What's different about this room? Did you all decide to do that or was it set up this way? It just happened. I think people here gravitated towards the fireplace and the rest formed around it. I see. We can see everybody. Everyone can see everybody. This is our last class, so we will never gather this way again. You all realize this, don't you? I'd like everyone to say their name again. Linda. Michael. Denny. Jerilyn. Mary. Siobhan. Gwen. Jack. Catherine. Greg. Simon. Jesse. Catherine. Heather. Matt. Heather. Siobhan. Anna. Matt. Jerilyn. Linda. Greg. Courtney. Linda. Michael. Neither. Carol. Carol. Robin. Judith.

[01:03]

Welcome. You have laryngitis? Robin has laryngitis. But you can hear just fine. Okay. That's what it says, I don't think. Oh, I had wanted... I forgot. I had wanted us to each go around when we said our name to say what our favorite food is. Oh, yeah. Let's do that. So let's try that again. Fried tofu. Go the other way. The other way. Okay. Fried tofu. Oh, God. But don't think about it too much. Hello, everyone. Sounds like that. Brett. Mashed potatoes. Abalone. Potatoes. What's that? Potatoes. Whipped cream. How can I curse you? How time grew. Chocolate. Chocolate mousse. Medicine.

[02:07]

Wow. That's serious. Fresh carrots. Baby carrots. Sweet potato pie. Carrots. Peaches. Parsnip. Avocados. Avocados. Avocados. Noodle soup. Bread. Pita bread with Parmesan cheese melted on top of avocados. That's incredible. Chicken. Rice and beans. Pizza. Sushi. Tea. Carrots. What did she say? Carrots. She said carrots. I can't make up my mind. Say a couple of things. Oh, it's endless. I love sweet. Cilantro. Definitely sushi. Definitely. Everything that everybody said. Cherries and oranges.

[03:11]

She's going to go around again. Peaches. Yeah, peaches are good. Mango. Cherries. Mangoes. Lard. Ginger. Raisins. That's my favorite thing. Dharma. Dharma. Okay, let us... Let [...] us return to the Tenzo Kyokun. I wanted us to... Actually, this was my idea for tonight's class. I thought... Remember the first class we read the whole thing through? And I thought, wouldn't it be interesting, the last class, to read the whole thing through again and see how it feels if there's something else that comes up. But before we do that, I wanted to look at page 37.

[04:15]

Oh, and I'm going to pass out the attendance. Lynn, do you have spelling by any chance? I think I do. Just this night? Yes. I think this is fair. I have a silly request. A silly question, yes. A silly request. A silly request. If you feel in the mood, at any point, could you do the Wicked Witch of the West again? I've heard about that twice today. Genius. For those of you who weren't at the class last night, the Wicked Witch of the West visited the Koan class. I didn't see the face, so that would be... That was the best part. I do an... imitation? No. Impersonation. Impersonation, right. Channeling, right.

[05:18]

Okay. Well, you know, if the causes and conditions are right, but I'm not sure they will be. I left it open. Yes, yes, yes. I'm not attached. Okay. You know, I found something very interesting in this book called Visions... Visions of Power, I think. It's by Bernard Four. It's about Zen and medieval times and different aspects of Zen. And he talked about the fly whisk, that in a heiji, I think, there's like a mural that shows arhats riding fly whisks like witches. You know, the fly whisk, the white horsehair whisk that you carry. So I thought that was a nice kind of a turn to be riding it, sort of like Harry Potter, actually. Yeah. Or the Wicked Witch. Or the Wicked Witch. Can you tell us what those whisks look similar? The whisk? Well, it's a fly whisk, you know,

[06:23]

so it's supposed to flick flies away without killing them, just... And... You know, it's... You receive it after Dharma transmission. It's one of the things you receive. And then it's carried at different ceremonies, precept ceremonies, which include weddings and any time the precepts are given, so weddings, ordinations. Yeah. Okay. Funerals. Funerals, yeah. I mean, did they start carrying them for ceremonies just to flick away flies? That I don't know, the origin of when, but I think they were... The hosu, hosu in Japanese is... You often read stories where there's something about the whisk. You know, he holds up the whisk. Usually he holds up the whisk. So I'm not sure the origin...

[07:23]

I think probably the earliest origin is flicking flies away from while you're sitting in meditation, right? Without hurting anything. And then it probably evolved into a symbol of... authority or being a teacher or something. Okay, so on page 36, I wanted to... look at... the middle of page 36 where it says, in the second paragraph on the left, do not comment on the quantity or make judgments about the quality of the ingredients you obtained from the director. Just sincerely prepare them. Definitely avoid emotional disputes about the quantity of the ingredients. All day and all night, things come to mind and the mind attends to them at one with them all. Diligently carry on the way.

[08:25]

And then on page 37, second paragraph... down a little bit. So even when you are making a broth of coarse greens, do not arouse an attitude of distaste or dismissal. Even when you are making a high-quality cream soup, do not arouse an attitude of rapture or dancing for joy. If you already have no attachments, how could you have any disgust? Therefore, although you may encounter inferior ingredients, do not be at all negligent. Although you may come across delicacies, be all the more diligent. Never alter your state of mind based on materials. People who change their mind according to ingredients or adjust their speech to the status of whoever they are talking to are not people of the way. So I just wanted to highlight that

[09:34]

and have us talk about that a bit. Do not comment on the quantity or make judgments about the quality and then treating each thing with the same mind of sincerity and not flying into rapture with the cream soup and dancing for joy with the high-quality ingredients and having disgust about the other ones. So I think this is something that... I just remember a story from when I was at Tassajar. I think... I don't remember which practice period it was, but we had been having, just for dinner we'd have gruel, you know, in the evening at Tassajar. The evening meal is a two-bowl meal. It's just a medicine meal. You're all familiar with that medicine meal? So let me go back a little bit.

