba. Amoeba have that idea. You know, if they're scooting along and they run into something sharp, they back up. And it's not a totally wrong idea, right? It's like, why we don't touch the burner on the stove and, you know, all that kind of thing.

[14:55]

But we take it to extremes, you know, and we need to know that all pain cannot be avoided. Like, we each of us have a body, and with a body comes pain. Period. And then we have a mind, and with a mind comes another kind of pain. Period. So we are in this world, this beautiful world, which is not stuck, which is very, very, very responsive. You know, we're really... Everything is responsive. There's a phrase in Dogen's ocean seal, the ocean seal concentration, that says there are no dead bodies in the ocean. Have you read that phrase? Very interesting. There are no dead bodies in the ocean. And I think this is what he's talking about.

[15:58]

It's like everything is responsive. Everything. Part of us is responsive. Every part of the world is responsive. So in that very alive place, we will have some pain. But we have this idea that we shouldn't. And it's not a simple idea because, in fact, we do need to respond to pain. But when do we sit still? problem that you deal with every day or at least every sashim, right? Should I sit still now or should I move? Is this doing damage or is this just my natural resistance to pain? Not an easy question. There's not like an easy answer for that. But our sense that it shouldn't be is part of why

[16:59]

we would never imagine that it might be okay to just settle in, be our part of the universe. Trying to remember my third point, why we not do that. Which I'm not remembering right now. Let me see if I wrote it down. Just that we have developed our, again, it's habit, our habit. So we have, each of us, our unique ways of coping with our pain, our physical pain, our emotional pain. We've developed ways that work for us to some extent over the years. So somebody might have taught us you should think it out, So if that works well for you, then you'll probably do that. But if that doesn't work, you can always, like, scream or run away or drink.

[18:05]

You know, we have ways that we have developed of coping with our pain that, again, we've been working on them. There's nobody here who's all that young that we haven't been working on them for a long time. And that habit track is... It's not to be poo-pooed. It's something. So even when we hear, oh, it might be a good thing to sit down, settle, and see what is it really like to be this part of the universe, there's a lot that's going against that. Those habits are deep. Deeply ingrained. And the particular ones that you have or that I have came to you because they worked for you. So they're not just like made up out of your mind. Like, oh, I'll do this. And then when I don't want to do that anymore, I'll just stop doing that.

[19:08]

No, they're like built with, you know, cells and cement and all kinds of things. So this is not an easy... project that we are undertaking. I rewrote and pulled out, since the only Buddhism that I've read, you know, official Buddhism in the last little while, was the Fukunza Zengi this morning. Yesterday we did some other things, right? We've done the Heart Sutra and all. But anyway, this one came to me, so I rewrote a little bit from it. Maybe just to show you... hopefully to show you that it's not just me saying this, Dogen saying this too. So the way is all pervading, never apart from one, right where one is. This is, you know, this is again an encouragement to just, the way is actually here. It's all pervading.

[20:09]

It's pervading even the parts of you that you thought weren't supposed to be there. That's where the way is to be found. right where one is. And yet, we can get lost in confusion if the least like or dislike arises. So even though we're totally pervaded with the way, the way of freedom, let's say, Buddhism, the way of freedom, it's very easy to get distracted from that, to get confused about that. All we have to do is prefer it to be different. And also, that's very hard not to do. Therefore, cease from practice based on intellectual understanding, pursuing words and following after speech, and learn the backward step that turns your light inward to illuminate yourself. Sound familiar? Do not believe thoughts of good or bad, pro or con.

[21:11]

He says, don't have thoughts of good or bad or pro or con. I find that very difficult. So I think it's more effective for me to say to myself, and therefore I'm saying it to you, if you have these thoughts of this is bad or that would be better, to try not to believe them. It's okay. Actually, the thoughts themselves are the way. It's just they're the way in a sneaky way. Zazen is the manifestation of reality. Once its heart is grasped, you are living in the Dharma gate of ease, like a tiger in the jungle or a deer in the mountains. Finding this heart cannot be fully understood by discriminative thinking. Discriminative thinking and relying on it are part of the problem. Devotion to and engaging in Zazen.

