This podcast is offered by San Francisco Zen Center on the web at sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening. So I was admonished on the way in by another priest to be good tonight. And another one encouraged me to have fun so that she could have fun. So I hope to be able to, let's see, allow your expectations to have their own place and ground of being, and maybe you'll hold them loosely enough to give me a little, what's the word, room to see what comes forward. So anyhow, it's wonderful to be here, and thank you very much for joining tonight. My name is David Zimmerman. And I always actually like to see who is new here for the first time to Zen Center.

[01:03]

Anyone new first time? Wow, everyone has been here before. That's amazing. That's great. Well, welcome back. The reason I like to know that is actually I'm very encouraged whenever I see new faces arrive and new people entering into practice and exploring what practice is and what Zen Center has to offer. Because I'm reminded of the time that I myself first came to Zen Center and to practice and particularly what brought me here. And I've mentioned before that... Part of my journey had to do with the time my father was dying and wanting to kind of have a closer relationship and be more grounded with him in that process. And then another question that had been with me for quite some time was the question of what do I want to be in the world? And this question has a lot to do with, for many of us, the framing of career choice and livelihood.

[02:11]

And I spent many, many years kind of entertaining that and trying to look at that from different angles and so on. And probably up through my, I would say, late 20s, that question was still very much a strong part of my life. And I had spent many years working in health care as well as educational fields because I felt those were fields that were of service. and I wanted to be of service. And yet I didn't necessarily enjoy always or have the dream job that I was doing in this particular field. And so there's some ongoing sense of dissatisfaction that I hadn't found my place yet. I found out what I was truly meant to do, my true calling. And so over time, and particularly as I came to Zen Center, started my Zen practice, That question shifted for me. And instead of focusing on what I want to be, the question became one of how do I want to be in the world?

[03:19]

And this was kind of a fruitful time in terms of practice to be able to enter more deeply into that inquiry and allow practice itself to inform me. And so after a number of years of practice, I came to understand the value of constantly keeping this question of how I wanted to be forefront in my life, regardless of what I was doing. How has become more so fundamental in my practice. How am I doing what am I doing? How am I doing what I am doing, regardless of what it is, with a mind of Buddha with an awakened mind, a mind that is free of clinging and self-delusion? Does how I'm doing whatever I'm doing serve to free me and others of suffering?

[04:24]

Now, this exploration of how I want to move the world has stayed with me for the 12 years that I have lived and practiced at Zen Center, and I'm sure will be a constant for the rest of my life and the rest of my practice engagement. And I tend to keep it always forefront in whatever I am doing. So I was invited to speak tonight by Rosalie Curtis, our head of practice, as part of a series in which senior Zen Center administrators get to share with all of you a little bit about what's called their work practice, their practice positions, their work and jobs here at Zen Center, and how we actually integrate practice with work. And so I am one of, I think I'm now number five, so many of you have already heard four in this series, and I hope that you will learn and discover something new tonight that will also enrich this very exploration that you may have for yourself.

[05:35]

So... I actually confess that I find the term work practice a bit odd. And I kind of feel sometimes that somehow we use that term, particularly at Zen Center, as a way to trying to convince ourselves or maybe justify the view that our work can be an expression of practice and can be integrated into our life here at Zen Center. I think the term work practice is strange for me because my understanding of Zen is that one's effort should always be focused on engaging from a place of practice, always attending to the business of life with an awakened mind. Therefore, what we call work is just another activity during which we make a wholehearted effort

[06:36]

to be mindful and attentive. Every activity we engage in can be a Dharma gate of awareness. So we could just as well speak of eating practice, sleeping practice, driving practice, brushing teeth practice, shit practice. Everything, everything you do is a gate of practice. Does it need to be a work practice? Can we not have that separation idea of this is work and this is not work? Is there just continuous effort, moment to moment? My understanding of Zen training is that we are cultivating the capacity to meet everyone and every situation with an open, generous heart-mind.

