This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening. How's the audio? Good? Everybody hears okay? Um... Anybody here for the first time tonight? Welcome. You're coming in near the end of a practice period. So we've been studying this book and we're on the last two pages of the book. So I'm sure you'll have no trouble following everything that we're doing. you'll have your beginner's mind with you. And that's the name of this temple, Beginner's Mind Temple. So what I thought I would do, since many of you weren't in the class yesterday, and it is the last four lines of the Sandokai, I would say a few things about that tonight.

[01:10]

So it'll be repetition for a few people. We're in the class, but that's okay. This particular story can bear with reputation. So the Sandokai is a poem written by Sherdo, a famous 8th century Chinese Zen master. And the title Sandokai means the harmony of difference and equality. And the last four lines go, practice is not a matter of far or near, but if you are confused, mountains and rivers block your way. I respectfully urge you who study the mystery, don't pass your days and nights in vain. and the lecture that Sugerchi gave on this starts off with this paragraph. Practice is not a matter of far or near. This is very important.

[02:11]

When you are involved in selfish practice, you have some idea of attainment. When you strive to reach a goal or attain enlightenment, you naturally have the idea, I am far from the goal or I am almost there. But if you really practice our way, enlightenment is right where you are. This may be rather difficult to accept. When you practice zazen without any idea of attainment, there is actually enlightenment. So this is a very famous idea of Suzuki Roshi. He referred it as no gaining idea, but it really is another way of talking about Dogen's practice realization. There is no difference between practice and realization. There's no difference between practicing and enlightenment. So, then Sekito, the last two lines again, I respectfully urge you who study the mystery, don't pass your nights, days and nights in vain.

[03:13]

And that's what we're going to talk about tonight. Sikoroshi said, that means not to be caught by some idea, some selfish understanding of practice or teaching, is to follow our practice in the right way. Not to be caught by some idea, Not to be caught by an idea or a selfish understanding of practice is to follow our practice in the right way. And then he told this famous tile polishing story as the story that explains that, which is what we're going to talk about tonight. So there's two main characters in this story. Most Zen stories or koans are like this. There was two famous teachers. So the two characters are Nanyue, who was born in 677 and died in 744 in China. And he was a senior student of the sixth ancestor, Weining.

[04:16]

The senior student of the sixth ancestor, Weining. So the sixth ancestor was probably the most famous person under Bodhidharma in the Zen lineage. And this was a senior student. And Matsu was... his student. And Matsu, along with Shirdu, who was the author of the poem, were two of the people from which all five of the famous houses of Zen flowed. Two of them flowed from Matsu, and three of them flowed from Shirdu. So these are very well-known, famous Zen teachers. And according to the timing of this story, the way it's usually interpreted, is Matsu was a new student and Nanyue was, you know, his famous teacher. But Matsu was sort of famous for being a very large person. In one of the descriptions of him, it says, his appearance was most unusual.

[05:18]

He strode like an ox and glared like a tiger. His extended tongue covered his nose. And he was sort of famous for being very fierce, this whole idea of, you know, the strong Zen guy that strikes people and causes them to be enlightened. That was Matsu. And, of course, he was very energetic and, according to the books, had 109 ordained disciples, which is an intimidating thought, to say the least. Just that many ceremonies would be more than most people could do. much less training 109 of them. So he became a very famous Zen master. But in this story, according to the way it's usually interpreted, he was a new student. So here's the story. Matsu is sitting zazen. Nanyue said, virtuous one, what is your intention in doing zazen?

[06:21]

Matsu said, my intention is to become a Buddha. Nanyue picked up a roof tile and started to polish it on a rock. Matsu said, what are you doing? Nanyue said, I am polishing this tile to make it a mirror. Matsu said, how can you make a mirror by polishing a tile? Nanyue said, how can you become a Buddha? by doing zazen. Matsu said, then how so? Please say more. And Nanyue said, when driving a cart, if it stops moving, do you whip the cart or the ox? Matsu was silent. Other translations are Matsu was dumbfounded. He was confused by that answer. So then Nanyue went on and said, if you practice sitting zen, you practice sitting Buddha.

