This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening. Thank you all very much for being here. Hi, Krista. I haven't seen you since you've been back. It's always special. when you do a Wednesday night talk because it's almost everybody that we practice with, you know, on a daily basis. And then there's some lovely people who are maybe here for the first time. If you are, welcome. My name is Arlene Luke. And then I've got my friend Michael on my left. And I don't do talk so much anymore. I've been at Zen Center for almost 30 years and I've done most of the jobs here. through Tassahara and Green Gulch, but I haven't been talking in the last three years very often.

[01:06]

And it is so serious to me when I talk about the Dharma. I did a lot of public speaking for many years in my other life, and I didn't say ums, I knew better. But the minute I think about opening my mouth to think I know something. When the older I get, as you have heard many times, the more I understand how little I know in knowing the not knowing. And that's the great gift of the Dharma that these past 30 years have brought into my life from a corporate life, mother, wife, And general all-around female, I think. But anyway, tonight I will step into and hold this Dharma seat.

[02:08]

And when you're Shuso, you talk about washing your mouth out with the clear water of the Tassajara Creek. And there's a little bit of that feeling inside of me tonight. So I'll make a slightly formal statement. Persistent practice and dedication, neither lost nor gained, neither bent nor straight. A bird flies like a bird. The sky vast and transparent throughout. For who I am, that's a wonderful statement to say that It never stops, this learning. You're always the same person. You've always been with a little improvement through the years and through the part of our formal practice. And so I have a few stories to share with you and to say that I think have had some significant meaning throughout my years.

[03:19]

And some of it is slightly paraphrased. Translations are always interesting. Certain ones are better. But please listen to this. Let me share this with you. Buddhas don't save Buddhas, said the first teacher of Chinese Zen, the legendary Bodhidharma, who introduced Zen from India into China in the 6th century. He reputedly said, if you use your mind to look for Buddha, you won't see Buddha. As long as you look for Buddha somewhere else, you'll never see that your own mind is Buddha. Don't use a Buddha to worship a Buddha. Don't use the mind to evoke a Buddha. Buddhas don't recite sutras. Buddhas don't keep precepts. And Buddhas don't break precepts. Buddhas don't keep or break anything. Buddhas don't do good or evil. To find a Buddha...

[04:21]

You have to see your nature. You could live with that the rest of your life, studying that as each decade of your life as a good reflection. It's a very important part to me. In using the word Buddha, I usually say the awakened mind, which is the fundamental translation of the name Buddha, is the awakened mind. So seeing your own nature with all that it brings to your difficulties in being a human being is what we do in practice. I have another one from Wei Neng. So he was the illiterate seller of firewood who one day hears the passage from the Diamond Sutra being read aloud in the street. On hearing the passage, depending on no thing, you must find your own mind.

[05:27]

He experiences a sudden glimpse or insight, and seeking out a teacher in a Zen monastery, he goes to pay homage. The patriarch asks him where he comes from, and when Hoi Nang tells him, the patriarch chides him. You're a native of something, a barbarian. How can you expect to be a Buddha? Hui Neng replies, I like this. A barbarian may appear physically different from his holiness, but there is no difference in our Buddha nature. Please remember that. There is no separation and no difference except what your mind creates. And our mind is a marvelous, marvelous burden to carry. our thoughts, our ideas. Thank you, Brooke.

[06:28]

For practicing and trying to not attain anything. And in a society, in a Western society, that everything is goal and objective, goal and objective, right? This is the way many people were brought up. You set the goal, you set your objective, and then you... create the goals and how you're going to get to your objective. And this whole practice is exactly opposite of that. But they're telling you to do something. And you're like, okay. Oh, you're telling me no. You come in. You're slapped on one side of the head. You walk out. You say, okay, I get it. You're slapped on the other side of the head. This is the great mystery of what we do as a practice in our everyday life. And now in my seventh decade, I believe it. I actually completely believe it now. It has taken many, many turns at various times. I remember the first time I was just shocked at a birthday.

[07:41]

And I think it wasn't my 25th. I think it was my 30th. And I thought, oh, I thought I'd have it together. I thought, okay, I've done this thing, this thing, this thing. I did my little checklist. I was good on checklist, the goal and objective. And then at 30, I was like, oh. So I knew I was going backwards in some ways. To go forward, I had to go backwards. You heard that expression? Because I realized I absolutely had a life ahead of me that I was going to have to keep unpacking. I knew I had so many stories. And there was a, many years ago at a practice period in Tassahara, Reb was, I don't think anybody here was there at that practice period, but he was talking about how relieved he was. We were on Vasubandhu's 30 verses, I think.

