this podcast is offered by san francisco zen center on the web at sfcc.org our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you i'm spending every possible moment she's become one of my closest friends we uh nancy petran this is mati petran and uh i i got to spend the last five nights watching Mate. And on Sunday, I thought it was the last day where we're going to see each other. So we got up at six o'clock and went to Ocean Beach. And I watched her run in the sand. And she's very clever. She managed to bravely run in two inches of water and then run back to me to say, see how brave I am. So I hope you don't mind. I hope you don't mind. She's well behaved. Better than me. I saw that mom look of disproof.

[01:01]

She's a good puppy. So for people, I think I know everybody, and it's a great opportunity. And thank you, Abbott Ed and Rosalie, for allowing this to happen on such short notice. And I apologize, I guess in absentia, to the person that was bumped who was going to do a workshop on homelessness or people without a home. So I think that's rescheduled for August 8th and 12th. So, you know, please. Anyway, thank you. I'm just happy I was able to come tonight. And I just see this as more of a family talk, you know, which is why I thought Wednesday would be the time to talk. For people that don't know me, my name is Mark Lancaster. I'm married. My wife is around the corner, I think. Anyway, she's always nearby. When I was Shuso in 1997, she always... I had to get up at 4 o'clock because I didn't live here to drive here to wake everybody up.

[02:10]

And she always got up at 20 to 4 to make sure I got up. So, you know, so... I'll talk more about gratitude. So I'm leaving... So this is why I was coming tonight to talk. It's a, you know, I think a family goodbye. And so I'm feeling lots of emotions, you know, kind of a joyfulness, sadness, weightlessness, curiosity, fear. It's an interesting mix, not necessarily fear, but gosh, what's going to happen now? And, you know, 20 years ago, I could not have... stayed in that state even for a short time. And it's only due to the fantastic place Scent Center is, that places like this exist and people of such virtue come together to practice and share their lives that allow people like me to

[03:21]

I wouldn't say survive, that's too dramatic, but to flourish or to develop. So in a nutshell, I've had a fantastic time. I feel like I've had a full meal and now it's time to leave the table and do something else. But my intention is always, my heart's always going to be connected with this wonderful place. So I may even come back. I hear before the end of the year to work on a project or two, so we'll see. But, you know, usually the question is, what will you take when you leave and what will you leave behind? And I'll take all of these experiences. They're part of my body. They're part of what I am. And that includes all of you. You know, it's sometimes, you know, people feel they're part of community and they're not seen, but we're all seen. You know, we're, you know, this luminescence or natural intelligence takes it in like that.

[04:23]

And we have a deep take on everything. Even though our conceptual mind processes it very slowly, very cumbersomely, we get it right away. So you're all seen and all part of my life now. And anything that hopefully that I've done here that's useful to you, it's yours now. Sometimes I've given talks and people will say, that was really a great thing you said. And then I realize, sometimes I realize, I really didn't say that, or I didn't, they'll say, that's really changed my life. And I'll think, I really didn't mean that, but that's a great insight. So this space that we exist, you could call it sort of an intersubjective, realm of intelligence and development is rich. And we really need each other.

[05:27]

You know, we really need each other to do this practice. It's rare that someone can, I would say, I don't want to say gain insight, return to the source of true spirit to let light shine correctly. to not diffract the natural patterns of things, to return to this state. And it's been vital for me to have so many people help me, even when I didn't want to be helped, even when I thought I was better than help, that I had it figured out. It's very hard with our sense of separation in self, our ego, to work alone. We use the word Pacheca Buddha, which is a self-enlightened being, is very powerful, and yet it's somehow cold. It somehow loses the warmth of compassion and heart, which I find vital to the process of developing both compassion and wisdom.

[06:37]

They go together. And so maybe in the beginning, I lean more to the wisdom side, thinking I was going to have my unique experience. And I've had those experiences at the oddest moments. And yet even the great experiences of Akensha, you have to take into your body and live it out now. You still gotta live through some real confusion. We're funny creatures, we're multi-level projects. You know, sometimes I have this place and I go, my God, that's pretty good, Mark. And then later I find myself a six-year-old again. So we're all like that. You know, we're all working at many, many different levels. And we bump into each other in this process. And... in that work or in that openness or in the field, beyond conception, something begins to shift and turn.