[10:38]

In Buddha's time, they would have one meal a day, a great big meal before 12 noon. They would go on their rounds and then have a meal from their begging bowl. Then they wouldn't eat again until the following day. And this particular practice worked in hot countries where you know how it is when it's really, really hot. You don't really need as much food sometimes. Plus... Well, they were probably sitting in Zazen, Nostradamus and Samadhi, so they didn't need to eat any. But anyway, when these practices moved into colder countries, it didn't really make sense to have this rule about not eating afternoon because China gets very cold, Tibet is very cold, Korea, Japan, they all are very cold. So in those countries, there was a meal in the evening

[11:40]

called the medicine meal. It's just medicine, just to get you through the night. So it's a smaller meal. And at Tassara and here during Sashin, we don't offer the Buddha tray. So we have breakfast and lunch and there's the Buddha drum and the Buddha tray is offered. But for the evening meal, there's no offering. It's not seen as a meal. There's no chanting. I guess you haven't had, those of you who haven't done a Sashin here yet, don't know, but because one day cities, we end now before dinner. But when you have three meals a day, the third meal is just two bowls. It's usually leftovers. At Tassara, it's almost always leftovers in the big bowl and then a vegetable in the second bowl. Here, often the Tenzo will make, I don't know how you did it in the city, but often there'll be, it could be something fresh also in the Buddha bowl, like noodles or potatoes or something like that. But just two bowls. So it's seen as medicine

[12:41]

to get you through the night. So at Tassara, this one practice period, we had been having, just eating from the garden and it was squash and greens every night or gruel. I think it was gruel and squash or gruel and greens, gruel and squash and gruel and greens. And then one night, I heard that they burned the greens or there wasn't enough greens or something and we were having stewed apricots in the second bowl. These were apricots that we used to go in the summer and gather them around Fresno, bring them back to Tassara and dry them in the sun and then they'd be stewed up in the winter and they were just, oh. And not only, it wasn't even going to be in the small bowl, it was going to be in the middle bowl. And I remember saying, I was going around to people saying, did you hear? There's apricots and we're going to have apricots

[13:42]

in the second bowl, you know. Some people sort of said, okay, so what? And other people were like just about as excited as I was. And this is going into raptures and dancing for joy about the high quality of the ingredients. And it's, you know, I kind of got it somehow as I realized how excited I was about these apricots, you know. And it was much more than just a change of pace. It was like, it was a very emotional kind of thing. They were served and we got seconds. And the middle bowl, you know, the middle bowl, you know, the soup middle bowl can really carry a lot. And picture it filled with stewed apricots and then seconds. But it was way too sweet. I mean, yeah, it was really sweet. And kind of, it was really, it was too much really. So having this even mindedness,

[14:45]

you know, with whatever is offered, which is the practice, you know, we eat to support life and to practice the way of Buddha. This food is good medicine to sustain our life. You know what we say in the meal chant. And as a practice, working with that so that, you know, whether you like stewed apricots or don't like stewed apricots, it feels like medicine. And this isn't to say that we don't enjoy, you know, a feast or a treat. There's a chant we used to do at tea, which everybody used to stumble over. Let's see if I can do it. Now as I take food and drink, I vow with all sentient beings to share in the pleasure of Zen and to fully enjoy the Dharma. Something like that. But it had about the pleasure. It was about, you know,

[15:48]

to really enjoy and take pleasure. We say that every morning. You do that for breakfast? Well, we used to do it at tea time, just at tea time. And we don't, it's kind of gone into disuse here. We actually don't use it. So, and then this as a practice with food, you know, having this as a practice with food, watching the mind, studying the mind that leaps for joy when you see your favorite dish. And, you know, there were, you know, often when you're eating three meals of orioke most of the time except for day off, you know, some people, your preferences, this was all the food you were going to really get. I mean, there was backdoor food at higher boiled egg once in a while, but this was kind of it. And you, you know, sometimes you'd be serving and you'd hear people say, tofu, tofu. You know. And if, if you were serving, it is one's job as server

[16:50]

to stir the pot thoroughly, go from the bottom up so you're not just taking off the, you know, the broth. Other people say broth, broth. You know, you have preferences. You want, you need a little more broth, you need more protein, give it to me, you know. And then certain servers, you would just, oh no, not this server because they always, they didn't stir. You knew they didn't stir. And other ones, oh good, it's a good server that you would feel like you're at the best restaurant when you're really being served boiled egg, you know. So, and juice. Oh yeah, I remember with like stewed fruit, juice, juice. Anyway, so what is it like to sit there watching the ladle miss all the tofu and just get other things and can one be settled with that and at peace and accept that and let go of those tofus, you know. So these are very difficult practices.

[17:51]

You might say, well it sounds funny, but the story that Reb tells is about that too, right? Isn't that about the croutons? The croutons. For those of you who don't know it, I think that server just skimmed from the top and then the servers would get all the croutons later in the server's meal, right? And then afterwards, him coming out of the Zen Dojo and realizing, you know, he had come to study Zen and here he was, you know, upset and angry about croutons. And he had come this far to study the way and, you know, it had come down to this, you know. And I think, did he cry? Did he come out of the Zen Dojo crying? We didn't hear that part. He didn't tell you that? Well, I think he cried afterwards. But don't quote me. Maybe I did that. Yeah, this is a Reb story from Tassar. But anyway, just feeling, what does one feel?

[18:54]

Ashamed or something? To be that caught up with getting, you know, croutons or a piece of tofu. So I'm just wondering if anybody has been practicing that way or has anything they want to add to that, has been watching this kind of practice, both from the cooking side, you know, being really happy when you get good things to cook with or about the meals that have been served and how that's been going for you, for us all. Yes. I've been working in the kitchen once a month. And it's always a question of letting go and letting go, but this enormous bag of turnips appeared recently. And I don't have too many food prejudices, but turnips just don't do it for me. And I couldn't imagine how they could possibly be transformed into anything that I would like to eat.

