This podcast is offered by San Francisco Zen Center on the web at sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning. Good morning, everyone. So... Here at City Center, practice period has begun. How many of you folks who are sitting here are participating in the City Center practice period? Uh-huh. And how many folks are new? Maybe this is your first time or you've been here once or twice, but more or less. pretty new to the situation.

[01:00]

A lot more. So practice period is a time of more intense practice. Both zazen practice and working to encourage zazen mind in our daily activities. It's actually, there are certain things that go back a long, long way. For example, this robe, this outer robe, not the ones inside, but this outer robe, the history of it, this isn't Shakyamuni Buddha's robe, but he wore a robe like this. Less clothes underneath because it's hotter in India, but basically this goes back to the time of Shakyamuni Buddha. And similarly, practice period goes back to the early, early days of Buddhist practice.

[02:07]

Again, related to being in India during the rainy season, the people who were practicing out in the forest and various other places would come together for the rainy season and do a rainy season retreat. And this practice period that that we're doing now at City Center, is a descendant of that practice. The teacher who's leading the practice brigade is Ed Sadezen, who I think is maybe not here today because he's at Tassajara for a meeting. But I was speaking with him about it. Oh, by the way, is this... the correct alignment for this thing? Okay, good. I was speaking with him about it and he said that the text, one of the traditional aspects of practice prayer, not quite as old as going back to Shakyamuni Buddha's time, but something that we do here at Zen Center is often that during practice prayer there'll be a text.

[03:26]

that's studied a sutra or some writing that's kind of the main focus of the practice period. And this time it's a work, the title of which in Japanese is Genjo Koan, which in English translates in various ways. One translation is actualizing the fundamental point. This was written by a man named Dogen, Ehei Dogen. And what I want to speak about this morning is something else that Eihei Dogen wrote. Called Fukan Zazengi. I'll tell you what the translation is in a moment. But Dogen lived... That water is just too far away for me to get. I'd have to do a roll if I reach for that water.

[04:30]

Thanks. That's great. Oh, that's great. If you put the napkin on there, then it won't make any noise either. Thank you. So Ehei Dogen is a Japanese Zen teacher, Zen master who lived... in the first half of the 13th century. He was born in the year 1200 and he died in 1253 or two. And Dogen is among us Soto Zen people in this family of practice. Dogen is... highly, highly, highly, highly esteemed. Dogen is like Mozart. You know, somebody like Mozart or Dogen, you look.

[05:31]

Now, Mozart died when he was 35, 36. So Dogen lived a little bit longer, just to his early 50s. But you look at what... Mozart produced in music, you look at what Dogen produced in Zen teaching, written Zen teaching, and it's astounding. It's amazing, more than us mere mortals can imagine. So he really is the preeminent teacher of Soto Zen, which is the style of Zen that we practice. here at San Francisco Zen Center, he's really the preeminent teacher. He's really the preeminent teacher, or the preeminent teacher we could say of the last thousand years, Dogen. My own practice path has been most influenced by Suzuki Roshi, the man who founded, who came from Japan,

[06:40]

in the 50s and founded San Francisco Zen Center and we moved here to this building in 1969. This used to be, as some of you know, this used to be a place for young Jewish girls to stay if they were staying by themselves in San Francisco because they needed to be chaperoned and cared for. So actually in the grill work, Like in the grill work in the courtyard and the grill work in front, there are stars of David. It was a building that was commissioned by the Jewish community in San Francisco. This was, when we first moved here, this was the lounge. And there was a grand piano and carpeting and... We got rid of all of that stuff.

[07:40]

I don't know if that was such a good idea, but we did. There was a fireplace back there. We had fancy ideas, many of us Zen students, so we got rid of too many things, I think. We could have kept them. So Suzuki Roshi is really the teacher from whom my own understanding, such as it is, stems, who was my main inspiration. It was and is my main inspiration in practice, who he was, how he was, which is a very important part of Zen practice. not just some idea that we have, but actually how we behave, what we're like.

[08:41]

But also, oh, so Suzuki Roshi, so he is the lineage descendant of Dogen. So Suzuki Roshi had a teacher, and that teacher had a teacher, and that teacher had a teacher, and back [...] and back. through the centuries right back to the first half of the 13th century to Dogen. So Dogen is considered an ancestor of Suzuki Roshi and all of us who practiced in Suzuki Roshi's tradition. So there's a lineage connection, but then also there's a teaching connection. And Suzuki Roshi often would refer to Dogen in what he had to say. And now when I read Suzuki Roshi, even when he doesn't name Dogen, I see Dogen written all over the place, so to speak.

