My name is Robert, Robert Thomas, and I have a position at Zen Center of President of Zen Center. And I've been involved in a kind of like a strategic planning process at Green Gulch Farm for about the last eight, nine months or so. kind of a visioning process at Green Gulch Farm. How many people have been to Green Gulch Farm that are here? So maybe half people. It's kind of similar to city center, but very different. Organic farm on the coast, just maybe 20 minutes or so north of the Golden Gate Bridge.

[01:01]

They have a Sunday program that's similar to this in their Zendo, huge Zendo. And a community of about 50, 55 students there. And it's not like Green Gulch Farm has been the... So... intentionally neglected or the kind of like, certainly not like the neglected son or daughter, but sometimes I think it feels that way. It was the last center we acquired and first it was Tassajara, then City Center, then Green Gulch Farm. And I think It's oftentimes been a struggle at Green Gulch Farm to make sense of what's happening there and understand how it is that we are practicing there.

[02:16]

There's a farm and there's this and that. So I was going to talk about that kind of visioning or strategic planning process today. And I was thinking about how harmoniously It went, how wonderful the last eight months have been. It was a real education for me because I'd never lived at Green Gulch Farm. Barely knew my way, barely. And when we started the process, somebody would go, well, you go down that path and in this building, I'd have to kind of picture it. Because I've lived here and at Tassajara. But I decided not to talk about how harmonious the process has been at Green Gulch Farm. And I think you'll maybe understand why as I go a little bit further in my talk.

[03:19]

I'd rather talk about what it is that we're learning here at Zen Center. And I'd like to talk about that because it seems to be coming up a little bit, at least in my life, lately. I was in Nevada recently visiting some friends and they were practicing with me at Tassajara some years ago. And then they moved to Nevada and they're... constantly talking about Tazahara and their experience at Zen Center. And people say, well, what is it that you learned at Zen Center? What did you learn there? And then they're kind of stumped for an answer. They were telling me, well, it's difficult. We could say, well, I learned how to make polenta without lumps. I learned how to clean a room. I learned how to tend an altar, sit still maybe.

[04:41]

And then the other night I was at dinner with Susan, the vice president of Zen Center and one of the abbots of Zen Center, Steve Stuckey. And a consultant of ours from Boston and a representative of a foundation in Boston. And we were at dinner and this fellow who was out here visiting from this East Coast Foundation said, so what is it that you learned at Zen Center? He asked Steve. I'm glad he didn't ask me. He asked Steve. Steve gave him a wonderful... answer with full of detail about what it is on the path you come and you gain facility and this and that and you deepen your understanding. And we were all sat there just to happy to be listening to his perspective about what

[06:01]

what we learn in Zen Center. And then the next day I went to Tassajara with this fellow, this fellow from the East Coast. And then we went down and I was in a small cabin up on the hill and I could tell he was still thinking about that conversation with the Av and what we were learning. And even though Steve was, Steve's very... clear down-to-earth communicator, it still had its kind of like, well, what is it? You know, still kind of was not quite, don't quite get it, you know? And I'm sure he was puzzled by some of the things, as Steve said. So I get to Tassajara and behind, I'm in a small cabin that has two parts. Well, I'm in the front and it turns out some old friends of mine are in the back.

[07:03]

Some old friends of ours who used to practice here at Zen Center. Now they moved away. Charlie, Pokorny, Sarah, his wife, and their beautiful daughter, Kaya. And I remembered, I was looking at Charlie and I remembered when we were beginning students together. And we were, this was our second practice period at Tassajara. And Charlie was a real adept in some ways, and I used to look up to him. And so it was nice to see him, see him there at Tassajara. And I remember that we, at one point, we were sitting in a room in a ceremony, a ceremony called a Shosan ceremony. And this is a ceremony where the abbot sits up in this kind of, or the teacher sits up in this fairly elaborate chair and the students are lined up and we go from student to student and everybody asks the teacher a question.

[08:15]

You know, somewhat of a short question and then there's a short answer that cuts right to the essence of their question. And so Charlie's right in front of me. And I got to Charlie's question and he goes... So Mel Weissman was the teacher there leading that practice period. It was Charlie, my second practice period, like I said. And it got to Charlie and Charlie put his hands and got to show. He said, Sojin Roshi. And he goes, hi. Has a staff in his hand, sitting there kind of like a large... He's a frog in a way. He's very stable, you know, and just like firmly holding the staff. And Charlie goes, Sojin Roshi, hi, what is it that we are learning here? So I thought that question was just great.