[07:24]

If you practice sitting Zen, you will know that Zen is not about sitting or lying down. In the practice of sitting Buddha, the Buddha has no fixed form. If you sit Buddha, you go beyond Buddha. If you are confined by the sitting form, you have not reached the heart of the matter. And that's essentially the end of the story. It's a nice story. So... So what does this say about zazen? It says, basically, zazen is not something we are doing to achieve spiritual accomplishment. If, you know, Matsu's sitting zazen to become Buddha and his teacher says, that's just about as successful as polishing a tile into a mirror. You know, you're intending to become, you're trying to become a Buddha by sitting zazen. So then what's this thing about driving a cart?

[08:26]

If it stops moving, do you whip the cart or the ox? Again, the traditional understanding is the cart is your relative self and the ox is the absolute self, your self that's connected to everything. This is again referring back to the sando kai, the relative and the absolute, the harmony of the relative and the absolute. We've been studying that, the merging of the relative and the absolute. The question is, if you're trying to attain enlightenment, do you hit your relative self, which is what we usually do, try harder, Ed, sit zazen longer, pay attention better, sit up straight, wash those dishes, or do you do something else? And the usual way of interpreting this story is that if you keep pushing your relative self, you'll never get there because to be a Buddha is sort of to reach perfection and the relative self can never reach perfection because the relative self is always flawed.

[09:37]

It's always a little bit off. Sigurisha would say everything is always falling off balance against a background of perfect balance. So what's that background of perfect balance? What's that place where even though we feel like we're out of balance, There's perfect balance. And one of the interpretations is there's someone inside us, the one who is connected to the absolute, who knows what to do, whether to hit the cart or the ox. That's the ox. The ox in China sort of refers to the mythical creatures like special beings, so it becomes a metaphor for the absolute. So instead of trying to polish ourselves into perfection and just rubbing ourselves raw, we stand out of the way and we let this other one, the one who can come forth if we're quiet enough, the one who knows what to do when we're not trying so hard, the one that knows what to do when we're quiet.

[10:48]

So... card is the relative self. Whip it all you want and it won't get you anywhere. But just the shadow of the whisper of the whip to the ox and the true self will come forward and off you go. And of course, this implies that this isn't true just when you're sitting zazen, but true all the time. And this is the traditional understanding of this story. which is nice because it means that you don't have to do anything. You just let the absolute, your connected self do all the work, and you sit back, and the relative self, who's always striving to do everything, takes a day off. Of course, that can be a little bit lazy, and as Robert Akin said in his commentary on this story, Alan Watts used this story as his excuse for never sitting zazen. which according to Robert Aiken's teacher's comment was Alan Watts misunderstood the story, which I think is probably a proper understanding.

[12:06]

So I think that's a nice understanding of the story and sort of represents this idea and kind of summarizes the no-gaining idea, but Dogen, I took this story in one of his famous fascicles called The Point of Zazen and spent several pages deconstructing it. And it's beautifully enough done that I thought it's worth discussing, and that's mostly what we're going to do tonight. The title of the fascicle, wonderful title, is What is the Point of Zazen? So he starts off in his description of the story, Matsu, Zen master, studied under Nanyue Zen master. After intimately receiving Nanyue's mind seal, Matsu was continuously engaged in Zazen. So see the turn, Dogen, very famous 13th century Japanese Zen master, founded our Soto school.

[13:20]

he always sort of turned things around when he looked at these old koans, and he turned it around in this way by making Matsu no longer a student of Nanyue, but a fully awakened Zen teacher himself. He was a Zen master, and he had already received Nanyue's mind seal, but he had already received transmission from Nanyue, so he was a fully empowered, awakened Zen master. And he was engaging in Zazen. So Nanyue went up to him and said, virtuous one, what is your intention in doing zazen? Same question. So that becomes a very interesting question. What is your intention in doing zazen? It's a It's a good question for us.

