Tonight's subject is the Machiavelli prison. I feel it is most appropriate that I talk about Machiavelli's principle in Machiavelli's books. I think in the simplest way, look at the mightier principle piece, let's say, is there anything that we all have in common? Is there anything that different cultures have in common? Is there anything at different levels of age groups of people that are common?

[01:12]

Is there anything in common between people with different backgrounds? so-called high society, low society, middle society or something. So when we ask this question, honestly, I think we will come to a conclusion which will say we indeed have something to come. That is I don't think there is any society, any culture, any religion who will not encourage us to develop love and kindness.

[02:21]

I don't think there is any kind of effort which was not attempt for development of loving-kindness. Therefore, conclusion for me is that loving-kindness is the common interest of humanity. Common interest. Now, how can we see that possibility which will promise us that we can develop loving kindness and others can develop loving kindness. And we and others can communicate each other through loving kindness.

[03:30]

based on the foundation of love and kindness. When we ask those questions, then it becomes rather specific. And these specifics can be, let's say, displayed in greater length. For instance, if you study Buddhism. I'm quite certain if you study any authentic religion or culture or education, honestly, authentically, I'm quite certain that is what will be the kind of final result of whatever you study. But as far as I am concerned, how did I learn about loving-kindness?

[04:40]

And what makes me to be able to say something about loving-kindness responsibly, I can only tell you that because of Buddhism, I was able to know about world kindness. Not much as I should, but just enough that I can be not loud, but knowingly about it. I'll try to do it in a nice way. In Buddhism, there is the principle of loving kindness. Some Mahayanas and some Vajrayanas might like to say the Theravada aspect of Buddhism don't have loving kindness, which is not true.

[05:57]

I can't agree with that. There is more and less emphasis on particular aspect of practice because no one can do everything at once. Because everyone has this one mind which is limitless but somehow limited in reality. Therefore we can't do too many things at the same time. It would be wonderful if we can, but unfortunately we can't. Because of that, the particular methods, definitely there is more emphasis on loving kindness and less emphasis on loving kindness. It's an obvious kind of emphasis. But besides that, everything about Buddhism, or as my limited knowledge is concerned, is based on loving kindness one way or another.

[07:06]

Now, when you look into the basic fundamental principles of Buddhism, we have to, fundamentally, we have to, let's say, forward our thoughts to the time of the Buddha. That is 2,500 years ago. And when we look at that prince, the prince who died, Why the prince left the palace? Why? He thought he can help humanity at large by leaving the palace, then helping with limited kind of perspective

[08:20]

to his subject by living in the palace. Because of that, Prince Siddhartha left the palace. We should never attempt to think that Prince Siddhartha left palace because ruling a kingdom is too much for him. So his reason for leaving the palace is he can help humanity by doing that. Not only that, but first that little person. After leaving the palace, then as you know, maybe detailed, maybe roughly, that he practiced for many years He practiced for many years to hardship.

[09:24]

It is not that hardship is something special, but if you wanted to get something very significant done in a short time, you must make up for it. Therefore, to achieve something most significant in life, in such a short period of time, that he had to work very hard. So, after many years of very hard work, finally, he attained liberation. Therefore, the Prince Siddhartha became Buddha. After that achievement, after that realization, which is purely based on loving-kindness. Loving-kindness based on loving-kindness because he saw by attaining enlightenment he can help humanity.

[10:37]

I'm saying humanity because, you know, that's what we're dealing with. But there's much more, of course. It is beyond. But there's no point in trying to get into your sphere and get nowhere. The Buddha's world, attainment itself, is motivated by love and kindness, And the path through which he attains that liberation, enlightenment, is through the practice of loving-kindness. Then, finally, his activity was the manifestation of loving-kindness. Even now, after more than two thousand years, you know, melodically speaking, I think we are enjoying immensely the result of what he achieved.

[11:44]

Buddha was just one man, you know, just one single man, just like any of us. And after his enlightenment, about 45 years, he taught, and the materials that he left He contributed for humanity still now. And that is what loving kindness really means. And that is what loving kindness does. Now, every single words that were taught by Buddha purely is the manifestation of that realization which is achieved through that loving kindness.

[12:49]

Because of that, there is the essence of loving kindness in every single word that Buddha taught. Now we can elaborate loving-kindness. We can elaborate loving-kindness by compassion, impartiality, you know, and joy. We can elaborate each of them by saying compassion, loving-kindness, joy, impartiality. That is what makes any Buddhism what called bodhicitta, the concrete. So the loving kindness is one of the four major segments which describes bodhicitta. So each of those four somehow describes all other three to make any of them complete.

