This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. It's so wonderful to see you and practice in a small way with you. We all come here to nurture our spirituality. And my deep appreciations to the guests, residents, staff, and teachers who have continued this great practice for some decades, so that we can come and enjoy.

[01:00]

enjoying your practice. When we practice, we search for awakening or we try to actualize some part of awakening in our daily lives. as a translator I prefer to work the word awakening better than enlightenment but I think enlightenment is also maybe enlightenment makes maybe the concept more interesting awakening seems to be

[02:03]

more user-friendly, takes only a cup of coffee. Enlightenment might take two cups of coffee. We jointly pursue the meanings of awakening and enlightenment And we realize that our experience is not separated with other people's experience and not separated from our society. So I think it is useful to think about enlightened society. What is the meaning of an enlightened society? my sense is that commitment of non-violent solutions of domestic and international conflict is crucial for an enlightened society there is no real enlightened society existing in the world but I feel

[03:33]

Costa Rica can be an inspiration for us in many ways it demilitarized it abolished military forces in 1948 and then constitutionally next year and it has kept its independence although there were some threats of invasion from Nicaragua and also because they could direct their resources for well-being of the citizens they have universal free healthcare and free education up to university level.

[04:38]

You might say, what is universal? Meaning that any citizen or resident of Costa Rica, even a tourist, if we get hospitalized or see the doctor, we don't need to pay for medical care. I think it'll be just a good example, very inspiring. So some of my friends, colleagues and I work for an organization called A World Without Armies. And it was first called the Costa Rica Project. So we tried to learn from people in Costa Rica and how we can do, kind of maintain the society without having military forces.

[05:53]

Panama also was demilitarized in 1994. And then they have no U.S. bases. So these two countries are bordering without military forces. Our honorary founder is Rodrigo Caruso, former president of Costa Rica. And he was a great spokesman for Costa Rica without army. He was my personal mentor, a dear friend, also co-author of a book we were creating. Unfortunately, he passed away three years ago. So I promised his family members that I will complete the book, Wake Through Costa Rica, Lessons for the World.

[07:01]

Costa Rica is also... leading the world in environmental protection, you can see. Also leading Latin American world in human rights protections. They have the court of international inter-American human rights in San Jose, the capitalist city of Costa Rica. Also, as you probably have heard that Costa Rica is often leading the world by happiness of people. I have been doing research on how do you measure happiness.

[08:09]

Different organizations measure happiness. Sometimes maybe protection of environment is an important part of happiness of citizens, which makes sense. But usually Costa Rica is rated number one or two. One of the political parties in early times made a basic policy for working for equitable incomes of citizens. So Costa Rica doesn't have super rich people and very poor people. Costa Rica may be over one fourth of the population is legally or illegally immigrated people from neighboring countries.

[09:15]

You can see why. If a country has no draft system, then men don't have to go to war and possibly get killed. People want to live there. So there are so many immigrants. Still, there are not very poor people in Costa Rica. So that's probably one of the reasons that people are happy, people don't have to work too hard to save money for medical care in old ages. They have a very strong middle class.

[10:19]

I'm not suggesting that Costa Rica is an ideal society. They have problems. A lot of small crimes. Corruption. They could have more industry perhaps, more income. But at least we can learn from various aspects of Costa Rican society. I think the greatest nation in the world should be the nation with the greatest happiness or residence. and citizens. I don't think super military or economic power should be regarded as the greatest nation, especially if it were the anti-depression superpower.

[11:37]

Now it seems that our society is getting to be anti-depression pets superpower too. And then also they are kind of marketing anti-depression for children, which is really of great concern. I think people take anti-depression, of course, Some people need it. This is a great invention for people who have real problems. But instead, I think maybe this is used as a kind of easy solution for being unhappy, dissatisfied. I may sound that I'm anti-military, but actually on the contrary.

[12:51]

Our organizations love military people and veterans. People kind of help us, work for us. And I think any nation, especially a developed nation, developing nations need to have well-trained soldiers, well-paid, well-respected. And then they should have a functioning government, not too corrupted. And then strong civilian control. And then they can start thinking about reducing and then abolishing military forces. Of course it will be helpful to develop regional security.

[13:52]

I think Costa Rica has survived without being invaded was because they have a strong organization organization of American states so countries know that if they invade their neighbors they'll be in trouble. So in that way diplomacy works. Of course there are many many reasons that countries don't want to oppose their military forces, mostly economic reasons or jobs and prestige and all that.

