This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. We often say that to study the way of Buddha is to study the self. To learn the way of awakening is to learn the self. Today, I would like to say it a little differently, to learn the Buddha way is to learn about stories.

[01:06]

There is a self, and the self is a story. It's not that there's no self, it's that it's a story. Or it's an ongoing storytelling process, an ongoing process of storytelling. To learn about that process is to learn about the life of Buddha, When I'm in this valley, people don't very often come up to me and say, where do you live?

[02:20]

Sometimes after a lecture, after the talks, people say, do you live here? Not everybody knows that I've been living here for a while. But when I'm outside, people sometimes say, where do you live? They say, I live at Green Gulch Farm. And they say, what do you do there? So I usually tell them a story. And I don't tell the same story every time. Well, it's a story about what I do, Could it be a different story every time? Not should, but it is. So I'm telling about what I do, but I tell them different things each time.

[03:23]

Like sometimes people don't ask me where I live, they just say, are you a martial artist? When they see me outside. And I say, yes. And they say, what kind? I say, Zen. Or Buddhist. And they say, how is Buddhism martial arts? And then I tell them a story about how Buddhism is martial arts. There's lots of martial arts stories in the Zen tradition about Zen practitioners practicing martial arts. Have you heard those stories? You haven't? Want to hear one? So once upon a time, there was a Zen practitioner and a samurai came to see him.

[04:30]

And she said, Master, would you teach me about the meaning of heaven and hell? And the master said, well... I think I can. You're too arrogant and stupid. It would be a waste of my time. That was a story the Zen master told this samurai. The samurai became very angry and pulled out her sword and was about to arm, the Zen master, and the Zen master said, this is hell. And he set his sword down and with tears of gratitude bowed to the teacher, and the teacher says, this is heaven.

[05:38]

So this is a story of martial arts, of rendering the spirit to nonviolence by waking it up. I heard stories about Zen practitioners when I lived in the middle of this continent around 50 years ago. And when I heard and read some of those stories, I thought, when I saw the characters in the story, I thought, I want to be like that person in the story.

[06:47]

a child and I heard stories about Jesus, I didn't think I want to be like Jesus. I thought Jesus was a good teacher, but Jesus seemed too advanced for me. Like the walking on the water and the crucifixion and the resurrection, I thought, I didn't think I want to do that. But the Zen stories, I thought, that seemed attainable or realizable. the way they acted, and totally cool, yet a realizable cool. But in the stories, I didn't see the instruction about how to become as compassionate and flexible as they were, and fearless and humorous as they were. But then I found out that almost all the people in all the stories, they did the same practice. And they called the practice sitting meditation.

[08:02]

So I thought, oh. And then I found out that it was actually quite simple to practice it. All you need to do is sit and meditate. And then by doing that, you'll become really cool. Or at least that's what I heard. So then I tried to sit and practice being cool. And I really enjoyed it. But I had other things to do. So sometimes the space between these training sessions was far apart. Like weeks or more. And then I got the idea, well, maybe actually it should be like a regular thing rather than just when you happen to have time. Maybe it should be part of your... Maybe if you did train the more, that this exquisite coolness would come with more likelihood.

[09:19]

So I tried to do it more regularly, but I actually had a hard time doing it regularly. And I actually heard stories about people who did it regularly. And those were the stories about the people in the stories. They did it regularly. They weren't just lucky. They were diligent in practicing meditation. And then they just got really cool. And they could respond so nicely to people who asked them if there are martial artists or who demanded various things of them and insulted them and so on I just told you a story about myself so then

[10:24]

I came to visit the newly established monastery in the mountains of California called Zen Mountain Center at Tassajara. I went to visit there at the beginning of the... at the end of the first practice period. I went to visit because I thought... It would be good to go to visit, so I did. And then I thought maybe I should move to San Francisco and practice with the Zen Center because maybe if I practiced with a group of people who practiced every day, I could be regular because I couldn't be regular on my own. So I came to practice there. And sure enough, living with a group or near a group, it wasn't so difficult to practice every day. And I also thought, if I could talk to some of those people in those ancient stories and I said, I want to be like you, they might have said to me, why do you want to be like me?

