This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good morning, whoever is in the video channel. And good morning to everyone here. As I was thinking about this talk, four stories came to me of what's happening in my life now.

[01:01]

And it was a through... line in all of those. Can you hear me? There's a through line of all those stories and the through line is basically don't hold on to ideas, don't hold on to thought, don't know. See if I can hold a space of don't know. This temple actually is named Beginner's Mind Temple. It's a temple of don't know. Suzuki Roshi said something like, you can help me here, in an expert's mind there's very few chance. And a beginner's mind is open, curious, ready. It's actually the mind of wisdom. It's the Buddha mind. It's an open, curious mind.

[02:02]

of not holding to some way that we think reality is happening. And in all of these four stories, it was in my face all the time. Don't know. Paradox. Balance. Two truths all the time. Space for not knowing. This not knowing arises also in a koan. It's the 20th koan in the Book of Serenity. A student is leaving a temple and his teacher sees the student going out the gate, I guess, and asks the student, reasonable question, where are you going?

[03:10]

And the student says, I'm going out on pilgrimage. And the teacher says, why? What are you leaving here for? Why? Where are you going? What's pilgrimage? And the student says, I don't know. And the teacher says, not knowing is most intimate. Or sometimes it's translated, not knowing is nearest. Not knowing most intimate. It's so important that we don't hold people in a box of knowing. I know that person. that person was so-and-so-and-so to me and I don't like him.

[04:18]

Or that person is a wonderful person. I like that person. But as soon as we do that, we put a person in a box and we don't let that person change. So the first story that came to mind was about this putting someone in a box I just made a boundary on a relationship that was not healthy and unsupportive of me. And at my age, I remember, you know, Darlene, Darlene was a teacher we used to have here, is a wonderful, wonderful person. And I forgot, that was a tangential. Something that happens when you're older is that when the mind, when you get distracted, sometimes you forget what you were talking about, which just happened to me.

[05:19]

Anyway, she was wonderful. to come back. It was something about putting people in a box. Anyway, so I put it, I put it, oh, thank you, it came down. So Darlene, let me say it quickly. So Darlene, at the end of her life, she had rheumatoid arthritis. It was even true while she was so-called younger, but with an old body. She said, I am being very careful now with whom I spend time. This was a real teaching for me when I was with her. She said, I just don't have the energy anymore.

[06:26]

So I have to be careful and choose what activity and with whom I want to do that activity because I just don't have the energy. So sometimes we're with people who for no fault of their own, but are in a stage where they pull energy from you. They use that energy. And as you get older, it's not that you don't care about things as much, but you kind of don't care quite as much as you did about things. And you care much less what people think of you, which is a wonderful thing about age. And so instead of staying in a relationship that maybe isn't so good for you, you don't, excuse me for putting it this way, but you don't care. You no longer feel like you have to take care of another person so much that your own well-being is compromised.

[07:34]

Darlene taught me that. She was good at that. So in this first story that I was thinking about to share, I put a boundary on the time spent in that relationship, but without categorizing the person as something. Because that person may change in two weeks, in six months, and be a completely different person. And when you're living in community, sometimes the community is slower than your change. So you have to act differently for a while before the community kind of catches up with that and treats you differently. So in that way, not knowing is a, it's not a, it's not like a, it's not like that.

[08:38]

It's grounded in a very deep, silent, Pam would say refuge, place, refuge. The second story that for me was about not holding to view, I'm involved with it. The same thing that I'm vaguely going to tell you about happened to me here. in this community as well. It was actually the reason why I ended up leaving the community and getting a job at high school. So in this community, how can I say this? I have to be careful.

[09:38]

I'll tell you about the story that happened to me here instead and see if I can make a reference. What happened to me here a long time ago is actually quite interesting. I learned an enormous amount. Sometimes when you're making your way through a maze in hell, you learn the most. If you stay open and don't categorize, don't grab onto thoughts, So what happened to me here was I was leading, I was the kanto at the time, and I was leading a rehearsal. And when I was, before I came to Zen Center, I was a music teacher, and I used to lead rehearsals of young people playing music. And when you are in an orchestra or any kind of group that you're doing music, it goes pretty quick, the rehearsal goes pretty quickly, and you just, if you hear something, a note that's off or something, a phrase that you want to play a little bit differently.

