Celeste, we ended with establishing an intention for your practice that you were then going to go and practice day and night for seven days. And I wondered how that went. I think I just understood the homework assignment. How did you understand, Hakim? I think I wrote it down here. Engage it. Exist with it. Less of yourself, more of it. How can this remain continuous with me? Engage it. Practice it continuously. Less of yourself, more of it. How can this remain continuous? Is that what you said? Close enough. I was. Well, I found it quite amazing that at first, early on in the classes, you had to make this concerted effort to figure out what you said to do it, to put the activity in motion and then look for the results and stuff.

[01:17]

An odd thing happens that if you can get it to become even a little bit automatic and it kind of taps you on the shoulder as kind of tapped me on the shoulder as the week went by. I had a, you know, maybe I suddenly, somebody kicked me off, you know, and everything started to rise and the stories and this little thing just tapped me on the shoulder. Ah, your homework assignment. And it was amazing that it rose, it had a life. played itself out and then the stories kicked in to support it. And then it eventually just died. And it was amazing to see the entire process. And then judgments about that process came up. Shouldn't have been angry. You know, this is like a little bit later or. Can you tell us what it was that you what your intention was?

[02:23]

My intention. Well, what was at the end of the class that you verbalized? Oh, at the end of last week's class. Yes. Yeah. My intention was to observe something and to instead of just observe it in the outside observer, which is pretty common, I wanted to. sit in it like you would a tub of water or something and that means I would see it and I would feel it and I would read it and I would try to avoid analyzing it and you know writing a book on it or something in my mind but just existing with it in the water and not a whole lot of words did come up it was just kind of an experience I could feel it here and then I could feel it up here and the heart changing and then when the initial reaction died off I could feel it you know here and tension which is amazing I don't know what purpose is going to serve to do that over and over again but it wasn't entirely pleasant I felt like looking to do just because it was in the moment it was constantly in

[03:43]

Thank you. I don't know if you want to move forward. I don't know if you could hear any of that back there, could you? Not much? You're welcome to move forward in sitting here, in here. Might be a little easier to hear. And there's also some space in the car. You can sit right here in this. Can we just read further more? Anyone else? You'll manage to forget it before you reach that door? Well, my phrase last week was flowers and falling leaves.

[04:46]

And it just gave me this feeling of changing of seasons. And it just felt like life is just like that. So last week, I had two of my good friends with Zen Center moved on to. Can you speak up a little bit? Yes. you know, good friends moved out of the center last week. And so I felt a little sad that they were leaving. But at the same time, I felt happy for them because they were, you know, going to experience real life. So I just had this very profound feeling of, changes last week. Everything was like flowers and leaves, and everything was just changing moment to moment.

[05:55]

They could be lost, if you see it some ways, but they could also be new birth, if you see it another way. OK. Anyone else want to share their experiences? I guess it's my intention to look at how radio will feel like. Having been in this community and leaving for a while and going back into it again and again, I see how I sort of still attach second energy to the past issues and relationships.

[07:05]

And so I've been just really observing it and seeing how it goes physically when it does arise. Thank you, Chris. So what I was trying to conjure up in your hearts and minds towards the end of the class last week was a way of engaging the phrase you used. psychic energy if you think strictly speaking everything is just what it is so to have some intention to do something with it or to it or against it is in a way contradictory to it just is what it is why would you have any intention other than be present with it maybe not so different from what you were saying Keith about being immersed in it

[08:13]

But then if you think about it, all the time we have these impulses to do something to us. We like it, we dislike it, we want more of it, less of it. It shifts us into a state of being that then captivates our interest in creativity, positive and negative. And so one way we can think about intention is to play with that very same psychic energy in a way that promotes awakening. So what I was trying to do last week was have you get into a quiet, heartfelt space and then let some very personal expression arise in a way that links to your own psychic energy. That it has its own meaningfulness

[09:16]

for you. And often meaningfulness isn't simply just meaning, but it has something to do with deep feeling. When we're inspired, sometimes it's about the beauty of the concept, but often it touches us in a broader or more profound way. So the nature of intention is can we bring up, can we cultivate can we touch an intentionality that has that heartfeltness, that sense of inspired being, so that when the aggravations and annoyances and desires that get stirred up through our karmic life, when they come up, they don't completely fool us. They don't completely take hold of us so that we lose some sense of practice.

[10:27]

So one of the challenges in practice is to, what you might call, tune in in that way. Tune in to that heartfelt, inspired place that really thinks it's a good idea to practice. Well, psychic energy, you've really stopped me in my cracks by using that term. I've never heard you use it before. Well, Chris just gave it to me. I was just curious who should define our terms there. All kinds of weird ideas popped into my head with psychic energy. Well, what I was contrasting. One notion of awakening is something like this. If you think of Shakyamuni, the story of how Shakyamuni awakened, he practiced very diligently. In fact, I think Dogen Zenji would say ceaselessly.

