This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Continuing with the history of Zazen. Continuing with stories of Zazen. I heard beautiful stories. I heard stories about beautiful human behavior. And then I heard a further story that these people in the stories were matured through a process of training

[01:22]

which was called Zazen. And then I heard stories about how to practice Zazen, and I tried to practice Zazen. But after some time, I was given the idea that it might be good to do this practice on a regular basis, and maybe that a community, a sangha, would... promote that and then yeah so this this community is part of taking care of Zazen this community is a part of taking care of Buddha Zazen Buddha has Sangha I don't know if all sanghas have Buddha, but Buddha needs sangha to promote Buddha.

[02:25]

Zazen needs sangha. And people in the community have various intentions in their consciousness, highly varied, And so it's possible that the people community can go off in many different directions because they have different intentions. And so one of the things that might hold together people who have different intentions is some similar intentions. For example, the intention to remember family stories, the interest in remembering family stories and telling family stories, to people who are interested and maybe even become committed to taking care of family stories and transmitting them to the next generation as a way to hold this community, this sangha together for the sake of taking care of the family business which

[03:48]

probably cannot be cared for without the community. So we tell stories like that to encourage the sangha to stay together and take care of the practice. Last weekend, I went up to... the Bay Area and did a one-day sitting at a temple called No Abode, named after section 10c of the Diamond Sutra. A bodhisattva should give life to a mind which has no abode, which doesn't abide in anything. And I mentioned this thing about stories as good stories as a way to keep the community alive I think I might have said to hold the community together to hold the family together but it's also to regroup it because it keeps falling apart people die people go away and people come back so it's

[05:16]

It's to keep it alive. And then afterwards, somebody energetically responded by saying he would be willing to collect stories of the people in that sangha and put it together in a book. And I said to him that I appreciate his generous offer. But I wanted to talk to him in person. And when I talked to him in person, I would say to him, what I recommend at this point is that rather than collecting the stories and making them into a book, we start telling stories. Because the books of Zen stories were put together long after the stories that are in the books had been circulating among the community. These stories are, I think, I still would suggest that the stories that hold the family together are face-to-face stories, oral stories, stories we tell, not just stories we read in books.

[06:28]

Although they're okay, if we don't tell them and converse about them, I don't think they... Yeah, I don't think that's... I think we're missing the main point. The main point is to tell each other the stories. So I will talk to him and say this to him to see are there some stories in the community not just that somebody thinks are good and will write down in a book but stories that we tell each other over and over that we think are that interesting that we keep telling and that even young people think are interesting and young people tell. So in China, apparently, and Japan too, that was going on, that people were talking in monasteries about what happens in the monastery, what happened yesterday. And then they would travel and they would tell people in other monasteries what happened at their monastery.

[07:36]

And, of course, there's quite a few stories of those types of interactions, but some were so interesting that they were told over and over and over. And we have the story, and then we have next generation of teachers talking about the story, and the next generation of teachers talking about the story. And that's what I would recommend to this person in this community is, are there any stories that you actually would, rather than just write down, that you actually would like to tell somebody about? And certainly in the short term, there's a lot of storytelling going on at Zen Center. People are actually, yeah, they're saying, did you hear what happened at Tel Zahara? Did you hear what happened at Green Gulch? Babadar came to Green Gulch and did a fall practice period a while ago. And while she was there,

[08:40]

She heard that one of our members of our community had been hit by a minivan. His name is Justin Beebe. She didn't know Justin, but she heard about it. Everybody at Gringolch was talking about Justin being hit by the van. And then people were talking about how he was recovering, how he was in a coma, for example, how he was out of the coma. People do talk about stories here. And we hear about them. Even for people we don't know, we hear about these stories. It's normal. Which stories are so interesting that they'll be told generation after generation? So let's just start telling stories, I'll say to this person, and we'll see which ones are alive enough. And then a hundred, two hundred years from now, we'll see if somebody feels like, let's make a book out of these. We'll see.

[09:44]

But in the meantime, let's tell stories about Zazen. Here's a couple. I mean, here's 50. So we just recited the Ehe Koso Hotsugamon and one history about that about our chanting of it at Zen Center, is that after I became abbot, Suzuki Roshi's son, Hoitsu Roshi, my elder, four years older than me, he suggested that before the abbot gives Dharma talks, that they could do something besides an unsurpassed, penetrating, and perfect is rarely met with, even in a hundred thousand million kalpas.