[07:38]

And in the same way, I try to approach my work, including my administrative roles here at Zen Center, as both practice and an expression of the Bodhisattva path. As I engage in my work activities, I rest in the intention or the vow to be of service to others and to be a beneficial support in our moment-to-moment awakening. So my vow is to meet all situations with a calm, open mind, to see things as they are, not to be hindered by my conditioned or habitual views, and to respond appropriately and without reactivity, to both people and circumstances as they arise. To that end, my intention is to align my day-to-day activities with my bodhisattva precepts.

[08:49]

Of course, I am failing to do this every moment. I am constantly making one continuous mistake after the other. And yet, And yet, this too is a place of practice. And it's very, very humbling. It's very humbling to see for myself how I fail in my effort to be attentive, present, moment to moment. And it's actually very humbling to have all of you witness me as I am continuously failing. And yet, when I am aware of those moments, when I am not meeting my intention, or my vow, that too is a moment of awakening. That too is a moment of practice. And in that place, there's a place of gratitude. Because I am grateful that I am awake enough to see what I need to do in order to once again be in alignment with my vow to be awakened for the benefit of all beings.

[10:05]

So my so-called work practice then affords me many opportunities to see the places where I am grasping, averting, holding fixed views, fear not knowing, or believe in a separate, permanent self. So whatever work I engaged in can provide me with an opportunity to become more aware where I need to be more generous, to express what is difficult to say, to be kind in the midst of irritation and fatigue, to see virtue where I am conditioned to see fault, and to return again and again to a still, quiet place so that I may meet whatever arises with composure and compassion, including my own habitual mind and behaviors.

[11:15]

Just as I see my priest training and spiritual path is one of service, so do I regard my work activity here at Zen Center as a vehicle through which to express and embody the Buddha way by contributing my labor to the Sangha, and on behalf of the liberation of all beings. So having just said a little bit about my view of how work is another expression of moment-to-moment Bodhisattva practice, I'd like now to speak a little bit about what actually is my work here at Zen Center. and tell you a little bit about how I integrate my work and practice, or how they are not separate in some way. So for those of you who may not know or are new to Zen Center, my area of responsibility is overseeing the program department at Zen Center.

[12:30]

And the program department is a relatively new department. It's been around for a little under three years. And it's new to the organizational structure. And it's probably very unique in the sense of traditional Zen temples. Most Zen temples don't have a program department, if you will. The program department came out of an initiative about, I would say, five years ago. It was 2008. to more strategically look at how we as an organization can take care of the wider Sangha and ourselves to be a benefit to as many people as possible. And the program department was conceived as a vehicle, particularly so that we can widen the expression of our mission. And Zen Center's mission, for those of you who might not know, is as follows. to make accessible and embody the wisdom and compassion of the Buddha as expressed in the Soto Zen tradition and as conveyed to us by Ehi Dogen and Suzuki Roshi.

[13:45]

So Dogen was the founder of this particular school of Zen and Suzuki Roshi was the founder of San Francisco Zen Center. So some of the programs that Zen Center provides support our mission, that support our mission take the form of more what you might call traditional practice offerings. So this is daily Zazen, one-day sittings, sashims, residential and work practice. And these traditional offerings are designed to help people experientially to discover and embody the practice and teachings of the Buddha. And these traditional offerings or programs are housed under the immediate purview of the abbots and the tantos. So they're the ones who set the schedule and determine when there's going to be a practice period, when there's going to be a one-day sitting, all those core traditional offerings they have oversight of.

[14:53]

Now, the program department supports these many traditional offerings. And yet another key function of the program department is to focus particularly on the part of our mission about making accessible the Dharma. And one of the ways that we aim to do this is by offering a variety of innovative, educational, and experiential programs that support a diverse population and support people to discover, explore, and integrate Zen practice into their lives. So there are kind of three types of programs that we might create to help this happen. And one of those is focusing on areas in people's lives where they might feel particular challenges or places of suffering. For example, work, relationships, sexuality,

[15:53]

transitions in their lives, issues of aging and death. So Zen Center puts on programs that help people to explore these particular areas in their lives. And then we also have programs to help people to integrate Zen practice into the activities of their lives, particularly activities that help them focus on their well-being. And these type of programs are programs such as yoga and Zen, and Tai Chi, and Chinese healing and cooking methodologies, gardening or psychotherapy. And then a third type of program is programs that help focus on a particular affinity. that people might have in their lives around identity and expression. And for example, we have programs that help focus on Sangha and recovery, Queer Dharma, offerings for people of color, Young Urban Zen, programs for women, families, and also those who are practicing with depression and anxiety.

