And as I say, you can tell by the feel of the lines that they are really pointing to the deep paradox or contradiction that is our human life. In the imagery of the poem, usually darkness stands for the world of oneness or the world of perfection or you could say the world of God. And light, in the context of the poem, stands for the world of difference, the world of particularity, the world of me and you, the world of our conflict and our confusion. So, mostly we think of ourselves as living in this world of particularity, this world of me and you, with all the confusion and the trouble that it brings into our lives

[01:02]

and longing for the world of oneness and the world of union, the world of perfection in which there isn't any opposition or trouble. But as the poem says, right in the light is the darkness and right in the darkness is the light. They're not two different states or two different conditions. These two views or conditions or experiences or attitudes or approaches to life are not really two different things. They're positioned by each other. And the poem says, just like the front foot and the back foot in walking. Thank you. That's okay. So, you know, when you walk, this foot is the front foot, right?

[02:07]

Then you take another step and now this foot is the front foot and this foot is the back foot. And when you take another step, this foot is the front foot and this foot is the back foot. So, the front foot and the back foot are not different feet, see? They're simply positions that any foot might take at any given time. The Indian pundits explained that it was like this mountain and that mountain. If you're on this mountain, you look over at that mountain over there and you say, there's that mountain over there. But then if you scurry down this mountain and run across the valley and climb up the other mountain, then you say, I'm on this mountain and there's that mountain over there. So there is no this mountain and that mountain. These are only positions. There's no substance to them. They're only positions that have to do with where we happen to be standing at the time.

[03:12]

Just like the front foot and the back foot. There is no front foot or back foot. There's only a position that there happens to be at a given moment in time. And so, oneness and difference, enlightenment and delusion are like this. We deeply believe that enlightenment is somewhere else. It's not present now. Later on, we will be enlightened, maybe. But certainly now, we're in need of it. We don't have it. It hasn't happened in our lives. But the Sandokai tells us that actually, the enlightenment is not somewhere else. It's right exactly in the middle of our confusion. And enlightenment and confusion are just positions, depending on conditions, ever-shifting

[04:20]

positions. When you become enlightenment, the next moment, enlightenment becomes confusion. When you are confused, if you really are confused, the next moment may be enlightenment, and so on, and so on, and so on. Knowing this, studying this, and making this real for ourselves, really changes the way we practice. Because then, when we get enlightened, we don't get that excited about it. And when we're really confused, we don't get that upset about it, because we know that confusion is enlightenment, and enlightenment is confusion. I was reading Suzuki Roshi's unpublished commentary to this poem, Sandokai, and he had a wonderful

[05:27]

image in relation to this idea. He said that our practice is like a fish. We practice like a fish. We don't go searching around for enlightenment and swimming away from delusion. We just stay in one place in the creek, and we open our mouth up, and we gobble up whatever comes along. And those of you who know Tassajara know that you can see a big trout down below the coffee tea area in Tassajara. And that's what they do. They just stay there in the stream, constantly adjusting. I mean, they don't stay still, constantly adjusting. But you don't get the idea. They're not moving around, looking for this or looking for that. They're just staying there, constantly adjusting to the present moment, to the present position.

[06:33]

And if something comes along, they gobble it up, great. Might taste good, might not, but they gobble it up if it moves. And if nothing comes along, then they just stay there and wait, ready all the time. I never did check in the middle of the night and see if they're still there in the same way, but I bet they are, you know, all night long. So this is Suzuki Roshi's recommendation for how to practice. So, you know, seeing this, we can say that our human life is, on the one hand, really a terrible problem, you know, because it's impossible to be a human being and avoid attachment and passion and the pain of preference and the suffering of loss, that there's no

[07:38]

way to be a human being and avoid strife and grief. And then no matter how enlightened we become, eventually we have to come back to being human. We have to make choices and judgments, enter into relationships, live in the material and psychological worlds, and definitely we're going to have trouble because of this. Maybe sometimes big trouble, maybe sometimes medium or small trouble, but anyway, some sort of trouble. And this is true and unavoidable, I think, in being human. And, on the other hand, to be human is a magical and marvelous proposition. To be human is to have the birthright of living in a world of peacefulness and bliss.

[08:43]

Last weekend, I was in British Columbia, and it was unusual weather. It snowed in Vancouver, and the snow stayed on the ground, and you could see the snow on the fence posts and fence rails and on the rooftops and on the lawns. And it was like magic, like being in the world of the gods and goddesses. And if you're cold in the mountains, to feel that first sun when it comes up over the ridge and warns you is like a miracle. It's magical. To be able to look at a child's face, deeply to see a child's face, or the face of our

[09:48]

beloved, is a miracle. It's the most precious thing. To have ears, to hear sound of a bird, of the wind in the trees, or of the woodwind instrument or the stringed instrument, this is no ordinary thing. This is a transcendent, unbelievable experience. To be able to eat delicious food, to feel intimate with and understood by another person, these are all signs of a bliss realm. To see a butterfly, to look at a hummingbird, this is our human life. It's really perfect.

[10:49]

So we have these two facts of life for us, these two worlds that exist simultaneously, each containing the other. And here we are, being human. So being human is a great problem and a great opportunity. And when it appears to us in the position of a problem, as Sandokai says, we have to say and take seriously, yes, this is a problem to work with, even though we know that the bliss is right in the middle of the problem. And when our life is wonderful and blissful, we have to just enjoy it, even though we know that in the middle of that bliss, in the middle of that transcendent enjoyment, there is some

[11:53]

problem. So to be a human being is to be ready, just like a fish. Ready and fearless, knowing that we don't know what will happen next, but just facing straight ahead with whatever our life is, accepting what comes to us. We can't say it's this way or that way. Of course, we have all sorts of brilliant ideas about it, but we need to know and respect the fact that all our brilliant ideas of what our life is at any given time are just our momentary brilliant ideas. We can enjoy them the same way we enjoy birdsong. But not get too entangled in them or become crazy and entangled in our ideas.