[11:29]

This is the very title of this call, continuous practice. And then he went into a deep state of concentration. He went into the eighth jhana, where we're all sense of self, even a sense of time, sense of space, disappears. So it's like completely and thoroughly setting aside any kind of distractions or any way of being caught up in what you might call the psychic energy of the self. And then in that state, the morning star arrives. Something comes back into being. Something has happened so that when the world comes back into being, it's seen in a brand new way. The psychic energy is outside of what you're talking about now.

[12:34]

So I was... I'm going to get back to that. So what I was saying is that's the classic... story of awakening, which you could conclude from that, well, then there's only one way to awaken, and that is practice eighth jhana and then see the morning star. Or practice with a thoroughness and completeness that all sense of self falls away at the moment of awakening. There is no you to awaken. There is awakeness occurred. And in fact, in Dogen Zenji's teachings, you know, this total exertion of a single life, this completely healing of the moment is something that he repeats a lot. However, another thing he repeats a lot is a rising wise-seeking mind, the aspiration.

[13:43]

And like earlier, he says, Aspiration, practice, realization, nirvana. So I was just going back to this notion of aspiration. How is it cultivated in your heart and mind? And recognizing that that's why we're here this evening. That's why we make all the endeavors of practicing the way difficult as they are. It's extraordinary to see a group of people do a sushin and have their backs hurt and their knees hurt and their shoulders hurt and their minds hurt and their emotions hurt and they just keep returning to being present with it through the process of continuous practice. And then almost invariably at the end of a week of that they look lighter, happier, more

[14:43]

convinced by the process of practice, more enthused by it. Something about any way in which we let go of self inspires us. So if we look at the three-fold way of early Buddhism, sila, samadhi, panya, you know, conduct, concentration, and insight. So in a way, the story of Shakti Noon, he says, through deep concentration, jhana, samadhi, jhana, jhan, zen, that's where the word zen comes from. That gives birth to awakening. But then Dogen Zenji comes along in this fascicle and some of his other teachings too and he says arousing way-seeking mind arousing the aspiration the intention sets in motion if you remember in the first couple of paragraphs he talks about it as a circle it's a continuous repetitive activity the intention inspires you to practice the practice inspires you

[16:12]

to fully engage inspires dropping off the restrictions and suffering of self. Dropping off the restrictions and suffering of self inspires you to practice a circular activity. So sometimes that that notion of the radical simplicity of practice, especially in the Zen school. Just enter without intention, just completely do what you're doing without any extraneous notion of what it's going to create. But if you think about it, that requires its own kind And so part of the way I read this passage by Jürgen is that he's also talking about how to cultivate that dedication to practice.

[17:29]

How to have a dedication that's so thorough going that even when all the other things that come up, you don't lose it. So I thought lastly, well let's experiment, let's see. how inspired you can be by your own phrases and words, and how long they stick around. So what process of practice is remembering your own good ideas about practice. When you sit down to do zazen, it's very helpful to think, now what's all this about again? Why am I doing this? Not so much to come up with a reason, but what's the process of engagement that this is pointing towards? It's like it's a muscle. You exercise it.

[18:31]

It's like it's a refining process. The more it's brought forth, the more it clarifies what the most important point is. and then I was using the phrase psychic energy to say that even though we might say in its strictest or purest form it has nothing to do with what you like or dislike or what you were inspired by or disapprove of what is just is what is irregardless of what it conjures up for you but then if you think about Something about working with the person that you are. Knowing how you're inspired. Knowing what tunes you back in. In the midst of all the different mental and emotional states you can be in. This is a very helpful thing to know about yourself.

[19:40]

And to make a practice of tuning back in. So religion offers us rituals. And one aspect of ritual is this. When you do the ritual and you're inspired by its enactment of a certain expression of Buddhism, of Buddha. The awakened, compassionate clarity of being fully present. And that's what the ritual is, is to immerse into that and become it. And of course the danger of ritual is that you just sort of sleepwalk through the process and fool yourself that that had something to do with living up. In the wonderful world of Zen, and this is a long preamble to what we're going to study tonight, this notion of using the mind heart as a tool, not as a replacement for concentration, but to say that these two can be collaborated.

[21:20]

So usually our mind heart gets caught up in afflictive emotions, deep desires and deep aggressions and aversions and fears and sadnesses and resentments. And it seems like, well, if I'm really going to concentrate, if I'm really going to stay present in the moment with my body and breath, I have to suppress all that or wipe it clean or concentrate so hard But that dissipates and disappears. So there are other options. And one was I was saying was like this sense of being so inspired by the intentionality, the potentiality of practice, that you're inspired to stay in the moment. And then the other one which is part of the territory of Cohen is that we bring to the mind-body experience the heart-mind experience an insight and then rather than it being simply an obscuration or obstacle it's fully connecting to the moment

[22:49]

it in itself becomes a teaching both about the nature of how we get afflicted and the path of liberation. So any questions about that? So if you become aware that an obscuration has arisen, You're saying you bring the insight of noting that it's there. And then what do you do in the midst of it as far as because last time you used the word soften. Do you soften to the experience, not pushing it away, but just acknowledging and being, feeling it and staying with it? Very good question. That very question is part of what transforms it into a teaching.