[11:52]

They might have said that. But I couldn't talk to them, so I didn't say that. But if they'd asked me, why do I want to be like them? I would say, because of your stories. Because of your stories. Your stories about you are really attractive. And they might have said, oh, okay. When I came to San Francisco, there was a group and there was also a teacher who taught this method of training of sitting meditation. And one of the main ways he taught was by telling stories. He taught the meditation by telling stories. So... The meditation, sitting meditation, is actually to sit upright and study yourself. Learn about yourself. Because sitting upright or being upright and studying yourself, as you learn about yourself, you learn the Buddha way.

[12:54]

As you study the story of yourself sitting on a cushion, as you study the story of of your sitting in a room with other people, and your body breathing, and your attempt to pay attention, as you study that story, you learn about yourself. As you study the story of, I didn't meditate very well today, you study the story of yourself. As you study the story of, I sat today and I meditated well. As you study that story, you learn about yourself. So when you practice Zen training, you spend some time sitting in a room quietly with other people. At your place in the room, you're sitting there, and while you're sitting there, like it or not, stories are being told. I'm meditating here.

[14:02]

I'm having trouble staying awake. I have some discomfort in my knees. I'm scared. I'm ashamed. I'm doing really well. I'm an excellent student. I'm practicing with all these people, and I'm sitting here in order to support their happiness. These are stories which occur in the minds of meditators when they're sitting together. And, of course, these stories go on forever when they're sitting here quietly. Each person... has a consciousness, and in that consciousness, there are stories being told. Every day, many new stories are told all day long, and so when they come in this room, the stories go on. And the stories are different in the early morning. Some people don't like to come in the morning because the stories are so quiet.

[15:04]

They'd rather come later when they're more interesting. Some people like the quiet ones so they come in the morning and they don't come in the afternoon because they don't like the afternoon stories. Some people come all the time because they don't like any of the stories but they're committed to learn about them because learning about them is learning about the Buddha way. So one can do that when one's sitting upright, quietly. You can study your stories and learn the self and learn the Buddha way. And again, while you're sitting there, one of the main stories is, this is really hard to sit here and study these stories. This is really not very interesting. So then you go off on some story, which is called not studying stories, which is called just being caught up in stories and being really happy or miserable, but not studying.

[16:10]

If you don't study your stories, then you don't study yourself. If you don't study yourself, you don't study your stories. And if you don't study your stories, which are going on anyway, then you miss the chance of studying the way of Buddha. If you don't learn about your stories, if you miss the opportunity of learning about your stories, you miss the opportunity of learning about number one. the self. Learning about number one, you forget about number one, and you remember enlightenment, which actually you forgot for a while. I'm not going to push this thought away.

[17:14]

Here it is. I heard that Freud said that somebody, I think maybe human beings, are powerful, isolated fantasy machines. Powerful, isolated fantasy machines. And when I first heard that, I thought, that's a very interesting statement. And then as time went on, I thought I would change it to powerful, interdependent fantasizing machines. And one of the main fantasies of the interdependent fantasizing organisms, one of their main fantasies is that they're isolated. They fantasize that they're separate from other beings. They fantasize that their stories are separate from other people and their stories. Have you ever seen a fantasy like that?

[18:20]

That your stories are separate from other people's stories, or your stories are different from other people's stories and not connected? So I would say we are powerful, interdependent, storytelling living beings. So one way to study it is sit quietly and look at the stories, look at the self. The other way is go and meet a teacher and share your study of your stories with somebody else who witnesses your observing of your stories. There's two contexts. One's kind of intra-psychic, looking inward to your psychic storytelling operation and learn the self. and learn the Buddha way, okay? The other one is, go meet another storyteller and tell your story with somebody witnessing your storytelling.