[09:17]

I mean, wow. So what is it? So what is it that we're learning here? Anybody have any ideas? I'll tell you later. What would you say? Nothing. Interesting. A method for studying the self. Who we really are. Could you say that again?

[10:20]

Learning to pay attention. Definitely. Keith? Putting action to our understanding. To deeply investigate the components of harmony. To deeply investigate the components of harmony. Stability in space. Stability in space. That's beautiful. Lucy? To wake up. To wake up. To learn how to ask questions. Wow. To meet the present moment exactly as it is. To meet the present moment exactly as it is. Did you have your hand up?

[11:20]

Same? To live like a child would? because we lose that maybe somewhere. Peter? I think we make a big effort over a long period of time, even though we don't know what we're trying to do. And then little by little, we see that we were mistaken. It's an acquired taste. and be prisoners of language.

[12:44]

Last one. We learn how to appreciate this life and we learn how to be happy. Okay, last one. To be as we are. Of course, Suzuki Roshi was very interested in this question too. Some time ago, I took up a... Thank you everybody who offered something. It was wonderful to hear your voice. Suzuki Roshi came to America and I'm sure that he must have given it a lot of thought.

[13:53]

What is it that I'm going to teach now? This wasn't just random teachings that he gave. This wasn't just, well, I'll talk about this because I find it interesting. I'm sure he thought about who he was talking to, no doubt. So I've been studying his lectures for some time. And recently I found one that was quite remarkable, and it was on this exact topic, actually. So I'd like to read a little bit from this lecture. It's a beautiful... It's a beautiful talk that he gave, and I'm going to read a few different parts and come back to it a little bit over the next few minutes that we spent together. So this was Saturday evening, August 7th, 1971, about 36 years ago.

[15:00]

Ed Tassahara. He says, he starts by saying, I want to discuss with you about, you know, how you study Zen. Zen is actually, in short, maybe, communication. Communication between your friend and communication between teacher and disciple. Communication between we human being and our surroundings. communication between human being and nature. This, in short, this is, in short, Zen. Not so different from some of the comments that people made.

[16:08]

This, in short, is Zen. I'd like to tell three stories today, if I can get to it. Three stories. Well, two of the stories are rather famous Zen stories, Buddhist or Zen stories. One of the stories is only famous to me. It's not famous to anybody else, but it's one of my famous stories. stories, and I'd like to talk to you, I'd like to tell you those stories in the context of understanding what it is that we're here to learn, or what it is in Zen Buddhist practice that there is to learn. The first story is about, and they're not very long stories, the first story is about Shanavasa, and Shanavasa is the fourth

[17:18]

the fourth ancestor of Zen. In our chant here that we chant every day is Shonawashu. Shonavasa's teacher was Ananda. Ananda transmitted or you could say communicated the Buddha's practice to Shonavasa. Shanavasa communicated it to his disciple, Upagupta. So Shanavasa is the fourth chapter in a book called the Denkoroku. It wasn't a book at that time. We call it Transmission of the Light. And basically it's a story. of the transmission of our practice from the Buddha to the present day.

[18:23]

In this particular book, in Kheison, this was written by Kheison, who is a disciple of Ehe Dogen, the founder of our school, and it has 53 chapters. So this is number four, and the story is rather short. So Shanavasa asked Ananda, ask the question. Isn't that what you said, Lucy? Ask the question. Shanavasa asked Ananda, what is the fundamental uncreated essence of all things? Another translation says, what is the fundamental unborn nature of all things? Ananda pointed to the corner of Shanavasa's rope. Shānavasa asked, what is the basic essence of the enlightenment of the Buddhists? Ananda grabbed the corner of Shānavasa's robe and tugged on it.

[19:30]

Shānavasa was then greatly enlightened. Shanavasa asked this question to clarify, the source of all Buddhas, to clarify his understanding of what he was doing, what he was learning. So the second story is a story about me and... a time not not so not so much after the time when I was there with Charlie and he asked the question he asked Mel the question this was the next practice period I was I was head of a crew in the kitchen and I was it's called the Fukutan this position is called the Fukutan and I had a crew of about maybe

[20:52]

or five people, and I kind of managed the crew, and we got each meal out. Marsha, were you on the crew? Maybe, yeah. Okay, good. So I was Fukutan, and we went in to see the teacher for a tea, and all the crews would go in to see the teacher. At some point, we'd go over to the abbot's cabin and we'd go in and they'd serve tea and this teacher, his name was Reb, and he asked us, well, how's it going? And various people offered how it was going in the kitchen and people said, oh, it's going so great, it's going swimmingly and we are having such a good time and we're making We're getting the food out on time and we're making such good food and I was there. So I was getting very proud of my crew and kind of puffed up and thinking, boy, this is really good.

