Good morning, everyone. Can you hear me okay? So thank you, Kodo, for the kind introduction. And thank you, Nancy and David, for the invitation to speak here at City Center. And Nancy recently spoke at Green Gulch, so-called Green Gulch, Zoom, and shared with me she kept thinking of herself as being in the barn here, the barn Zendo. In her mind, she knew, you know, it's just another Zoom, but she pictured herself in that old hall, and I'm finding the same this morning with you all. picturing myself on the seat in the Buddha Hall there with the streaming light and the floor worn smooth from so many decades of daily practice.

[01:21]

So a nice thing in the past about speaking at City Center is that I could use the exact same talk that I've used at Green Gulch or Tassara. And with the Zoom situation, doing so feels less appropriate. Wanting to figure out how to include you all on my screen as though we were in that hall. I see many of you familiar faces and newer friends, but thank you for being here. So I can't, I feel, I can't exactly give the exact same talk that I've given elsewhere, unfortunately for me.

[02:28]

But the talk that I gave a couple of weeks ago at Green Gulch, the theme of that talk still is very much alive for me. And as I talk with people about their practice, I feel that it's alive for others too. So I wanted at least to start... on that theme, maybe with a different emphasis, a different frame, and then maybe open up in a different direction. We can see how it goes with our time here together. So this theme that I've been feeling, interning, and sometimes amazingly even actually practicing with, is a feeling that's very accessible I can find it right now without much trouble, the feeling of overwhelm. Sort of overwhelmed up to utterly overwhelmed.

[03:32]

So the feeling of overwhelm is nothing new to me, surely not to you either. Practicing with overwhelm, seeing overwhelm because practice is a little different than just being overwhelmed. So for example, to be on this seat with this responsibility, this robe and your generous attention is rather overwhelming. When I remember that I'm practicing with overwhelm, I'm not just, oh, no, I'm overwhelmed. I'm practicing with overwhelm. Then that overwhelm isn't an obstacle so much as something that I can work with. Even maybe find, you may have found this little tinge. Hey, there's overwhelm. I've been looking for that so I can practice. Now I get to try out.

[04:36]

I get to see if this practice is true, you know. I was just making it up. Let's see. Okay. And practice with this. This is the object I'm ready for to practice with, rather than like, oh no, when's it going to be over? How do I get rid of it? So being overwhelmed and practicing with overwhelm are not the same thing. I've noticed that in myself, and I notice, I think that other people have that feeling, being around me. A little question. we see that you're overwhelmed and we wonder if you're practicing with overwhelm and seeming overwhelmed or just being overwhelmed. I hear things in my house, you know, my wife and children are maybe most intimate with my overwhelm as it manifests in the environment.

[05:39]

Jeez, Papa, relax. Papa's so tense. So we see that you're overwhelmed, but we're not sure if you're practicing with the overwhelm. Maybe you are. But let's check. I was remembering a story that Ed Brown, our friend and longtime Zen Center, a priest and disciple of Suzuki Roshi, Ed Brown talked about being in the apple store back when a person could go into such a place uh being into the into the apple store which is an overwhelming for him was an overwhelming experience and so he was standing there kind of in the doorway of the apple store and said to the clerk i'm feeling overwhelmed and the kind clerk said you should take up meditation

[06:40]

You should try meditating. So the clerk noticed that he was overwhelmed, but wasn't sure that he was practicing with it. Of course, he was practicing with it. And I don't know if that reminder helped him remember that, oh, I'm not just overwhelmed. I'm practicing with overwhelm. I think already to say I'm overwhelmed is already practicing with overwhelm. It's already, this isn't just how I am. This is what I'm welcoming as my opportunity. I promised myself I wouldn't use that word, opportunity, overused. But still, this overwhelm is my chance to practice, to try it out. So that's a huge shift. And just when I can use that label, when I can say I'm overwhelmed, already there, something shifts. I open to an intention to hold this in a different way.

[07:45]

Not just get out of it or complain or wait it out. So, of course, also it's overwhelming. You know it's overwhelming to be in this seat. It's also overwhelming, for example, when the sun doesn't come up. There's an expectation, right? We talk about, well, what were you expecting? I was kind of expecting that the sun would come up on Thursday, Wednesday, whatever it was. Forgive me for holding to my expectation, but I just, I did expect that. And it's a little overwhelming that it didn't rise. You know, to look out at this air. or worse even still, to be out in this air and wondering, you know, when the flames will come. So last time when I talked about overwhelm, I generously shared a long list for anyone who may be wondering what to be overwhelmed about.

[08:56]

I shared a long list of things to be overwhelmed about. I'm not sure that was helpful. But the idea, the truth is that maybe we can let it in it maybe feels like too much to take it feels like too much to take when we're trying to hold it at bay and it feels like too much to take when we think that if we let it in we're going to need to hold it in if we let it in we'll be stuck with it forever So it doesn't hurt to name it and see if we can let it in, you know? And I know each of you, each of us, has our own list of what's overwhelming right now in our life in this world, this overwhelming pandemic, this overwhelming fact of racial oppression and injustice, both as the brutal caricature we see in police vigilante violence,

[10:04]

and also in the all-pervading, subtle, not-so-subtle stickiness. I see it like a layer of ash, you know, this thin layer of ash coating everything. And, of course, this climate catastrophe is overwhelming. It's overwhelming. This world where our kids are afraid to get close to each other, they get a little close and say, ah! Too close! The kids are afraid to get close to each other and know all about the AQI. It's 182. And they're gold bags. And tragically, you know, I'm really feeling the coming to see school as maybe many in the global family do, coming to see school more like an erratic luxury rather than this reliable baseline of life. School sort of shutting on and off like the power. So we all have our lists, and these feel like sometimes overwhelming times.