[19:32]

See how that study of the storytelling goes. Does that make sense? Now, if somebody outside this valley asked me, where I live, and I say, I live here, they say, what do you do? So, again, I can say, well, I practice friendship. I practice friendship to humans and non-humans in that valley. What do you do in that valley? I aspire to practice friendship with the humans and the non-humans in the valley. What nonhumans? Well, maple trees, particularly Japanese maple. Grass, bamboo, wisteria. We just recently made a trellis for the wisteria to climb on so it can go south.

[20:42]

It wants to go south, it needed some help, so we made it a trellis to play on. I practice friendship with wisteria in this valley, along with friendship to humans. Now, I'm not... Yeah, so I guess, actually, now that I think I was going to say, I have trouble hearing the story of wisteria. But now I just thought, well, actually, I wouldn't say I'm a wisteria whisperer. But I did sense, I thought I heard the story from the wisteria. We... We want to go south. It seemed to be like reaching out towards the sun in midair. And then it would flop. And then it would say, if you're not going to support me, go south. Well, I'll go west and north and east then. And it was climbing all over the place. But it kept, it really wanted to go south. So now I listened to it.

[21:44]

Other people could see it too. We listened to the wisteria. tell a story of, can I go south? I want to go south. And also, I try to be friendly to gophers. And moles. And a cat that comes into our yard and kills everything that it can. Day before yesterday, it killed a rabbit. And I came out there and I saw the rabbit quivering after it hadn't been killed yet, but its throat cut. And I just left it in peace. I think it was quivering partly because it saw me. It was scared. It was in the sun, so I just let it lie there. And between when I saw it then and I came back, somebody came and ate it.

[22:49]

So I try to be friendly. I try to practice friendship with the living beings, human and non-human, that live in this valley. That's what I might say to somebody if they ask me. Another thing I might say to them is, I practice meditation with people in the valley. I usually don't tell them. I study myself in the valley. I study my stories. But I guess I could try that. I listen to other people's stories. And I witness them telling me stories. And sometimes people say, I know you don't want to hear my stories.

[23:51]

It's not that I don't want to hear your stories, I say, but I'm primarily interested in how you study your stories. And I'm primarily interested in when you tell me your stories, are you aware that you're studying yourself? That's my interest. And also, if you're aware that you're studying yourself, are you studying yourself in a friendly way? So if I watch people tell stories, and sometimes I feel like they seem to know they're talking about themselves when they tell that story. And then at a certain point I feel like, do they know that they're, I mean, do they understand that they're talking about themselves? And sometimes I say, is that about you? Like somebody might tell me a story about being unkind to their wife or their husband. And I feel that they tell me that they're unkind and I feel that they're really, really there with feeling that pain of that unkindness and I feel like I think they're studying themselves.

[25:04]

I just witnessed it. Then they might tell me about their wife's father and that he went to medical school someplace and he had a great teacher who you know did all these wonderful things and you know and started all these excellent organizations and then I might feel like is this person talking about themselves I might say is that you are you talking about yourself and they might say oh I guess I lost track of studying myself so we come back to or they might say yes this is about me and I say tell me how Tell me how. Tell me how your wife's father's teacher in college tell me about how that's you. I'd like to see that. That's right, it is.

[26:09]

It is. So one of the cutting edges of studying the self through stories is to look at Are other people's stories yourself? Are your stories about other people yourself? Are other people's stories about their life and what's their way? Are they about yourself? Are other religions Buddhism are now we have Islamic history extremists Christian extremists and now we have Buddhist extremists who are I hear the story of Buddhist extremists who are being cruel to Muslims are these stories about us

[27:24]

are these stories teaching us about our helping us learn about the self so we can forget the self and be enlightened by everything and it's pretty hard at that point when you hear stories of cruelty when the story of cruelty appears in your mind is that your story is that about you or is that about somebody else who's separate from you. If you hear stories about somebody who you think is separate from you and they do something really cool and really compassionate, then you might think, I want to be that way. Or, I feel so encouraged that that person who's not me is so kind.

