Thank you, everyone. It's really wonderful to be here again and to get the chance to share some Dharma with you. I've been looking forward to this and had a wonderful meal. The other day I finally came up with a title for my talk. What was it? What is Buddha? Who am I? A Jodo Shinshu perspective on Buddha and beings. And so I think that kind of covers it, huh? Buddha beings. Nirvana samsara. It's like The whole thing in there. One of the things that I really love and appreciate about Buddhism is the flexibility and the fact that it offers us so many different ways to think about things.

[01:15]

And so I think if you ask someone, what is Buddha? Depending on who you ask, you'll get a different answer. Depending on who's asking, you might get a different answer. You could have five people arrange beforehand, go ask him, what's Buddha? And he might give you a different answer to each person. I think that Jodo Shinshu has some interesting thoughts on what Buddha is, and also interesting approach to beings, what it is to be human, what it is to exist. And so I'd like to share some of that with you. And so some of it might resonate a lot with what you're already familiar with. Some of it might be like, what are you talking about? But I think it'll be fun. Jodo Shinju is a school of pure land Buddhism. And so it looks more towards Amida Buddha.

[02:18]

the Buddha of immeasurable light and immeasurable life, right here behind me to my right. And so if you go to a Jodo Shinshu temple, you'll often find a statue similar to this one. And so I think that's one way to think about Buddha, is this kind of physical form, right? Whether it's... And there too, I mean, which Buddha are you talking about? What do you mean when you say what is Buddha? Whether Shakyamuni, the historical Shakyamuni, or eternal Shakyamuni of the Lotus Sutra, or Amida Buddha in his pure land, seated, actually preaching the Dharma to people in the pure land, or maybe Buddha as truth itself, Buddha as emptiness, light, beyond conception.

[03:20]

And the thing I like about Buddhism is we don't have to say just one. We don't have to say this is the only answer. I think all of those are true. And so Jodo Shinshu certainly has, we tell the story of Amida Buddha, culpas in the past as Dharmakara, as a king actually, who decides I don't want to be a king anymore, I want to be Buddha. And so he becomes a Bodhisattva, Dharmakara Bodhisattva, and makes vows in the presence of a Buddha, vowing to establish a pure land, a Buddha land, where people can go to practice. And then this is in the larger sutra of Sakavati, the larger sutra of the pure land, and as a dialogue shows between Shakyamuni and Ananda, what happened? He's Buddha now. He fulfilled his vows. He is Amida Buddha. He's the Buddha of infinite light and immeasurable life, and he's preaching right now in the West to all the assembled beings.

[04:32]

So that's part of the tradition, certainly an important part of it. But for Shinran, I think that the idea of Amida Buddha in the Pure Land maybe isn't so important. And instead, in one text, he talks about how... about Dharma body. I'll get a little bit into Buddha body theory here, right? Dharma body. The Dharma body of suchness. The Dharma body of true reality is beyond conception. It's beyond form. It's beyond anything we can possibly conceive of. It's empty. It's oneness. It's truth-usness. But there's also Dharma body of skillful means. This is kind of a departure from the regular three-body theory. So the Dharma body of skillful means is that truth, that true reality, manifesting as that king.

[05:34]

manifesting as Dharmakara Bodhisattva, manifesting in this person who decides to become Buddha and makes these vows. And through these vows, establish, for Shinran, not so much become Buddha and go to the Pure Land, or be in the Pure Land, but establish the name, Namo Amida Butsu. And so the Nen Butsu is the way, Nienpho in Chinese, Nen Butsu in Japanese, Namo Amida Butsu, the name of Amida Buddha. I take refuge in Amida Buddha. And that's the main, I think generally we can say that's the main practice of Pure Land Buddhism, is reciting this name, Buddha name recitation, Namo Amida Butsu. But in the Pure Land tradition, I think I should point out, there's two kinds of Nembutsu, basically. One is visualization Nembutsu. So the Pure Land tradition also has these instruction manuals of how to visualize the Buddha in your mind's eye, whether it's the Contemplation Sutra or various manuals.