[13:06]

What we think, what we know at any given moment of our lives is limited. The Sandokai goes on to say, each and everything has its virtue. Each and everything has its power, its virtue. It's a matter of use in the appropriate situation. And this to me is one of the deepest points to understand about our practice. Because everything is included in our practice, absolutely everything. And there's absolutely nothing in our life that is not a part of our practice. Because life is our practice and death is our practice. When it's time for life, it's time for life. And when it's time for death, it's time for death. When it's time to sit, we sit. When it's time to get up, we get up.

[14:12]

Each and everything that appears in our lives, no matter how horrible it seems or how much we would like it not to be there, each and everything, by virtue of its being in our life, has its own power, has its own meaning for us, if only we face straight ahead and gobble it up whole and move on. And as we practice more, sitting and studying and hearing teachings and reflecting mostly on our own experience, what's really, really true for us below the level of our superficial self-centeredness, little by little we get the feeling for what's appropriate, how we need to work and practice on each moment. And, you know, we try different things

[15:25]

and we make mistakes. And then the mistake has its own virtue. And it's not necessary to brood too much over our mistakes and difficulties. Maybe we could brood a little bit. That would be okay. Maybe that's good, a little bit brooding. But not too much. And then digesting and going on with a strong and open spirit. And when I was up in the Pacific Northwest last weekend, I've been going there for many years and know many of the students up there quite intimately. And when I was there, I had a feeling about our practice

[16:30]

that was very powerful for me. Although I almost can't explain it or talk about it because I don't really know exactly what it was. But I had a feeling. Sometimes it seems as if we, me, you, as if we are practicing the Dharma and that practice is taking place in our lives, in our bodies, in our minds, on our cushions, in our lives. Usually that's how it seems. But it's not us who is practicing. It's not a person who is practicing.

[17:38]

And what we see as our practice is really only a small part of what our practice really is because mostly we don't see. And even that little part of it that we think we see, even that part we don't even see completely. And I don't mean to say that somehow we're practicing in outer space or something like that, some other realm, because we're practicing right here in this world, in this very body and mind. But I don't think mostly we appreciate what our body and mind actually is. Our body and mind doesn't exist in outer space. It's right here. And it comes alive in response to big conditions all around us. And it comes alive in response to each other.

[18:43]

Every person we encounter, everything we encounter in our life is really a big mystery. We have various conceptions of it, but it's really a big mystery. And when we really encounter each other in the mystery of each other, usually what happens is we get confused and pretty mixed up. And a lot of times we don't even realize we're confused and mixed up. But we stay awake and try to keep on practicing. And then maybe, just through the process of keeping on, not with our mind, but in the process of our living, maybe we understand something. So somehow I'm trying to say that practice is about the mystery of our confused relationships.

[19:48]

But I'm afraid to say that, because it's not exactly what I mean. Anyway, I said in the beginning of this little part that I didn't know what to say about it. So, anyway, that's my attempt. So, since we're wandering around in the dark and not knowing what we're talking about, I thought it would be good to bring up a koan just to compound our difficulties and have a little fun. This case, number 42 of the Gateless Barrier, Mumenkan. The title of the case is Manjushri and the Young Woman in Samadhi. Some of the cases, as you know, are quite brief, one or two lines, but this one tells a little story and it goes on for a while.

[20:53]

So here's the case. Once Manjushri went to a place where many Buddhas had assembled with the World Honored One, who was Shakyamuni Buddha. When he, Manjushri, arrived, all the Buddhas had returned to their original dwelling place, and only a young woman remained, seated in samadhi near the Buddha's seat. Manjushri addressed the Buddha and asked, How can the young woman get near the Buddha's seat when I cannot? The Buddha replied to Manjushri, Awaken this young woman from her samadhi and ask her yourself. So Manjushri walked around the young woman three times, snapped his fingers, and when that didn't wake her up, he zapped her to the Brahma heaven and did other various supernatural things

[22:01]

that were really spectacular, but he could not bring her out of samadhi. She stayed absolutely motionless. The World Honored One said, Even a hundred thousand Manjushris cannot awaken her. Down below, past twelve hundred million lands, as innumerable as sands of the Ganges, lives the Bodhisattva of Delusive Wisdom. He will be able to bring her out of samadhi. Instantly, the Bodhisattva of Delusive Wisdom emerged from the earth and made vows before the World Honored One who gave him his imperial order. Delusive Wisdom stepped before the young woman, snapped his fingers once, and at this she immediately came out of samadhi. And that's the end of the case. These old stories are wonderful, aren't they?

[23:06]

So the first question that we consider in looking at this koan is, How come all the Buddhas left when Manjushri appeared, visiting? How come they all immediately left? The koan says they all returned to their original dwelling place. So where is the original dwelling place of all the Buddhas? Is it far away in some distant land, twelve million billion worlds away? Or is it so absolutely close that it remains completely hidden? And Manjushri, as you may know, is the Bodhisattva of Perfect Wisdom, the Bodhisattva of Prajnaparamita. And as such, he is considered to be the teacher of all the Buddhas.

