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When Subjectivity and Objectivity Shake Hands
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7/14/2007, Dairyu Michael Wenger dharma talk at City Center.
The talk focuses on the Sandokai, an essential Zen text by Sekito from the eighth century, exploring its significance in understanding the unity and duality within Zen philosophy. The discussion includes the historical context and development of Zen lineage, the role of subjective and objective reality in practice, and the poem's application as a guide for integrating diversity within the self and community.
- "Sandokai" by Sekito (Shitou Xiqian): A critical Zen poem illustrating the meeting of unity and multiplicity, central to understanding Zen practice at a matured historical phase.
- Bodhidharma: Mentioned for establishing Zen's origins in the sixth century and symbolizing the outsider's role within Zen history, emphasizing Zen's invented yet stable lineage.
- Sutra of the Sixth Ancestor (Huineng): Explored as a text that argues for specific lineage authority, reflecting political dynamics within early Zen teachings.
- Suzuki Roshi's Translations: Discussed as providing a word-for-word translation of Sandokai, highlighting a nuanced understanding of Zen's foundational principles.
AI Suggested Title: Unity and Duality in Zen
My Jisha Steven is learning break dancing. I should ask him to teach me a few moves. So as many of you know, Paul, you shouldn't have it is leading the intensive. talking about the Sandokai, which is a very important work. And it's important for philosophical, historical and practice reasons. So I thought I'd talk a little bit about it. I was surprised at dinner yesterday when somebody mentioned that they thought this poem was easy.
[01:22]
We have some very deep students here. So just a few words about the title. Son Do Kai. Son means many or phenomena. On the multiplicity of appearances and conditions. Many things, difference. So something like that. And means one or unity. We're saying this in kind means meeting or union or bond or what I like to think of it as shaking hands. So when oneness and duality shake hands, when subjectivity and objectivity shake hands or meet or completely fit. So that doesn't sound so easy to me. was written in the eighth century by Sekito.
[02:41]
And it's a very important historical work for the history of Zen. Bodhidharma lived in the sixth century. The fifth patriarch or sixth patriarch lived in the seventh century. And Sekito lived in the eighth century. What happened in the sixth century was probably completely made up. Because at the time, there are notices of it, but very little information. It's what Zen invented its history. And then once it invented its history, it was very accurate. Bodhidharma, as you know, is kind of a crazy guy. He's right outside the Buddha Hall. And sometimes he's fierce and sometimes he's comical and sometimes he's both at the same time.
[03:48]
Pretty symbolic of the the outsider. He had a red beard. Who had a red beard in China? I mean. And then then the six ancestor tell. Tell us about how the lineage has been transferred and is also a very political document trying to push one lineage over the other. When you're starting, when religion is starting, it has to say what's distinguished about it and to be critical of the powers that be. Then it develops and it becomes part of the powers that be. It has to have a unity of what's different and what's the same. So that's what Sekito did. Sekito, this poem, the Sandokai, is a very mature work. It's very integrating. It says there's no ancestor of south or north.
[04:53]
The teaching is everywhere. In America, we might say there's no patriarch of east and west, since that's the discrimination between the East Coast schools in the West Coast schools. And it's it's an important time now that Paul is teaching it is very opportune because. We're no longer a new organization. And we're we need to mature our rough edges in the sun. The Kai is a way without denying. I mean, you see, Chris Lee, we find that how much we're the same. We see how both fit. But beside this kind of.
[05:59]
Historical or objective meaning of the text. It also has a practice side. Whenever we talk about it, this is Suzuki Roshi. Whenever we talk about in any moment is within our mind. Everything is within our mind. But you usually think there are many things. There is this and this and this out there. That sun. In the cosmos, there are many stars. But right now we can only reach the moon. In a few years, we may reach other planets. And eventually we may reach some other solar system.
