I am very delighted to be here today because this place is very important for the modern Buddhism. A great teacher, Shindru Sujiki Roshi, taught here and lived here. And for me, it's like a pilgrimage to this place. It's such an important place, in my opinion and my view. And what Roshi has done, he has done in great service to the humanity by coming to America and here and teaching the Buddha Dhamma. So I would like to express my gratitude to that great teacher. And I personally benefited heavily from his teachings, though like through his books and very practical teachings are very important to me. So I would like to express that feeling towards him. But today I'm going to talk about another great Buddhist of our time and his name is Dr. Ambedkar.

[01:05]

He was like a very great teacher and a very important person as far as the modern history of the Buddhism is concerned. And there is very less knowledge about this great man and what he has done to the millions of people. It's not just like tens or thousands of people, but what he has done for the millions of people in India. And his life and mission is not very known outside India. So I'm here to talk about that man, what he has done, and his relevance to us, all of us, as to how his teachings are very important to us. So he was born in the caste called Untouchables. And the caste system... Even today, it's very strong. But that time, it was very severe. The people here were treated as untouchables.

[02:07]

In some cases, they were treated as the unapproachables. You can't approach them. Even if their shadow falls on you, you will be polluted. They were considered to be unseeable. You can't see them. If you see them, you will be polluted. So that kind of a notion, which was backed by the religious texts, was prevalent in India at that time. And even today, the caste system has not vanished. She was born in a very poor family, very difficult to get education for an untouchable that period. But somehow, he could pass the graduation matric examination of the 10th grade. And one progressive Maharaja, who had the Buddhist inclinations, in 1930, he sent him to Columbia University in New York, upper Manhattan. And there, he studied with the best brains in the Columbia University, like he studied with John Dewey, Selling Man, and the great teachers of that period at that time. But when he was young, he was very influenced by Buddhism.

[03:11]

You know, that time in India, there was no Buddhism. Only some true texts were found here and there, and people were trying to get them printed in mass. But in 1907, when he passed the 10th grade examination, He was honored because he was the first from that community to pass the 10th grade examination. So he was given the life of the Buddha, written by one of the progressive persons in India. And when he read that, he later said that that made a tremendous impact on his mind. He said that that event, reading about the life of the Buddha and the teachings of the Buddha, had a very deep impact, indelible mark on his mind. And then he came to Columbia City and he studied a lot of subjects. He studied anthropology, economics, all different things. And he could have had the best life had he stayed back because he was a brilliant student.

[04:14]

But he decided not to stay here and he went back to India in 1917. And he decided to dedicate his life to end the practice of untouchability. Now, when he went to India, it was very difficult for him to survive. Though he was very highly educated, he was not able to get the jobs. Even when he got the job, the upper caste Hindus threw the files at him, though they were not very educated and nowhere compared to his talent. Because the caste system was so strong, the practice of integrity was so strong, though you are very highly educated, it is not going to make any difference the way people will treat you. So he fought for the civil, political, and human rights of the people who were treated and classed as the untouchables. And their population, at present, the oppressed people in India, their population is 300 million people. Now it's more than the population of the United States, I guess.

[05:16]

300 million people. And he used different tactics to liberate the people. Like he founded the political party. He put in place the affirmative action program. And he thought that these things will help the people to come out of that slavery or the tail of caste. But he realized that mere external change is not going to have any deep impact. Incidentally, he drafted the Constitution of India. He adopted the Constitution of India, which is the longest Constitution of India. And he built in very progressive elements into the Constitution of India. And according to the Constitution of India, liberty, equality, and fraternity are the basis or the foundation of the nation. But he made a very remarkable statement about these three values.

[06:20]

He said that this trinity of principles I have not borrowed from the French Revolution. But I have taken them, or I have borrowed them, from my master, the Buddha. That is very interesting. By giving these terms very deep spiritual and practical meaning as to how we can relate with each other, not just politically, but how deeply we can relate with each other as human beings. So what it did Like his personality is, many personalities together in terms of, like, he was the liberator of the millions of people. Because of him, lots of people have benefited. He was the politician. He was the economist. His books are reserved in the, like, whenever there is a study of the Indian monetary history, his books are considered to be the reference book.