[10:46]

You just say, stop, you know, so-and-so and such and such, go back to, I was going to say paragraph, it's not paragraph, measure 25 and bing, and you start from there. And I was running this rehearsal like that. Bing, bing, and it's not a, there's no judgment there. Everybody's... in the same group, and we're trying to do the same thing, and we're just, you know, that was not correct. Play B-flat instead of B. I think I heard B. No, B-flat there. So somebody came into the, it was in the Zendo downstairs, and somebody, I thought, sort of rushed in waving a paper and wanted to get my attention, and I said, what I did was, not now. And that gesture was a public humiliation for this person.

[11:49]

It was awful. It was a real mistake for that person. And that person began a campaign of undermining me in all kinds of ways. This person was smart and funny and very clever. And every day at work meeting, this person would make a joke, a very funny joke, at my expense, day after day after day for a month. And I finally asked this person to stop, and they did. And then they started doing other things. We were both on staff, and the person would yell at me and staff. And it began leaking into the rest of the community, and so there was an ethics.

[12:53]

It was actually a trial. This was the first ethics thing that had happened here, and we didn't know what we were doing, and it was really horrific. There were witnesses, and there were... Second, people helping me, supporting. Anyway, it was a mess. So something like that is happening now in a community that I haven't been very involved in. And what I saw was I could see what was going to happen from how the leadership in that community was presenting this event. And basically, they had an idea of what happened. They held on to that idea. There was no room for nuance, no room for a balanced inquiries, not the right word, balanced procedure.

[14:03]

They didn't listen to any other points of view. And every activity that stemmed from that holding to view, no, every activity that happened stemmed from holding to that point of view. And it's been horrific. And tragic. Very sad. Katie, many of you I think might know this, Byron Katie does something called the work. How many people have heard of that? A lot. Some. Few. And she gives four questions that are very helpful for easing our gripping.

[15:05]

You know, Buddha said the cause of suffering basically is grasping, holding. So we should take his word for it. really hard when we think we're right to open our hand and listen to another point of view so her first sentence the first she says is if you have a thought in your mind that you think is true ask yourself is it true all the time is it absolutely true and that begins to wonder at that point. You have to at least do some inquiry. And then the second question, oh, this is similar, is it absolutely true? Is it true? Is it absolutely true all the time? Is there no such thing as change, basically? And this is a very interesting one.

[16:07]

How would I be if I didn't believe that thought? What would my behavior be if I didn't believe that thought? How would I feel if I didn't believe that thought? This is a very good question. And then you have to make a kind of decision because if you feel better if you didn't have that thought... Right? But sometimes we don't want to do that. We would rather hang on to the thought than feel better this happened with my brother who I endure my brother I can hardly get out of my mouth and I apologize to anybody who feels differently than I do but my brother is a trumper very happy trumper and I had to make a decision what

[17:12]

eight years ago now, the first time he was president, something like that, nine, my decision was, do I want to have a relationship with my brother, or do I want to be right? It's pretty interesting, right? And most of the time, it's not that rigid, right? I can still try to have some integrity of my own opinion and at the same time listen genuinely listen to my brother's point of view he has some points of view he has reasons so I watched I've been watching this community unfortunately in a very real way fall apart and hurt number of people many people be hurt, because right at the beginning there was rigidity around view.

[18:15]

So then I was going to tell you about another story, a little bit more personal. As some of you know, I had a, when I was a baby, 14 months old, 14, 15 months, 16 months, 17 months. During that time, I had a, I guess for that baby, that was a very traumatic period for me when I was a baby. And from that instance, basically my whole life has rolled out from that particular event. I'm 81. So I've been working on this for also about eight years. And recently I've been to a person who does brain spotting as therapy.