[11:12]

And it's good to let it in, to let it be named. And it may be, you know, in a way this is the Zen proposal, is that it may be a little less overwhelming if and when we stop pushing it away. So what is the Zen practice for overwhelm? How do we meet this emotion and state? So basically, the medicine that this tradition offers is called shantiparamita. It's the practice of inclusiveness, the practice of including, welcoming, allowing things in. It's to look at and find the resolve to turn around our habit of separating from things we feel are outside of us. To turn around our habit of imagining and experiencing the world and all of its burdens and pains as outside of us and impinging upon us.

[12:25]

It's our capacity to be with difficulty without turning away. There's an author I've been reading who calls it to stay with the trouble. Can we stay with the trouble? That's kshantiparamita. So that we can respond skillfully to the difficulty. So generally when I'm overwhelmed, it's because there's something outside of me or maybe even inside some part of me that I'm trying to keep out. I'm afraid I can't keep it out. I'm not quite strong enough to keep it out and it's going to crush me. i try to find this great reservoir of strength clench hold it all at bay against all odds and utterly unsustainably so that's my that's the feeling that's that's my feeling a lot of the time and maybe your feeling too yesterday thinking about this theme i suddenly remembered a translation a line i read long ago from the late and great

[13:34]

translator Edward Konza. I read this in the first months of my Buddhist practice a long time ago, and it etched itself into my mind. Here's what he writes, translating a Buddhist verse. Rain presses down on what is covered, but what is open lets it through. Uncover, therefore, what is covered, and so the rain will do no harm. Rain presses down on what is covered, but what is open lets it through. Uncover, therefore, what is covered, and so the rain will do no harm. So trying to chase down the source of these words from Edward Konza, as best I can tell, I think it's, to me, beautiful and profound.

[14:36]

translation of an early Buddhist text that actually means something entirely different, maybe even the opposite. And I've been in this bind before, you know, that my favorite Buddhist quotes seem to be the apocryphal or outright mistranslation. But, you know, they last, these mistranslations, these creative, revelatory misunderstandings seem to last in the tradition. There's old ones and there's new ones because they carry some wisdom. So of all of the textually correct but not so inspiring things that I've read, there are these, I think, textually incorrect but deeply inspiring to me words of Edward Konza. Rain presses down on what is covered, but what is open lets it through.

[15:37]

Uncover, therefore, what is covered, and so the rain will do no harm. So the heart, you know, my heart, our hearts, perhaps, are clenched and under siege. Uncover, therefore, what is covered. Allow it in, and let the flower of the life force bloom. in that opening, in that openness. So this pressing down, rain presses down on what is covered. That's like this feeling I call overwhelm. Feel it pressing and I try to push against, keep it out. Batten down the hatches, reinforce the timbers. Be strong, you know, but we're not strong enough. So, tragically, since we can't keep it out, but can't bear to let it in, the main tool we have left in our ordinary way of being is to collapse and to turn away.

[16:43]

So that's what we do, and that's what we see one another do, we see our society do. We can't keep it out, but we can't bear to let it in. So we close our eyes and turn away. We turn away by denying the catastrophic climate crisis. Or we turn away by declaring that it's game over on climate and throwing in the towel. Or we turn away by imagining that COVID is almost over. We'll be back to normal soon, guys. It's all gonna be okay. Or we turn away by imagining that COVID will never be over. It will always be like this. We'll never hug our friends again. The different flavors of this same turning away And we turn away by denying racial injustice and oppression. This present living legacy of slavery and indigenous genocide, the systemic racism in our institutions.

[17:48]

What systemic racism? Or we turn away by retreating to hating and blaming someone else, some others whose fault it really is, and we just need to destroy all of these flavors of turning away. And I wonder how it is for you. What in your life, what in your heart do you turn away from? And what is your flavor of turning away? And then how does it feel when you can let it in, let in this unbearable thing? How does that feel? when we can stay with that, stay with the trouble. So I feel that that's what's at stake. That's the point of this Kshantiparamita. Can we cultivate some capacity that allows us to not turn away from a world that really needs us to not turn away from suffering beings who need us to not turn away.

[18:55]

The rain presses down on what is covered, but what is open lets it through. uncover therefore what is covered and so the rain will do no harm when we open there's capacity there's great capacity because there's no holding when we open the rain will do no harm if there's no roof the rain won't break the roof So if you take the image too literally, of course, then unfortunately it's not really true. And a lot of, you know, our religious images, a lot of the images of our practice have this problem of just not really being true if we take them too literally. The rain can do great harm, roof or not.