[06:46]

And so that's one kind of Nembutsu that's very important for many Pure Land Buddhists is actually creating a picture of Amida Buddha in your mind. Jodo Shinshu, not so important. if not important at all. There's no meditation in Jodo Shinshu, so it focuses much more on this Buddha name recitation, Namo Amida Butsu. What's kind of interesting is that Nen Butsu, that term that's used to refer to Namo Amida Butsu, Butsu is a Japanese pronunciation of Buddha. The Nen is remembering bringing to mind. It could be in that visualization, but also mindfulness. So that Nembutsu, if we just look at that term, Nembutsu, we can understand it as mindfulness of the Buddha. So in a nutshell, that's my description of Buddha for Jodo Shinshu.

[07:49]

And so it's kind of interesting. Even though if you go to a temple now, you'll usually see a statue. But Shinran seems to have really valued The name. So you'll see sometimes too Namo Amida Butsu written in calligraphy in Chinese. It's standing on a lotus. So it looks like a Buddha image because there's a lotus petal there and above it Namo Amida Butsu. So that Namo Amida Butsu becomes the object of reverence. So it's not even so much the important thing for Shinran is not even so much my recitation of the name. My Nenbutsu isn't so important. Shinran kind of flips it around and actually Namo Amida Butsu is resounding throughout the universe. All the Buddhas praise Amida by saying his name so that Namo Amida Butsu is just constantly all around us. And instead of the important thing being my recitation, the important thing becomes hearing that name, hearing Namo Amida Butsu. And I don't think it's so much through the auditory organ.

[08:52]

It's something deeper. It's like a deep hearing. of Namo Amida Butsu, of this compassionate call of the Buddha. The other part, beings. Sentient beings. We're all Mahayana, pretty much, right? So, is there separation? Is it all one? I think that Jodo Shinshu has some pretty extreme views on what it is to be a being, to not be Buddha. And he talks, Shinran talks a lot about the evil person, the foolish person. Shinran was a monk on Mount Hiei. He was a Tendai monk for 20 years, practicing really, really hard. Finally, it seems, just from the stories that we have, that the harder he tried, the worse it got.

[09:52]

It's supposed to be the other way around. If I try really hard, if I practice really hard, I'll get there. But instead, it was like the harder he tried, the worse it got. He leaves the mountain, encounters Honan, his teacher, who's also pure land, learns about this teaching of Namo Amida Butsu and of Amida Buddha and of all beings being liberated by the power of Amida Buddha. And so... In his writings, he talks so much about the evil person is the object of, so that's salvation, the object of Hamida's compassion. Evil, kind of, we don't like that word so much. What are you talking about, evil? There's no good and evil in Buddhism. I think it's like samsaric. It's someone of the three poisons. of ignorance and attachment and anger.

[10:54]

It's someone who's just all that. Let's go beyond three poisons, 108 bonno, 108 defilements. And Shinran really saw himself as that, as not Buddha. He even says in spots that I'm someone for whom the possibility of becoming Buddha by my own effort is impossible. It cannot happen. I do not have the seed of Buddhahood in me. So this totally goes against Buddha nature kind of thought. It's a very interesting kind of approach. It's kind of depressing, huh? But it's not one or the other. There's a couple of places in Shinran's writing, he quotes from someone named Shandao from China, another Pure Land Master. It's called Kihô Ittai. It's the oneness of beings and Buddha.

[11:58]

Or Nishujinshin, the two kinds of deep mind, the two kinds of deep entrusting. To entrust, to deeply believe, to deeply know that Amida Buddha is God. universal compassion, that he pervades the universe, that his only goal is to save all beings, is one, the whole side, the Dharma side. And then the other side is the being side. And this is, I never start with this part. I'm doing it for you because you're all advanced, right? That Know that you are a person of evil karma, trapped in reincarnation for culpas with never an opportunity for salvation. And know deeply that you could never attain Buddhahood by yourself. But those two together, they're like two sides of the same coin. That only one or only the other would be too much, would be out of balance.

[13:02]

But the two together make the whole, make the experience. So that's kind of the framework, I think, that I want to present you with. But then how do we understand it? It's interesting because we could talk about the status of the Pure Land. Is the Pure Land somewhere over there? Is it 40 billion Buddha miles to the west? Or is it, this is the Pure Land. You just don't know it. I think those are two very different approaches. And we can see this diversity, I think, in the Buddhist tradition. The Buddhist tradition doesn't only teach one thing. We're not even going to mention Theravada. It's going to be something completely different, although there will be obviously overlapping. But I think we have to be really careful to cling to only one understanding or only another understanding. That idea of oneness, Amida Buddha is...

