This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Welcome to City Center, to Beginner's Mind Temple. And as I understand it, most people on Wednesday nights tend to be returners. So, welcome back. Are there... Any people who happen to be new this evening? Never been here? Welcome. Welcome, welcome. So, my name is Erin Merck, and I'm a resident priest here in the temple, sort of. I work outside as a high school teacher, and so my participation in the formal practice is pretty limited, and especially this past year, it's been kind of really sad for me and Difficult that I haven't been able to dive in very much at all to the formal practice.

[01:05]

So it feels really good to be in the Buddha Hall. And I just want to thank David down in here. Right in the middle of my gratitude. I want to thank David so much for inviting me. to speak to you. He's the head of practice here at City Center. Just arranges the talks and other things. It does feel like it's going to fall off. Okay. Let's see here. Okay, so tonight it was a little bit difficult actually for me to choose a topic I few of them swirling about. But I decided I would choose the topic of learning, which is very, very close to me at all times, being a high school teacher, but also being someone who I love being a student, which I think is probably why I chose to go into teaching, just so that I could actually spend all of my days in a school environment, in a learning environment.

[02:22]

So I was always around this time of year I'm thinking about, gosh, what is this year going to be like? What kinds of mistakes did I make as a teacher last year and how can I do some of the same things that I do every year but differently to make sure that even more people have a chance to learn something or get something out of the experience or just even meet people. So I was curious to take this turning of teaching and learning from my teaching life outside of here and think about it in terms of practice, of Zen practice. And also being August 9th, I think it's officially back to school season. And maybe some of you, are some of you students? Anybody a student here? Maybe not. Yay, students. Excellent. Okay. Anybody else a teacher?

[03:24]

Ooh, teachers, okay. How about, there might be people, this is also kind of the back to school season for us here at Zen Center, at least I feel that way. Is there anybody that might be launching off to a different practice container soon, like Tassajara, or somewhere else, or the marketplace, or, yeah. So anyhow, I think it's a good time to pause, and consider this past year of learning and kind of take stock of what feels alive and flowing and energetic right now in practice and learning. And maybe places where we are, we're feeling stuck, held back, probably even familiar, you know, things that feel familiar, stuck places that feel. like old friends, and how can we work with those with renewed vigor in the next year?

[04:30]

So that was my idea for the context tonight. And I hope that wherever you are as a learner or student or in relationship to learning that you find some little glimmer of something to work with in your practice. And to be honest, I'm not totally sure if all of the things I've been turning around have come together into anything comprehensible. So we'll see what happens. So grab what you can while you can. All right. Okay. So probably, obviously, since the topic of learning in this case is about Zen practice, about Buddhist practice, in thinking about what is it that we're learning, which is a question that I always ask as a teacher.

[05:35]

It's kind of like, all right, I'm creating this class or this unit of a class or this one-day lesson. What is it I think, what is it that I really want my students to get out of this or to learn? what do I have to do to make sure or to create a context where they can learn? And actually, what is it going to look like if they do learn this thing? What will that look like? And how will I be able to tell? So if we apply all of this, if we kind of think this way about our Buddhist practice, what is it that we're doing here? What is it that we're actually trying to learn? And I think... Here in this Zen center, which is from a tradition of Buddhist practice that we call Mahayana, or great vehicle tradition, there are a few main learning objectives, I'd say, that we have.

[06:41]

We might not actually remember them all the time, so I'll talk about that. But probably at some point in deciding to come into this room, into residential practice or read a book about it, whatever it is, we probably were drawn to one or all of these different objectives. Is this sound working? Okay, okay, sounds very strange to me. Okay. So, objective one, we might call, if we're being fancy, we might call enlightenment, right? So, Other words, especially that we use here, might be waking up. Waking up to things as it is. As our founder, the founder of this temple, Suzuki Roshi, is very famous. He's probably sorry he said it. But anyway, he's very famous for saying that phrase.

