Good evening everyone, thank you for coming. I think I know all of you, and maybe not everyone, but most everyone here. And you all, I think, know Wendy Johnson by now, either from the past, or if anyone doesn't know Wendy, I'll give a little background. Wendy was the head of our garden for many, many decades, and raised her family here, and is our near neighbor in Muir Beach, where she continues to be one of our teachers, and an inspiration for the garden and the farm, and all the plants and animals. So, when Linda and I were thinking about this summer program, and what might be topics that would be relevant to our life together in community, one of them that seemed so obvious

[01:03]

was raising children. We raise vegetables, that's clear, but we also raise children, and we've raised many children in this community over the years. Some of them are now having children, you all know Maceo, I think, Taya's son. And it's not a straight line, probably not so different than vegetables either, but raising children has some twists and turns and complications that make us into the grown-ups that we are. So, we wanted to talk about our experiences as mothers in this community, and I thought Wendy and I are kind of an excellent contrast, in that my path at Zen Center has been to ordain, and I had no plan particularly to have a child. My daughter's adopted, and I'm going to tell you a little bit of the story of how

[02:07]

she came into my life. Whereas Wendy, I've always thought of as a mom, you know, even, I think I first met you, you were a mom already, Jessie, who's now 23, was a little kid running around here like Lucas when I first came to Zen Center. So, in my mind, Wendy embodies family, mother, and so on, and she's raised two children here. So maybe our stories, we haven't told our stories to each other yet, so it's going to be interesting to see what comes out here. So I stopped by the office on the way over, and I actually had this thought as I was checking my mail, sometimes something really interesting happens just before you go to give a talk, you know? And I wonder if anything will happen. There wasn't anything in my mail, and I thought, well, you know, it doesn't always work, until I got to Newsweek. New Yorker, I mean. Can you see it?

[03:08]

What is it, a baby? It's a baby with strings, manipulating its mother. It's called the Puppet Master. All right, the universe hasn't failed. So I brought some notes and some of my thoughts. I wanted to begin my part of the story by telling you a couple of Sabrina's stories. And one of them, it's Sarah. Sarah, are you here? Sarah reminded me of... Sarah did the other story. I didn't mean to put her on the spot. Anyway, Sarah reminded me this morning that she'd heard a story about Sabrina, actually, and she told me the story, and I remembered it. I remembered the occasion. There's a game that we play driving in the car called I Spy With My Little Eye.

[04:14]

And we try to figure out something and guess what it is. Something blue or something, you know, like the yellow line down the road is a good one. Something yellow. And so one time we were playing and Sabrina said, I spy with my little eye something clear. And I guess the sky and the windshield. And she said, no, it's my mind. Pretty good, huh? That's my kid. And the other one that I remembered recently that really amazed me was when she was quite a bit littler. Maybe, I don't know, maybe three and a half. And there's a morning routine which we've still not mastered. Maybe you've mastered the morning routine, but it's getting the kid ready for whatever it is. And so Grace and I were, you know, each one putting on one pant leg and one putting on the shirt. And constantly referencing the clock, you know, come on, Sabrina, you've got to get going.

[05:20]

It's time to go. And finally she said, where are you going, Mom? And I said, I'm going to work. And she said, do you work in the clock? Uh-huh. Yes, indeed. So that's, she pointed to the schedule right there. Our main teacher at Zen Center is the schedule. So anyway, I also remembered another story which is one that Gregory Bateson, who some of you probably know, particularly those of you studying environment, he's a really important thinker about environment. He wrote Ecology of Mind and Mind and Nature and many other things. And he actually died at Zen Center years ago. I know Wendy knew him. I didn't know him so well, but I heard him teach a few times. And our guest house, there's a picture of Gregory Bateson. The house is dedicated to the Linda Sarn Fellows.

[06:22]

He was one of those. And he came to Sashin one time and he said, I want to tell you about a computer that they've created that thinks like a human. And to test this computer, the scientists have typed in a simple question, do you think like a human? And the computer, after a bit of time doing its thing, printed out, that reminds me of a story. So I actually think that's a very important point, that we communicate and think and act from stories. And the stories are not just significant. I mean, it's the entire basis of our life and every choice we've ever made is out of some kind of personal myth or some story that we have currently running or was running.