[07:44]

Something that we can feel, but we don't quite know what to name. In fact, naming is very slow for what's actually happening. It's almost a molecular shift or a deep shift that's happening, a physical and psychological enactment. One of my favorite lines I just read was the Dalai Lama talking about endeavor from Shantideva's The Way of the Bodhisattva. And he said, right endeavor or effort is taking joy in doing what is good. So that's not being good. That's actually thriving in the outflow of goodness itself, wholesomeness. And that's a character formation. That's an activity that takes time. because we have so many fearful places, so many difficult places inside to work with. And I found it critical to have so many people. You know, the Christian one was asking, you shall receive.

[08:50]

And when I first came through the door, I said something like, you know, I've been very interested in Zen for a long time, and I've read deeply of the Tao Te Ching. But what I should have said was, help. It took me eight years to say that. So it wasted a long time. Help. Can anybody help me? But it was okay. You know, people were patient and they said, oh, the da de ching, you know, interesting. That's profound, Mark. Michael Wenger, who has been my teacher for 22 years, you know, It's just amazing how much I've put on him, you know, and the great patience to work with this. I told this story once, but I'll tell it again because I like it. It summarizes our relationship. Early on, maybe 1990, I got totally enamored of Wang Bo, a Rinzai teacher.

[09:56]

And I would go every day that I would talk, like the Wang Bo, Wang Bo. And then in the hallway, on a quiet day, I ran into him and I was just holding forth about another insight, you know, and Michael yelled, okay, get ready. He yelled at the top of his voice. Wong Bo could give up. Wong Bo, why can't you? He bellowed at me and walked away. So it was enough. Enough, youngster. Time to shed that and go out a little bit further now to where you're not so comfortable into uncharted terrain. So it was helpful for many years to have somebody offer that support. In some ways, I think our training is almost to go back to childhood and recreate it, starting over again with trust and recreate many of the experiences and that we mature and then we strike out on our own at some point.

[11:01]

But in the beginning, it's helpful to say, you know, help. I really don't know. You know, I'm really kind of confused here. So I came through that door in 1988. And that was a few years after the, you know, the uproar of the mid-80s when Zen Center had great difficulties. And I think at that time there were 18 residents here, maybe 19. And Paul Haller and Michael Wanger and Pat Phelan were the people that I saw all the time. I thought they were all abbots or something. I had no idea what anybody was. I didn't really care what anybody was doing. I just loved the place. And I had no idea why. No idea why. And I think that's important to trust that no idea why. We're always, especially in the West, I think we're very intellectual, very cerebral, and Not sure why, but this is really important.

[12:02]

And being willing to explore that in ways that are, from your point of view, maybe a little unusual. And then check in with common sense intelligence. True experts learn in their body how to behave, how to do things, but they can always talk about it. They can always tell you what's going on. True experts. Ah, this is how it worked. This is what happened now. This is what would be a good idea. The Buddha was a true expert. We say, it's all beyond words and speech, and Dogen in his fascicle dwelling in peace said, if that were so monks, why did this man talk for 35 years incessantly? Pay attention to that. No day went by that he didn't earnestly practice the Dharma and teach it every day of his life. So... We need each other and we need this space to cultivate together. And we need to trust, you know.

[13:13]

Trust in what you can't even conceive of. And that takes time to do, you know. I'm just exploring this area. As I become every year more foolish, which is interesting too, I find myself less able and more comfortable now. But this kind of entrustment is, come what may, I'll just keep going. I'll keep going. I think of the joy I've had here, and I was going to say, I've had great joy here. What a joyful place. And then I thought, But, you know, joy isn't happiness the way we think of it. Joy is the balance in difficulties and pleasure. It's a mature balance in creativity moving between these different places. There have been many difficult experiences here, you know, some of which I'm sure I caused.

[14:13]

In fact, I know many of them I caused because I was bumbling around and learning too. So... been important to learn how to listen one of the great lines or helps that i had i was going to share two just random people there's so many people that have done great things for me i mean all of you by the way and i don't mean that in a one of those grandiose ways some people i don't know but you know i was walking the other day and i thought my god you know I'm part of the cosmos. I once had gill slits and a vestigial tail and I'm made of bacterium and this endless thing that I am called in this incarnation Mark from Cleveland. How amazing and funny. So two great lines is an example of listening to people even when it's difficult is when I first came I always wanted to be the good Zen boy and help everybody.