[17:10]

All these programs, how we come about coming up with these, requires a certain skillful means. Because we need to be able to know where people are at in their lives, to understand the suffering and the request that's coming forward, and then shape offerings that will support people to explore and integrate practice. in various aspects of their lives. Now, of course, while it would be wonderful to offer many of our programs for absolutely free, we live in a world in which it requires to have certain financial foundations to sustain ourselves. So we do actually charge for our programs to some degree, and as a way to kind of, again, be financially responsible. to each other. I also want to say that the word programs itself for some people is a little bit, strikes the ear odd for some people.

[18:24]

And I think maybe a better term might be Dharma offerings. But when the program department was started, the feeling was that the word program itself might actually be a little bit more familiar to people. and they may have a little bit more of initial resonance with it. However, we're looking at seeing, can we actually find a different term in how we express what we do in the program departments? So if you have any suggestions, I would just definitely welcome them and hear more about how can we frame the word program in such a way that kind of really makes more sense for everyone. So, What do I do specifically as program director? My role is largely responsible for developing the oversight and operations of a majority of our programs. And this means that I get to be involved in envisioning what are we going to offer and how we are going to go about offering it.

[19:31]

And that includes the form it's going to take for the structure. Is it going to be perhaps a class? Is it going to be a one-day retreat or half-day retreat? Is it going to be a series of workshops? Is it going to be a public program that we offer at another location other than Zen Center? So these are all decisions, including cost, who's going to teach, and how often are we going to actually offer this particular program? So these are areas that I get to oversee. And there are five key areas for the program departments. And those areas are program developments. Again, the creation, the scheduling, the implementation, and the evaluation of our programs that are offered all three centers. That's City Center, Tassajara, and Green Gulch. There's also the reservations part of programming.

[20:33]

which basically is how do people sign up and register for a program, and also how do they make accommodations, how do they book a room at Tassajara or City Center or Green Gulch. There's also the marketing and communications aspect, which basically is putting the word out about what we have to offer, and that entails both in kind of print media as well as email communications. And then there is the whole web services area, which entails kind of developing our website, deciding what's going to be on the web, and how we're going to use our web services, and also the Internet in general. And then finally, there is the outreach and volunteer parts of the program department. Now, in terms of outreach, we do offer a number of programs, such as food distribution and...

[21:35]

recovery programs. There's a prison correspondence, a jail meditation offering. So that's housed under the program department. And then there's the volunteer area in which many people come and participate and volunteer to support many different areas of Zen Center, such as working in the kitchen or working in the garden or actually being part of the outreach activities. So my department is this huge... mass of different activities that I just described. And there are basically 13 people in this department who have day-to-day responsibilities for all these areas. And I oversee, supervise this group of people, and I then report to the Zen Center president. So that's kind of an overview of the program department. what I am supposed to be doing, even though a lot of the times I'm not even sure what is happening and how I'm doing it and how it's all manifesting.

[22:38]

It's actually quite a miracle, and it's quite a journey. So I have to say my day-to-day activities are what you would probably think a typical administrator would do. I'm in lots of meetings, constantly talking to people about strategy, about decisions we're going to make around program offerings, how we're going to make something happen, who's going to do it, what resources are we going to allocate. I'm talking with coworkers. I'm talking to the wider Sangha. I'm talking to retreat leaders, participants, many different people just to figure out how can we do what we want to offer as best as we can. I spend a lot of time in meetings and so much time that I actually feel that I don't have enough time to actually do the day-to-day tasks that I need to help move things forward. And I also spend a lot of time on email, which is, I've got to say, after spending eight years in a monastery where there was no email,