[14:06]

Oneness, it's all one. We're all interconnected. Buddha nature pervades the universe. But I think for Shinran, he accepts that from Amida Buddha's side, or just let's say the Buddha's side. From the Buddha's side, it's all one. It's all empty. It's all interconnected. There's no self. There's nothing to attach to. It's all light. It's all shining, right? From the Buddha's side. But I think that for Shinran, he sees that from the being side, from the side of samsara, that we don't see that. That is not our reality. That I'm me, I'm the... a version of me, at least, that was eating before, that drove across the Bay Bridge, that went into work for a couple hours today, tried to take a day off.

[15:11]

There's continuity. There appears to be some kind of self on this samsaric side. And so that can be confusing, I think. That's where sometimes we try to break through with the paradox, break through this paradox between this separation between nirvana and samsara, And yet Mahayana is telling us, no, but nirvana is samsara. Samsara is nirvana. Shinran really doesn't get into emptiness kind of talk. He doesn't get into that kind of transcending logic of emptiness to try and punch through to nirvana, to enlightenment. I think he really sees that from our side, this is not Buddha. I am not Buddha. If I look at myself, I see that I'm not, usually not carrying on Buddha activity. I'm motivated by anger, by ignorance, by attachment. And yet, and yet, from that Buddha side, and so that's, in Shinshu, you'll hear talk about self-power and other power.

[16:22]

Other power. Is there other in Buddhism? And I think in Shinran's system, I think, yes, that Buddha is other. Buddha is other from me. That I am not Buddha. And so I rely on that other power. That somehow I hopefully encounter that other power. And it's not me going to encounter it. Actually, it's coming into me. If it's up to my effort, then I'm just faced with illusion here and there and my own attachments and my own desires. And so Buddha is always calling out to me. That other power is always reaching out to me. So how do I hear that? How do I encounter that? I think that's a really important question for Jodo Shinshu practitioners. I think sometimes we get too caught up in the, when we say Buddha, when we say Amida Buddha in the Pure Land, we get too caught up in that physical form, right?

[17:32]

And this idea, well, is he going to come flying on a cloud, right? And come, like, tap me on the shoulder and tell me something, right? Is that how I listen to Amida Buddha? Or I think it's more open than that, that we can encounter Buddha, right? We can encounter Buddha in our lives. We encounter Buddha in the acts of other people, the compassionate acts of other people. We encounter Buddha in just a sound or a smell. Sometimes that can just jar us. And so I see the path of Jodo Shinshu as, and this is maybe getting a little unorthodox, like I said, mindfulness of the Buddha, which in one way is Namuamidabutsu, reciting the name. Namuamidabutsu, Namuamidabutsu. But that, that mindfulness of the Buddha is trying to be mindful of Buddha in my life, right? Whether it's trying to be mindful of the Buddha's teachings, trying to be mindful of the Buddha's path and trying to be good, trying not to get caught up in the three poisons, right?

[18:39]

Or just kind of realizing that a lot of times something happens to us and we think to ourselves, why did that have to happen? Why me, right? Why... I don't want to have to do that or whatever, right? We react from our own ego self. But maybe that's an opportunity, right? Maybe it's an opportunity to see myself differently. Maybe it's an opportunity to learn something about myself. And so to me, that's the flip side. So mindfulness of the Buddha and then maybe awareness of myself. With this view of the evil person, it's like, well, then what do I do? how do I live my life? If it's just kind of a given from the beginning that I'm evil, then okay, great, I don't have to do anything. I'm evil. I'm going to run with that. But I don't think that's what Shinran's saying at all. Ethics in Jodo Shinshu then, as someone incapable of Buddha activity, do I then not try to do Buddha activity?

[19:40]

But I don't think so. I think that it's more that we do try. We do try to overcome the three poisons. We do try to be kind to others, to be aware in our lives. And yet, with an awareness of myself, with a kind of mindfulness for when, oh, I actually kind of think I was thinking I was getting pretty good there, that I thought I was kind of advancing maybe. Oh, I'm maybe turning into a good person, right? And then when it kind of all collapses, to be aware of that. maybe not in the moment, maybe later, to recognize when I'm being selfish, or doing things for my own benefit and not for others. And seeing that, and then, okay, that's okay. But one of the things about Amida Buddha and this compassion is it accepts us as we are, that we don't have to change. And this is again where it can be like, great, I don't have to change, I'll just do what I want.