[20:00]

So I feel those in Louisiana and Texas praying for us here in our time of great fire. And so we pray for them, you know, in their time of great floods. We know the rain can do great harm. And architecturally speaking, a good roof is generally better than no roof. So practically speaking, practicing vulnerability I think that's what I'm talking about at its core, is this practice, this healing, vital practice of vulnerability. And yet, practically speaking, practicing vulnerability is not always, outwardly especially, practicing vulnerability is not always safe or wise. And we need to hold and practice with these images without taking them too literally. holding them in a way where they lose their truth, their life.

[21:09]

So the men in the Buddha Dharma Sangha at San Quentin have helped me come to appreciate both sides of this vulnerability, uncover what is covered, and then there's no harm. As over the years I've witnessed some of them practice fearless, life-saving, life reclaiming vulnerability i say fearless you know but what would the what's inspiring isn't fearlessness it's the courage in fear so this courageous vulnerability i think of a dharma brother inside who always sat zazen with his back to the door he he he picked the seat so that his back would be to the open door And he shared with us that this doing so as a practice was working against his conscious deliberate working against this lifelong training of always sitting defended, sit with your back to the corner and the car parked facing out, you know.

[22:16]

So just expressing in that small embodied way, the call to vulnerability after deep conditioning in postures of self-protection. taking his life back, his heart back in that way. And then also hearing them, even the same Dharma brothers share their struggles as they care for themselves in spaces that aren't as safe as the chapel room might be. Where the vulnerability, if there will be vulnerability, must be a vulnerability of the heart, a deep vulnerability, but maybe not a shallow vulnerability. Sometimes it's not right to sit with your back to the door. But I think from the point of view of the Dharma, it's always right to let your soft, open heart receive itself. It's sometimes out of reach, but it's never incorrect.

[23:19]

So that's the spirit, that's the level of our life that I'm talking about, that we're talking about when we talk about uncovering, letting it all in. So I don't have the idea or offer a teaching that outer vulnerability is always correct. And likewise, the house that I live in now has a roof. I'm really grateful for it and I hope that it holds. And I do have the idea and humbly and with all respect share with you today that there's a deep meaning and deep opportunity for all of us in opening, allowing it all in. Even if it has to be just in a deep and even secret sense, our practice is about opening, uncovering, allowing in.

[24:23]

So in the Buddha Dharma, it's taught and confirmed by our deep experience that we are better off vulnerable. Even if society tells us otherwise, and even if sometimes it hurts, we're better off. During the great koan, our ancestor Yunmin says, a body exposed in the golden wind. exposed in the golden wind. It's an image of free and open and exposed, completely vulnerable. So the monk asks, how is it when the tree withers and the leaves fall? And when the last leaf has fallen, what then? When the last leaf has burned off, what then?

[25:28]

Nguyen Man says, the body exposed in the golden wind. Or another translation says, autumn's body exposed. Body exposed in the golden wind, body exposed in the autumn wind, and autumn's body exposed. This is one and the same. This body, not bracing against the wind, this body exposed in the autumn wind is... autumn's body exposed. Right then and there, you know, when we stop protecting. Exposed the body in the autumn wind. The body is autumn exposed. So this is the basic spiritual attitude of our practice.

[26:30]

And unfortunately, it's easy to misunderstand. Please, if you're feeling tempted to misunderstand, please resist the temptation to misunderstand. This has nothing to do with being a pushover. It has nothing to do with pretending to not exist. It's just this teaching of the body exposed to the autumn wind, autumn's body exposed. So Suzuki Roshi shows and shares the same practice, makes the same point in a short teaching from 1970, 50 years ago. There's a little bit of video of it, and I showed this short clip in my last talk, and I so love it, and I wanted to show it again today. Those of you who have seen it before, I may not regret hearing his words and feeling his presence again. So this is Suzuki Roshi giving a little example of how we might allow something in that we're trying to keep out and what happens when we do.

[27:41]

And it's a small example, you might even say a trifling example in light of the great pressures we face. But it's a small example that offers a deep insight, a way of practice that we can carry forward, that we can live out as we meet the big examples. So I'll see if this works. My friends here on the Zoom can please help if it doesn't. Let's see. Okay, maybe you see Suzuki Roshi. If you think when you are reading something, if you think bird is there, you know, Blue Jet is over my roof.

[28:54]

Blue Jet is singing, but their voice is not so good. When you think in that way, that is knowledge. When you are not disturbed by the blue jade, the blue jade will come right into your heart, and you will be a blue jade, and blue jade will be reading something. Then the blue jade doesn't disturb your reading. Because you think Brujede is there. Brujede should not be over my roof. When you think in that way, that is more primitive understanding of being. Why we understand things in that way is

[29:58]

because of want of practice. When you practice more, you can accept things as your own, whatever it is. come through maybe even right into your heart as your own so when we allow in what's outside we transform we see we can receive it we can accept it as our own rather than as something impinging from outside

[30:59]

It is our own life. It's not something to hold at arm's length. It is in us. It is us. The body exposed to the autumn wind. And it is autumn's body, open to the blue jay. The blue jay is reading. It's the blue jay using our eyes. So this thing that we're holding at bay is just our own true life already. It's not outside our life. We can accept it as our own. Let it right into our heart. So I've been endeavoring to practice that as I feel these surges of overwhelm and collapse.