[07:25]

So this last practice period, Linda Ruth was telling a story about Beowulf to all of us that many of you have already read. I hadn't, so it was a new story to me. And what really struck me was how helpful that idea of this monster that's kind of eating at you. I don't know, some of you were in the practice period, but the short form is that in Beowulf, there's a monster that comes into the palace every night, Grendel, and eats the guests. And the king is pretty distressed about this. And so Beowulf comes, the hero, and slays the monster. And everyone has a big party to celebrate. And then that night, Grendel's mother comes, who's very angry that her son has been killed, and really wrecks havoc. So one of the ways Linda was helping us with this is to tell us,

[08:30]

a lot of times, whatever it is that's eating you, that's kind of bothering you, and oftentimes there's a pattern there, it seems kind of familiar, the same sorts of things bug you, that's probably Grendel. And if you spend some time on your cushion or in your closet or somewhere quiet by yourself, you'll begin to notice that Grendel has a mom, a great big mom, that has been around a long time. And that the roots of that thing that's eating at you goes way, way down and deep in your memory, in what we carry as memory. I've been working with a very kind man who's a trained therapist for a long time now. Since, actually, I became a mom, I thought it was a good idea to start to clear up some of my own family holdings, psychological holdings.

[09:31]

And oftentimes he'll say to me, What does that remind you of? And almost without fail, I say, Mom? Not my mother again? So over and over again, I find that my emotional holdings, what's eating me, is related to the child I was and how I didn't know how to put together a response to my own mother, or anyone else for that matter. And I made some things up which I haven't yet learned how to undo or stop doing, even though they're not really so useful anymore. So I think along with our practice, the practice of working with a therapist is to become conscious of these forces. And the more you see them, the more light there is on them. You go down into the water after Grendel's mother, and you get a good shot at her. There's a lot of relief in that, less of the overpowering feeling of unconscious motives.

[10:37]

So one of the stories that I feel is at the root of Buddhism, just not my idea, but actually is at the root of Buddhism, is the story of the young prince, Shakyamuni. And I think one of the things that inspired me about his story was that he left home. And he, as a young man, had a pretty nice situation in his life. He had loving parents and lots of relatives and aunts and uncles and friends, and he was well liked and loved by his teachers. He had a nice horse and beautiful clothes and jewels and weapons. And he had a wife and a young baby, a child whose face was like the moon. Rahula. Probably, you know, I look at Maceo sometimes.

[11:41]

Rahula, face like the moon. Rahula means little fetter, that which binds you. So this young man went to the gate of his much-loved home and turned his back on his village and made what's called the lion's roar, I will not return to this home until I have found the cause and end of suffering. So this story, which is really, I think, so core to our present-day practice, our own personal practice, on many levels, at the level where Grendel is and at the level where Grendel's mom is living, and in how we form this community. And the idea of home leaving, of renunciation, of taking off your hair, your status, letting go of your possessions, your notions, your attachments, is critical to our practice.

[12:46]

But there are many implications of that story for us personally and as a community. And I think for me, having come from the side of that story, as a young monk, I was inspired to leave home and to not form long-lasting relationships. And I actually had a vow of my own, echoing whatever I read of the Buddha I wanted to do. So I'm going to the monastery alone was my personal vow. And I did. And spent many years there, several years, three years there. And I'm grateful, very deeply grateful for that time. And I was thinking that, you know, I'm not sure that all of the reasons I had for going there weren't Grendel, weren't kind of symptomatic of what was really ailing me.