[07:41]

Just getting to know things as it is. And then also... you might hear it called prajna, which I'm going to talk about a little bit, which is the Sanskrit word for wisdom. And literally means, the little nya part of it means knowledge, and the prah means kind of like big or exaggerated or even more knowledge. So in English it's usually called prajna. So that's one... maybe one, I don't even want to use the word goal, but one kind of piece that we're drawn to. Maybe this, what is this waking up thing? And how does this relate to my life? And maybe the reason why my life just doesn't feel quite aligned has something to do with not being awake or being asleep in some way. And how can I join in?

[08:44]

to this practice of studying waking up. As I mentioned, because we are Mahayana tradition, we also have another really important kind of vow that we make that's called the Bodhisattva vow, and we're actually going to all chant the Bodhisattva vow together at the end of this talk. And that has to do with, you know, even if I really don't wake up completely, an unsurpassed, penetrating, and perfect wisdom waking up, I want my life to be an expression. And I vow to let my life and my body, mind, and my energy be an expression in be a help for everyone else that I encounter to wake up.

[09:46]

So this has to do with, it's not just that I want to understand reality, the way things really are, just for myself so that I can experience this freedom. But even if I don't quite get there, even if my wisdom is not fully understood, penetrated, I still want to try. And I want this trying that I'm doing, this living, in this way to help everyone around me so that they might be able to wake up. So big objectives on our syllabus here at Zen Center. And maybe that those ideals... could be on just every syllabus that we have for every class or every experience or everything that we walk into. And really, I was thinking about that. Yeah, what if we posted the sort of learning goals everywhere?

[10:50]

Because I do that for myself with teaching, just to remind myself, what is it that I think I'm doing with this experience and how's this going? But what I realize is that we do, it is posted everywhere. So you go into the kitchen, you see it, you see words or images. You come in here, you see words and images that remind us all of what we're doing here. Walk to the Zendo and you see the big ha and the wooden plaque that calls us to the Zendo that says, wake up. So we actually do have it posted everywhere, which is helpful. And one more point that I think is really important to consider about what it is that we're doing here what it is that we're trying to learn is that sometimes we might think about learning or we might have even experienced learning depending on what kind of school we found ourselves in or schools.

[11:51]

I think I went to 13 schools, so I had a lot of different learning experiences as a child. But sometimes we might think or our teachers might treat us as if, okay, I have this thing. that I'm going to pour into you because you're just a lovely empty vessel, right? But that's not what we're really working with here in terms of Buddhist practice. Instead, the idea is that each one of us is already awake. We already have these sometimes called seeds of awakening or seeds of wisdom. And We have other seeds too, so that's the thing. That we don't always realize that we have this awakening quality. And we haven't necessarily been nurtured in that way to realize that we are awake, that we can be awake, that we can be in alignment with things as it is.

[12:54]

But it's there. It's not something that somebody can pour into us. Instead, maybe the people around us with their bodhisattva vow can instead pour into us a reminder, encouragement of who we actually are or help, you know, be a mirror. But just to say, it's not something that you're trying to get that's not already you. It's you trying to see you and be you. So I find that a really beautiful thing to remember and, you know, even in my teaching outside of here where I'm not specifically, you know, the goal isn't really prashnia exactly. Maybe it is. It's still helpful to think what's in there already in that person that just needs to be nurtured so that it's not me sticking something on somebody else. So with these really...

[13:55]

big learning objectives and maybe we can just pause for a moment and, you know, we have this idea of prajnia, of awakening, however, whatever words speak to you or whatever words you tend to use for wisdom or a thing that's going on here, we hope. And then the idea that that's already you, that you're already awake, that we're all already awake. And the idea that Our life and our movements through the world and our actions actually are helping others wake up. And that's what our life could be and can be and maybe is. That just by being us and being this awakening being, we can help other people wake up. So just for a moment, maybe we can think and maybe feel a little bit where... Where is all of this right now in our practice?

[14:57]

How is that going? Where in ourselves, in the body, a thought that comes up, where do we feel the most momentum in life and kind of flowing action? And maybe where... Are there places where we feel some tightness or stuckness or some kind of not awake teaching that's still lodged in there that kind of grabs us and drags us around? And so what I'm really interested in for myself is giving some space to maybe both of those qualities.