[07:24]

He was a state man. He was a journalist. He was a constitutionalist. And above all, he based everything on his training in Buddhism. Because from very early on, like I said in the beginning, that in 1907, he came in contact with the Buddha's teachings. And he studied Buddhism quite a lot, very deeply. And in 1956, he found that In order to end the untouchability, it is not to remain in the Hindu fold. Because if you are Hindu, you come up with that notion with the sacredness attached to that. And it gives right to a worldview which has like a hierarchical or the tires, many tires. You automatically divide the human beings into higher and lower and put people in different categories. So you thought that The ultimate solution to fight out the caste will be to become a Buddhist.

[08:31]

But not just a token Buddhist, but if people put in practice the Buddha's teaching. He said that the caste and other forms of discriminations are just the notions of mind. And those notions can be worked out by or can be done away with if one practices Buddhism very deeply or if one trains mind in the practice of Buddha Dhamma. And he has written quite a lot. He has written on economics, he has written on politics, he has written on Buddhism. And after the scrutiny of all different traditions and religions, he came to the conclusion that Buddhism is the best method for the modern humans. And he said that if there is to be a peace in this world, there is a need of Buddha Dhamma. But he was not a traditionalist. He didn't believe in the books.

[09:34]

He was a very well-raised Pali scholar who has written the book of Pali grammar, which is the language of the Theravada Buddhists. He has written extensively on... He tried to write the dictionary of Pali language in four languages. So he was very well grounded in the Buddhist scriptures. But he didn't follow the Buddhist scripture word to word. He said that the Buddha's Dhamma, we can't find the Buddha's Dhamma in the books. It is to be found in the practice. The more we practice, the more we put in ourselves in the practice, the more we realize what the Dhamma really is. So for his people, like the 300 million people in India, he has shown them the path towards liberty. He has shown them the path towards the human dignity. He has shown them the way by which they can attain to what is inherent in them. That's the very positive mind.

[10:38]

And for Indians, he is the founder father of the democracy in India. When all the people were talking about different forms of governance, like Gandhi was talking about the Hindu Swaraj, or the society based on the Hindu ideals invoking those images of Hinduism. Dr. Ambedkar said that the ideal form of the society will be the democratic society. And he very categorically defined the democracy. He said that like mere political democracy is not enough, mere economic democracy is not enough. What is needed is the social democracy. And he said that the social democracy is nothing but the feeling of community. And he said that the feeling of community is nothing but practice of metta. When we look at others, the way we will look at ourselves, then he says that bear comes into being the real democracy. And based on that platform or that basis, you can have economic democracy and political democracy.

[11:48]

So we're giving them a read. deep meanings to these political concepts. India would have been a bloodbath had Dr. Ambedkar not been there. Because 300 million people supposed to be treated lesser than the human beings. So much of suffering. But he never asked his followers to resort to the violence. Never ever. Like if you look at the world around, and if you look at the different revolutions going on, like that time in 1917, the Russian Revolution. It's full of blood, but a lot of people got killed in the name of equality and justice. If you look at the French Revolution, the whole trinity of the principle was set aside, and a lot of people got killed. In India, the revolution is taking place. People are realizing their rights, people are realizing their dignity, but through very peaceful men. And that's the greatest gift of Dr. Ambedkar to India, that it did not lead it to the violent way.

[12:57]

As a reaction to the caste Hindus, he would have said that, okay, like it's not to defame any religion or like that, but had he said, in the Indian subcontinent, the religiosity is a big problem, had he just said that, okay, let's become the Muslims for that matter. like 30% of the Indian population becoming Muslims. It would have been a very different scenario. But he chose Buddhism in order to have a revolution which will be based on peacefulness, which will not be based on aggression, which will not be based on hatred, but based on the respect for the humanity. And then India was a nascent nation. People used to invoke religion and nationalism together. They were trying to fuse these two ideas together.