[22:16]

is bigger than just sitting zazen. It's standing, walking, moving around. This zazen that we can be devoted to, this turning the light inward to examine the self, to illuminate the self, to see... What is this part of this dependently polarizing, very responsive, constantly changing universe? And how does it fit in? Which parts of it are making more pain? Which parts are making less pain? How to explore that? How to turn that light around? This zazen, I think one way of describing it is called openness or trusting. But it's trusting, not like making yourself trust, but like noticing if you don't trust, and then instead of believing your thoughts of pro and con, and this is trustworthy and this isn't, having that question, sitting still, being still enough to have that question, not having to, for the time being, decide what you're going to have for lunch.

[23:40]

not having for the time being decide what you're going to wear, not having to decide who you're going to work for. You're going to take the crew head you've been given. So this is one of the ways that Tassajara supports us in this deep exploration of who works What is this self that's being illuminated and how does it function? Again, not so much with our head, not coming to the answer of that with our head, but to some, is it possible to actually trust this? Is it possible to live as this being with the ease of a deer walking around in the mountains? Where, oh yeah, it doesn't feel so good right now. What? What is that? Do I move toward it?

[24:43]

Do I move away from it? Do I just sit here still? And another way that Tassara helps us with this is it doesn't leave us just sitting quietly by ourself, no matter what you thought before you got here. It surrounds us with other people, and these other people we are very responsive to. We are very alive too. We like and we dislike. And they give us our food. They serve us and they serve us wrong. Or sometimes they serve us right. They chant with us. They bow next to us. They do it in the most irritating or the most beautiful way. It gets in there and it like... triggers things it triggers part of ourselves so that this illumination can happen so we can turn the light around and hopefully be responsive to them but not be so distracted by them and by what they're doing what they're saying that we don't notice the main object of our meditation the one that we have to go on living with that we will go on living with

[26:03]

and that we can very much benefit by coming to some peace with, again, not peace with, oh, I am this kind of person, because it's constantly moving, constantly responsive, but some peace that allows it to move, that allows us to enjoy its movement, even when that movement might be painful, letting go of something, the grieving of something or something... some wonderfully held idea failing us. The pain of that to be able to actually see, oh, even though this is happening, this is part of our big, alive world, responsive world. And how this, you know, this fact, I think fact, that this is beyond our discrimination. We are not... able to figure this out. If you can right now say something about your main issue right now, if you have one, that's great.

[27:13]

I'm not saying that is useless. I think we do have brains and they like to be involved. So if you have been given some insight into what you're working on, and how it's going for you and all, that's fine, but I would hold that lightly, because what's really going on is much bigger, deeper, more mysterious, simpler, probably, than we tend to make it out to be. And there's no problem that we have those thoughts, and in fact... They're quite wonderful. We can talk about them with each other and enjoy each other's stories and empathize with each other and help each other even. But that's not the path to freedom. That won't get us there. Actually, we have to come here where we are and live here as it's happening.

[28:16]

And this life, this practice, this Azen practice, this life of living here together with this kind of simple complexity in this spacious, very crowded valley, really can help us do that. Can really help us settle into a... settling into the life we have, settling with some actual feeling of trust. This is my experience. This is what I've seen many people do here. But I hesitate when I say that because, again, it's not like make yourself trust this. It's like when it feels untrustworthy, go there with an open mind. Don't clamp down on your answer too hard. Give it some time, some space. Sometimes things, you know, situations that seem just like, oh, so complicated.

[29:20]

And what could possibly be done here? And everything I do seems to make it worse. And then you, you know, do something like sesshin and you come out and it's gone. Or even just you sit one period of zazen and it's gone. You know, it's, things are very, it's not that they don't exist. They're really there, but they're not. They're not nearly as solid as we tend to feel like they are. And yet they're there. They're very effective. They're happening. So I wonder if you have any thoughts, questions, anything like that. Yes, Jodi. I have a question. You talked about your mother's Christian faith and her Buddhist... Faith. Yes, faith. Could you talk about that hesitancy and why you think the question of faith has spoken so much beautifully about trust? Yes. Well, I think in the way that I use faith, it's trust.

