This podcast is offered by San Francisco's Zen Center on the web at sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. When was last week? I know what you mean. Which class? Where am I? Well, how's the retreat going? That's what I want to know. I'm in the middle of teaching at a retreat down near Palo Alto. I drove up to teach the class, and then I'll drive back again tonight. It's going just fine. Great. OK.

[01:02]

I must confess that after the class, I thought I made that way too complicated. And I hope I can redeem that tonight. You know, last week I was talking about this exchange. Did you find it? between Basu, Basho, and his teacher, Nangaku, on what is right effort in practice?

[02:11]

What is it that happens within the process of Zazen? what they said. You do? Go ahead. So Basho was sitting. And he sat a lot. All the time he sat. And his teacher, Magadku, came and said, what are you doing? He says, well, I'm sitting. He says, why are you doing that? He says, to become a Buddha. So his teacher sits down and starts polishing a tile. And the student says, well, what are you doing? He says, well, I'm polishing this tile. He says, why are you doing that? To turn this tile into a mirror. And then the student asks, well, then what should I do?

[03:18]

How should I practice? And the teacher says, well, When your cart doesn't go, do you beat the cart, or do you beat the horse? And the student had a great realization. Actually, there the student said, I don't get it. Can you explain yourself? And then he went on. technical line of, at least I think it was, your efforts are preparing the ground and this instruction plants the seed. That was what they came up with then. And then I went on and I talked about Dogen. The obvious answer is, well, if you want the horse and cart to go, do you beat the horse or do you beat the cart?

[04:20]

And the obvious answer is, well, you beat the horse. not the activity, you attend to the activity, you attend to the process, not the formalities of practice. How you're doing it, not what you're doing. And then Dogen, as Dogen often does, turns it around and says, what you're doing and how you're doing it is so subtle It's hard to get at. What you do is concrete. That's where you can make contact. If that wasn't so, how can we get into practice?

[05:23]

What we do and the attention we bring to it sets the stage for noticing where we're grasping or not grasping. Thank you. And then the story that preceded that was the teacher was the student. The sixth ancestor was the teacher. So Vasho was teacher. in the story before was a student. And his teacher said to him, do you trust practice? If you think about it, it's a great question. If you look at how we invest our energy in our life, in some ways,

[06:31]

It seems like we trust that if you dislike someone or something with enough vehemence and persistence, it'll change. Or if you desire something long enough and hard enough, you'll get it. It's like we entrust the energy of our light to our desires and aversion. And that when you look at our activities, especially our emotional involvement in life, it seems like this is what we trust. The perceptions we create about what reality is, the attractions and aversions we create in relationship to it, that whole agenda is where we entrust the energy and involvement of our life.

[07:37]

And then the Dharma comes along and says, wait a minute. That's how you suffer. That very same recipe. The one that you're entrusting your life to, that's a recipe for suffering. Here's a whole other way. Here's a whole other proposition. And then the challenge for us is, OK. entrust the energy, the priorities, the activities of our life to the Dharma? Or do we entrust the energy, the activities of our life to the karmic constructs that come up for us and the agendas they create? So this is the question he's asking. wise a straightforward question.

[08:43]

And then in other ways, a very subtle question when you think about it. Because even if we sincerely said, OK, I'm totally here for the Dharma. I'm totally here in the moment, paying attention, not getting caught up in my desires and aversion. And we say that with all sincerity. We go down to the zendo, we sit down, and we say, I am going to be present. I'm going to sit here, relaxed, alert, watching what arises, neither grasping or aversion, just simply letting it be exactly as it is. And then we do all sorts of things. Even moments of doing that. We'll do all sorts of other things, too. We make up some formula that says, yeah, but if my mind was just calmer, if my body was more relaxed and comfortable, if it was a little bit less noisy here, or if I had a better .