[13:58]

And there was no rationality. People used to base their judgments on the mythical past, which was not there, creating the mythical past and trying to advocate the past so that the prison can be managed. But Dr. Ambedkar said that the past should not become the rival of the present. We should be very much grounded in the present realities. And therefore, he challenged very often thinking that existed in India, which glorified and invented the mythical ages, which have nothing to do with the contemporary issues and the problems. So that's one of the gifts of Dr. Ambedkar, that he fought to secularize the Indian society. Now it's far from that. There are the forces which are operating all over the places, which are not letting the democratization and secularization of the society happen. But he has given the methods by which the secularization of the societies can happen.

[15:03]

So he said that the greatest thing, or the greatest thing that the Buddha does is to challenge us to think more. Not to accept any authority, not to believe it. But to think for ourselves. And that's where, he says, the Buddha challenge comes. And that's what is needed, he says. Like, we can't be million-mouthed and look at the world's problem and live in cocoons. But he says that we have to think. And the Buddha has dispersed our consciousness to think. To think more than what we can. His contribution to Buddhism is remarkable. Because you might be aware that Buddhism was dead in India for 700 years. Buddhism made violence and it was eradicated from India. Even if you look at the Buddhist history, people hardly knew about 200, 300 years back as to where the Buddha was born if it were not for the British archaeologists.

[16:09]

Had they not discovered or had they not deciphered the Brahmi script, it would have been very difficult for us to realize our sacred places. It was such a violent attack on Buddhism. And Dr. Ambedkar says that the Brahminical attack on Buddhism is often neglected by the historians. It was such a violent attack that Buddhism was totally vanished from India. But it came back dramatically and with full force. So when Dr. Ambedkar became Buddhist in 1956, he didn't become A Buddhist alone. With him, half a million people followed him. And since then, lots and lots of people are becoming Buddhists. Now, if you look at the present population of Buddhists in India, it will be about 20-30 million people. That's huge compared to even the traditional Buddhist countries. And there is a sheer enthusiasm for Buddha-Damma.

[17:15]

Like in India, Buddha doesn't need any visa or passport. He's there. We just have to point out to the people as to what are his basic teachings are. And there remains a huge potential of revival of Buddhism in India. In fact, I would say that the revival of Buddhism in India has been triggered. But unfortunately, Dr. Ambedkar died in less than two months. And his movement was leaderless. So people tried to learn the Buddha Dhamma through the books he has written, by repeating the speeches he has delivered. on the Buddha. And he expected that the people all over the world, or the Buddhists, would jump on this opportunity. Oh, there are so many people. They are wanting to learn Dhamma because it's very difficult to open up people to learn Dhamma. And that opportunity exists in India. So that's Dr. Ambedkar who has done for Buddhism. There is kind of a freshness in Indian Buddhism. And to the world, he has demonstrated something very important.

[18:25]

Like there are different ideologies which people want to advocate and follow in the name of equality, in the name of liberty, in the name of a just society. Dr. Ambedkar, in one of the WFD conferences, he said that he has given a very long speech on Buddha or Marx, comparing these two figures. He said that though they are very separate, historically, he says that we can compare them because most of the Buddhist countries are aligning towards Marx. So he said when he compared Buddha and Marx, he said that the greatest thing the Buddha has done is to show the world that the world can be reformed only by the reformation of the mind of the man and woman and the mind of the world. He said that, like, the good thoughts cannot be sustained by force. It's not possible to sustain good thoughts by force.

[19:30]

You need to have a training to cultivate those positive mental states. And then he goes on spilling out the different doctrines of the Buddha and his Dhamma. And he said, like, for him the problem was the suffering of the people. And for the Buddha himself, the problem is the suffering and how to end suffering. So Dr. Ambedkar had like these three categories of suffering. He said that there is one category of suffering, which is a personal suffering, which can be eradicated if we have the right conduct. If we conduct ourselves very righteously, we can end our personal sufferings. And then there is a suffering due to the social structure. There is suffering due to the moral order. And he says that that moral order is not created by any divine law or is not created by any god.