[30:27]

And I think part of my hesitancy to use that word, although I do use it with myself and with others, but some hesitancy... is particular to me, but it may be particular to a number of you also, is that when I was being brought up, it seemed like the faith I was being asked to take on or generate was make myself believe in something or somebody or something, which I don't want to do. And I don't think Buddhism is asking us to do this. I think Buddha said, you know, you see, keep your mind open, keep your eyes open. see what's happening. I think that statement was deeper than I imagined when I first heard it. It's like, when do I believe my eyes and my mind? But nonetheless, I have to live as this person. So it's not like I don't believe my eyes and my mind.

[31:28]

It's just that I know sometimes they fool me. So I have faith in that. Thank you. Yes, Mohammed. I was wondering when you read that passage and take the backwards step who takes the backwards step? And who does the illumination? And eventually who does the seeing if there is any? Yeah. I think that's a useful way of questioning because it's because we have such an idea of I do and I know who I am and I know what I'm seeing and I know or I don't know I don't know how to take the backward step you know but it's me right and so that question the way you're asking it is really like really I do or and who is that and so I think yeah go ahead another way of

[32:38]

right with this is that actually a fruitful question i mean can you probe into yourself and say who's doing this yes right right i don't use that right i i do not find it fruitful for me i find it confusing i can see why it's a it you know it breaks down that this is me but i feel like that's what we're doing here anyway you know that's That's kind of the essence of Zazen and of practice period life is you may think you know something, and then because it's quiet enough, because every day you do the same thing almost, someday you see, oh, that thing I thought was there is not there. That thing being me or that thing being this other person or that thing being how I feel about peas or any number of things that we can have. So there are different ways of practicing.

[33:38]

There's, you know, in one Tibetan practice I took a class in once, you know, it's kind of like a sesheen of the mind. And that's how I think of that question. It's like a sesheen of the mind where you like, you really try to think. Who? Who, who, who? You know, I'd rather, it's too complicated for me. I can, or it's too, or I'm too complicated for it. I can think about it forever. Can I just follow up? Yes, yes, please. I once had a practice discussion with someone, and they suggested that we are nothing but phantoms. Phantoms. Yes. And because of the process of change, you know, the fact that we are changing all the time, and we don't know who is changing, what is changing. Yes, yes, yes. What? Yes. All right. So we come to that point where we are really timers. You know, just... Yes. Where we are timeless. Part of our imagination.

[34:39]

Yes, yes. Part of our imagination. And eventually that could actually drive you insane. Yes. Yes. What do you do with that? Well, what they do, what somebody with a different practice does with that, I don't know. But what we do in this practice is we get up every morning with the wake-up bell, we put on our robes, we come to Pizendo, we sit there, we chant, we bow, we... And really, especially, I think it's often most apparent in the first practice period or first couple practice periods, but I think it goes on and on, people really can feel like and be dissolving. And our identity is dissolving because we've invested in it. I'm this person. I do things this way. I like it like this. We've invested in that for years. And then we come here and we do this every day. Get up, go to the Zendo, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't matter what you like. And in fact, you find out I don't like it.

[35:41]

Or I thought I needed that, but I don't need it. And it can feel like going insane. It's a kind of like dissolving of identity, a precious identity that's been built, you know. So in this practice, we do something really stable. We do like, you know, walk here, do this. Grounded insanity. Pardon? Grounded insanity. Grounded insanity. Yeah, something like that. Really, because that's... This is our situation. We build an identity out of sticks and stones and nothing and, you know, and then spend our energy, our life holding it together and something comes along like cancer or, you know, fire or somebody saying, I don't like you and it dissolves and we go slightly insane depending on, you know, more or less, depending on lots of things.

[36:48]

So, yeah, it could be called grounded insanity. Trustworthy insanity. Thank you for your question. Cecilia. I didn't understand much, but it seems to me that it's not a matter of keep putting more things. It seems that life is a big deal all the time. If you see it that way, it's more like you just say, dissolving the thoughts. Like, okay, you have this, and You see it, there's no solution. So better don't attach it. It will cut up. But if it's with no attachment, it's like, it's a ghost. So it's not to, it doesn't have that weight. The counseling doesn't have that weight. Yes, yes. Whatever. Yes, when it doesn't, it's possible for it not to have that weight. And sometimes we see that, and that's hugely freeing.