[10:49]

Instead of that one, do something else. Like, for example, he said, So I found the text, and then I worked with a translator. I think I worked with Kaz Tanahashi, I don't remember for sure, and we translated it. And in the original, Doug is original it says I vow from this life on throughout countless lives and so but I thought that might be better to say we vow so we so we do say we vow but at the original says I vow and this morning When we were chanting, we vow from this life on throughout countless lives. I heard that throughout countless lives in a different way this morning.

[11:53]

I heard it more like, you might say, more horizontally. I vow throughout countless lives. In other words, I vow... throughout all your lives. I vow through all your lives. I vow through the lives of all beings in the universe. That's the way I vow. I make this vow to hear the true Dharma through your life and your life and your life and your life. May I? May I use your life to vow? And now, while I'm at it, countless lives right today, can I also vow through your past lives, through your childhood and so on? Can I vow into your future lives and my future lives?

[12:57]

May I? I mean, I know I can't. May I? So anyway, that's a piece of history, of Zen Center history that... He always recommended that to me. I translated it with somebody who knows Japanese well, and we started chanting it, and now it's part of our practice. That's the story of our family history. And I'd like to say again that our unconscious cognitive process, in the face of an inconceivably complex life, which is not coherent, on an ongoing basis,

[14:24]

conjuring up coherent versions of life. Stories. And, yeah, that are much more coherent, much clearer, and, you know, narrowed down versions of life, which are lovely. which it finds lovely. It loves stories, and then it gives stories to our consciousness. It doesn't give us all the stories. It gives us one moment, generally. And there's probably some competition being held about which one gets to come into consciousness now. Like this one just came in just now. I didn't consciously make up this story. And there's another story which is that simultaneously with this story is this vast life surrounding the story which is not a story.

[15:42]

The unconscious cognitive process gives us another kind of a... It's not exactly a story. It's more like a... What is it called? It's a virtual reality thing that it does. When your eyes are open, it gives rise to a three-dimensional model of the universe. It just gives... putting it out there when your eyes are open. If you close your eyes, the three-dimensional model goes away. When your eyes open, our unconscious cognitive process gives our consciousness a three-dimensional version of the world. A coherent story of space that we find quite useful. And you need eye organs in certain positions in order for the nervous system and the cognitive processes to project this model of space, this three-dimensional space model.

[17:02]

It's a story. It's a story of space. There's other possible stories of space. There's one-dimensional models, like a line. It's a one-dimensional story. A plane... but there's all kinds of other possible dimensions. There's irrational numbers. There's irrational dimensions too that exist, but it's hard for us to see them. But they're surrounding us all day long. When I was in New York a couple of years ago, at the Brooklyn Zen Center, in a retreat, this kind of introductory monologue to a TV show came into my mind.

[18:07]

And it was a TV show that I watched when I was a kid in Minnesota. Do you know where Minnesota is? It's north, yeah. And I lived there for quite a few years and watched TV. And one of the shows I watched was called The Naked City. The Naked City is what the city of New York was called on that TV show. It was about New York. And they called it The Naked City. And I think at the beginning they would say, in the naked city, there are eight million stories. Tonight or now, you will hear one of them. And when I was in that retreat, it just struck me, oh, yeah, New York is actually naked.

[19:19]

New York actually doesn't have 8 million stories. It's just that in the city that's naked of stories, that's much too complex for even 8 million stories. There's 8 million stories being generated every moment in New York. But the city is actually naked. Our life is actually naked. But we don't like a really naked life. It's too much. It's too, I don't know what, it's too much or too little anyway. We don't just sit there in the nakedness of our life. We are given a story about it. So again, our life is naked of stories, really, but our life generates stories about itself. And these stories are ways to understand mind so that we can allow our mind and body to drop off which is doing all the time anyway and because it's dropping off all the time it's free of all stories but we need stories I think in order to open to this pro this inconceivable process of liberation from stories

[20:52]

We need stories to help our body open to body and mind dropping off. In other words, to open to zazen. The history of this practice period is I've been telling stories about ancestors transmitting face-to-face, transmitting zazen face-to-face. Starting with Shakyamuni, sitting under the Bodhi tree, seeing the morning star, and waking up to zazen, and then...