[10:05]

Just simply, the passionate involvement of our life springs forth. And we're taken by it. Sometimes we're aware of why we're taken. Like something comes up, and you just can't help get into it. It's too psychologically important. Sometimes we just lose that sense of alertness and attention. We're just swept along by a stream of consciousness. It's not even all that identifiable. So you start to see. The response to this question has the lighters to it.

[11:21]

You can stomp on someone as they walk into the building and just ask them, OK, here are the basic propositions of Buddhist practice, Zen practice. Are you up for it? And they say yes or no. And then even when we say yes, then some more intimate process of letting that yes become a lived reality. And this was the big emphasis of Dogen's practice. He said, when you live the yes, That's the expression of awakening. Or the language he used was practice realization.

[12:22]

It's a single for them. The practice being engaging, just as it is, and the realization being in that engagement, the truth of it. Any of that make sense? Any questions? Oh, that was kind of tight. That was tight? That was my simple version. Sorry, Chris. I just fell in a hole. You fell in a hole? OK. No. You know this entrustment. Why aren't you saying trust? Was there a difference in trust from trust? It was the same thing. I was turning trust into a verb. I'm in trust. The capture there is you're not making that decision at all. It just happened. It just pulls me.

[13:24]

I sit down there, and it just pulls. There's no decision there. I think it's a little more complex. I think it's a mix. I'm teaching this retreat, and it's a Vapassana retreat. Maybe I shouldn't tell you this for those of you who don't know. But this retreat, there's a suggested schedule. There's suggested medication. sitting meditation, then suggested walking meditation, then throughout the day. And if that's not of your choosing, well, then by all means. If it doesn't seem like a good thing for you to sit at that time, well, then you can walk.

[14:29]

Or if you're really tired, you can rest. So there's that. It's kind of amusing for me to . I think we should do that in the system. We'll have to try it, won't we? And then there's meal times. And then if you want to eat in between meals, there's an open kitchen. You just go Within limits, you know, pros, toes, peanut butter, you know, just your average small kitchen spread. And I was kidding with the co-teacher, Gil Fronston, who spent many years as his institute, now a vipassan teacher primarily.

[15:37]

He was somewhat kiddingly said to me, the formless is more challenging than the formless. To have no schedule or to have just a suggested schedule is more challenging than a strict schedule. The intentionality, the sincerity activated to action, translated into action, comes from within. It's like your expression of trust and commitment to the blue wood comes from you, not from some imposed scripture, as we so delightfully do in the Zen work. way, the withholding way, the reacting way and the strict way.

[16:49]

I mention this just to say that there are many ways within Buddhism, and even within spirituality in a broader sense, of how we take our sincerity and transform into an activity that's engaging in practice in a wholehearted way. So when the Sixth Ancestor says to Nanakadu, do you trust practice, practice realization? Do you trust the Buddha way? In one way, it can be seen as kind of a simple question. What do you or don't you? Yes or no? And then another way, do you know what it is to give yourself to the dormant?

[17:57]

Do you know what it is to surrender body and mind? Do you know what it is to not follow up after your desires and your aversion? Do you know what it is to stay true to be in the moment? Do you know that process? Do you know how to engage it? Do you know the outcome of it? So at that point, it's a formidable question. And then here's Ngaku's answer. He says, it isn't that there isn't such a process. It's that it can't be It isn't that there isn't such a process, it can't be defined. What do you make of that?

[19:13]

Yeah, in a way. Anyone else? Did you say it can't be defiled or defined? Defiled. Oh, OK. That would almost work, too, wouldn't it? of your personal effort.

[20:23]

It's not a matter of if I do it, and I do it just right, then it's there. And if I do it, and I do it wrong, then it's not there. Or it's less. moment is completely itself, no matter how you do it, no matter what your mind constructs as more or less. It's not defiled by the judgments of our human mind. It's not defiled by the activity of our human effort. It's about. In some ways, it's about refining our effort. In some ways, it's about, no matter how it turns out, still a dharma gate.

