This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfzc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. Good evening. Tonight, partly I wanted to talk about... a koan that's a favorite of mine that I've talked about many times, and I felt like I could talk about it again tonight because a number of the senior people are missing who have probably heard me talk about it about 100 times. But there may be some of you here who have heard it before, in which case I hope that's all right with you. And that koan is called The World Honored One Points to the Ground. So the story goes like this. The world-honored one was walking with the congregation, and he pointed his finger at the ground and said, this is a good place to build a sanctuary.

[01:05]

And I'm always, what, entertained by the fact that Indra, the king of the gods, was in the congregation. So Indra might be here tonight, too. But anyway, that day when Buddha... pointed at the ground and said, this is a good place to build a sanctuary, Indra picked up a blade of grass and stuck it in the ground and said, the sanctuary is built. And the world honored one smiled. So this story is, you know, it's pretty complicated in a way. Like just the word sanctuary is complicated. what it means. It can mean different things. It can mean a sacred place. It can mean a safe place. And in some ways it might mean neither of those in exactly the way that we normally think of them.

[02:09]

Especially when you can do something as simple as take a blade of grass, a very fragile, common item, and put it in the ground and say, the sanctuary is built. And Buddha agrees. So what is this about? What is this sanctuary? And I, of course, always think of Tassajara. Is Tassajara a sanctuary? And I think it is a sanctuary for many, many people. People return year after year after year saying, this is a sanctuary for me. I come here. to give myself the respite that I need to go back to my life and live a little bit closer to the way I want to live and take care of myself and my family, my friends, in the way that I want. And some of that strength and security and sacredness and safety come from being at Tassajara.

[03:18]

Of course, Tassajara is also not a safe place. Sometimes Tassajara is safe enough. It's safe enough that the unsafe parts of yourself can come out. And in fact, hopefully if you're a guest, it's mostly just safe. Hopefully. But if you're here as a student for very long, Tassara kind of pushes you to maybe the edge of your safety. I was remembering tonight, for some reason, my third practice period, I was asked to be the head of general labor. At that point, we had a work leader who was separate from the head of general labor, and I was asked to be the head of general labor, which was, you know, it was okay. I could tell these people how to do things like dishes and things, but then there were these other projects.

[04:20]

Like, there had been a big slide on the trail. You know, if you cross the creek down at the bottom of Tassajara and then want to go up on the Overlook Trail from that side, there was a big slide on that side with a tree was somehow part of it, and we were supposed to rebuild the trail. And then another thing that we were supposed to do is, if you go up to the, to Suzuki Roshi Memorial, and go on past there, and don't go down the other side, but go on up that little ridge, the hog back there, we were building a helicopter site. And they had started at the practice period before that, I think. Anyway, we were trimming the trees and stuff, the bushes, the chaparral that was around it, and putting these white rocks in the shape of an H so a helicopter could find it if it needed to. So I didn't know anything. We had to use chainsaws and shovels. And I didn't really know anything about any of that.

[05:22]

And these guys who were on my crew, those poor people, to be told in some pretty inept way, I think, how to build this trail and what they should do, I think it was pretty irritating for a number of them. There weren't so many of them. I only really remember one. I know there were others, but there was one. He was some kind of Scandinavian. His name was Lage, and he was about twice as tall as I was, and he was probably pretty skilled at some of this stuff, but I was the head of the crew. So I can imagine that it was a pretty frustrating experience for him, which maybe some of you have had a similar frustrating experience of being on a crew where it appears that the head of the crew doesn't know what they're talking about. Because, in fact, here at Tassara, we don't put people into a big training thing before they become the head of most crews. We just say, would you please do this? I don't really remember our interactions.

[06:26]

I just remember one afternoon when we were having tea in the dining room. It was a rainy afternoon, thank goodness, because what I remember is that I had to leave the dining room and go outside and cry because it was just so frustrating. That's the kind of sanctuary Tassajara can be sometimes. It's not like where you will never run into a crew head who's inept. It's not where you will never run into a crew member who is resistant. You'll run into lots of those kind of things, and you'll run into your response to them, which is, of course, the most difficult. So what is this sanctuary? How do you build a sanctuary? How do you make a sanctuary where you are? In the introduction to this koan, one of the lines says, who is this person who can meet the source in everything?