[14:55]

I sometimes go to like Austria or Germany or member state of European Union and say, do you think you need your own military forces in your country? Military forces are very important when there is a threat for foreign invasion or civil war. Do you have any threat? If you don't, you have military forces just because of your habit or addiction. So what you need is a therapist. So I think, you know, I mean, European is so huge and then none of the member states would be thinking of even protecting themselves from neighboring nations.

[16:05]

And then no one is even thinking of invading any member state because European Union is so serious. So I feel there is a great potential for these nations to start thinking of giving up their own military forces. Of course, for international peacekeeping some kind of forces like the Euro Corps, which already exists, may be helpful. So how do we kind of demilitarize one nation after another?

[17:11]

My suggestion will be, it's very important to to get military support. We should make military people love demilitarization. This is a kind of impossible Zen koan, right? It's like making business people love going out of business. But we have developed this process prosperous conversion formula. So the government would call for volunteers in the military to be reinserted into civilian life, maybe participating in national projects, guaranteeing the same benefit and salary.

[18:15]

maybe 5% a year. So I'm sure there are some people who will like to kind of give up their guns, they don't have to use the guns anymore, and then to be retrained to do some civilian work, forest protection, construction. tourist business, education, and so forth. And then if they can do it with the neighboring nations, they don't feel any kind of lack of security. So this is something we are proposing. perhaps we all know that there is not there are maybe completely fully enlightened beings there may be a few in the world but could be very rare like Shakyamuni Buddha but we could always

[19:43]

actualize some elements of enlightenment in our daily lives. And I think the enlightened society is like that. We can paint a big picture. I think that's important to have some kind of understanding and agreement that what would be an enlightened society. What would be a world without war? And then we can actualize just a small part of this enlightenment, social enlightenment in our society. So it's not kind of all or nothing, but it's more like... Enlightened society could be just a vision and a process, practical processes, how to take a next step, and then next.

[21:00]

Thank you so much. If you have any thought, any ideas, objections, Questions? We have some time. Yes? Military forces and police are separate. So, of course, Costa Rica has police forces, border control. So some of the military duties including disaster, rescue and so forth can be done by some other groups too. too crazy?

[22:17]

Yes. Well, I think I will be the, you know, I think the U.S. could be the last country I will talk to. I think there's such a kind of strong influence of military-industrial complex, and then there's so much kind of money going on and the influence to the political leaders, everybody. But for example, maybe nuclear weapons.

[23:29]

I have a feeling that majority of US citizens don't want to have nuclear weapons. It's useless. And we're spending so much money. Even if we maybe cut the nuclear weapons program into half, we can have free health care to all US citizens and residents. So if we kind of tell everyone, I think people would like to at least reduce the nuclear weapons program. It is so difficult because of such a kind of loving power. So there is a kind of difference between the public opinion and then policy. The problem is the electoral system is so much kind of money oriented.

[24:33]

But I think it's important, maybe it's useful to look for the best electoral system in the world where people don't have to spend their own money and then collect friends' money, supporters' money, but run for the public office without spending any money. And then their decisions will be policy making will be purely for the best of the nation. I think it will take only maybe a few young people to say, okay, I will dedicate all my life to kind of change this in our country. I think it could be, this may be too naive, but it is possible. This is how European Union was born, how Costa Rica was demilitarized.

[25:40]

It takes only a few people. And then who can sort of capture people's imagination and then other people join? Yes. Well, I don't disagree, but also it is possible that we can create a kind of culture to turn kind of our violent thinking and violent habit into non-violent habit.

[26:46]

I do think it is possible. And I think maybe in terms of practicality, if we think of sending our military to, for example, Syria or somewhere, and then... just maybe think about how much money it will cost for so many years, how many human lives we have to prepare to lose. And then if we spend maybe 1% of that fund for research, what is possible to have a nonviolent solution, bringing all experts here, and then how do we do that? And then they may have some suggestions. And then if we spend maybe 10% of their budget for war for real actions, maybe helping for building schools, sending food, or making people of the country happy on both sides.

[28:13]

Happy people don't fight. And so, in a way, in a practical way, how much it costs, what is kind of most effective? Maybe we can think about it. Yes. I think in the Enlightenment society, everyone is an artist. You know, everyone. I think art makes us happy. Music, poetry, sculpture, painting, dance. If everyone dances, sings, write poetry,

[29:14]

there will be no violence. That are not basic needs but that are created needs in terms of craving for more material goods. How do you envision that without this nurturing of the Buddhist culture and the role of society can we dismantle these fake needs that we create in terms of materialism and creating a society where the

[30:26]

Our illnesses of stress, and you talked earlier about the psychological needs of people and the distress of mental illness, is the most expensive illness in the world today. I think it takes maybe individual awakening that What we really need is our own happiness. And that our own happiness actually comes from other people's happiness too. Just being happy together. Not just superficial happiness but more genuine kind of satisfaction in life. meaning of life.