[13:58]

Now, In the application of the loving kindness, when we look at it as teaching of Buddha, it takes a sort of transformation in itself. It has a history. It has a tradition. It has a meaning. it has a kind of very precise, detailed sort of explanation. There is an answer. Almost all the questions that exist have been asked already. So if we ask a question that will be just repeating something that somebody said a long time ago, therefore, you know, Every single answer that we can think of are there.

[15:07]

All the answers are there because they have been asked. Of course we can ask. That's good for us. Now, that takes one particular kind of transformation. But then, we imagine ourselves, since we know about loving-kindness as part of the teachings of Buddha and a Buddhist monk talking here. So this way, little bit hard to imagine, but we imagine that we are just a ordinary person who never heard about Buddha, who never heard about Buddhism, who never heard about this word loving-kindness as part of the teaching of Buddha. If we imagine that we put ourselves in that situation, then you have a question.

[16:13]

What would that loving kindness be? As a follower of Buddha, I have to say that loving kindness is nothing less than the loving kindness that Buddha was teaching. Exactly the same. Exactly the same. The loving-kindness, which is beyond a human being, a loving-kindness, a natural one, you know, between animals. There is animals who have more loving-kindness than other animals. Some dogs are more kind. Some dogs are more mean. So what about that one? The same thing. Exactly the same thing. The loving-kindness. What it does is the same thing.

[17:17]

The loving-kindness which is taught by Buddha, loving-kindness which is taught by father and mother, loving-kindness which is influenced by friends, loving-kindness which just emerged inside you, loving-kindness that you have discovered by life experience. All are the same loving-kindness. All are the same loving-kindness. They does the same thing. Now, when you look at two persons getting along, honestly, not pretending. There's many people getting along, but they pretend. They don't come. Leave them alone. We don't bother them. I'm joking. We don't bother them. Take our conversation, OK? Few persons honestly live getting along and happy.

[18:30]

Why? Why these two persons get along and happy honestly? Because they have loving kindness to each other. So they get along. And when you see some kind of problem between people, some kind of problem between groups, What is happening? What is it? When you look at, you know, directly, I mean directly, not complicated way, but directly, that loving-kindness is lacking there, between both kind or one kind. Therefore, it gives all kind of spaces, even a coincidence for disharmony, difficulties, etc., etc. Therefore, knowing kindness generally plays most important role in the life of everyone.

[19:38]

Now, one thing I must say, I shouldn't forget to say this, this is a small difference, but important difference, between loving kindness that is from the teaching, which is like teaching of Buddha, and loving kindness which is right there. A small difference, but important difference, is loving kindness that we try to just do it by ourselves. We might make mistake. We might get it wrong. We might think we are going to Canada. But after 200 miles of walk, we lose our cactus. So we end up in Mexico after three months walk. Something like that can happen.

[20:44]

We can make mistake. Even if we try to be sincere, that is not a guarantee. Still we can make mistakes. Therefore, the difference there is that when we follow a profound teaching which is alive, there is less chance for mistakes. Still, teachers can make mistakes. You can misunderstand it as well. That also can happen. But there is a few steps more. Therefore, there is more kind of system and more kind of direction that protects you from making mistakes. That is the only difference. And those protections, those

[21:45]

kind of a specific entity that helps you from making a mistake, protects you from making a mistake, etc. We call them blessings. You know, wisdom, blessing, etc., etc. The presence, the aliveness, all of that. Besides that, There's no difference. All the loving kindness is the same thing. Now, as a Buddhist, I wanted to use my life meaningfully by teaching the words of Buddha. All of you. That's what I know, that's what I have, so I can only give what I have.

[22:51]

But I also saw the other side. There is so much that every individual go through. There's so much that existing culture, education, religion, etc., can offer, there's so much. For me, it is not the traditional Buddhism that have something doubt. Traditional Buddhism have very precious things. I can say, I don't think traditional Buddhism lacks anything. You know, anything that I can think of which is meaningful is there in the teachings of Buddha, the traditional one.

[23:59]

It is there. But it doesn't mean it is a justification that no one has it but us. I sincerely believe that every culture, every religion, every discipline has something meaningful to offer. If I haven't seen it, that means I do not have enough time to learn about it. And if I don't understand, that means my intelligence is not open enough. Therefore, I somehow, you know, become kind of startled, and I don't want to admit that someone has the same thing that I have. You know, the sense of insecurity and sense of jealousy and sense of all that is right there in us.