[13:54]

But I thought the decision, even though it might have been based on wrong thinking, was a good decision. I'm very grateful that I did monastic practice and spent those years sitting in the zendo at Tassajara. So, but the product of those years, when I think back on myself, was slightly stiff. I think I came out of monastic training, I was Kyoto bound. I had decided my next step was to go to Kyoto and study tea ceremony and Zen and become more of whatever I was becoming as a Zen student, kind of profession of my deep affection for the forms of practice. And at that point I was in a relationship with my friend Grace and we both had discovered we were going in different,

[14:55]

our visions were different, our stories were different. Her motivating story was to go to Nicaragua and help people in a little clinic out in the countryside. That was her vision. And I had this one of going to Kyoto. A little different drift, kind of polar. So it was kind of getting to be like, well, bless you and bless you and au revoir. And it was about at that point in time, I was living here in the pond house, when we got a call. It was a nice day, as I recall. The phone rang. Grace was on the phone for about five minutes, an old friend. And she said, well, I'll have to call you back, I need to talk to Phu. And she hung up and then she said, would you like to hear about a baby? I actually had my passport photos. And, you know, I think this was Rendell's mom calling, actually.

[15:56]

When I reflect. And I was really a stumper. I didn't know what to say. I'd never had a question like that asked me before. And I'm still stumped. Would you like to hear about a baby? I must have said yes. And I heard about a baby, a little baby was born. And she was pretty sick. And she needed... The woman who called was a friend of Grace's from college. And she was in a prayer circle with Sabrina's mother. And Sabrina's grandmother. And the grandmother was telling about the little baby who'd been born and said, boy, I don't know, this child's going to need two mothers. And Grace's friend said, I know two mothers. And they called from the meeting.

[17:04]

It was that very meeting where we got the call from. And we happened to be home. And there they are. And within a week we brought Sabrina home. It was a very short gestation. And it was amazing. It was kind of like the waters parted. Everything that should have stopped us from taking home this baby evaporated. We had no license to have a foster child. We had no experience of raising children. I said, we got to the hospital to pick up this child. I have a picture of us in my red Honda in front of the Pond House, waving goodbye to go get the baby. And we got to Santa Rosa where she was in the hospital there. She was a month old. Hi, Lucas. Good.

[18:06]

She'd never been out of an air-conditioned nursery in her month of life. She was born with a lot of drugs in her blood. She was pretty drug-addicted at birth. And so they'd taken her from her mother. And so she was pretty uncomfortable and very beautiful. Weighed about five pounds, about that big. And they gave her, they handed her to me and Sabrina. So she was okay until we hit the automatic doors. This was in June in Santa Rosa. And we went outside and it was like walking into an oven. It was so hot. And she started to scream. And she didn't stop. Of course, we put a little hat on her.

[19:12]

We bought her a fancy little hat and an outfit for going home, right? So a little lace hat and all this stuff. And she was hot and screaming. And I kept saying to Grace, do something. What do you do? She said, I don't know. I said, what do you mean you don't know? You're a doctor. Why don't you know? So that was the beginning of a long parenting relationship that we appreciate. So anyway, there's not much else to the story. Seven years of parenting, I feel, has been... The Grendel's mom is really kind of a saint. She really had my interest at heart and knew that what I needed, this is just for me. I'm not talking about anyone else's path. I mean, everyone has their own unique way of coming into life. But for me, home leaving really was, for me, was leaving Tassajara.

[20:15]

Because Tassajara was my home. And it still is my home in a very deep and true way. And to leave that place where I was content and felt very whole, like I knew what I was doing and I was on time for things, and to come to chaos where I don't know what I'm doing and I'm really confused. There's another Samina story. I guess she was about three or three and a half. And she was laying in bed with me, and she reached her little arm over, put it around my neck, and she said, Come to me, my child. I swear to God. Come to me, my child. And I looked at her and I thought, Who are you? Who are you? Stranger and stranger. So I did, and I have, and I always will.