[22:00]

transmitting it, waking up face-to-face with the universe, and then saying, now I see. Now I see Zazen. Now I see that I, together with all beings, realize Buddha's way. Together. Now. In other words, now I see zazen. Then Shakimani Buddha meets Mahakashapa. And he raises a flower. And Mahakashapa cracks up. And the Buddha says, I have zazen. I now transmit zazen to Makashapa.

[23:05]

And then Mahagasyapa becomes Ananda's teacher and Ananda says to Mahagasyapa, when the Buddha transmitted Zazen to you, was there anything else besides Zazen that he gave you? And this question... When your teacher transmitted zazen to you, did they transmit anything else besides zazen? That question transmits zazen. That calling out and being heard, that question and answer. When the Buddha gave you zazen, was there anything else he gave you? And Mahakashipa listening, that face-to-face meeting, that question about zazen, transmits Zazen.

[24:31]

And then, the next movement, Mahakashapa calls out to Ananda. Ananda, calling out to Ananda, transmits Zazen. Ananda says, yes sir. That response transmits Zazen, encourages Zazen. And then Mahakashapa says, now that Now that Zazen has been transmitted, go take the flagpole down. And again, Zazen was transmitted. And then Ananda meets Shanavasana. And Shanavasana says... What's the... fundamental unborn nature of all things.

[25:40]

What's the fundamental unborn nature of zazen? And in order to continue the transmission of zazen, Ananda points to Shanavasana's the corner of his kishaya. And then again, it goes on. The zazen transmission goes on. What is the original nature of Buddha's awakening? What's the original nature of zazen? Ananda takes a hold of the corner of his kishaya and pulls it sharply. And zazen is transmitted. Then Upagupta comes to practice with Sānavasana.

[27:02]

and becomes a monk. And afterwards, Shana Vasan says to Upagupta, when you became a monk, when you left home, did you leave home with the body or did you leave home with the mind? And Shana Vasan says, I left home, honestly, I left home Truly I left home with the body. Again, part of telling the stories is to tell the stories and also to change the stories. Shana Vasus says to Upagupta, when you left home...

[28:06]

was it this way or was it that way? And Upagupta says, it was this way. And then Shana Vasan says, how could the marvelous, wondrous Buddha Dharma be contingent on this way or that way? And Upagupta listened to that question and looked at that question and And he didn't give a this way or that way answer. He just practiced his Azen. It had been transmitted. He just entered with his teacher into body and mind dropped off. Body and mind, again, are into making stories of this way and that way. We went this way today and... we're thinking of going that way. When you go forth into Zazen, when you leave home and enter Zazen, do you do it by the story?

[29:22]

Or do you do it... How do you do it? I do it by saying thank you, teacher. The story has dropped away. The alternatives... have dropped away. And now I will continue to transmit zazen, which is not contingent on this way or that way. It's contingent, it is, not contingent, it is, this way and that way dropping off. And we drop, and it's this way and that way drops off in the sangha. where we meet face to face with Buddha so that's today's story or that's today's stories about good old Zazen which is not one of these things it's the original unborn nature of things

[30:34]

And you know what the original unborn nature of things is, right? And the thought, again, a short story just came to my mind of someone imagining, now is this guy going to... That reminds me of another story. So after the one day sitting up in the city, I went to my granddaughter's birthday party. She's six. Last Monday. And there was a little boy at the party who was two. And he says, what's your name? And I said, Upagupta. And he said, what?

[31:45]

And I said, or something like that. So he turns to my wife and he said, what's this guy's name? Which for a two-year-old is pretty cute. In this next story, somebody's looking at me and they think, now is this guy going to go through like 91 generations and suggest to us how in each generation there's a story of transmitting zazen? Is he going to do that? Wouldn't that be like boring? Or wouldn't it be amazingly boring? Wouldn't it be astoundingly boring? This is super boring.

[32:46]

And that story would get out. Before the town trip gets to Salinas. The astoundingly boring stories. The same thing over and over. Every story, zazen. Every story, body and mind dropping off. It's always like this point. It's this place. They're always talking about this place. What's the place? No abode. body and mind dropping off. They're always talking about body and mind dropping off.

