entry. This is the Saturday Talk with San Francisco Zinsenner.

[01:40]

My name is Kodo, and at the invitation of our head of practice, we have two speakers with us today. I'm very happy to introduce both Ashanti Branch and our head of practice herself, Ho Rin Nancy Petran. To set the stage and introduce these two speakers, a little extended introduction. So Ashanti Branch was raised. by a single mother on welfare in Oakland and went on to study engineering at California Polytechnic, San Luis Obispo. A civil engineer in his first career, Ashanti found his passion for teaching while tutoring struggling students. In 2004, as a first year teacher, Ashanti started the Ever Forward Club to provide a support group for African-American and Latino males who were not achieving to the level of their potential. The Ever Forward Club has helped 100% of its members graduate high school. Branch is on a mission to change the way that students interact with their education and the way schools interact with students.

[02:45]

After being featured in the Mask You Live In documentary and fellowships at the Stanford D School, Campaign for Black Male Achievement, and the Gratitude Network, Ashanti has launched the Million Mask Movement. to connect people all over the world in a self-reflective experience that helps people visualize and realize I'm not alone. Now our head of practice, Ho Rin, Nancy Petrin began Zen practice in 1996 through the organic farm and garden apprenticeship at Green Gulch, where she lived and practiced for nine years. For many years, Nancy worked with the youth and family program at Green Gulch, mentoring and the coming of age program, and heading up the family days at Green Gulch Farm. Later served birthing women, and their families as a birth and postpartum doula. And she served as head student with City Center Abiding Habit at Satizan in 2014. And Nancy resides at City Center now with her partner, Miles Cowherd, and currently holds the head of practice role. Welcome. So we will begin with the Sutra opening verse.

[03:49]

You can find the text in the chat. And before, I'm sorry, before we begin, I'd like everyone to have access to this. which is a link to a workshop that will be held by Ashanti Branch and Myles Cowherd later today. So, Nancy, when you're ready, we'll begin with the verse. Men unsurpassed, penetrating in perfect dharma, is rarely met with, even in a hundred thousand million kalpah, Having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept, I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagata's words. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for being here. As Cotto said, can you hear me okay?

[04:52]

Yeah. Okay. I love all those thumbs up. As Kodo said, my name is Nancy Petron, and I'm currently serving as head of practice here at City Center in San Francisco. And I'm speaking with you this morning from unceded land of the Mayatush Ohlone peoples. And I'm here, I think, mainly this morning to introduce you to, if you do not yet have the pleasure of knowing, Ashanti Branch and to highlight Ashanti's work and to share the Dharma seat with him, the teaching seat with him this morning. As Kodo mentioned in the introductions, Ashanti's work with the young men of the Ever Forward Club has been highlighted in two documentaries.

[06:05]

The Mask You Live In, which follows boys and young men as they struggle to stay true to themselves while negotiating our culture's narrow definition of masculinity. And the other documentary, Beyond Men and Masculinity. And this documentary is one in a series of documentaries by the Future is Humane group. And this documentary focuses on what happens when men are taught to disconnect their feelings in the name of being strong and independent and explores the link between shame and male violence and why we find it so hard to value kindness and compassion in men.

[07:12]

It also explores the role of women and the role that women play in defining what is expected from men and masculinity. And I think this discussion and these uncomfortable questions, what can be uncomfortable questions is more crucial now than ever for each of us to explore. So as Kodo mentioned, Ashanti, We'll be meeting a workshop this afternoon with city center priest, Miles Cowherd, who happens to be a dear friend of Ashanti and a dear friend of mine and my life partner. The name of the workshop is A Hero's Journey. And I love this part, a call to adventure. So the hero's journey,

[08:14]

Oh, and also I wanted to mention that this workshop is for male-identified persons only. It is a space for men. So I think at the end of the Dharma talk, if you weren't able to grab it, Kodo can share it again. And I encourage you who have time, all of you men, from two to four this afternoon to explore this conversation. You know, it is, I think it's kind of rare that these spaces are created, these safe spaces are created for men to have these conversations. And that is really at the heart of Ashanti's work as I see it. So occasionally Dharma talks are introductions to workshops that happen in the afternoon. But really when I was thinking about it, what I really wanted was for all of you, for all of us to have the opportunity to meet Ashanti.

[09:19]

I met Ashanti. Ashanti, sorry, I'm sitting here talking about you for so long. But I first met Ashanti three miles many years ago. The first time was at an event at the Ever Forward Club, a fundraiser called the 24-hour relay, which is a crazy undertaking of a 24-hour relay where high school kids come to a campus in Oakland, they set up tents, they sleep overnight, and they are on relay teams that go around this track for 24 hours. And there's entertainment and there's shenanigans and there's Ashanti being a mother duck, a male mentor, trying to overwatch this whole thing. And that was the first time I met Ashanti. And as soon as I experienced being with him, I said to Miles, he's a bodhisattva. And although Ashanti doesn't use Buddhist terminology, he's not a Buddhist practitioner per se, he is truly the embodiment of what it is to be a bodhisattva.

[10:34]

And that is what I wanted to bring forward this morning. So a bodhisattva. Some of us are familiar with this term and some of us are not. And this morning I would like us to take up the definition of a bodhisattva as an awakening being. Both verbs and awakening and what it is. to be, to being. And a bodhisattva, an awakening being, is someone who lives and is lived for the benefit of all beings. So this is really one of those turning questions that we can all use in our practice. What is it to be lived by other beings? What is it to live for beings and how are those not separate how do they completely depend on one another so you know in the introduction that that Kodo just gave in Ashanti's bio again I was so struck by Ashanti's work you know it all boils down to this I am not alone

[12:01]

for us to remember this foundational teaching of our practice, of Buddhism, of reality, you know, we are never alone. And what is that? How is that awakened? You know, how is that, as a bodhisattva, as someone who knows that truth or doesn't, senses that truth, is still understanding that truth, meeting others there? So Ashanti, you may not use Buddhist language, but I see you walk your life, your path, your calling as a Bodhisattva. And I believe you see the world through the eyes of a Bodhisattva. So before we hear from you, I'd love for us to have a taste of Ashanti kind of behind the scenes And this is really, I think, Ashanti, where you shine and what you love doing, even though I know with the nonprofit, you spend a lot of time speaking to crowds and a lot of time fundraising for your organization.