[25:11]

We shouldn't have them, but we have them. I admit I have them too. I don't know how severe I have them, but I have them. That's why I'm here. I'm not enlightened. That is the reason. So because of that, because of that reason, I believe that there's so much that is already there as part of humanity, which can contribute so much for humanity, that out of everything, you know, the external kind of images, the terms, the particular kind of traditions, disciplines, I feel so much is there.

[26:11]

But what comes in common if we love in common? At the beginning of my talk here, I say that I feel good about talking about natural principles and natural institute. That's why. I will say a little bit about Montreal Institute here. I did not start with Montreal Institute because I wanted to be famous or something. Actually, to make Montreal Institute a reality, I had to somehow sacrifice lots of things. You shouldn't forget that. You know, in a certain level, it's somehow kind of, you know, gives me some sort of interesting attitude about people.

[27:16]

It's nice to think Buddhism is not enough. Something like that. Oh, yes. You never know. So that way, forget about that. Forget about I&M making Metairie Institute to gain fame. No, not at all. Do I make Metairie Institute? Because I don't have anything to do. That's not you. Because I have plenty of responsibility. You see? I am right now. If I think like most people think negatively, I am buried under the ground, maybe 200 feet. All the responsibilities on my shoulder, even on my head, I hardly can reach.

[28:26]

Therefore, it's not that I don't have anything to do. Okay. Then, what on earth is the reason that I start naturally instinctively? I saw there is great benefit when people somehow able to say, we all have something in common. There's great benefit there. It is a small thing. It's just like switch, you know, switch on. But when you are able to say, We have something in common that changes so much right there, positively. Therefore, I wanted to be able to share a little bit of that which I have to those who are ready to have it, who are just like, you know, almost ready to crack a loop.

[29:41]

It is filled, but what left is to crash. So, the people who are often kind, compassionate, still into their own kind of trip, they are trapped with a very thin sort of shell, which will not allow them to learn. Therefore, I saw that and I felt Medellin Institute and its effort would bring together people of different disciplines who are aiming towards the same goal, towards them. Therefore, they will not have this unnecessary Burden in them.

[30:44]

Which burdens are insecurity? Which burdens are opposite of trust? Which burdens are all kind of, you know, conditions for ego? My life is best. I am better. You know, all that kind of. There's so many elements of it. It is good people. The good people's biggest problem is they think they're better than other people. You know, honestly. To break through that will mean a lot for them. I don't mean I broke through that as I wish or as I should, but I broke through that a little bit. Just a little bit. And what it really did to me was a lot. I can say it did to me a lot.

[31:48]

I still have millions of balloons to break. But still, you know, still the tremendous kind of living that I can experience and I've already experienced by example seeing in Christianity, you know, just by able to say, you know, Jesus Christ, he is a Buddha or not, I don't know, but he's definitely a Bodhisattva. I mean, that changed a lot. You know, can you imagine when people even don't know Jesus Christ is a Bodhisattva? And they doubt. And nowadays, When I hear some people talk about Christianity, you know, even they talk about Christianity in a very sincere way from their side, but the way they interpret it, even my knowledge is so little, I see they are making Jesus Christ look bad.

[33:04]

You know, they often see it. For me, he's better than that. Definitely better than that. Just like that. It gives more strength for my Buddhist background. It is a confirmation of what Buddha is and what he's teaching. Buddha. It goes beyond all the living things. So when I learn the positive side of a culture, a religion, that gives me clear idea of what this is. When I know nothing but just what I belong to, limitation and limitless and all of those things are just written there in the book, Black and White.

[34:11]

And I see the same type of people. I talk with the same type of people, same type of mind that I communicate. Therefore, my limitlessness, after some time, becomes rather mechanical sort of limitlessness, you know. And when I see something else, it is most helpful that I understand personally one or two steps more what limited means and what limitedness means. I have an example. If it sounds presumptuous, don't give up on it. I don't mean anything negative. Once I was talking with a person, a stranger. That stranger is a wonderful man.

[35:16]

And he told me, do you have, do you enjoy yourself? That's what he said. Do you enjoy yourself? That's it. And I think, and I can't answer other than say, do I have any choice? Have I ever enjoyed myself or not? Then you say, no, I mean, do you have any problem? I say it. I don't have any problem. Of course, there's lots of things. You have to do things, you know. You just can't just sit there and everything fall into order. You have to be there. But beside that, I don't have any problem." Then he said, Well, I think I'm not making myself clear.

[36:25]

Maybe what you say problem and what I say problem will make a difference. What do you mean by problem? For you, what it means by problem? Then I have been not so nice to you. I have confessed. I've told them. Well, maybe you have never been into problem. You know, when you are in one of the real problem, then you know what is problem. Then he said, what do you mean? Can I have the nice cream again? I told him, okay, real problem is when you are sick. That is real problem. When you have nothing to eat, that's real problem. When you have no place to stay, that's a real problem. When somebody tries to beat you and kill you, that's a real problem.

