This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. I'm speaking with you this morning from unceded land of the Mayatush Ohlone peoples. And I'm here, I think, mainly this morning to introduce you to, if you do not yet have the pleasure of knowing, Ashanti Branch and to highlight Ashanti's work and to share the Dharma seat with him, the teaching seat with him this morning. As Kodo mentioned in the introductions, Ashanti's work with the young men of the Ever Forward Club has been highlighted in two documentaries, The Mask You Live In, which follows boys and young men as they struggle to stay true to themselves while negotiating our culture's narrow definition of masculinity.

[01:26]

and the other documentary, Beyond Men and Masculinity. And this documentary is one in a series of documentaries by the Future is Humane group. And this documentary focuses on what happens when men are taught to disconnect from their feelings in the name of being strong and independent and explores the link between shame and male violence and why we find it so hard to value kindness and compassion in men. It also explores the role of women and the role that women play in defining what is expected from men and masculinity. And I think this discussion and these uncomfortable questions, what can be uncomfortable questions, is more crucial now than ever for each of us to explore.

[02:44]

So as Kodo mentioned, Ashanti will be reading a workshop this afternoon with city center priest, Miles Cowherd, who happens to be a dear friend of Ashanti and a dear friend of mine and my life partner. The name of the workshop is A Hero's Journey. And I love this part, a call to adventure. So the hero's journey, you know, oh, and also I wanted to mention that this workshop is for male identified persons only. It is a space for men. So I think at the end of the Dharma talk, if you weren't able to grab it, Kodo can share it again. And I encourage you who have time, all of you men, from two to four this afternoon to explore this conversation. You know, it is, I think it's kind of rare that these spaces are created, these safe spaces are created.

[03:55]

for men to have these conversations. And that is really at the heart of Ashanti's work as I see it. So occasionally Dharma talks are introductions to workshops that happen in the afternoon. But really when I was thinking about it, what I really wanted was for all of you, for all of us to have the opportunity to meet Ashanti. I met Ashanti. Ashanti, sorry, I'm sitting here talking about you for so long. But I first met Ashanti three miles many years ago. The first time was at an event at the Ever Forward Club, a fundraiser called the 24-hour relay, which is a crazy undertaking. A 24-hour relay where high school kids come to a campus in Oakland. They set up... They sleep overnight, and they are on relay teams that go around this track for 24 hours.

[04:58]

And there's entertainment, and there's shenanigans, and there's Ashanti being a mother duck, a male mentor, trying to overwatch this whole thing. And that was the first time I met Ashanti. And as soon as I experienced being with him, I said to Miles, He's a bodhisattva, you know. And although Ashanti doesn't use Buddhist terminology, he's not a Buddhist practitioner per se. He is truly the embodiment of what it is to be a bodhisattva. And that is what I wanted to bring forward this morning. So a bodhisattva. Some of us are familiar with this term and some of us are not. And this morning, I would like us to take up the definition of a bodhisattva as an awakening being.

[06:00]

Both verbs, an awakening and what it is to be, to being. And a bodhisattva, an awakening being, is someone who lives and is lived for. the benefit of all beings. So this is really one of those turning questions that we can all use in our practice. What is it to be lived by other beings? What is it to live for other beings? And how are those not separate? How do they completely depend on one another? So in the introduction that that Kodo just gave in Ashanti's bio. Again, I was so struck by Ashanti's work. It all boils down to this, I am not alone.

[07:03]

For us to remember this foundational teaching of our practice, of Buddhism, of reality, we are never alone. And what is that? How is that awakened? You know, how is that as a bodhisattva, someone who knows that truth or senses that truth is still understanding that truth, meeting others there. So Ashanti, you may not use Buddhist language, but I see you walk your life, your path, your calling as a bodhisattva. And I believe you see the world through the eyes of a Bodhisattva. So before we hear from you, I'd love for us to have a taste of Ashanti kind of behind the scenes. And this is really, I think, Ashanti, where you shine and what you love doing, even though I know with the nonprofit you spend a lot of time speaking to crowds and a lot of time fundraising for your organization.