[13:13]

But this is a little clip from the documentary, The Masked You Live In, four and a half minute clip of Ashanti with the young men. my high school I graduated from this high school I never wanted to be a teacher I was gonna be an engineer and make a lot of money that I became a teacher because I saw that my community was hurting without good teachers and I think one of the biggest challenges was that like I've been through it right and so I want them to be able to know that they can move forward and they can succeed and they can do whatever they choose to do in life but it's gonna take hard work If you go two blocks away, you'll find prostitution. There's a lot of gang activity in the area. I consider it like a war zone, right?

[14:15]

Our kids get up every morning. They have to prepare their mask for how they're going to walk to get to school. So if that mask requires me not to let people see any of my vulnerabilities, that means I may have to put on a very tough mask. And when I get here, hopefully I can take the mask off so I can focus on learning rather than continually wearing this hearted shell. A lot of our students don't know how to take the mask off. So I want you to take one of these masks. Take the mask. Here's what we're going to do. On this mask, you're going to draw what represents you. What are some things that you hold up every day when you walk to school that you let people see? And then on the back, I want you to write, what is it you don't let people see? Like what's behind the mask? All right.

[15:22]

So what I want you to do is I want you to take your mask and I want you to ball it up. I want you to hit someone across the circle with your mask. Don't leave your seat. Don't leave your seat. You can't leave your seat. Open it up. Okay. So who wants to reveal what's on the mask they open? Read it out loud, just the front. Funny, caring, and happy. Okay. What's behind the mask? Sadness and fear. Sadness and fear. Goofy, kindness, happiness, silliness, smile, and fun. Okay. On the back? Anger. Anger. Okay. I'll read mine. The front says entertainment. That's what I show on the mask. On the back says pain. Energy, frustration, happiness, friendly, heart, smile, outgoing.

[16:26]

And on the back it says sadness, scared, tears, missing my dad, trying to take care of my brothers and Why do you think we hold back our pain? People don't want everybody to know everything. You got to keep your poker face on. You ain't let them know what you got. How hard is that to walk around every day with the poker face on? It's not just an activity on paper. It's about real stuff that we are dealing with as young men that we hide behind because we don't feel safe. Almost 90% of you have pain and anger on the back of that paper. That's not a coincidence. That is real. And we're only eight here.

[17:28]

There are hundreds of young men out there that are having the same experience, but they don't have anybody to talk to about it. They're holding back sadness, they're holding back pain, they're holding back anger, because they have nobody who is even asking them, what's up with you, man? What's happening? What's going on? How can I support you? I want each of you to be able to say what you need to say, because if we're ever going to dig down to the deepness of our pain, young men, if we're ever going to dig down to the anger that we're holding behind, so we don't end up another man in jail, because we just exploded on the wrong person for the wrong thing, we gotta have a safe place to deal with it. That's brotherhood. the documentary several dozens of times.

[18:58]

One of the things that reminds me every time I see it, those young men in that room, they were perplexed in life because they were amazing Young men. And there was so much of them that they couldn't show. Like they were kind and loving and funny and silly. But they live in a community, Oakland, California, where I grew up, where you can't be too kind. Can't be too silly. Don't be too loving. Don't be too caring. And those hidden parts of their real true self only that come forward the things that they thought people needed to see.

[20:07]

Tough and rough and all that stuff. What happens if you believed that? That to show kindness and to show love and to show caring and to show gentleness makes you weak. makes you soft, makes you less than human, which is what our community told young men, suck it up young man, walk it off. You don't feel that pain, just push through it. Stop crying like a little fill in the blank. And then we're confused when they become adults and have no way of tapping into those feelings again because we've trained them. Society has trained them. Families have trained them. Friends have trained them. Community has trained them to not here.

[21:10]

It's not welcome here. Hopefully they find a place, a community where they cannot have to be perfect. While they're building toward their ideal self, they know they're in a journey. That's what I try to do for them. I was confused as to why smart, brilliant, talented young people were showing up on paper, because that's how schools measure, with letters. The letters were horrible. The letters would say, these young people are not worthy of our attention because they're not showing up. but I knew it different. They were hungry for attention. And some people will do negative things for attention. Attention is attention. I heard someone say that sometimes people who need love the most will look for it in the most unloving of ways.

[22:22]

I was just reading a quote here by Pema Chodron from the book, When Things Fall Apart. And it says, the most fundamental aggression to ourselves, the most fundamental harm we can do to ourselves is to remain ignorant by not having the courage and the respect to look at ourselves honestly, And gently. Thank you. Ashanti, I am now speaking from Kodo's office. My video froze. So I just ran down the hallway and jumped in here with him. Thanks, Kodo. You know, I didn't hear your very first words after the video. But I'm wondering, Ashanti, you know, you made it. You made it, you know, you were an engineer, you know, and as I understand it from what you've shared with me, you know, it was really kind of like you thought it was like your love of teaching.