[37:29]

But he said, I see, I have never been more dumb. So he was a very lucky person. I'm very happy for him. Anyway, anyway, you know, When you see another dimension, another dimension, then your understanding gets, how do you say, increased. It somehow feeds lots of necessary and precious wisdom into you. One simple kind of openness can make an extremely valuable leap in your important journey.

[38:35]

So I saw that. Therefore, I attempted to introduce this effort. And so far, it looks that it is going to the right direction. I'm very happy about it. What I'm saying is, because I'm here, and I saw lots of you have, like, you know, robots, one behind me, etc., and so maybe it is right thing for you to hear from me. Anyway, after all, As a person who tries to apply loving-kindness in one's own life, as a person who tries to do one's best to assist others through developing loving-kindness, I think it is very important for ourselves

[39:48]

to practice loving kindness as much as we can. That is very important. Very important part. I think it is very much possible that we try to somehow tell about loving kindness. We try to invoke the kind of activities that help generate loving kindness. We might learn about loving kindness, we might encourage other people for learning and practicing loving kindness, but we might not practice loving kindness ourselves. That is very much possible. It sounds hypocritical, it sounds terrible, but there's no point denying it, since that is possible. Therefore, Besides doing everything we can, us, them, we practice loving kindness within ourselves.

[40:58]

And it has to be beyond any kind of limitation. The ultimate limitless is something, but relative, tangible limitless is something else. So I'm talking about relative, right here in and without limitation. So, how can we practice loving kindness in our life by ourselves without involving less limitation as possible? How can we do that? Well, I think Number one, we have to be loving and kind to ourselves. That's number one, I think. That's where it starts. How can we be loving and kind to ourselves?

[42:05]

This vocabulary, I will tell you, this vocabulary didn't exist in me until I came to West. Okay? Not because this fact didn't exist, but somehow I didn't get it. I'm so dumb. After I got here, then I somehow caught this vocabulary, and it's true. So number one thing, we, each of us, we will have definitely our shortcomings, all kinds of shortcomings. Many people find Jesus not to like themselves, not to be kind to themselves, not to be loving to themselves. This is very much possible. But after all, what we really are You know, we have to know what we really are.

[43:10]

Each of us, each of us, ultimately are perfect. Perfection. Ultimately, we are the purest, we are the most perfect, we are the most positive, There is nothing that each of us don't have. That is the first thing that you have to understand. Especially if you are Buddhist, that is the principle of Buddhism. We call it Buddha nature. Each of us ultimately is Buddha. Alternate negativity doesn't exist. Okay? Alternate negativity doesn't exist in Buddhist principle.

[44:15]

So, alternately we are correct. Maybe you will naturally say, why so and so and so and such and such, okay? Then that is not relevant. Relatively we have all the shortcomings. Relatively we have anger, relatively we have ignorance, relatively we have attachment, all kind of things. Each of us have tons of all kinds of things. And that is relative. All negativities are relative. That is the definition of positive and negative. The place for the positive is ultimate. The place for the negative is relative. Relatively positive is also possible. It also happens.

[45:18]

But negativity, as you overcome negativity, what would be left there is the positive. Therefore, as a principle, each of us, ultimately, most precious thing, purest thing, ultimately. That is the major, principal reason why we should respect ourselves. Why we should be loving to ourselves, kind to ourselves. That's it. And on top of that, then, when we know That is what you are, then you know. Then you have to be able to somehow know. You're supposed to know that's what everyone is. That's what you are, then everyone got to be that. So everyone's ultimate is pure.

[46:23]

Most precious, most pure, most powerful, if you like to say that. That's also all right to say. Now, how to take care of that? We are taking care of this one way or another. We are taking care of this very badly, or we are taking care of this nicely. Nothing goes into nothing. Everything works. Everything works. If I drop this cup, it will break. If I don't eat, I will go hungry. So everything works. Now, instead of being negative to ourselves, we be positive to ourselves. Because negativity brings more negativity. Positive makes things better.

[47:28]

Quite simple. That is the reason, you know, why we should be positive. We try to be loving, we try to be kind to ourselves. Therefore, we also try to be loving and try to be kind to others. That is fundamental. On that principle, that we can be slightly more advanced than that. You've got to. That is what we call skillful means. You know, on that basic knowledge, the fundamental knowledge, we add a little bit of wisdom in there. So that wisdom allows us to be real helpful. Not just, you know, helpful. Real helpful. Okay? It is like that.