[07:28]

And this reminded me of the line in the harmony of difference, inequality, of the spiritual source shines clearly in the light. And I've often wondered, what does that mean? What does the spiritual source shining clearly in the light, what does that mean? And I'm thinking tonight that the source, you know, Suzuki Roshi says, the source is a very beautiful, wonderful thing. He says something like that, and then he goes on. Like, the source is a beautiful, wonderful thing beyond what we can think. He also says that, that we... We want to have something that we can understand, but that's a mistake. That the source is beyond what we can think. So without warning, I will still say that what I'm feeling tonight is that the source is kind of where we all come from. And it's where any particular moment comes from.

[08:33]

So in Buddhism, the teaching is that anything... comes from everything else you know that any any person any emotion any any anything comes from everything else you know everything up until that point has come together to make that thing so if that's the case you know any situation any person who we're meeting their source is kind of vast you know it's It's beyond what we could think about, but we could be impacted by both the ungraspability of it and the irrefutability of it. If everything is making this moment, if everything is making this person in front of me, it's pretty hard to argue with that. Not that we don't try. Of course we do.

[09:36]

We argue with it all the time. We think... That person should be different or I should be different. But when we are actually meeting the source in something, we don't argue with it. We're not even with our response to it. So it may be a very complicated event. It may be like I was describing, this complicated situation of everybody's past and present meeting up. and causing complicated emotions. Still, if we're meeting the source, there's a base of acceptance, a surround of acceptance. And I think that's what makes a sanctuary, is if we are, or to the extent that we are able to, what, admit realize maybe neither of those things and yet settle in that this is what's actually happening now.

[10:45]

There's no argument with this. Even if we might wish some part of it were different, that's still part of the whole event. Even our wish that it were different is part of what's coming from this gigantic source. that has come together to this minute. So in that sanctuary, in that safe, sacred place, we do our best. We interact with ourselves and with everything else as fully as we can. We express ourselves as fully as we can. taking this blade of grass and actually making the sanctuary, to actually create the sanctuary, is another... What does that mean, to actually pick up a blade of grass and put it in the ground and in that way make a sanctuary?

[12:07]

In the commentary it says... repairs will not be easy. No, repairs, you know, this sanctuary will be like washed away with at least a little bit of breeze that comes along with someone just stepping in the wrong place. This fragile sanctuary will be gone, but there's plenty of material for making another one. It's just remembering, in a way, just... Okay, here's my blade of grass. Here I will open my heart to this situation, to this person, to this me. Remember last week, some of you were here when Gil spoke about his time at Tassajara and how he felt like... Gil Fransdale, this was for those of you who weren't here. He felt like... A lot of his time at Tassajara was about discovering his mountain-ness, discovering that, in a way, he was like a mountain.

[13:17]

He was like flag rock, actually, sitting zazen while the weather of his emotions would come through. And over time, in the beginning, as he was sitting there, he was totally thinking about the weather, like, oh, today I feel terrible, today I feel wonderful. And then over time, he noticed that there was something there that was like the mountain, and then there were these sort of weathers that came through. And I thought that was really insightful, kind of something that can happen. When we practice, when we sit zazen, when we live in touch with ourself for a while, we can start to notice, oh, there's a stillness that's available even though change is happening.

[14:17]

Sometimes, I thought after he talked, when I was thinking about it afterwards, sometimes the change is not like clouds and wind coming by. It's more like earthquakes. It's like inside the mountain there are earthquakes happening. So can we have the same kind of openness, the same kind of settledness with even internal earthquakes, internal earthquakes, internal and external weather, Can we turn those into a sanctuary? Can we plant our fragile little blade of grass and say, okay, I'm going to be here in this place and see, is it safe? Is it safe to be me in this situation? have any thoughts yet that you would like to say thoughts questions I had another thought but it went on by and I'm not remembering it right now so if any of you do that might help me remember it if you don't I'll have to think harder I have a question yes Paul what helps to create the safety of the sanctuary

[15:54]

in the midst of the turmoil of our horizons. Yeah. What helps to create the safety? Yeah. I mean, partly I think that most of the unsafety is our imagination. That the safety is already there if we can just be there with it. That our biggest problem is We don't want to be there, so we start pushing things around to get away from, a lot of the time, from our self, a lot of the time just from our feelings, from our emotions. We sense a familiar, terrible emotion coming, sometimes without even knowing it, and we start wreaking havoc on things to get away from that. So if we can stay still, And by still, I don't mean not doing anything, but stay present that... I mean, again, this safety does not mean we're not going to die.