[23:42]

Sorry, your love of math. Right. You thought it was your love of math and wanting to share that with kids and make a little side money, you know, that took you back into tutoring, you know. And and then, you know, the. The tutors, whatever the organization you were working with, was just like, oh, wow, this guy's good. Like, let's make him an offer. And you said when they invited you to join them full time, you quit. You quit the next week. You're like, uh-uh, uh-uh. I'm not teaching. My mom was a teacher. I saw her struggle. I'm an engineer. I worked hard to be an engineer, you know. So little by little, you know, there was this awakening, you know. there was this awakening of like, this is the work. And even, you know, even when you were saying, you were just like, no, no, no, no, no, this is not the work. This is not what I'm doing. Okay. I'll just do this for two years, you know, and here we are 17 years later and you didn't go back to the money, you know?

[24:45]

So, you know, um, you, you just spoke to it a little bit, you know, but yeah, What was it that called you back, even when you kept not knowing, you know, and you didn't know what you were getting into or what the work was and kind of just keep taking one step after the other? What was that that you were finally kind of like, OK, this is my work. I'm giving to it everything I've got. I think. When the fire turned on, there was a kid named Lucas. The kid looks more like Miles than he looks like me. I'm in Pleasanton, California, and Lucas is having a hard time with algebra. So I'm working at this learning center. There's no other people tutoring in that center that looks like me either. So Lucas has been going there since he was in the fifth grade.

[25:47]

He's now in the eighth grade. I turned the corner. to go help him with algebra. He's on my list. And he looks at me like, who? And what he says, the words he says is, you know, I have a test tomorrow. That's what he said. What his body language was saying is, oh, I'm in trouble now. Who do they send over to me to help? I got a test tomorrow. My mom's going to kill me if I do bad on this test. He was in his head. I said, I got you. First of all, he doesn't know me. Who am I? I mean, this dude shows around the corner and he's never seen before. And he's trusting me to help him through this tough time with multiplying polynomials. Now, if you don't know about, if you don't like math, these words are going to make you cringe. But I love multiplying polynomials. Like I consider multiplying polynomials like some people consider crossword puzzles. Like I would just do them for fun. And I asked him one question.

[26:51]

I said, can I show you a shortcut? Shortcut? Shortcuts in math? Man, what are you talking about? There's all kind of shortcuts in math. He said, okay. I said, all right. I'll show him. And he says, that's it? I said, I don't know. I mean, you can make it harder if you want, but that's what the shortcuts are meant to do. And I let him. He said, I'm going to try it. And he tries it. And then he looks at me. He says, is that the right answer? I said, I don't know. Check the back of the book. I knew, but my job was to make them. So he flips to the back of the book, all the even numbers back there. And then it was like a movie. It was like I saw, he didn't see, I saw a light come out of the back of the book with a rainbow and butterflies. And I heard a sound. It was like, oh. It was like one of the bells that we heard in the beginning. It was like, oh, soothing. I was like, where is this coming from? Where's the sound coming from? Where's this light coming from? And it was my heart on fire, like saying, this is what would make you happy for the rest of your life.

[27:57]

To help someone go from not seeing it to seeing it. Man. And that's what scared me. So when I ran, when they offered me a partnership in that company, I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. I'm an engineer. I'm just doing this for fun. I'm just here to make some travel money. I was not. So what kept me, what brought me back was that when the calling, I believe when the calling on your heart happens, you can ignore it. You can run. I ran. I'm clear I ran. I quit. I was the best math teacher they had. I was doing SAT prep for that place. I was a math specialist there. But you know what? Something inside of me was like, that's not what I'm supposed to be doing. And what happened, I changed jobs because my office was upstairs. So I had to pass by this place every day going home knowing that the calling was happening every day.

[29:02]

So I quit that company to go work at a company in San Jose. Now I'm living in Walnut Creek. I'm now going to drive an hour and a half to San Jose every day. If you know me, I've been driving, you know that doesn't make any sense. But I think when you're running from your calling, you do wild things. And I did. And what it did is it made the calling stronger. Because every time I drove by that office on the freeway, I knew where it was at. I was like, the joy. Because it was joy. It brought joy in my life. And I think that it's interesting that you would run from joy. But what if what brings you joy doesn't give you the lifestyle that you thought you wanted to live? Then it's easy to run. It's like, well, it doesn't match. And all the categories don't match. Joy, yes. Passion, yes. Purpose, yes. But it doesn't pay me.

[30:04]

And so therefore, I thought that I was no longer supposed to live a lifestyle of just barely getting by. I thought that if I had worked hard, I should live a lifestyle where I can live a lifestyle that I dreamed of. Because I was never seeing a lifestyle being something that was heart-centered. I saw amazing lifestyles being things-centered. Not who you be, what you can buy. I knew that as a teacher, educator, I wasn't going to be able to buy what I could buy as a teacher. And so I ran. And so I think the calling back, like when it finally caught me, I was at this new job. I was on a project in San Jose called Santana Row, one of the largest projects of my career, over $700 million project as an engineer. That's a dream on your resume. Like, oh, my God, I'm going to be so amazing after this. And I go on a trip during this while I'm working on this project.

[31:11]

I'll make the shortest story. And Santana Road caught on fire while I was away. Like, the big building, the biggest building on Santana Road caught on fire. This was back 2002. Yeah, 2002. And I'm watching the news. I'm in Mexico. And I'm like, that's my building. Like, what's going on here? Like, wait. What's going to happen when I get back to work? Now... The building still has to get built. But you imagine now there's a whole new situation. And I get back to work. It was almost like something was saying, this is not what you're supposed to do anymore. I mean, you could stay here and fix this up. And I think the calling on my heart was stronger. And so it kept bringing me back to like, I was trying to run. If you ask my... my ego part of my brain. It was, I was not trying to get, to go to that, [...] that program, but it was clear when I became, when I went to the program day one in my classes, I was like, yeah, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

[32:22]

And I had to let go. I had to let go. So Ashanti, you know, then you started that work and what you've said is, to me, is I didn't know what I was doing. I was a first-year teacher. I was failing. I felt like I was failing the kids. And then from that and from you reaching out to the kids, actually, to the young men and saying, what am I doing wrong here? We're in this together. That work developed then into circle work and the holding space for these young men. And that evolved into this workshop that I believe actually even this morning you were doing a taking off the mask workshop in Nigeria. And, you know, so it's and then that evolved into this million mask movement, because I guess, you know, why play it small when you can, you know, take it around the world and bring this to so many people.