[24:05]

That's what I was calling the path of liberation. Okay, so here's this afflictive state. What is it to practice with it? What is the path from here to nirvana? What is the path from this kind of agitated struggling with it to cool and complete experiencing that releases the afflictive nature of self as separate from this and allows the original nature of non-affliction to the experience, nirvana. And that's right, you know, sometimes I talk about softening the contraction. And so in one way we could say, or I would say, all koans are about, all Zen stories are about how the human condition can be experienced as a path of liberation.

[25:12]

And then part of the Zen school acknowledges this human fact that we all love a good story. something intriguing about a good story. And we're all sort of curious. It's like it's hard when you hear a strange sign to not think, what was that? Or you see something on the street and you go, what's going on over there? Why has everybody stopped and looking? So this very human tendency that we have. often, if you think about it, one of the main teaching vehicles in religion and spirituality is the parable, is the story. So what Dogen's energy does is in this gyōji, this classical, he lays out about eight paragraphs of what you might call presenting the principle of practice.

[26:14]

And we have another couple to go. And then you've got to There you are. And of course, you really haven't got it until you're fully enlightened. And then you get it. Or maybe it gets you. Or maybe it's like, it's all in the title, continuous practice. And if you don't get that, it's all in the first paragraph. And if you don't get that, keep reading. Try the second, the third, the fourth, down to the tenth. If you still don't get it and you haven't given up, here's a bunch of totally strange stories. Like last Wednesday for the tea, I put out one. I thought, well, this one's kind of hard to get a handle on, the one on . So let's study it. It was hard.

[27:18]

The story that you go, oh, yeah, right. I believe that. Well, maybe that's a dangerous story, and maybe you should stay away from that one. How dangerous it would be if we all had the same opinion on anything, right? Then we'd all be utterly convinced that we're right and exclusive of alternative points of view. So, too. and then see what it stirs up. And it's not like, well, if it doesn't stir this up in you, you've got it wrong. To realize, as I was saying the other day, it's like to know with our cognitive mind, it helps to see all sorts of perspectives. And then, you know,

[28:22]

see it this way and think okay and then think okay it's about this wide and about this wide and this long and it has writing on it and you think okay it's narrow and it has no writing it keeps learning more and more and then hopefully you don't cling to any one of those perspectives and you don't lose sight of the fact that realization is to be in such intimate contact that you experience directly. The knowing can be helpful. However, the knowing is to set the stage for realization. So, sometimes cons, the knowing is very, very limited. Very, very small. A monk asked Joshu, does a dog have Buddha nature?

[29:25]

Joshu said, moo. So when you work on that coin, what do you work on? Moo. What do you think about? Nothing. Just moo, which means nothing or no or something in that way. a weird story I was reading a story this morning and it was about a Zen coin and the story was saying he was making this point by saying well well the monk went to ask this teacher the question that he was working with but by the time he got there the teacher was dead so he went back to the original teacher ask him the question again. By the time he goes back there, he was dead.

[30:26]

And then the person who was translating it said, you know, this couldn't have happened because the second guy actually died first. However, that wasn't the point of the story. The point of the story was something else. So, here's what we'll do. I'll read this weird story. Do you have it on our papers? You have it on your papers? I wonder if I can follow along. You can follow along. Let's read it in this translation. This is the Khaaz's translation. Khaaz Tanahashi, out of the book. Venerable Parsha, the one after Mahakashava.

[31:39]

And if you've got the handout I gave, we're going to read the other translation or do you just have that one? What one do you have? Do you have this one at all? Kazus, no? Look for the end of the Mahakashava one. The back of the first page. Back of the first page, if you've got a book. You can just sit back and relax, and I'll read it. No, try not to sleep. Okay. You sitting comfortably? Yeah.

[32:40]

Then about Parsifal, who would later be known as a tenth ancestor, did not lay himself down on his side to sleep throughout. So here's the point. You listen to this story and then you notice what's notable about the story in your mind. Maybe there's some details that annoy you. In this story, he spent 60 years in his mother's womb. Maybe you think, that's really stupid. Or maybe you think, wow, what an amazing detail. What the hell has that got to do with Buddhist practice? Why did they put that in there? Or maybe you think she was a remarkable mother.