[21:21]

So I just wanted to end with, if I could let Wendy have the rest of her time. For me, I think what's been true of having this child is it's almost like the reverse birth process. She came inside of me and made me bigger. She forced me into getting bigger than I was going to be, or that I had any desire to be. And it's not over yet. She's not a teenager yet. And I just have such respect for mothers and for mothering and for also reviewing my own childhood through experiencing my own child. Anyway, it's a deeply satisfying world to share, to be with children, to know children, to let them near you. I recommend it to all of you. Charlotte Selber was telling me today,

[22:25]

Sabrina, we're not so close. I've never been good with children. But tell her hello. And I said to Sabrina, Charlotte said hello. Sabrina said, why is she so old? She was born 100 years ago. I don't think that's the only explanation. So I want to read you a poem to end. It's called If She Only Had One Minute. What would she put in it? She wouldn't put, she thinks. She would take. Suck it up like a deep lake. Bloat indiscriminate on her last instant. Feast on everything she had released, dismissed or pushed away. She would make room and room as though her whole life of resistance had been for this one purpose. On the last minute of the last day, she would drink and have it,

[23:28]

ballooning like a gravid salmon or the moon. Oh, tell him. No, you do that. Oh, she said I had a profound insight. I don't know. But anyway, about the Buddha, that his decision to leave home was, he wasn't the Buddha then. I just thought about that a few years ago. He was the young prince when he left home. The Buddha didn't leave home. The Buddha went back home after he was awakened. He returned and met his family again and actually his son became a disciple. I think that's a beautiful story,

[24:32]

beautiful perception, strong. I appreciate so much one of our Dharma brothers, Mike Port, Dosho Mike Port, who is the lead teacher and Dharma boy at Clouds and Water Zen Do in St. Paul, Minnesota. He does a special ordination ceremony. I think the way it goes is that when you receive lay initiation, it's called the homecoming ceremony. You come home to your deepest intention and the priest ordination is home leaving. But he plays a lot with that whole notion of what it means to come home and to leave home. And a lot of that conversation comes up in a very strong way when you're practicing with children, either having children or inheriting children

[25:34]

or being presented with the opportunity to practice next to children. I have to disclaim a little bit what Fu said. We have this joke, the two of us, that she's dressed in her robes with a shaved head, walking around with a long scythe as the Grim Reaper, taking down everything. It's lovely. And I'm following along behind her wearing pink overalls with messy hair and a backpack and one breast out ready for whatever baby comes. And seeds. But, you know, when you peel back the layers, we can change places. We can change places, you know, and surprise each other. Like I remember feeling when Sabrina came home and helping you and Grace get the bed ready.

[26:35]

They were really funny. They didn't know how to do anything. I used to go out on the porch of what is now Lucas's room and just laugh. They were hovering about that baby like vultures around carrying it. She was just running the whole show. It was really remarkable. What an incredible story. What an incredible practice this has been on welcoming children into our lives. And it's so nice to be able to sit in this room and turn the mystery together and really look at what it is we think we're doing. How do we actually do this practice of being cloud and water wanderers willing to live and die together and include noisy little people? When Jesse was born 23 years ago,

[27:37]

he was born in what was the field trailer where Nancy and Daniel and Olivia were living until it was taken down recently. And that beautiful crabapple tree right outside the door was planted on his placenta. So you can imagine, if we think when we build a house there that that tree is going to go, I'll be chained to the tree, Redwood Mary. It seems like a dream, but it also seems like it was really just yesterday. I was 30 years old and full of this extraordinary, vivid life living in that trailer. And there were a number of us having children at that time. I remember kind of the people that have been involved in a primary way in creating Zen Center over the years. It was quite a class. Kathy and Norman Fisher,

[28:39]

Layla Bachhorst, Rusa and Rab, Layla and Jim Bachhorst, Rusa and Rab. Gosh, who else was born then? Leslie was pregnant shortly after, Leslie, James and Keith. Elizabeth? Elizabeth Baker. Virginia and Richard Baker. Sawyers. They were earlier, Ken and Betsy, Ken and Elizabeth Sawyer. Oh, Dan Welch and Louise Welch. Many, many people who were, Darlene and Tony, Patchell, McAnana, Paula. We were doing it, trying to figure out how to practice on the front lines, wholeheartedly, and also raise children. I remember washing dishes with Kathy Fisher. One day she was furiously scrubbing the dishes and there was something different about her