[33:27]

So when you and I were talking about this Dharma talk. you were like, let's take off the mask, you know, let's have them take off the mask, you know? And then I said kind of like how many people were gonna be here? And you're like, oh, you know, it's like the real work is the conversation, is the unpacking, right? So how did you come up with this seemingly simple exercise? I'm keeping my eye on the time here. In about 12 minutes, we're going to pivot or open this up for other people to ask questions. But, you know, you keep meeting these young men where they're at. This is the work of a bodhisattva. You go to where they are to understand how to be with them in their maturing, in their awakening, in their becoming whole, you know.

[34:29]

So I know you have developed this workshop, taking off the mask. Then you've done that, then turned into a board game. Then there's been podcasts. Then there's, it's like you keep meeting them. Like, you know, but I think it all goes back to this kind of simple, what you call a simple exercise, which we just saw in the video. And, you know, this is what we do. This is our commitment. as Zen practitioners, to really understand what's behind the mask. What's the whole mask? We imagine that mask covering our whole body. What is this? So what's at the heart of it? Yeah. Those young men in that room, when you saw that clip, that was the first time we had done it. I didn't know it was going to work. Those young men, they never opened up. Like when we come to circle, we check in.

[35:32]

Everybody's a 10. We go from scale 1 to 10. 1 is the worst. 10 is the best. How are you doing? Every day. Everybody's a 10. Maybe a 1-9, but all of them are 10s. And I'm like, yeah, no. No, you're not a 10 today. You're not a 10. You got kicked out of five classes. You only got six of them. How are you a 10? How is that a 10 behavior? How do you feel good about a day where everywhere you went, they kicked you out? Come on. And what happened was when I knew that they were going to be filming us with the documentary, I was like, well, they're going to resist. Now, I'm not against them resisting. They can resist. That's part of the truth. But I was like, what could I do with them so that they could open up and fight down some of the resistance? I said, what if they don't have to talk about it? So what we did when you saw them writing on their own paper, and I made them ball them up, the part that I was trying to do was get the paper out of their hands and hopefully get them mixed up enough that they get somebody else's paper.

[36:35]

Because then they don't have to read their own. They're reading someone else's. And I think what you heard when the words, when you saw the young man reacting who was holding the basketball, I couldn't see... that angle from where I was sitting. I didn't see it until I saw the documentary, literally, that he had that kind of reaction that happened. I knew there was stuff happening in the room, but I didn't see that. I saw something a little bit later, but here's what I recognized, is that we ask people to share three. Now we ask them three words in three words. What you heard me explain to them then was when I was making it up. I actually even printed masks for them. So what I do now is they draw their own And we have some three words on the front. If you think about it yourself, what are three things of yourself that you gladly talk about? You gladly let people see. And then if you think about what are the things you don't let people see? What's behind the mask? And what we see over and over again is that when people get a chance to like explore, they recognize, man, other people are going through similar stuff.

[37:44]

Like, why are we not talking about it? Well, depends on the type of communities you have around you. Some people have communities where they can be open and honest, and some people don't. And if you've always had that, then it makes it hard to believe that there are people who don't do that. And so what we've been able to do with this one picture, six words, is we've just started by saying, hey, it's simple. That's a simple thing to do. Just draw a little picture, write six words, right? But it's not easy necessarily to think about behind the mask stuff. And that's what we've seen. I'll show you this one. This is one that we did at a school. I'll let you read the words, Nancy. This is the front of the mask. You see the front of the mask. And I'll let you see the back. So this is the one word from the front. Can you see it? Let me go closer. I see happy, smart, outgoing, and caring. yeah yeah and you probably see the words on the back kind of bleeding through a little bit so i'm gonna let you see the words on the back you don't have to read them just look at them but you'll see you'll see it quickly yeah yeah yeah written 18 times it says anger yeah yeah we're so afraid to show our anger yeah and we see that this is a teenager at a school

[39:08]

And this is one that came in the mail. This is as a young man. And this is one that came in the mail. Funny, successful, strong. Oh, this is a 65-year-old male from San Francisco. And then on the back of the mask, wrong, sensitive, kindness. It doesn't get to show. Yeah. And so this is part of the work. We help people recognize, did I write that? That's not mine, but I could have wrote those words or I recognize those words. I think that's what people, I think people want to be seen more fully seen. But what if the people you around never ask? Then you may never think it's okay to share what you're really going through. When people, think about the last time somebody asked you how you're doing. I think we often use how you're doing as a greeting. When do we really use it as an inquiry?

[40:10]

Like usually, how do you answer how you're doing? I don't know. Fine, good, cool. I mean, people have different answers in different circles, right? But what I see a lot of times is people use how you're doing and they're really just saying hi, but you respond back because you're supposed to respond back. But what if you just slow down? What if the next time somebody asks you how you're doing, you try this. You say, you know what? I am so glad you asked me that. And just watch their whole beat. They'll be like, wait, you're not doing it right. You're not doing it right. Maybe they'll be like, oh, please tell me. But what ends up happening is if they were in a process of just in our normal flow, and I'm speaking definitely in generalities because maybe people are used to like... telling people really what they feel. But what I see with definitely the young people we work with, good, cool, fine. So my job is to say, well, what's good?

