This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. living at Tassajara for how long? Four years. So today, he's coming in and we're going to have a departing monk ceremony for him. And I just wanted to mention that on the way in, Tassajara rode with him and he told me that since he graduated from college he's mostly been just going to he's been at various Dharma centers almost the whole time since he left college and so now he's for the first time actually going out into the world I think was the intention of continuing this practice but you know not in a Dharma center not in a public Dharma center so we're gonna

[01:28]

I think maybe in the ceremony you might say, going into the marketplace, might you say that? Yeah. So he's going to go into the marketplace, going to try to get a job with gift-bestowing hands. I think he's going to try to share his Dharma practice and his monastic experience out in the world. So we'll celebrate his time here and his departure today. And he shows the example of a human being grows up in a family and goes to school and then maybe enters a monastery for a while and then leaves the monastery.

[02:33]

And then maybe comes back to the monastery. and then maybe leaves the monastery. So this is a pattern that has... which we're doing. We've entered the monastery, and some of us will leave the monastery, and some of us will come back to the monastery. So I first entered this... I visited this monastery 50 years ago last summer, and then I did my first practice period in January of 69. And then I left. And then I came back in January of 70. And I left. And I came back in 72 to be Shiso. And then I left. And then I came back about 20 more times to lead practice periods. And then I left. Led the practice period and left.

[03:35]

Left the practice period and left. So there's this pattern. And some of you stayed here quite a long time already. And Benson, four years, is a pretty long time. And someone in this group said to me that who's come to this monastery and is probably going to leave. And maybe she'll come back. But she's here now. And she told me that she wants... She wants to be... I think she said she wants to be like the boatman. So in our lineage, we have the ancestor Yakusan Igen, who is the teacher of Yunyan, who is the teacher of Dongshan. Yakusan Igen Dayosho, Ungan Donjo Dayosho, Tozan Ryokai Dayosho.

[04:35]

So... Tozan Ryokai is the so-called founder of Soto Zen in our lineage in China. And he had two main Dharma brothers. One's named Da Wu. And they had that famous interaction about there's one who's not busy. Case 21 of the Book of Serenity. But he had another Dharma brother who we call the boat man. And they all studied with their teacher a long time. The boatman, I think, studied with his teacher for 30 years and maybe stayed in the monastery until his teacher died. I'm not sure. But anyway, after the teacher died, the man who got the title boatman in Zen, he said to his Dharma brothers, you guys are going to be abbots of monasteries. You're going to teach in public.

[05:38]

That's not my style. I'm kind of awkward and messy and unruly. But he was a Dharma successor of the great Yaoshan. He said, so I'm going to go off and kind of hide out somewhere and I'll tell you where I am. And if you run into somebody who has a lot of ability, send them to me and I'll take care of them or her. So then he went off and he, for quite a while, I don't know how long, his job was a ferryman. He would ferry people across the river. And I think the place he did it was around Shanghai on the Yangtze River. The Yangtze River is actually the last few miles of what's called the Long River.

[06:41]

The last few miles is where Shanghai is. So he ferried people across. And so he was a Zen master who most people didn't know. He was a successor of this famous Zen master. But he interacted with people on a daily basis, taking them across the river. And finally one of his Dharma brothers did run into somebody who was already a teacher but needed some help. So he sent this teacher, this Dharma teacher to the boatman and the boatman finished him off. So as I said, one of the One of you wants to be like the boatman, wants to leave here and hide out someplace in the city and help people.

[07:49]

And the great master Matsu had 139 enlightened disciples. He had thousands of disciples or students. but he had 139 enlightened disciples. And I think that 50 of them were this type that hid in the city. 89 became abbots. And 50 were like out and about in China, someplace, helping people with the Dharma. And again, in some cases, people didn't know who they were. As you know, we have a prerequisite to do practice spirits at Tassajara.

[09:08]

I think the current way of putting it is a residential practice period at Green Gulch or City Center. Some people do practice periods at City Center non-residentially, but I think that they don't count that now as a prerequisite for Tassajara. We want people to know a little bit what it's like to be in a container. Like at Green Gulch, in the early days, people used to come and do practice periods I shouldn't say early days. In the early days, we did not have practice periods at Green Gulch. So 1972, I wish you so here. And then I went to Green Gulch to be Tonto. And we didn't have practice periods at that time. It was quite a while before we had practice periods. Anyway, now we have practice periods. And when we had our first practice periods at Green Gulch, people... were residential but they could go out on their personal day. But we had some really unfortunate things happen when they went out.