[33:42]

So you notice what's notable for you and maybe you notice what you do with that notability. Does it make you sit up straight and breathe a little deeper? Does it agitate your mind? God, these Zen stories are so weird. Or do you have a moment of profound insight and think, oh, that is about this. That's amazing. That's a very skillful way to put that profound insight into a parable. And as I say, it's not like which one of those is the right way to respond. Just to notice, the morning star is whatever the morning star is. It's being completely seen and experienced that creates the realization.

[34:49]

It's not the morning star versus the evening star. Venable Parspa, who had later become the tenth ancestor, did not lend himself dine on his side to sleep throughout his lifetime. Although he started his practice in his eighties, he soon received the great Dharma one-to-one. As he did not waste a moment within three years, he received the true eye of the complete enlightenment. Parspa was in his mother's womb for sixty years and was born with long gray hair As he had a vow not to lay himself down on his side to sleep, he was called venerable, undefiled size. In order to pick up a sutra in the dark, he would radiate his inner light, the ability he had from birth. When Parspa was about to give up his household and wear a monk's robe at the age of 80, a young boy in the time criticized him, saying, you're ignorant.

[35:56]

What you're going to do doesn't make sense. Monks maintain two types of practice, learning samadhi and chanting. And you're too old and frail to learn these things. You'll only confuse the pure stream and eat monk's food in vain. Hearing this criticism, he thanked the boy and reaffirmed his father. Until I mastered the jipidika, become free of desires of the three realms, achieve the six miraculous powers, and attain the eight types of emancipation, I will not lie down upon my side. After that, he did not skip even one day of contemplation while walking, sitting, and standing. During the day, he studied the teachings, and at night, he practiced the tranquil med concentration. After three years, he mastered the Trapidika. He came free from desires of the three realms and attained proficiency in the three types of knowledge. Thus, Parspa, when his mother's womb was in his mother's womb sixty years before his birth did he seek the way in the womb?

[37:05]

eighty years after his birth he left the household to study the way it was a hundred and forty years after he was conceived although outstanding he was older and more frail than anyone else in the womb he was old and after birth he was old He did not mind people's criticisms and had unrelenting determination. That's why, after only three years, the endeavor to attain the way was fulfilled. Upon seeing him and being inspired by him, how could we be slack in our endeavor? Do not be hindered by old age and frailty. Birth and death is hard to fathom. What is birth or not? Is this old age or not? Is this birth or not? Is this old age or not? The views of water by four types of beings buried. We should just focus our aspiration and endeavor in the practice of the way.

[38:10]

We should understand the practice of the way is no other than seeing in the birth and death. Yet our practice is not bind by birth and death. It is extremely foolish of people nowadays to put aside the endeavor of the way when they become 50 or 60 years old, or even 70 or 80. If you're concerned about how many months or years we have lived, this is merely a limited human view, which has nothing to do with the study of the way. Do not consider whether you are in your prime or old or frail. A single-minded may aspire to study and master the way, standing shoulder to shoulder with Parsha. Do not look back or cling to a heap of dust in the graveyard. If you do not have a single-minded aspiration and are not awakened, who would pity you? Practice the sea directly, just as you would add eyeballs to a skeleton lying in the wilderness.

[39:19]

So there. What was most notable? Let's set aside Doug and Zengi's comments for a moment. What was most notable about the story? Well, being born at 60 is pretty unusual biologically. But it feels really true psychologically. Well, there are a couple things about it. One is that it seems somehow an aspect of his practice, that he had some sort of control over being born, like when he would be born. What it made me think of is a habit I commonly have of like, well, when I finally figure this out, then I can do that. And it's kind of like I'm waiting to be born and then my life begins.

[40:25]

And the story is a little, it kind of works in several directions because it kind of says that, like somehow that he, I don't know, waited to be born and that that was... Let's do this. Let's just work with that one detail. So what do you make of that detail? He wasn't born until he was 60. What do you make of it? I think he just started practicing. What do you say, guys? Well, I think it is kind of a metaphor because of the way he stresses his big pet talk at the end, that don't give up no matter how old you are. Identify with that. It's like, it doesn't matter if you're 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, you can still pass. But what about being born at 60?

[41:27]

Well, I take being born at 60 as coming to the way-seeking mind late. I think it's a metaphor for being decided. He suddenly was awakened to the fact that there was such a thing in practice. Before 60, he was not. aware of that. OK. Good. Yes. One thing I noticed that kind of jolted me was the part about, I think, when he was still in the womb, he would pick up a sutra. Even though he couldn't see, it was dark. He radiated his own inner light. So that phrase kind of touched me. So the way I'm kind of relating to that is, even though who wasn't in condition to meet the teachings. Perhaps he was still practicing dharma, because the radiant inner life is always there.

[42:29]

So the way I reflect, the way I'm reflecting on that is kind of maybe before I came to the dharma, in terms of conditions, you know, somebody introduced it to me when I was like a teenager or a kid, you know, there was still that inherent awakened nature still there. OK, very good. Thank you. So when did he start laying on his side after he was ? He never laid on his side. Excuse me. When did he start that ? Well, in one part he says, According to this translation, it says, 80 years after his birth, he left the household to study the way. One could say that he started that practice. One could think he started the practice when he was 140. Not lying on the side. But what about being born in 60? What do you make of that?