[08:44]

I don't think it was Narajun. I think it was Vasubandhu. And he said, He said, you know, I felt really good. I really felt good today. I thought I had really worked through a lot of my obsessions, and I was feeling great for myself about, you know, here I was in Tassar. And he used a few examples, which, of course, I don't remember. That's 20-some years ago. And he said, I kind of went through pretty much the morning feeling like, okay. Okay. Good, good. All the things that you have in getting a practice period started, Tassajara and new people in Tangario, etc. He was feeling pretty good, and so he went through the day and felt pretty good. End of the first day, he was tired, went to bed, and he said, I woke up the next morning, and under my pillow was another whole set of obsessions. They do keep arising. You take these vows when you do your Jukai ceremony. You actually... embody in your life that this is how you want to live, even though you know you can't keep them.

[09:46]

But you have an intention. And we say it in the ceremony, of course you can't keep them. But they will be in your heart-mind. And you will come back to them. And sometimes you stray, sometimes you come back. Then you decide to become a priest, and you... think you're okay, you're all ready, and you start sewing. Well, for those of you who don't know, the Ocasa has approximately 15,000 stitches. The Bracuzu has around 1,500. And when you sew a brown robe, there's about 15,000, or 25,000? 25? That's the lined, I think, the lined one. Anyway, every one of those stitches, are a teaching. And the last time when I was talking, gave a talk here, I talked about intention, that you have to constantly look at and see what is your intention and how you want to step into your life every minute of the day.

[10:58]

And when you fall up, can fall down, mean-spirited, mean-mouthed, all those things that we do, how do you stand up? And how do you pick yourself up through your vows? And then for me, now I've kind of, as again at this time in my life, I'm always looking at what is the teaching? What is this mind? Someone who's very dear to me today was telling me about a story in a class that the person had been taking, and there was someone who took quite... an active part in the class. And she noticed all these irritations inside of herself. There's other people in this class, for God's sakes, pipe down. Everybody in here has been there. They have been there. They've been either the speaker or the sitting in the class going, please, let's have a chance. And so I think I responded with something to the effect of, well, what was the teaching for you?

[12:02]

And So there was a response, and so I had to probe the person again. What do you really think is the question? What is the teaching for you? And it was like, I have that within myself in how I identify myself, how I want to be identified with. Each one of us has something that looks to be validated in some way and either turns away or and says, uh-uh, don't care, not important, or why do I think that's important? And we have to come back to our breath, these simple practices. This practice is always about deconstructing and that part of our nature. You have to have a good friend that you can, when you live here for any length of time, I think you have to have someone you really trust to turn around and say, and wah-wah-wah, and wah-wah-wah, and wah-wah-wah, and You have to have the Greta Greip.

[13:04]

That's my name. I have lots of names for the characteristics within myself. Greta Greip is one. Melba Marner is another. Melba, she's a good one. She can visit, not so much anymore, but she visited quite often at certain times in my life and still comes back to visit. And I actually have to claim my way of doing it is I have to say, Melba, Are you here for a visit? Are you going to hang around? I have to declare. And I would invite each one. Danny Detail is a really good one for some people I know in this room. Some of you who are very dear to my heart. The Danny Detail, and I see you all smiling extremely well. And Danny Detail is, he's a good one. He's a good one. You can see it surpasses gender. It surpasses gender. Because if you don't keep, if you don't, and I will use Diane's words that I say, you treat it seriously, but you don't take it seriously.

[14:10]

Within the part of you that is separate, alone, you have to just acknowledge it. And you have to respect it. By treating it seriously. But you do not take it seriously. Because actually it's not. What are you going to do? Everybody in this room. There was a talk. There are a few of you who have been around enough. If not, you're going to hear it for the first time. The length of time you stay at Zen Center, you will hear this story many times. So Katagiri Roshi was here with Suzuki Roshi, helping him with certain forms. Ed, what year did Katagiri come from? Do you remember? Anyway, he came. It was in the 70s, I think. Earlier than that in the 60s, okay. And so anyway, then he went to Minneapolis, and he was in a big fundraiser.