[28:36]

But if you hear a story about someone who is really cruel, it's very hard to understand how that's a story about yourself, how that's your story. Even the meditation teacher, when the meditation student's coming to see them and tells them about their difficulties, it may be difficult for the meditation teacher to understand that this beginner who's having these problems is telling them about themselves. the entire world is telling you about yourself.

[29:49]

That's a story. About stories. That all the stories in the world are telling you about yourself. How can you be friendly to the stories, to all the stories in the world, so that you can understand that they're about yourself, that they're teaching you, they're helping you learn about yourself. All the stories in the world are helping us learn the Buddha way. And that's very hard to listen to sometimes. Somebody might say to somebody who lives here, perhaps one of the senior people, they might go to one of the senior people and say, what you people are doing here has done me no good.

[31:20]

I've been practicing for quite a while and you've done me no good. It's been a waste of time for me to be here. As a matter of fact, you people are really discouraging me and making my life more difficult. You're a bunch of hypocrites. can go on but anyway somebody might say that to us who's been here and experienced this place and when we listen to that it might be difficult to hear to understand oh this is me this is myself I'm listening to and to be friendly to that story which I can barely remember this is I'm hearing about myself this person who's having a hard time is teaching me about myself, helping me, giving me an opportunity to be friendly to myself by being friendly to what they're telling me, helping me learn the Buddha way.

[32:27]

all these stories of horrible violence that we hear when we hear them it's very hard to hear them and say oh this is a story about me of course that person is not me but in fact that person is me both they're not me and they are me this is my story and this isn't This isn't I've already got down. What about it really is? And if it isn't, be friendly to it isn't. And being friendly to it isn't will lead you to be friendly to it is. If it is, being friendly to it is will liberate you from it is and it isn't. We have many, many, many stories for us to think about in this tradition.

[34:00]

Stories of ancestors who studied stories. Stories of ancestors who studied themselves. All these stories of ancestors of our tradition, we study them, and when we first start studying them, we think they're stories of, well, we usually think they're stories about somebody who lived in the Tang dynasty. Lived thousand years ago in China. And these are stories about somebody else. But it is revealed that these stories are to help the later traditions, the later practitioners realize that these ancient stories are there so we can understand these stories are about us. That there are stories. You look worried. I look worried.

[35:03]

Now you don't anymore. Now I'm not worried anymore. time is it? 5-2? So in the midst of storytelling, we can study the stories. In the midst of telling stories and revealing ourself, We can study these stories and realize what the self is.

[36:09]

And the self is a story. It's not something less than a story. It's not even a little bit less than a story. It's... less than a story and not more than a story. And then it's not less than a story and more than a story. Moment by moment, the self is a story which has infinite possibilities within its limited scope. Within its enclosed space of the story, there's no limit within the limit. of the story, and the selves know more than that. But we think it is because we haven't studied the story with enough friendliness. We've got the stories.

[37:16]

We can study them or not. If we do study them, we're on the path to perfect awakening. If we don't study them, They're still there, available anytime we want to start studying. But we're missing a chance if we're not studying the self right now. We're missing a chance if we're not studying the story we're telling right now or the story that's being told right now. And again, a key factor in the awakening of the story is to realize that other people's stories and your stories of other people are yourself. So sitting meditation is also sometimes called the meditation on the self. Sitting meditation is meditation on stories.

[38:21]

One of my friends comes to see me, and every time he comes, he tells me his name, I know his name, but he says it again because he learned that form. My name is so-and-so, and my practice is koan introspection, he says. Koan introspection. Koan introspection. In other words, he introspects on Zen stories. He looks into himself and sees the stories inside himself, which are stories... about the tradition. But he's actually looking in himself at the stories. That's his practice. He's studying stories. So Zen practice is to study the story of the self moment by moment and thereby become free of the self as anything free of the self which is imagined to be something more substantial

[39:26]

than a story. Or some people think their self is less substantial than a story. They negate their story too much. They negate their self too much. And some people don't. Some people substantiate their self too much. But the self is just the right amount of insubstantial. How insubstantial? Just like a story. That's all insubstantial. and by studying this story we have the chance to realize that everybody's story is our story and this is what saves the world when we can go to the other stories those other stories that are so horrible and realize that they are teaching us about ourselves and offering us a chance to wake up from our stories.