[09:50]

So I want to take up just four lines, I'm getting there, of... of the Fukan Zazengi written by this person Dogen. Fukan Zazengi. Fu means universal or always applicable. Kan is something like exhortation or admonition or recommendation. Zazen Za means to sit, so zazen, which is the central practice. Important pillar of our practice life means sitting zen. Sometimes people say sitting meditation, and that's okay, so that somebody gets the idea of what you're talking about.

[10:56]

but it's not really meditation exactly in the usual sense. So it's universal, recommendation, sitting zen, gi, fukan zazen gi. Gi means principle or form. So when you put all of that together, the title of the work is the universally applicable forms or principles of zazen. And an interesting historical note is that during Dogen's time, there was some controversy about, well, who is it that can practice? Who is it that can actually practice Zazen and attain so-called enlightenment or develop in Zen? Is it just the people who wear the black and the brown robes and sit in monasteries all day long, or is it just everybody? And Dogen, I think he varied somewhat from one period of his life to another.

[12:06]

But when he wrote the Fukan Zazengi, he was part of the universal, part of that universally applicable forms of zazen, part of the universal, referred to the fact that this is open to everyone. Anybody can, any of us, not just special people, doing special activities. But for any of us, zazen is a, this is the universally recommended way of doing it. So, by the time Dogen was 23 years old, you know, I remember when I was 23 years old, and mostly I was confused and distressed. I would say those are my two main states of being. When I wasn't getting into more active trouble than that, I was at least confused and distressed.

[13:15]

But Dogen, somewhat different, had practiced for many years by the time he was 23 and had developed a deep... a deep yearning to be settled, but didn't find anyone in Japan in his studies that he felt good about, so he went to China, which was not exactly like going to Mars, but it was really a much bigger journey than it is now. Went to China. He studied there for about five years. When he came back in 1227, the first thing that he wrote, his first work, was Fukanzazengi. Because he was trying to bring what he understood to be the central, the essential practice that he had found with his true teacher, as he framed it, that he had found with his true teacher in China.

[14:20]

He was bringing that back to the... to the barbarians, the barbarian Japanese. And now we're the barbarians in relation to the Japanese tradition. The Wild West. the universal recommendations of the principles of Zazen. Not uncharacteristically for Dogen's writing, there's a very interesting and unique combination, a very deep philosophical and spiritual reflection in the Fukanzazengi, along with extremely practical

[15:24]

details, like, you know, put your left foot on your right thigh, I don't do that, but your right foot on your left thigh, you know, exactly. Your nose should be in line with your navel, your ears should be in line with your shoulders, down to these very, very intimate exacting details in combination with these very lofty, deep reflections. And the beginning of the Fukanzazengi begins with some of these kind of deep philosophical questions. Why do we practice Zazen? What's the purpose of this sitting meditation? What's the purpose of sitting Zen? What's it for? Why do it? And also in that introductory section, he sets the stage by invoking... some of the great practitioners of the past, Shakyamuni Buddha, who sat for six years, nine years, sat for a long time, and Bodhidharma, who famously sat in a cave facing the wall for nine years when he first came to China from India.

[16:47]

Then after this kind of wide wide scope, he begins to bring it down to earth. So the folks who are here, the new folks, did any of you attend Zazen instruction this morning? Zazen instruction? Great, great. This is Dogen's Zazen instruction. This is what he does for the Zazen instruction. So when I've taught Zazen instruction, What I was taught to teach, I don't know if this was the version you got, was to speak about body, breath, and mind. First we talk about our posture, how we sit, different alternative ways of sitting, how we hold our hands, eggs underneath the armpits, et cetera, et cetera, you know, like that. And then breathing, normal breathing.

[17:48]

Not anything special, but paying attention to our breath. And then mind, what we do with our mind, our internal life. But Dogen starts with mind. And the first thing that he says in that regard is that our practice is not an intellectual activity. It's not about, he says... Therefore, you should cease from practice based on intellectual understanding, pursuing words and following after speech. Now, for many of us, and for Dogen too, don't pursue words and follow after speech. In the meantime, Dogen's works could fill up three or four of these bookcases. So he wrote a great deal. And for many of us, words and speech and Teaching, as expressed in words and speech, is very, very important, really gets us, hits the nail on the head.