[08:16]

This is a little clip from the documentary, The Mask You Live In, four and a half minute clip of Ashanti with the young men. This is my high school. I graduated from this high school. I never wanted to be a teacher. I was going to be an engineer and make a lot of money. I became a teacher because I saw that my community was hurting. without good teachers. And I think one of the biggest challenges was that I've been through it, right? And so I want them to be able to know that they can move forward and they can succeed and they can do whatever they choose to do in life. But it's gonna take hard work. If you go two blocks away, you'll find prostitution. There's a lot of gang activity in the area. I consider it like a war zone, right? Our kids get up every morning. They have to prepare their mask for how they're gonna walk to get to school. So if that mask requires me not to let people see any of my vulnerabilities, I mean, I may have to put on a very tough mask.

[09:25]

And when I get here, hopefully I can take the mask off so I can focus on learning rather than continually wearing this hard shell. A lot of our students don't know how to take the mask off. So I want you to take one of these masks, take the mask, Here's what we're going to do. On this mask, you're going to draw what represents you. What are some things that you hold up every day when you walk to school that you let people see? And then on the back, I want you to write, what is it you don't let people see? What's behind the mask? So what I want you to do is I want you to take your mask, and I want you to ball it up. I want you to hit someone across the circle with your mask.

[10:29]

Don't leave your seat. Don't leave your seat. You can't leave your seat. Open it up. Okay. So who wants to reveal what's on the mask they open? Read out loud, just the front. Funny, caring, and happy. Okay. What's behind the mask? Sadness and fear. Sadness and fear. Goofy. Kindness. Happiness. Silliness. Smile. Fun. Okay. On the back. Anger. Anger. Okay. I'll read mine. The front says entertainment. That's what I show on the mask. On the back says pain. Energy. Frustration. Happiness. Friendly. Heart. Smile. Outgoing, and on the back it say sadness, scared, tears, missing my dad, trying to take care of my brothers, and pain.

[11:32]

Why do you think we hold back our pain? People don't want everybody to know everything. You gotta keep your poker face on. You can't let them know what you got. How hard is that to walk around every day with the poker face on? It's not just an activity on paper. It's about real stuff that we are dealing with as young men that we hide behind because we don't feel safe. Almost 90% of you had pain and anger on the back of that paper. That's not a coincidence. That is real. And we're only eight here. There are hundreds of young men out there that are having the same experience, but they don't have anybody to talk to about it. They're holding back sadness, they're holding back pain, they're holding back anger, because they have nobody who's even asking them, what's up with you, man? What's happening? What's going on? How can I support you? I want each of you to be able to say what you need to say.

[12:46]

Because if we're ever going to dig down to the deepness of our pain, young men, if we're ever going to dig down to the anger that we're holding behind so we don't end up another man in jail because we just exploded on the wrong person for the wrong thing, we've got to have a safe place to deal with it. That's brotherhood. Take a breath. I've watched the documentary several dozens of times. One of the things that reminds me every time I see it, those young men in that room, they were perplexed

[13:47]

in life because they were amazing young men. And there was so much of them that they couldn't show. Like they were kind and loving and funny and silly. But they lived in a community, Oakland, California, where I grew up, where you can't be too kind. Can't be too silly. Don't be too loving. Don't be too caring. And those hidden parts of their real true self only that come forward the things that they thought people needed to see. Tough and rough and all that stuff. What happens if you believed? That, that to show kindness and to show love and to show caring and to show gentleness makes you weak, makes you soft, makes you less than human, which is what our community told young men.

[15:04]

Suck it up, young man. Walk it off. You don't feel that pain. Just push through it. Stop crying like a little fill in the blank. And then we're confused when they become adults and have no way of tapping into those feelings again because we've trained them. Society has trained them. Families have trained them. Friends have trained them. Community has trained them to not here. It's not welcome here. Hopefully they find a place. A community. where they cannot have to be perfect. While they're building toward their ideal self, they know they're in a journey. That's what I try to do for them. I was confused as to why smart, brilliant, talented young people were showing up on paper, because that's how schools measure, with letters.