[14:21]

What is our intention in doing zazen? And Dogen's commentary on this is, quietly ponder this question. Was Nanyue asking if Matsu had the intention of going beyond zazen? If he had an intention outside of zazen? Or if he had no intention at all? Was Nanyue asking what kind of intention emerges while doing zazen? Investigate this thoroughly. Those who are used to Dogen are familiar with this. He ends many paragraphs with, investigate this thoroughly. That's his recommendation. You students of Zen, investigate this question thoroughly. What is his intention in sitting zazen? What is your intention in sitting zazen? So then Dogen goes on and he says, love a true dragon instead of loving a carved one. So here, dragons are marvelous mythical creatures in China and they have great powers to produce winds and storms and they are great truth practitioners.

[15:31]

So they bring the truth of the Dharma like winds and storms. And in this case, a dragon is a metaphor for intention. So he's saying, love a true intention of loving a carved one. Carved dragons are, on Chinese temples, there's the dragon head that comes out of the corners of the temple. So that's a carved dragon. Instead of loving an intention of yours that's a fake one, a carved one, you should love your real intention. Of course, this raises the question, well, can you tell the difference between your real intentions and your fake intentions? You know, is your real intention to save all beings and love everybody? And a fake intention is to go get popcorn at the movies? I mean, that might be one way of viewing it. But I don't know. Anyway, it raises the question of what your intentions are. And also, it's kind of interesting that this dragons are used as a metaphor for intentions because it makes the sense of, well, intentions, maybe they're not so...

[16:44]

Maybe they're more mysterious. Maybe it's not so easy to see what our intentions are. Maybe they're like dragons, mythic beings, our intentions. Where do our intentions come from? What is our deepest intention? Anyway, Dogen, in his usual fashion, after saying, love a true dragon, love your real intentions, not your fake ones, goes on and says, however, know that both carved And true dragons have the ability to produce rains and clouds. So now that's another thing he throws in. So even the fake dragons, even your fake intentions can produce the truth, rain and clouds of truth. So it's even more confusing. Even a fake intention is okay. produces clouds and rain. Even our most confused intentions have a deeper intention behind them.

[17:45]

Maybe every intention is valuable. Maybe secretly going to the movies and getting popcorn has a deep intentional truth of saving all beings. One doesn't know. It's more complicated than we think. Both intentions work if you trust them and give your whole heart to it. So then he goes on. Do not treasure or belittle what is far away, but be intimate with it. Do not treasure or belittle what is near, but be intimate with it. Do not make light or a big deal of what you see with your eyes. Do not make light or a big deal of what you hear with your ears. Rather, illuminate your eyes and ears. Isn't that wonderful? Illuminate your eyes and ears. You're sitting zazen. Don't make light of what you hear or don't make a big deal of what you hear. Illuminate what you hear. Even though we're not actually looking when we're sitting zazen, we're sort of looking down at the wall.

[18:52]

Many things go through our visual patterns and same thing. Illuminate your ears and eyes. Don't reject anything. Do not treasure or belittle what is far away. Don't treasure or belittle anything that happens. You're sitting zazen and everything is a part of what is okay when you're sitting zazen. That was a little bit of commentary Dogen had on the question of what is your intention. And then Matsu said, my intention is to become a Buddha. And Dogen goes, well, that's interesting. Clarify these words. what is the meaning of becoming a Buddha? Does becoming a Buddha mean being made a Buddha by another Buddha? And then he goes on a lot more. And then he says, does this mean that however many ways there are to become Buddha, to be immersed in this intention to become a Buddha, is the intention to become a Buddha? Isn't that an interesting sentence?

[19:56]

Does this mean that however many ways there are to become Buddha, to be immersed in this intention to become a Buddha, is the intention to become a Buddha. So immersing yourself in the intention is the intention. Know that Matsu met that Zazen is inevitably the intention to become Buddha. And that Zazen is inevitably becoming Buddha with intention. Intention is prior to becoming a Buddha and after becoming a Buddha. Intention is the very moment of becoming Buddha. So... He's saying, if you're sitting zazen, that is the intention to become a Buddha. This is Dogen's understanding of zazen. And that intention itself is the very moment of becoming Buddha. So there's this interesting sort of intersection of intention and being a Buddha.