[29:40]

and I said, How are you? And she turned around and she said, Pregnant. Just like that. I'll never forget it. And she looked terrified. She had good reason to look terrified. It's interesting. Very different story. I remember Christina saying, Christina Lernhart, saying years ago that what was special about Sabrina coming into the community is the whole community had to consider whether she could be here, be with us, and we were asked, Can this baby come? Whereas if you breed and spawn and create offspring, you more announce it, like Kathy Fisher announced to me. You don't exactly plan. There's not real planned parenthood going on here at Zen Center. So I think for those of us that did the deed and produced the offspring, we were as astonished and unprepared as the Sangha

[30:41]

for what that meant. And yet there was a kind of eagerness and willingness to jump into it, the fray. And those children who've grown up at Zen Center are extraordinary beings. I was saying to Fu, we could do this tonight, but it would be so wonderful to have a few sessions during the summer where we welcome Micah Sawyer, who's now a father, a father of two. Maybe, I don't know, Ethan Patchell or Joanna Welch, and Taya, Jesse. Have Sarah Weintraub come and talk a little bit about what it's... Iva? Iva in Richmond. Iva in Richmond, yeah, who's really interested in this. Have them come and sit up here, and many of them are your age, and have them talk about what it's been like to grow up in this community where they've both been welcome, but also not very welcome.

[31:43]

And that's one of, I think, our cons worth examining, a public case we want to be able to examine and talk about. Because it's been incredible to have the opportunity to raise children here. Our son Jesse's lived his whole life here. He was born in the trailer and raised here, and raised a lot of hell here. If you look on the edge of the Wheelwright Center down below where it says, it looks like The, and Jess, it was the beginning of Thea signing her full name, and she got caught. T-H-E-A. Thea! Because he's underneath, and we've never been able to white it out. His lipstick. It's there forever. Did they do it with lipstick? I think so, and I think Jesse wrote Thea's name. Right, oh there, that's even better. Right, that's why she wrote his name. Oh. Sounds like one of their lines. Yeah. Anyway, it's been such an extraordinary experience raising children here

[32:45]

and then having them go out into the world with this experience. I remember when Jesse was in third grade, he had a wonderful teacher named Katie Ibanez, a marvelous, strong teacher. She was very fierce and very determined to raise strong kids. She did drawing. This was long before this. I think many teachers have figured this out, but I think probably Katie Ibanez was one of the first people. She said, If I see one more child, boy child, drawing a spaceship and girl child drawing a happy, smiling face, I'm going to scream. She would post great art and then have the children close their eyes and open their eyes and produce what the great art had evoked in them. Wonderful, wonderful drawing. She was a great teacher. She loved to come here, and I remember her asking after Jesse graduated from third grade, So, who's next in the Zen Center lineup? We said, Well, there's nobody for a while. She said, How could you do that to us? She really enjoyed

[33:47]

the Zen Center children because they were complex, she put it, and it made them be better teachers. I think for the Zen Center children growing up here and being transported to Mill Valley, we had a van, a yellow school bus, which was the same kind of bus that used to bring special needs children to school and guard children. I remember Sean Gregg begging us to let him off at the corner, Please! Please! Stop the bus here. Please don't drive us in. Oh, no, no, no. We don't want you to be late. Please! We would drive around. Mindful, bald person. He would get out wearing his dress and open the door and bow goodbye to the children. Once, Sean hid underneath the seat

[34:49]

until Steve, it was Steve Stuckey, until Steve Stuckey got back to the road and then Sean jumped up and threw open the door and ran out. It was really hard for them. Sally Baker telling us about her father, Richard Baker. Richard Baker and Virginia Baker raised Sally in Japan in the early years of her life. She was being picked on by some of the children in her school in Japan. So Baker, being six foot four, went to a conference wearing a white Stetson cowboy hat and his Zen robes. He so terrified the Japanese children that they left Sally alone for a long time. So somehow, there was a kind of, there's so many stories, it's just amazing