[20:31]

But that moral order comes into existence because of our actions, because of our kanma. So he said that the moral order, whether it's positive or negative, It doesn't depend on the external agencies, but it depends on our actions. It depends on our karma. It depends on whether we do the kushal karma or a kushal karma. Depending on that, a new social order or a positive society will be created. Now, it's a very interesting twist here. So he relate karma with the meditation. He doesn't relate karma with something kind of residual inside us that we have to purify all the time. And we have to be slow to that. He says that kamma is action. And then he relates kamma, or karma, with the meditation. He says that temporary suspension of the hindrances, like there are different meditation traditions, where the people are very happy to attain to the Dhyanic Mentors test, which is very good.

[21:42]

But Dr. Amitra says that that's not enough. to have the blissful mental state. It's right, we should have it, but it's not enough. We should train our mind in such a way that the mind will be trained to always do the kushal kamma. So the meditation is not something that we do for ourselves. It has the whole vision of the social transformation. And here he links how personal transformation can lead to the social transformation. And if you analyze the statement that I said in the beginning, that the greatest thing that the Buddha has done is to show the world, that the world can be reformed by the reformation of the mind of the man and the woman and the reformation of the world, the reformation of the mind of the world. And I think that's a critical statement when people are

[22:45]

like entangled in different ideologies and missing the very important source of all the problems and all the happiness. That is the human mind. He says very categorically that the Buddha's impasse is, or he tried to define Buddha Dhamma as a mechanism to cultivate the mind and to create a new society which will lead to the happiness and welfare of many people. So this is just kind of an interpretation of what Dr. Ambedkar has taught. And if we look at the key book that Dr. Ambedkar wrote, The Buddha and His Dhamma, it's titled as The Buddha and His Dhamma. He thought that the Buddhist literature is so huge, not all people have time to read that literature. So there should be something which people should have in their home and they should read it.

[23:47]

It should have some kind of good language, some philosophy, some stories, so that people can be engaged with that. I think that is Dhamma. If we read carefully, we find the elements of all different traditions. Though it is very heavily loaded by the Pali scriptures, but we find, like, the four great walls that are so basic and natural to the tradition here. How we are innumerable the beings are, how to save them, and so on and so forth. Then there is invocation to the Buddha and the creation of pure land. So he tried to bring together all the different and the best elements existing in different traditions. So if we look at Buddhism, it's not like this Buddhism or that Buddhism. It's like the Buddhism of the Buddha. It's like the Buddhaya. Just like that, he never mystified or give mystic kind of aura to the Buddha's teachings.

[24:59]

When he explained the concept of Nibbana, he did not interpret it in terms of some state, but in terms of practice. He said that practicing the Novolet's old path itself is an Ibbana. It's not something that you attain once and everything is well. It is that you have to go on practicing all the time. I have a very hard time following you. Could you really say some personal things about the work that you are doing, what your ideas are, I mean, following... Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I'm going to finish here because I was thinking that I will try to give you as much as picture as possible about Indian Buddhism, and then you can ask the questions. So it is not that I'm going to speak and you're going to just listen. So you have an opportunity to clear or ask personal questions.

[26:02]

Because the situation is not very... well-known. That's why I was trying to create this background about Dr. Ambedkar, about the Buddhist movement in India. He emphasized not on the monastic Buddhism. He said that the Buddhism is for the human beings. It's for all. It's not for some category of people. Everybody should benefit from the Buddha Dhamma. And he was like using the Buddha's teachings to create happiness here and now, not in other words. So for him, the Buddhism was here and now. It was not something out of our reach, which we will attain after our death or something like that. So I think I have tried to give a fairly fair picture of the great revolution that's taking place in India. Like the period of 30 minutes is too short to speak about or spell out the whole implications of that.

[27:10]

But it's such a vibrant situation, and it's such an opportunity to bring back the teaching of the Buddha in India. And not just in India, but to the whole world. Because the sheer enthusiasm and the faith of the people in India about Buddhism, and among the followers of Dr. Ambedkar, is just too much. I will end here. And if there is any questions, please welcome. How long has the movement been going to divide Hinduism? And my other question also is, does he or did he reject Hinduism? Or does he also try to integrate Hinduism into Buddhism as probably more methodical on Buddhism than Hinduism? But does he try to supplement the non-military work? That's a good question.