[32:09]

Trying to name that, see what I'm holding out and let it in. And of course it may be easier with Autumn breezes, maybe. 32 AQI autumn breezes sound pretty nice right now. Squawking blue jay even. And so maybe it's easier with birds and breezes. But it does work also. It holds. It is sound. The principle holds, too, of smoke, of painful feelings, of the great suffering and cruelty in the world. So we start with birds and breezes. We don't end there. We can hold all of this. This is our Buddha nature, our vast, deep Buddha nature can hold all of this.

[33:14]

So how do we let it in? Dare we let it in? One of our incarcerated Sangha members wrote to share with us the image of of a bowl he was crafting. He was crafting in his heart a bowl for each of the tragedies in our world and in his life that he noticed he was not letting in. I'm going to make a bowl for each one so I can bring it into my heart and be with it. Let it in. Uncover, therefore, what is covered, and so the rain can do no harm. Rain also sounds really nice right now. But, you know, imagine, imagine with me, the rain pelting down, and we hear in this Kshantiparamita, this call to walk free and naked in this rain, in our heart at least, perhaps.

[34:33]

Sometimes, you know, the rain suit is not helping. It's damp and sticky. Maybe some of this protective gear can be shed in this rain, and our skin is okay. It can be wet. It has that capacity. We can let in what we're holding out. And when we do so, you know, I hate to say it, but we become one with the blue jay, one with the rain. one with the autumn. So the practice in this way is to receive and transform. These are the words that Thich Nhat Hanh uses when he talks about the same practice. He says, this is the practice of receiving and transforming. When we open to something, we can receive it, not just to be stuck with it, but to transform it.

[35:36]

We don't just open to something and are then at its mercy. We open to something as our response, as the basis of our response. And in that opening, it's transformed. We're transformed with it. So here's a metaphor that Thich Nhat Hanh uses that I shared the other day and I continued to turn and wanted to share again. He says... If you take a handful of salt and pour it into a small bowl of water, the water in the bowl will be too salty to drink. If you take a handful of salt and pour it into a small bowl of water, the water in the bowl will be too salty to drink. So of course, if you're offering some water to someone,

[36:39]

in a bowl, small bowl, and then someone wants to dump a handful of salt in, you will be very worried. But I need to offer this water and if the salt comes in, it will not be drinkable. But if you pour, Thich Nhat Hanh continues, but if you pour the same amount of salt into a large river, people will still be able to drink the river's water. Because of its immensity, The river has the capacity to receive and transform. So the bull, you know, is afraid of that handful of salt. The bull can't allow it because then how will it nourish? The river does not need to resist in the same way. And of course, the rivers meet their capacity eventually. We're finding that painfully true. And yet the image holds. Because of its immensity, the river doesn't need to reject this handful of salt.

[37:41]

It can receive and transform. It can still nourish beings. So what if we could grow the capacity of the receptacle instead of just making sure no salt comes in? What if we can grow the capacity of the receptacle to receive it? What if the bowl that is our capacity could become a creek or a stream or a great river, that we could absorb this and still nourish. And that's what this practice of opening to things is for. It's this practice of gradually, slowly, persistently widening this space, this receptacle. Part of what's beautiful to me about the river image is that the river also is flowing on.

[38:42]

So again, letting in is not holding in. And part of our fear of letting in is a misunderstanding of letting it in and holding it in. The river's not holding it in. Constant new streams of water, new moment, opening, receiving, exhaling completely. all the leaves dropped off in this long exhalation. And body exposed in the golden wind. So I just wanted this morning to recommend and share and invite and encourage this practice of welcoming what you are right now holding at bay.

[39:47]

So we notice what we're trying to keep out. And sometimes it's just one part of ourself trying to keep out another. We might feel it in our body, braced and protected against the world. We don't need to judge this. This is totally beyond right and wrong, good and bad. We don't need to reject or justify this posture if we're taking it, but we notice it, we notice how it feels. We can allow this thought, I would like to practice with this. I'd like to see if this squawking blue jay or its incomparably more awful cousins, you know, can come into our heart. And then, You know, if we can stop fighting and holding and getting exhausted, but let it into our heart and then see what response comes from that. We may find, you know, you may find that there's more room than you knew.

[40:54]

There's more room than we know. There is in each of us, this is the Buddha's teaching, there is in each of us a great depth of water a great capacity to receive that we hadn't fully realized. It's our Buddha nature. All of this room to receive and transform great suffering. Well, maybe I can leave it there. But maybe I'll, if I may, and it's hard to feel your presence here on this Zoom, but maybe one more caution before we close.

[42:04]

There's a risk. I'd like to share a great risk of practicing intimacy with our suffering, really, intimacy with our overwhelm, feeling in humility and invulnerability, our struggle and our limited capacity to meet the depths of our own and the world's suffering, to meet our deep propensity to turn away, as becoming intimate with this creates a serious risk of stumbling upon great compassion you may accidentally come across great compassion for others like genuine compassion for all living beings which is a terrifying thought and a queasy feeling and maybe profoundly destabilizing even so you know do this practice at your own peril this happened to me the other day. It's just a glimpse.