[43:31]

I was trying to put it together with the sign thing. Being born in 60? Yeah. Well, I think that's... It doesn't make perfect sense to me in 64. You feel like you're about four years old? I feel like I'm just getting started. Yes, Lee? I mean, what came up for me was timing. It's like we have this notion I don't know about the egg sperm stuff. But before they come together. But then why put a number on it? Well, because it could have been, from my perspective, it could have been any number.

[44:39]

The actual number didn't matter. What it pointed to for me is that we put our ideas onto it. are, this young boy guessing this man, or this one person to another person saying, you shouldn't be practicing. This is foolish. It's like taking these outer, these things that we put on top of actual direct experiencing and then creating ourselves and our relationship here. If you let go of it, it's not possible to be born at 60. If he doesn't let go of that, this whole story changes. So 60 years is just a concept. Yeah. Like any other concept. Thank you. A question. What was the attitude towards the sutra? Was it like the evangelicals' attitude towards the Bible?

[45:41]

Every word without it. Would you only be using this in a way that was acculturated for the time? I mean, was the syndrome without unfailing, without doctrine? And then I had another comment about the 60s. And what was the mortality rate? read Dogen's writings, he certainly gave himself the license to take some classic Zen stories and change the details. So he certainly didn't, apparently from his writings, didn't seem to practice a purity of detail. You know, he's like, this detail is sign for sign. This is exactly what happened. It can't be changed at all.

[46:44]

Sometimes he will take a very well-known Zen story and he'll change some of the details and arrive at a completely different conclusion than how it's classically concluded. Like he'll take a couple of Zen stories where the classic way to look at it was this guy didn't know what he was doing and he said something stupid. And then Dovin will take it and say, he was brilliant. That was a stroke of genius, what he said. That was the whole point. His genius was the whole point of that story. It would be like complete, complete reversal. So on these times, it was a fair amount of sophistication. Buddhism had come from China, and China had for centuries worked with these teachings, and the Zen school had been very influential.

[47:51]

And even in the Tendai and the Shingon schools, they weren't relating to the early sutras the way they would in Siravadan or other early Buddhism sects. Well, thank you. So then to the 60 years, as someone who accepts the reincarnation, and also a Tibetan way of climbing into a boom, be it a grasshopper or a woman, and being reborn, then once you drop the rigidity of the concept, it's 60 years. What do you mean? Yeah. It's something that could be. Could be. Yeah. It's something that it is not out of the realm of possibility. Even though gestation is commonly thought of as nine months?

[48:54]

Commonly thought of as... Just another sutra about what existence is. Okay. Thank you. That's fine. Just a brief... This was a conscious decision after 60 years? What triggered the birth? I did not read it as saying it was a conscious decision. Let me see. He was in his mother's womb for 60 years. I think that's... What triggered the birth? I don't think it's... That's why I read that. According to... was due. According to this translation, it isn't clear whether after 60 years he intentionally left the womb or his mother wouldn't believe it.

[50:04]

Well, to me, what I see in it, I like the metaphor idea, but I've also seen You're in there developing a certain kind of awareness, a pre-birth awareness. It may have come over from some other place or some other existence, but there's a pre-birth awareness there, and now after 60 years, or however long, now it's time to come out and see how that works. Can you practice before you've heard of practice? Yes, you could be a continuing practice after one month. My question was, if you think of, you know, in Christianity, there's a term of being reborn, you know, being reborn of water and the Holy Ghost. No, reborn.

[51:05]

But then if we take that and give it Maybe a more Buddhist flavor of what we would think of is you wake up. We would be more inclined to think of that than being reborn. So what happens? Are you alive before you're born? Can you practice before you're born? Can you read the sutras illuminated by your inner light? You want to say something?

[52:13]

What does it mean to say it doesn't fade you? You don't find it inspiring or shocking or Illuminating? It's a little odd, but you can't read anything that's ancient about spiritual life or something. That seems, to my mind, plausible. You can't? It's not unusual to run across that really strange stuff. There's a little bit different between those two statements, right? Your first statement was, you can't read anything. Okay, you're right. You know, within the spectrum of things that happen in ancient texts, somebody being in the room for 60 years, it's not too loud there. I kind of think, like when I read this, what I thought you were saying was,

[53:18]

when you're 60 years old, and I'm reading it, I'm 28, and so it's like Bill is saying, you started in your 20s, and this guy here, he's 60, and it was so hard, he had to live in another, he had to live till he was under 40 again, and you're starting in your 20s, so go for it. What it says further on was like 80 years after his birth. So first of all, He had the weird circumstance of not being born. He had long greater when he was born. Most people have the benefit of starting at zero. He didn't even have that. Then it took him another 80 years to get the messy and get motivated. You know, it's kind of like parents say to their kids, you think you got it tough. I had to walk 20 miles to school through four inch and all. . 70 years old is the first issue.