[33:48]

And so, of course, when body and mind drops off, self and other drops off with it. So it's self, body and mind and other body and mind dropping off together. So maybe that's enough stories today. That was quite a few, wasn't it? I have some more, but I think that's enough for today. Coming from me, even now that I think it's enough, there probably some more will come.

[34:54]

But anyway, I'm kind of willing to stop telling stories today if that's okay with you. And if you want to tell any stories, we have a few more minutes and you can come and tell stories or whatever. Good morning.

[35:55]

I'd like to hear a story. I'd like to tell a story. Okay. I'd like to hear a story about my story, please. Here's my story. The world is on fire. The ice caps are melting. The oceans are dying. You see, the rate of species extinction is accelerating. The rate of suicides by teenagers and children is accelerating. What does girl zazen have to do with this? Girl zazen is the place from which an appropriate response to these flames that you're telling us about. It's the place that the appropriate response is coming up. For example, if we don't come, if our response to the situation of teenage suicides doesn't come from this dropped off body and mind, it, for all I know, might increase the rate of teen suicides.

[37:20]

don't know how that works but i believe that if i'm coming from dropped out body and mind and i relate to teenagers i promote the practice by which they will be able to stand the flames that they're trying to run away from so these catastrophes are coming from people not being sitting in the love seat of dropped-off body and mind. If we sit there, we will respond to these fierce flames in a way that will contribute to peace with them, which will... That's enough, maybe. That's my faith, is to sit in the place from which the... wise and compassionate response to catastrophes will arise.

[38:25]

Also, wise and compassionate responses to fear of catastrophes. So not only is there responding appropriately to the catastrophe, but also to the fear of them, which promotes more catastrophes, if it's not cared for properly. So that's my faith. Buddhists sit in the middle of these flames and they're calm and they respond. They respond. And they're just going to continue responding from this place. Thank you for your story. Thank you for your story and articulating that so well. Excuse me, but I thought I heard you say the love seat dropped off by my... So there's room for two? Only a Buddha and a Buddha?

[39:28]

Yes, sir. Good morning. I don't know if I'm quite young enough to speak for the young people. You love stories. Yeah. You're pretty young. And one of the great things about young people is they have these, like, Velcro brains.

[40:33]

So when they hear the stories, they remember them forever. So I think you still have some Velcro in your brain. some wonderful stories of realization of great awakening. Ancestors we chant every morning, people like Bahia, these are stories of great awakening, but they seem so distant, so far away in the past. Don't they, though? We even have ways to measure how far. Right. 2,500 years. Yeah, they seem far away, right. And so are there any stories in the past 50 years of people we might know of or think we might know of greatly dropping away body and mind and realizing this? So, on December 4th, 1971, in San Francisco, our dear teacher, in his room, and 132 of us, downstairs, sitting, just starting the first sitting,

[42:15]

of a December seshin. And he lets his body and mind let's go. And 132 people practice sazen. That's one story of great awakening, that that person's life... raps away and simultaneous with 132 people practicing zazen who don't know that he's passed away but are sitting with him they know that that's one story of in the last 50 years 46 years ago if we get closer in time I have to be careful that I'm not proclaiming certain people's great awakening.

[43:22]

But... Is there a reason you need to be careful? Huh? Is there a reason to be careful? I don't want to discourage people with any behavior that looks arrogant. Okay? So, I would say, when I say my name's Upagupta Bhupagupta, and you say... Yuki, what's this guy's name? That's the realization of Great Awakening. Can you see it? Are you ready for it? If you're not, then I would say, okay, now, let's go do this again. Now, ready? Honored follower of Zen. Long accustomed to groping for the elephant. You know the elephant, right? Great Awakening? Where is it? Like in the last few years, where is the elephant?

[44:26]

Okay. Yeah, right. So here we are, groping for the elephant. Okay, fine. Then I say, are you ready to meet the true dragon? Are you ready to meet body and mind dropped off? creature will never be ready. Do you want to be ready? Do you want to allow the readiness to come and meet you? you for your story.