[43:12]

Don't worry. I'm trying to shake it, you know, this glimpse of genuine universal compassion for all living beings based on my own intimacy with my struggle and overwhelm. Great compassion for all living beings. Maybe disorienting. know allowing in this disturbance allowing in not just the blue jay but other suffering people as our own as our own life letting everyone letting them all into our heart and sharing our life with them opening to the fact that we are already sharing our life with them they are already our actual life it's a terrible truth It's a heart-opening truth, you know, that we are each other's life.

[44:14]

The Blue Jay is reading. So no one is left out of this great compassion that we might stumble upon. This doesn't at all mean that we'll come to like and appreciate everyone. Another phrase etched into my mind is a famous line of Dr. King, I'm so happy Jesus didn't say, like your enemies. I find it pretty difficult to like some people. I'm so happy Jesus didn't say, like your enemies. You know, this great compassion we stumble into through this practice may not be affection or appreciation. Dr. King calls this, you know, conflation of liking and loving, affection, emotional bosh, and great compassion. It's ludicrous, he says, slams it, this idea that he would or should like or feel anything sentimental or affectionate for the people trying day and night to destroy him, to bomb his home and threaten his children and block any progress towards justice.

[45:28]

He does not like these people. They do not deserve our affection. But great compassion includes them totally. So as we practice letting the world in, we might find ourselves in this neighborhood of great compassion. So you might watch out for that. Open to that too, you know? Traditionally, when we, Kshanti Paramita is tolerance, capacity, spaciousness, ability to be with suffering, and also ability, in the deepest sense, ability to be with the profoundly disturbing truth of how interdependent we are, how profoundly we are each other's life.

[46:33]

The old tradition says this. This is going to be hard. See if you can let even this in. We are one life. You are my life. I am your life. I am you in your shoes. You are me in my shoes. Rain presses down on what is covered, but what is open lets it through. Uncover therefore what is covered, and so the rain will do no harm. just let that awful squawking blue jay into your heart even just for one moment so thank you for your kind attention this morning our practice here together embodied each of us embodied in our place even across our distance

[47:42]

May our practice together here be of benefit to all of us and to others. We collect the great fruit of all of this shared practice and we offer it out. We hand it over to others. May all beings be free and safe from harm. So we offer our practice in this way. Thank you again. Thank you very much. transition with our closing chant and then we can have some time for a question and answer. May our intention equally extend to every being and place. with the true merit of Buddha's way.

[48:45]

Beings are numberless, I vow to save them. Delusions are inexhaustible, I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless, I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable, I vow to be commended. Thank you so much, Julia. It seems we have about 15 minutes scheduled for questions and answers. The queue has already begun, but just a reminder, if anyone would like to participate in this way, you can open your participants pane by clicking the button. And then there should be an option to raise a blue hand. So let's begin with Dave. First of all, I'd like to say thank you so much for your wonderful talk.

[49:51]

And then my question is something you brought up but didn't expand on, that there are times when it's not so safe or even useful to let in. using your metaphor of the rain, that, you know, we're going to let the rain end, that's going to give us good drinking water. But when they're hailstones the size of golf balls, we wouldn't want to go that way. So do you just have any further comments on that distinction? And thank you. Yeah, thank you. I think maybe that's all that... The persistent, the lasting spiritual truth of opening our heart to itself, I trust completely.

[51:00]

But the idea that say we can never have a boundary or you know a boundary is just gonna be stressful that is like a confusion of the spiritual truth with the the practical truth that a boundary can be good and true and and correct and and caring so this dynamic you know this that tension in our practice could say absolute and relative the spiritual and practical maybe truths kind of keeping these clear and also keeping them in their domains like integrated and mutually supportive but not conflated or confused you know I just live for everyone else you know

[52:05]

So many examples where these images that are deeply true may not be shallowly true. And so, again, this reckoning in myself, especially trying to support practitioners inside San Quentin, where I don't know if it's right for you to stay vulnerable as you leave the relative safety of this chapel space. And hearing, yeah, that's right. I also, you know, don't feel it's right to stay vulnerable. And yet, to not hide my heart from my heart is always true. So I'm continuing to turn that, but I think that somehow understanding that distinction feels important. Thank you for re-emphasizing that. Thank you. Sierra Vine. Okay.

[53:11]

I think I have unmuted myself. Thank you so much for your talk about overwhelm. It's something that I can relate to very acutely, and I think most of the folks present here can relate to, especially this week. I say especially, but I wonder if it's especially versus just the status quo. But that your talk about overwhelm really resonated for me and about not turning away because I personally do tend to turn away and shut down when I am overwhelmed. And that's something that I'm working on. And to your point about not turning away from systemic racism in our institutions, that's also something that I've been struggling with quite a bit. And so that's where this question is coming from. from the intention of not turning away, right? So I know these are some stats that I've been pulling from the city of San Francisco, so sf.gov.

[54:15]

We are roughly 883,000 residents in San Francisco. I know you're in Green Gulch, but it kind of speaks to the Bay Area. And of that, 40% are identified as white. And people of color, Black, Indigenous, people of color, the rest is 60%. And that breaks down to Asian Americans, 34%, Hispanics, 15%, Black and African Americans, 5%, and then Native American, Alaska Natives. two or more races, 6%. And the gender is roughly half and half. So 51% male, 49% female. And if you kind of widen the scope of that data out a bit to the larger barrier, it's going to be roughly still 50-50 for gender. And then it's going to be 53% for gender. identify as white in the whole Bay Area, and that's according to the last census, the 2010 census, and some of these demographics are going to shift, right?