[54:33]

I wonder if that 60 years and being born with a grave here doesn't have something to do with the build of the generations. And that somehow that's being born with all that already on that, so to speak. Wayseeking mind, you know, it's not so much to say, oh, well, this means this, you know, and then you grasp it and hold it tight, you know. I know what it means. It's more like wayseeking mind becomes curious. It becomes interested. It's like, hmm, is that something about spiritual birth, you know, that it's of physical life. Not so much then to grasp that idea and say, yes, that's it, but more that it's something about how the mind, the heart mind, is being used.

[55:36]

How about that human attribute of curiosity is being stimulated. And something about how the normal ramblings and preoccupations of our mind are being set aside and picking up the question of the Dharma and asking a different kind of question. What is spiritual breath? Do you come out of the womb or does the womb push you out into the world? Do you come out of the womb utterly innocent and pristine? Or do you come out of the womb with a whole genetic code, so much so that you come out of the womb with gray hair and a whole set of stuff that you need to start to practice immediately?

[56:42]

You've already got your binocs. You need to go to a therapist. So not to cling to any of those ideas, but to let something be stimulated. Okay. That was just the first detail. But the great thing about it is, it's very hard to think. No, he was literally in the womb 60 years. That would require quite a conviction. In fact, he started the practice in his 80s, which would make you think that it was only 20 years after he was born. But then he made it to 140.

[57:44]

Yeah, he does. Well, I don't know if this is Kaza's translation or Dogen Zenji's for arithmetic. Although he started his practice in his eighties, he soon received the great Dharma, one-to-one. The 60 years' content and towards the eighties? Well, what if age is just arbitrary?

[58:50]

Well, obviously there's something going on, right? quite a stretch of credibility to think this is literal. I think the text is shame that he was born at the age of 60, and then while he was feet on the ground, he then aged another 80 years. Well, this translation says, after leaving the womb, he was nearly 80 when he first sought to leave the household. When he was born, he was starting from zero. He wasn't 50. When he first sought to leave the family life and learn the state of the truth, it was 140 years after he was conceived. So? 60 and then 80 more years. And then even zero. Okay. And then you get to live 80 years anyway.

[59:53]

It's like a regular human life. In China, when you're born, you are one year old. Because it's counted from the time . OK. Well, he's still added on the . Well, then it's 60 plus 80. 140. While he's in the womb, isn't he released from the cycle of birth and death and rebirth? So while he's in the womb, I don't know. It's a question. He got old inside, so he wasn't believed in that. But no, he didn't say he got old. He does. He was born with gray hair. He was born with gray hair. I think that it's not. There is no partition between inside and outside. He got old inside and old outside.

[60:53]

What are the views of water that follow that? The views of water? The views of water by four types of beings. Last one is heavenly beings. Dragons. Dragons. No, no, no, wait a minute. Fish. Fish. So humans see water as water. Demons see water as thoughts. Fish see water as a dwelling place. Well, more classically, they see it as a dwelling place in this teaching. And then heavenly beings see it as a kind of

[61:53]

beautiful adornment. As you were reading the story, I underlined that part as a clue. As a clue. A clue to? To what comes right before it. This whole question of no inside, no outside. Is this birth or not birth? Is this old age or not? And then those are the questions. Is this an answer? The views of water by four types of beings vary. Because it follows right from the question. Yeah. Let's see. First it's hard to find the views of water from the four types of birth. First it's hard to fathom. Is this birth or not? Is this old age or not? The views of water are four types of being birthed. It's like what he's saying there is like a little bit like what I was saying. It's not like there's one answer.

[62:59]

It's not like there's this one view. Everybody can create their own view. It's not like saying, well, which one of it is right? Or be born in their own time. Or be born in their own time. I'm just extrapolating. I think this is about views. by perspective. It's like, how do you relate to that question? Is this birth or not? Is this old age or not? You know, what Gogan does in the last paragraph, the last two paragraphs, is then he presents his own way that he thinks it arises Cohen, incorrect. It's asking you to think about birth. It's asking you to think about old age. And then he throws in what he considers to be the agnostic practice. We should just focus our aspiration and endeavor on the practice of the way.

[64:02]

Don't get caught up. It's really the same. Well, if you look at it in a way, time's just a convention. One person might say, well, that was a long time. And another person might say, that was just what it was. I was in a meeting today and people were talking about, how long could someone be the abbot? Well, in one way, that's a long time. In another way, seven years is a long time. In another way, you're just starting. So you have another 60 years. He gets really literal in the last paragraph. So let's not go there. I have a different kind of literalness. And of course, if this is just cute ideas that you're rattling around in your head, well, then it's just cute ideas you're rattling around in your head.