[23:47]

is a bit of a mind-numbing experience. That was probably the hardest thing for me when I came back from Tassajara, was adjusting to having to interface with what feels like I'm constantly in my mind, having communications appear rather than face-to-face. And it takes, for me, a lot of time, excuse me, to be really skillful. and conscientious about what I want to say through email. Am I being clear? What more do I need to say? And it's, I don't know, it's kind of draining at times. And I would much prefer face-to-face engagements. But in our kind of modern society, this is the tools that we have. And so I try to do my best with it. And if you're still waiting for an email from me, I'm sorry. I will get back to you, hopefully, by the end of the week. Thank you. Okay, so I've kind of told you a little bit about what I do, what the program department is, and what I do in the program department.

[24:51]

And now I want to get maybe to what is a little bit more interesting is, what is the practice of being the program director at Zen Center? But before I go into that, I want to tell a little bit story about my time when I was the head of bag lunch at Tassajara about... Oh gosh, was it really nine years ago? Wow, that long? Anyhow, many years ago, my second summer at Tassajara, I was asked to be the head of bag lunch. And the bag lunch is this kind of auxiliary lunch that's offered to the guests and students who don't want to have lunch in the dining room. So they can go off and take a picnic lunch and enjoy their meal as they're going hiking or next to the pool or elsewhere. Well, this was for me... an ideal job, because I got to channel my inner Martha Stewart. And for many of you who knew me at that time, I relished the job and the responsibilities, in part because for me it was a very creative position.

[25:58]

I loved and really enjoyed thinking about what kind of spreads and fixings I could create to offer for everyone so they would be nourished and happy and enjoy themselves. How beautiful of a bagged lunch could I actually offer? And I would think about what kind of decorations could I put on the table? And I would have... rocks. I would put rocks, you know, there'd be red linen on the tables and then I would find these perfect rocks and I'd put them on top and put the bowls on top of the rocks so they were all elevated and I would find beautiful pieces of wood that I would lay down in the center and then wonderful flower arrangements and I would garnish all the little spreads and everything else just perfect. Little paprika here, little, you know, parsley there. I just had so much fun doing it and I would spend a lot of extra time working actually. I'd work over time because I got so much energy and delight from doing this. Now, I had a partner in Bag Lunch who had a different orientation.

[27:01]

She would be what we might say a zen minimalist. And so we had a little bit of conflict going on. Her idea was Bag Lunch only needs to be the basics. I think three spreads is enough. Egg salad, hummus, And maybe peanut butter. That's it. You don't need anything else. And maybe one single flower. And she also had a tendency to move a little bit slower than I did, you know, mindfully, attentively. And I'd be running circles around here, just kind of like doing things and putting things in the oven and just, you know, fixing all these spreads. And sometimes I would get, to be honest, a little irritated because I was thinking she was moving too slowly. You know, I was like, why can't you do more? You know, this is so wonderful. Aren't you having fun? Come on. Come on. Don't you want to create a wonderful bounty? You don't care about bad lunch. Anyhow, it got to the point where we had to have a mediated conversation.

[28:04]

She was not happy with how I was doing my work practice, and I was having some struggles with how she was doing her work practice. So we went to the tanto and went into the room together, And we both shared our complaints about each other's work practice and the point of views about how the other wasn't doing enough or wasn't working in the way that we thought was right. And finally we stopped and the tanto paused for a moment and she simply encouraged us to consider the question, what is the practice of bag lunch? Now that struck me as a unique question. Because up until that point, I hadn't considered that there was a particular practice for being in bag lunch. You know, I thought I was just doing my job and trying to apply my practice as if my practice was something on top of or in addition to my job.