[37:50]

So that even when it comes back, When it comes back or when another one comes, usually I have another familiar one. Like, you know, a huge feeling of I'm no good. Something that maybe we have regularly and it comes back again and it's like so real. It's so, you know, and you could say, I shouldn't have this. This is just made up. I don't, you know, but it's there. It's like, it's really there. But if you've had one of those experiences, like something you thought was really there is just then gone, it helps. And what's more, the teaching is not that there's nothing there. There are things there. There are thoughts. There are feelings. There are all kinds of things. There's a body. It's really here. It's just not as solid as I think it is. How are we going to live with that world? It turns out we've been doing it all along.

[38:51]

And we could have less pain in our lives, less optional pain, if we could not, like you say, not believe it, not hold on to it. But not holding on to it doesn't always mean it will disappear right then. Sometimes we let go and there it still is. And then we let go again and there it still is. And if we start... pushing away like this, you know, I let go of you, go away. That's just more, you know, in another way, and I feel it's really useful. I find it really useful in this, such a physical practice is tightening. Tightening is a tightening in our body, anywhere in our body. And sometimes it feels like it's in our, the actual tightening is in our mind is a clue that we are either grasping or pushing away. Tightening actually works for either one and is so simple in a way, you know, it's not complicated.

[39:54]

Like is this, I don't know. It's not complicated. It's like tightening. So when, when we notice tightening, we can try to relax it. And if it doesn't relax, we can try to keep our eye on it because it's a place for, from whence confusion can come. So if the tightening is there and it stays there, and seshing is such a good place for demonstrating this, sorry to say, tightening, there it is. Sometimes you can relax and it goes away, but usually it comes back. And that's one of the ways that this practice is showing us this is not something you can do. You can be there for it, you totally participate in it, but if you sit there with it, Sometimes it actually relaxes. From where? Who knows? I had a question about your, I'm paraphrasing, but with respect to loosening thoughts or, I'll just use the example of thoughts, how not to have that slip into a self-doubt or

[41:13]

a mistrust and like an inner mistrust like I can't trust my thoughts I can't trust like where's that line between sort of a relationship of loosening versus and I'll call it maybe a healthy skepticism yes yeah versus sort of an underlining yeah sense of self or of doubt of as being yes um I use this example. I think it's kind of like, you know, that phrase, first the mountains are mountains, and then mountains aren't mountains, and then mountains are mountains again. So there's my thought, and I believe it, and I go to bat for it, whatever that means. You know, I take the bat to you, because you don't believe my thought. Then, and it's not so, it sounds linear, but... And it is, in a way. I think in most of our practice it is linear.

[42:16]

At some point we realize, oh, that thought that I'm willing to go to bat for is at least untrustworthy. You know, it's like I'm not sure. And most things, really, I'm not sure. Like, do I like peas or don't I like peas? I don't, you know, I think I don't. But really? Do I not? You know, or I feel uncomfortable with lecturing. I don't want to lecture, but do I? Maybe I do. Maybe I like it. Maybe I'm attached to it. Maybe it's my ego. So definitely our world gets more transparent. It's like, what's here? What's real? Who is doing this? And then, actually, mountains are mountains, which doesn't mean that they will always be mountains. It's like, I don't like peas. Fine. Oh, you want me to eat peas?

[43:16]

Well, fine. It's not stuck. But if right now I don't like what you're saying, it's possible I could actually tell you that. And it would fit into the universe actually quite nicely. It doesn't mean I don't like what you're saying and I'm right and you're wrong. And that's the way it is, right? It means I'm having this arousing of, you know, you can go into all kinds of psychobabble about it. Or you can just say, I don't like what you're saying. And it depends on who you are, what's the right thing to do, and who the other person is. But actually, we live a particular life. It's very particular. But it's moving. So you can't just settle down, okay, I'm going to be here. and I'm going to be this person. It's more like we are learning at Tassajara, we are learning to go with the flow.

[44:17]

We're jumping in this river and going along with it and seeing, is that okay? What if today I have a headache? What if I wear bright red to the Zendo? What would happen? What if I decide not to wear my robe, I decide to wear my red hoodie? Don't come in here. I'm going to sit here in red and see what happens. What happens, you know, probably what happens, I mean, any number of things could happen, but probably the Eno or the Tonto or the Abbot or the senior Dharma teacher will come to you and say, excuse me, where's your robe? Are you all right? And then, so then it's the next step. What happens then? Right? Maybe you say, well, I don't know. like my robe anymore. I needed some red. And maybe they'll say, okay, out of here. You're not a Zen monk. Or maybe they'll say, do you have enough red now? We don't know.