[10:13]

They went out and ingested intoxicants on some occasions and came back intoxicated on hard drugs. So we stopped having people go out on their personal days and now they stay the whole time in the valley. So if you go to Green Gauch for a practice period and you stay there the whole time, you get a little feeling of what it's like to stay in a valley for about two months and see how maybe you want to leave the valley during the two months. So then if you apply to Taos Sahara, you might think, well maybe if I go to Taos Sahara for three months, I might think, well maybe I'd like to leave Taos Sahara too. So anyway, you learn what that's like. You learn how you want to get out And then maybe you don't leave. You get over that. So at Tatsahara, people usually, when they come for practice period, especially the first one, after two or three minutes, they think of leaving.

[11:19]

Or after, usually they don't think of it right after Tangari. Right after Tangari, they think, this is cool. You want me to work? Okay, fine. But sometimes during the practice period, most people during their first practice period think, what have I gotten myself into? This is a big mistake. Why did they let me come? Et cetera. When my daughter was tall enough... to ride on the Space Mountain ride at Disneyland. Space Mountain is a roller coaster. I don't know if they still have it. Does anybody know? They still have it? Yeah. So when she was old enough, she was tall enough to ride on it, she rode on it. But she spent the whole time down on my feet.

[12:23]

And after we got out, she said, they shouldn't let kids under 15 ride this thing. So anyway, during the practice, you may say, you shouldn't let people like me be here. So anyway, several people are already planning to leave. And I said, well, now that you're here, if you told me before that you wanted to leave, I would say fine. But now that you're here, I'd like to help you make it to the end. Of course, you can leave if you really think it's a good idea. some of my dear old friends have come to me over to that Abba's cabin and they walk in and say, I'm leaving. I say, of course you can leave, but please, first of all, settle down and if you can really be settled here and not be running away from here, I'll support you to leave.

[13:30]

But if you're trying to run away, I think when you get over the hill, you're just going to try to run away over there. and perhaps try to run away back here. But anyway, if you're settled here, and you say to me, I'm settled. I'm not trying to run away from the difficulty. I just think it's good to leave. I'll support it. I said that to a number of people. Some who became Dharma successors. Nobody ever came back. One time somebody came back. I said, if you settle down here and you tell me you're settled and you're fine being here, you're not trying to escape from the difficulty, you just think it's better to be out of here. I'll support it. So one person came back to me and said, I'm fine. I'm settled. I'm not running away. I just think there's something else I need to do this fall. And I said, okay.

[14:33]

And she left. And she called back a couple days later and said, I'm pregnant. That's what she had to do. She didn't know when she told me that, but she felt there's something else I need to do, and that was it. So, it's normal to think that this is hell at some point. And again, one person said here one time, he was down in the lower part of Tosahara, he was sitting on the toilet, You know, it was a beautiful day. He knew he was in paradise and he thought it was hell. But he knew that was ridiculous. But that's how he felt. So, remember, you asked to be here, you thought it was a good idea, and now you don't. That's normal. That's what this place is for, is to deal with, I want to be someplace else.

[15:37]

I came to a place that I wanted to be, where I thought I might have trouble being in the place, and I am having trouble, but that's what I'm here for, is to settle down in a place I'm having trouble settling down. And not everybody has told me they want to leave. Later you'll tell me that. And of course, someday you will leave. Yes, we all will leave, but right now, let's try to finish the practice period even though... And then there's like, okay, I'm not leaving the tasahara, but I'm having trouble settling in the zendo. So, a number of people are having physical difficulty. particularly up in the zendo.

[16:44]

Some people are having physical difficulty. Outside the zendo, for example, when it gets really cold, they're having some difficulty. The zendo is actually warmer than outdoors sometimes. But they're having trouble in the zendo. They're having bodily trouble. They're having postural trouble sitting. They're having pain and discomfort. They're having difficulty finding the right posture and it's quite a struggle. so the difficulty with our posture and our mind up in this end of all these difficulties I'm I'm suggesting are calling to us are calling to us for compassion if we can listen to these calls with compassion we will that means we will practice if we practice generosity in response to the calls of our body and mind for compassion if we respond with generosity and ethical discipline and patience and diligence we will enter samadhi

[18:25]

naturally without any special technique just a little instruction will be sufficient if we're being really compassionate with our body-mind process people who are not really compassionate with the body-mind process If they try to concentrate, they need pretty heavy duty concentration practices. Because they're trying to concentrate, it's very difficult to concentrate if you're not generous with your body and mind. And you're not careful and tender and gentle and attentive and patient. If you don't do those practices and you try to practice concentration, it's pretty hard. if you do do those practices thoroughly, you naturally want to calm down and relax and open up and be here.