[17:08]

It doesn't mean everything is going to be peaches and cream forever. It doesn't mean that no one will ever get angry at us. It doesn't mean that we won't ever hurt anyone. So what does it mean? I think it means it is, I'm always searching for what the word is here, okay, okay to be who I am in a situation. Not that it's okay to defend who I am, to say this is right, how I am, that I'm angry right now is fine because you're terrible or because it's arising in me. It's not... It's not to hold on to who we are, but to actually be there with it because it isn't stuck. It's flowing. It's changing. So can we stay with the ebb and flow of ourself?

[18:11]

I think that's the big question for me. That's a big question in life. And I think Buddhism's suggestion is to try to stay with it and see is it is it safe already is it safe do you want to add a different answer or anything anything else yeah yeah i'm thinking about like a really intense situation when somebody is ill or dying and you're helping to take care of them the situation requires complete present attention like what's the next thing what do i have to do next but then i was thinking in the aftermath of that situation there's kind sometimes like there's a consequence like complete exhaustion or something for a long time or some kind of trauma and in terms of um staying present and staying with yourself

[19:20]

how do you know that you're doing that? You know, I mean, how do you know that you're staying present? Like if you're really present in a difficult situation, would you then not be so exhausted afterwards or would you then not like feel some trauma as a result of it? I mean, is, do you know? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I don't think that we know. I mean, sometimes we do have an experience of being really present. You know, sometimes in Sesshin, which is a long sitting that we do, you know, there might be an experience of being really present, but sort of noticing that experience is a little removed. So, as you say, often in those situations we're pretty present and pretty absorbed, you know, it seems logical that if we're really tired afterwards that there might have been some grasping there that might be part of what's, you know, what would like make this work, you know.

[20:32]

But I think there might just be other times when it's just like you're just full on absorbed in what you're doing and it's taking a whole lot of energy. So, you know, we aren't getting a grade on this. So we don't have to, like, keep track of it. How present am I? That's kind of not being present. One way to practice being present is to notice when we aren't being present. And to notice the habitual ways we do it, because we all have our habit of how to get away from the situation. If you start noticing, oh, I am daydreaming, or I want to play computer games now, or now I'm falling asleep, there are lots of different ways to not be present. And to get to know each of us, our habitual way of not being present, is very useful.

[21:37]

Because then sometimes we notice it, and we can just say, okay, just wait a minute, what am I... What am I trying to avoid? Just come back here. But to be trying to critique what's already happened, like, am I tired now because I wasn't present then? I don't know if that's so useful. I think it's more useful to, okay, now I'll be present with my tiredness. I mean, it's such a deep trend in us to critique something. How am I doing on this? It's like Suzuki Roshi saying, we think we're supposed to understand what the source is. That's what we're doing here. We're trying to understand the truth of Buddhism. I don't think so. I think in a way we are just here to settle that actually the truth of Buddhism or the truth of the source is present in...

[22:40]

everything in us, in everything, and mostly we're not available to it, partly because we're trying to understand, partly because we're trying to do lots of other things, you know, manipulate the whole world to be to our advantage and things like that. But part of it can be really supposedly good intentions, like trying to understand. Buddhism or the truth of it. And it's not that we shouldn't study and understand, but sometimes I think Tassajara... I said this to someone today or something like this. It was all just made up as a place to be where people could come and stay for a while and settle so that they could find out that it's okay to be who they are. And in this place, which was... away from a lot of things, so it's already much simpler than a lot of places, then they had to fill up the time with not too harmful things so that the people who were here supporting each other to do this wouldn't hurt each other.

[23:52]

So they'd have non-harmful things to do. So you say, okay, let's get up fairly early in the morning. That'll wear them out at night so they go to bed and don't cause trouble for each other. And then we'll have them chant for a while. That's pretty good. They won't cause too much trouble that way. Some people will get irritated by it, but it's okay. And then we'll have them sweep and cook and things like that so they can live here together. And I think most people who come to Tassajara have pretty beneficial intentions. They're phrased in different ways, but not many people come to Tassara thinking, I'm going to go there and learn how to be a better liar. Mostly they come because they want to stop hurting their spouse quite as much as they did before. Anyway, many things like that. But I think, especially if you're here as a student, that the real intention, or one way to say the real intention is,

[25:02]

I vow to stay with this karmic body and mind through this lifetime while it's manifesting itself. I vow to stay here and try to live this body and mind for the benefit of beings. But the way that it's kind of vowing to do that is just like you sit down and zazen. So you're just basically vowing to stay with it as a way. for it to be beneficial. So I think that most of us didn't think that was what we were vowing. We had some other higher intention going, some way we were going to really help the world or something, not just stay with this karmic body and mind. But I think that is what happens over time, basically. We settle into this life. this very particular life. And from there, we are much better able to interact with what comes to us.