[41:15]

What's cool? What's fine? Because not to judge your good, cool, or fine, but to say, fine is different for me than it is for you. So how about you give me a little bit more detail? Then when they know that you really got to make time, that you really will listen, then they'll be willing to go deeper. You know, Ashanti, I know part of this board game that you've designed, part of it, you get more points if you go deeper, even though you don't really frame it that way. And there was, Miles was watching a video. I think it might have been part of the last 24-hour relay, actually, that was on Zoom. And it was two young men playing the game, asking each other the questions. And all I heard was, I saw them. They're so beautiful. Yeah. These young men are so beautiful. I saw them and then I heard one ask the other, what is something, what is a story you carry around with you all the time? That was one of the questions, like one of the 17-year-olds was asking another 17-year-old.

[42:20]

Like, this isn't a normal conversation that I hear 17-year-olds having. And then I heard, so I don't know how the game goes, but then I heard the other one say, I think I'm going to answer this one from behind the mask. So what I was hearing was like part of this game is like you're teaching them or you're offering them a way to go deep in a safe way, right? I think, you know, titrating or something like that. I think that might be a term for it. But, you know, I'm looking at the time and I want to ask you this one last question before we open up to other questions, Ashanti. I know that you do a lot of commencement talks and that you speak all over the world. And I know that hopefully some people in the sangha in this group will be signing up for the workshop this afternoon. But what is one thing that you would want us to hear this morning?

[43:27]

What is one thing that you would like those of us, you would like us to take? from your work and what you've come to learn as the most important thing. I think the best way to do it is I'm going to read you a thank you letter. And this thank you letter was written to me by a young man at the end of the school year. I was a vice principal at a middle school. And the first letter he wrote me was not like this letter. The first letter he wrote me, an 11-year-old boy said he was done. I don't want to be here no more. It's probably the most confused I've ever been and not knowing what to do. So that day, our relationship really took off. But this letter he brought me at the end of the year, it's probably the most cherished letters I have.

[44:30]

And it says, I'm going to just read it with all the misspellings, but I think you'll get the idea. He's 11. He says, thank you later to Mr. Branch. Can I show it? Yeah? Maybe he'll let me show it. It may be great to see his writing. Yeah, I got to show him. I got to share. I'll let you see it, because it's 11-year-old writing, right? Can you see it? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you later to Mr. Branch. Dear Mr. Branch, I want to thank you for being there for me. If it wasn't for you. I wouldn't probably. I didn't expect that. I probably wouldn't be here right now.

[45:31]

I hope to see you next year because I need somebody to share my feelings with or how I'm feeling. And you is one of those people I can talk to. And I want to thank that for you. Thank you. And I think that what I want you to. seeing this is that maybe there's people who you've helped in your life that uh they may never write you a thank you letter they may never tell you how you've helped them through a transition through a rough patch they may they may never thank that for you but i am i thank you for the people that you listen to without judgment people who you've built trust with I want to thank that for you. Sometimes we do it and no one ever lets us know that we help them.

[46:34]

But man, when they let you know. I didn't expect this letter to hit me like that right now. I've read this letter more than 100 times. Sometimes it hits me. Sometimes it doesn't in that way. But right today it hit me. Because I think young people are often overlooked. I just want you, I guess the last thing I'll share is this quote that says, the longest distance that most people travel is the 18 inches between their head and their heart. And most people get stuck in our heads. And so my, what I'm going to leave you with is, I think we just need to be more connected to our hearts. And that's what I hope. That's what I hope. That's the... That's what I, yeah, I think that's the best thing I can say at this present moment. Thank you, Ashanti.

[47:35]

Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Well, we're going to open it up now for others to be able to ask questions of you, of me, of both of us. So Kota will help us with that transition. I'm going to do a bow since you're here. Okay. are numberless. I vow to save them. Illusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it. Hello again, everyone. Wonderful to be with you. And we'll transition to Q&A. If you have questions or comments, feel free to raise your Zoom hand.

[48:38]

I can help you unmute. I'll remove the spotlight so we can have a face-to-face exchange if your video is on. And a reminder of our practice of move up and move back to make space for others. And if you commonly don't take up space, feel free to take up some space. So remove these spotlights. Good morning. Am I unmuted? Oh, yes, I'm unmuted. Good morning, Ashanti. It's a pleasure. I think I met you briefly one time at Tassajara. There was a Zenathon and my friend Miles introduced us, but I didn't know that much about you at the time. And I must say, I really regret that I never saw this documentary.

[49:39]

I think I heard of it one time. Miles may have told me about it. And it's really an amazing topic. I can't think of any one topic that would help improve our culture more than to get rid of toxic masculinity. And I'm just so amazed that you're doing that work on that in a local, you know, person to person sort of way. The thing that came up for me seeing the preview of your documentary was what would happen in that circle if on the side of the mask that one of those young men didn't want to reveal was they're gay. That's something that's very hard to talk about and very, you know, personally oppressive for a lot of kids. And it's almost to me, it felt like that would be like a whole different branch of discussion Everything that is happening in that room is really benefiting those boys, those young men that are in there. But it seems like it would change the topic a whole lot.

[50:44]

And I don't know, has that happened before and how do you deal with it? Yeah, thank you for that. Here's what we know. We know in our schools, in our communities, a lot of young men in our work are asking themselves lots of questions. I think that what they know in our space is that we have created and crafted a safe space to do that. I think that in workshops where young men have written those words on the back or written that they're questioning or that they're confused about their sexuality, I think sometimes the room responds how it is able to respond and best. But I think that as our, definitely with young people, they know that amongst themselves, there's lots of questions. And I think that we've created with this tool is that if you're willing to share it, even though it's anonymous, that we try to make as safe as possible for you to like take off that mask.