[40:29]

And again, I think I really have a hard time with this, but this is what I'm proposing to myself in your presence. This is what I'm proposing myself in the presence of you who are myself. This concept is not only offered within the practice of Zen, that studying stories is a way to study the self, is a way to learn the self and forget the self and be enlightened by all things. It's also present in other traditions, even some fairly new traditions like 12-step tradition. There, too, they tell stories in order to realize that other people's stories are your stories.

[41:34]

They listen to stories of other people to realize that their stories are our stories. This is a way. This is the Buddha way, too. This is the Bodhisattva way, too. Once upon a time, there was... I heard that there was a man named Baal Shem Tov. He's a Hasidic rabbi. Lived in Poland, I think. Is that right? Sometimes called the founder of Hasidism in Poland. And Baal Shem Tov, when he was about to die, he... assigned various aspects of his teaching, of his practice, to his disciples. So he gave this teaching to this disciple and so on.

[42:40]

And when he came maybe to his youngest disciple, he said, my assignment to you is to travel around Europe and tell people stories of my teaching. And this youngest rabbi was, I think, a little bit sorry to have this assignment. He felt it was the least important of all the assignments that the teacher gave. But the refrain of the story that I'm telling you is, when Baal Shem Tov gave you an assignment, you did the assignment. So he did his teacher's assignment. And after his teacher died, he did travel around Europe telling stories about his teacher. Telling stories about his teacher's teaching. And I guess his teacher didn't say how long he should do that.

[43:48]

But anyway, at a certain point, after he'd visited many countries, He thought, I think I've done this enough. He didn't seem to be enjoying it that much. He wanted to go back to Poland and do something else besides telling stories about his teacher. My teacher did... did not tell me to tell stories about him. I shouldn't say my teacher. Suzuki Rishi, our teacher, did not tell me to tell stories about him. But he didn't tell me not to either. So I do. And people say, would you tell us a story about Suzuki Rishi? I say, okay. And today I told you the story that Suzuki Rishi taught Zazen, taught meditation by telling stories about the ancestors as a way to understand how to study the self.

[44:59]

Did I tell you that story today? So anyway, I've been spending the last few years telling stories about one of my teachers named Suzuki. And this person who I don't know the name of, this rabbi, was telling stories about Baal Shem Tov around Europe and And again, finally he said, I think I've been doing it long enough. And he started heading back to Poland. On his way, he heard a story that there was an Italian aristocrat, a wealthy Italian aristocrat, who had a standing offer to give gold coins to people who would tell him stories. The way I heard the story, it didn't say that this rabbi was greedy or that he needed money for travel expenses.

[46:04]

But anyway, somehow, when he heard about this offer, he decided, well, maybe I can tell a few more stories. And he went to Italy on his way back to Poland. And he found this Italian aristocrat's palace or castle. And he went up to it. this story about me is this story about you no it's not about me I didn't I didn't go to the palace to tell stories about my teacher to get some money I didn't do that now I went to Pat I do go to palaces though like this is kind of a palace I did go to this palace tell stories about my teacher. But not to get cold points.

[47:05]

Not me. Really? I've got to go to watch. Is this story about me that I'm telling you? Is this really my story? I'm not telling you that it really is my story? I'm disguising it a little bit? So you won't know this is about me? Are you disguising it from yourself? Because it's not about because you don't want to say it's about you. This is about something in the 18th century. This isn't about me. I'm not that. I'm something other than that story. I'm a different story, but I'm actually something different than that story. What is the self? Your Excellence, Baal Shem Tov, wants you to come and see him.