[28:15]

It started in 1956. Dr. Ambedkar sowed the seeds before that. When did he die? He died in 1956. But he sowed the seeds. Like if you look at his speeches, you will find the references to Buddhism. Like in 1941, he says that democracy can take place if people follow Buddha-Damma. And about your second question, Hinduism is a very strange phenomenon. It's a modern construct. You will not find that word existing before 300, 400, 500 years back, never in any separate text of the Brahmanical sources. So he's not trying to attack Hinduism, but he's trying to attack the ideas, like the idea of pollution and purity, the idea of hierarchy of the people, the idea that some people are born low.

[29:22]

So he was attacking not Hinduism as a religion, but as the ideas. And he waited. He said, he challenged the people that if you reform, if you do away with the caste system, I can stay here. He said that if you make an untouchable a Shankaracharya, and if you upper caste people, if you start worshipping him, they have no problem to stay back. But unfortunately nobody took up that challenge to make an untouchable Shankaracharya. Though they were qualified, there was an untouchable who was very well versed in Sanskrit and Vedas and all. And it's like the Buddhist tradition, you know, like if you look at the Buddha's sutras, the whole Mahayana tradition, they are very critical of the views which cause suffering. So for several years I've made a study of the light

[30:37]

And I know that Dr. Ambedkar was a very fierce and sometimes harsh critic of Gandhi. I'm wondering if you could talk about that a little bit. I would certainly, because like Gandhi supported the caste system. He thought that it is the best form of organization of the society. And Dr. Ambedkar was opposed to that idea. So that's one of the reasons, the bone of contention between Gandhi and Dr. Ambedkar. But also like the philosophy in general, like some of the ideas which are there in Gandhi, he was anti-state, anarchist. He didn't believe in the state. So then what was he fighting for? That's the second bone of contention. The third is, Dr. Ambedkar said that more than the freedom of the land, the freedom of man is important. or the freedom of human beings is important.

[31:40]

And for Gandhi, the untouchability was like the last priority. It was the worst problem of India. It was his last priority. And Gandhi was also a leader of a political party, Indian National Congress, which used to fight the elections in the British Empire, get the government, have the government. So there was kind of political things. So Gandhi was trying to co-opt the untouchables. So when Dr. Ambedkar got rights for the untouchables, Gandhi said, no, you can't have rights because you are the part and persons of Hinduism. You can't. You will live on our mercy. You can't separate from us. So Dr. Ambedkar said that, no, no, no. We should have our own rights to decide whom we will elect. We should not be at the mercy of the majority. So when that happened, when the political rights came to the untouchables. Gandhi opposed that, and he sat fast unto death against Dr. Ambedkar.

[32:44]

So you're talking about the issue of separate electorate there. Yeah. And that was also in regards to the Muslims, too. Separate electorate in general. It wasn't in that he touched it. No, he granted the separate electorate to the Muslims, if you read. He granted the separate electorate to the other minorities, if you look at and if you study the proceedings of the roundtable conference. In fact, Gandhi said, like in India, there were nine British provinces and 563 princely states. Gandhi said that the princes of the princely states determined for themselves what kind of a government they want, not the people. And Dr. Humberger said, no, the Indians should decide as to what kind of government they want. If we read these proceedings of the roundtable conferences, all these things close up. Can you talk a little bit about how we here in America could support the ongoing Buddhist movement in India and encourage, I mean, how can we encourage, or what can we do here

[34:03]

as a way to sort of strengthen and support you? First thing is come and see. That will be the most important thing, to come and see. Because when you come to the context, people feel that they have their brothers and sisters elsewhere who care for them. The second thing one can do is to help with the teaching. The third thing is like we can help financially. So there are all different levels of supporting the Buddhist movement in India. So it depends on what kind of personality one has. If one wants to integrate with the society, come and stay in India for a longer period, see what they are doing, how they are doing, one can help financially. So there are all different ways of helping. But one other help will be to spread the word about the situation. Because people have a very rosy picture of the situation. Even today, The people are murdered.