[35:52]

thinking about just even opening the door a little crack, they come up. Thinking about this question of home leaving and home coming and how we make home here without capturing the place and changing the quality of life so much that it's not recognizable. How do we do that? In the early years when we had our children, many of us were in our twenties and coming out of very ardent practice. And so when the first babies came, we thought, well, we'll just continue practicing under all circumstances. And we had, in morning meditation, everyone went to the Zendo. Everyone. Whether or not you had a baby didn't matter. There was a child watch who went around and looked in the windows to make sure the babies were asleep. And I remember sitting in the meditation hall thinking I was going to die. Sometimes you could hear the babies

[36:53]

and you knew the child watch wasn't there. And in any case, what's the child watch going to do? It'd be like Foo and Grace meeting Sabrina. I mean, child watch looking in the window and Hannah Stuckey is screaming her head off. What do you do? You don't want to pick her up. You want to... We'd hear them running like this to the Zendo to get us. And then sliding to a halt and coming in very mindfully. Tapping. A fully lactating mother would leave the Zendo. Pulsing mammary glands. Huge wet spots. It was really something what we did to each other. So... It's practicing Zen with children on the frontier. On the frontier of life. You know, in about 1980, 1983 or 1984, Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh

[37:54]

visited Green Gulch and he did a retreat here. He said to us, You have the most wonderful opportunity for practicing walking meditation and living a joyful life and yet you are the grimmest people I've ever met. He said, What is this? What's going on? Do your children... Are your children welcome to meditate? And we said, Are you kidding? Our children meditate? We never... I'd never taken Jesse in the Zen. I wouldn't dream of it. He wouldn't behave and he would discredit me as an already well discredited parent. He would make it worse. So I never thought of doing that and he encouraged us to try, to experiment with bringing the children in the meditation hall. And in fact he offered to do it. So I still remember that experience of Thich Nhat Hanh coming in in a very kind of quiet measured pace with the children and holding on to the hands of our children and bringing them in the Zen Do and it was very moving actually. They were about seven or maybe

[38:55]

seven or eight, nine years old. This little clutch, Thea and Jesse and Hannah and Sarah and Elizabeth Baker and other children, Aaron and Noah. And they sat beautifully for about oh, I don't know, ten or twelve minutes. And when they were ready they had decided as a body that they would acknowledge that they were ready to move and they would get up and very slowly walk out of the Zen Do. And every Sunday for quite a while we had a meditation period where children were welcome. And they sat on the back with us and then when it was, when they were ready of course the twelve minutes got shorter and shorter. I think finally it was down to about three and a half minutes. But they did, we did do it. We had an effort, we made an effort every Sunday afternoon to have full communities of everybody come. And it was it was quite a, quite a moving experience. But you know, for me so much,

[39:55]

so much of those years was my involvement with trying to balance following the meditation schedule, working fully and raising, and this whole secret life of raising a child or being raised by a child, a whole secret life that you can't even speak about. And actually I've never really liked children that much. It's interesting. I, I feel like, I feel like a very childish person myself. You know, but it's such a mistake to think of me as Mother Earth and a lot of people do. Except if you really think, think of Mother Earth as being fierce with long fangs and eating her children and spitting them out and then some of that is true because we've had some really intense times in trying to figure out how to parent and how to practice at Zen Center with our children. I remember Reb in the

[40:56]

dining room with Thea. Thea had just finished nursing. She was little and he was bouncing her up above and smiling at her and she went all over her father. He didn't miss a beat. He just Russa passed him a napkin just shaking her head and he kind of wiped off his silk rock suit and kept going. I remember those years so vividly. Maybe, I mean, watching the babies in the dining room now I think I remember so much all these years of endeavoring to find out how we actually do this. Except I think in the early years we tried to really have them fit into our life but now it seems like there's a little bit more looser grid but in the early years they were meant to sit through silent meals you know and not be there was a I think they've grown up their single deepest syllable is probably shh shh their home syllable and if they never shh ever they would talk and be playful and you know

[41:58]

do all the things the babies do in the middle of our life and somehow we kept going we kept we all kept going. A sense of humor probably helped and a sense of camaraderie that did come from sitting together and enjoying the beauty of the children but it has been a real challenge it'd be interesting to talk with you about it in a few minutes discuss together but it is real real Dharma practice to to work closely with our children and and learn from each other not just a one-way learning but I think Dogen says very beautifully you know it's not just the mother makes the baby the baby makes the mother and it's it's such a mutual process