[20:43]

No. I'm accepted as I am. And becoming aware of that, then maybe change becomes possible. If I become aware that, oh, I don't have to change, I don't have to be better, I don't have to be something I'm not, that I don't have to be perfect, then realizing, but if I'm grasped as I am, then I don't want to be like that anymore. It's okay to be like that, so I don't want to be like that. So I see it as this kind of going back and forth between mindfulness of the Buddha, awareness of the Buddha, awareness of the Buddha path, whether it's the Eightfold Path or the Paramitas or compassion or whatever. I want to be like that. I see that this is a possibility. I see that maybe this is a reality, that there is more than just this and just consumerism and taking whatever you can get for yourself or whatever, right? That, oh, wow, there's another way, compassion. Right? Kindness.

[21:45]

I'm going to try. And then realize that under certain circumstances, certain conditions, push the right buttons, and then the anger just goes... Right? Or the attachment is just churning away. Right? And then realizing, oh, I thought I could do it, but wow, but I still have that anger deep inside me. But it's okay. I'm grasped by the compassion of the Buddha. The Buddha grasps me as I am, even with that. Because of that, I'm grasped by the compassion. And then flip back to the trying again. Trying to follow the Buddha path. All the time with Namo Amida Butsu on our lips. So, what time is it? Okay, so let's turn it around to you. Any questions or comments? I thought I left more time than that. I know you got them. Anybody? Well, my grandparents helped to build the temple where you're a priest at.

[22:54]

And I still, even though I'm a Zen, I just don't practice now. But all of my family ceremonies and funerals, and everything's all centered around the temple still. And I guess when I was growing up, you know, we didn't have a Zen double. but it was never sort of a conscious practice. Like you said, you felt that's the main practice into a machine, and I saw my grandparents do that, and parents, and we did, but it wasn't sort of like, it was never sort of exploring what, why we were doing that. So to me, being a third generation of English speaking, Japanese-American, and doing it, it was, I won't say it was meaningless because of the context of being in the temple and at the community and so on, you know, but I guess, you know, I was drawn to Zen because there's a bit of practice. I'm just wondering what you see as sort of the future path of Josephine in the United States.

[24:02]

Oh, boy. I would say... I think for Pure Land Buddhism, recitation of the Nembutsu is the focus. But I think for Jodo Shinshu, the focus is more living. And just living your life. That is the practice. My recitation of the Nembutsu isn't actually that important. But it's not living a life mindlessly. It's living a life mindfully. Mindful of the Buddha, whether it's the Buddha's teachings or the compassion of Amida Buddha. And also being willing to look at myself. Maybe willing to look at stuff that I don't like. I don't think that would be a popular way to do things. People don't want to look at themselves a lot of the time. But I think in the sense that it is a Buddhism, it's for anyone, everyone. So in that sense, I would hope that it continues to exist and goes to people that need it and that it fits their lives.

[25:04]

We have services, and we do sutra chanting, and incense offering, and we have an altar with all the stuff on it. So it's very institutional temple of Buddhism, kind of. I think, though, what I like about coming here and reading what we just, or whatever it is there in the back, all that stuff we did in English, right? I like the idea we're saying it in English, and I don't know, I find it inspiring to go outside of my temple because sometimes I think it becomes kind of rote, for myself anyway. When I'm chanting half the time, I'm thinking, okay, what am I going to talk about today? Oh, what's for lunch? You know, I'm like chanting and the merit transfer section at the end. I don't see myself as having the ability to transfer that, and yet I've been trying to... be more aware, be more in the moment when chanting that. So, yeah, we definitely have the rituals, and yet for a lot of the people, the members that come, they're not regular members anymore, so they're not that familiar with them, or, you know, so, yeah, so the ritual is kind of interesting.

[26:21]

It's like, it has, I think, pros and cons. It's interesting. You have a lot of kind of chanting. I've only said a lot of them, but don't you? It depends. We do, like, the regular dokyo, the regular, like, sutra reading is generally monotone. But, like, the merit transference section at the end, we do. But, like, the merit transference section at the end, we do. So we have some kind of more melodic sections. And then there's the shomyo stuff. So you might be thinking of the shomyo that's more, the tendai kind of, much more melodic kind of stuff. We don't do as much, but we have it in the tradition. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just curious.