[19:44]

Because you want to be here because you know how to take care of here. And also you're being asked to be here. Your body and mind is asking for compassionate presence and you're with it. You're on board with that. okay, I'll join the Compassion Project for my problems. So the story, one of the stories I started with is a story of a person who I think probably was pretty good at being compassionate with himself. He probably had some problems, but he was already a teacher of meditation. So he went to see the Buddha and Buddha said, not now. And he said, yes, but we might die this afternoon and so on.

[20:49]

And then the Buddha gave him instruction, which is kind of advanced instruction in a way. Very simple. Not really doing anything. The Buddha basically gave him instruction, give up doing stuff. Stop meddling. with your body and mind. Just let it be. So this is a very basic concentration instruction. If something happens, let that just be that. Give up thinking about it and meddling with it and running around. Give up running around with it. give up discursive thought, give up thinking. Just in the scene, there will be just a scene. In the herd, there will be just a herd. But if I'm not being kind to myself when I hear that instruction, it's going to be really hard for me to let things be because I'm not letting them be because I'm not paying attention to them because I'm trying to get away from my pain rather than listen to it or I'm trying to

[22:09]

Anyway, I'm trying to manipulate and control myself rather than welcome myself and be careful and gentle with myself and patient with myself. And it's hard for me to let things be unless I'm already compassionate with them. Or rather, the final touch of compassion in a way is concentration, is being calm and relaxed and open and playful with our struggle. Doesn't mean the struggle's gone. If your body's falling apart, like some people's bodies here are falling apart, right? Is anybody's body here falling apart? A few people raised their hand, you know? Did you hear that I went to the Grand Canyon? Did you? Yeah. I went to the Grand Canyon. I rode in a boat. with Boatman. He's going to come to visit Green Gulch.

[23:12]

And we're going down the river in the Grand Canyon. And what do they say about the Grand Canyon? It is falling apart. And it's been doing it for a billion years. Maybe not that long. But for millions of years, the Grand Canyon has been falling apart. And some of us are falling apart. Maybe all of us are falling apart. And our body and mind that's falling apart is calling for compassion. And everybody is calling everybody, but it's also calling somebody who is really local. The one who sort of feels like it's their body. That one has been called too. So it's calling for compassion and... I think people are trying to take care of their bodies, but some people who are really trying sincerely to take care of their bodies, because their bodies are calling and they're paying somewhat attention to them, they're not being as kind to their body as they could be.

[24:21]

They're sometimes saying to their body, shut up. Be a good body. Don't cry. Stop. You're a big girl. Don't cry. Your big boy, shut up. And they know they're being mean to their sweet little body that's calling for help. They know it's mean, but they're doing it anyway. They're mad at their body for falling apart. There's some people like that. They told me that that's what they're doing to their sweet little suffering, impermanent, fragile, falling apart body and mind. Some people think Zazen is sitting upright and still and having no problems. You know, Zen Center tells us Zen practice is sitting still upright in the Tassar Zendo and not moving and having no problems.

[25:30]

If you've got problems, you shouldn't be here. If you're sitting upright and having no problems, you're still calling for compassion if you think that, that you're having no problems. That's really your way of saying, please help me get out of this trap. I'm thinking I've got no problems. Whatever we're doing, we're calling for compassion and also whatever we're doing is our response to the call for compassion. Zazen is compassion. Thoroughly practiced to the point of concentration and opens to wisdom. So, Bahiya got the Buddha's instruction. In the seeing, there will be just the seeing. In the complaining, there will be just the complaining. In the planning to leave Tatsahara, there will be just the planning to leave Tatsahara. In the falling apart body, there will be just the falling apart body.

[26:34]

He gave that instruction to him. Bahiya was ready to practice that. He didn't do anything to concentrate. He just let things completely be themselves, just like they were. He entered concentration. And in concentration, there's just a scene. There's not me in the scene. Or, there's just me. And there's nothing but me. There's just me. That's it. Just me being me. In Reb, there will be just Reb. That's my name. Reb is Reb is what my name means, Suzuki Rashi said. There's no Reb, there's Reb is Reb. There's seen is seen. There's falling apart is falling apart. That's Samadhi. So he gave him instructions in Samadhi. He didn't say, do this, do that. He said...