[16:03]

And that's kind of a simple way to look at it, just what's flowing, what's alive, and what's stuck. And you could probably complicate this a little bit more for yourself if you wanted to. Maybe that's helpful in terms of launching into just thinking about learning maybe more more specifically. So in exploring the idea of learning in Buddhism and learning in Buddhist practice, I read a lot of texts and just tried to explore different aspects of learning. And one, I kind of remembered, and it was So I ended up, I remembered this teaching that I heard from my teacher, Linda Ruth Cutts, but it was difficult for me to actually track it down to any kind of original source.

[17:04]

Although, I think I got closer by the end of, you know, yesterday. Maybe day before yesterday, I find it. But this teaching, you might have heard it before, and I think I heard it... Ten years ago, it just struck me, maybe because it's also very simple. It's kind of a simple way of thinking about wisdom and maybe different kinds of wisdom that we might experience, how they might support each other, and maybe sometimes how they might get in the way of each other. So this teaching is called traditionally the Three Wisdoms. You might have heard of it before. And traditionally, kind of, I think, I want to say pre-Mahayana, so kind of older teaching, they're usually presented as a hierarchy. So kind of, here's one level of teaching, here's another level of wisdom, here's another level of wisdom, here's the best level of wisdom.

[18:16]

And so I'll tell you what they are, and then I, of course, I think because of just what I'm familiar with is Zen practice. I want to mix them up and play with them a little differently. And I think we already do that here naturally in our Zen life. So I'll share that with you, some of what I was thinking about. So the first kind of wisdom presented is called in Sanskrit, which I probably will butcher a little bit. Sorry about that. is called shrutta maya prajna. And shrutta has to do with hearing, listening, hearing through the ears. So this kind of prajna is something that you hear, maybe from a teaching, from somebody else who understands something about wisdom. And you...

[19:20]

might not understand it really yourself, but you've got it from hearing it. So you've got like a little, you've got some level of it, some quality of this prajna. So wisdom that comes from hearing. And maybe, you know, we can all think back, depending on how long you've been here practicing and working with these teachings, just to kind of the first thing that you heard. I know for me, just sound, all this Buddhist, ideas sounded very unusual, and I really didn't understand most of the things that I encountered in my first years at Zen Center. And so I think some of it kind of stuck in there, but I still didn't really understand. So I think that is what's meant by shrutta mayaprajna, or wisdom that you get through hearing, arises from hearing. The next level is called cinta mayaprajna, And this kind of wisdom comes from actually thinking about wisdom or thinking about teachings.

[20:30]

So this sort of wisdom, maybe you have that something that you heard, maybe even something that you experienced, but something that you heard about wisdom And with your own mind, now you are turning it and thinking about it and maybe even creating something from it. Still, you don't really understand it directly. It's intellectual. So, probably, in some ways, a little bit like what we all sort of understand about wisdom. Sometimes it's very intellectual. We can kind of describe it to other people maybe. But it's hard to trust, I think, sometimes that we actually understand this. And that we actually understand it enough to be like, yeah, I really understand this direct experience.

[21:32]

So as you can imagine, the third kind of wisdom is the kind of wisdom that you understand directly. from your own direct experience, your own direct contact with awakening, with the capital R, reality of the capital U, universe. And that one's called Bhavana Maya Prajna. And Bhavana, as I understand it, actually there's so much about Bhavana, I really feel I need to take a year and study that one word. But it's kind of like, creating the conditions for a seed to sprout. And apparently in this word or phrase or this description of wisdom, the Buddha used this word deliberately because it was like describing the fields around him in northern India.