[15:17]

I still have Do a little bit of that. I've worked on it a lot. Michael once told me, it's okay to try to make people happy as long as it doesn't make you happy. Don't cling to your own happiness. Pretty good advice. A good friend of mine who I'll visit in Olympia said, because I'd always do everything, you know, I used to come here every morning, and I was in the Doan Reel three days a week, and I was always cleaning and helping, and my friend Lynn Zanke said, You know, if you could love yourself a little bit more, people like me could love ourselves a little bit more. Can't you just be here with us? It's a great thing to say to somebody. Didn't know her that well. You know, great thing to say. And that's why we're here, to hear those things that can be a little painful when you hear them, you know, especially when I thought I was being so helpful. And it turned something, it turned me around. And then Michael, once, I was just thinking recently, I came from a strange, shattered family, and I said, you know, in many ways I feel like an orphanage.

[16:25]

And he said, I feel like an orphan. And he said, well, then make an orphanage. He always has these great statements for me. You know, when I'm feeling like, ah, I feel so alienated. Make an orphanage, Mark. You know, take that pain and turn it around. Work with it, cultivate it. Wonderful advice. I'm going to just talk a little longer, and I usually don't ask for any questions, but I think this is a time to ask for a few questions, and I'll still get everyone out of here by 8.26. Wednesday night is a work night for everybody. In my tenure here, you know, the... Most of my work has been in administration. I call myself a priest administrator, you know, so that my jobs have often been very difficult jobs. And I think it's fitting after some practice I had my first 10 years when I didn't live here, when I could just thrash around.

[17:30]

But at some point it was good to commit, and it took me time to commit and then to be of service. So this practice of mine is wisdom and compassion, doing human resources, managing the reservation office. How do you wisely deal with the complexities of people's work lives and their passions and their fears? How do you meet that? So it's been my personal practice. I haven't been sitting as much until, in fact, I sort of gave up a year ago instead of sort of half failing all the time. In the morning, I began sitting at night. And that was wonderful. I just said, instead of worrying about what I can't do, what would you want to do? That's a big thing, by the way. It's easy to find problems. What Zen Center can't give you, what do you want it to give you? What do you want to make of this place? Offer something. You have a voice. What do you want to do in your practice life?

[18:31]

Zen Center is a great place, but not a perfect place. No place is perfect. It's a pretty wonderful place. So that's been my life. And, you know, I know there's been a kind of a difficult, a difficult time. Mom, you know, the last seven or eight years, I've been in the more administrative wing in human resources. And I think, you know, there have been big changes in Zen Center and Zen Center. in a way Zen Center has gone through in the last 12 or 14 years, and especially the last seven, many changes in how we operate and how we live and work together. And especially in the city where we have really diverse, you know, our populations are different than the other centers, but we have 20 professional employees and 16 scholarship students.

[19:33]

15 room and board students that don't work for us but work outside. And then staff who are here in work practice training. So we have big circles all doing a lot of work while things are changing continually. And there's been some friction, I think. And I think that's actually good. Some friction is good. Some dissonance is good. But it's really important to realize there are no bad people here. on either of these wings, you know, there's a sort of a little bit of a separation sometimes in the church and then the administration, those administrators, you know, that guy Lancaster, he's always writing policies, you know, and he never sits enough, you know, and then the administrators, ah, those religious types, you know, it's like we've got to, the place is falling down, my God. So, so, I just hope people stay in earnest dialogue and see the heart in all of these people, even though they're different points of view.

[20:40]

And, you know, this mirrors, I've been thinking a lot about this. It's not just Zen Center. I think this is worldwide, this separation, you could say, between technology and science and art ethics and religion. The within or the consciousness sphere versus the objective sphere. sphere of measurement. And so it's a great opportunity to work with this. How do we thrive as an institution financially and spiritually? How does a Buddhist manager manage people? So you're not only managing to get something done, you're managing to get nothing done simultaneously. It's a very interesting problem. And I hope we can talk about, like, what are we changing and how is this developing? And really listen to each other. I've worried sometimes that people say, oh, that group, they're the problem.

[21:46]

And, you know, dependent origination says that all things are interconnected. The complexity of a society, of a surround, is like a tapestry. All parts are important. You don't just chop parts out. So even when we get scared, it's good to listen. And for both sides to open up to the complexity of this question, you could call it the world within and the world without. It's a real problem, I think. We've objectified in this external thing everything, and now we're objectifying our consciousness. And part of us is rebelling going, I don't want to do that. But I can't tell you why. There's no measurement for this. It just makes me unhappy. So there needs to be a dialogue in this surround.