[27:35]

Just let things be what they are and let yourself be what you are. And then when you get to being that way, which in his case was very fast, then there will be no here and there and in between. Then you won't be, you won't be here and things over there. You won't be with things or in things. This is the description of samadhi. And in samadhi you realize there's no here or there or in between. You realize that you are the universe and the universe is you. And you're different from the rest of the universe. You're you. So you're you and you're the universe. You realize the self-fulfilling samadhi. Your meditation becomes... G, G, U, Zammai.

[28:38]

So, yeah. So we do practice concentration here and in the case of Bahya, the Buddha gave a very simple instruction. Bodhidharma also gave a very simple instruction. He said, he did say to his disciples, calm your mind. Pacify your mind. with no contrivance. Don't use anything. Just let it be calm. But he said this to people who already know how to be kind to themselves. So zazen is generosity, ethical discipline, patience, diligence, enthusiasm, concentration, and wisdom. It's the whole bodhisattva practices. All of them. the wholeness of all of them. And so now again we're having a hard time and our hard time is calling for compassion.

[29:46]

So I think probably everybody does want to give compassion to their own hard time and other people's hard time. And here comes Benson. Once again, over the years I've been at Zen Center, I've seen many Zen students trying to concentrate, and they go right at concentration practice, skipping over generosity, ethical discipline, patience, and diligence. So they try, and really trying to concentrate, there is some generosity, some ethical discipline, some patience. I mean, usually there is those, and some diligence. But unless you really work at those individually, you might not be doing them fully.

[30:48]

And if you don't do them fully, your attempts to be calm and undistracted and flexible and open will be hindered by your lack of doing those previous four practices. And I'm saying to you, if you do the previous four practices, then, you know, The sound of a bell can be enough of a meditation instruction. If you don't do them, it's much harder. So please consider all these practices. You are being called by me and by yourself to practice them. again, somebody hears about this kind of description of samadhi, where there's like just a scene, and that's it.

[32:05]

There's not me in the scene. When you start practicing the instruction, in the scene there will be just a scene, you may notice that there's you, and it seems like there's you trying to practice in the scene there's just a scene. That's how it starts. But eventually, In samadhi there's just the scene, there's just the herd. So somebody hears about that and they say, I never had that experience and not too many people have. That's right. It takes a lot of training to let there just be the scene in the scene. Would you like a seat? There's one right here. It's what you might call the seat of honor. I told people that you were going to have a departing monk ceremony today.

[33:13]

And that you're going to go out in the world someplace and Try to share your dharma practice with people. Yeah. And you won't necessarily be wearing a Zen badge. Well, welcome to your departing. So I hesitate myself to give people some of these detailed concentration practices because if they haven't really practiced generosity, when they hear about these concentration practices, they might try to get them.

[34:20]

And trying to get concentration is antithetical to concentration. But still, some people try to get it and they eventually succeed and they succeed when they stop trying to get it. Just like people want to be free of suffering and they succeed when they give up trying to be free of suffering. Suffering, I'm of the school, suffering is always present. If you're not a Buddha, it's always present. If you're a Buddha, it's always present. But Buddhas know it's always present and have no resistance. And really, you know it's always present too. And you don't really have any resistance. But because you don't practice not having any resistance, you think you have resistance.

[35:22]

Or we think we have resistance. Like some people are already having problems with the cold. And I mentioned to one of these people that it probably will get colder than it was a couple days ago. And that possibly by the time it does get colder, you'll be fine with it. It was 36 a couple days ago, right? Somebody said, it'll probably get down to 26. Maybe not. global warming's on our side. But it might get down to 26 or 25. However, it probably will be in December, but maybe not. And by then, most of us will start relaxing with this painful experience of cold.

[36:27]

It's possible. Kind of like Okay, in the cold or just the cold. We might get there. Or not. Well, that's kind of like the news from Tosahara. Yeah, and that's instruction and concentration. which is instruction and concentration is instruction or encouragement to practice welcoming everything, being careful and tender with everything, being present and patient. Patient means you're in the present with it, the tiny present. You're not thinking about how long it's been painful or how long it might be painful.

[37:34]

You're just... looking at the pain right now that's patience just this right now patient pain and then diligence both enthusiasm to do those practices and also I wanted to mention that even if you don't enter samadhi even if you're not yet in there's just this herd period, even if you're not in the samadhi yet. If you practice generosity, ethics, and patience, great benefit will already start coming prior to entering samadhi and prior to opening the world. After you enter samadhi, other benefits will come, but it's

[38:34]

even before you're concentrating, even while you're still kind of dualistic about generosity, like I'm practicing generosity, I'm being careful, I'm being tender, I'm being patient, or I'm not being tender and I'm sorry, even while you're dualistic about these practices, which you won't be in samadhi, it's still really beneficial right now. Plus, it sets the stage for samadhi and wisdom. So even before you learn how to do these practices, it's good to try them. Of course, the way to really do them is not be with them. But when you first start, you're with them. But it's still beneficial. And Nesbha Flores. So I just had this thought that what I've been saying is kind of easy to understand.