[55:20]

So according to the last 2010 census for the Bay Area, the larger area, it's 53% white and 47% black, indigenous, and people of color. And so I'm sharing this data with you because it made me really curious. Do we have similar demographic information for City Center, the larger, you know, the Three Jewels, what I think of as the Three Jewels, the City Center, Green Gulch and Tassajara, either for residents or within the larger community? Thank you. I don't know for sure. I think we could clearly say, hearing those numbers, that San Francisco Zen Center has less representation of people of color than the general population.

[56:30]

I think here at Green Gulch, it's about 75% white, the current resident population. It would be interesting maybe someone with access to the various residents' lists and wider Sangha lists could put those numbers together. Clearly, there's a lot of work that we have to do to open the heart of this place, you know, that everything can flow in to be transparently reflecting the conditions around, you know, inside and outside flowing through. Well, the reason I asked that question was because I was wondering if we are serving the entire community or a subset of the community. And if we're not serving the entire community, I'm wondering how can we be a more inclusive sangha?

[57:33]

Really, that's where that question is coming from. Maybe you can address that a little bit. Could we be a little bit more of an inclusive sangha? Yeah, thank you. there are many ways you know there are many sort of like aspects to a strategy or a strategic plan and that all feels really wholesome and right that such efforts would be made I think at the level of of practice this this issue also from the last question this issue of um mixing up. So I think hearing and receiving the experience of people in a vulnerable, non-defensive, non-turning away way sort of allows that information that those truths to come into and transform the situation.

[58:54]

And I think part of of our inability as Zen Center, say, or as maybe the white, generally white leadership of Zen Center over the years, to really receive and then use the feedback of, wow, this is not welcoming in these ways, this is not inclusive in these ways, is related to the same this same problem of mixing the sort of spiritual and the practical truth. So that's one thing for me, you know? So there are many ways. But for me, as a Dharma teacher, it feels really important to be able to receive feedback, to be able to receive someone's experience, to receive somebody's request or invitation or offering of change,

[59:56]

as, say, like a practical material request rather than like a spiritual problem, you know? So I think this has been part of the problem, honestly. And I'm not sure I can put the words to it, but sort of like if you come to, and many of the administrative leaders at Zen Center are also spiritual leaders, and when you come to a spiritual leader with some feedback of like, wow, this terrible thing happened to me, this microaggression or this major aggression happened to me and I don't feel so welcome, there's the spiritual solution, there's the spiritual sort of approach to that. And then there's the institutional approach. And I think sometimes we've gotten that confused. The institutional approach is we need to talk to the people who did this. We need to open, we need to study how this is happening. And I'm sorry, you know. Another level is How are you, as a person who's been hurt, holding that in your heart, you know?

[61:04]

And that's also a vital conversation. But it's not a conversation to have instead of the other conversation. But we need to be clear, which conversation are we having? So sometimes I've said, no, let's have different, we'll be in a different room, and we'll have a different kind of conversation. We'll be at that table when you tell me how it's going and what we could do better. And then we'll be at this other table when you tell me how it's going and invite me into your heart and how you're being with it. But so I think sometimes that's been the defensiveness or the rejection is like, well, so how are you going to practice with that? Instead of like, wow, I can't believe your crew had said that to you. I can't believe the person who answered the phone said that to you. Let's go talk to them. So I think that that's a start, at least for me, from my seat. That's something that I want to get better at, knowing when spiritual support, individual spiritual support is called for and when actually what i'm hearing is a request for an institutional kind of intervention but that's just one one small piece and thank you i think your question helps and

[62:15]

I really appreciate you not turning away and holding the space and the compassion open. I feel that directly, even through Zoom, through the ether. I definitely feel that. So I appreciate that. And I'm a firm believer that we can't manage what we don't measure, right? And so if we're not keeping track of this demographic, then how can we tell where we are as a baseline and then any kind of progress that we make from here, right? So may I get a commitment from you that you'll shepherd this request, which is me part of the Sangha asking for this demographic data about our community to the leadership at Zen Center, whether it's Tassajara, Green Gulch, or City Center, and make this data transparent and available to the larger community. So one is a request to please take my request and ask the leadership to gather this data if they don't have it already. And my second part of that would be... A request is to make it available to us, to the people who are part of the Sangha for Zen Center.

[63:21]

And then the third part is always going to be a date involved, right? Because otherwise it could be here 10 years from now and nobody will have done it or they're still in track of doing it. So one, can you ask the leadership for this data on our behalf? And then two, make it transparent for the community. And three, have a deadline, let's say in 2020, if we could get this data shared to us. can I get a commitment from you for that? I really appreciate the request and the conversation and I will certainly enter that conversation and with you if I could reach you that would be helpful and certainly with others in the leadership Right now, I don't see a downside, but the conversation hasn't... maybe I'm missing something, so I'd like to hear... I'd like to hear from more people rather than make a commitment here, but commit to a conversation that doesn't just stay forever as a conversation.