[15:13]

I mean, everybody did so much work to get this fundraiser, to get this Zendo started. And so Category was a very small man, as you might expect, and he got up. And he had that beautiful poise that often these young, starting as young monks, these Japanese teachers have come over and taught us. And he just looked at everybody and he said, his opening statement was to these Westerners, everybody in this room is going to die. They didn't raise any money, thus have I heard. It was not a success. We are now, 50, 60 years later, we've definitely, those who practice, understand impermanence, that you can't hold on to anything. And all these words, I now can say, as 30 years later and now almost 72, nothing is permanent.

[16:22]

And you still have to meet the fact that we want to hold on to something that has substantiation. And that's what our practice is. It's no more, it's no less. In my experience, other than treat it seriously, don't take it seriously. Ask yourself these deep questions. What is the teaching in this particular instance? What is this person that's interrupting? What is this person that's too noisy, that's bothering the Jisha with the Han, Jiko with the Han, you know, talking to the Tanto. And the Jiko is very carefully trying to listen to how the Han, when the roll-down is going. And the speaker is like chatting, doing something, as you might know that was me. And then for all of us, no matter what side we're on, what is the teaching? When can you give yourself permission to see what you're feeling, accept that you have these feelings, and not go off into another story, but come back to ask yourself, what is the teaching?

[17:30]

And not look for the answer. It doesn't come right away. Always. Sometimes it takes a lot. We have the stick, right? We have a lot of sticks. This is supposed to carry down, you know, we do this when you bow and when you lift up and when you're doing the bows in the full moon ceremony and you're bringing the Buddhas into the room. This is what this hook is about. This is one story that we have about it. We have a lot of stories, right? We're made up of stories about this. But some of the teachings for me have stayed with me these last 30 years and have made a difference. And sometimes it takes a month. Sometimes it takes two months, sometimes it takes two years. Give yourself permission. If you have an intention to practice, when you get up in the morning, ask yourself, am I open to practicing with what's in front of me? We have a tremendous difficult time right now, and

[18:39]

And in that difficult time, there's a certain similarity that I see from the time when the young people out of the colleges were coming to practice then because they were so disillusioned with the way Middle America was going. And they came from wonderful schools. They came from everyday schools. And now the millennials are doing that. They're coming back to say, What is, what is, what has meaning? What does this mean? And then you're disappointed in this practice. Where are you caught? You have an expectation again? Oh, yeah. We can't get out of our expectations. Most of the time we live like that until we can see we're holding on to expectations. And Sazam can be a lot of fun when that mind's coming up. How many of you have had that experience of different minds in Zazen?

[19:41]

I've built many... I've done many projects in Zazen through the years. I think the original nature, which is a great mystery because we just read about that and we try to invoke it. What is our original nature? Who... was my husband when I saw him in the form he was for 21 years, and then I saw him on the bed, and that form wasn't any longer him. That is a koan for me. That is a koan in a deep way. We've lost two more wonderful, special friends. They're here, they're not here. How do we find the comfort? I think. Now, three years out from Die Gun Dying, I think it's because I understand something deeper than I ever did before.

[20:47]

And I did a lot of hospice work. I did a lot of taking care of three of the four parents. But it changed. It changed when that love of my life died. It was different. It was another whole teaching for me. And every day, and it comes back. There's ease. I have these times of ease. And then something comes back. And I'm right back in this incredible level of sorrow. And then sometimes when I'm sitting in my little hut at 370 Page, I look around at this room and I go, what happened? Who are you? What are you doing here? You're in San Francisco. You're living in a flat. You have two wonderful flatmates. But what happened? You know, you had ideas of who you were going to be. You had goals. And life kind of kept throwing little things at you. How did I end up in San Francisco? How do I turn that in that indeed it has been a jewel?

[21:52]

It has been a deep jewel, but it's kind of like, oh, I grew up in Manhattan Beach, California. I grew up on the ocean. I grew up on the beach. I grew up in a very casual area. I'm still friends that I've gone to grade school with. We still keep in touch. The nice thing about being in the 70s, we're not comparing each other to how we did in our lives or how the kids are or how well we've raised our children. Oh, my son or my daughter. We've stopped that now. Now we just talk about what is our intention. And what is the teaching? And everything is impermanent. Practices if your head is on fire. Those are really important words, I think, that has some meaning as time goes on in life experiences. And that doesn't mean that I'm minimizing the various tests and pain that each one of us have had.