[24:18]

So how come when he arrived they all split? Why is that? Or did they leave? Of course, Shakyamuni Buddha, the historical Buddha, remained. Why did he remain? You know, in many Mahayana Buddhist texts, they say that Shakyamuni Buddha and his career that we all know so well, leaving the palace, attaining enlightenment, teaching for fifty years, passing into parinirvana, setting up the Buddhist order, and so on and so on and so on. These Mahayana texts say, you know, that didn't really happen. That was just a theater piece, because the Buddha realized that people needed to see something like that

[25:21]

in order to get off their duffs and practice. So he showed that theater piece for our benefit. In the Lotus Sutra, in particular, it talks about how the Buddha didn't really pass into parinirvana and disappear. The Buddha actually was never born and never died. The Buddha is present on each and every atom of existence. And astonishingly, in one of the tantric texts, it says that the Buddha only seemed to leave home and leave his family and seek his enlightenment by himself through ascetic practices. In reality, he stayed at home the whole time, and in blissful union with his wife, achieved enlightenment. You probably didn't know that, huh? Think of that. So the Buddha puts on a show for us,

[26:28]

a necessary show, because without this show, we wouldn't take up the Dharma and save ourselves. So here maybe he's putting on a show for Manjushri, clearing the set of all the extraneous actors and actresses, and preparing for a lesson for Manjushri, or perhaps a piece of didactic theater for us. Maybe the Buddhas are all really just theater, just a kind of a distraction, just a little educational tool. And once we really and truly enter into our lives, maybe we don't need the Buddhas anymore. But anyway, besides Shakyamuni Buddha,

[27:34]

there's also one more person left on the scene, a young woman. And this is why I was interested in this koan. I've been thinking about studying women practitioners in Buddhism throughout the centuries, and opening up my own understanding through understanding their practice. So this koan really struck me, because it's very rare that a young woman appears in Zen koans. There's a couple cases where there's an old woman appearing to show up amongst But this is probably the only case that I'm aware of anyway, where there's a young woman in samadhi, appearing in the koan. And in all the koans, you know, there's all these monks usually, and in a way, although they have personalities, they're sort of interchangeable. They're very spiritualized creatures.

[28:35]

But somehow you get the idea in this koan that this is really a young woman an embodied, physical, real, flesh-and-blood woman, not a spiritualized fantasy. And she's the one who can get close to Shakyamuni Buddha. Manjushri can't get near, can't get intimate with Buddha. And you know, in Zen, the word intimate and the word enlightened are synonymous. So she can really see and enter into the Buddha's life, and Manjushri feels a little bit shut out. So he asks, how come she can get close and I can't get close?

[29:39]

A bodhisattva of perfect wisdom, transcendent wisdom, who sees the emptiness of all phenomena perfectly, who sees oneness completely on all occasions, can't become intimate with Buddha, but this young woman can. How come? Well, I suppose Buddha could say something here. But he says, you bring her back to her embodied, active life and ask her. You can't avoid her by asking me. Wake her up yourself and ask her. And Manjushri, with his great wisdom, has fantastic powers.

[30:44]

He can locate in many places at once. He can zap through time and space quite easily. And he does all that stuff, but none of it is enough to wake up the woman, the young woman from samadhi. Then the Buddha says, millions and millions of worlds away, below here, there's the bodhisattva of delusive wisdom. Bodhisattva of delusive wisdom is a beginning bodhisattva, just started out on the path and has full of confusion and so on, attachment. Manjushri is the pinnacle. So way down there, there's a bodhisattva who can awaken this woman. And of course, this bodhisattva instantaneously appears, showing, I suppose, that while delusion may seem far away, it's always close at hand.

[31:47]

And he comes, and without any fanfare at all or any kind of complicated magic, just snaps his fingers, and she comes to life. Master Mumon makes a comment on this story. He says, Old Shakyamuni put on a disorderly comedy this time. No better than a child. Or maybe as good as a child. Manjushri is teacher of the seven Buddhas who are the primordial Buddhas who came before Shakyamuni Buddha. So Manjushri, seven generations, was teaching before Buddhist time. And so why couldn't he bring the young woman out of samadhi? Delusive wisdom is a bodhisattva at the beginning level.

[32:51]

How could he bring her out? If you can see this intimately, then in a flurry of karma and discrimination, you are a dragon of great samadhi. If you can see this intimately, then in a flurry of karma and discrimination, you are a dragon of great samadhi. So we all go to a great deal of trouble to seek wisdom and put delusion behind us. But actually, as soon as we create an image or a concept or a definition or a desire called wisdom, even the wonderful Buddhist wisdom that we all love, so well, then all the Buddhas disappear. As soon as we set up the bodhisattva of wisdom,

[33:53]

all the Buddhas go away. And this wisdom can't bring us to life. Only the bodhisattva of delusion immediately brings us to life. Which means that we don't need to look for enlightenment somewhere else. In our delusion, if we can just turn toward it and stay with it without defining something outside of it, stay with it with acceptance, with permission, without flinching or denying, then we can be in samadhi,

[34:55]

right in the middle of the world of karma and discrimination. The word samadhi, I'm sure most of you know, means meditative concentration, kind of an almost trance-like state of oneness. We think of samadhi as being a special state of concentration, quite different from our ordinary mind. But actually, if we really enter samadhi and understand what samadhi actually is, it's not different from our ordinary state of mind. Right in the middle of our ordinary state of mind is samadhi. And right in the middle of the oneness of samadhi is ordinary discriminative consciousness. And when we practice developing samadhi,

[35:58]

developing concentration, developing meditation, this is what we understand. That consciousness itself, the very consciousness itself is samadhi. The deepest meditation is non-different from consciousness itself. Consciousness itself, which includes animate and inanimate things, as well as all states of mind, right in the middle of any moment of consciousness is peacefulness. It's there. And this reminds me of my favorite short

[37:00]

Zen story. Once a monk asked Master Joshu, what is Zazen? What is Zen meditation? And Joshu said, it's non-Zazen. And the monk said, how can Zazen be non-Zazen? And Master Joshu said, it's alive. So many of us are about to start a seven-day session this evening. Sitting on our cushions pretty much without stopping night and day for seven days. Very intensive period of time that will almost be the close of our fall practice period.