[22:48]

And this is a great place to do it. It's a great place to do it, to take this on and explore it. I think much of the fundamentalism that we see in the world is a reaction to the objectification or the external world that's moved too fast and created terror, the feel of annihilation of something powerful but unspoken. So we need to stick together in earnest dialogue and reflect on our position or our point of view, you know? There's a residence retreat coming up. I just wanted to, before, I'm not going to go any further with this great split in the world between technology and art and ethics, consilience, or bringing this all back together. I think it's a vast project for the Western world, for the world.

[23:52]

And we should pitch in. That's enough. Next week, there's going to be a residence retreat. So I wanted to take the opportunity to just say a few words. came to me, you know, we've, like all temples, you know, we're a family and families have trouble. So we said, you know, it's been kind of, family's been kind of jumpy, you know. Any ideas or things we could do? And in discussions with Abbot Ed and Susan O'Connell, Nancy Petron was there, Annette Tova, we met and we thought a little bit. And we are going to have a facilitator come in named Adam Wolpert. to guide some discussions or talks next week. And this was kind of what we came up with, that before we, you know, he said, well, it sounds like you want to make some change, but you're not sure what you want to do. So before doing that, it seemed wise to, let's talk.

[24:55]

Let's, first of all, get all of the people that are important here And I said, if we did nothing more next week, then find a way for these people to begin to see each other. I mean, many people don't know who our employees are, and many employees don't know who the WPA students are. Very opaque here. To see the lives of these people, that you can see each other and what you're all contributing, and open up lines of communication together. This would be a great outturn for his students. facilitation for a day and a half. So it's going to be geared to dialogue. And a lot of it will be open to where people want to go with it. It's your Zen Center. It doesn't belong to other people. What do you want to make it? What's the story you want to tell here at Zen Center? So this is an opportunity to find a voice together.

[25:56]

So I feel very strongly about this. Adam has a good manner, so he's very subtle. He said, I think I could say one of the things, he said, geez, you know, your practice life in this city is very complex. You've got people doing lots of different things in one model for everybody. Maybe you need to look at a more complex model. Could be one of the talks. arises or we talk about it is a complex life working and living in the city you know so let's look at it together but the intent is let's make it better you know hopefully it's okay to say ah you know what happened to me a little bit of that's okay but now what do you want to do you know what do you want to do now and that's the vital part that's what Buddha Dharma is about what are you going to do

[26:56]

When will you stop, you could say, being a victim, and I don't want to be dramatic about that. You know, Isan Dorsey, one of my favorite koans is Isan Cohen, you get the karma you deserve, whether you deserve it or not. It's actually a very subtle koan. There you are. Lots of really tough breaks. Gosh, sin center just wasn't perfect. You know? Well... Remember why you came through the door. That's really important. And what do you want to do now? How do you want to make it better? And share that with people in a way that's creative, that moves the dialogue forward. Not one, not two means not me, not you, but in this space, something new arises that we had never considered. We call those things miracles. They're actually just part of evolution or karma or dharma, the complexity of this spirit unfolding ceaselessly.

[28:06]

And this is the work I think we do. So please come, in short. Ironically, I won't be there. It's the day I'm leaving. And my wife, I said, maybe I should stay two more days. And she said, no, we're leaving. And I can understand that, you know. Roger today met me at seven. And what did you say? He said, you're kind of not doing so well at retiring. But as of five today, I spent three hours with a lawyer about immigration issues. As of five today, that's it. And Monty was there too. Finally, the lawyer, she was barking so much, he said, Is that a dog? I had to put her in detention. So as you enter into these dialogues, and dialogues are important.

[29:09]

Monologues are often what we do when we project with ego, crazy ego. But dialogues are, let's explore this together. Let's explore and be really open. to the wonder of something new. It can be a little scary, you know? Like leaving home. But it's refreshing. It's what you were meant to do. It's your heritage. It's the deepest seed in you to be truly happy. And it flourishes in this open way that's a bit wild. when you say, what do I want this to be? What's my practice going to be now? Support each other. Care for each other. The old sutra says, be like milk and water. You actually are like milk and water.