[07:02]
In Buddhism, mind and being are one, not different. As there's no limit to cosmic being, there's no limit to our mind. Our mind reaches everywhere. Sound is different from noise. Sound is something that comes from your practice. Noise is something more objective, something that can bother you. If you strike a drum, the sound you make is the sound of your own subjective practice. And it is also the sound that encourages all of us. Sound is both subjective and objective. If I say something, I will get feedback. That is sound. Buddhism understands the sound of something created in our mind. I may think the bird is singing over there. But when I hear the bird, the bird is me already. Actually, I'm not listening to the bird. The bird is here in my mind, and I am singing with the bird. Think while you are studying, the Blue Jay is singing above my roof, but its voice is not so good.
[08:09]
And Blue Jays are rather raucous. When you are not disturbed by Blue Jays, the Blue Jay will come right into your heart, and you will be a Blue Jay, and the Blue Jay will be reading something, and then the Blue Jay will not disturb your reading. When we think the Blue Jay over my roof should not be there, that thought is a more primitive understanding of being. Because for a lack of practice, we understand things in this way. So I like that. It comes into your heart when you don't discriminate. There's another part of this this particular lecture, which I really like, in which he talks about. object about relative and absolute. Usually we're always comparing ourselves to other people, and that's the relative world.
[09:16]
But each one of us has our own absolute value, which can't be compared. It's just who we are. Just so. I was thinking of. What examples in my life can I talk about the Sando Kai? I thought of one, actually. Early on, when I was practicing in New York, I was a social worker and I was on the softball team and I was coming back from the softball game and I was sweaty. I had a beard. I was a little disheveled, perhaps. And an older woman with a British accent said, started to harangue the way I looked. And then I turned to her and said, good morning. And she said, at least you're polite. That was sort of a small miracle.
[10:22]
I didn't get uptight. She didn't get more uptight. She she found a way to meet me and I found a way to meet her. Well, I'm a modern poet. I think the Sando Kai is 44 couplets. Philip's poem is one line. All of me that there is makes a shadow. That seems to me an example of Sando Kai. I put together a Suzuki Roshi never translated the whole of the Sandokai, but he did. He did translate it word for word mostly. So I put together his word for word translations into this one. So this is not an accurate one, but it does show the trajectory of his mind.
[11:28]
And I think it's it's actually rather juicy. The mind of the great sage of India was handed down closely from west to east. People may discriminate the dull from the north from the king, but in the true way, there is no ancestor of north or south. The teaching is always in front of us. The wind source is pure and stainless. The brand streams flow in the dark. Clutching at things is delusion. To recognize the truth is not always enlightenment either. I think that. The person I was having dinner with might want to look at that one. The five sense case in the five sense objects are interdependent and absolutely independent.
[12:35]
In this room I am talking, but really what's happening is there's Buddhism happening between us. Interrelated endlessly, yet each stays in its own position. Things have various natures, various forms. There is good and bad taste, sound and feeling. In darkness, superior and inferior cannot be distinguished in brightness. The duality of pure and impure is apparent. Actually, it's only in the dark that we can see the unity of things. resume their nature as a child has its mother. Fire is hot, wind blows, water wets, and earth is solid.
[13:42]
For eyes there is color and form, for ears there is sound, for nose there is smell, and for the tongue there is taste. After saying all that, Suzuki Roshi said, that's just Buddhist common sense. Each being comes out from the root. As branches and leaves come up, But both root and end should return to their original nature. The words we use are different, good and bad, respectful and mean. But through these words, we should understand the absolute being or source of the teaching. Within brightness, actually, there is utter darkness, but you should not meet someone just with darkness. Within darkness, there is brightness, but you should not see others only with the eyes of brightness.
[14:46]
and brightness stand with each other like one foot forward and the other behind and walking. Everything, all beings have their own virtue. They should know how to apply this truth. Things in emptiness are like a container and it's cover fitting together like two arrow meeting head on. When you listen to the words, you should understand the source of the teaching. Don't establish your own rules. If you don't practice in your everyday life as you walk, how can you know the way? The goal is neither far nor near. If you stick to the idea of good or bad, you will be separated from the way by high mountains or big rivers. Seekers of the truth. Don't spend your time in vain. Sometimes it's easy to see this truth, to see that we're all one and we're all distinct at the same time.