[38:01]

And I hope that in our development of concentration we will work on the deeper understanding that samadhi is the nature of consciousness itself, as this koan tells us. That right in the middle of karma and discrimination and all of our problems there is a peacefulness. There is a miraculousness to our life. And I hope in the development of our practice this week we can appreciate that real Zazen, the real Zazen of Shakyamuni Buddha, the real meditation practice cannot be limited or defined. Dogen once said, the Zazen that I'm talking about

[39:07]

has nothing to do with sitting, standing, walking or lying down. In these cases in the Mumonkan in addition to a comment there's always a little poem. So I'll read you Mumon's poem, four-line poem on this case. Always the commentary in the poem illuminate a little bit more what the case is pointing toward. And he says, One can bring her out, the other cannot. But both of them are free. A god mask, a devil mask. The failure is an elegant performance. The failure is an elegant performance. Once I went to my koan teacher in Sashin and presented an answer to a koan

[40:09]

that was quite wonderful, although wrong. And he said, the failure is an elegant performance. So, lest we, having heard all of this and thought about all this, we then conclude that Manjushri is the loser in this koan and the Bodhisattva of elusive wisdom is the winner. Remember, it's all a play for our benefit. And Manjushri's failure is an elegant performance. So let's not forget the wonders of the perfection of wisdom and the wonders of samadhi power. Clarity.

[41:13]

Understanding everything completely. Flashing lights and bodhisattvas and the wonderful lightness of the body as if we could fly through the air. This is wonderful. This is a great performance. This is the great fun of Sashin of intensive meditation retreat. All the great flashy stuff that we get to experience. Sorry, we're full. You can't sign up now in case you were all going to run out here and try to come. But it is a wonderful thing. It's quite an elegant performance in Sashin. And a great deal of fun. Although some people say that they suffer a lot. Even that's fun. So all these things,

[42:18]

these spectacular parts of Sashin are all a great failure but an elegant performance. And sometimes failure, of course, we don't need to get too literal about failure because sometimes failure is more profitable than success, right? More helpful and more enlightening than success. So let's not think we are too clear about what Master Mumon means here about success and failure. Devil mask, God mask, but both are free. So, let me end my talk today with a poem of my own because I was thinking about this case so much

[43:19]

that I wrote a poem about it. Where did they go, those shining ones of the past whose halos arched over all our days? That place from which everything emerges, barrier and ground and words fall to the dust in a puff. In heat is our salvation and in shape and breath. Trees, no doubt, would be cooperative if they could and all the debris of our lives, our arguments and integers, our detrimental consequences and holistic tackleings of the breakings of the soul wouldn't come back to haunt us anymore if we could sing one clear note like a bell

[44:22]

at the right moment. And there she sits, wrapped and glorious, embodied, sexual and pure, holding on to the key we threw away long ago and never remembered till the closed confusions of now. Where did they go, those shining ones of the past whose halos arched over all our days? That place from which everything emerges, barrier and ground and words fall to the dust in a puff. And all the debris of our lives, our arguments and integers, our detrimental consequences and holistic tackleings of the breakings of the soul wouldn't come back to haunt us anymore if we could sing one clear note like a bell at the right moment. And there she sits,

[45:22]

wrapped and glorious, embodied, sexual and pure, holding on to the key we threw away long ago and never remembered till the closed confusions of now. So, thank you very much for your attention today and for coming out. I guess you know that next week will be the seventh day, the seventh day of our seven-day retreat, so we will have a talk, but we won't have tea and lunch, question and answer and so on. And for those of you in the room who will be sitting in the Sashin, please spend a peaceful day, take care of yourselves, and we will be seeing you, a lot. Thank you.

[46:28]

Training is not really different. It's not that we're producing something that we didn't already have or that anybody else doesn't already have. That's very important. And yet, on the other hand, although it's at any time possible to realize how to live this way without the training, we have to admit that for most of us we need to do some meditation practice or to have some intensive training. And with intensive training, I think that we do become clearer on this point and we are able to live more and more in accord with the pivot point between these two seeming opposites. And the reason why we feel the grating sense of difficulty

[47:45]

that you described is because of our self-centeredness and our attachment. Why is it that as soon as something comes up, some controversy or difficulty, we feel ill at ease? And the reason is because immediately our attachment comes up. So it's easy when we're sitting on the cushion, we sit there and nothing to worry about, right? Maybe. But when we get up, somebody says to us, give me all your money, and right away we have a problem. So the more we train and the more we really see how painful our self-centeredness is, the more possible it is to actually live in accord with some sense of belonging everywhere so that things that formerly would right away raise our hackles and cause us problems don't have to, or raise our hackles less.

[48:47]

So it's maybe, in a way, a matter of degree. We just feel more ease over time as we continue to practice. So, it's unfortunate, I mean, that religious practice, which is so powerful and important for us, has also been so nasty for human beings. So we have to be careful. And yet I do think we need some real spiritual practice in our lives. I think we actually need some practice and some training in order for this to become real in our lives. And I think that's why people want to practice. It's not because, I don't think it's because of some great blinding Buddhist faith or something. It's because of suffering and pain. And people come and they say, hey, this is not working out. I'm living my life in this way and it's causing me... there must be a better way to live. This is painful. And the more you become aware of the pain, sometimes you become more aware and you see how much pain there is there that you didn't even know was there.