[48:32]

Couple of weeks ago, I got a call, you know, overseas telephone call. Okay? In there, I got a very good example. Somebody tried to be very kind, but not being skillful, so being very humble. So, that's what I mean by real kind. Real helpful. What I got into this telephone, this is a very silly subject, so maybe it's okay. Don't know why. It was about somebody's mother. Somebody's mother is terribly ill. And anything she eats goes away. So she's sick for many months and food doesn't stay inside her. And very desperate.

[49:34]

So doctors are there, everything is there. And why did that person call me? I don't really understand because any doctor would know why. When I asked her, it was the baby. So I asked her, you know, why don't you call doctors? Why do you call me? She said, I want you to pray. Then I said, of course I will pray. Then she told me, my mother cannot eat anything. Everything goes cold. And I told her, what did you give to her? Then she said, this is the point, she said, we are afraid. Since she cannot digest anything, If we give hot fruit, you know, it will somehow make things inside hot and let it come out. So we give her all cold fruit. Then I asked her, that puzzle, I told her, what kind of cold do you give her?

[50:41]

She said, she can soup cold. Imagine, milk cold. I mean, if I were your sister, what would you call me? So I told her, I think it is quite simple, maybe you call the right person. But the harder I move, you hit me. Well, I have spent about five minutes of my time there talking, but I'm happy after all. It helped her. So, you know, we try to be helpful to ourselves, we try to be helpful to others by loving-kindness, but that is not a guarantee. We have to have wisdom, knowing how to go about it, we have to have the skillful means,

[51:45]

knowing how to exactly work with it. So that will be the next thing of the fundamental loving-kindness to ourselves and others than the wisdom and the spiritual means which will make it happen for real. So, these are the few things that I have to say about loving-kindness. Now, one last thing I'd like to tell you, because I wrote some request some time ago about emptiness. And I feel loving kindness and emptiness is very closely connected. Therefore, this is maybe not a wrong situation to talk about it for a few minutes. Now, how does loving kindness work? Why does loving kindness work? What space is there for loving kindness?

[52:50]

Allowing loving kindness to be beneficial. We know loving kindness is beneficial. We know it works. But what makes it able to work? Emptiness means that everything is just interdependent manifestation. Therefore, ultimately, nothing is there more than interdependent manifestation. That is the emptiness. So, emptiness, with all kinds of philosophical terms and analysis, the philosophical analysis, there is hundreds of books, difficult books, on the subject of ethics. People can spend, you know, 20 years, 30 years studying ethics and still get rather full head.

[54:02]

The simplest and most basic fundamental thing about emptiness is nothing is more than interdependent manifestation. That is the emptiness. So we can somehow be absence of love and kindness. We can also be with the presence of love and kindness. Because of the absence of loving-kindness, we face lots of suffering. We create lots of suffering for others. Because of presence of loving-kindness, we ourselves experience joy. We help others also to make their life better. And it goes quite far from there, but that would be the first step. That will be the first stop, you know, first stop where we will somehow gain happiness with our life, ourself, and we will be able to provide happiness for others.

[55:22]

So that is the kind of reason why there is a space for loving God, because of essence. there is small shortage of information about emptiness. It is almost like, it becomes almost like nihilism, that nothing is there. I mean, it's not true, everything is here, you know. I am talking, you are listening, and you all want to put people there, responding beautifully, all of this is here. So it doesn't mean this is not here. But it means this is not here more than interdependent manifestation. If this is more than interdependent manifestation, then there is no space for anything else. So Angelus means this is not more than interdependent manifestation.

[56:30]

There is two sentences which describes it very clearly. I must confess right now I don't remember which text these two sentences come from. But these two sentences is very simple. There is nothing which is not interdependent manifestation. Therefore, there is nothing which is not active. These two sentences. There's place and place. Like this. Very clear and simple. So I hope this focuses some of your interest in everything. Okay? Well, I have been talking. You have been listening. Now it will be my time to listen and your time to talk. And I try to answer any question that you might like to ask. So we have a lot of time. About Maitreya Buddha, did you see that as an individual person who will come into this world, or is it a mental for all of us who are practicing Buddhism?