[18:54]

But Dogen's instruction is that that's not what's at the core of our practice. What's at the core of our practice is our actual experience, much bigger than just some idea that can be expressed. in language. You should therefore cease from practice based on intellectual understanding, pursuing words, and following after speech, and take a backward step and turn the light inward to illuminate the self. Again, that's his instruction about what we do, what we do in the world. So this is very, this is right away very unique. Because usually what we do, usually what most of us do most of the time, is metaphorically, we turn the light outward on other people and other things.

[20:08]

And if we really want to get carried away, we can try to manipulate them. control them so that what we want to happen happens, you know? And what we don't want to happen does not happen. Good luck. This is very, very popular. Very, very common. Trumping around and trying to take forward steps and control our environment and focus on what's out there people, things, and so on. So the quality conveyed by this metaphor is that this activity called zazen is very different than that. It's taking a backward step. You step back and you turn the light in. You focus in rather than focusing out.

[21:13]

We could just stop right there. So let's try doing that for the next 20 or 30 years. This is very tricky for us to do. But there's more. That's actually helpful in how do you do that. Just one last comment on that is that I feel like this way, this take a backward step and turn the light inward is... We could really use a lot of that. We could really use a lot more of that in the world. This is a wonderful tonic for our usual activity.

[22:20]

of going out and focusing out on who's right and who's wrong and what we like and what we don't like, which causes, can cause, terrible, terrible things. It's useful to have this tonic, this remedy for our usual way. I dare say, just one more thing, that this taking a backward step also implies, or metaphorically, this is our receptive function, archetypally associated with the feminine. And I don't just mean women.

[23:21]

I mean the feminine, whether it's in women or men or any of us. Stepping back and receiving. Stepping back and participating rather than controlling, attempting to control. It's usually an attempt, a failed attempt. So not to follow intellectual, not to focus on just the intellectual part, and to take this backward step. And then he says, if you want to attain suchness, practice suchness without delay. Practice it immediately. And suchness is... terrible word to use in English.

[24:24]

It's like suchness, what does that mean, suchness? And attain is also a very problematic word because it actually gets, it's very confusing in Zen to talk about attaining. But I think what he's implying, what he means, what he's trying to say is that if we want to meet and understand and get with and practice with and participate with who we really are in a big way, the big sense of who we are, do it right away. Don't wait. That's why this style of practice is called sudden. It's not step by [...] step.

[25:26]

It's like, whoop, do it. Just practice that now. Don't worry, it's okay. You can do it. So I often think that this style of practice, you know, like learning to swim, you know, I've never learned how to swim for various karmic reasons that I could tell you about. which I will not, but anyway, I'm thinking of taking swimming lessons now that I'm an old man before I die to learn how to swim, but I don't know how to swim. But usually when you learn how to swim, people say, well, you know, you get in the shallow end of the pool and, you know, do this and do that. I assume that's what they tell you. But Zen practice is a little bit more like... come over here to the deep end of the pool. Don't worry. It'll be okay. Now jump in, and then the person who has not learned how to swim, you encourage them.

[26:28]

You can do it. Come on. You'll be okay. It's a little bit more like that than the step-by-step way. As you may have noticed, even if you just came here today or a few times, basically people say stuff, you know, and then they say, well, just sit. Now what? Now what do I do? What step is next? But the reason that there's this encouragement is, maybe unlike swimming, is that the sense is that what you need, you've already got. You already know how to swim. You just don't know that you know how to swim. You just need to be encouraged in what you already have already. And we don't have to wait until we're enlightened when that may come or may not come. Thank goodness we don't have to wait for that.

[27:30]

There's a wonderful phrase in the Zen lore that I came upon not too long ago. Let's see if I can say it. I start laughing whenever I say it. The horse arrives before The donkey leaves. That's a joke. It's a joke. It's a joke. The horse arrives before the donkey leaves. It means... It means you don't have to get rid of your delusions. Realization, awakening, whatever we want to call it, that way doesn't mean... Oh, I have to get rid of all this bad stuff so that I can get the good stuff. No, the horse arrives before the donkey leaves. It's fine for the donkey to stay. Donkeys and horses get along just fine together. We don't need to get rid of the donkey, which isn't so good.

[28:36]

It's just a donkey. Get rid of that. I want an Arabian stallion. We don't need to get rid of the donkey in order for the Arabian stallion to manifest. our own Arabian stallion, or any other kind of horse that you might like. Okay, so that was all the introduction. Now we get to the part that I actually wanted to focus on, but all of this that I said I hope, I believe, is actually relevant. So here are four lines from the Fukanzazengi, and they come more or less right at this point. Cast aside all involvements. Cease all affairs. Do not think good or bad. This is Dogen's instruction in the Fukanzazengi.