[30:12]

Even when you think you're a part, you're not a part. I told somebody, Buddhists actually don't renounce anything because they know there's nothing to give up. They're just behaving sanely. They've just established fundamental human sanity. Why would they do that if you saw what the consequence would be? So, you know, don't give up on yourselves or each other. Even when the odds are tough, I feel like the Gipper now. This is great trust, great hope. Maha hope, great hope and trust, beyond hope, beyond reason. If you stay with reason, you might think things because you got something or it worked out. Gratitude is boundless. You accept the situation. Oh, 8.20, five minutes.

[31:17]

I think that's all I could say on this topic. I mean, I could go on. My name really is Endless Digression, but it's done. You get the gist. You really get the gist of it. Good people stay together. Promote sangha, promote each other. Take joy and goodness together. So has anybody got a final question for the old guy before I... And if you don't, it's fine too. Yes, ma'am. Could you share with us, I don't know how it could be brief, but what do you hope for your journey on the wonderful possibilities? Oh, sure, really briefly. Somebody said, are you starting a Zen center? I said, oh, it's too much work. I want to be a Zen corner, you know, sort of a pop-up Zen, you know. People come in, we sit together, we move around, we explore our lives. And we see what develops.

[32:21]

So out of that, something may happen. Maybe not. And then I'll be up there. And Nancy said I can be the dog sitter for a year in 2018. So Nadine's already planning it. She said, okay, we've got to get a house ready by then. So I'll live my life. No big drama. It's just like I'm going to go over there now. And there's a five and three-year-old. I'm an honorary grandparent. So I'll be watching a little girl named Hattie and a little boy named Enzo probably every day, hopefully. Be dropped off after school. Maybe sit with some people. Everyone's welcome. They'll send our address. Come on up. Bainbridge Island, right outside of Seattle. More don't know. Basically, honestly don't know. I know so little.

[33:25]

I even came here and I don't know why. And it's been 30 years. Strange. But I knew I had to come here when things got rough. I said, I'm calling Zen Center. Go figure. Never thought about Zen Center before that. Only heard bad things, actually. But I said, I'm going to Zen Center. And it all worked out fine. Oh, I'm sorry. I think I just went out there somewhere. I'm back. That's the best kind, by the way.

[34:27]

Those are the best questions. The questions are better than the answers anyway, by the way. Stay with the questions. Wipe away the answers. You'll have my Skype and my contact info. We've worked together. We're close. We're close in ways that our words don't reach, really. That's the beyond words of speech. My people. This, you'd be up here till midnight if I told you all this stuff. You know, how many, how many mistakes, but all the mistakes are the part I cherish. You know? I mean, when you said that, I always remember when I was learning to be a server in Oreoke, I was in such a panic.

[35:34]

It must have been 1989. I wanted to do it perfectly. And I forgot you don't grab the bootable. So Mel Weitzman was on the ton. And I latched on to his bootable. And he wouldn't let go, because you don't touch it. And I had completely lost it by that time. I was sweating and I was in a panic. So I kept pulling him. And finally he gave up when part of his zabutan had curled over the edge of the tan. He realized I was going to rip him off that tan. And he just went, okay. It's like, okay, big boy. Have at it. So many experiences like that are, you know. Usually it's mistakes. Paul Haller said this great thing. He said, it's not our successes, but it's our failures and our efforts to do better that really touch our hearts. And that's a really true statement.

[36:36]

It's that we make this effort, and it's so hard, and we just make a mistake. And we say, I'm sorry. I'll try again. Sorry, Mel. So I'll leave you with Mel. You can imagine Mel. If you know Mel Weitzman, he's tenacious. He's like a terrier himself. He wasn't going to let go. Okay, so good night. What? How did I end up with the dog? Oh, she loves you. He has the dog now. This is a love dog, you know. It's like... So somebody said, oh, she's going to miss you so much. I said, I think she'll be really okay. So... All right, you take good care of yourselves and each other. There's great human dignity in being who you are. Just being who you are. There's no better place to be, no better person to be, no better place to practice.

[37:42]

It's not being indulgent, it's just being honest. It's very rare when you can just... In fact, that's when I used to think Mel was probably the most boring person I ever met. He eventually gave me the precepts, and then I realized one day, oh my God, he's just who he is. Even when he's irritating, he's just irritating Mel. There's no pretense here. And I thought, this is a human being being a human being. That's pretty rare. So use that as a good model for yourselves, and treat yourselves kindly. For more information, please visit sfcc.org and click Giving. May we all fully enjoy the Dharma.

[38:42]

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