[19:57]

And I was praying that I wouldn't have to cook them, and I was chopping them, and I was watching, you know, this whole little scenario going on in my mind and laughing at myself at the same time. And then the next day, I was sick, and a friend of mine brought me lunch, which was a turnip soup. Oh, no. But the soup turned out to be exquisite. It was absolutely delicious soup. I don't know how it was transformed. But the whole thing just was very amusing because I could see all my attachments, and then being sick and still have somebody bringing me a generous offering and still wanting to push it away in my mind and I accepted it. And when I was open enough to it, it was a gift. You know, that reminds me of this story about Mother Teresa. Maybe you've heard this story. Someone went as a volunteer when he was here to work in Calcutta with Mother Teresa, and he helped bring literally people who were dying from the streets,

[20:59]

carrying them to the house there. I can't remember the name of the house in Calcutta. And there was this one man that he helped, brought in, and he was practically dead, and they served him soup, you know, broth and spoonfuls, and then over time, oh, he was so grateful, this man. He had been literally picked up out of the dust heap, and he began to get his strength back, and in about four or five days, he was saying, you know, I don't like this soup. Do you have anything else? I think that is such a great story about human nature, you know. That reminds me of something that happened to me in the Zen Dojo the other day. I was serving tea. I was sitting, and I was doing the Floor Tan, and I had mint tea, and this woman said to me, is that mint tea? And I said, I don't like mint tea. Can I have something else? I just, I don't know. I just, I said,

[22:00]

I don't know. So I went outside, and I asked the head server, and she said, that's not the form she'll learn. Yeah. I went out to give, I went out to get the paper the other morning out in front of Zen Center, and we have homeless people that sleep on the doorstep, and when this one homeless guy was in jail, another guy took his place, and so I walked out, and I thought, oh, I'm going to give this guy some breakfast, you know. So I come back with a tray of stuff, and I put it down, and he doesn't say, you know, he doesn't say thank you, he doesn't say anything. Do you have some salt? Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot the salt. You know, and like, I have things to do, but okay, I go back and get the salt, so I bring it out, and he goes, can I have some milk? You know, and I'm just like,

[23:00]

okay, got it. You know? Did you go get a milk? Yeah. Did he eat it all? I don't know. I didn't wait around. Yeah. Michael, you were going to say something. Well, I, I do a little dance whenever the sesame soybeans come out, and I think I may be the only person in the entire practice period that does perhaps, but I just absolutely think that is the greatest thing in the world, and you know what, Linda, I don't mind that. I think it's the greatest thing in the world. It doesn't seem to really blow me too far off course, and I'm not like really trying to challenge the teaching or anything, but I'm fine with that. You mean rapture? Yeah. Rapture might be a little dramatic, but I mean like there are certain things, there are certain things in life that kind of get me to that place of like, wow, you know, and I don't see that that's really so wrong. I mean, I just don't see

[24:01]

that like, you know, our ups and our downs that we experience, not only in practice, but in life and everything, I don't see that there, that it's so bad if there are highs and lows that we have to squash them down so that there's this, you know, kind of a very small, small wave instead of maybe, you know, deeper troughs and higher crests. I agree. And maybe that's a radical saying. No, no. No, I don't, but how do you feel about never alter your state of mind based on materials, people who change their mind according to ingredients or adjust their speech to the status of whoever they're talking to are not people of the way. Do you feel like do you see any problem with, you know, adjusting your speech towards people, let's say, or, you know, like, I think this is a good point because it's not about squashing one's life into, you know, nothing bothers me, nothing, you know, it's so,

[25:01]

so what Michael's bringing up is, you know, if we don't dance for joy or aren't rapturous when we see our sesame soybeans, then what are we, you know? Then is it just... Yeah, and I don't think that's what it's saying, so go ahead. As far as the adjusting, I mean, I kind of see a link there, but I do, I do adjust my speech depending on who I'm talking to. For instance, if I, and I can only base my experience with my classroom, my students, I, I speak to them as adults, but I also can carry on a conversation with them in a manner that is different than a conversation I would have with you. It doesn't mean the quality isn't there. Ding, ding, ding. Did I get it right? So, what I heard you say is according to the person you're speaking with, you speak to them, very particularly to them, but the quality, which I would say is... My love is still there. ...kind speech, loving, speaking for the benefit

[26:04]

of that person, trying to keep, that all, that doesn't change, right? Ah, right. That's just, but according to the person, the skill and means is whoever you're talking with, you've got to meet, go where they're at, right? I think it's the same with the food. Oh, okay. So, go ahead. But what about this third patriarch? You know, the shin-shin-ming. About, um, no picking and choosing? Right. Like, isn't that what we're saying? No likes or dislikes? No? So, say a little bit more? I mean, I'm just sort of pressing you a little bit further because I have often felt, I mean, I think there's such a beauty in like saying I'm going to accept whatever is in front of me. And, you know, I'm watching shit fall out of a pipe this morning. Great. You know, and now I'm like standing at the Hope Cottage.

[27:05]

That's great too. But, but I still have likes and dislikes. I mean, you know, I mean, on the whole, I'd rather be at Hope Cottage than cleaning out the sewer. And are you altering your, um, that's true, you know, flowers fall with our, this is from what? Gendrocon. Gendrocon. Flowers fall with our sadness, right? It's not sadness, but anyway, whatever it is. And attachment flowers fall. And attachment flowers fall. And a virgin weeds grow. Right. But does that, does that change how you deal with the sewer or how you are at Hope in a fundamental way, like Michael said? That's the question. Well, yes, but I mean, but I'm not perfect. You know, I'd much rather be at Hope Cottage. I mean, the reality of it is, is that's how far away from it all I am, you know. So I just would rather

[28:06]

be at Hope Cottage, you know. But when you're doing your work, are you at the sewer or is your head at Hope Cottage? No, I'm at the sewer. Well, there you go. I think this is really an important point because I think there gets to be a misunderstanding about Zen that we're not supposed to have, we're not supposed to be human or something. And if we could just get calm enough and get it all in, you know, then nothing would bother us again. Now, earlier it said, where does it say here? If you already have no attachments, how could you have any disgust? So the only reason we have disgust is because there's attachments there, right? There, so, but it's not that we don't experience pain, that we can't be hurt, that we don't, you know, we aren't moved by the sunset and that things

[29:07]

really smell bad. I mean, it's, it's not there that we're trying to push those things down. It's more, can we just let go, can we not cling to it or let go of it, not be grasping at those things and believing, you know, there's this thing I came upon today or the other day, which is a koan where the monk and the teacher see this crow, two crows fighting over this frog and the teacher's watching it and the monk says something like, oh, how could it come to this? And the teacher said, it's all because of you. So it's, for the, it's, there is nothing out there, like turnips, for example, turnips are not inherently anything, you know,

[30:07]

turnips are, what, the significance you give to turnips is turnips for you and to somebody else it means their grandma or whatever. So, and so we love them or we dislike them according to our own worlds, according to the meaning that we place on them. So, so knowing that, see if I can even say this, knowing that we have this feeling of allowing or letting go because we know we created it, it's all because of us, like that, it's because of you that he looks at that frog and the crows and says, oh, how did it come to this? You know, from the crow's point of view this is lunch, you know, this is, this is great from the crow's point of view. From the frog's point of view he may be saying, I'm a bodhisattva and I give myself to these crows. We don't know what the frog's practice is.