[42:58]

somehow doing this together and also respecting respecting the practice and deep desire of some practitioners not to breed and create children not to produce children to live in harmony and connection honoring our different vows and it really comes up when there are little people running around those differences for those of us who parented in the early late 70s and early 80s we collected a lot of stories and a lot of wonderful experiences and some of them are written written down in this book we have it in the office Dharma Family Treasures and I wanted to read you two from Zen Center children commenting on their life at Zen Center

[43:59]

here's a delightful story from Sarah Nancy Cutts Winetrap Linda, Ruth and Steve eldest child my parents say some unusual things for example a few days ago I pushed my little brother and pretended nothing happened my mom instead of saying don't push your brother or something like that said think about your state of mind when you push your brother laughter another incident happened this morning I was about to eat my corn meal and molasses when I noticed two brown dots on the edge near the side of the bowl daddy I said what are those things they are the pre voice of the 10,000 molasses

[45:02]

laughter answered my father what's pre voice asked my brother Dave so my dad explained there are 10,000 Sarahs and 10,000 Davies if I'm 10,000 I don't have to ask to be excused from the table cried Dave laughter he jumped off his stool and put his head through the arm of my dad's vest then he began dancing around and around the room did you just see it so Davey laughter to remember to write this I wrote Zen Center story on my hand my brother Dave told me to write Davey is 10,000 on his hand laughter so much for Zen teaching laughter beautiful story and Jana Kabarga in San Francisco Pat Phelan Tom Kabarga's daughter called it not chanting during the meal chant

[46:02]

before dinner at Zen Center sometimes Audrey and I would say the chant adding not laughter so we'll do it together who and I will do it together I'll poke you when you're supposed to say not innumerable labors did did bring us this food not we should not not know how to not we should not know how it comes to us receiving this offering we should not consider whether or not laughter whether our virtue and practices and so on laughter just listen to their stories James Asher tells Lea Leatrice Asher and Steve Stuckey his adopted son tells the story of the whole hierarchy

[47:03]

within the community of children he says you know there were the older children who picked on the middle-aged children who eventually and and avidly picked on the babies so there was this whole little hierarchy and pecking order going on amongst the children's sangha James tells the story of walking up the hill and I remember them going up the hillside to get the bus they would stream up the mountain we'd be so happy when they left streaming up the mountain to get the school bus when they finally convinced us that we shouldn't drive them to school they were very strongly in favor of going up the hill and going with the other kids on the main bus and at the top the older kids said to James you know what we have a special chocolate chip cookie for you a really good one and they put it in his lunchbox and he said he knew it was one of these really good ones from the cookie jars not from Zen Center not from the Tenzo but from the cookie jars because it was big and flat and he was so excited and he got to school and he was so excited he couldn't wait because it was a store-bought cookie and he opened up his lunch and opened up the bag

[48:03]

and there was a flattened cow poop from the bigger kids but he said it kind of woke up in him a similar desire to visit the same kind of revenge on the next generation so it's really amazing what's happened and I think and how much how much the children know about us I remember one skit night Robin and Jesse and Taya and a few other children here imitated us dressed up as us Taya did an incredible imitation of her dad and Robin imitated me I just all I remember about that imitation beside the searing pain that I felt watching it laughing laughing laughing she had a backpack on the front and a spade and green clogs and her hair was all grey laughing and she was

[49:04]

trying to do twenty things and that's all she did she just made a cameo appearance and I was aw laughing anyway laughing we have such an extraordinary opportunity to to investigate together what it means to leave home and come home um and children bring these questions right up to the front it doesn't have to be children many different issues can bring um those questions forward but children are very effective in doing it I have a um a song that I wanted to play but we don't have a um a tape recorder here that plays does somebody have a boom box that's got a tape recorder close enough so that we could get it it'd be a wonderful way to close this session I think it'll make you laugh is there one close enough a tape Clark Hall hm Clark Hall would you mind oh that's so sweet