[45:22]

It depends on the mood. It depends on everything. So yeah, it's a great question. It's like, can I be, it is the question in a way, can I be who I am Am. Is that okay? No. Try it. Yes, Diego. You mentioned habits. Yes. In response to pain. Yes. Are habits... I don't want to be realistic about it, but good or bad? Are we creating habits here which are good? Uh-huh. Uh... To some extent, yes. Various kinds of habits here. But any habits have to also be flexible. But we do have habits. We are creatures of habits. So we have certain habits.

[46:23]

Like we have a habit to go to the back door. And we just go to the back door. It's like at that time of day, we just go to the back door. And we see... And then, you know, there we are, and there's food, so then we probably have a habit of eating. But we might create another habit, which would be, you know, question whether you go to the back door or don't go to the back door. But that's not, like, the habit to always follow, but it might be a counter to a habit that's caused you some difficulty. So, yeah, I'd say we are creating more habits. Would you... Would we? Do we hear? Or should one? I'm not sure what you're asking. Habits... It's almost impossible, I think, to live a life without habits, given that we're humans.

[47:29]

You know, we have independent core rising... There's so much that is continuing at any given moment that, you know, habits form. Now, you know, things can happen where habits are pretty much lost. And we should not imagine that such a thing wouldn't happen. Like, Tassajara is a big, long, wonderful habit. And it could be gone. Then, the remnants of our Tassajara habits... We'll be there wherever we are, and we'll see what we can do with those. I think it's hard for us as humans to live like, well, I mean, that's part of, you know, one part of practice is you just try to meet each moment. But we, strangely enough, do that here, where, you know, you meet each moment and you still follow the schedule. Pretty much, right? That's so we can question, you know, where do our, question, not so much with our mind, but with our whole body, where is this urge coming from?

[48:36]

You know, like Suzuki Roshi said, we think to be free is to be able to do whatever you want at any moment. But actually, that's not true freedom. It's like, how do you actually respond in the situation as it is? So if you're in a Zen monastery called Tassahara, how do you respond there? And how do you respond if you're out Skiing down a mountain. Yes. Is your dad still alive? No. He died 10 years ago. Thanks. Yes. I just want to get back to Jodi's question for a second. She talked also about the faith of your mother. Yes. And I wondered if there was something in what you call the faith of your mother. that joins your experience, that you appreciate, or is it still very much sort of this invitation or obligation to believe in something of your childhood that you discarded or you didn't want to?

[49:41]

Are you talking about the faith of my mother for me or my mother's faith? Are you talking about Christianity for me? My mother's Christian faith, and I'm thankful for it. I just wonder, is there... Her experience of faith, maybe, joins your experience of faith, or at least that you appreciate. Yes, yes. Well, I appreciate, you know, I very much appreciate her stability, her faith, you know. I appreciate that she, like, lives her life, and without a lot of, even the thing that I do, And my appreciation of her faith goes very closely with my appreciation of my Christian faith, which I had for years and years and still have in some ways, except that I don't really, I don't put it into Christianity, but I feel like what I experienced then is, you know, became this. So, you know, there are a few things about it I don't appreciate, and I appreciate that she doesn't take those up very strongly.

[50:50]

Like, I don't appreciate it's the teaching of this is the only way, which a lot of times comes across pretty strongly in the kind of Christianity that I practice. I just can't go there, you know, that doesn't make any sense. Obviously, that doesn't make any sense to me. And I'm not totally sure how she feels about that at this point. I think she probably thinks, I don't know, she thinks I'm going to hell? I don't know, she doesn't talk like that anymore. She used to worry about that, and she doesn't talk about that anymore, and I haven't actually asked her. I was wondering just yesterday or today or something, whether I could ask her whether that would make sense. I don't know. I'll have to see. In this, as she, you know, like, what do you think is going to happen? Do you really think? Never mind. Don't let me do. What do you think? Like, you answer. Okay. Anybody else?

[51:57]

Anything else? Okay. Thank you all very much. I look forward to continuing the practice period with you. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

[52:28]

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