[22:06]

I'm really looking good here. Everybody just had wonderful things to say about their experience in the kitchen. And Reb was just like, well, well, it sounds like you have an amazingly harmonious group. And we were like, yeah, yeah, very harmonious. Harmonious, Susan. We were really practicing in harmony with each other, you know. And so we walked, tea ended and we walked out of the room. And within seconds of leaving the abbot's cabin, everything fell apart for that group.

[23:08]

Everything completely fell apart. We were arguing with each other. Nobody wanted to do what they'd wanted to do before. People weren't trusting each other. They were, it was like, it was a complete struggle. And that, those next, for two months, it was like that. The next two months. And it was at that time, That I had a choice to make myself personally in that situation. What was I going to choose to do? Was I going to stay in communication with people? Or was I going to stay in relationship with a situation that was falling apart around me?

[24:16]

I thought. And it was at that point that I actually became a student of Zen. So there's one more story I'd like to tell you. And this is a story that Suzuki Roshi talks about in his talk that he gave later on. He talks about this, but I'll take it from the source, which is the Blue Cliff Record. And that story is about two monks, two monks who are roaming the mountains in ninth century China. And one monk, Hofuku, is walking with choki. And Hofuku says, right here, right here. Is the summit of the mystic peak.

[25:17]

Is the summit of the mystic peak. In other words. Right here. Is the essence of the enlightenment of all Buddhas. Right here. Is the fundamental uncreated essence of all things. Right here. Toki says, so it is. What a pity. So, Shana Vasu starts with a question. His answer is a tug on his rope. starts with the answer.

[26:24]

And the response is, what a pity. I started with delusion, kind of a selfish need to be recognized or rewarded or given some credit. But it's not so much where you start in Zen, it's what happens next. Are you going to stick around for what happens next? Are you going to open up into the very next moment and be available To be in communication with what's happening right then. For some reason, luckily I was.

[27:32]

It could have gone very different. I could have decided, no, I'm not ready to be in communication with my life. I'm not ready to be in communication with this difficulty. I'm not ready to be in relationship with the suffering that's coming up for me. Suzuki Roshi says, we say Zen student, and so you must be some kind of a student, but you are students who study Zen. You are not students who are studying something, you know, mathematics or geology or science or physics. You are studying who are you. Didn't somebody say that?

[28:35]

That is why It is difficult to communicate. You don't have to say anything when you sit. And yet you have perfect communication with everything. So this is our reference point in Zen for perfect communication is when we sit. When we sit. We aren't sitting to leave the world. We aren't sitting down in Zazen to... escape our life. We aren't sitting to leave our relationships, but we're actually sitting right down, right in the middle of all of those relationships. We're sitting down to communicate. We're sitting down to find a communication which is the fundamental essence of all Buddhas. And yet you have perfect communication with everything.

[29:46]

If you want to study Zen, first of all, you should know how to study Zen. Then, he says, how to study Zen is to be acquainted always to your surroundings. So it's pretty simple to be acquainted, to pay attention. to what's happening around us. To be in relationship. And what we're talking about here is not some superficial relationship. It's not a relationship that says, this is Mount Mioho. It's not the relationship that says, this is Mount Mioho and that's it. The other monk says, what a pity, because that only says this much. Mount Mioho is so much more.

[30:51]

We have to call it, we call it Mount Mioho. We call it the Buddha. We call it practice. But what a pity they have to say. What a pity. What a pity. We don't have any other way to express ourselves. So we express ourselves fully. And then we stick around for the next moment and see what happens. We stick around and we enter into a deep communication with each other. we enter into a deep communication with our situation extending out as far as we can possibly imagine. We don't even have to imagine, it just extends.

[31:54]

So later on, later on in this evening, that Suzuki Roshi gave the talk, a student, there was some question and answer and the student gets up and says, Suzuki Roshi, why do we bother at all? So why bother? Maybe it's just so simple. I just have to communicate better or something. Maybe why bother? Why bother doing all these things, you know? Suzuki Roshi says, bother to do it? And he sighs. There is many reasons. I cannot give you all the reasons, you know.