[64:33]

Yes. Also... yeah, data is good, and... websites are good and there's, yeah, more there too. But as a step, I really appreciate that invitation. So thank you. Thank you, Sira. Thank you. Jiryu, if we may round out the queue with Zach. May I just say already from Some others in leadership here at Sun Center, I'm hearing some comments that such things are in progress and maybe even more ready than I knew. So we will, let's be in touch, Sierra. Thank you. Jirio. Hello. Hey, thank you. I had a question.

[65:37]

I, you know, it's almost impossible to not win my heart by mentioning young men and body exposed in the golden wind. It's... Sorry, too easy, right? Yeah, really. It literally slays me. So that's good. I did have a question, though, and that is this. So over the... over years of making my best effort to be a teacher, what I've discovered, to my surprise, given the emphasis on this act of opening to experience, to standing, you know, close to, and so on to experience.

[66:41]

I've discovered that there's a, there's, there are people who, who are, who, who really want relief from suffering for whom the, the practices and techniques that, that we use are not particularly effective because my phone is sliding off the desk here. This table is made of highly polished glass and it doesn't stay up very well. But anyway, for them, for a number of people that I know, sitting zazen is like, trying to body surf in a storm. The waves are too big and too fast and too dangerous, feel too dangerous, whether they're actually dangerous or not is another question to just open to.

[67:47]

Or it feels like being in a loud room full of people who are so agitated and volatile that all you want to do is get out. And some of these people are even members of my family. So I've had a lot of experience with that. So the question is how to approach that as a as a teacher and a practitioner, how do you approach that? Is there a path in or do you have to just give it up? Well, when you put it that way, you know, I have to say give it up. Yeah.

[68:49]

yeah well a couple things come up one is I sometimes think of these and it's funny because here we are talking publicly about them but I think of them kind of as secret teachings you know like let this just be a teaching for you you know just I'm just a teaching for me and now I kind of it's time to share what the teaching is for me so I'm sharing it but not like not as something to apply to other people certainly not to like yeah evaluate other people or expect or ask other people to do such a thing you know so in that of like oh this is just about care for your heart and then as a as a dharma teacher hopefully we're caring for our life and caring for our heart and then our response just comes from that you know it's not um you don't need to know my exercise routine you know it's just here's here's here's the fruit you know here's an offering So that's one side is like, well, yeah, that's fine.

[69:52]

It's not about other people. I do think that, you know, zazen or not, I think there is a lot of resonance for people in this possibility of, like, allowing something into their heart. And what's the form or what shape do you put your body in to support that? You know, I forget if you were... in the workshop a few weeks ago now with Abbas Fu and Reverend Angel. One of the exercises, and I shared this in the last talk because I really appreciated it along these lines, she led us in this grounding, embodied grounding exercises. We were standing and just feeling really coming into our body and feeling the presence of the supportive ancestors and supportive beings around us and the the strength and groundedness in our body, and we kind of got settled.

[70:56]

And then she invited us to just bring in a small annoyance, you know, just bring in a little, it's kind of like the Blue Jay, you know, just bring in something small, irritation, and just letting that kind of float into this space. So rather than say like, yeah, just wide open, you know, just like tear the roof off, open your heart to the whole mass of suffering beings from beginningless time, actually, don't even... You know, don't even limit yourself to just the present ones. Go all the way to the past and all the way to the future. All the great writhing mass of suffering beings, just let that out. So, yeah. But one small thing, you know, like opening your heart to just one small thing and how we help somebody do that, how we encourage that. there may be more receptivity. And we know, you know, it's so true. And I think lots of people know and resonate with the truth of that, but it may not be through the form of sitting.

[72:03]

It may be like, it may sound like, how are you feeling? You know, and then somebody has to open to how they're feeling. or is invited, remembers, well, wait, actually, this feels good to open to how I'm feeling and share it. So those are some thoughts, but I appreciate, you know, how we support this practice in ourselves and nourish it in others is our call in a way and our great opportunity. Thank you so much, Chiria. That's awesome. Yeah, thank you. Take care. It's really good to see you. Likewise. I think we may be over the time allotted. Kodo, is that true? It is true. It is true. Shall we close? Oh, before we close, may I, let's see, I just will put in the chat, I know many have appreciated that Suzuki Roshi clip, and I just sent in the chat a link to where it is on the Zen Center website, a short...

[73:12]

That clip along with some context of Suzuki Roshi. Thank you. Thank you so much. And now everyone should be able to unmute if you'd like to say goodbye. Jiru, thank you for being here. Thank you, Jiru. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. [...] Thanks for a beautiful talk, Chiriu. Yes. Very helpful to me. Thank you. Great talk. Thank you. Chiriu, happy to be a part of the conversation with Ciara. Okay. Thank you, Nancy. I am as well.

[74:12]

The DEIA committee can be helpful here. Okay. Thank you. We'll be in touch. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Bye. Have a wonderful day. See you soon. Bye-bye. That was really good. Yeah, I was impressed with him. Oh, yeah. I was very impressed. Need some help with that? Well, I'm just trying to get a bunch of glue out. There's this, like, this might be the ultimate in picking glue. It's all this hard glue in there. Yeah. I was trying to get it out. Oh, yeah. Oh, baby. But I don't know. I was using this, like, old sewing needle, but it's not being very effective, so I don't know. It needs to be something from the other side or... I do have this cake tester that's kind of similar to that.