[45:35]

the door on the keyhole on the new vault. The door opens to new vault and this door cannot be pushed and cannot be kicked. What is the need for the door and the key? Thank you for the story. When that two-year-old said, What's this guy's name? I didn't say to my wife, is this unsurpassed complete enlightenment?

[47:22]

If I say stuff like that, people say, oh, please. But I still wonder, I wonder. I heard the story a couple of times. that Soto Zen is the school of gradual awakening. But when I hear your stories, it all sounds very sudden to me. Yeah, these are stories in a book put together by a Soto Zen ancestor about what looks to be sudden or in the moment. It's like realization in a moment. These are stories of a moment of Zazen or a moment of Great Awakening. These are like a Soto Zen ancestor's book about their koans about awakening.

[48:30]

Are there any stories about little awakening? About what? Little awakenings. Little awakenings? Yeah. There are stories about little awakenings, too. What would you like to tell him? I just told him a moment ago. What's this guy's name? He had a little awakening and he said, what's this guy's name? It was a little one for a little guy. The teaching of the Buddha is thus. The teaching of the Buddha is thus. And then the verse on that says, the unique breeze of reality. The unique breeze of reality is the teaching of Buddha is thus.

[49:38]

It's thus. That breeze, it's the one breeze. Can you see it? Are you ready to see it? Of course, the price of admission to the vision is body and mind dropped off. Are you ready to meet the true dragon? And some people honestly come in to me and say, I really appreciate your offering of the dropped off body and mind, but I must admit, I'm not... ready for it. I'm afraid of it. I'm afraid of what would happen if I let it happen. Well, yeah. We don't know what the true drag is going to do. It might lick us with a huge smelly tongue. Yes. I'm afraid of the dragon because I'm afraid it might take away all my feelings.

[50:46]

Yeah. Almost this dropping off body and mind is opening to that. And you can go on with other things that might be frightening. It's not that they're going to happen. It's just that you have to open to that. when I practice the scene is just the scene or the hurt is just the hurt it seems like everything that's happening is turning into a movie and just watching the movie and it feels uncomfortable actually not being part of the movie anymore but just watching it and not relating to it feels cold

[51:53]

It feels cold. Well, that's another movie. It's the movie about feeling cold, about watching this... About caring? Yeah, it's another movie. It's called The Not Moving Cary. A movie of not caring. But it's like you got this movie, and then you got this movie, and then this movie. They're all... The thing about this training is that you start to see that what's being... offered here is a movie, is a projection, is a simplified version of your life. You start to see that. Then, when you start to see that, then another movie comes called, which says, you know, you're becoming cold. Like, you know, I know a lot of women who really care about their mothers and they... and they tell me how much they care about their mother, and then they sometimes tell me, you know, for a long time, I cared about my mother too much.

[53:06]

In other words, I cared about my mother so much that we had a very stressful, unhappy relationship because I cared about her more than I needed to just to make sure that no one would ever say I didn't care enough about my mother. Could you follow that? That was a little... Difficult, maybe. So sometimes people care about somebody, but then they care about them more just because even though they care, someone might say, you don't care enough. So they care so much that no one ever says that. But then it's very stressful. So then they see that movie of like, and then they say, well, actually, I'll just care a lot, but not too much. And then their mother says, don't you care about me anymore? Or they feel cold, you know, because they used to care too much. So carrying the right amount now seems cold.

[54:09]

A friend of mine is an eye surgeon, and he said, if my daughter needed surgery, I would not perform the surgery because I would care too much. I need somebody who cares. the right amount I don't want somebody who cares too much like me doing the operation so of course he's not cold he's like overheating with concern for his girl but that's not that's dangerous that's harmful that overheating he should get away from the girl and let somebody who is cool come in and make the cut in the eye Just the right way. Totally the right, the appropriate action. And someone might say, that surgeon was so cold. That could be that story.

[55:11]

So anyway, movies are coming up all the time anyway. Your unconscious is putting new movies in your mind all the time. If you start becoming aware of that, You'll be less caught by them. Yeah. And then... Yeah. And then because you're less caught, another story will come which says if you're less caught, you're not human. Another story will come and say being not human is not good. Another one comes and says... Being not human is totally cool. And so on. And then you can put all that together and make a really good movie. I'd like it to be a compassion movie. Yes, but if it is a compassion movie, and you see it's a movie, you might feel cold.