[31:07]

So, but for us to say, oh, this is really terrible, that's, that's because of us. So, if we're very clear about that, that's the calm that I'm talking about, or that's the, if you have no attachments, how can there be any disgust? Then each thing has its, each thing has complete value, absolute complete value, each thing in and of itself and deserves your full respect, whether it's coarse greens or cream soup and your likes or dislikes does not change that, but often our likes and dislikes push us around so that we actually do treat, you know, the greens a little bit, ah, these old greens again, what a, you know, we don't treat them with full respect, right? Why? Because we don't like them

[32:09]

that much and we're bored of them and we're tired of them. So, how can we actually understand, you know, I'm really tired of these greens and treat them with sincerity, kindness, full attention? Do you see? Ooh, hands are coming up all over. I don't know who was first. Go. Oh, okay. Well, I was, your first question was where we saw this in our practice about fruit and I was reminded of, I think it was at my first Sashin here, first or second, and the, somewhere in the middle of the Sashin that some meal was being served and I saw this and the phrase from the meal chant had stayed with me about grief. It is essential to keep the mind free from a process such as grief and a pop of something came around and I, I saw myself get extremely anxious

[33:10]

that it should reach me and there should be enough of it and it should be very good and I should have time to have, I don't know, there was just some whole thing came up around this pop of whatever it was, I don't remember now and because it was Sashin and because of that chant, I, what I got to do was sit with grief. I got to see what this meant, this question that's being asked in a way that I was very concerned with also and still can be, it's like, I got to sit with a sense of grief for a couple of days and it started with the food but then I saw it was grief, like I was in, it was my first time here because I was in Wheelwright's Seat down there and I was grieved that you're sharing the bathroom only with one other or two other people unlike the guest house or something like where we are now and I was grieved that they were in that bathroom and I wasn't in it. It was like, I could see like, it was all about me, it was all about me. I had to have this food, I had to have this bathroom

[34:12]

and because it was the Sheena I didn't have to be kicked around by those feelings, I just could see them and so after a couple of days of that I felt like I didn't have to argue with this idea so much, like I got to see a glimpse of what it would be like, I don't know, a glimpse of why it would be nice not to be attached to having attachments. You know, like I kind of wanted to keep being attached. I mean, like I wanted to keep having desire. I mean, I didn't like the idea and I started to see that that wasn't what it was about, I guess. So I found that was like the food practice really opened something up for me there and I don't know if I'm expressing it very well, I've been sick all day but you know, I think that it's an incredible opportunity to just like watch all this stuff come up whether it's around turnips or, I mean, I prefer the greens to the cream soup so, but...

[35:13]

I felt you expressed that very beautifully. In the preface to this book, Ed Brown wrote the preface to the Dogen's Pure Standards and he mentions being at a Buddhism psychotherapy workshop and the teacher is saying, the therapist who was leading it was saying that cultures that have a lot of ritual around food do not have eating disorders which, or less of a problem with eating disorders the more ritual around food. So, I think we get a chance because the formal meals and all are so highly ritualized, you know, we get a real rare, really rare and unique chance to work with these kinds of things.

[36:13]

You know, the foods, I remember the foods sitting there and it was getting cold and we had to wait and they were so slow and then we had to chant and then the Buddha drum and then and there it went because I like really hot soup, right? So, this is suffering, you know, it's not that preferences are bad, it's just that they're suffering, you know, it's painful and then we when we don't get it the way we want then we treat other people poorly because they're standing in our way to get, you know, that's what the preferences and the attachments, we we will hurt people in order to get our preferences met, you know. So, hurt hurting self and others, yeah, I think it's both. So, there's lots of other hands here, Anna? I can't think right now. Okay, when it comes back hop

[37:14]

hop onto the bandwagon, yeah. Nicole on YouTube brought up something I've been thinking about lately which is I was wondering what if the monk had been watching something like a forest get clear cut or an oil tanker spill or something like that and how to address that as not being inherently bad or you know, not feel overwhelming distressed about it. Yeah. That was my question. Yeah. You know, there's this teaching that every single thing in the world there's a harmony, that there is actually harmony and then you know, as soon as you hear that you think but but but what about clear cutting and what about oil spills and what about what? Genocide. What about genocide

[38:14]

and homelessness and wait a minute, everything's in harmony? No, this can't possibly be. So you get the disjunction between what the teaching is and these terrible things and and then you can list, I mean, the list goes on forever, suicides and child abuse and you name it, you know, so so this teaching is not an excuse for not doing something about the world. They're not doing something about suffering or about what we feel strongly about. That's unjust or and I think that the teaching can be used as a excuse for not doing anything. It's all in harmony. It's for the best

[39:15]

or I suppose another tradition might say, well, it's God's will or there's some way you can use the teaching and we talked about this a little bit, pervert it to justify doing nothing or so Like when people say it's all good. Yes. Sorry. That just really annoys me. That's a common expression amongst young people today. What do they say? It's all good. Is that because they've taken ecstasy or something? That's cool. That's okay. It's cool? Yeah. But I mean, they mean it It's all good. Whatever. Yeah. Well, you know, in some, you could say that the teaching says that it is all good and because it's if you you know, when we talked about emptiness, whatever class that was when we were talking about the emptiness of

[40:16]

so you can take a situation like anything and you can analyze it into its parts and you can see that it doesn't actually it doesn't exist in the way we think it exists but conventionally speaking it does exist that way meaning that force is being clear cut even though there really is no force there you know so you've got the emptiness absolute teaching and the relative or the conventional so we so to act as if the conventional doesn't exist is is just trouble you know and is being caught in emptiness in some way Leslie has just come in the room Hi Leslie Hi Better late than never Yes

[41:17]

Can I address what you just said for a second? Yes My feeling on it is kind of like the reason for my own personal understanding of this is that it helps you to I forgot what I was reading but there was something recent one of the things I was reading is I think or maybe it was even something Rep said but it was basically that if you are able to have a clear mind about everything including you know being in the face of things like major environmental trauma or whatever I think if you can you know watch your judgments arise and refrain from getting caught up in them so that you sort of I think that can cripple you basically but if you are able to be clear about it not get caught up in your judgments you can see them and accept them and still work towards them your value system but at the same time