[57:52]

Maitreya Buddha is a name. Maitreya Buddha is a name of a particular Buddha. Like our past Buddha or, as far as his teaching is concerned, our present Buddha is Shakyamuni. Buddha Shakyamuni. So the material Buddha is a name for future Buddha. A Buddha who is yet to come as a Buddha, just as Buddha Shakyamuni became Buddha. and a historical person. And his name is Maitreya Buddha. Now, maybe it is helpful for you to know, make it more clear. In the sutra, as a prediction for Maitreya Buddha, when Bodhisattva Maitreya becomes

[59:01]

Buddha met here. The time for that, from this present time, is about 20,000 centuries from now. So the teaching of Buddha Sakyamuni, one way or another, it will last for a long time. And when the teaching of Buddha Sakyamuni Its taste, its smell, I think its sound goes first, I think. Then the taste and smell, everything is gone. Then the material Buddha will attain enlightenment and then teach again. So that is the next Buddhism, the teaching of the material Buddha. And so that will be, that will happen something like 20,000 centuries from now, over 20,000 centuries.

[60:06]

So it is a historical person, which is predicted in sutras by Buddha, as part of 1000 Buddha, which is predicted. Yeah, I was interested in your remark about the vocabulary of the one-time squirted self. That came to you, like, between, besides the school you're studying, how do you connect it here with the West? And I was wondering how you're talking to yourself about that before you just have to copy it. Well... You know, okay. You really like to hear? You are curious. Well, for my mind, okay, it can be because where I brought up, it can be because Eastern culture and mentality, it can be anything.

[61:12]

But I will consider There's nothing more precious than yourself. You can never hate yourself. It doesn't exist in my head, honestly speaking. You can't like anything better than yourself. So I can be wrong, but maybe there's many people who hate themselves over there also. But it never came into my mind. And when I came to West first, I came across with people who said, I hate myself. You know, I couldn't understand. First, honest people. First, I thought they're out of their mind. We have crazy people. I mean, mad, practically mad. And they would say all kinds of things.

[62:17]

They would do all kinds of things. But I did not connect that with a functioning, decent, down-to-earth person at that time. That is eight years ago. So somehow I had to work a little bit hard on it. Since you really like to hear, I have to say it. Dr. Shea, sometimes we are forced to commit harsh acts, from either destroying an insect, to disciplining a child, to defending a country. Can you talk a little bit about the role of loving kindness and compassion in relation to motivation? Well, I'm sure we should try to avoid any kind of harmful actions and intentions towards others.

[63:25]

We should avoid to remember that. We should do our best to avoid. But it doesn't mean there's no space for loving kindness in a worse situation like a war. Even in a war, even if you are a soldier with a machine gun in your hand, you know, fighting with your enemy, I can't deny that there is no root for loving kindness. Still there is root for loving kindness. By some circumstances, without any choice, if you have to do it, you know, you should, there's no reason thinking that You know, there's no way to practice loving-kindness here, therefore I want to be absence of loving-kindness now. I'm sure there is truth for loving-kindness. And I can't say exactly how, because I wasn't, you know, in that sort of situation, but if I am honestly a loving-kindness practitioner, number one, I will not be involved in those kind of things, and number two,

[64:33]

If I have to evolve without any choice, I don't know what that can be, but if that happens, I'm sure I will find a space for a lot of things. Well, I think anybody can understand that. So, I'm sure there is space. So before you take a harsh action, you can dedicate it that this is, you're approaching this in a positive way, as positive as possible. Well, I think that's very hard. I understand what you mean, but that is a little bit hard for you to draw a conclusion. Why? It is, of course, anything that we are speaking here, since we are just talking about it, learning about it, it is a little bit of ideology. It's involved here. You know, a little bit of ideology is involved here.

[65:36]

We are not doing it right now, much as we are talking, isn't it? All of us just sitting here in a wonderful safe, you know, and in church, and talking about this, you know. A little bit of ideology is involved there. But if we talk about that kind of subject, then it is more of an argument. Because it's not happening. So I don't know exactly how to draw a conclusion there. I don't think there is any way. I don't think there is a way that we can draw a conclusion in that sort of thing. But another reason for that is we might be in that kind of situation in millions of different ways. In millions of different occasions. Nothing will be exactly the same. Therefore, according to what it is, we might somehow find a way to do it better at that situation.

[66:42]

So I can't judge on using the decade or whatever, or you might say I'm not going to get angry and carried away by this. I will not lose my awareness. You know, anything like that. But how to do a conclusion? Well, I think I think there is this concept of your loving kindness towards others should be disregarding yourself.

[67:50]

There is that. But it doesn't mean the person would get there without going through first a kindness to yourself. Maybe a bodhisattva who is like that had gone through everything in past life. That is very much... I mean, it has to happen. It is like a steps. And if you can have love and kindness towards others, And without concern about yourself, that is good. I am not discouraging you not to have that. If you are like that, it's already okay. It's good. You don't have to be confused. But I like to comment on what you said. Two things coming at the same time. You know, lots of times that happens. Okay. Rinpoche, do you expect Tibetan Buddhism to be one of the foremost exponents of Buddhism in the United States, or do you expect it to be some other sect in Buddhism?