[29:10]

But the question framed my work activity in such a way that I understood that the responsibilities themselves of bagged lunch could be taken up as a practice, regardless of the role or the position actually that I had. Indeed, it became more apparent to me that every activity I engaged in, no matter how seemingly mundane or important, is its own Dharma gate. with its own particular requests and path for how to fully meet it, enter it, and wholeheartedly express one's relationship to it. So ever since my days in bag lunch, I've been trying to take up all my responsibilities and positions at Zen Center with this very question, what is the practice

[30:17]

For example, what is the practice of being a Doha? What is the practice of being Sheikah or the guest manager? What is the practice of being director at Tassajara? What's the practice of being a board member? And this question could actually be applied to any role or activity outside of Zen Center. For example, what is the practice of being a barista at Pete's? You know? or being a bus driver, or being a Silicon Valley executive, or a trash collector, or hospital patients, or a retired person, or a guest at the Four Seasons. All these can be held as practice positions, and they have their own practice requests within them, moment to moment, for you to discover. for yourselves.

[31:18]

And each of them is different for each of us as we take up whatever role or practice that we are invited to in the moment. And as you probably can recognize, there is not a set principle of practices for each of these jobs, even at Zen Center, even Dogen's Tenzo Kyo-kun. which talks about the practices of being the monastery manager of the kitchen, is a wonderful guide for how to practice in the kitchen, but it's not meant to be definitive. So we're encouraged instead to think of the question of what is the practice of from our own particular karmic vow or intention. And that's particular to each circumstance that we find ourselves in, moment to moment.

[32:20]

And I see this question as she relates to my earlier question of how to be in the world. How can I be in any position I am in, moment to moment, as a Buddha, expressing what a Buddha expresses, being awake here for everyone. and of service. So, whenever we approach practice in this way, what we discover, actually, are our particular challenges. Where we need to grow. Where we are stuck. Where we are blind. where we are struggling and suffering. It is on the practice edge that we thrive and grow.

[33:23]

It's not in a place of comfort. So whenever you're in a particular job, a work position, and you find yourself struggling, pulling your hair out, wondering, how am I going to get along with these people? How am I going to do this job? Why is this so difficult for me? That is the place to enter. That is the place to become intimate with what is happening right now in this moment and discover actually who you are, who you think you are in this moment. And uncover, is there something deeper to discover at that point of discomfort? So I've got to say, to be frank with you, that my job as program director in the last 15 months that I've done it, has probably been the most challenging and difficult job that I've had in the 12 years that I've lived and worked at Zen Center. Yeah, I really have to say that I just wonder how I've gotten this far in the last 15 months without pulling all my hair out.

[34:37]

What's left, the eyebrows part of it. But I also have really appreciated how it has brought me back to what am I doing here? And how am I going to be here? And that question has come more alive for me again because of the difficulty that I'm experiencing, the challenges that I'm experiencing in this job. So some of those challenges are by virtue of the fact that it's a new position, We didn't have a program director a number of years ago. It's in a new department. We didn't have a program department a number of years ago. So we're still trying to figure out how do we integrate both this position and its functions into this new department and its overall relationship to the whole organization of what might be the traditional temple structure. So of course with that is going to come some growing pains, difficulties, conflicts.

[35:41]

disagreements, confusion. What are we doing here? How are we going to do it? What's the best way to go about this? This is a very rich, fertile area and it's also a very uncomfortable area, at least for me and maybe some of the other people who are trying to figure out how do we go about doing this? How do we go about offering the best that we can offer in terms of dharma in a way that kind of meets as much need as you communicate to us. And so we're finding our way. I'm finding my way. And I appreciate that it's keeping me authentic in the sense that I'm actually getting more comfortable with saying, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't always like what I'm doing. I wish I had more confidence. and how I'm going about doing it. I wish someone would tell me how to do it, but that's not happening, in part because a lot of people don't know themselves.

[36:49]

We're all making it up as we go, and this is our lives. We're making it up as we go, moment to moment. And if you're in a job for 20 years and you think you know what you're doing and it's pretty comfortable, I'm sorry. Can you find an edge to even being in that place, a place to thrive? So I'm not going to bore you for hours about my many practice opportunities, as we call them, in my job, but I would like to maybe just focus on three. And where am I challenged and how am I meeting those particular challenges with my my own understanding of practice. So the first challenge is that one of busyness and overwhelm. And there's so much I have to do, so many expectations, that it's hard for me to feel that I can do it all at once.