[16:12]

The letters were horrible. The letters would say, these young people... not worthy of our attention because they're not showing up. But I knew it different. They were hungry for attention. And some people will do negative things for attention. Attention is attention. I heard someone say that sometimes people who need love the most will look for it in the most unloving of ways. I was just reading a quote here by Pema Chodron from the book, When Things Fall Apart. And it says, the most fundamental aggression to ourselves, the most fundamental harm we can do to ourselves is to remain ignorant and

[17:18]

by not having the courage and the respect to look at ourselves honestly and gently. Thank you. Ashanti, I am now speaking from Kodo's office. My video froze, so I just ran down the hallway and jumped in here with him. Thanks, Kodo. You know, I didn't hear your very first words after the video. But I'm wondering, Ashanti, you know, you made it. You made it. You know, you were an engineer, you know. And as I understand it from what you've shared with me, you know, it was really kind of like you thought it was like your love of teaching. Sorry, your love of math. You thought it was your love of math and wanting to share that with kids and make a little side money that took you back into tutoring.

[18:22]

And then the tutors, whatever the organization you were working with, was just like, oh, wow, this guy's good. Let's make him an offer. And you said, when they invited you to join them full time, you quit. You quit the next week. You're like, uh-uh, uh-uh. I'm not teaching. My mom's a teacher. I saw her struggle. I'm an engineer. I worked hard to be an engineer, you know. So little by little, you know, there was this awakening, you know. There was this awakening of like, this is the work. And even, you know, even when you were saying, you were just like, no, no, no, no, no. This is not the work. This is not what I'm doing. Okay, I'll just do this for two years, you know. And here we are 17 years later and you didn't go back. to the money, you know? So, you know, you just spoke to it a little bit, you know, but what was it that called you back even when you kept not knowing, you know, and you didn't know what you were getting into or what the work was and kind of just keep taking one step after the other?

[19:36]

What was that that you were finally kind of like, okay, this is my work. I'm giving to it everything I've got. I think when the fire turned on, there was a kid named Lucas. The kid looks more like Miles than he looks like me. I'm in Pleasanton, California, and Lucas is having a hard time with algebra. So I'm working at this learning center. There's no other people... tutoring in that center that looks like me either. So Lucas has been going there since he was in the fifth grade. He's now in the eighth grade. I turned the corner to go help him with algebra. He's on my list. And he looks at me like, who? And what he says, the words he says is, you know, I have a test tomorrow. That's what he said. What his body language was saying is, oh, I'm in trouble now.

[20:40]

Who do they send over to me to help? I got a test tomorrow. My mom's going to kill me by doing this test. He was in his head. I said, I got you. First of all, he doesn't know me. Who am I? I'm this dude showing around the corner. He's never seen before. And he's trusting me to help him through this tough time with multiplying polynomials. Now, if you don't know about, if you don't like math, these words are going to make you cringe. But I love multiplying polynomials. I had to consider multiplying polynomials like some people consider crossword puzzles. I would just do them for fun. And I asked him one question. I said, can I show you a shortcut? Shortcut. Shortcuts in math? Man, what you talking about? There's all kind of shortcuts in math. He said, okay. I said, all right. I'll show him. And he says, that's it? I said, I don't know. I mean, you can make it harder if you want, but That's what the shortcuts are meant to do. And I let him, he said, I'm going to try it.

[21:41]

And he tries it. And then he looks at me and says, is that the right answer? I said, I don't know. Check the back of the book. I knew, but you know, my job is to make them. So he flips to the back of the book, you know, all the even numbers back there. And then it was like a movie. It was like, I saw, he didn't see, I saw a light come out of the back of the book with a rainbow and butterflies. And I saw, I heard a sound. It was like, it was like one of the bells that we heard in the beginning. It was like, oh, soothing. I was like, where's this coming from? Where's the sound coming from? Where's this, where's this light coming from? And it was my heart like on fire, like saying, this is what would make you happy for the rest of your life. To help someone go from not seeing it to seeing it. And that's what scared me. So when I ran, When they offered me a partnership in that company, I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no.