[35:04]

The women are raped in the name of caste. Two years back, there was a Buddhist family, and Dr. Ambedkar has given them a self-respect. And he liberated women in India. Because according to the Hindu caste, Hindu laws, women cannot have power. So he placed a bill in the parliament, which is called the Hindu Code Bill, which gave the power to the women. Because of that, they got the right to inherit the property. They have got the right of inheritance. So coming back to this, like the people are full of self-respect, and in a village there was a Buddhist family, very poor family, but full of self-respect, and their daughter was going to the school. The trashed Hindus couldn't tolerate that. One day, a mob of 60 people entered their house, and they're, oh, you untouchables. How can you have the education? How can you have a good life? They dragged them out. They stabbed them naked. They humiliated them publicly.

[36:06]

They killed them. And this is not a real incident. These are happening everywhere. If you look at even the state reports, like there are the three cases of discrimination every permanent. There are rapes. So it's a very violent form of society. So if one can spread word about what's happening there, if one can talk more and more about the situation there, It will kind of create a support, wider and international support, for the movement there. What is the form of this movement? Are there temples? Are there... We have the places to stay. We won't call them temples, but vihar. Vihar. Vihar is a traditional word. Buddha vihar. The place where you can go and learn dhamma. And then we have the Dharma centers, about 40 of them located in different parts. And so there is ample space to stay, basically.

[37:20]

How many Buddhists did he say there was in India? There must be about 30 million Buddhists in India. Are most of the 30 million Buddhists untouchable converts? Yeah. When did you convert, I guess? I didn't convert because I was born in a Buddhist family. But I'm not born again a Buddhist. So your family, like these generations ago, converted to Buddhism because of their asad? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, who wasn't in your family who did that? What? Who wasn't in your family who converted? That must be quite a story. What happened is that, like, Dr. Ambedkar was a very influential leader. Okay, so when he said that, like, we have no future in Hinduism, like Buddhism is going to liberate us. So when he converted the five million people, they came from all different villages. What about your grandfather? They went to the location.

[38:21]

Okay, and that's it. You recite the five precepts, you recite the three refuges, and then it spreads out. It's like a wildfire, you know, it's like a moment. I like that for you. When your grandfather or your grandmother went to this event, right? Yeah. The precepts, the reputives, like, did that change their life the better, or what? What happened after that? It does, because, like, the psychological feeling that you don't belong there is very liberating. You don't belong to that tale of discrimination and death. And if you look at the education among the Buddhists in India, it's far higher than the national... Even the women education among the Buddhist communities is higher than the national. Is there any collaboration with the Vipassana movement in India? Yeah. Lots of acharyas and lots of people who practice in the Vipassana centers, they are the followers of Dr. Ambedkar.

[39:28]

I'm thinking about the work in prisons. Vision, like, it's a work, it's a great work, but like in terms of magnitude, it's small work. But if you look at, like, the meditation retreats in Igarpuri and different centers, you will find a very significant percentage of people practicing there are from the community of Dr. Apetri. Traditionally, the monks have been with teachers who have palestinian teachers. And I'm wondering, I think your movement is a layman. Is that correct, or do you have teachers? I don't think you have monks. We don't have the monks. Yeah, like some Sri Lankan people have come to India, and Dr. Ambedkar himself was ordained by a very famous monk you might have heard from, he lived in Kusinara, Chandramani. He was from Burma, and he gave ordination to Dr. Ambedkar.

[40:32]

So the whole Indian society, or the majority of Indian society, is predicated on this caste system that's reinforced through Hinduism. How does the caste of the untouchable, just by converting to Buddhism, suddenly gain opportunity? If it's a society that prevents a definition as an untouchable, simply labeling yourself to Buddhist, how does that translate into education or in your particular case? Like as I was telling that Dr. Hamedkar had different strategies. So one of the strategies was to politically motivate the people so that they will be more conscious of their political rights, about their civil rights. The second strategy that he put in place was the affirmative action. Affirmative action.