[29:40]

Cast aside all involvements. Cease all affairs. Do not think good or bad. Do not administer pros and cons. Cease all the movements of the conscious mind, the gauging of all thoughts and views. That's the instruction. So... Though I think what Dogen is saying is that the usual way that we get caught, that we get trapped in our mental, emotional activity, not just mental, really our whole psychological activity. This isn't every way that we get caught, but this is a good share of the deal, of the bargain.

[30:47]

It covers a fair amount of the territory. It's what we usually do, what we usually do when we're not trying to do something else. We get involved in involvements, cast aside all involvements, cease all affairs. We get very involved in our affairs. We think good and bad. We administer pros and cons. Let's see now. This afternoon, maybe I'll go and watch the Blue Angels who are performing. Did you know that? They're going to do the air show this afternoon. But, you know, there's going to be a lot of traffic. I better not. I'm just going to be stuck in traffic for two hours and not actually see the Blue Angels. On the other hand, if I go with my friends, then I don't mind being in traffic. On the other hand... On the other hand, that's administering pros and cons.

[31:50]

We're the administrator. Yes, what have you got to say for yourself? Now, what have you got to say for yourself? We administrate it. This is what we usually do in our life. Oh, and since I thought, well, it would be an interesting practice experiment, which I would recommend, for you to create your own additions to the Fukan Zazangi. feel shy, you can do it. So I created, cast aside all involvement, cease all affairs. Do not think good or bad. Do not administer pros and cons. Cease all the movements of the conscious mind, the gauging of all thoughts and views. Here's mine. Do not review the past or anticipate the future. Something else we often do. in our mind. Almost always. Do not review the past, including the plots of really good movies or TV miniseries that you have seen in the recent past.

[33:08]

Do not review the plot of Wolf Hall. and compare it, the TV miniseries, PBS TV miniseries, and compare it to the book by the same name, by Hilary Mantel. Don't do that. Do not anticipate the future, including what it is that I'm going to say to Darlene day after tomorrow, especially in relationship to what Darlene said to me last week. Didn't have a good response, but I thought of a number of really good responses. And not only that, but I'm going to say it in a particular way. This is what we usually do. This is our constant daily activity. And we do that when we're having breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And we do that when we're talking to people. And we do that when we're sitting still. So Dogen is saying in a very straightforward, clear and simple way, cease doing that.

[34:18]

Stop doing that. That's his instruction. If... If we follow his instruction and we cease doing that, then we have an opportunity to break the cycle of samsara. Samsara literally means wandering through. Traditionally it meant in a certain traditional Buddhist understanding, there are six realms, six destinies, six modes of being.

[35:22]

And one goes from one to another [...] to another. Sometimes you're in hell, sometimes you're in heaven, sometimes you have insatiable desires, sometimes you're fighting with people. All these... different things. Samsara is the world of cycling through, caught in that cycle of wandering through from one place to another. And again, in the traditional teaching, the traditional teaching is that the point of practice, the point of Buddhism is to leave samsara to be liberated from samsara and go to this other place called nirvana. They're not really places, but just to give you an overall picture. So if we cease from practice based on intellectual understanding and we turn the light inward and we do these other things and we don't... When we get involved in our affairs, we...

[36:33]

when we notice that, we return to our body and our breath. And when we're administering pros and cons, we cease doing that. Then we have a chance. Then there's like an open, like a crack in the door. And the light can come through. Then it opens up. That's when we so-called see emptiness. See emptiness. essence of samsaric life, the essence of this thing, this cycling through kind of life, the essential thing that it's composed of is exactly what Dogen is saying, stop doing. And what I'm saying, stop doing. And you can add your own, stop doing. That's what samsara is. Administering pros and cons, thinking good and bad, dividing things up, choosing...

[37:35]

discriminating mind, I like that, I don't like that, etc., [...] etc. What we usually do from the time we're born until the time we die. Pretty much all the time. Suzuki Roshi, one of the qualities of his way, of his teaching, was that he spoke pretty simply about things often. Pretty simple. And it actually may be because English was not his first language that he spoke as simply as he did. There have been people who have come through Zen Center, Japanese people, who have said when he talked in Japanese, it wasn't as good as when he spoke in English, even though he would always apologize for his poor English.