[49:49]

And the more you see that, the more you say, well, this is not workable. There must be a better way to live. And then when you have, it's hard to say whether we have more societal breakdown at the moment than there ever was, or whether it's just always been the same. But in any case, when you look around you and you see some of the things going on, you say, well, even if I'm feeling alright, there must be a better way to live so that the world is different from the way it is, and so on. So because of that feeling, that certainty that comes from our own vision, we take up the practice. And when we take up the practice and we give ourselves to it, honestly and diligently over time, our lives do change. So I don't want to make too much of that, because even though our lives change, there's no end to the refinement of it. And if somebody tells you, hey, I've been practicing a long time and my life is great now, I have no problems, all my relationships are wonderful, I'm at peace with the world, then be suspicious,

[50:52]

because probably they're kidding themselves, or kidding you, or both, because there's always more work to do. But it's a matter of degree. Many people will say, yes, it's true, I'm still a mess and I'm still working on it, but I feel a lot more grounded and centered and happy than I was before. Now I feel like I have a path, I have a way, I have something that I can do, and I feel good to be working with my life. Even though it's not always a bed of roses, I feel like it's not hopeless, I feel like there's something that I can do, I feel like I can deal with the challenges that come up. So that kind of thing is not pie-in-the-sky enlightenment trip. It's just, you know, it's possible. And many people can say that, that they feel that in their lives. I always like to be very realistic about this stuff, because to set up something lofty can be counterproductive.

[51:53]

So anyway, I didn't give you an answer, I just said keep practicing, and that's what I said. So please do. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, well that's very common in Zen language. And there are koans about that, using the word intimacy in Japanese, Chinese word, which translates as intimacy or oneness or closeness. Intimacy in the sense that there is no other, there is only one being, in that sense. So that's what

[53:00]

enlightenment is, really, is a thoroughgoing and total non-self-centeredness. Self-centeredness is, I'm over here and the rest of the world is over there, and it's about to get me unless I beat it off with a stick. That's what self-centeredness is. And that's a tough proposition, because of course, how are we going to beat off everybody else? How are we going to beat off the forces in ourselves that are going to destroy our lives? We can't really do that. It's a totally futile proposition. So letting go of self-centeredness means I am everyone else. I am totally everyone else. My sense of self is provisional and temporary. And although I know that it comes up, and I don't deny that it comes up, it's not the ground on which I stand. The ground on which I stand is my union with everything, with everyone. So there's a famous story,

[54:01]

and I've said before, if somebody tries to take your money and already you're upset. There's a famous story of one of my favorite Zen teachers named Ryokan, who was a poet and lived in a little country temple. And one time he was robbed on the night of the full moon. He had very few possessions, but he went out of his hut and somebody came and robbed him and ran away with the stuff. And it was on the night of the full moon. And as he saw them running down the road, he stuck his head out the window when he came back in and looked up at the full moon and he said, Sorry that I can't give you the moon too. So this is a beautiful ideal. Wouldn't it be nice if we could feel that way? Someone steals something from us. There's a reason why they're trying to steal it from us. They need it somehow. They think they need it. They're suffering. Nobody steals anything from anybody without suffering. Even a big industrial crook

[55:01]

like the people from Archer Daniels Midland or whatever the name of that company is who just were fined a gazillion million dollars, which of course is peanuts to them, for price fixing. They make this stuff called corn syrup, which is in everything that you buy. Every bottle of Coca-Cola and so on has Archer Daniels Midlands corn syrup in it, which they've been fixing the prices for for generations. And so we have been putting huge amounts of money in their pocket. They're really thieves. But goodness knows they have a need for this somehow. And even though they'll escape scot-free, we have to feel sorry for them. Imagine the mind that you have to have to think, how are we going to get all these people who are spending their last dime for these bottles of Coca-Cola to pay us more money so that we can have more and more and more stuff? Think of how you'd be if that was your mind. So that's very sad to me. That's quite pathetic.

[56:04]

So even those kind of thieves, not to mention thieves who are robbing us in desperation, the truth of the matter is, although we're terrified and we don't want to give up our stuff, if you think about it, how much do we need the fifty bucks in our wallet or the house that we live in? How much do we need it even? Do we really need it? How much do we need it? Is that more important to us than our sense of reality? So if we really do practice intimacy with the whole of reality, we see things completely different. We don't see thieves. We see human beings in pain. We don't see monsters. We see creatures worthy of our compassion. So it changes the way we do things and the way we live. And we don't feel threatened. We don't feel threatened.

[57:14]

Well, there's different practices, but usually with the beads you recite mantras. And so I don't count myself. In Tibetan Buddhist practice they have a wonderful system in Tibetan Buddhism of graduated practice. Zen is one practice. Like Suzuki Roshi talks about beginner's mind, which means that the practice of the super Zen master is identical to the practice of the first beginner, first day, just like in that koan. The practice of the Bodhisattva at the beginning of his journey is even better than the practice of the Bodhisattva at the end. But in Tibetan Buddhism they have a wonderful system of graduated practices and preliminary practices and then you do this and then you do that. So they say you should recite hundreds of thousands of mantras. So you have to count them. And you keep track until you have recited enough mantras.

[58:16]

Then you do your 100,000 prostrations. Then you do your 100,000 visualizations. And when you do all that, which takes you 10 years, then you're ready to begin the practice of something else. So I don't count. Most Zen people, I don't think, count mantras, but it's a good way to remind yourself of your practice and to focus your mind. And when you get good at it, you can recite mantras even while you're talking and thinking about something else. You can still recite. And there's different ones that you can recite. So I usually, because I had a dear friend in the Dharma who I was very close to who taught me some Tibetan mantras. I use Om Mani Padme Hum, which is a Tibetan mantra. But there's a Japanese refuge taking, Namo Kyei Butsu, Namo Kyei So and so forth. Taking refuge in Buddha, Dharma and Sangha,

[59:16]

which you can do on the beads. So it's a kind of way of focusing your intention and focusing your mind. Because our mind is very complicated and you can tell that a lot's going on in your mind that you're not aware of. So practice is to some extent about marshalling the forces of the mind around a powerful intention and focusing the mind. So it helps a little bit anyway. And then just having the beads reminds you what you're doing even if you don't even do anything with them. Question from audience [...] Oh, no, it's not in print and I hope it will be sometime, but

[60:19]

I have enough time to write poems these days but not enough time to type them and send them to magazines or put them in books. So probably it will be in print in the distant future when you forgot about it. And every time I read a poem of mine in a talk, I think I should type this up and make copies and put it in the office and I always forget. And then people ask me and I never get around to it. Someday I'll do it, but no, it's not in print. I just wrote it last week. I do have books in print, but they're some years ago. Yeah, sorry. Question from audience [...]