[48:09]

And he's in that house right over there. And the bishop doesn't say, what? The bishop says, I hear you. And climbs up the steps and conducts the Easter service. sometime after the crowd disperses, the bishop comes to the house where the great rabbi is staying and comes into the house and sees the rabbi and the rabbi says, come with me. And they go into a room together for a few hours and the Then the bishop comes out and leaves the house. And then the rabbi teacher says to his attendant, pack up, we're going back to Poland.

[49:19]

And they go back to Poland. When the young rabbi had finished telling the story, he looked at the rich man, and the rich man's face was covered in tears, and he looked very relaxed and joyful. And he said, thank you for telling that story. You told me the story of myself.

[50:23]

I was that bishop. And before I was bishop, I was a wealthy Jew in that town. But I felt threatened being a Jew in that Christian town. I felt that I would be abused and that they would take away my wealth. So I converted to Christianity. And they were very happy that I converted to Christianity because I was so wealthy. and I rose in the ranks, and they made me bishop. And I was wealthy before I became bishop, but after I became bishop, I became even more wealthy at the expense of the Jews. Baal Shem Tov came to that town to talk to me and tell me that I was

[51:27]

big, big trouble. It's not clear that I could actually survive what I had done, but he said, there's one possibility which I would suggest to you. This conversation took a long time, a few hours, but it came out in that conversation that Baal Shem Tov told him, you should leave, you should resign your bishop position give back all the wealth you gave that you accumulated while you were bishop and leave this town and go someplace else and use your wealth to help people and use your wealth to put the word out to the world to invite people to come and tell you stories and if someone comes to you and tells you the story about yourself, you will be saved.

[52:39]

The rich man said to the rabbi, now you have come here and told me the story about myself, and finally I am saved from my karma. So when people tell us stories about somebody else, and that's about us, when people tell us stories about ourself, who's about others, this is critical in the Buddha way. That there's nobody out there that's got a story that's separate from us. And it's really hard I propose this as necessary for the healing of the world.

[53:48]

It doesn't mean you don't say to somebody, I want you to stop this. So when the rabbi says to the bishop, I want you to resign, Not I want you to. Yeah, I want you to resign being bishop because this is what I want you to do in order for you to be saved from your hypocrisy and selfishness. The rabbi maybe knows that the person he's talking to, the bishop he's talking to, the rabbi knows, maybe, that the bishop he's talking to is himself. And he's talking to himself and he's telling himself, resign as bishop. and do this and maybe the bishop at that point knows that the rabbi is himself so he resigns but there's more work to do we have to listen to more stories one after another until we understand that the stories we're hearing are about us to learn how to listen to all the stories

[55:03]

So more and more we hear that the person who's talking to us is our self. I have a story that you have a look on your face like, that sounds hard. It might be hard. But that's just another story. It sounds hard to do this kind of study. And I have a story that I wish to be friendly when that appearance of difficulty arises. I wish to be friendly to that appearance of difficulty. And then when the doubt that this is going to work appears, I'd like to... that when that story arises, would this really work?

[56:08]

Was there really ever a Baal Shem Tov who told this story? Did that actually happen? When that appears, that's another story, which is about me. That story came up in me just now. Is that about me? It's also about you. My doubts or your doubts? Your doubts or my doubts? My impatience is your impatience. Your impatience is my impatience. When I see your impatience, that's my story, and that's my story is me, and so on. This is studying the self. This is studying the Buddha way. Here's another story. There are applications outside the room here where you can sign up for studying yourself. You can apply to study the Buddha way by studying yourself, by studying your stories, by listening to other people's stories, by telling other people's stories.

[57:22]

You can sign up for that. But that story was just a story. There might not actually be any applications like that outside. And if there aren't, that's another story. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our programs are made possible by the donations we receive. Please help us to continue to realize and actualize the practice of giving by offering your financial support. zc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[58:11]

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