[42:19]

not get caught up into them in a way that cripples your ability to act so I think like for example if you look at the state of American politics today and if you feel that you know if it challenges you considerably about how overwhelming it is that you know all these wrong things are happening or ridiculous or stupid things are happening if you get caught up in those values then I think that that can send you into an apathetic state or it can send you into like just a self-crippling state and kind of depress you you know like why am I living in this country it's horrible I can't do anything because I'm powerless you know but if you if you can see that in sort of a valueless way or or at least see your own judgments and how they're affecting your actions and kind of put separate yourself from them a little bit you know and stand back then I think you're able to

[43:19]

maybe better act or face what you want you know or do what you want to do The Dalai Lama when asked why are you angry at the Chinese for what they're doing to Tibet he said I can't be angry at the Chinese because then they would be controlling how I want to feel Going back to the food the food here has been so wonderful the whole time I can't really suggest anything that I ever disliked it was so good sometimes I wish I was a little more challenged in maybe not liking some of the food maybe that would be something to look at you know so but I think it's I think it's like liking or disliking or feeling neutral

[44:21]

about food I guess I want to hear is there a food that someone really dislikes yeah all the custards with the eggs in it that we have disgusting we're like we're supposed to have vegan options of those that they eat during like we have one and a half days and there's always dairy and like chickens I'm not attached though there's chickens in apples did that answer your question yeah I mean it's just it is such a good it is such a good analogy for everything in in a large scale like a lot of what other people have been talking about too is sort of like you know how is it how is it you know if you dislike something or like something or just feel sort of neutral about something when you're eating how is that similar to you know what type of work you're doing whether or not you're at Hope Cottage or something like that and I mean sometimes I think it's almost like if something tastes

[45:21]

really strange it's almost it's almost like well it tastes so strange it's sort of interesting in a way and is that is that but then that's kind of like that's sort of a judgment too it's like well now I'm having this interesting experience it's interesting as I was saying before it's not that we don't enjoy our food it's that we don't it's that we we don't try to hold like if you're enjoying some delicious thing it's like having your cake and eating it too right I never understood what that meant as a kid of course you can have your cake and you can eat it too I didn't understand but meaning have it there on the plate to look at it and there's the enjoyment of ooh the anticipation of getting to have it and all that you can't have that and eat it too right so so the you can enjoy your food but it's then are you sad when it's gone or that you didn't get seconds or that and then you're depressed or are you being and I

[46:23]

sort of wanted to bring that up because I feel like it's a different thing my body says you shouldn't eat that yes so for you that medicine you need other kinds of medicine that is not medicine for you one what is it one man's one man's poison yeah so each person has those kinds of things some people can't digest raw raw things or what garlic garlic or rice or the can't have any wheat you know so that's that's just individual constitutions and bodies yeah I mean we eat to benefit you know we eat so that we can practice right and if you eat so that you feel sick then you're not going to have the energy energy and stamina to to practice hard right so so there's

[47:24]

that but then on top of that there's often an overlay of other choices that people make for other reasons not necessarily their body doesn't do well with certain foods it's it's a statement about it's a certain other kind of vow that people take about their food choices and does that throw you around you know or is that can that be let go of how strict is that and then there's I'm more pure than you thing that can happen you know so there's that danger of the precept of praising self at the expense of others you know I don't eat yada ya you know which then all of a sudden that goes like that it's not just I don't eat yada ya it's right and you want to make sure people know because then you can Yeah

[48:51]

knowing I'm letting them know you know it's like Suzuki Yoshi cleaning the toilets and that story you all know that story Suzuki Yoshi cleaning the toilets and at the school I told you it right yeah yeah I have been I've been thinking on and off for a while and it's basically for ethical reasons. It's not because I want to be above anybody or anything, but I made that choice and I really have had a hard time just accepting what's offered and then also dealing with the fallacy of all beings because of what they do. I think I'm going to, although I'd love to give a sermon right now, but I'm not going to. I don't know if you can speak to that or not because it's really painful and it's really hard for me not to see the side of all this pain and misery when I eat this and I just

[49:58]

don't want to eat it. I just can't do it. That's disgust. So, can you say anything? So, this ethical choice and this vow, do you find joy in the ethical choice? I mean, is there joy? When I observe it, I find great joy. Okay. And do you... So, is it when you even think about, it's like thinking about clear-cut forest or something, you just have to think about it and you begin to feel upset and angry and disgust? I've mellowed out a lot, so it's not that bad. Simple things. When you think about it, when you begin to think about the egg production thing or the

[51:06]

egg itself, an egg or... Maybe consuming it more. You mean putting it into your mouth? Yeah, I guess up here. So, it's not like you're thinking about the industry of that kind of farming. That's not what makes you disgust? It's actually the food item itself? No, no. It's the industry and then my... I think it goes into... I have a lot of suffering and ideas about it. I go into like, well, now I'm weak because I won't eat this or I don't know. It's so confused. But definitely, the disgust is aimed towards the whole organization. And I feel like the reason why I'm disgusted with the idea of me eating it is because the idea that I know what's behind it and that I'm still going to just eat it

[52:06]

for whatever reason. Does that make sense? It sounded like the disgust kind of came down to disgust with yourself there right at the end for not following through. For not what? Not standing up for what I believe. Just being a part of something that I have so much... I don't like the word disgust. I don't think I want to use it anymore. But I have a lot of problems with the whole... And I don't want to take up all this time. No, that's okay. I think it's useful. Isn't it useful to kind of get into this? Okay. I have a lot of problems with the industry, the factory farming industry. Yes. So I'm totally like... But then when you find you've made this vow and you feel completely behind it and then you find there's these situations where you want to eat the cake even though you know it's God or something like that.

[53:10]

And then you're in this spiritual and ethical conflict inside and outside because you want it and you don't want it and everybody else is enjoying it and you want to join the party and you don't want to be feeling left out. But then I've told these people that and then they're going to say, well, how come you're eating that? Right? Sort of the whole thing... I do. And also I just want to eat what's offered, you know? Right. It's not just like... Yeah. Well, this is... You know, if you pick up anything, you pick up one thing and worlds come along with it. If you pick up anything, you have to contend with all that. I don't feel like there's necessarily a way out. It's more like this is what it looks like. This is what it looks like to make any choice like that.