[50:05]

leave mindfully and then run laughing um this group is um there's a group in um Michigan um um a group of uh Sansonine students and they've um made this wonderful tape of um songs from their practice life from the center of their practice community including uh songs that children have helped with um so a few people um heard this song last Sunday a few people in the Buddhism and Ecology class but I thought it would be interesting to uh to play it because there's been one of the wonderful things about practicing with children are there all these fresh expressions of um meditation and um naughty meditation that come out of the lively connection of working with kids so um and you never quite know what you're going to get one um

[51:06]

one practitioner came to Gringotts many years ago and recorded in our meditation hall songs for family practice Betsy Rose and I remember it was um it was a it was a kind of strange to be in the meditation hall with all these children children from here and from many different Dharma communities singing and uh chanting together but it was all when I listened to that tape I remember feeling a mixture of um sadness and longing and also happiness it came out I think it's because we're opening up new Dharma doors together working and practicing with children they don't behave they don't listen they don't um pretend and they happen to be um pretty incredible um um teachers

[52:07]

that's been my experience so so so I remember one of my clearest memories is um walking by the dining room when Jesse was a baby and looking in the window and he had his own special high chair because we had to strap him in to hold him down when it was time to eat it was a a wooden high chair that was very banged up but he loved it and he made quite a mess on that high chair and I remember it was a Sunday afternoon and I looked in to the dining room and another baby was in this chair a visitor's baby and I remember feeling so indignant and righteous and at the same time recognizing oh this is the way it's going to go my baby will move on and will not always be in that chair I think until then I'd forgotten you know the three great

[53:09]

marks of existence I'd forgotten those primary teachings because of being so caught up in the life of this child and it took the jolting experience of seeing another child sitting in his chair to remember those teachings and I it's a very vivid memory for me I'm sure I promptly forgot it as soon as the kid finally left but I do remember that thank you you're welcome just see if you can see yeah supposed to be this side good so this is

[54:09]

upside down great that one that's good I've always had a secret desire on you know the first Sunday of the month when it's kids program to play this song in the zendo so I promise we don't have to do that but let's listen to it here my old sister sister thinks that I'm lazy my younger brother thinks that I'm crazy my mother and father they don't even bother to ask why I'm alone in my room doing zen meditation on a Sunday afternoon it wasn't

[55:16]

all that hard to begin it at first I just sat down for a minute I watched my breath going in and out of my nose and then when my mind started wondering I would bring it back again bring it back again bring it back again my older sister thinks that I'm lazy my younger brother thinks that I'm crazy my mother and father they don't even bother to ask why I'm alone in my room doing zen meditation on a Sunday afternoon I didn't

[56:21]

need a whole lot of caution to get myself a mat and a cushion the peace and quiet improves my diet and soothes my stress I confess I'm worrying less and less worrying less and less my older sister thinks that I'm crazy my younger brother thinks that I'm crazy my mother and father they don't even bother to ask why I'm alone in my room doing zen meditation on a Sunday afternoon a tiny

[57:25]

Buddha figure with candles a shiny incense burner with candles my little altar is my Gibraltar when things get rough what's so tough when breathing is enough breathing is enough my older sister thinks that I'm crazy my younger brother thinks that I'm crazy my mother and father they don't even bother to ask why I'm alone in my room doing zen meditation on a Sunday afternoon my room's

[58:27]

become a regular Zen dome I might as well just sell my knit my friends don't get it but I don't let it disturb my poise girls and boys need a break from all the noise break from all the noise break from all the noise my older sister thinks that I'm crazy my younger brother thinks that I'm crazy my mother and father they don't even bother to ask why I'm alone in my room doing zen meditation on a Sunday afternoon I think I'll take it off on Monday doing zen

[59:27]

meditation on a Sunday afternoon Whoo! Isn't that cool? It's the in San 沈 in Michigan came out of there working with kids two wonderful tapes which I'm happy to leave here you can listen to my music's great and unexpected playful thank you so much you're supposed to slap me five what's wrong with you

[60:14]

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