[16:13]
But to practice with that, to take responsibility for what is us and take responsibility for what is I, is not so easy. It's easy to get upset when someone says you don't look so good. Even if they're right. It's easy to stay in the position of haranguing somebody, even if the data comes against your understanding. to be one of those who are sold on Zen and think it's great. That's how I got to be here. But that doesn't mean that there are negative things that happen as we human beings practice it.
[17:23]
Getting through the truth is not always right either. There's a famous saying which says that not knowing is nearest. Looking and not knowing is nearest. You have both the dark and the light then. But it's still not it. Well, we each have to find out what it is. century when Sekito was alive there had been two or three self-conscious generations of Zen practitioners with the fifth and sixth ancestor it's unclear whether they were antecedents or that they made up their own antecedents sometimes when you make up something it's even more important than if you didn't make it up
[19:33]
Because you need it. The suture of the sixth ancestor is also there are many versions of it. Some people think it was a transmission document. But it was written by one disciple. Arguing for his teacher as being the best teacher. Did you notice that? My teacher is the best teacher. His teacher is not so good. That means I'm better than him. It's rather sad, isn't it? Sandokai recognizes teachers, but it doesn't put one up against another.
[20:43]
You know, some of the best students are not the best teachers and some of the best teachers are not the best students. I don't know why. But actually, to think that your teacher is the best is good. And not to brag about it. Because there's some reason you're sitting with him or her. But once you start having different lineages, the streams start spreading out. Up until the sixth ancestor, there was just one robe and ball. But after that, legitimate lineages spread out. Isn't that nice? Yes, it is nice.
[21:47]
So that's what's happening now in America, too. The way Paul's choosing the Sandokai, I think, was a particularly appropriate. There are. Suzuki Roshi, there are many teachers who are making other teachers. And they all have their own uniqueness. They're all absolutely fine. And their relative merits may not be so important. We do have multiplicity and we have to and to compare is odious, but sometimes necessary. But now branching streams are flowing in the darkness.
[23:04]
There are now over 60 groups. who I think it's maybe more like 70 groups who have Suzuki Roshi as they're in their lineage or very close to them. That's a lot of streams. Find your own authentic. Yes, which is not just your habit. Sometimes we think our habit is who we are. And unfortunately, it often covers totally who we are. One of you has Buddha nature.
[24:11]
Each one of you has their own authenticity. Sometimes it's a necessary thing in a community. There are meetings where we talk about. Everybody in the community and what they should do next and what would be good for them. And it's a necessary job. But it's easy to get caught by comparative thinking. And actually think that somebody is better than somebody else. be more appropriate for a particular position and there may be ways to interrelate to certain people that would be helpful to them.
[25:18]
But the shaking hands of the relative and the absolute doesn't leave the stain of either one. Reminds me a little bit about I had an idea for Buddhist math, which is two multiple things are equal to one oneness, which is equal to zero. Two equals one equals zero. I don't think people would teach that, but. which they're not exactly equal, but they're comparable or they're not exactly comparable, but they cover the same space.
[26:35]
Do you think there are multiple things and you can also experience it as one? And what is one based on? So not overly discriminating or copping out by saying it's all one. How do we live in a way which sees unity and diversity? When I was walking down the street in Brooklyn at the time and this older woman Criticized me. I happened to be doing a mantra. I wasn't so based on who I was or she was her.
[27:41]
I gave up this point of view a little bit, a little bit. that there is makes a shadow means depending on the light, you're very different. And we can't always know what our shadow is. You let go of your discrimination, even the blue jays. Blue jays are actually classified as songbirds, believe it or not. That's how the state classifies them. Songbirds.
[28:49]
And when you're a Tassajara and you're studying, you begin to think that blue jays are greedy because they they pass on all food and they even learn to attack. Bag lunches. But I think we know what being greedy is like so we can relate to a blue jay. Blue jay is greedy, but I'm not. The blue jay has a raucous sound and it's disturbing my study. What are you studying? things as it is. Rarely met with even a hundred thousand million couples.
[30:37]
The meaning of this many bodhisattvas is really met with even a hundred thousand million couples. They're having a place in the Sangha and teachers. study things as it is for things as they are is a rare opportunity. So let's take advantage of it.
[31:31]
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