[22:37]

and the kind of soil that you would use to nourish this particular kind of seed, the particular amount of water and the kind of water that you would use to nourish the seed, creating the ideal conditions, and boom, the seed can actually sprout and bloom, and that's bhavana maya prajna. We also will chant this word, but it won't be in Sanskrit, bhavana maya prajna, and it's in the bodhisattva vow, there's a line, the last line, I vow... Thank you. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it. And the become it is the bhavana. So it's letting things become themselves, but really become it. Not just think about it. So explain it logically, which I feel like a lot of the time that's kind of where I feel comfortable. Because explain things logically... Or I heard about that. I don't get it at all.

[23:38]

This is like, maybe I can't even explain it, but I know it. I understand it. It has arisen. Does that make sense? Those three different kind of flavors. So, from what I could tell, and as I mentioned earlier, usually it seems like these teachings are presented pretty hierarchical. Like, you know, the one we want is... we want to get. But I think at least the way I've been working with them is since I think as soon as we think that we want to get that one, there's a problem already. There's already something in the way. Then there's the thought, oh, I don't have it. And then it's like, oh, wait a minute, but aren't I already awake? So already I've kind of messed up the logic. that there are awakened seeds.

[24:39]

Awakening is me. Right? So, okay, I'm not going to think about that. Try to get that bhavana, maya prajna thing. So what I was wondering is, how could we, instead of thinking about these as descriptions, is there a way to work with them as practices? To actually... not to malign or look down upon the hearing, the things that we hear from others around us, or just to extend it, the things we see or feel or taste or smell, all of the information that we get, all of the dharmas or the phenomena that we encounter. Those can also help us towards understanding, even if we don't understand them yet or how that's working. And then thinking, right? We're always thinking. It's pretty hard not to, except for that period of time in the early morning when we're non-thinking, right?

[25:44]

Why not use that practice, that activity that the mind already naturally does, but how can we take hold of it in a little bit more active way? and nurture that form of prajna. The bhavana, not so sure, kind of feel that just has to arise in a way, and we can definitely make the space for it. And so as I was telling you earlier, I feel like the nice thing about, not a nice thing, but the thing about our Zen practice here, is there's just natural flowing through these different kind of formats or these different kinds of wisdom. And that's been really interesting for me to think about, just in terms of how learning actually happens here.

[26:48]

You know, because I think it's difficult to assess someone's learning. So if I set up some kind of thing that I want my students to learn, I also have to have a way to tell what's happening. And did they learn it or how's it going for them? How am I going to tell? And I think it's tricky here with our practice. We might feel, in fact, really... not so great about how things are going. We might be having just not a great moment in the life of our practice. All kinds of things might come up and people around us might not really be reflecting our awakeness from our view.

[27:50]

They're probably doing the best they can, but the whole thing might be difficult. So how do we actually know that we're learning? How do we know what's happening? And so, I kind of like this layering, this kind of idea of this living, dynamic, layered feeling of wisdom, of there's lots of different ways to allow the teachings in. And, you know, that we don't have to really worry about that one, that last one. but just to take advantage of what's around us all the time. And there's always something right to hear or to see or to feel or to taste, to think about. Always something to think about. And so how can we actually nurture and actively nourish those skills and see what happens with the

[28:59]

direct contact part of it. Okay, let me check my... Wow, okay. So to extend my idea about these three wisdoms a little bit, I was noticing that if you have sort of the luxury to, and I'm using that word, but you might not want to use that word, if you have the luxury to be a resident here and follow the schedule completely, so maybe you're on staff, or this is just what you're doing right now, is this, here, this. From the beginning of the day, you've got so much encouragement. you've got so much teaching coming in through the ears.

[30:02]

We do use, you've noticed, we use a lot of sounds. And it's a very traditional practice to work with sound, to use sound. And to use sound deliberately during times that are silent, so we're doing this sort of bhavana rehearsal, or bhavana experiment with our zazen practice, but we have these sounds to kind of help us, help check in. Like, are you there? Are you actually awake? What's happening? Do you know where you are? Did you drift off? Did you have direct contact with ultimate reality? Anything like that. So if you're in this practice container here at Zen Center, you have this thing called a wake-up bell. It's actually a sound that's designed to stimulate awakening, literal and figurative, and big, capital W, awakening?