[22:46]

That's, no, no, no. I'm an engineer. I'm just doing this for fun. You know, I'm just here to make some travel money on the side. You know, I was not. So what kept me, what brought me back was that when the calling, I believe when the calling in your heart happens, you can ignore it. You can run. I ran. I'm clear I ran. I've quit. I was the best math teacher they had. I was doing SAT prep for that place. I was a math specialist there. But you know what? Something inside of me was like, that's not what I'm supposed to be doing. And what happened, I changed jobs because my office was upstairs. So I had to pass by this place every day going home knowing that the calling was happening every day. So I quit that company to go work at a company in San Jose. Now I'm living in Warner Creek. I'm now going to drive an hour and a half to San Jose every day. And if you know me and I'm driving, you know that doesn't make any sense. But I think when you're running from your calling, you do wild things.

[23:55]

And I did. And what it did is it made the calling stronger. Because every time I drove by that office on the freeway, I knew where it was at. I was like... The joy, because it was joy. It brought joy in my life. And I think that it's interesting when you would run from joy. But what if what brings you joy doesn't give you the lifestyle that you thought you wanted to live? Then it's easy to run. It's like, well, it doesn't match. And all the categories don't match. Joy, yes. Passion, yes. Purpose, yes. But it doesn't pay me. And so therefore, I thought that I was no longer supposed to live a lifestyle of just barely getting by. I thought that if I had worked hard, I should live a lifestyle where I can live a lifestyle that I dreamed of. Because I was never seeing a lifestyle being something that was heart-centered.

[24:58]

I saw amazing lifestyles being things-centered. Now that will you be what you can buy. I knew that as a teacher educator, I wasn't going to be able to buy what I could buy as a teacher. And so I ran. So I think the calling back, like when they finally caught me, I was at this new job. I was on a project in San Jose called Santana row. One of the largest projects in my career, over $700 million project as an engineer. That's a dream on your resume. Like, Oh my God, I'm going to be so amazing after this. And, uh, I go on a trip during this while I'm working on this project. I'll make the short story. And Santana Road caught on fire while I was away. Like the big building, the biggest building on Santana Road caught on fire. This was back 2002. Yeah, 2002. And I'm watching the news. I'm in Mexico.

[25:59]

And I'm like, that's my building. Like, what's going on here? Like, wait. what's going to happen when I get back to work? Now, the building still has to get built, but you imagine now there's a whole new situation. And I get back to work. It was almost like something was saying, there's not what you're supposed to do anymore. I mean, you could stay here and fix this up. And I think the calling on my heart was stronger. And so it kept bringing me back to like, I was trying to run. If you ask my... my ego part of my brain. It was, I was not trying to get, to go to that, [...] that program, but it was clear. And I became, when I went to the program day one in my classes, I was like, yeah, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And I had to let go, let go. So Ashanti, you know, then you started that work and what you've said to me is I didn't know what I was doing.

[27:05]

I was a first-year teacher. I was failing. I felt like I was failing the kids. And then from that and from you reaching out to the kids, actually, to the young men and saying, what am I doing wrong here? We're in this together. That work developed then into circle work and the holding space for these young men. And that evolved into this workshop That I believe, actually, even this morning, you were doing a taking off the mask workshop in Nigeria. And, you know, so it's and that evolved into this million mask movement, because I guess, you know, why play it small when you can, you know, take it around the world and bring this to so many people. So when you and I were talking about this Dharma talk. Yeah. you were like, let's take off the mask. Let's have them take off the mask.

[28:06]

And then I said, how many people were going to be here? And you were like, oh. It's like the real work is the conversation, is the unpacking. So how did you come up with this seemingly simple exercise? I'm keeping my eye on the time here. In about 12 minutes, we're going to pivot or open this up for other people to ask questions. But you keep meeting these young men where they're at. This is the work of a bodhisattva. You go to where they are to understand how to be with them in their maturing, in their awakening, in their becoming whole. And so I know you have developed this workshop, taking off the mask. Then you've done that, then turned into a board game.