[69:14]

Well, I can't expect anything. Why? Why? Because number one, number one, Tibetan Buddhism or Japanese Buddhism or Chinese Buddhism, I mean, there's so much. There's so much. I don't think most people notice here how many types of Buddhism are there. It is kind of massive, you know. If I bring, I think you're trying to bring traditional custom, one set of each Buddhist tradition, I mean, I can tell you a huge museum. You know, that much difference is there. But it doesn't mean very much to me, honestly speaking. Why there is all these different things? Because Buddhism is an old religion, number one.

[70:17]

Olden days, you know, between 100 mile distance, the customs are different. The lifestyles are different. Sometimes even language are different because people don't travel that much. And even now, even now, I met with people in certain parts of the world, like Himalayan regions. People haven't travelled, you know, more than 100 miles. I mean, here only 100 miles. I met with many people. So that way, the culture, the livelihood, language, all of that affects how you dress, what you emphasize. Therefore, even if it is one Buddhism, it becomes too many traditions of Buddhism.

[71:20]

So therefore, it is very superficial to me. Nothing wrong with it. Even it is pretty good, actually. It shows the refined kind of quality, because each culture is so old. And it is refined by hundreds and hundreds of generations. Therefore, it is a kind of something that went through lots of filtration. I had no desire that Tibetan Buddhism would take over. It doesn't make any sense to me to think like that. But right now, as a population, Chinese Mahayana, is the largest right now.

[72:22]

Because you just look at Chinatown here, how many of those people's backgrounds are Buddhism? And almost all of them are Buddhist. And what kind of Buddhism is that? It's Chinese Mahayana. Right now the Chinese Mahayana is the largest for tradition, and then I think second is Viet Nam, Viet Nam Buddhism. But this difference doesn't exist. Different language, different culture. Yes? You mentioned impartiality. Could you elaborate on that a bit? Okay. Impartiality means that your loving-kindness, your compassion, your joy will not take any particular sight.

[73:30]

It is impartial. It is for all sentient beings. That's what impartiality means. It have to start from somewhere. It start from friends and then, you know, it goes further. In your experience? Would you have seen people move from a lack of loving kindness, respecting to themselves and to others, into an expression of loving kindness to the self and to others? Is there some particular, you know, practical step-by-step things that you have seen people do in order to make that transformation? As far as Buddhism is concerned, there is practice. It's quite simple. You learn about it. And you pray with this. You say about it. And then you think about it.

[74:35]

Then you carefully, skillfully apply that. That's very much a concept. But something came into my mind But in West, I saw people, this was I saw in West more, right? When people develop loving kindness or in presence of loving kindness kind of situation, then they become very emotional. They cry and they somehow become, you know, a sort of... Very vulnerable. Very vulnerable. Delicate. And that can become a problem. We have to be sensitive, of course. We shouldn't be like a, you know, pop. Just can't hear anything, can't feel anything.

[75:39]

You shouldn't be like that. But when we are oversensitive, it itself becomes a problem. You know? Therefore, that is something that maybe we have to get aware of, that we should not encourage ourselves to go on being sensitive and vulnerable and all that, emotional and all of that. We have to somehow allow our real sensitivities to manifest definitely, but with a kind of Cautious? Cautious? With a caution. With a caution. This is a very good question. I want to know how Dzogchen school, I don't know if you like Dzogchen. Yeah. You're doing very well. The skill of virtue is understood in the world.

[76:44]

Tibetan Buddhism have eight main lineage, eight. And the eight lineage all, how do you say, rooted to India. And because of the particular person who brought the particular teaching into Tibet to buy a cross in the Kinalaya mountain that long way, So that is a very big deal in the States. I think that is more difficult than going around the world, I think, 10 times now. So because of individuals brought this in different times and also different areas, Tibet is pretty big. Original Tibet is really, really big. What you see in the maps these days is I think about half of it. I don't know what happened to the other half.

[77:47]

It's still there. So because of different time and different person and different areas of Tibet, then it became eight lineage. And Dzogchen, and , et cetera, are kind of common term in one way. But there is also particular involvement with that term, with particular lineage. So example with Nyingma lineage, they use the term . example, use the term . You know, I just gave a rough example with . Therefore, when Nyingma talks about Dzogchen, they talk from the most basic to the highest, using Dzogchen as the basic term.