[21:33]

is less about success and failure. And this is a very interesting place to be able to explore. If you think, how often have you senses in some, maybe not even so well examined, notion that it should happen a certain way? And then it happens some other way, and part of you is thinking, well, I'm just not getting it right today. Or, well, maybe if I have some coffee, I'll be able to sit in bed or something. Or later, when I'm not so agitated, the nangaku is saying, Your sadness or unsettledness don't diminish or define the moment.

[23:06]

They're just the attributes, the content, the characteristics. It's still there to be present. way of engaging. You sit down and you decide, OK, let's see what happens. In this period of 30 minutes, almost undoubtedly, there will be a variety of thoughts. Almost undoubtedly, they will trigger some kind of response. There will be ambient silence. There will be physical sensations. And all of this will trigger some kind of response.

[24:07]

Let's see what it is. Is this similar to what you're saying about letting go of the of the content? Moving into what I'd like to call the process of awareness, the process of paying attention. This is a way to understand . Pay attention to the process. Don't get caught up in the solidity of the cart. Pay attention to the process, because that's how it comes to life. That's how it comes to life?

[25:11]

No, that's how it comes into awareness. How it comes into awareness. Does that make sense? So it's not so much about what you're doing, but how you're doing? Well, this is the point of this coin. Can you trust the process enough that you invest attention to attending to what it is, no matter what it is. To attending to any particular age, no matter what it is. Does that make sense? So it's like sitting down and saying, OK, let's see what happens.

[26:15]

An interesting way to sit is to sit down and think. OK, thoughts are going to happen. Let me see if I can notice the first one. Or even say, OK, I'm going to sit and I'm going to try to notice how many thoughts happen in the next minute. Rather than think, OK, something in particular should happen. That's what . It's my job to make that happen. And when that happens, that's it. And when it doesn't happen, it's not it. And then Gaku's response to the six page drug is, it's not it. It's not what it is to trust the process. So what is our job?

[27:24]

is to stay present and experience whatever arises, including the response that arises. If you think about it this way, there's the environment we're in. And here, there's the random signs of the traffic. We have no control over when a car, a bus, a motorcycle are going to pass by. And apart from that, there's the light, the quality of light in the room, a few random smells. Then there's the sensations that happen in your physical body. have a body. You're keeping it sitting there for 30 minutes.

[28:25]

It's going to have a response. There is the history of your being that's going to bear fruit in this moment in whatever way it does. Thoughts are going to occur to you. Memories. Maybe the impulse to plant a sense. Maybe a plan anticipated. All these things are going to happen. Well, not all of them, but some version of all of those. It's going to happen. So rather than think, OK, I have to get it right. I have to subdue those. have more of those, or whatever. To have the agenda be, what is it to stay present for all of that?

[29:29]

What is it to just stay open and willing to experience it? What is it to not get carried away into an unaware state? So this is more the koan, the fundamental of the koan, as we practice it. And I would say beyond how we practice it. You could say, well, what technique helps you to do that? In my understanding of doing Dogen saying, beat the card. Yeah, the formless is great. But how exactly should you get into a relationship with you?

[30:42]

You have a schedule that says, here's mealtimes. And don't eat outside of mealtimes. And don't eat what's not offered. Or you have a schedule that says, here's mealtimes. And if you're hungry in between, how do you? Do you want an answer to that? Is that what we're answering? Because you started it way early about comparing those two forms, in a sense. If you would answer, Chris, you can answer. The form of eating what you want, where it comes up, if you fall out of it. There is a schedule. If you follow that schedule, it drives a certain responsibility in your practice. And that can be a scary place for some people. You can fall apart and flop around for many years doing that kind of work. And the forms drive a mindfulness in a different way.

[31:49]

There's a certain . I can't talk about . Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge And this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, please visit sfcc.org and click Giving. May we all fully enjoy the Dharma.

[32:44]

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