[27:24]

Are there... I have to turn the question around. I can try and answer a Jodo Shinshi towards Zen. Historically, they weren't even allowed to talk to each other. During Edo period, 1600 to 1868, because of all the wars that happened before that, Buddhist debate was banned in Japan. So I think Japanese Buddhism has a tradition of not interacting. of not being in dialogue. It wasn't even allowed, because people would start wars over it. Maybe not entire wars, but they'd fight. And so I think that's one of the challenges that Japanese Buddhism has, is for the different Japanese schools rooted in Japan to overcome that kind of sectarian, those sectarian walls. And so I personally love all different kinds of Buddhism. I love Theravada and the different Mahayana schools and Vajrayana, and I've Although I consider myself a Jodo Shinshu practitioner, I take great inspiration from learning about other schools and their different approaches to, well, especially, I mean, the two key issues, Buddha and beings.

[28:36]

Buddha and what it is, how do I live my life? Yeah. So you talked about, you know, that basically the point is to learn how to live mind fully. Mm-hmm. I guess you could have kids or you could go driving or there's no it's totally open is really almost the only thing to hang on to and I mean you know you can go into temple and we bow and we chant sutras but really I think it's totally open live your life So that, because if it was only certain things, then people who didn't or couldn't do those things would be excluded. So Shinran was really talking to hunters, fishermen, people who were kind of on the outskirts of society, if not absolute outcasts.

[29:44]

And yet, they could still encounter the Buddha. They could still encounter the Dharma without having to do anything special, but just Namvamidabuts, Namvamidabuts, Namvamidabuts, just reciting the name. in the midst of their daily lives. So it's that kind of practice. And yet, to call that practice even implies that it requires something of my effort, something of my ability. So ultimately, it's not my Nam Butsu. Ultimately, it's Nam Wong Da Butsu coming to me, trying to crack open that ego shell. So driving is one good thing for my practice because that's the buttons that can get pushed so easily. Yeah. Do we have time for one more? Yeah. It's hard.

[30:59]

What I try to tell them is teach them about compassion, kindness, kindness to others. You know how sometimes Buddhist schools can get, especially Mahayana, can be kind of wisdom schools or compassion schools. And so whenever we talk about six paramitas, we go dana, giving, blah, blah, blah, and they never talk about the other five. We just skip them. Because Yoroshinji is more of a compassion school. So it's teaching them about that, the possibility of that, But then I also teach them they don't have to be perfect. They don't have to be the best. They don't have to be better than anyone else. We want to try to be compassionate. We want to try to be kind, but it's not always possible. That's okay as long as you're not indulging in that. You don't think, oh, I don't have to be compassionate. Great, I'm just going to be mean. So that's, I think, more the message that I give.

[32:04]

And then Namo Amida Butu so often doesn't get explained, huh? So maybe I could do a better job on that. Yeah? So is it like you're saying, Buddha saved me? Are you praying to him? Like, I can't do it for me? In a way, although I wouldn't put it that way. I see it as... Yeah, that doesn't ring true to me, although it might sound like that's what I'm saying, but that's not really how I view it. It's becoming immersed in Buddha reality in the midst of samsara. Looking for anything, to me, anything that teaches me something about myself, anything that shows me something about who I am, and especially Three Poisons related, I see that as Buddha.

[33:07]

I try to see that as Buddha teaching me. So it's much less of a school of, I'm going to be perfect. I'm going to do the path 100% perfectly, no matter what. Which is great, and I think I've felt that way in my life. It's more kind of the other direction of, man, I was mad right now, and for what? But how did I find that out? So I'll give you a quick example. I used to work at Cody's Books. That was a good place for practice. Telegraph Avenue. And one day I was at the information desk and this woman comes and she's like, give me the, I want my book. I said, okay, what book is that? That one over there. Can't you see it? That's the one. So I was like, okay, you kind of have to show me what book you're talking about. And I consider myself a pretty mellow guy, pretty laid back. I got really mad. I could feel it. Like the fire. inside just like flaring up right and fortunately someone came along and uh i think she must have taken the call and said oh yeah i know that book here here and like took her away right um and so people around me were saying wow she was horrible i mean they were using worse words than that right they were they were like you know saying how horrible a person she was and i just in a flash i said no she was a bodhisattva she was teaching me because at that point i was seeing myself as a pretty good person

[34:33]

But I wasn't being compassionate then. I was responding in the anger mode. And so I looked at that as Buddha teaching me, as Buddha activity coming to me to help me along the path. So to a certain extent, I think there is a wanting to try, a wanting to try to walk the path, to practice, to do Buddha practice, Buddha activity. And yet, For me, the reality is hit the right buttons and it's not going to happen. And yet, seeing that is part of that relationship. So I think that Jodo Shinshu is not so much about me trying to be Buddha. It's trying to encounter Buddha teaching me, helping me. No?