[39:42]

Or maybe it's not. But what I'm on the verge of saying is not easy to understand. So maybe I'll stop for a while before I get into stuff that's hard to understand. Anything you want to say? Any questions you have before we perhaps lead into something difficult? I have a question that's difficult for me. In the playa, I've forgotten that there's the final, in the cognize, there's only the cognize? Yeah. I don't know how to work with that. Well, you know, in a way, it's kind of misleading to the cognize because in the scene, there is a of visual cognition. In the herd, there's auditory cognition. In the touched, or the kinesthetic, there's kinesthetic cognition.

[40:47]

So there's cognition before. I think what they mean is, in the realm of mental objects, like I'm falling apart, I gotta get out of here, I'm afraid, I hate, I love, this is good, this is bad. In those realms too, That would mean in the fear, there's just a fear. In the discouragement, there's just a discouragement. So you can be discouraged, and if you're in the flow of the practice, you're practicing generosity, which is very joyful, and so on. You're practicing being tender and careful with things. And then, that doesn't mean that discouragement will come, It could be discouragement coming from inside, but also people can come to you from outside and say, you know, you're a really discouraging person.

[41:48]

You make my life miserable. Somebody might say that to you. Even though you're a really nice practitioner of generosity. But if you're the flow, you just welcome the discouragement. Oh, discouragement. Amazing. I did sort of think that maybe if I was really generous, the discouragement would never come again. But here it is. It's coming from that person over there who really is unjustified in sin. And then be tender with it, and so on. And then you'll be able to finally let the discouragement just be the discouragement. You'll be able to allow it to be itself completely, and you'll just not. then the discouragement is just a discouragement. There's no you there with it. And then there's no here or there in between. So the discouragement's there, but there's no suffering.

[42:50]

You're free of suffering. And bahya succeeded right away. That in practice. He actually was maybe... I don't know if he was discouraged when it came all that way. You see, the Buddha said, this isn't a good time. I don't... I don't know if he was discouraged. But he probably felt a little frustrated. But he handled it very well. He said, but sir, and so on. He didn't get all huffy-puffy and run away. He just said, let's please, let's do it. He could welcome the Buddha saying, it's not a good time. And the Buddha could welcome him by saying, it's not a good time. Or the Buddha welcomes him, and from that welcoming, he says, well, a good time. Now, he receives that, and welcomes that, and has his comment.

[43:53]

And they go like that. And they wake up together. Anything else? Yes? When you think you're practicing generosity, and you realize that you're not really doing that, especially when you're doing it yourself. Yeah, so... you heard the precept of generosity it was given to you you aspired to it those are the two parts first two parts of ethics hear the precept of generosity aspire to practice it and then sometimes you notice you don't so then you confess and repent then go back and receive it again aspire to it again try again if you again you don't do it confess and repent And in this way, you will come to the place where you receive the precept, you aspire to practice it, and you practice it. You'll become consistent in the precepts. And then when you become consistent in them, you gradually become what we call Buddha.

[44:55]

But even though you become a Buddha because you've become consistent in your practice, suffering is still present all the time. Still with you. Now you have a Buddha way to be with it. Through training in this process of receiving the precepts of the Bodhisattva practices, aspiring to them, failing, confessing and repenting. Receiving, aspiring, failing, confessing and repenting. Receiving, aspiring, succeeding. Yay! And I like it. It's good to succeed. And that's like, I'm going to try it again. So you go back and aspire again. So you do start succeeding, but even though you succeed, it still takes a long time to never get distracted. So you have quite a few moments of confessing, I got distracted.

[46:00]

I'm sorry. And now I want to try again. Okay. Yes? After the Buddha gives Vahya those instructions, Vahya goes away, and then he's killed, and the Buddha tells people to cremate him, and so they do, and then they come back to the Buddha and say, cremated him, and what should they do? And I believe he said, erect a monument or something like that, but he says, Vahya never bothered me again, essentially. about Dharma. He never bothered me with Dharma questions or something. So, what did, how do you read that? Bother? Well, yeah, like, you know, I told him what to do, he went away, he did it, and he didn't bother me again, essentially, is kind of what he said. So, therefore, he should have a special stupor or something.