[22:55]

I am not minimizing the suffering, and the courage that many people in this room have had to come in. But we still have to go back to the center. What is our intention? How do we want to live our lives for the rest of our time? What's unfinished? And I would invite you as you practice, because the dog days of summer are coming up. They're not quite here yet, but there's a time when we have such space that That it's like, oh, you're kidding. I have to get up again. Oh, I don't want to get up. Oh, my gosh. What? I have to go at 530? Oh, no, I don't. Well, I'd rather go. And then you have to ask your question that goes on. Is this working? Am I in the right place? The beautiful thing about this practice that I understand is you are not obligated. You are here because you want to be.

[23:56]

You want to examine those unexamined assumptions in your mind. You want to see what it is when you don't do anything right. You go, ah, I did it again. Damn. What is it? Well, I ever learned, you know? And then you can watch your mind trying to go into that story. Go off onto that, you know, leaning as we talk, leaning in, averting, standing upright, sitting upright, being upright. And being upright means I think. going to read you something. And then I think, you know, I don't have a watch anymore. I'm not an Eno. I haven't been an Eno in a long time. Anybody know how we're doing on time? I'm okay? How much time do I? What time is it? Oh, great. You could go home a little early, right? It's not bad. That's not bad. I was always happy on Wednesday nights when somebody gave a short talk. I was like, I'm not going to beg him to stay up.

[24:57]

Oh, please, get me more. Treat it seriously. Don't take it seriously. I have been, I angst so much. I mean, I had the humor and said, well, it's a mystery. And I talked to one of my flatmates and said, next time I say I'll do this, tell me no. And she said, no, I will not say that to you. I'll say, oh, how can we... I don't remember what it was, but it was something about good for you or how great, something. Oh, I'm glad to hear that or something. And I was like, no, slap me. And I, you know, it's not that I mind speaking in public. I've done that most of my working career, but I do, I do think when we're coming up here from this seat that I have to treat it very seriously and I can't take it seriously. if that keeps getting into the penetration, there is nothing special, nothing holy, vast emptiness.

[26:05]

All those words are in the part of our everyday life as we live it in community. And for those of you that are total introverts, it's easier for you than these few of us that are extroverts. It's hard if you're an extroverted Zen Center. It's very hard. were useful on occasion, but not always. But I want to read you... In all the years, I had never really paid any attention to this book. And Paula and I, when we were getting ready for her jukai, I said, let's just read this together. And I'm not going to... Anyway, we found many treasures that we both enjoyed. But I thought... Because of a conversation I had with another former resident, who I also love 10 times beyond forever, and he was trying to tell me something, and I went, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, wait a minute, we got to back up on this.

[27:10]

And then I want to share this, because this little book is about, it's in the back of who these stories were, but this is all from the early days. for the most part. So there's great little stories. It was really well done. Ed, do you remember, did Michael do this? Well, I'm just looking. I've never seen, I have never seen a book without Chadwick's name on it. I don't see his name on this. This one. Zen is right here. I think it is Chadwick. Well, okay. Good for you, David. What? Oh, okay. Well, I'll read you one of the original stories because these are really nice. If you have any question in one way of what it was like in the early days, this is light, and it's quite nice.

[28:10]

A brief verse that has always been recited at the Zen Center goes like this. Great robe of liberation, field far beyond form and emptiness. Wearing Buddha's teaching, saving all beings. That was one translation. There have been many through the years. In the early 60s, this was chanted only in Japanese. You say it every morning. No one knew what it meant. One day, a student went to Suzuki Roshi and asked, what is the meaning of the chant we do right after Zazen? Suzuki said, I don't know. Katagari-sensei, his assistant teacher, started going through the drawers looking for a translation. Suzuki gestured to him to stop. Then he turned to the student, pointed to his heart, and said, it's love. So I thought that was something wonderful that every morning as you're putting yurakasu on the top of your head, or you put your hands together and you're chanting,

[29:18]

daizai geida. You'll remember that Suzuki Roshi told a student sometime in the 60s, it's love. It keeps coming back to that, doesn't it? And it's not so easy, so I have a lot of respect for the difficulties that we all have. Thank you very much for coming. For those of you I don't know, Thank you for bearing with me. Those of you I do know, thank you for bearing with me. It's been lovely. But this may be my swan song, David. Yeah. So thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered at no cost, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click giving.

[30:22]

May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[30:25]

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