[38:38]

He wasn't fluent, deeply fluent in English, the way he was, say, in Japanese. So he would just say, don't stick to things. Don't stick to ideas. Don't be caught by ideas. Don't stick to your limited karmic perspective. So the frog, the frog at the bottom of a well, there's a frog looking up from the bottom of a well. And when the frog looks up from the bottom of the well, the frog sees a circle, a blue circle. And the frog says, that's the sky. The sky is a blue circle. about that big. I see it. That's called a partial view.

[39:45]

That's called a karmic view. It's karmic because the reason the frog thinks that the sky is a blue circle has everything to do with the infinite number of very particular circumstances that led to that frog being a frog being at the bottom of the well at that time. And that's just the same for all of us. We all have karmic circumstances, which is the infinite, infinite, more or less endless, maybe there's an end, but we don't know about that, infinite, endless causation that brings us to be Curtis, Caitlin, Steve, Zazen, you know, whatever day this is, October, is it October 21st? No. I consider it good if I just get the right month.

[40:50]

I feel like I'm doing good. October 10th, 2015, you know, anno domine, 2015 years after. the death of Jesus Christ. This is all extremely particular, down to the number of hairs on our head, down to the cataracts in our eyes, down to everything. Each of us has our own particular, a lot of shared karma, human karma, for example. Human karma is like hearing, right? Humans hear from this, deep bass up to this high treble, right? You have a certain range of hearing. But we know that that's not what is hearable, right? If you get a dog whistle, because dogs hear over here, past our ability to hear. That's karma. That's our karma. That's human karma. We have this range of hearing.

[41:53]

So the problem with that is when we mistake... the partial view is the whole thing. If we think that's all there is to hearing, that even though dogs have ears, they don't actually hear, or they can't hear these high-pitched things, that is called a stuck, a karmically stuck view. And then we have, so that's human karma, right? And there are many things that are human karma. And then there's our cultural karma and our family karma and our individual karma and our educational karma and just gazillions of factors that all contribute to the particular person who we are right now. And that's fine. That's wonderful. And it's quite beautiful. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful expression of the infinite nature of the way things are.

[42:55]

But if we are limited to that, if we think that's all there is, then we get into big, big trouble. If due to our human karma we think, oh well, you know, we can just take advantage of nature. Well... You can do that for a while, but that limited view kills you. We might all, probably not in our lifetime, but we've got a fair chance of destroying the planet due to sticking to our understandably karmic limited perspective. And not recognizing... Oh, this is just a limited perspective. This is not the whole thing. So this is all behind cast aside involvements.

[44:11]

Cease all affairs. Do not think good or bad. Do not administer pros and cons. Cease all the movements of the conscious mind. Those instructions give us the opportunity to release, to see beyond this limited karmic perspective. So Suzuki Roshi, in one of his talks, he said, we sit in the midst of great space. I think that's what he meant. We sit in the midst of great space. We sit when we sit or when we invoke sitting mind even if we're riding a bicycle or driving on the freeway or balancing our checkbook. I know people don't balance checkbooks anymore.

[45:13]

I'm showing how old I am. Whatever we're doing. We can invoke this mind. This mind of great space. Great space that we are sitting with. We're not controlling it. We're not manipulating it. It's not under our dominion. Foolish idea. But we get to participate in it That's harmony. That's harmony. That's harmonizing body and mind and harmony of the sangha and harmony of the big sangha, the mahasangha of all beings. We sit in the midst of great space. Dogen in another work of his said,

[46:14]

The entire universe is our true human body. And I mention that for a couple of reasons. One is because I came upon that, I first heard that a long time ago, 20, 30 years ago, a long time ago. And I did not know what he was talking about. What do you mean the entire universe is the true human body? I mean, aside from a hallucinatory metaphor, what is that? What is that? What is that about? I think that's what it's about. I think what I'm talking about is what that's about. The entire universe is our true human body. That's big mind. That's a big way of understanding things.

[47:21]

Our entire universe is, no, excuse me, our true human body is also this particular karmic being. We don't escape that. We don't try to get rid of, you know, the donkey and the horse. We don't try to get rid of one to get the other. We don't have to get rid of one to get the other. Our true human body is the particular people that we are right at this moment that we have to take responsibility for and act out of, act from, in relation to those we know and to the world and whatever. And our true human body is, and the entire universe is our true human body at the same time, not privileging one over the other. Zazen practice and Zazen mind is a way of bringing this other perspective which is quiet.