[56:18]

relationship to the compassion movie and you're afraid of feeling cold but the compassion movies not the compassion movie is about accepting and being open to being afraid of not being compassionate and I I hear that you're afraid you're afraid of not being compassionate so you need to In the fear of being not compassionate, we need to train so that in the fear, there's just the fear. I mean, we need to do that if we want to follow the Buddha's instruction. So I ask, are you ready to meet the true dragon?

[57:29]

And you can say no. And I can say, well, do you want to learn to be ready for body and mind dropping off? Dogenzenji says, don't be suspicious of the true dragon. I'm not saying don't be suspicious. You're suspicious. I'm not like Dogen telling you, please don't be suspicious of the true dragon. I'm not saying that. I got Dogen to say it for me. I'm saying, are you ready? Even though you're suspicious, are you ready? To meet. Body and mind dropping off. Are you ready to meet Zazen? And you might say, no, I'm afraid to meet Zazen, I'm afraid. Even though you're afraid, even if you're afraid, are you ready to meet the true dragon, Zazen?

[58:38]

And you might say, okay, I'm afraid. Maybe just once, you said one meeting, okay. Are you ready? And again, if not, do you want to learn to be ready? And I think this conversation, is coming from the wish to learn, to be ready, to meet, is dropped off body and mind. Drop-drop body and mind is a teaching for people who are committed to the bodhisattva vow of attaining drop-drop body and mind for the welfare of all beings.

[59:42]

That's who this teaching is for. I'd like to make, but I need your help. What help do you need? Interactive. It goes like this.

[60:44]

And I listen to you. Now, together with all beings, I realize... Brother, have Narula transmitted you the rub?

[61:49]

Will he transmit you anything else? Hazago. what is the unborn nature of all things When you lift your eyebrows, that's the same as Mahakashapa lifting his eyebrows. Not the least bit different.

[62:50]

What is the nature of the great awakening of Buddha? Responding to you. Would you say that more slowly, please? Brother, when you left home, did you leave my body or mind?

[63:55]

Do not ignore this. You're welcome. I have one more question. What's next? What's after that? Anxiety. I've already got that. That's what what's next is. It's anxiety. I'm telling you what's next is. So what's now? What's now? Yes, I am I recently remembered you offering to maybe help open my heart Please

[65:57]

Please help open my heart. That's all I get? Huh? Well, first of all, let's open to that. Okay. How was that? I'm trying. That wasn't... Your dad didn't seem like a very good offering? I may have had an expectation. Yeah. So... Put your arms out again. Okay? So now, watch and see if what I'm giving you now is something that you feel is not good enough. It's less than it was the first time. Keep doing it. Keep doing it. So, I'm... I'm offering you these gifts to help your heart open, okay?

[67:04]

And some part of you is saying, is that all there is? Or, you know, can I have a little bit more? And you can ask for more. Go ahead, ask for more if you want to. More. Yeah. You can ask for more and see if you can do that without trying to get anything. Go ahead, try. May I please have... So, did you say that without trying to get more? Maybe. Yeah, try to say that again, but without trying to get more. Maybe. I'm okay with maybe. Are you okay with maybe? Maybe. Yes, yes. You are? Yeah, I am too. How does it feel... How does your heart feel when you say, yes, I'm okay with maybe? Feels good. Yeah, it's like, that's opening.

[68:06]

Okay with maybe, okay with, can I have more? So it's okay to say, can I have more, but try to do it without trying to get anything. Try again. Can I have more? Of not more? I'm not sure what I'm saying now. You know, what you can be sure of is you can kind of spot when you're trying to get something. But when you're not trying to get anything, it's kind of hard to see anything because you're not trying to get anything. You're just expressing yourself as a gift to me. That's what it's like to open your heart and say, you just give me gifts of, for example, telling me, help me. telling me I want more. But telling me I want more just to tell me, to give me a gift, not to try to get more.

[69:08]

But when you do that, that's just your expression. It's not something you can get a hold of. A naked city? It's a naked city, yeah. It's the expression from the naked city. Yeah. It's not going anyplace or coming from anyplace. You're welcome. Is that enough for today? Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma.

[70:12]

For more information, visit SSCC.org and click Giving.

[70:18]

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