[54:10]

You come up with... It's not once and for all done, free, clean, I did it. There's complications. And if there's emotion around it and stuff, there will be complications. So in some ways, these admonitions, to eat what's offered, that's it. You just eat what's offered. I remember having a very strong experience about the third cookie. Do you know about the third cookie? Well, a couple of things. It's about being served the plate of cookies. And I can't remember what the third cookie story was. It was Lou Richmond. Who will take the third cookie? I can't remember that. I won't tell that story. But the story is to take the cookie closest to you. Do you know that story? It's just a practice that... I can't remember who told me, but when the plate of cookies comes around, usually it would come around and, ooh, that one's got more nuts. Ooh, that one looks like it's got...

[55:11]

I'll take that one. And that whole thing is just so painful, you know. They took it. They took the one with the biggest piece of chocolate on the top. You know, as we'd have tea and the plate could be passed from one to the other, you know, bow, pass the tray, bow. And then this practice of just take the cookie that's closest to you. And it was like I was freed. It was like an enlightenment experience, you know. I could just... It didn't matter who took it. It was just like the tray came, and the one for me was the one closest, and that was mine. Pass it. I was just free. Do you get the feeling? Well, I remember you telling that story. Yes. And so now when the cookies come to me, I think about what you said, and I still choose the one with the biggest piece of chocolate. But it is a different way of approaching, and maybe someday I will be able to just take the one closest to me.

[56:13]

But it's a whole different way of approaching. It is a different way of approaching. Our usual way is by our likes and our dislikes, right? Keeping away from things we don't like and going after the things we do like. And it goes like from one moment to the other. It kind of goes back and forth, back and forth. Sometimes within one instant it feels like it's a yes-no, you know. So it's not that you don't take a cookie. How are you going to take that cookie so that it's... that you're completely with everybody and joined and free, you know, liberated on that moment with the cookie? Yes. It reminded me that at work, I work as a nurse, and you'd be in report, and you'd hear about all the patients,

[57:16]

and then you'd get your assignment. And, you know, you couldn't help but sometimes think, oh, oh, God, you know, oh, geez. You could just see what was going to unfold, you know. And it was really a hard practice, actually, to just listen and then just take what's given to you and just go in and just try to meet that person without trying to think about what everyone else had said, you know, because you don't really know what's going to happen when you go in and meet that person. Yes. And usually my experience was it was totally different than what the person had said, you know. But that idea of, like, picking and choosing, I mean, for me it does come up quite a bit in different situations. Yes. It's like how do you pick and choose with no hand, you know, with no... What is the no picking and choosing of picking and choosing? Because we have to pick and choose. What are we going to put on when we get up in the morning?

[58:17]

And even to wear nothing is a choice. You cannot get out of it. That's... So when they say just avoid picking and choosing, what does that mean, you know? Matt? I was... Yesterday I thought, well, I don't think that would be very freeing, like just taking a quickie close to you and that way you don't really have to think about it, you just do whatever. Then what comes to mind for me would be, like, say at the farm, if you didn't mind, if you just did whatever job, then what comes in for me is, oh, then they'll make me do it every time. Then they'll, like, then they'll take advantage of the fact that I'm doing this, and so I better not do that all the time. Maybe it'll just show that I'm not going to... You know, that's what... And I'm happy to do it as long as it didn't get out of balance. So I went down... Can I say something? Go ahead. So I went down to Tassajara for a work period, and over a period of a couple of years

[59:21]

we had saved, you know, done work, extensive work on some cabins, and then I was going to go down last spring, and I guess I went down last spring and I did one, and then I went down in the fall, and I was going to do another one. And it requires crawling under these cabins, right? So the first time I did it, I said, I'm never doing that again. I'm going to go down in the fall, and I'll train people to do this, and I will carry a clipboard. And so I got down there, and there was not one trained carpenter that could work with me. So I ended up under the house again. And I'm laying under there just getting pissed off, and I was walking by Galen one day, and she knew I was grumpy and everything,

[60:25]

and she goes, Judith, life is perfect in this moment. And I just went, boing! And so I was still a little grumpy until I got under the house, under this cabin, and I started to laugh because I said, well, you know, actually, you don't mind doing this. I don't mind getting dirty. And the thing in my head was, I'm too old to be doing this, and somebody else should be doing this. And so I'm under there going, well, who else should be doing this? And I actually don't mind doing it. In fact, I sort of enjoy it. And it's like you on the turn of soup. It's like this whole, I just create my own suffering by saying that I don't like this. My whole time at Zen Center,

[61:27]

I was so picky as an eater. I just picked, you know, it had to be certain things. I would not eat sesame soybeans for four years. Finally, one morning, I was cooking at Tassajara, and Robert was the Tenzo, and I was cooking sesame soybeans, and he said, I said, Robert, would you try these before we send them up? And he goes, you're the cook. You try them. I said, no, I don't eat these things. And so I ate them, and I loved them. Well, Matt, that story that you just told, so it's not that you didn't enjoy doing the work, right? But it sounded like there was a whole world on top of it about protecting the future Matt from being taken advantage of.

[62:28]

Yes? Something like that. Yeah, so that's... I mean, yeah, I mean, I was trying to do it on my own as a practice. But can I be fine doing it when, oh, there's... It's like, don't mistake my kindness for blindness. Kind of a statement, I don't know if that's a song, or someone said that. I always thought that was great, you know. People, like, yeah. Well... You know, we have these worldviews, you know, that are internalized, like, the one that came up for me is I've got to be a manly man, and they're not going to take advantage of me, you know, something like that. And I don't know, it's like, is that extra? You know, is that, right? There was a hand over here, yes? I just, I have been so...