[41:35]

How does it work there? We have got, like, seats in parliament. We have got seats in the educational institutes. We have got seats in the government jobs, according to the percentage of the population. OK, so this was his second strategy. But he found that it's not enough. Like, legal changes are very important. But what is also important is that people need to change their attitude. Okay, so like what Buddhism does for us, like when we meditate, like when we all meditate, we experience something deeper in us which is like cannot be captured in the identities. So even if the people tell you that you are an untouchable, you know that you are not. You are a human being with the potential to become a Buddha. So my confusion must be about what the society is actually like. Like if I'm an untouchable and I'm there, I'm assuming I can't just go up and go to first grade or elementary school because I can't get in.

[42:38]

My shadow can't fall. So just because I say I'm a Buddhist, I'm trying to understand how... It doesn't work like that. But like, for example, there are like the legal forces. Like Dr. Ambedkar has done such a work that the situation has improved quite a lot. Like my friend and I am here, we got good education because of Dr. Ambedkar. And a lot of people have got education because of Dr. Ambedkar. Can you explain how you got an education because of Dr. Ambedkar? Like, the motivation, role model. You know, the most highly educated Indian is Dr. Ambedkar. Oh, and he was, why can't I be? You see? So, like, he breaks your stereotypes. Second thing is that, like, motivation. Like, he used to study for 18 hours a day. So that's kind of a legend in the community. So the parents will encourage their kids to study very hard, because education is very important. And for me, I had very good marks.

[43:43]

I don't need sort of a reservation. But there are people who need reservation. Does that make any sense? No? Almost. I just keep thinking of it as whether you study a ton or not, based on the caste system, you're not allowed to go to the school to study. All right. You seem to be saying something different. No, like, different places. Like, I was born in the urban context. But if I'm born in a very backward state or in a rural area, my chances of getting a good education are very limited if I'm unattachable. You see? But if you are born in a city, You can't track all the people. But in the village, you have very strong social relations. And you can say, oh, no. Nobody in the cities, you can't really keep that. So there was a study conducted in 2006, untouchability in rural India.

[44:47]

And we found that untouchability exists even today in different forms and contexts. What strategies are being put in place or practiced today by the Buddhist movement in India to try and spread Buddhism to higher socioeconomic demographics so that it's not only perpetuating itself in the untouchable context? That's a very good question. The strategies are like, first is that The practice of the Buddha Dhamma. Like, there is a faith that if people put in practice Buddha Dhamma, then we change. We transform ourselves. It's not that the greatest thing that the Buddhism does to us is to transform us.

[45:48]

We are no longer the same person that we were. And we start thinking very responsible ways. So, like, in terms of education, like, it has no direct correlation. Like if you are a Buddhist and like your economic status will be improved, it's not like a direct correlation, but like the self-confidence that the practice gives you. You can do well in economic sphere, you can do well in social sphere, like you don't get threatened by the people. Like for example, if you look at the social empowerment, not a good word, but if you look at the social empowerment, if you are like practicing Buddhist, then you don't fear anybody. You don't get yourself labeled by what others say. So it's not like direct translation, but the strategies that we are doing is to build the communities, bring the people together, let them think. So we think that if there is a community, if there is a feeling and concern for each other, and concern to help each other, it might kind of give rise to new models, which can be translated into economic models.

[47:00]

welfare, or social welfare, and so on and so forth. First of all, I want to say that there's a basket in the back of the room. And any work person who'd like to make a donation to support their work can do that. We can, because I know many people come to talks, maybe don't actually even bring any money with them. I don't have their wallet or if you live in the building. So we'll keep that in the front office for the next day and add it together and then pass it on to the San Francisco Buddhist Center and we'll see that it gets to you. And I want to encourage anybody who's interested to make a donation. And we're reaching a point in the evening where we don't have to stop But I would like to maybe suggest that those of you who need to leave, because normally around 8.30 we send that stuff. Maybe some of you could leave and let others come closer and stay for a bit if you'd like. But we do need to maybe in about 15 minutes really conclude. But it's a chance if you maybe people will come closer and a little more intimate while some others maybe would leave.

[48:02]

All right. Can you just come close?

[48:40]

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