[47:05]

I think that's puzzling. If you that he usually bothered. Well, it sounds like the Buddha was happy that he was able to say something once and not have the student come back and over and over again with little niggly questions. You know, I can see that. That... If a student comes with little niggly questions, the Buddha totally welcomes them. But when the student has transcended all their niggly questions and is now only asking magnificent questions for the welfare of all beings, no more niggly questions, then the Buddha might be happy for that person. But if niggly questions come, the Buddha welcomes them.

[48:05]

But also the Buddha might be helpful. I'd be happy that Bahia has no niggly problems anymore. Bahia has no problems anymore. Bahia is wise. He can handle anything, including death. Don't worry about him. Matter of fact, since he's so good at handling anything, we're going to make a memorial to him. And memorial is for Bahia, the fastest learner of all. So I could turn it that way. I'm so happy Bahia doesn't I haven't any problems anymore. Don't need my help. I can move on to the next people who do need my help. And when they don't need my help anymore, I'll be happy for that. It may be sad too, because I'd like to help them, and now they're gone. Where's all my emails? retarded students. They all became really adept and now I don't have any more emptiness in their own room.

[49:19]

Anything is possible with these Buddhas. So, is that enough for today? Yes? Yes. There's somebody talking about where it switches to subject and object. No wonder having saturation. Yeah. Since it completely opens. There's... There's just... There's just... There's... There's just... [...] There In Samadhi, the structure of subject-object is still present. It's just that the subject and object are not separated. They're independent, which they always were.

[50:22]

And that's the last part of that comment. The last part was there's still some sort of location of this experience with Even though there's a sense of not separation, there's a general sense of it. It's a central place that's kind of happening. I mean, it's blurry. It's not happening over there. Did you say blurry? It's not really blurry. Blurry meaning like the division is blurry. The division is clearly not there. It's not blurry. It's not there. The understanding is... that there's no division, that there's just that or just this. One side is illuminated, the other is dark, but it's clear. Or there can be blurriness, but the blurriness then would be an object. And in the blurriness there would just be blurriness.

[51:27]

But the structure of the mind, which is one, the mind is one thing, it has this subject-optic structure, which usually in consciousness appears deceptive. So in samadhi, get over that deception, we're not fooled by it anymore. But the structure's still there, so we don't tamper with the usual structure in mind. We just work with it in such a way that it doesn't cause any of the stress we want. It doesn't create this meaning me not with things. Let the left come. Are there states in line at which that appears to disappear? The subject-type aspect of it, even though it's always there to appear to disappear? Yeah, I say in line, in states like, those could be called states of, those could be called states of Sometimes they call it Plank consciousness or unconsciousness.

[52:33]

It could be a cognition, but one is not there. Most of our cognitive activity as human beings is unconscious. In other words, it's a cognitive process where there's image associations and image causation. And all kinds of things are going on cognitively, which make possible, for example, to speak English. And I can consciously observe it, but I can't consciously speak English. I can't consciously do the stuff with my lips and tongue. Children try to learn, and they do learn, but when they actually can speak, it's orchestrated by the body and the unconscious. So most of our cognitive activity is unconscious cognitive activity. So that can be going on. and doing a lot of necessary stuff for life with no consciousness, with no sense of I'm here or I'm not here. So this instruction is for consciousness and consciousness can be trained into accepting samadhi.

[53:46]

So one of the ways we're conscious is one of our minds is consciousness one of our minds is unconscious cognitive process But the other mind we have is wisdom, which understands the relationship between all these factors. Yes, and yes, and yes, and yes. Is that fact you speak is selfless? Say again. Selfless? Can all that speak selfless? Healthiness? You call it selfless? I would say maybe not because maybe you could say selfless in the sense that but not selfless in the sense of no self because if the self is eliminated there's just a self.

[54:49]

So in samadhi there can be a self. Matter of fact one of the one of the one of the translations of this self-receiving and employing samadhi is the samadhi of the self. That's one of the ways some people translate it. Which I'll go into later. And the samadhi of the self is selfless. But it's not that there's no self. It's that when you understand what the self is, you see the self is not the self. But not the self is not, there is no self. It's just that the self is really not the self, and not the self is really self. Understanding that is understanding selflessness. And in this samadhi, we understand, we realize selflessness, but not by there not being a self. Because again, you say, in a scene, there's just a scene, and there's not me in addition to it.