[63:31]

I mean, ever since I, well, just my time here at Zen Center, I've been so aware of how if I feel like I'm not going to get what I want, like, I suddenly become like a raving lunatic. I mean, and somehow that prevents me, what I've really noticed is that I could just ask for what I want, but somehow that doesn't seem enough. Like, I, like, have to call up the army. I mean, the army of my, like, and I'm going to battle now, you know? And this is a fight, and, you know, someone's going to get hurt, you know? You know what I'm saying? And meanwhile, you haven't mentioned to anybody that you really like to be such and such a... Yeah, or maybe, could I just have that? It's so weird. I have to. Especially volleyball. When Gwen told her story about the hospital, it reminded me of the other place

[64:34]

that I see this arising in a very easy, simple way all the time, is when you get in the circle for soju. Oh, yeah. Oh, I hope I get this. I hope I don't get that. Oh, I'd really like to set up a dining room. I don't want to do bathrooms again. I did bathrooms all last week. You know, I like that. And it just seems like another occasion to see this preference thing arise in a way that doesn't really matter very much. So you get to just see it and not have to call in the army, whereas in other places, maybe the army comes. Yeah. Once you're involved in what you were dreading, it's really okay. Yeah. It's just all the buildup beforehand, you know. You know, I learned as a kid that if you dreaded something, it was always much less worse then, so I used to kind of practice dreading. That was one of my things, to dread. And then it would always be better. That's an interesting story. Yeah. Catherine, and then Anna. My head wasn't up.

[65:36]

I was stretching. Oh, you were stretching. Okay. This is kind of off the subject. Really? I don't believe you. And then you said about being a manly man. Yes. I experienced wanting to be protective of myself as well, and I don't want to be a manly man. What do you want to be? Safe, I guess. Safe, yeah. Well, that's another one. But isn't that what a manly man is doing? Trying to make themselves safe. It's armor. Armor, maybe so, maybe so. Just pointing out we have these internalized systems, and if somebody says that, oh, that means that, when actually we haven't even found out what it meant. Or we can also say, you know, I'd love to do this, I love doing this, but let's not make it an every week thing. You could say that, right? But instead we strategize or to protect ourselves. So this, it takes being very close to what's going on with us

[66:39]

to know, oh, there's that one coming up, you know, that I can actually talk about with somebody. Do you know what I mean? No. So the safe thing might be... you might be strategizing in order to protect yourself or be safe. And, of course, we want to live in the world happy and safe. May all beings be safe. May all beings be, right? So that's fine. But is it extra? Is there need for that? Is it... Is there a threat there? Is it safety at the expense of being open to somebody? You know, like that, I think. And do you even know you're doing it? And do you even know that it's about safety? You don't know it's about them, they're being too aggressive.

[67:40]

Well, it's really about you trying to protect yourself. They're just being exuberant, maybe, like that. Is that quarter to? I guess we're not going to read this out loud, are we? I don't think we have time. Go on. Every morning in the meal chant, we chant, we reflect on the effort that brought us this food. And I often forget to reflect over that. But I think working on the farm, you know, it's sort of closer to you in that way. You really see all the organisms that work together, you know, creating this food for us. And for me, that's been really helpful. You know, not being picky or juicy about food, and just, you know, really being like, wow, that's great, you know? Having gratitude. All these plants, you know, that sort of work this out and do this. Yes. Let's eat it. Yeah. Well, this has been a great discussion, you know, particularly for someone who's about to become Kenzo. Yeah. Just thinking all about preferences.

[68:42]

Tonight I was at dinner, and we had a really great dinner. And I didn't have anything to do with it, really. What was I doing? I was making breakfast for tomorrow morning. So this is totally objective. But I sat down with, like, ten people, and I looked around, and everybody had a different kind of spice on their food. You know, one person had put nutritional yeast on this, and somebody had galachio on that, and hot sauce and chili peppers. And it was really amazing. And nobody had tasted the food yet, you know, before they had done all this. And it just kind of drove me a little crazy, you know? And I said something to somebody, and they said, well, the problem is all the spices are over there. You know, they're in where you get your food, and then you come into the dining room. So you can't, like, kind of sit down and taste it and then go back. So people just sort of do it, you know, in advance, you know, just in case it doesn't have enough spice or something like that.

[69:44]

I don't know. I've just had, like, a thousand stories come up in my mind, just clots of things. But one thing happened this morning that was kind of funny. The last two days in the kitchen, I was given the job of doing the salad. And so this morning, the food attendant was handing out the jobs, and she gave someone the soup. And I thought, like, oh, here we go again. I'm going to get the salad. It's okay. I'll do whatever she asks me to do. She looks at me, and she goes, Jim, are you sick of doing the salad? And I, you know, oh, gosh. I said, yeah, I am, but I'm happy to do it. And she gave me another job. It was kind of funny. When I had said, you know, I'm just ready to take what's offered, then she gave me a choice to do the salad. Oh, and the last thing was just about one time during sashimi, I made a decision to not use gomasio.

[70:46]

You know, and it's like such a, especially a tasahara, where it's the only spice that you have. You know, and I was really kind of nervous for a little while about how I was going to get through the sashimi without gomasio, especially in the cereal, which is really attached to that. And by the end, I just really loved the flavor of the cereal. You know, I realized that you can't, when you put gomasio in, you can't really taste the cereal. You taste the sesame and the salt. But as soon as the sashimi was over, I went back to pouring the gomasio back. You know, it's just, there was something, maybe it's the salt or whatever, this kind of addictive thing. But yeah, it's just so interesting to watch, you know, and to put yourself in a position where you can actually see your preferences coming up, which you don't in the world. Just like somebody was saying about how it is here at Green Gulch, all these things happen. Well, they're happening all the time, it's just we don't see them because there's so much else going on.

[71:48]

But when you narrow down your choices and the background is moving around so much, then we get to see our own stories and what we create. That gomasio story reminds me of one of the shusos, I won't say which, at a practice period. I guess they were seeing how much gomasio I put on my cereal, and they said, well, you're putting so much gomasio on, it's like just dumping ashes on top, you know, because all you can taste is gomasio. And I realized, I don't have to say exactly what it was, there was something I realized about what I was doing with that gomasio and that cereal, what I was attempting to do, which was... change my state of mind or something. I wanted to...