[21:02]

So the reason we do zazen is to express and immerse ourselves in being Buddha. So Dogen is saying that to do zazen is already to express the ultimate intention beyond all limited intentions. want to improve, work on our zazen, become a better person, concentrate more, all our desires to improve ourselves are just part of our vast, limitless intention we have, appreciating with him the wonder of our practice. Zazen is not the technique that we are using to become a Buddha, it is the expression of our love for the immense possibility of what it means to be a human being.

[22:10]

Zazen is not the technique that we're using to become a Buddha. It is the expression of our love for the immense possibilities of what it means to be a human being. Well, that's a real expression of appreciation. Yesterday I said our deepest intention is to realize the highest meaning of what it means to be a human being, which is love, connection, and justice. And we had a lot of conversation about those three words. But I'll just leave it at that. Dogen goes on. I ask you, how much of becoming Buddha is being immersed in intention? Do not avoid even a bit of intention.

[23:13]

If you avoid it, you lose your body and miss your life. If you avoid your intention, you lose your body and miss your life. Lose your body and miss your life. So it's like if you align your life with your intention. Someone used to say that. What would it mean to align your life with your deepest intention? Align the activity of your life? Then you would. And if you don't, you lose your body and miss your life. Sukaroshi used to say, the most important thing is to own your own physical body. If you slump, you will lose yourself. Your mind will be wandering around elsewhere. You will not be in your body. This is not the way. We must exist right here, right now. This is the key point. this section from his 12th talk about... Well, I'm just going to read it and you'll kind of get a hang of it.

[24:29]

I thought it was beautiful. I don't know why I am at Tassara. This is Suzuki Roshi talking about practice. I don't know why I'm at Tassara. It's not for you or for myself or even for Buddha or for Buddhism. I am just here. I think that's an interesting thing, given that Suzuki Roshi made a tremendous effort to come to America to bring Zen Buddhism to America, worked hard in San Francisco to form a sangha, which finally became strong enough to found the first Zen monastery outside the Orient that had full 90-day angos. And then he goes, I don't know why I'm at Tassara. It's interesting. But when I think I have to leave Tassara in two or three weeks, I don't feel so good. I don't know why. I don't think it's just because you are my students. I don't have any particular person whom I love so much. I don't know why I have to be here. It is not because I'm attached to Tassara.

[25:31]

I'm not expecting anything in the future in terms of a big monastery or Buddhism. But I don't want to live up in the air. I want to be right here. I want to stand on my feet. The only way to stand on my feet when I'm at Tassar is to sit. That is the reason I'm here. To stand on my feet and sit on my black cushion are the most important things for me. I don't trust anything but my feet and my black cushion. They are my friends, always. My feet are always my friends. When I'm in bed, my bed is my friend. There is no Buddha, no Buddhism, no zazen. If you ask me what is zazen, my answer will be to sit on my black cushion or to walk with my feet. To stay at this moment in this place is my zazen. There is no other zazen. When I'm really standing on my feet, I am not lost. So that's a little bit of an expansion of if you avoid your intention, you lose your body.

[26:34]

The way to stick with your intention is to stay in your body. Sit on your black cushion. Stand on your feet. Be present in your body. Well, let's see. I want to make sure we haven't lost track of our storyline here. So we were asked, what is your intention? His intention was to become a Buddha. Nanyue picked up a roof. Okay, now we're finally to the third line. We're making good progress. Nanyue picked up a tile and started to polish it on a rock. And Matsu said, what are you doing? And Dogen's comment, indeed, who does not see this as polishing a tile?

[27:37]

Who can see this as polishing a tile? Matsu asked, what are you doing? Well, he's asking, who can see this is polishing tile? Anybody can see he's polishing tile. The man, Matsu's sitting zazen, and his teacher, who's his good friend, picks up a tile and is polishing it. And Matsu said, what are you doing? He clearly sees that he's polishing a tile. What does that mean? Well, Matsu's a... fully realized end master so he realizes that polishing a tile is an awesome amazing thing to do very mysterious polishing a tile just like anything we do is an awesome amazing thing to do Matsu is expressing the deep question about any moment of activity to polish a tile is to inquire what are we doing working on our practice what is our practice So first we've been discussing, what is our practice when we're sitting zazen?