[37:56]

And what I do when that arises is actually come back to the body. Our fundamental practice, come back to the body, to the breath, to the present moment as completely as possible. And that's connecting with the breath, pausing, watching the mind as it does its thing, watching the tension and the energy in the body, seeing if I can offer or bring some spaciousness to it. And then once I feel a little bit more settled and less caught, to then continue my engagement. Darlene Cohen has this wonderful book called The One Who Is Not Busy. I would highly encourage you to look at it and read it. And I'm also seeing that it's 8.30 and that we need to wrap this up shortly. So I'm just going to quickly mention two things, two more things. And the two of those is the practice of not knowing.

[39:02]

Can I be comfortable again? with not knowing what I'm doing? Resting in that place of being a constant beginner? How is that? Because frankly, that's where we are in every moment. Our moment-to-moment reality is that we are always beginners. Can I return to that and rely on that? Can I have no expectations, no ideas? Can I be okay with not knowing what the next moment is going to be, and not knowing what I'm doing and how best to go about doing it, but simply make my most sincere efforts. And then finally, the other part is this, the practice of no self. Can I not invest in what I'm doing in my position with my small self from a place of ego? Can I not identify with my job, my position, with my responsibilities?

[40:09]

Can I instead rely on this sense of interconnectedness, of dependent co-arising, that what I am and the responsibilities that I have and the conditions that are arising are dependently co-arisen, And we are mutually responsible for what is arising in this moment. And when I do that, it gives me a chance to step back and have, again, a little bit more spaciousness with how I hold my responsibilities and how I hold my job. And that how, once again, is most important. Coming back to how do I want to be in the world. How do I want to take up my Dharma position? How do I want to be with all of you in this moment? Regardless of whether or not I'm working, or simply sitting in the zendo, or being here, breathing with you together.

[41:19]

So maybe we have time for a question or two. Keep it short. And then we'll get out of here and go to bed. Anything you care to share? Yes? So this is just a question. I'm just thinking about, last Saturday, I actually exhausted construction. And at the end, one of the people there asked, well, is there a place I can go on the website to see a video about, you know, the different new girls? Do we have a sense of when we'll start having some visual instruction for people on the website? We don't have an exact timeline. We're currently working on what's, for lack of a better term, called the Fourth Practice Center, and that's kind of a, you know, if you will, Zen Center speak, because we have the Practice Center, and we're visualizing the Fourth Practice Center will be a website that will be in and of itself this wonderful practice gate for people, and that will include

[42:31]

you know, this very thing, instructional videos, classes, the ability to have and practice discussion, discussion groups. So it will be this whole virtual practice center. We're hoping that that actually becomes a reality within the year. It's taken us a little bit longer to make it happen, unfortunately. That's part of our learning process. But what do we need? What are the resources we need? But those kind of recommendations, please keep them coming forward and letting know, how can we serve everyone? How can we serve you? What are the needs? Yes? You mentioned that when you were younger, you were really focused on the end result of what your job was to help care or whatever. And then you mentioned that then you learned about the actual practice of whatever you're doing, doing it in practice. Going back, how important do you think is the question of what you... The result is, as opposed to what you're not focused on, the practice of what you're doing.

[43:37]

I can never control the end result. So first, knowing that. I can acknowledge the impact of what I say or do and what it has on another person, and I need to take responsibility for that in some way. But I also need to be able to be just... have faith that with sincere intention and with a conscious effort not to do harm, meaning making sure that that particular precept is forefront, that maybe I will hit the target, if you will, a little bit more, to if I can't accomplish what I think I want to accomplish, at least I don't hurt anyone. And I don't create more suffering for others. And we all have to take responsibility for however we experience the circumstances that arise.

[44:39]

But again, to just say, I'm sorry. I'm doing my best. Thank you for letting me know. And then going from there. And I'm sorry for running over time. And I think I'll end now because I know most of you have to go to bed. And so thank you for your patience. And I hope there was something of benefit here for you tonight. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, please visit sfcc.org and click Giving. May we all fully enjoy the Dharma.

[45:31]

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