[65:13]

It has no roots. As soon as something comes up, you think, OK, well, that's fine. But you go outside and someone's stolen your bicycle. Screw all that Zen stuff, where's my bike? The point is, can this ripen and deepen in a way that when you walk outside, the fact that your bike's not there is nothing other than this coin. That's the proposition. So try this question on, precise. Think about today. Think about this notion of birth. Birth is like a new life.

[66:19]

Whatever was the process of gestation or being in the womb or being in the nest or being in the cocoon of self self-centeredness, then something opens and something is born. Think of today, maybe even in just some little way. Was there some moment of birth, some moment of waking up, some moment of being more fully alive, more connected? it is, give birth birth to a stream of fire.

[67:44]

Nobody got enlightened today? What the hell are we doing? Yes. I have these cuttings from Tassajara, these little succulents that someone gave me. And granted, you're supposed to let them sort of lie around for like a day or two so they get a callus on them, and then they can make roots more easily. But they've been sitting for like a month. And they were wrapped in a paper towel, and I kept moistening the paper towel. They weren't like totally neglected, but they've just been like sitting at my door for a month. Somehow it was impossible. All I had to do was put them in little soil.

[68:47]

And it just felt like something was tied. The resistance of that just tied into who knows what. And it kept activating. It was right at my door. So every time I'd walk out, I'd be like, I have to plant that thing. It was a thing that would take four minutes to do. And so today, I just said, I'm going up to the roof. I'm just going to put them in this pot. And there was just all these little roots that formed, and there was new growth. And this story feels really related to that because it's so encouraging. He tells this whole story, and he tells stories of people criticizing him for not catching on sooner. And it just seems like over and over, we have these ideas of what we're supposed to be able to do. And then we can just hold on to that idea and keep punishing ourselves for not doing it. Or we can just start there and do the thing. And then sometimes there's actually even a little space where the thing hasn't died.

[69:50]

He came late, but he still had this incredibly robust practice. And he just kept moving through all of this criticism, which if we take everyone in the story to be him, Just like his own doubt or his own, like, what's your problem, you know? And so I like that. Yeah. Great. Thank you. Yeah, so what just started like, so what it wasn't an ideal start. So what, it took you a long time to get going, even after the non-ideal start. other stories of the day?

[70:52]

So it's a little bit like I was saying earlier. Can the activity of heart-mind, can the context of your life be none other than the context of the Dharma? Can that be such that when you walk outside and your bicycle is stolen, you don't plunge into the hell of afflictions and aggressions and resentments and whatever else gets stirred up when your bike's stolen and you don't know how you're going to get home. That's a nuisance. That's a big problem. How can that be another Dharma story? How can that be another offering? OK. What's the teaching?

[71:59]

How can the Dharma practitioner be born in that moment? Does the bicycle give birth to the Dharma practitioner, or does the Dharma practitioner give birth to the situation. It's so hard if you've missed it. Your bike's been stolen every day for the last 80 years. Every single day, you say, fuck. It's a new day. The great matter of birth and death, the great matter of what becomes, to the fact of that phrase, kind of like psychic energy, what's more important to you?

[73:09]

That you get to vent some affliction or that you wake up and realize the path of liberation? And what does it engage in the alchemy of that in a conscious way? Is it chanting the medicine every morning? Is it wearing a mala? Is it, I don't know, dyeing your hair green in wood? What helps that kind of involvement in your life? This is way-seeking mind. And from the Zen perspective, this holds and examines all the possible attributes of practice, whether it's chanting, meditation, offering incense to the Buddhas,

[74:17]

to those who need them, it holds them all with this questioning. What awakens? So in the Zen school, the question, what is Buddha, is the embodiment, is the sort of crystallized expression of what this is all trying to include. And then when you read the Zen literature, end with sorts of answers. What is Buddha? The cypress tree in the courtyard. What is Buddha? Three pints of flax. What is Buddha? No Buddha. And they're all the answer. And they're just the answer of that moment. What is it derived from the disposition?

[75:24]

What is it derived from the psychic energy that allows your very humanness to align itself with that way of being? And so the Zen school says, hey, read this funny little story. So let's try this in one more part and then we'll come up with your homework for next week. When Parsifal was about to give up his household and were a month old at the age of 80, a young boy, not an elderly person, not a young woman, A young boy, a young boy in the time criticized him, didn't praise him, criticized him, saying, you're ignorant.

[76:31]

What you're doing doesn't make sense. Monks maintain two types of practice, learning samadhi and chinti. Two types of practice. You are too old and frail to learn these things. You'll only confuse the pure stream and eat monk's food in vain. What about your own relationship to self-doubt? I've experienced that very similar thing in other ways. Thank you. Anyone else?