[55:51]

Also, there could be, in me, there's just me, and there's no world in addition to me that's also selfless so I'm selfless and the color is selfless but the color doesn't live without me and I don't live without the color so that's selfless but not that there's no self it's just that the self isn't illuminated separately from the object okay just wondering what uh Yeah, it's... This part, yeah, this is part difficult and more difficult is this part. I think it's, yeah, maybe next time. I can introduce you if you want to, but maybe I'd like to handle the questions that are coming up.

[56:54]

I think Philip, so I see G. Kiddell and Catherine and Brett. Is the inquiring impulse the same as the self? Not quite, because... Because a cry for help is not the same as a self which might be in the neighborhood. So if somebody says help, that help isn't exactly the same as the person who's saying. So the self lives in consciousness. And in consciousness there could be a call for anything.

[57:58]

inquiring call so the call lives in this consciousness where the self is but the self is not the same as the call so like if the call stops and a different call comes there might still be the same self there and it might seem like the same self so the inquiring response is like help oh look at me those calls they aren't like the same every moment. We're always making different calls. But the sense of self is like what's the same self in all these different moments where I have all these different inquiries. So the inquiries aren't exactly the same as the self, but they arise from the consciousness where the self is living. So the inquiry is not necessarily narrative. Right, right. Oh! It's not necessarily narrative. It's a very short narrative.

[58:59]

Oh! Help is a little bit more of a narrative. No! Yes! These are calls for compassion. And they can arise. They arise from our body and our mind. They appear as an object in consciousness. And the self's there. The self says... The self's there. If there's not a self in a mind, I don't call it consciousness. So our unconscious cognitive processes, there's no self living there. The self doesn't say these cognitive processes are mind. There's no self regulating body temperature and metabolism and hormone levels. Those are cognitively orchestrated with the body. The conscious mind doesn't have to know about it. We hear about it then, you know, on TV or something.

[60:03]

Okay. Maybe Catherine and Lauren, Catherine and Greg and Lauren, Laura, I mean. Yeah, I wanted to thank you for a question about selflessness and the same discussion. And I was wondering if you felt that casting off body and mind is helpful. If selflessness or selfless, not selflessness, but selfless, is not quite what you wanted to describe, is casting off the body and mind helpful? Or how would you respond to that as an alerting phrase? I would say that usually I would use that term for when it's appropriate. So, for example, if somebody's calling and I'm not listening to it, then I don't have dropping off body and mind.

[61:06]

Dropping off body and mind, I would say, lives in fully listening to the cries of the world. So it isn't what's called spiritual bypass or spacing out. It's like I got a body and a mind. My body and mind are hearing the call. I let that call completely just be that call. In order to do that, I welcome it, I'm careful with it and so on. And in the fullness of the listening, I have Avalokiteshvara's ears. With those ears and those eyes, body and mind drop off And after they drop off, the next cry comes, and again there's listening. So there's listening before body and mind drops off, you could say. And maybe during body and mind dropping off, there might not be any listening because there might not be any sounds.

[62:10]

I don't know. But afterwards, there's more stable listening afterwards. So we gradually intensify our listening, and our listening becomes really full, body and mind drop off, and then after that, from dropped off body and mind, you can listen better. Yes? In Zen and Chan and Sian, there are like Tian Tu, there are many, many forms of concentration exercises, not so many in Soto, and I was wondering if you... if there is a benefit to concentration exercises and your opinion on that in general. Well, what comes to mind is almost everything that's beneficial is a dangerous temptation before you're grounded in compassion.

[63:13]

So if you hear about that, and we see that in the history of Western transmission of Zen, People hear about various techniques, they try to do them, and most of those people who try to do them, a lot of those people give up because they fail at all these. They try them, they do them, and it doesn't work. Because they don't grow up in an environment where they are grounded in generosity, ethics, patience, and diligence. So they start getting greedy about these concentration practices. and then they just get all frustrated and unless they get referred back to the grounding practices they just keep getting frustrated because they're just trying to get concentration for themselves. This concentration sounds really good and these practices sound really interesting and they get all excited and so then they get kind of trouble coming down. But if you are listening to the cries of the world

[64:18]

and you get really open to that, you start to calm down. If you're feeling distracted and you're listening to your distraction and welcome your distraction, you calm down. Without reducing the distraction, you calm down by welcoming and accepting the distraction, you become calmer. So that if you're agitated and you're not accepting your agitation, trying to get rid of it. I hate agitation. I'm going to do meditation. It's going to be harder to do. Not impossible, because you might start practicing generosity while you're reading these instructions. Somebody might come over and pat you on the back and say, relax while you're reading. You start to be more generous as you're reading and stop trying to get anything from your reading. So then it works. So I think Soto is... Well, particularly Suzuki Roshi's tradition, he's very cautious about this gaining mind, right?