[51:55]

And so when we've had workshops that are small like that or bigger, and when words like that come out, the question is, What you saw in that workshop clip, we read everything. What we do mostly in the workshops now, which is for time's sake, we read one word from the front and one from the back because we have lots of people. So sometimes people won't read that word or they will read it and then everyone kind of like feels the real. Like the same thing with suicide. We have young people write those words. And what we know is And when real words come out, there's a moment of just like, oh, wait, this is getting really real. And so for me, I'm always prepared for whatever may come. And what our young men begin to learn in the process is that we're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about the hard stuff.

[52:56]

We're going to talk about the easy stuff. We're going to talk about all of it. in a way of just holding space. The clip you saw was the first I'd ever done it. So I didn't know what was going to come out. I didn't know what those young men were holding behind. They actually had never told me. So what I was learning from them was what they were all learning from each other at the same moment. So what I've come to in this work is, yeah, thank you. That's it. It's not to be fixed. We're not telling people that once you're out in the back, we're going to fix it. We just say, what is the things you don't get to talk about? And we can just acknowledge that there's so many things we don't get to talk about. You would be amazed to see how many people feel more comfortable talking about them. Where that just by talking about it doesn't mean you make me wrong or you make me have to be fixed, that you just accept it. And that's what we do. And so, yeah, I don't know what would happen then, but now if it happens, I just take a breath and I'm saying thank you.

[54:00]

When people decide to read that word, a tougher word, you know, people have three words to choose from when they read a word. When they read one of the harder ones, I honor them for that. I honor the hard words because some of them may land harder than others. And that's the best that I have for that. And I would say when you go to the site to make a mask they're going to give you the link i invite you to make a mask and i invite you to go and look at the gallery we've collected over 50 000 masks from more than 30 countries and you can go into there and see different masks that have been created and you'll see people who write things about identity and questioning and all those things. And it's beautiful. And I think that as we begin to make it more normalized, we don't have to have a special activity that does it. I think we can just know that people will let us be ourselves and they won't try and make us who they think we should be. That's how we do it.

[55:03]

Thanks for the question. Thanks. Yeah, it makes sense to me that you have like... the ability to make extra space for hard topics that's that basically gets to the point of my question is like what do you do with this one thank you thank you thank you i'm just going to add um i highly recommend beyond men and masculinity um it explores the full range of what it is to be human a male human in that in this case, that documentary, it's so wonderful. And it's really the first time that they really address, there's a whole section about homosexuality and really beautifully done documentary. So Miguel. Good morning. Thank you for this wonderful, wonderful talk. I really appreciate just about everything that you brought up today. I guess my question centers around just the difficulties that like I've seen within my family over the last six years, especially through the Trump administration, where being vulnerable, especially as a young man of color, meant that you were pretty much painting a target on yourself.

[56:30]

It was very difficult to see The irony is that, like, you know, for the folks my age, we were kind of used to this. We were like, oh, OK, so, you know, we got to go back into retreat mode. But watching my nephews. You know, coming home from from ballgames in like that hot, frustrated, teary state where they can't cry because they were called incredibly harmful racial epithets, things that I haven't heard in like 15 years now suddenly uses taunts at a baseball game. And likewise, having to curb, I guess, your outrage at situations in public settings. And I guess it ties in with, again, that whole notion with the previous notion of like encountering and opening up about something that is as public and as private as a sexual identity.

[57:37]

I guess what I'm saying is like, how do we deal with blossoming and opening up in a culture that continuously shuts it down? It's like the flower blooms and then the foot comes down to crush it. And it's almost as if you, at least my experience when I was growing up with this, it was like, You were being trained to be a target to be more vulnerable so as to call attention away from the others. In other words, you were the outlier to be picked on so that the rest of the group can function. Let me say I'm going to do my best. So let me say this is my hardest can't come into the in the in the question. I mean, if I don't answer it, but. I think that we have become lazy in our ability to have cognitive dissonance.

[58:44]

Like there was a time when there was only three news channels and you just had to watch those news channels. And you would hear stuff you agree with, stuff you didn't agree with, but you only had those to choose from. Now, We don't actually have to hear anything that we don't really want to hear. So if I want to hear only this type of topic, then I will only watch those things. And my device will be so smart that it will begin to only show me those things. They're making it easy for me. I don't have to choose a channel. I just open up my... preferred place of looking at stuff and the stuff that I like will show up and the stuff that I don't want to see probably won't even show up. And so therefore, when I hear something that is not what I really want to hear, I become quickly ability to get away from it, to make it wrong, to make it different because I've gotten practice in these devices. The people who make these are, they make a lot of money for a reason.

[59:48]

They know how to get attention. And so when those boys come home and they're feeling hurt and they feel like they can't show it or they feel like they've been talked about badly and they're figuring out how do I navigate this feeling in a way what do I do with it I think as adults we have some responsibility to teach them how to navigate contrary to how I see things words actions and do it in a way that's also not only healthy but respectful and the ways they're going to keep us whole and so I I encourage adults to get really clear about their own masks and find ways to help young people see adults navigating those difficult things. But as adults, we don't show kids how to navigate when we're mad about something, when we shield them from all the stuff that we're gathering. So we don't even show them how do we process. What do we do when we're mad? Do we suck it up? And then we tell our kids, hey, I'm fine. And then they don't know how to deal with it.