[29:11]

Then there's been podcasts. Then there's, it's like you keep meeting them. Like, you know, but I think it all goes back to this kind of simple, what you call a simple exercise, which we just saw in the video. And, you know, this is what we do. This is our commitment. as Zen practitioners, you know, to really understand what's behind the mask, you know, what, what's the whole mask, you know, we imagine that mask covering our whole body, you know, like, what is this, you know? So what is, what's at the heart of it, you know? Yeah. You know, those young men in that room, when you, what you saw that clip, that was the first time we had done it. I didn't know it was going to work. Like those young men, they never opened up. Like when we come to circle, we check in. Everybody's a 10. We go from scale 1 to 10. 1 is the worst. 10 is the best. How are you doing? Every day. Everybody's a 10. Maybe a 1-9, but all of them are 10s.

[30:12]

And I'm like, yeah, no. No, you're not a 10 today. You're not a 10. You got kicked out of five classes. You only got six of them. How are you a 10? How is that a 10 behavior? How do you feel good about a day where everywhere you went, they kicked you out? Come on. And what happened was when I knew that they were going to be filming us with the documentary, I was like, well, they're going to resist. Now, I'm not against them resisting. They can resist. That's part of the truth. But I was like, what could I do with them so that they could open up and fight down some of the resistance? I said, what if they don't have to talk about it? So what we did when you saw them writing on their own paper, and I made them ball them up, the part that I was trying to do was get the paper out of their hands and hopefully get them mixed up enough that they get somebody else's paper. Because then they don't have to read their own. They're reading someone else's. And I think what you heard when the words, when you saw the young man reacting who was holding the basketball, I couldn't see...

[31:19]

that angle from where I was sitting. I didn't see it until I saw the documentary, literally, that he had that kind of reaction that happened. I knew there was stuff happening in the room, but I didn't see that. I saw something a little bit later, but here's what I recognized, is that we ask people to share three. Now we ask them three words in three words. What you heard me explain to them then was when I was making it up. I actually even printed masks for them. So what I do now is they draw their own And we have some three words on the front. If you think about it yourself, what are three things of yourself that you gladly talk about? You gladly let people see. And then if you think about what are the things you don't let people see? What's behind the mask? And what we see over and over again is that when people get a chance to explore, they recognize other people are going through similar stuff. Why are we not talking about it? Well, it depends on the type of communities you have around you.

[32:20]

Some people have communities where they can be open and honest, and some people don't. And you've always had that, and it makes it hard to believe that there are people who don't do that. And so what we've been able to do with this one picture, six words, is we've just started by saying, hey, it's simple. That's a simple thing to do. Just draw a little picture, write six words, right? But it's not easy, necessarily, to think about behind the mask stuff. And that's where we've seen this one. I'll show you this one. This is the one that we did at the school. I'll let you read the word, Nancy. This is the front of the mask. And I'll let you see the back. So this is the one word from the front. Can you see it? Let me go closer. I see happy, smart, outgoing, and caring. Yeah, yeah. And you probably see the words on the back kind of bleeding through a little bit. So I'm going to let you see the words on the back. You don't have to read them, just look at them. But you'll see it quickly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[33:25]

Written 18 times, it says anger. Yeah, yeah. We're so afraid to show our anger. Yeah. And we see that this is a teenager at a school. And this is one that came in the mail. This is, as a young man, and this is one that came in the mail. Funny, successful, strong. Oh, this is 65-year-old male from San Francisco. And then on the back of the mask, wrong, sensitive, kindness. It doesn't get to show. Yeah. And so this is part of the work. I hope people recognize, wait, did I write that? That's not mine, but I could have wrote those words or I recognize those words. I think that's what people, I think people want to be seen more fully seen. But what if the people you around never ask? Then you may never think it's okay to share what you're really going through.

[34:29]

When people, think about the last time somebody asked you how you're doing. I think we often use how you're doing as a greeting. When do we really use it as an inquiry? Like usually, how do you answer how you're doing? I don't know. Fine, good, cool. I mean, people have different answers in different circles, right? But what I see a lot of times is people use how you're doing and they're really just saying hi, but you respond back because you're supposed to respond back. What if you just slow down? What if next time somebody asks you how you're doing, you try this. You say, you know what? I am so glad you asked me that. And just watch their whole B and be like, wait, you're not doing it right. You're not doing it right. Maybe they'll be like, oh, please tell me. But what ends up happening is if they were in a process of just in our normal flow, and I'm speaking definitely in generality, it's because maybe people are used to like...