[28:40]

What's the intention that's engaged with our practice when we're sitting zazen? Now, in the third line, we've raised the question, what is going on when we're doing something else, like polishing a tile? This is kind of a famous practice in Zen. We say work practice is a very important part of Zen. It comes from a long history. It's basically polishing a tile. So when we eat oreoki, style in the zendo, people come along and first run along and clean all the meal boards. That's polishing a tile. When we're through with our oreoki and we're washing our dishes, that's polishing a tile. When we're taking care of the altar, that's polishing a tile. All of our activities are... polishing a tile, and we should be wondering, what are we doing? Are we practicing? Are we daydreaming?

[29:43]

Are we just passing the time? So Dogen goes on and says... Whether in this world or in another world, polishing a tile has never ceased. Do not regard your view as the only view in any activity. There is always this question. So, fascinating thing. He's added in the question, okay, you wonder, what is the man doing polishing a tile? I have a view of that. And Dogen says, do not regard your view as the only view. I mean, mostly we regard our view of what's going on as the absolute truth. It's obvious this is the truth.

[30:44]

But this is to state the obvious, which is your view is not the only view. I mean, in general, we have to act. We have a view of what's going on, and we have to act. And we do act. But we should have a kind of relaxed feeling about our actions because we know our actions are based on a view of what's going on that is not always completely accurate. This comes from our vast experience of noticing the many times we've acted on the wrong idea. So he's raising this question. When you're acting, on something, be careful. Be careful to make sure that you're open to another understanding. If we're not open to another understanding, we lose our wonder and love for human beings who all have different kinds of views.

[31:47]

Some sense of if you're not open to other people's views, your eyes are closed. Don't mind me, I'm just trying to figure out how much of this to skip. So I can end by 8.30. You can just quietly sit Zaza and ponder a tile polishing. So Matsu said, how can you make a mirror by polishing a tile?

[33:33]

And Nanyuan said, how can you become a Buddha by doing zazen? Dogen says, be clear that zazen is not working toward becoming a Buddha. The teaching that becoming a Buddha has nothing to do with zazen is evident. And Matsu then said, then how so? Please say more. It looks like Matsu is confused here, but actually these are close friends sort of inquiring with each other about what's actually going on here. And when Nanyue says, when driving a cart, if it stops moving, do you whip the cart or the ox? The ordinary view is sitting there striving for Buddhahood is like hitting the cart.

[34:33]

But we have to practice all forms and get them that right. That is whipping the cart and letting go. So you have to do both. Whip the cart and let go and also whip the ox and let go of your needing to do something. So the Kiroshi would say, try to figure out which is right to whip the ox or to whip the cart is wrong because the cart and the ox are not separate. They are one. This again is the Sandokai. The relative and the absolute are merged together, are harmonious, so you're both hitting the relative person, you're polishing the tile, and you're open to the absolute, the connection to everything, and letting go and flowing with what comes from the dark, the unknown, the quiet. So you're doing both.

[35:39]

Practice enlightenment are one, like cart and horse. So if you do actual physical practice, that is also enlightenment. We call practice based on enlightenment real practice that has no end, and we call enlightenment that starts with practice and is one with practice, beginningless enlightenment. I took on too much tonight. Really, it's amazing how wonderful this is when I think it through, but it's more than I can deliver to you in 45 minutes. I just go on a little bit to show you. In regard to driving a car, Dogen says, what is moving and what is stopping? Does it mean that water flowing is the cart moving and water not flowing is the cart moving? You can say that flowing is water and not moving? So he's going on and asking the question, when you investigate the cart not moving, there is stopping and not stopping. It depends on time. The word stopping does not merely mean not moving.

[36:50]

So he's... There's this sentence, when the cart stopped, what do you do? Hit the ox or the cart? And Dogen's raising the question, what do you mean the cart stopped? The reference is, of course, when you're sitting zazen and you feel like nothing's happening, when your practice is nowhere, what do you do? Do you hit the relative self or do you hit the absolute self? And Dogen says, well, wait a minute. What do you mean by your practice is going nowhere? How do you know your practice is going poorly? Investigate thoroughly. Maybe your practice is going perfectly and you don't need to do anything. Has your practice actually stopped or not? Usually our view of our practice is very mixed up. I would say almost always our view of our own practice is quite off. I remember when my teacher who ordained me was very late in getting transmission because he'd gotten distracted by various other things.