[60:49]

being mad or upset because they've never seen us deal with it. So they, they, you know, they, they learn how to deal with it by their peers. We see them acting ways. We're like, why are you acting like that? Well, they've never seen some of the adults navigate in their life, navigate conflict. So they, they begin to navigate them in the ways they've learned. Well, if my parents never, my parents never have problems. So I don't know how to do a problem for my parents, but I know my friends at the playground handle problems. Yeah. And therefore you adopt where you get the lessons from. If you don't have a place to like be weak, be soft, be gentle, be caring. I've seen, I've seen fathers. I've seen fathers that be aimed. I've seen fathers in the mall. I'm not, not only fathers, I've seen mothers do it too. I'm just in that context. I said, I've seen it. Hey, suck it up. We don't cry. That hurts my heart. It hurts my heart when I see that for those coming from a boy, wherever it's coming from. And I think that part of our work is giving them permission to say, you know, I know out there it's hard to do, so come here.

[61:51]

Let it out. Feel it. Adults are really, I've heard adults say, hey, if they don't want to be your friends, don't worry about them. Because adults, I forgot what it was like to be seven and lose a friend. Right? When you're an adult, you got a job, you got a career, you got stuff. I don't care about these people. But when you're seven, friends are all you got. You ain't got no job, you ain't got no career, you ain't got no purpose yet. You're just like, my friends are all it is. And when the adults trying to tell you don't deal with it, they're like trying to tell you not to feel what you're feeling. And so I think adults have to begin, I'm just using this contrast between adults and young people, just based on your example. We have to help them learn how we feel when people betray us or talk bad to us. how do we navigate those feelings and talk about them and not bottle them up? Because what we, what we've seen, when you bottle them up, they're coming back. They're coming back when you least expect it, when you least want it.

[62:52]

And it may come up against people who you love, who love you, because then our resistance is, is lower, right? And it's easier for it to come out. And I think part of our work is giving people tools and even just tools of, of having conversation. So yeah, that's the best answer I have based on what you said. Thank you. I appreciate it. I guess what I'm getting out of it is practices that preach. If I tell the kids, you know, ignore it, there's no reason to go through it. It's just superficial. I'm ill preparing them because I'm bottling up my own outrage and kind of, kind of showing them that like emotional constipation is the way to go. And as opposed to like just sitting down with them going, it's like, okay, we can breathe through this in, out, and then we can say a couple of choice swear words, have a good cry, and, you know, we'll continue. Yeah.

[63:53]

All right. Yeah. I appreciate that. Thank you. [...] Matthew. Hey there. So I found this all very... First, I'd like to say I loved how you started discussing how you love doing multiplication of polynomials. So what that right from the bat had me thinking, and it was a good thing to begin thinking about given what followed, is I was thinking about clarity and how people have a natural impulse towards clarity. I mean, you know, if you have babies who are born colorblind and you put on glasses that fix that, they'll often be overwhelmed with emotion.

[64:56]

They're so overwhelmed with beauty. They'll laugh or they'll cry with joy. This is something that humans seem to take a lot of pleasure in. It's something that's very motivating. And the reason that I thought that that was a good thing to start with is just the work that you were doing, beginning with people who, as a result of their insecurity, intentionally set up obscurity. You know, these masks, these walls. And you had this process where you set up a space for vulnerability and transparency uh which in sharing that achieved uh a sort of mutual understanding and clarity um which is something that we moved towards and it seemed to be very healing it seemed to be something that uh you know was an antidote to a

[66:01]

a very deep sense of lack of ease or dis-ease. The question that I have is, what kind of work can a person do to integrate the sort of clarity that you achieve in these sorts of circles in such a way that it... follows people outside of those healing events? How does one... I mean, because these are... These are circles. These are, you know, peer support. There's... It's sort of... I guess I'm wondering... How does one carry that autonomously outside of a circle?

[67:04]

How does one take that clarity and make it lasting and something that a person wouldn't necessarily require support? Because supports will not be there outside of that circle. I want to, let me try it like this. I have lots of thoughts and they're coming really fast. But let me start with this one. There's a quote by, I think her name is Lilla Watson. And she said, if you have come here to help me, you're wasting your time. But if you've come here because your liberation, is bound with mine then let us work together and the reason that one stands out to me is because what i try and do in those circles with those young men is um i am telling them that my liberation as an adult in this world is bound up connected to them being able to be young men in this world young men women all all beings but when i'm talking about the young men circles young men who are also healthy and open

[68:26]

Because if I meet them on the street and I don't know them, and they are feeling some kind of stress, worry, whatever, and all I see is a smile, then I would assume that, hey, how you doing? Like I would just make connection. But if... If that smile is not real and therefore everywhere they go, they don't know how to operate when they're feeling stressed or whatever. Somebody could be trying to just greet you and you can react in a wild way. So how does it become outside of the circle? What I tell the young men is that I know, honestly, that society is not as prepared as we want them to be to see men, to let men just show all of our feelings. We're just as human as anybody else. But why don't we get to show a large percentage of our feelings? Well, because we've been told. We've been programmed. I've been programmed. I've been told.

[69:27]

Even when I was reading that letter and I started feeling tears come, I'm programmed to fight it back. I'm like, back it up. Back it up. I know it's not real. I know that I'm not going to be harmed here. But it's a program. If I was fully free to just be what I feel, what I feel, I would just let myself cry. There was a lot of tears in there about to come out. I fought them all back. Not because I feel unsafe with you all. I trust, I know Miles and Nancy personally, and I feel really safe in this space. But why do I do that? Well, because there's messaging. Well, what are they going to think? What if I cry too much? Well, what if I, so I'm still policing myself. Even in a space like this where I feel totally safe. Why am I doing that? Well, it's one tier enough, two tier. How much can I let out about people getting annoyed? Because it's what my programming is telling me. And so what I know is that because I, as a person who teaches this, know that it's hard.