[61:21]

yeah, trees would cooperate or something like that if they could, something like that. So, where I went off in my daydream was thinking about the Buddha being a partner with Krishna, that the early Buddha meditated outdoors, in the city in general, and then reflecting on my own brief experiences of what I feel is one that may be a delusion, which have always happened outdoors, never in the center. I never actually wanted to meditate, because that's happening in relation to trees, or the sky, or the ocean. So, I don't know what my question is. I guess my thought, if it was my time, I would say, is trees not meditation? They would help us if they could, or would cooperate if they could.

[62:28]

And she was saying that a lot of her important experiences in practice, which she qualified by saying, well, maybe they weren't really enlightenment or delusion experiences, but I would like to edit that part out, and let her say, my important experiences have been with trees, and ocean, and sky. And yes, my poems are improvised. They just roll out of me. And I have noticed over the years that I often include something about trees in my poems for exactly the same reason that you bring up. Because seeing trees, also for me, where some of my most important insights and experiences of opening have come in looking at a tree, or trees. And yes, you're right too, that in Buddhist literature,

[63:37]

Buddha is enlightened under a tree. And in fact, the style of meditation that we do, and that Buddha did when he was enlightened, comes from a memory that he had of being a child, and just sitting under a tree as a child, and just falling into a natural state of meditation. No special kind of big deal concentration practice, but just simple awareness of the present moment. He experienced when he was a little boy, and when he exhausted all of his other spiritual techniques, and decided that none of them would work, he remembered all of a sudden, that time, being a boy, sitting under a tree, and meditating in that way, and he began meditating that way under a tree as the Buddha. And when he passed away, he also lied down between two trees, and the trees leaned over and wept as he entered Parinirvana.

[64:40]

So in fact, one time he told all of his disciples that they should plant a tree, and tend it, as they wandered around, that they would come back to the trees that they planted. So, definitely, trees do figure prominently into the story of Buddha, and also in my own life, and in yours too, it sounds like. And also, I want to mention that it's very typical in Zen that the insights often don't happen. In the stories, in the literature, and also in real life, the insights don't happen often in the meditation hall. They happen other times, outside the meditation hall. Quite often. Sometimes in the meditation hall, but quite often outside. In response to something that happens in our lives, usually something like a natural phenomenon, although there are stories that involve other human, inter-human contacts as well. So that's why, when I wrote that line, and I went back and looked at the poem, I said, there's those trees again, son of a gun.

[65:42]

They just pop out every time. And I thought, well, that line is not really necessary. I could eliminate that line. But then I thought, well, why not leave it in there? Let the trees stay there. Maybe sometime in the future somebody will think, why did he put all those trees in the poem? Let me think about that. And who knows what they'll think. So thank you for that comment. Trees are quite profound, of course. If you ever have a chance to just contemplate a tree, or relate to a tree, it's quite something. We've lost a couple of trees here lately, and I know Wendy Johnson, who's our head gardener and person who watches over this valley, really went into great grief over these trees.

[66:44]

It was very serious for her, like losing a person in her life, I remember. And we did ceremonies for both of the trees. This one over here, in the oak tree, we knew that we were losing both of them because they were quite ill. And when they went away, when they fell down, one fell down in the storm and one had to be taken down. We made a ceremony and everybody offered incense and we set up an altar right in front of the fallen tree. And in Asia, in Thailand, there's radical Thai monks who ordain trees to protect them because the Thai people are very faithful to Buddhist ordination ceremonies, so they would never cut down a tree that was ordained. The Thai monks actually go into the forest and ordain trees and give them Buddhist names and so on so that people won't cut them down. Here, it wouldn't do any good. Cut them down

[67:47]

because people believe in money much more than Buddhadharma. You know, big deal, cut the tree down. It's worth so many thousand dollars per board foot and so on and so forth. anyway, yes. I just made a connection when we were talking about trees and saying one of the things, first of all, you can sit in the tree, the backyard is almost hot, and you can sit in the tree so you don't melt. I don't melt. But one of the things that's helpful to me about trees is looking at the shape of the branches and the leaves and the form and the shapes of the space and sitting is like making space for something to come up and I just was, you know, there's both things that I knew Yeah, that's nice. Thank you. Yes. People came together

[69:09]

in front of the company and did away with only one Yeah. Yeah. This is sort of about this and that and I can tell as I'm starting to talk that it's going to sound self-evident and shallow in words but I was speaking with a friend the other day and the holidays seem to be a particularly good time to notice this and that and the words we what I wound up saying to her was why is the best the worst and that it seems like Why are the holidays so difficult? Is that what you mean? They can be the best or the worst. If you're really living and that

[70:09]

meditating is that just saying the best is the worst is a trip and also that it seems to be in life it really is if you're really in life so it's always the best it's always the worst if you're an athlete and you're at the very best you can be you're always the closest to injury if you're a race car driver you're always at the best on the edge and when you're loving or intimate it's always when the most attachment and pain can occur it seems like something you can say every day which is different You probably couldn't hear all that huh? Too bad Because no, it was really beautiful what she said