[19:35]

I do want to say something, you know, this path asks us to be very courageous because we are bound and driven by what is conditioned and unconscious. And in very real way, the point of this practice is to find where those places are and release them. This is the journey. The journey is all about not holding on. And we need to look deeper and deeper and deeper in order to be really free which I am determined in the same way that when I was that baby I was determined also to call for my mother who didn't come as I am now to be free so I am continuing to work on this particular thing and I'm going now to a woman who's a therapist who does brain spotting this is my show and tell

[20:43]

It lights up. It used to light up. I don't know. It doesn't matter. So what she did for me this last time I went to her, she put this on a, you know, this kind of antenna that used to stick up on a car that fold down. It's a stick, basically, that folds down. She put this on the end of a stick. that fit in this little hole over here. And she moves it around like this, and I'm just, she's watching my eyes, so it's like EMDR in brain spotting. You guys know more than I do about it. I was new to me. So she's going like this in front of me. She's holding it about here. And she's looking at my eyes, and my eyes respond to this. And she found something over here, and she found something over here. When it was over here, I felt threatened by it.

[21:51]

And she started moving it toward me like this. And I leapt out of my chair without thinking and smashed it across the room. Flew away, the stick left, the little beams that were down there that the stick was in, flew all over the room and stuff like that. I was threatened. And then she made me wear glasses. And first my right eye was covered and I was looking at it with my left eye for about five minutes. It's a long time when you're looking at something that you think is threatening, staring at it. Then she gave me different glasses with my right eye was exposed. I looked at it for five minutes with my right eye. This is very strange. My right eye was not threatened by this blue ball. But my left eye, when I uncovered it the other way, then she took the glasses off and I looked at it with both eyes.

[22:59]

And guess what? Excuse me for saying this, but I was going to swear I won't swear. It's just a stupid blue ball. And she moved it toward me, and I wasn't threatened. I mean, really. It's just a stupid blue ball with little spikes on it that I can squish even. It's no threat at all. And then, this was the most interesting part. Then she asked me, what did I learn? And I thought, you know, I don't feel myself being very self-reflective very much. I didn't think I was going to come up with anything that was like brilliant or deep that I thought she was asking me for so I said what I said was my brain is not telling me reality and she said exactly it was mind blowing to me because you know the nature of our mind is

[24:09]

vast and still and open, not judgmental, not located anywhere. But in my theory, when that vastness of awareness manifests through this particular form body, this particular form body has been conditioned. And it sees it, awareness, sees reality through this form in a distorted way. And in many instances, if we don't understand our conditioning, if we don't unpack it, we are living in a blue ball reality. Very distorted. I remember also a similar thing, a similar story.

[25:41]

I was doing one-on-one talking, reflecting, and this was a diamond approach moment. And we were two people. We were sitting in a hall. There were lots of two people all doing the same thing. And I heard something behind me. I couldn't understand the sound. that sound of the bell, lovely sound, not threatening at all. But I didn't know what was happening behind me. And I couldn't get up and turn around because I was in communication with this particular person. And because I had been sitting and was very kind of aware, I, right in the middle of this, noticed my mind making up a reality. It was fascinating. It said, oh, that's somebody tearing a box. And as soon as it said it to me, it was not threatening, I let it go, and I continued with this conversation.

[26:46]

I had no idea what was going on behind me. Just made it up. And then, if I held on to that view, if I thought that was what was real, I could have an argument about somebody, with somebody. Maybe they actually saw what happened. There would be two realities, and we would be fighting about it. But if I don't hold to that view, I could listen. Oh, you saw something different. What did you see? Not only could you give space, just like our original mind, space for everything to change, space for people being who they are. So my last story.