[35:34]

telling people really what they feel. But what I see with definitely the people we work with, good, cool, fine. So my job is to say, well, what's good? What's cool? What's fine? Because not to judge your good, cool, or fine, but to say, fine is different for me than it is for you. So how about you give me a little bit more detail? Then when they know that you really got to make time, that you really will listen, then they'll be willing to go deeper. You know, Ashanti, I know part of this board game that you've designed, part of it, you get more points if you go deeper, even though you don't really frame it that way. And there was, Miles was watching a video. I think it might have been part of the last 24-hour relay, actually, that was on Zoom. And it was two young men playing the game, asking each other the questions. And all I heard was, I saw them. They were so beautiful. Yeah. These young men are so beautiful.

[36:36]

I saw them, and then I heard one ask the other, what is something, what is a story you carry around with you all the time? That was one of the questions, like one of the 17-year-olds was asking the other 17-year-old. Like, this isn't a normal conversation that I hear 17-year-olds having. And then I heard, so I don't know how the game goes, but then I heard the other one say, I think I'm going to answer this one from behind the mask. What I was hearing was like part of this game is like you're teaching them or you're offering them a way to go deep in a safe way, right? I think, you know, titrating or something like that. I think that might be a term for it. But, you know, I'm looking at the time and I want to ask you this one last question before we open up to other questions, Ashanti. I know that you do a lot of commencement talks and that you speak all over the world.

[37:38]

And I know that hopefully some people in the sangha in this group will be signing up for the workshop this afternoon. But what is one thing that you would want us to hear this morning? What is one thing that you would like those of us, you would like us to take? from your work and what you've come to learn as the most important thing. I think the best way to do it is I'm going to read you a thank you letter. And this thank you letter was written to me by a young man at the end of the school year. I was a vice principal at a middle school. And the first letter he wrote me was not like this letter. The first letter he wrote me, an 11-year-old boy said he was done. I don't want to be here no more.

[38:40]

It's probably the most confused I've ever been and like not knowing what to do. So that day our relationship really took off. But this letter he brought me at the end of the year, it's probably the most cherished letters I have. And it says, I'm going to just read it with all the misspellings, but I think you'll get the idea. He's 11. He says, thank you later to Mr. Branch. Anybody show it? Can I show it? Yeah. Yeah? Maybe you'll let me show it. It may be great to see his writing. Yeah, I got to show him. I guess I could share. I'll let you see it, because it's 11-year-old writing, right? Can you see it? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you later to Mr. Branch. Dear Mr. Branch, I wanna thank you for being there for me. If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't probably, I didn't expect that.

[39:57]

I probably wouldn't be here right canal. I hope to see you next year because I need somebody to share my feelings with or how I'm feeling. And you is one of those people I can talk to. And I want to thank that for you. Thank you. And I think that what I want you to. seeing this is that maybe there's people who you've helped in your life that uh they may never write you a thank you letter they may never tell you how you've helped them through a transition through a rough patch they may they may never think that for you but i am i thank you for the people that you listen to without judgment people who you've built trust with I want to thank that for you.

[40:59]

Sometimes we do it and no one ever lets us know that we helped them, but man, when they let you know, I didn't expect this letter to hit me like that right now. I've read this letter more than a hundred times. Sometimes it hits me, sometimes it doesn't in that way, but right today it hit me because I think young people are often overlooked and I just want you, the last thing I'll share is this quote that says, the longest distance that most people travel is the 18 inches between their head and their heart. And most people get stuck in our heads. And so my, what I want to leave you with is I think we just need to be more connected to our hearts. And that's what I hope. That's what I hope. That's the... That's what I, yeah, I think that's the best thing I can say at this present moment.

[42:03]

Thank you, Ashanti. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered at no cost and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[42:32]

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