[71:12]

She was I'll try to, because I got the mic I'll try to just a little bit summarize She was saying that The holidays, which are the best time often are the worst time sometimes they're the best time too but they're not usually in between and how that's always true in life that when things are at their best the worst is right there or close at hand and she gave many examples of an athlete at the height of his or her powers might be injury is very close at hand intimacy with another person might be the pain of attachment and loss is close at hand in any way than in life and she said that she was meditating on that the best is the worst and sitting with that which is a really good zen practice to sit with something like that and just breathe with it and stay with it until you have a feeling about it until you understand it in a new way

[72:14]

because it is true that life is impermanent so just like I was saying there's always right in the middle of light there's darkness and right in the middle of darkness there's light every beginning is an ending and every ending is a new beginning and so there's joy and sorrow always right in the middle of our life if we look and that's the beauty of it that's why life is so beautiful and poignant because that's so yeah, it's much easier to love the worst she says when you see that, absolutely because we're terrified of the worst we're running away from the worst thinking that somehow we could successfully stave it off which is ridiculous we can't it's right there and so thinking that we can stave off what's right in front of us all the time means that we're always

[73:17]

living nervously separate from our very life and that's just not a good way to live and many problems come from that and it's just too bad that we live in a world in which that's what everything is set up to do is to encourage us to run away from our lives because we're being constantly told that everything will be perfect if only you can escape and run away and it's definitely possible if only you'll buy this product or take out this insurance policy or drive this car or whatever it is then everything is going to be just hunky-dory which it is for a few minutes but that's what religion does too ... did I say that? ... I hope not ... but yeah

[74:18]

I mean, right religion has its downfall, its pitfalls definitely and it's embarrassing and horrifying and we have to be realistic about that and never forget that because we could get very enthusiastic about our religion and start like I was saying earlier separating ourselves from other people who aren't doing it or feel superior I was just looking in the break between the talk and the question and answer and coming over to the tea I was looking at the Tricycle magazine and Tia was reading it to me and she said that there's an article in there about somebody's doing a writing about Tibet now and Tibet is always presented as being

[75:19]

paradise the Chinese came and ruined paradise everybody was happy all these nice little Tibetans doing Buddhism maybe it was that way, I don't know I'm suspicious Bob Thurman makes it sound that way but apparently now people are writing about well actually there were abuses there too in the name of Buddhadharma this is human beings I don't think that we will in any time in the near future create human perfection on earth, I'm not planning on that myself, in the near future or the distant future I'm planning on improvements modest improvements and greater happiness and acceptance

[76:22]

of the way things are and I'm planning on being more courageous myself in my own efforts to do what I can and that my friends will do the same but I'm not naive about the troublesome nature of the human heart and I don't think that's going to change too fast so nothing surprises me you hear all kinds of things happen and it doesn't surprise me since I know when I look at my own heart my own shortcomings and my own attachment to self and ego and so on so here I am spending 25 years night and day full time working on my practice and I'm a messed up so why wouldn't I expect that somebody else would be, right? so therefore it's not at all surprising

[77:24]

to find things happen and people do things that surprise she did that, he did that you know, well how much more so someone who affirms self-centeredness and wants to accumulate power at the expense of others it's just human beings it's very, very unfortunate but we have to do what we can do to change that even though we don't have expectations and religion same thing, you know, you get big religious establishment you think, oh what we're doing is really important so we can trash this guy because it's a greater good so my principle is that the whole Zen center can crash and burn rather than hurt one person if we have to be nasty and mean to one person

[78:24]

then everybody can just find another way to practice we can lose that's why somebody will say, oh but they can sue I say, well that's ok they can sue and they can have all the buildings and everything like that but we have to do what's right so but who knows whether we'll really do things that way yeah Tony you know, along the lines of keeping simple and I think the problem I have with what I read about Tibetan Buddhism is you have situations like right now China is declaring an heir to the Dalai Lama and the people who follow him they are to the Dalai Lama? to the Dalai Lama or the Panchen Lama the Panchen Lama no, it's a different there's a Dalai Lama

[79:26]

and there's a Panchen Lama and it's the Panchen Lama who's not as important as the Dalai Lama but it's real important that Lama, the Chinese have their own successor and the Tibetans have another one that's the one anyway, but your point is still well taken my point is still that you know, in a sense Buddhism is, I see it that way and why I prefer what I see of Zen it goes out to creating saints and angels Tibetan Buddhism does and all this stuff and I think that in a sense takes away from really the simplicity of what I see in Zen the beginner's mind the whole thing you get rid of all this garbage I think a lot of us Western people who come from religious backgrounds that's what we don't want and I see that as yeah well

[80:27]

yes well you read about the Panchen Lama in the newspaper but you probably haven't read about Japanese Zen in the 17th century or 18th century or 16th century it's got its own stuff, right? fortunately we just don't know about it much and different forms of Buddhism that's one of the interesting things about our time and place is that if you live in the Bay Area you can have your choice of Buddhist approaches and they are very different Tibetan Buddhism Buddhism is Buddhism but Tibetan Buddhism does have a different feeling from Zen and so on and I think it's a matter of temperament and there are, yeah I was immediately personally attracted to Zen immediately because of my temperament and I like Tibetan Buddhism

[81:30]

a lot actually and I've studied a lot but I don't think I could have carried through with Tibetan Buddhism because of the same reasons that you say but then again that's just my temperament and maybe your temperament too there's a lot of people who practice Tibetan Buddhism very beautifully and successfully and I've met a lot of Westerners who have practiced Tibetan Buddhism for many many many years and are very wonderful and impressive just this last, during this practice period it just so happened that in the last several months the three wonderful Tibetan teachers have been through here, all Westerners who have all been practicing Tibetan Buddhism for 20 years and more and these are wonderful wise women, there happened to be three women wonderful wise women and had much great teaching to offer us and Tibetan Buddhism has some advantages