[72:50]

On page 44, if you will... It says... In the second paragraph, arouse, as for the attitude while preparing food, the essential point... This second column, I mean, left-hand column, second. Paragraph, is deeply to arouse genuine mind and respectful mind without making judgments about the ingredients, about the ingredients' fineness or coarseness. So this is... He says this in various parts. He keeps coming back to this about the mind, arouse genuine mind and respectful mind without making judgments about the ingredients' fineness or coarseness. So this is like the stepping back and treating each thing as Buddha, right? And then... At the bottom of that paragraph, it's talking about gifts,

[73:53]

and I was just thinking about this season of gift-giving, and it... It describes this offering to the Buddha of one bowl of white water left from rinsing the rice, and an old woman... These are stories you can find in the sutras. An old woman attained wondrous merit during her life, and then, by offering just water, the water that the rice was cooked in, and King Ashoka could generate his final great act of charity and thereby receive the prediction of Buddhahood and enjoy the great result by giving this half a mango. Although they create relationship to Buddha, donations that are abundant but lacking in heart are not as good as those that are small but sincere. This is the practice of a true person. So I just wanted to say something about giving and gifts, because we have in the meal chat also about the turning of the three wheels,

[74:56]

the emptiness of the three wheels, giver, receiver, and gift, and the importance of the mind of the giver, and it not mattering so much what the actual material thing is, but the feeling behind it, the... I mean, we know this, right? This is like a Hallmark card or something. But there are practices whereby you can give gifts, the most wonderful gifts you can give to the Buddhas and the Bodhisattvas, you can give them in your mind. This is in Shantideva's Guide to a Bodhisattva's Way of Life, and there's a whole section about... It's almost a visualization where he imagines giving the most fabulous and wonderful things to all the Buddhas and all the Bodhisattvas, jeweled parasols and canopies of the most wonderful cloths

[76:03]

and fragrant baths and foods of the most wonderful, and just whatever you can possibly think of, I give these all to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas in my mind. Why the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas? Well, because the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are worthy, have given their life over for the benefit of the world, so they don't need these things, of course, but it's as a devotional practice to give and pay homage and adore, and with gratitude you give these gifts to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who are living in the world for the benefit of others, like that, as a practice. But anyway, I always found this rather... I don't know about intriguing, but just... Because we often think, oh, I don't have anything much to give, sometimes if we have low-end funds and so forth, but it really is the attitude that's necessary,

[77:09]

and without the attitude, I mean, you all may know of stories like someone told me about this kid who came into this room for Christmas, Christmas morning, and there was a pile of gifts that were so huge that they got sick to their stomach, actually. It was an adult talking about their childhood. They would walk in, and all those presents had to do with the fact that their parents were split up, and they were trying to make it okay, and they would just get sick, and have to open them all, and try to... So anyway, we know about what is supposed to be a gift, and what isn't really a gift, and what it feels like, and to know that it's the mind of the giver that's the important thing. So the gifts are... If there's another translation of this...

[78:10]

Oh, no, this is the same translation. Even if you might give... Donors might give something like food to the monastery or something, and there would be some karmic connection with the sangha, or Buddhadharma and sangha, but if they're lacking in heart, that's where the important point is. Abundant but lacking in heart is less important than sincere heart and small. It's like the gift of the Magi. Say that again? Like the gift of the Magi... And the littlest angel. And the littlest angel. I'm not sure I know those stories. The gift of the Magi are frankincense and myrrh? Oh, Henry? You all know that story. And the Velveteen Rabbit. Do everybody know these stories? The gift of the Magi was she cut her hair to buy the chain for his watch,

[79:10]

and he sold his watch to buy combs for her hair. You know that story? Oh, Henry? Henry? You know where it's a great place for gifts and things and giving and whatever it is, Tassajara? Because you're down there, and somebody's birthday will come up, and it's just extraordinary. All the little things that sort of appear. Yeah, rocks and leaves. Yeah. And the last three minutes of the class, I hoped we could talk about this a little bit more too, but this is on page 46. On the left-hand side, middle of that paragraph, it talks about the three essential attitudes of an abbot. It says the temple administrators, the heads of the monastic departments,

[80:12]

meaning senior staff positions, Tenzo included, should have the three essential attitudes of an abbot whenever they perform their jobs. And the three essential attitudes are to benefit others, which simultaneously gives abundant benefit to the self. So it's not a, oh, don't worry about me, I'll do it all for you. I'll go sit in the dark. It's not that. The separation of self and other is not so operative. When we give for others, we receive more. The giver is the one who benefits. So benefit, where is it? Give abundant benefit to others, which simultaneously gives abundant benefit to the self, and then make the monastery thrive and renew its high standards and aspire to stand shoulder to shoulder

[81:13]

and respectfully follow in the heels of our predecessors. And those three essential attitudes, they also talk about the three minds of the abbot or the abbess, the San-Shin, three minds, San-Shin, which are Dai-Shin, big mind, magnanimous mind, and other translations of that are big, great, magnanimous, and big. And that's Dai-Shin. And then Ro-Shin is what's sometimes translated as parental mind, which in English sounds too authoritarian or something, parental, but it's the mind of the caring attitude of a parent. That mind is Ro-Shin. It's also kind mind, elder's mind, I think of grandmotherly mind or something, or nurturing mind, that's Ro-Shin. And then Ki-Shin is joyful, and all the translations are joy and joyful.

[82:13]

So these are the three minds, Ki-Shin, joyful, Ro-Shin, nurturing, kind, the attitude of a caring parent, and Dai-Shin, big, magnanimous. And those are the three minds for also temple administrators, all the temple administrators, and the Tenzo in particular. This doesn't, I couldn't find, there must be other treatises about the abbot's job because it's not in there, the abbess or the abbot's job, but these three minds seem to be really important. Is it the same Dai-Shin as the Dai-Shin Dharani? Dai-Hi-Shin, great, let's see, great compassion, yeah, that Dai is big for compassion, Dai-Hi-Shin. Oh, there's an extra syllable, it's not exact. Yeah, it's Dai-Hi-Shin Dharani. We have chanted the Dharani of great compassion, the Dharani of great compassion.

[83:16]

So this is just Dai-Shin, big mind or heart mind. Shin is heart mind. Okay, well, I think we should stop there. Thank you all very much. I really enjoyed working on this with you all. In fact, so much that I felt like there was so much there that didn't get touched on, actually, the turning the light back and just so many things that I'm considering teaching it again for next practice period just to get into it more thoroughly. So I don't know if people would take it again, would sign up for it again, but I just feel like we haven't plumbed the depths. There's just so much there, and I didn't want to leave it too soon. Thank you. Do you want me to set it up like an audio?

[84:20]

This was tonight. Yeah, it worked out that way. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. May I? May I? Thank you.

[84:31]

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