[35:37]

You don't want to be liberated by the great compassion? Shakyamuni Buddha, but not eternal Shakyamuni. And I have to acknowledge, this is one of the challenges that I'm having, is recognizing... But that's what I love about Buddhism, though, too, is that we don't have to only have one of these answers. On one level, absolutely, it was a human guy. Come on, there's no six realms of reincarnation. There's no culpas of whatever. There's no king in some mythical other dimension who's like becoming a bodhisattva. On one level is 21st century rational scientific human beings. Absolutely. But at the same time, wow, maybe there's something more than just the material. Maybe there's something more than just human beings and anthropology and sociology. How does it work? Is there something more? Is reality just cold and empty and dry? Is it space? Space is deep. There's a Hakuin song. Space is frightening.

[36:39]

Space, oh my gosh. It could be extremely horrible. I think that's the view a lot of us have. I have it too. But what I've taken from Buddhism is that there's more than that. That there is something more than just the chemicals that make us up. I think that... On one level, yeah, absolutely, we're chemical processes, we're karmic processes. It's very much beyond my control. But I've also learned from teachers and from, you know, studying Buddhism and, you know, that maybe there's something more. Maybe there is something calling to me. Maybe there is something grasping me, the compassion. And I don't expect to make you believe that either. Even with all the emptiness and

[38:20]

and paramita stuff. See, I've given up on trying to make everything not Christian, to say, okay, the Christians own this, and so I'm not going to touch that. I used to feel that way more, I think, but just from what I've learned from my teachers, and I don't think they were Christian. I honestly believe that they're a Buddhist. And I think I could, speaking in a different, because I feel connections with Tantric Buddhism and using the passions. And sometimes with Zen, I feel that there's something similar there, where they just, to me, seem to be different mirrors off of a similar phenomenon or whatever. There have been times where there's something happening that I feel like I can't figure out what to do.

[39:39]

I've got to fix something, I feel overwhelmed, or there's a feeling I can Can't you worry this, you know, like that. And when it gets to be so much, I offer it up to Tara. I offer it up, and I said, I offer this to you. And it's in that moment. I think I'm just understanding this. that I'm no longer in the illusion that I have a separate self. I have to do everything. I am a part of everything, and everything is a part of me. And so, it's like the understanding of that in the form for me of saying, I need help. I'm not asking you to say it, because who can save me?

[40:42]

So it doesn't, that doesn't, it wasn't brought up to a Christian, at a Christian conditioning, so it doesn't hurt me. But it's that, I can't do this by myself. And then doing that, I realize, I don't have to do this by myself, because I'm basically not by myself. So it's the act of asking for no, that gives that comfort to her. And so, So I had a different understanding of this, my practice around this. And I haven't got to that until I heard these different points of view about this. I really appreciate the different points of view. And I do too. As much as I don't want to hear it, I do want to hear it. The criticism. I'm open to that because... Can we get one more in there?

[41:42]

Yeah, let's do that. One more. To me, the difference between Ben and... That's the name? Pure Land. Pure Land. Between the great practices of Ben and Ben, we're trying to let go. Is this your name? That type of practice? where I think you're trying to fill yourself with the name of the Buddha. But do you see that? Is that a main difference in your practice? Well, to me, it almost seems like the letting go works for me, too, because it's trying to, in acknowledging the ego self, letting go of it, trying to manifest Buddha activity in my own life, with the recognition that there's something really stubborn in the way, myself, right?

[42:47]

And so I actually kind of like the let go kind of thing too, for Pure Land maybe, yeah. Okay. Yeah, so ultimately, Buddha and beings are one, ultimately. Just in the ignorant side, I would say no, that Buddha and being are separate. But thank you, thank you. So let's close with that. And I mean, that's what gassho is, right? The left hand symbolizing samsara, which is why in our school we hold the ninju in our left hand, and then right hand symbolizing nirvana, right? So that in gassho, Buddha and beings become one or are one. For more information, please visit sfcc.org and click giving.

[43:58]

May we all fully enjoy the Dharma.

[44:01]

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