[48:28]

Katagiri Roshi used to say, Zazen is very quiet. And he didn't mean just that we didn't talk. He meant this perspective, this understanding. Sitting in the midst of great space understanding, it's easily... it's easily not seen, easily ignored, easily not noticed. So our practice A is to notice that. Give us the opportunity to notice it. The instruction is to notice it. And B, which is important also, very important, is That doesn't mean you get rid of the common way of understanding things. So A is to see great space, and B is not to privilege great space or regular old space.

[49:32]

Not privileging one or the other. We have to take care of both. That's why Dogen's instructions I mentioned earlier, often he would say these very gigantic philosophical things, great space kinds of things, and then he'd say, You know, when you chop an onion, hold it this way and do this and don't hold it that way, you know, that's our individual karma. That's our small way. We take care of the small mind, small way, small life. It's not really so small. It's actually gigantic. And it's not really so gigantic. It's actually just very specific and very much you and me as we are. So, oh yeah.

[50:38]

I'll just mention briefly, there's a whole other thing I was going to get involved in. Disobeying, cease all involvements. I was going to get involved in, well, I'll say a little bit about it, which is another thing that Suzuki Rishi used to say sometime. He didn't say these exact words, but he'd say, okay, Now that you've heard my Dharma talk, forget it completely. You hear that kind of thing. Don't pay attention to anything that the guy behind the curtain... Don't look at the man behind the curtain in The Wizard of Oz. It's something like that. Don't listen to me. What he would say is, don't stick to anything, including don't stick to my words. So this is kind of a more subtle point here. Because I think we have to say about Dogen also that we shouldn't stick.

[51:42]

He's telling us don't stick, don't stick, don't stick, don't think good or bad, don't administer pros and cons. We have to not stick to Dogen either. Because as soon as we hear do not think good or bad, we immediately think, not thinking good or bad is good. Thinking good or bad is bad. I should do the good thing, not the bad thing. Right? Your chuckling tells me that I'm not the only one who... As soon as we try to cast aside all involvements, we're tremendously involved in the project of casting aside all involvements. It's just like that with all of those things. They all sort of turn on themselves completely if you stick to them.

[52:44]

It has that quality too that even the teaching we don't stick to. And I thought I'd say, I thought I'd say in conclusion, so then what are we supposed to do? If following the instructions means that you're not following the instructions, what are you supposed to do then? So the best answer is, The best answer to that kind of question, if you're with me so far, you may have pulled over a while ago when I'm resting. It is fine.

[53:47]

Sometimes I bicycle and I do these things called centuries, which is cycling 100 miles in a day, which is ridiculous. As people are whizzing by me, much younger than me, with lighter bikes. I said, well, I think I better pull over, take a break here. Anyway, if you're with me so far, so what do we do then? So the traditional answer is, that's a good question. Cop out. The traditional answer is, So there are stories about this. There's one Zen story where the student has some very earnest question. I don't remember what it is, but something earnest, like, what is the meaning of the 10,000 things?

[54:48]

Something that a Zen person would say. And he goes to this Zen teacher. He says, what is the meaning of the 10,000 things? And the Zen teacher says, you know, I have a headache today. And, you know, I'd be happy to talk with you about it, but I just don't feel good. Could you just go ask that other guy over there, you know? Then he goes to the other guy. What is the meaning of the 10,000 things? He said, well, did you ask the first guy? He says, yeah, I asked him, and he said he had an headache. Oh, okay. So what is the meaning of the 10,000 things? You know, I'm really busy. I've got so much work to do. I just don't have time to... kind of really respond in the way that would be appropriate. Et cetera, et cetera. It goes on like this. Aside from the joke aspect of it, it actually is true that each of us, as much as you care to investigate this kind of crazy issue, this kind of practice, then each of us has to kind of

[56:03]

Figure it out. Not exactly figure it out, but work with it. Live with it. Practice with it. Thank you. The sweet bird of electronic. Oh, I wasn't quite done. I'm sorry, I fooled you. It may be helpful to understand that the instructions are about non-attainment. Suzuki Roshi's expression, don't have a gaining mind. The instructions are about, and our practice is about non-attaining.

[57:03]

Non-attaining, really non-attaining. non-attaining as a really great attainment, but actually non-attaining. And that resonates with this backward step and resonates with a way of understanding practice as something for us to participate in, be in harmony with. Not instrumental. Not a technique. Zazen is not a technique to get from here to there. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center.

[58:12]

Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, please visit sfcc.org and click giving. May we all fully enjoy the Dharma.

[58:31]

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