[33:05]

But it may be better for you for your practice if I am just usual person and usual teacher of zazen in some usual way. Like a river or a mountain, I exist in that way. That will be better. If I give some reason why mountain is a mountain, is like so, why river runs slow in that way, That is too much. If I give some reason why mountain is a mountain, why river runs slow, that is too much. If you come to the river, you can bathe or drink from it. That is maybe better. I don't want to talk about the reason why I am here or something like that. I don't want to talk about the reason why I am me.

[34:06]

I don't want to talk about the reason why you are you. Instead, it's better to just be in relationship. Say, It's maybe we don't have to, we don't have to. Our practice is not to talk about why the mountain is the mountain, but it's to walk into the mountain and it's to be the mountain. It's to understand in a deep way that the mountain is not separate from us.

[35:07]

The river is me too. Now I've been going into the in my office and there was a poem tacked on the wall and I've been reading the last four lines of this poem for about six months and as I stand there going to the bathroom or something and I've been reading this poem and every time and I just kind of like the cereal box when I was a kid I just stand there read it and I look at it and And it's a beautiful poem. It was written by a woman who did a workshop recently, came to Zen Center and did a workshop with Paul recently.

[36:15]

And I think Paul may have used this in a Dharma talk, her poem. But the last three lines have been something I've been reading. I want to share that with you. I want to be famous in the way a pulley is famous or a buttonhole, not because it did anything spectacular, but because it never forgot what it could do. I want to be famous in the way a pulley is famous or a buttonhole, not because it did anything spectacular, but because it never forgot what it could do. So of course this is a poem. It's a poem so we have to understand it in that way.

[37:15]

It's a poem about a buttonhole and a pulley. But what is it that the buttonhole never forgot? The buttonhole never forgot that it was in relation to the button. The buttonhole never forgot that it was not only in relation to the button, but it's in relation to the rest of the shirt. The buttonhole never forgot that it was not only in relation to the button and the shirt, but to the hands that were going to give it a function as a buttonhole. The buttonhole never forgot that it was in relation to the person whose hands had the ability for that short period of time to button-button.

[38:17]

The buttonhole never forgot that it was in relation to that person's family and that person's friends and that person's community who supported that person in their life for this short period of time that they were In the world. And then it goes on out beyond that. As far as you could go. There's one last thing I want to read from this talk about Suzuki Roshi. Did somebody say understand, see things as they are? Did somebody say that? I think somebody did. See things as they are. So a student asks Suzuki Roshi about seeing things as they are.

[39:20]

And Suzuki Roshi says, yes, see things as it is. And then I'm going to read this word for word here. Suzuki Roshi says, yeah. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah, everywhere. Everywhere. It. When we say everywhere, it means here and here and here and here. Everywhere. But that one thing shall include everything. It means that. Zen means that. Everywhere. Everywhere. So, everywhere.

[40:22]

Here, and here, and here, and here, and here. Everywhere. This is the point. As human beings, it is our failure to understand this everywhere. It's our failure to understand this communication that has no boundary. It's not just communication between us here right now. It's everywhere. It's our failure to understand and to engage with each other in our situations in that way.

[41:26]

That we lose the opportunity of our human life. we should never forget what we can do as human beings. What we can do as human beings. In this world there are many, many different kinds of beings. There are mountain lions, Mockingbirds, frogs, snails, worms.

[42:34]

And these human beings don't have so much choice about how they are in the world, you know. They don't have so much choice. We're very lucky in that way. They're similar to us in that they don't want to suffer, but they're different from us. We have the ability to change. We have the ability to choose We have the ability to understand, we have the ability to learn It is our responsibility to pay attention to the choices we make.

[44:13]

To pay attention to our interdependence with each other and everything, everywhere. And to not say that this is where the limit of my willingness to pay attention is. This is where the limit of my willingness to be in communication is. But to actually deepen that and widen that, our ability to... stay be in communication to be in interdependence with all things now more than ever because actually the future of our planet I believe depends on this ability it depends on our ability to communicate in this deep way

[45:28]

with each other A deep communication that understands that we are actually the mountain. We are the river. We are the coral. We are the eagle. We should never forget, like the button, we should never forget that this is what we can do and we make choices.

[46:56]

We should never forget that as human beings this is our opportunity and our function Thank you all for coming today and I hope that you have a wonderful Saturday. It takes courage to be in communication with each other. It takes courage to become vulnerable. In that way, it takes courage to communicate at a deep level with everything that we engage with. Our situation, people, objects around us.

[48:06]

I wish you courage. May you have that courage. Perseverance. So Charlie asks Mel, what is it that we're learning here? Sojin Roshi, what is it that we're learning here? Chanel said, we are learning to be in harmony with the universe.

[49:00]

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