[38:01]

When he finally did it, he told his teacher who gave him transmission that he wasn't really going to teach. He was just doing this to finish up something. And then, of course, he went on and founded a group and ordained me and a bunch of other people. And later on... He was talking to his teacher and said, well, when I told you that I was not going to start a group or do anything, what did you think? He says, oh, I never listen to what people say. Because usually people's view of their own practice is quite off. There's a lot more discussion by Dogen on hitting oxes and carts, which I'm going to skip. skip and get to, after all of this discussion, Matzo is silent. Remember that was one of the turning points in the early discussion.

[39:03]

So yes, after Nanyue said, when driving a cart, if it stops moving, do you whip the cart of the ox? And Matsu is silent. In our earlier interpretation, that meant Matsu was dumbfounded and speechless and totally confused by this whole conversation about hitting carts and oxes, unlike us, who now this evening are very clear about all of this. But in Dogen's interpretation of silence, he says, Matsu was silent. Do not ignore this silence. This is hurling a tile to attract a jewel, turning the head and turning the face. This silence cannot be taken away. So again, in this case, Dogen's saying, Matsu's silence is a great teaching. His silence is the silence of a deep practitioner. You know, Zazen is listening. And living is being in connection with something, with ourselves and with others and the world around us.

[40:17]

There is no way to live without living in connection, even alone, far away from everything and everyone, friends appear. And to be in connection is to listen, deeply listen, to say and do nothing sometimes, just listen. So when we do zazen, we're listening. We sit with openness. Although we sit in a particular posture and often with focus on the breath and in the belly, these things are not the essence of what we are doing. They are just a container for it. What we are doing is listening. We are not trying to cut off our thoughts and feelings. We are open to them, listening to them. We sit with open ears, hearing the sounds of the room and outside the room. not hearing in the usual way with definition and annoyance or desire, but deeply listening, allowing the sound in and allowing it to fade away, listening to the universe, to the heart, to Buddha, and being moved by what we hear.

[41:24]

This is Zazen. So that was a little bit more of an explanation about Mazza's silence. that time. Thank you very much for allowing me to share with you some of my pondering of this beautiful little koan interaction. Going back to the last line of the poem, do not pass your days and nights in vain. This of course whole story was how it would be that you would practice in a way to not pass your nights and days and nights in vain. But I thought it's just such a powerful kind of encouragement.

[42:25]

And on a personal note, most of you know, many of you know that we had a memorial service this evening for a dear friend of mine who died unexpectedly on Monday night He had retired from being a psychiatrist for 35 years and had practiced early in his life with Suzuki Roshi and always wanted to be ordained. And finally, after he retired, became ordained as a priest. He was Maishuso at Vimalasanga and became a teacher of Zen at Vimalasanga and fulfilled a sort of long-held dream to teach Zen. And I married his current wife a year and a half ago, and he after having lost his first wife to cancer, finally remarried. Now he was teaching Zen and married to a beautiful woman. His life was very fully, was the happiest I'd ever seen him. And there was no reason to think he wouldn't live another 20 years teaching Zen and having a marvelous life with his sons and wife.

[43:35]

But that was not to be. for no reason, at least that we know at this point in time, he died. Which is, of course, very sad, and I don't like it at all, actually. But it reminded me of one of those beautiful paragraphs from Dogen's fascicle recommending zazen to all people. And most of you are familiar with this because this is one of the basic teachings from the title. Dogen was recommending Zazen to all people. And after having described how to sit Zazen, he says, Having received a human life, do not waste the passing moments. Already upholding the Buddha way, why would you indulge in the sparks from a flint? After all, form is like a dewdrop on the grass. Human life is like a flash of lightning, transient and illusory, gone in a moment.

[44:41]

So, let us not pass our days and nights in vain. Thank you very much for your attention this evening. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, please visit sfzc.org and click Giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[45:24]

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