[70:32]

I just want people to have more room to say, listen, when you begin to feel, you got to either decide. I can't do it right now. but I need to come back to that. That sadness, that anger, that worry, that stress that was coming. Right now, I'm in the middle of a presentation, Chante. You need to keep it together, but come back to it. Come back to why that letter hit you today like it did. Don't ignore that feeling of sadness and just feeling appreciated. It's coming back right now. I see it. I've learned that if I ignore it, it's coming back again, isn't it? But I've learned that I just tell my emotions, okay, you know what, right now we got to finish this presentation. And I need to, I need to come back to this in my journal tonight, or I need to come back to this later this afternoon and tap into what, why am I, why is I'm, why am I feeling this letter so deeply today? And so I don't, the best answer I have for you is what we try and do is just give them language to begin having more emotional intelligence to say, if you feel it is real.

[71:38]

Okay. And you may not have time to deal with it in the moment that it starts coming up if I'm in like, you know, whatever situation. But maybe I need to make sure I let myself know, you know what, you have the right to feel that. But we just can't do it right now. So let's come back to it. And I compartmentalize it, right? Sometimes I'm better at that than others, right? I think it's easier for me to do with that. It's harder for me to do with anger. Because anger wants to rush forward because I was taught as a young man in my community that anger would get you respect. So anger is always willing to come forward faster than sadness. And so what I have to do for myself, and so when I'm talking to young people and I know that they're resisting to show emotions, I tell them, I feel it too, brother. I know what it's like. So yeah, I can go along. I mean, I'm trying to make a concise answer, but it's such a wild, beautiful question that it has lots of pieces. I don't have an answer for it. It's a practice. It's kind of like the practice that you all have, right? You have a practice.

[72:38]

It's not like you're going to be, oh, I got it. I got the rope. Now I'm done, right? No, that's probably when it even gets more because now people are testing you. Oh, you think you calm? Let's see how calm you are, right? They may even push your buttons on purpose to see if you really, what are you? Yeah. I don't know that that happens, but I can tell you for a person who, like me, who talks about emotions, people will do that sometimes, maybe intentionally or unintentionally. I have to come back, come back, Branch, come back. I don't know. Matthew, I can talk about that question a while, but I'll stop there. Thank you for the question. It's a beautiful question, and it's work. It's practice. Yeah, so What I take from your answer, I think that it's a perfect answer in a sense because I think that the lack of conciseness in the answer is reflective of the answer.

[73:44]

What it sounds like to me is, first off, you seem to be discussing a confession of ignorance in solidarity with the people who you're speaking with. but also a certain sort of training, just not a didactic sort of way of leading towards clarity, but rather teaching people how to ask questions skillfully and the different contexts in which the kinds of skillful questions might be appropriate. Yeah. And just knowing how to navigate when stuff comes up that, hey, I don't want them to think that they have to look to me or wait for me to answer. I want them to learn how to feel. I want them to learn how to trust their intuition. Because if I am feeling sad...

[74:48]

but my community tells me I can't show sad, but I can show anger. I may turn sadness into anger. And if I don't get clear that that's what I'm doing, I could be breaking and destroying relationships all around. And if I get, if I help the young men begin and the young people in our work, we work with all young people now, but when I can help them recognize, what are you feeling for real? If I can name it for real, then I'm like, Oh, I don't need to get angry about this. I'm actually sad, but I can't show sadness. So what am I going to do? And I think it's about getting, getting clear about language and definitions. so that they have room to recognize, oh, I was about to get mad at this person, but I'm actually sad that this relationship is ending. I'm sad that whatever the thing is, or I'm worried. And so I think the clarity about having more emotional language also helps me to be able to respond in a way that actually is more accurate. So, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, we're at 1130.

[75:54]

Miles, do you want to say something really short? Yeah, it's just a confession from the back of the mask. I don't know if it was by chance, but that was my mask, Ashanti. Sensitivity, kindness, and I forget what the third was. And I just want to publicly thank you for helping me wake up to those parts of myself with our friendship. Okay. How many masks do you have, Ashanti, to choose from? 50,000? Wow. Thank you. Wow. Wow. Thank you, brother. Thank you, brother. Ashanti, thank you so much for being with us. I hope you come back soon. And there's still room to sign up, you men. And please have the conversation. Thank you, everybody. Have a great weekend. Thank you. Thank you, Roshanti. Look forward to seeing you this afternoon. I'm looking forward to it, David.

[76:55]

Thank you, Roshanti. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Inspiring. Everyone have a good day. Thank you, Susan. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Peggy. Thank you. It's always good to cry. When you're crying, you know you're in the realm of truth. Thank you, Sito. Thank you. Yeah, take care. Thanks so much. Thank you, Shoshana. Yeah, see ya. Good to see you. Hi, Mom. Good to see you.

[77:56]

All right, Ashanti, thanks. Hey, I'll see you in a little bit. Did you know that was mine? You didn't know that was mine? No. Oh, my God, that's hilarious. All these come in the mail, so I just put them in a clip, and once I get like 50 of them, I file them. but they'd stay on my desk until I get a stack 50. So this is the last one that came in the mail. So it was just on top. That's insane. And it's 55, Nance, not 65. Oh, it was before your birthday. Now you're 56. Okay. I'm jealous. I can't be in the workshop this afternoon, but I know you guys are just going to have such a great time. But as I told you, I'll show you how to do it and you can do it for everyone. I know, but I want to be with you. I know. Maybe we'll do one for the women and you can, I'll be there for the first part and then I'll leave you there so that they can do the first part.

[79:00]

Boundless energy, Ashanti. Love you. I love you too. Thank you all so much. Be well, everybody. Take care. Bye. Miles, I'll see you in a little bit. 145? Yeah, we'll check in that time. Okay. Okay. Love you. Bye, everybody. Mom, I'm going to call you. Bye, everybody.

[79:22]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_90.06