[27:50]

Actually, before I tell you the story, I want to mention something else because it goes to this story. Next story. At my age or when you get older, because we have seen this holding to view, letting go, being happy, being sad, being successful, failing, Over and over again there are these cycles of life. And by the time you're older and you've seen this enough, there's a real humility, a beautiful humility that happens. Because you don't think you know much. You don't need things to be a certain kind of way. You make your best effort. you know because you've seen it over and over again that basically everything changes, that we are totally, completely inter-being, inter, inter, not interconnected, that's two separate.

[29:12]

You know, we are inter-are, like Thich Nhat Hanh says. We've seen that so much that you hold what happens lightly. You care enormously. There's no shame and humility. doesn't come from that place. You can do your best, you let go. And then you appreciate life that you started this soul. We have a redwood grove not far from us that I can walk to. Really, it's like being in a cathedral.

[30:14]

The presence of trees is so palpable, all trees. So there's a real humility, a beautiful humility of not knowing. comfortable there. I don't need to know. It's in that place of that kind of humility that searching and seeking falls away. You're not needing to wake up. Still you practice, you do your best, but that energy of grasping, that energy of seeking, that's so painful, drops away.

[31:22]

This is intimacy. Real intimacy. Where I live, there's, I was in the, it's basically, it's a senior living complex. I refused, I refused to ride. You know, they take you to, they take you places if you want to go with them. They take you, we have like a bus, and on the side of the bus, it's a little bus, but it's a bus. And on the side of it, it says Enzo. senior living facility. I refused to ride in that bus. It's an interesting place. So I was walking down one of the halls in this place, and these two people who I kind of know were rushing by, and I was ready to greet them.

[32:33]

Hi, how are you? How's it going? And they said... We're in a hurry. We're going to the emergency room. Okay. Understood? And I live on the fourth floor, and there is an elevator, thankfully. And when I come down the elevator, when I step out of the elevator, on the right, there's basically a death table. Every time somebody dies, they have flowers, you know, and then they have a picture of the person. And then right next to them they have one page of the person's life. You know, it's a death table. So I noticed because the hardest idea that we do have to let go of little bit by little bit by little bit

[33:36]

is the idea of me, right? The idea, my identity of this child that had this experience, my identity with that, my identity of definitely not riding in that bus. That is not me, right? And now it ends up... There are more people there and there are more people in walkers, in canes. I'm more than happy to help carry a tray for someone in the dining room. More than happy to help push a wheelchair. Happy to do it. But that's not me yet. That's not me. It's a kind of a disabled-ism or age-ism, right, that I'm doing.

[34:45]

But it's not me. Yet. Soon. But not now. Yet. So the idea of me, any identity, also needs to be seen. We have to find these identities, find these places where we are making a me. We make it. We have to find these places that trigger us or that create behaviors that are time to let go. There's a beautiful well two things I wanted to tell you one because I just like it in the Bible when Moses there's a burning bush do you know the story there's a burning I think actually I didn't look it up so I'm not sure this is quite the right story but the punchline I do remember and Moses there's a burning bush and

[36:10]

And it's God, or however we think about God. In the Bible, it's like a personality. God is a personality. Very small, God. And Moses says to God, you know, this all-powerful, who am I going to tell the people? Who am I going to tell the Israelites I am talking to? You know, who are you, basically? Very Zen question. And God says, I am. That's it. I am that I am. I'm life. I exist as life. Actually, I think later that I just drops away. Just am. Just alive. Just life. This is God. It's also us, right?

[37:17]

I am that I am. It is that it is. Or Suzuki Roshi, what that famous line, things as it is, form emptiness. what this teacher said was it was an elderly of course now I really look up all these elderly people he said this beautiful thing an elderly Zen master when asked about death simply pointed to the falling leaves and said see how naturally how easily let go. Life is really simple.

[38:19]

It's not complicated. Just this. No time, no past, no future. Just this. If we take care of just this the best we can, we let go. and the next thing, and the next, and the next. Very simple. So let's all dedicate is coming together and talking about the Dharma in a prayer that human beings can find a way to live together and live with all beings in peace.

[39:24]

Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered at no cost and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[39:49]

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