[75:38]

What I'm ultimately trying to do is fix a watch. Maybe that this stuff is just too old to use. I don't know. This is old Gorilla Glue. Yeah. Does this? Oh, yeah. I tried using the regular glue on this and it just fell apart again. This piece of watch.

[76:57]

Ah, you got it. You got it. Wow. Wow. That's so good. Yeah, that's better. Thank you. You are. I felt like he was kind of sidelined by Sierra. I mean, his talk wasn't about this kind of thing. No, she had an agenda. She had an agenda, and the agenda didn't have anything to do with his talk. No, it didn't. But I think people are intentionally pushing because they want, they want, they don't want to ignore this.

[77:58]

Yeah. It's like, okay, well, I think, you know, Where is it you're going to do this? Yeah. Right. In a public place. In a public place. Yeah. It's like, oh, a Dharma talk. A forum, yeah. So I wouldn't be surprised if there's more of that. Yeah. But the thing is, is that, you know, people also have to want to come. You can open the doors and you can be inclusive and welcoming. Yeah. But, you know, you've got to have a way of inviting them where they want to come in, that requires two people, two sides. Personally, I really think that they ought to form an alliance with one of the Oakland centers. Yeah, like some place where there is a lot of diversity. Yeah, just say, we need to address this.

[79:01]

We're not talking about merging. We're talking about some kind of collaboration to address this. Yeah. Well, I thought his point was good that sometimes these things are met with, well, are you practicing this? Oh, yeah. Instead of, you know, like, when is it about practice and when is it about action? I thought that was a really, really good point. Yeah, me too, because I think that's, in a way, kind of a... you know, a way to put people up like, oh, so you have a problem, so what can you do about it? It's like, no, no, no. I'm saying that there's a problem with this system or with the institution. It's not just about me and my feelings. It's just a quarter of a cup. That's a quarter of a cup. Ah, a quarter of a cup is this one. I'm going to take this off. Okay, you got it.

[80:06]

Oh thanks. I'm going to poison the cat with plastic. There's stuff to take care of. What are you thinking about here? Dishes, bed. Just regular chores that I have not yet taken care of because of our unusual morning.

[81:09]

Yes, strange morning. I don't know where my phone is. I know where my iPad is now. Okay, your iPad's right here. That's my phone. Can I take that hammer now? Yes. Are you going to smash it on your watch? No, no, no. Okay. Oh. What is it? Nothing. So maybe there was more glue to paint there, but I'm not going to do it. I know. I'm in the process of putting all this up. Okay. Hold down. Nothing bad. Nothing bad is happening. Okay, sorry. I'll do this one step at a time.

[82:10]

First, I had to find... I'm going to try this other... This lid has all kinds of... stuck on it too, so I'm trying to see if there's no way. I'm going to try nail polish remover. It does clear up a lot of stuff. I had to go right back. I'll come back in here in a few minutes. Sorry. Sorry. You can't do everything at once. It doesn't work out. All right. Now I need my shoes on. My feet are cold because the ground is cold. Oh, I know. I know. I liked his talk.

[83:15]

I thought it was really good. Yeah, me too. And I really enjoyed the way that he would share something, like the whole thing about reading. And then he'd go, now, of course, that's not always true. Yeah. I like that, too. Like, this doesn't feel, you know. Don't take away. Yeah, this is going to be all end-all teaching. You know, it's like, no, it's just a way of talking about it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then that's her present, too. This does apply, but then, oh, it doesn't always apply. Yeah. Always respect the limitations of the words and the images and the concepts. Generally, it's going to have your heart open. You know, this is something that I appreciate so much by the Zen Center that we don't get into the local saga, which is this just immediacy of

[84:18]

what somebody is experiencing, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's much more, our song gets much more removed than abstract. Yeah, like being teacherly. Even Donald Rothberg, I thought, was kind of doing that just now. Oh, yeah. He wasn't really talking from a three-point practice for solving your problems. Yeah, that is not helpful to me. I don't know. Maybe it could be. Here it is. I don't know. Yeah, I really liked his stuff. No, he isn't who I thought he was. Oh. There's another guy there that maybe has a journalist name. Who's like this real, like, oh. Maybe it is the same person. I'm not sure who you're thinking of. He looked different to me. I do like this guy. Yeah, me too. The person I'm talking about. at least one time came across as kind of wooden to me.

[85:22]

And I don't know if it was this guy or somebody else I'm thinking of. A man. Male. Who's married. And he's married to this woman who had talked right before. Like. This is familiar. She had short kind of curly hair. Yeah. And then this guy talked and he was like, is it the partner? Anyway. Could be something. I have a big recollection. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe a different couple. Oh definitely. Yeah. But I thought it was great to speak to that sense of overwhelm that I think lots of people are having. comes up at moments.

[86:26]

Yeah. Where it's like, oh my god, there's just too much right now. Yeah. Huh. Yeah, but I thought he was being ambushed. What is going on on your screen? What's going on? It looks like it's continuing in some fashion, but it's... This is still Zoom. Yeah. As if the Bay Bridge or something? No, huh?

[86:53]

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