[82:30]

every tradition has advantages and disadvantages excuse me I have a frog in my throat today, one of the advantages of Tibetan Buddhism is that it's more colorful and more creative in a way Zen is Zen admits of creativity in other words the Zen approach to life says go and be creative but the practice itself is very boring you know, there's nothing creative about Zazen, Kinhin, Zazen, Kinhin, Zazen, Kinhin I mean that's it Dharma talk, Zazen, Kinhin, Zazen, Kinhin Dharma talk, year after year you know, century after century so you have to go out and do something but in Tibetan Buddhism they got all this fabulous stuff if you're visually oriented you could have gigantic realms of Buddhism, Bodhisattvas all colors, doing all kinds of things fabulous stuff you can make mandalas out of sand

[83:32]

we're going to have a big retreat the Tibetan Buddhists have done this great thing with gang members they've used sand mandalas and they draw in gang members they've been in L.A. they're going to do it here this summer I'm going to participate in June big huge thing, we're going to have all these kids from all over the Bay Area I guess, I don't know how they figure out who's in gangs but they call up look up on the Reddit pages under gang they call up and say can you send us your most nasty gang members over here anyway they make sand mandalas and they get the people in the gangs to make the sand mandalas and then design their own so what I'm saying is they have their own, what are we going to do with the gang say okay guys in a gang, you sit here and you sit there like that just follow your breath, well they might do it but maybe they wouldn't maybe they'd say oh man, are you kidding me

[84:33]

forget that, but when you say hey we're going to make this mandala it's going to be different colored sand it's going to be really beautiful, then maybe they want to do it so they've been actually enormously successful in doing things like that with young people and all kinds of other things that they do Tibetan Buddhists do particularly one of the teachers was telling me that women she was visiting actually it wasn't a Zen place it was a Theravada place where they have men and women, nuns and monks and the women were saying wow, this practice is so wonderful and we really like it, but there's something about our creative spirit that's not being answered here and this woman, she felt like in her tradition there was lots of ways that you could articulate, there's visualization of feminine deities and deity yoga and all this stuff in Tibetan Buddhism so so what I'm saying is there's lots of ways to practice and we need to practice the way that really suits us

[85:36]

and if we look at that stuff and we say oh man, who needs all of that now probably you grew up Catholic, right? so probably people who grew up Catholic, they say forget that that sounds a whole lot like this thing that I grew up with that I didn't like at all because of various reasons now I have a lot of good Catholic friends, right? so I don't mean to I'm not complaining about the church, I have a lot of Catholic monastics who are great practitioners and really inspiring people I've also heard a lot of horror stories of people growing up in the church and feeling abused in various ways so they don't want to have anything to do with all the saints and the Buddhis and Bodhisattvas, they want something so it depends on our history our karma and our temperament what really speaks to us as a way of practice but Zen is great I think it's wonderful we should all practice Zen and nothing else unless you feel like doing something else

[86:37]

then do something else I have a kind of background that comes to Taoism Taoism, yeah and I wondered what is or is there a relationship between Zen and Taoism is there a relationship between Zen and Taoism oh yes, there certainly is when the Chinese first heard about Buddhism they saw that it was very similar to Taoism and they actually used for a while, for several generations the most important translations of Buddhist works into Chinese used Taoist terminology to translate Buddhist terms and so there was a lot of mixing and there were a lot of people who studied both and there are different Zen like everything else is quite various and there are like I met a Korean Zen teacher a couple years ago who was a very active practitioner

[87:37]

of Taoist occult arts and healing practices and all that stuff along with his Zen practice and it was part of his tradition of Zen included those things as part of the tradition so it's different in different places I think here my impression is as Buddhism is changing that this is less the case because Zen Buddhism is having its most important dialogue with Judaism, Christianity and other forms of Buddhism but not particularly with Taoism whereas in China Buddhism was in dialogue with Taoism and Confucianism and so those things so our Buddhism is becoming more Buddhist and less Chinese Buddhist as we go along, it's becoming a Western form of Buddhism and so I think the Zen Buddhism, in my opinion anyway, most of the Zen Buddhism that I'm aware of in the West is being gradually less and less Taoist in tone but certainly it's there

[88:39]

for sure and I was joking before that Zen, everybody should practice Zen only because one of the interesting things that's going on that I think is enormously healthy actually is the fact that although some people might denigrate this or think it's not serious I actually think it is quite serious which is that the major religion nowadays is make your own I think that's the most important religion that there is so probably this is true of a lot of you which is to say you're not and many people are not necessarily saying this is my religion this is what I believe in I don't bother with this or that because these are not what I believe in in fact what's happening is people have many things that they deeply feel are important to them and that they believe in spiritually and they're going to here and there and we have a lot of people who come here and they come here religiously

[89:39]

so to speak and they go somewhere else too and they do something else too and they may feel that going into the mountains is a part of their religious practice or various kinds of things so I think this is a healthy development because people are not going to then get too narrow minded because they have a variety of points of view and I think that's good I think it's good if there could be spiritual centers which have the integrity of their own practice but are open to receiving people of various traditions and various points of view and in dialogue with all that I don't see anything wrong with that in fact I think it's quite strong so I think that if anybody could ever figure out how to take a survey of this they would find an enormous amount of spiritual activity going on in our world right now but they don't know how to ask the question because they say, are you a Buddhist? No, he said, no

[90:41]

are you a Christian? No they don't know, do you belong to a church? No You belong

[90:47]

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