[77:54]

I was about to ask this earlier, but it's interesting because it's the other side of aspiration practice. It's like disheartening. One example is maybe not self-doubt, but doubt in the institution or the certain social conditions that don't feel comfortable. And then there's doubt of the whole practice. And then how do you practice with that? Well, everything an institution has taught you is giving you the resource to do the practice, giving me the resource to practice. So it can be kind of difficult, roughly. But it's interesting. Could you say that again, Peter? The institution has given you everything you need to practice with? In a way, like say Zen Center supplies me resources like teachings or a space to practice, but maybe there's doubts in me that I doubt about the institution.

[79:11]

Maybe like there isn't, there's a social race class difference that I'm not comfortable with. It comes up sometimes for instance. And so then there's aspiration to want to practice with that, but yet that aspiration is based off my encounter with the practice, which is from the institution in some way, which I'm having doubts about. So that cyclic thing. So I just express that. Do you have any response? your own presentations? It's interesting because I don't stay there. Because I become inspired by... It kind of just goes away. But in a way, that doubt kind of transforms into aspiration.

[80:14]

Transformed into aspiration? In a way, sometimes. Because then it's like, wow, I can practice that. What would it be like as it is, and then seeing it not as it is. So, and accepting it, but also working with the conditions to promote what I feel is lacking. Maybe proving myself to make a change in some way, in a conditional way, but also Okay, thanks.

[81:17]

Go ahead. It's funny because before this criticism, well I guess I already talked about it, but the self-doubt is maybe a criticism that we give to ourselves, but maybe we think that we go into practice or we think we might be coming in with it or whatever, to learn something. Maybe, for instance, we expect the world in Samadhi enchantment right there. But is that really why we practice? Are we going to practice to learn anything like a game or anything? Are we going to practice just to read? Because that's what we feel in a way. The comment and the question itself is very ridiculous, because we're not get up every morning and meditate. But that's not... I don't know.

[82:21]

I guess with learning, I think there's been some place where you're supposed to end up first. I think there's some place where you're supposed to end up. Seems like there's old and young. Seems like that's part of the tension of the story. The young boy and the old man. So the young boy is young, and the old man is not. And the young boy is proposing a certain . There's two ways to practice. That's what monks do. If you want to be a monk, that's it. And you're not.

[83:22]

You can't be. You're too old and you're too full. And even if you try, you'll just confuse the pure stream. Your enfeebled efforts won't offer a good example. And you'll eat the food. You'll be taking away a precious resource. That could go to somebody else a whole lot younger and better out than you. Hearing this criticism, he thanked the boy and reaffirmed his vow. To me, it just brings up conviction or no choice, that point at which independent of outside criticism or inside doubt, self-doubt, that it's a point of practice of no choice.

[84:33]

That none of all of those things matter, one point in time. your practice is based upon certain conditions. Well, then when those conditions aren't available, your practice will fall apart. So that's an interesting notion. Yes, Gary? And briefly, I think it's interesting that the voice of conventional wisdom and conformity in the mouth of a young boy, that seems to be what he's choosing to use that voice to a young boy is not really very well developed in his mind. but I don't think it's joking really means it's necessarily the voice of a young person. It could be any person who thinks that way. Personally, I thought there was something about old and young. You know, there's something that's, like, in talking about a deficit.

[85:34]

You know, Stephen was saying, well, what do you say? Class, race. Social difference. Social difference, yeah. Ageism. one of those could be operative in the story. Where someone is saying, OK, well, there's a difference here, and guess what? I'm on the virtuous side, and you're not. I have the authority to define what's appropriate, and you don't. And then what is it to rather than saying, well, screw you, I'm right, you're wrong. Or be discouraged or whatever. What is it to say, thank you very much. And to reaffirm your vow. Again, there's a kind of a request about your workings of heart and mind.

[86:45]

What is that? And again, we could say, OK, now think about your day. Think about somewhere where you were presented with a standard that somehow implied explicitly or implicitly that you were inferior. How did you respond? What would it be to respond to it in a way that just simply acknowledged and let it right in his outer practice. So here's the whole one. is our life is holding up the flower the way Shakyamuni held it up to awaken.

[88:01]

How will you attune to, cultivate, uphold the heart-mind that sees, experiences the request of practice in contrast to the continuous, the repeat of your habit energy. Will it be a little ritual you'll do in the morning? will be something you do every hour? Will you walk around chanting all day except when you're asked to speak? Will you stay aware of your feet? Will you stay aware of your breath? Will you have a mala and recite a mantra? Will you spend five minutes meditating every hour?

[89:12]

Will you just return to disposition that allows this to perfume the world? How? You're the expert on you. You're the expert on how this one gets hooked, pushes and pulls, spaces like, overreacts. Stay close. And then even better, every day you're going to get to do it. And get to see what happens.

[90:16]

Okay. Thank you very much.

[90:24]

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