[78:50]

And when Kanche talks about the same subject, they use the term Chakche, and they talk about the whole thing from the basic to the top. You see? and sometimes some kind of intellectual, how you say, emphasis that happened, that some person sometimes the term users like to say Dzogchen uses too big words. And sometimes Dzogchen, you know, term users like to say the chapter, the chapter's terms are too fundamental, etc. And that's fun, that's nice. You know, the human aliveness...

[79:53]

That's good. That makes things work. I have a question. You just mentioned about emotions and loving kindness. If indeed you thought that emotion was part of that, then you realize that it isn't. And you start to need to re-qualitate changes around that. and then you start to experience pain, and... Let's say pain, or even your people that you get emotionally kind to, you're not emotionally kind to them now because you try to exercise skillful means, and then they start to treat you in a different way. What's going on there? Well, I think... What you're saying is the most realistic, basic process, I think. That's what we're talking about, if I understand it correctly.

[80:56]

I think this is very true that in any situation, beginning is a little bit naive. I mean, that is the place for naïveness, you know? The naïveness, the concept, the reality, the term exists. So there must be a place for it. So what is the place for that? It's the beginning. You know, that you involve in something that you haven't involved in the past. And when you're involved with it the first time, you see the difference. You see the difference. It's just like, you know, a fake flower and a real flower. You see the difference. You never saw a real flower in your life, and you saw one. Then you say, oh, this is wonderful. This is beautiful. And that is the... Then you become naive about it.

[82:02]

That is the place for the very naive... But when you're really involved in it a little bit longer, then this thrill and this wonder and this all the kind of naive aspects of something, that goes away. Because you are more knowledgeable about it. You know more about it. You're more mature about it. Therefore, your kind of emotional growth, all these things goes away. And I personally will say that is good. That is good, because we have to grow up. We definitely have to grow up. We can't just always be, in one place, you have to proceed forward.

[83:06]

I think, far as other people's are concerned, you say you treat somebody emotionally, and then after some time you become wiser, I hope I'm not being presumptuous, but you become wiser, therefore therefore you treat the other person with concern and care, rather than emotional kind of, you know, excitement and all of that. You're superficial, that's very thin, yeah? So you treat the other person real, with real care. The other person feels bad about it. It sounds like most other people did not grow yet. They are somehow growing. Maybe sometimes people never grow for a long, long time.

[84:10]

So if that is true, then even your insight, you know more about the reality, therefore you are not naive anymore. But for their sake, you know, you might make a little bit of drama there. You know, skillful drama. I mean, that's necessary. You have to help them there. But sometimes lots of people are very slow. Therefore, you know, it will not work if you don't be skillful. So being skillful means if you know It is not necessary to be this way. If being that way is the only way for them to appreciate, then somehow, for their sake, sacrifice.

[85:14]

So we have a term for it. This is a little bit too strong a term, so forgive me. But just to make the subject clear, I will use it. Don't take it literally. We have this word saying, play dumb. Because sometimes when we are not dumb, we play a little dumb for the sake of others who help us. I thought a little bit about retaking and sending practice. How, as a practitioner, if you could defend correctly so that it would be more than just a sacrifice, but actually we do the suffering? Well, just by doing it, just by doing it, just by sending positive thoughts to others, positive energies,

[86:20]

taking their negative thoughts and negative energies away from them. We're talking about vampires. Actually, how sincerely do you do it for others? That much possibilities for trading, if you look at the good side, it's helicopters. You know, the principle box for being effective is always there, isn't it? The most effective way is you take a stick and hit on their knee. It will hurt them. So they say, oh, you're really doing something. Now you just sit there and send your love of kindness to them and take their negativity away. They might say, nothing has happened. You must keep laughing. So that is the difference. Because this is not physical. This is mental. But mental one, you need more skill.

[87:24]

They also need some kind of, let's say, part that they themselves play. It will be quicker. Because you also do sending and taking, and they also do sending and taking. This way it works. Since they don't do it, and you're the one who's doing it, And for them to really get it is a little bit harder. But even if they don't feel anything and you don't see anything, if you do it, much, much better than not doing it. So, we have to somehow carry on. And when we say mastering something, you know, this word mastering something becomes master of something. you know how to do it. When you know how to do it, then you become master of that particular subject.

[88:27]

And how you become that, first you have to understand what it is, then you have to know how to do it, then you have to do it. So as you do it, how much you do it, then that much you become accustomed to it. How much you become accustomed to it, that much you become master of that. So we have to carry on to be able to believe the fact. We'll take time. All right, and I think time for us to excuse ourselves. I will ask Dr. Moulin to pray with me, so I'm sure he will come home.

[89:28]

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