[31:06]

No, A, awakening. W, wake up. And then before you can even think about it, you go take this posture, you're maybe kind of grumpy, but it doesn't matter. And then you just sit there. That's all you have to do. So there's so much space to... explore how it feels to just be. At least that feeling of that glimpse, that flavor of becoming, of being there. And then there's another sound and you go somewhere else and then you do some bowing. It's very body-centered. So I'm kind of delighted in the immense support when I think about it from a teacher's perspective of this environment, towards learning what it is that we're ostensibly setting out to learn and nurture in ourselves.

[32:09]

And if you don't have that luxury, and people who live here might not think of it that way, to be in this kind of practice container, you still have it, right? Even though it might not be set up for you in such a beautiful, crafted way. There's still your wake-up bell. Whatever, maybe you have time to take a few breaths. Maybe you have time to actually do some sitting practice. But you have your body all through the whole day. And you have the capacity to stop and notice and pay attention and get that instruction and get that information. And then if you have the wonderful opportunity to do some more kind of concentrated, deliberate, formal practice. I think it can also be really helpful towards helping the non-formal aspects of your life to really echo and support you in terms of your learning.

[33:17]

So it doesn't, I'm trying to say, it doesn't have to be just in this precious kind of practice format that's all set up in this perfect way. I can attest because I mostly don't really get to spend all that time here. But all of the practice that I've had such immense privilege to engage in, you know, throughout the years, really intensely, it's just there. I feel like it's still there in my body. And that all the sounds, even at my school, there'll be a sound and I'm just like, boom! I feel like this... encouragement all the time from everywhere around me like remember wake up wake up you can wake up you can just be here you're awake so just some encouragement towards that So, does anyone know what time one should end?

[34:33]

I think it might be 8.25, is that? 8.30 is okay. I usually, I'm all over the place and I never have time for it, but I have five minutes. So, perhaps I could just stop there and if anybody has... anything, any comments or questions or things that you want to bring up about your own learning or practice or anything at all, you're welcome to. And if you don't want to, I can either keep talking or we could just be for a moment. idea of lifelong learning Getting our thoughts is really helpful to me right now.

[36:11]

And I think that as I'm still learning what it is to sit down and just be in my body, there is this tendency for myself to try to get it right, which means to do something differently than I'm already doing. And so that encouragement to actually use the capacity of what I have right now and to nurture what I have rather than change it is really helpful. And I wonder maybe what you could say and what you may offer to the moment when the thought process is kind of hijacked by fear and anxiety. Like how to kind of short circuit that. Yes. I mean, I think actually that you kind of just gave yourself a really good answer, both in your gesture.

[37:18]

You made this gesture of, what do I do when that fear or it just kind of gets hijacked, right? As soon as you notice it, just say, oh, wow. Huh, there I went. Or with something palpable like fear, we can usually... Feel it, right? So you can give yourself, if you have the chance, you can give yourself a little space to just feel that and like notice where the feeling of the fear comes up in your body. And even that, I think that process can really like settle you back down and give you a little space to go forth. And then you also said the word nurturing, nourishing, And I think so having compassion for that one who's experiencing the fear, whose thoughts are going in this way that it might even be hurtful to yourself or whatever it is, taking you away from where you want to go or the vow you want to make.

[38:32]

So I think just having some love. Oh, that was the word you used, love. Having some love, some... loving feeling for that person and for that effort that you're making to learn how to sit down and settle, which is not easy to do as you've experienced. So you had a great answer for yourself. She's like, okay. I actually just want to end with one more comment, which is, did you know that actually all learning takes place during sleep? Because I teach, one of the topics, subjects I teach is health, so I have to teach teenagers about sleep. And you know, they love hearing about how much sleep they need, right? But we actually need it too, and...

[39:34]

The only way that we can take what we've been through in the daytime and kind of allow our nervous system to take it in, digest it, for lack of more precise words, and kind of reconfigure and have the ability to make new responses is by sleeping and getting that REM sleep. So I don't know. I think we should go to bed. LAUGHTER Thank you very much.

[40:05]

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