[65:23]

Because I don't know if that's the way he was in Japan, but I don't think he had so many students in Japan, but in America, he started teaching, I think, and then he said, ho-ho. And these Americans hear about Zen, and this gaining mind comes up really strong. They think, oh, Zens are really cool. In Japan, maybe they say, no, it's okay. You know, so what? But that's good because they're not so greedy about Zen. But also they're not practicing. So the Americans are very good that they want to practice it. Yeah, yeah, practice Zen, but don't try to get anything. Don't try to get anything from life. Don't try to get anything. Don't try to get anything. So we've got to emphasize that before we give anything. And then when you're not trying to get anything, I have some meditation instructions for you. Or here, study this. big book on meditation techniques that the Chinese wrote that the Tibetans wrote but that's maybe you feel more comfortable when you feel the person's not trying to give anything they're trying to give not get so then they can do these practices and maybe safely so I think it's Laura and then Tim and maybe a whole bunch of people over there that I didn't see and Sam

[66:44]

I must have made a gesture. I don't have a question. Okay, okay. It's just a gesture. Thank you. Tim? So, you spoke of receiving the precept of generosity. Which is similar to the precept of don't steal. Inspiring for it and failing or succeeding. Yeah. Isn't there a danger that Yes? Whatever. You can say, I succeeded, but I actually failed. There is a danger if I aspire to be generous and you ask me for a gift and I give it that I might think I succeeded. There's a danger of that. But there's also the... There's also the joy of giving and feeling, yeah, that was nice.

[67:49]

I didn't resist him. I actually gave him what he asked for, and that was totally fine with me. So I might not say succeed, but I might have succeeded, and I might feel really good about that. But there's still danger in there. Again, somebody told me a story. We have many stories about, like this, people being nice to somebody, And then wonderful things happening like Asanga, the great bodhisattva who founded the Yogacara school, he felt that the world needed more love. So he tried to have a relationship with the great bodhisattva of love, Maitreya, which means love, right? So he was meditating for nine years to try to invoked the presence of this great bodhisattva of love, and the bodhisattvas didn't show up. So basically to make a 12-year story, did I say 9? 12.

[68:51]

After 12 years of sincere invocation of Maitreya, he gave up, and then he was walking along and he ran into a dog who was really in bad shape. I think with all kinds of swords with maggots in it, And he didn't know that the maggots were actually cleaning the wound. He was a great boy who saw that, but didn't know much about medicine. So he wanted to clean the wound of the maggots, but he didn't want to hurt the maggots. So he licked the maggots off the wound. And then, as he was licking the maggots off the wound, the dog started to change. turned into this great Bodhisattva, Maitreya. And Asanga said, why didn't you come sooner? I was there the whole time and she weren't kind enough.

[69:53]

And so then Maitreya gave him all those great teachings. And then somebody else told me a story about somebody else who was nice to a sick dog. And then as a result of being nice to the sick dog, I guess the sick dog sort of turned into Indra. Indra said, good job. You're so compassionate. I'll grant any wish. And he said, I don't want anything for this. I didn't do this to get a gift from a divine being. I said, no, please. And they went back and forth. And the guy said, fine. Okay, okay. The gift can be, my wish would be, that everybody I meet face to face, it's a blessing, but neither one of us know it. So, if you practice generosity successfully, it's a blessing, but you don't necessarily know it. And you don't even know that you're happy, but you are. Then that's not so dangerous. And Sam.

[71:04]

for concentration I do see and not to be comical inside the Zeno I'll see like eggs mantra or frittata that's a moment where I would like generosity Do you want to pressure generosity towards the frittata? Towards my degree Do you have a small gata for that type of moment? I knew I was more of this call. Welcome. Welcome to me. [...] Welcome. And if I say that, I might not mean it. But if I keep saying it, my experience is I will start meaning it. And then there will still be greed there, but...

[72:05]

and all this joy of welcoming. So the joy of welcoming can grow right next to the green by the practice of it. When he first said it, I thought he was saying, You know, he said, I don't have a strong desire for concentration, but sometimes in the Zendo, an image of a frittata appears. And now I'm totally concentrated. Just spontaneously, I totally understand. Wow, I'm completely present, and there's no here or there or in between. But if there is a here and a frittata over there... Then I got problems.

[73:06]

So, since I have problems, then I welcome the problem, and eventually there's just a frittata. And that's the end of suffering. Right? I think you understand now. And we'll talk about this hard part next time. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit SSCC.org and click giving.

[73:54]

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