[26:10]

We're much better able to meet it as the source, you know, that is everything has brought this incident, this person, this, you know, this failed casserole, this, all those things to right now. We're much better. better able to stay there with it. And then from that place, we can have more appropriate action. Anything else? Yes, Michael. I was curious when you said at the beginning about Tassajara is a safe place. You stopped. You said, well, it's safe enough. What would Tassahara not be a safe place? Well, it didn't feel very safe to me when I was the head of general labor, telling this resistant person who knew more than I did how to cut up trees on the Tony Trail.

[27:13]

It didn't feel safe to me. And I think that kind of thing, in many, many, many different forms, it maybe doesn't feel safe when... you're sitting in zazen and it gets to the end of the period and you want, you know, you just want the thing to end. You know, just ring the bell. Maybe it doesn't feel very safe at that point. Like maybe you think, I wonder if the doan could have gone to sleep. There doesn't, you know, does the eno keep a watch? Is anyone looking to see whether this person is awake? Have you ever had that thought? I've had that thought. Well, I think for most of us, most of the time that's the case.

[28:14]

But we are living under big trees and rocks, for instance. We're living in the bottom of a canyon where we are living in a very fire-prone area. Once there was an incident of elderberry poisoning here, where somebody made tea with the wrong part of an elderberry bush, it was bad. People had to be taken to the hospital by a helicopter that landed at that silly little sight we made and then said, we'll never land there again. So the helicopter could have fallen off the mountain. They're the same kind of unsafe things here that there are in other places. Mostly there aren't people out to steal things from people with guns or something. And I think you're right. Most of the danger that each of us faces is our own creation. The other stuff sounds like physical self-preservation.

[29:18]

sort of safety, and you also wasn't talking about the emotional safety that I feel being able to be in an environment. And the safety sounds relative, like it's not an actual safe or not safe, but it's my own ability to perceive or feel safe at the end of this, also my own ability to feel safe or not safe when this or that happens, which would be very similar to being, I guess, anywhere in regard to you know, the emotional side of things. I guess the physical side of safety could be more or less safe depending upon whether there were thieves or you were in a war zone or you were living in the suburbs. That could be pretty harsh too. But, you know, just depending on how you perceive maybe your emotional safety, what would make this different or sanctuary in that sense than if you were just, you know, dealing with the emotional things that arise as you go to your cubicle of work.

[30:21]

Yeah. You know, in some ways, nothing makes it different. If it did, if this were a really, you know, basically different place than that, then Buddhism would be very small. If it was only at Tassajara that that kind of safety worked, you know, wouldn't, I mean, it'd be nice for us who are here but it wouldn't be so nice for the rest of humanity. So in a way, there's nothing different. In another way, this, as I said, is kind of set up so that we can settle into it. You said ability, my own ability to plan a, you know, build a sanctuary. Ability sounds, to me, I... usually don't use that word because it sounds too much like I can do it and that's not so much my experience of how I would be able to feel safe it's more like capacity it's like somehow in this situation which maybe I can remember in the past in a very similar situation not feeling safe now somehow there's the capacity to feel like okay

[31:42]

I can stay here. And how did that come? It's kind of like sticking a blade of grass in the ground. Did I build a sanctuary when I did that? If so, I don't understand how. And yet, it feels like a sanctuary. Thank you. Yes? Yasi. Yeah.

[32:56]

I mean, we don't know how to do it. Whether you're staying at Tassar or not at Tassar, I think if anyone thinks they know how to do that, that's just going to be one more problem. We don't keep everything in mind, right? We don't have... like everything there, like what's going on for me here and what's going on for me there. It's more like we just are with whatever we're with, which means we are with everything, but our mind only takes in part of it. So if you leave Tassajara, you do the same thing you do here. You try to bring yourself back. And zazen is a big help for developing this capacity. How exactly? I don't know. I've got some thoughts about it, but they're just thoughts. How that capacity to... I think it does have something with learning, not necessarily learning in our mind, but more learning in our body that I can trust this situation, which, again, does not mean that I won't die.

[34:09]

It doesn't mean nothing bad is ever going to happen to me, but it does mean that... most of my coping mechanisms actually make it worse. Is that answered? I think it's time for us to end. So thank you all very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma Talks are offered free of charge, and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma. For more information, visit sfcc.org and click Giving.

[34:53]

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