[31:29]

And often we get kind of confused, you know. When we acquire something new and expensive, we become happy. And then we get this idea that maybe the more we get, the happier we become. And then to do that, we need to have more income more resources, more power. And then we get trapped in this kind of materialistic direction. And then forget that maybe we get stressed. We become sick by working too hard to get more. And also, the more we have, the more potential that our children will fight.

[32:36]

I have seen so many examples that material is actually a story. In a way, it takes some kind of self-education or a witness to find the real meaning of life with some integrity. So I guess we need to help each other. I think meditation and practice, meditative practice, can help us to see the reality of life much more deeply. experiences in Costa Rica.

[33:50]

I was there last year and I really noticed that everyone had a very dignified presence and that they were very proud of their education. But what I was most impressed by were the other voices that I heard while living there. I heard the voices of hallowed monkeys, hallowed monkeys in the morning, and iguanas wandering along, and just a lot of different beings around, like horses just walking about a rider, going along their own way. And I realized that as rich as this country is, I feel a little bit left. and that I don't, I'm not coexisting with other beings as much here as I did in Christabita.

[34:54]

And I just wonder about how that plays into this whole sense of community and us learning from each other when so many of our other species, you know, our brother and our kind of their voices are not Well, certainly, Costa Rica is special, and Costa Rican people are special. I was very impressed when I first met Mr. Carastro in the head, and he gave a keynote speech at this conference. But he was friends with the schoolteachers and just regular citizens, just completely mixed. So in Costa Rica, if you like to meet the president, you can just make an appointment.

[36:02]

And then I went to the inauguration of President Reyes, the second term. And it was tunneling to Australia. And there was not so much kind of security postage. I don't think so forth. And we had a new place that was just walking just right there. There were so many people. It was so peaceful. And... People may say, well, Costa Rica is different. That's true, but I think all nations, however different from Costa Rica, can learn from Costa Rica. But also Costa Rica can learn from different things, like electoral system, transparency,

[37:10]

Yeah, there are actually some other things. Yes. You mentioned that it's very important to have an idea or an ideal of what an enlightened society would look like, or at least having some picture of what to work towards. In nations like the United States, I feel like we have so many different cultures within the United States, just like from one ocean to another. It is so vast. I think there's so many different ideas of what a more perfect United States would look like that I feel like it might be impossible for people to really kind of come to an understanding of even like a basic platform of what to... of some new idea, you know.

[38:20]

Well, the United States is a great nation not because of its military forces or economic strength, but I think the diversity of people And then innovation in technology, but also living styles, you know, kind of new ideas, you know, feminizing, you know, and counterculture, kind of emergence of Buddhism in different worlds. It's been, in a way, engaged Buddhism, for example, is leading the world in many ways. the United States administration for the world. And, of course, we have the other side. We are leading the world in nuclear weapons development.

[39:25]

And we have tentals, spreading tentals and pollution and so forth. So, in a way, we are living in such an exciting society. And I think, you know, like psychology, most of the kind of new stream of the psychology actually come from the United States. So, in many ways, We have so much strength. And I think the vision of the future society also to come from the United States, because we have so many problems in politics and social problems in the gap between the wealthy and the poor.

[40:36]

I think there is a big need for some kind of big vision, what Joanna Macy says, calls the big term. I think big term for the more environmental way of living, more sustainable way of living. It's already happening in the past. We don't see it so much, but the big turn may be happening, but we may be behind climate change. Pollutions are going so fast, and the big turn is not going so fast. So we could collectively explore different ideas and break peace. a world without war.

[41:39]

I think we could really start thinking about it and then transform our society for this sustainable direction. I think the whole world is kind of rushing towards self-destruction. And I think because of the environmental destruction, because of the productions of weapons, nuclear weapons and so forth, selling. And then people think that we are making profit by selling weapons to other countries. But they may be used against us. It's happening, right? So we need to think about what is actually good for us.

[42:45]

Just making profit, is that more important than our own safety? Thank you. I think maybe one more question. Yes. How would you recommend that we best guide our children towards as far as enlightenment and wisdom, just as a character sharing in schools. Well, first, maybe we need to develop our own kind of vision, you know, among the grown-ups, but also I think it would be a great idea to involve children asking them what they are doing. Do they want war? in the kitchen, you know, when they are grown up or not. So they want kind of environment clean and sustainable.

[43:49]

Thank you so much. Have a great day. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfzc.org and click Giving.

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