And the warmth of the emptiness, the warmth of the nature of the Samantabhadra will manifest. Will is like the sun has a radiant, like the sun has the nature of the sun. It's clarity, illumination, like the nature of that Samantabhadra nature. It's a tremendous joy, explosion of joy, like when the first Bhumi or Bodhisattva stage is taken. It's an explosion of joy. Same thing, reaching their ultimate state of samantabhadra, there's infinite kind of happiness in their mind, because once they get free from the entire open field, at the same time the world of the clarity manifests. So it's like tremendous clarity and presence is there, and every aspect of their time. display, the expression, become like a great offering, a food towards the persons at the stage. Whether one has a very negative thought or whether one has a very positive thought, they are equal at the stage. And one can be a realistic equity because they are both liberated.

[01:05]

Equals mean they are both liberated. And one is in the state of liberation. One is not in a state of being solidified. One is not in a state of being confused at the stage. And that may happen when, you know, through an effort practice. Without an effort, one cannot attain such a state. And one of the importance why when we begin the teaching it says that when it is hard at the beginning to gain some realization in a very distracted place because the mind does not have much strength. That is the reason. Mind does not have much strength to face that. you may find yourself instantly, you know, being carried away. Instantly a thought, instantly a fear, instantly a hope to come and then immediately create a substantial kind of experience right there. So one is already lost. One does not see the presence of the

[02:08]

one does not see the presence of the liberated state at that stage. So already, immediately, one finds oneself caught up. And once it's caught up, then the moment that solidified experience manifests into our mind, then immediately we start to see ourselves externally, And then that could lead to the next connection and next attachment and next attachment. And then it keeps on going and going and so it becomes endless. So therefore, how important to have that clear fundamental presence is so important. The fundamental presence is so important. When a person loses their fundamental presence, then one may find after some time, so far away, that it's almost like at this stage, there will be a person keeping doing meditation. You will find this stage after some time, that how it begins so subtly,

[03:15]

How subtly this hope and fear manifests itself. That is the point which one is to overcome. One is to cut that subtle aspect of hope and fear. And once the subtle already starts forming on, one may not see at an early stage how that subtle is manifesting. One may only see the gross part. But then, you know, one may find one said after some time, how the subtle aspect of it, a subtle aspect of that hope and fear taking us so instantly and immediately creating an existence of the So that is how it's very, it's almost like those who have never done Dharma practice never heard that. It's almost like one may not even recognize that, one may not even see that. it's happening from such a sensitive, it's so, it's so, it's like a so fragile, you know, it's like so sensitive it's happening, it's almost like one see one set in an external consciousness.

[04:19]

So if we use the word consciousness, the very gross thought is called external consciousness, the mind, gross mind is mind consciousness, the same word, there is no difference, because there is mind or consciousness means which can think, which can perceive, that is called consciousness or mind. So there's no reason to get confused that consciousness is one thing and mind is the other thing and soul is the other thing. We may say that our spirit is something more like heart and mind is something somewhere else. Those are just labeled actually. It's just a projection of the own mind. But basically consciousness or mind or whatever we may call it is one thing. And then in that aspect, the gross consciousness, the gross thought, and there's a subtle thought, and then the very clear presence. So to be able to experience that clear presence, that is what the ultimate attainment of our reality is. That's called the spiritual path.

[05:22]

Now, if there is something called spiritual path, it is labeled as spiritual path. Actually, there is no such thing as a spiritual path or a secular path, because in our relative definition, secular path means something like ordinary start, and spiritual path means the true nature of their mind. So that is what you should look at it. In general, in this world, we are fortunate enough that there are teachings. In that point, there's a spiritual life and a secular life. But in point, when you reach the essence of this mantra by the book, nature, that is your very nature. That is a very simple and direct and fundamental state. So, this mantra about the Buddha never says that I'm so special, and I'm so great, and does not have any grasping that, oh, I've reached the heights of the states, so I'm great, and the other person does not have. If there is such a substantial thing, that is like, you know, hope at first manifesting.

[06:25]

They do not have no pride. It's absolutely even more simpler than anybody in the basket. Their mind is like a stainless sky. But who became more pride and more miraculous, kind of strange, is the dualistic mind. It's not the non-dual person. The dualistic mind started to manifest, create that whole different existence and started to see many things. While the non-dual Samantabuddha nature is so clear and simple and straight there. Like the sun. The sun is very simple. Quietly it shines in the morning and does not say, I'm coming, you know. And that's it. Very simple. We can all see the effect of that. So that's like that. It does not have any part containing the experience. So on reaching such a state we have to We have to develop on the path very carefully and I would like all of you to be a good Dharma practitioner.

[07:29]

Then it will be very beneficial. You will find a happiness in the depth of your heart. Then there is beneficial for all of us to get here together and me giving a teaching and you hearing a teaching, there is a benefit. And then there's something when we find enlightenment in time. But if we do not follow the steps, do not understand our mind carefully, then one will always be in the state of confusion. And then this thing does not help. So one has to be really a true doctrine practitioner. being insightly practicing Dzogchen, outwardly practicing it, outwardly being more like skillful men. At the same time, the skillful men is not, you know, the Dzogchen practitioner is very open, who has the greatest skill at the same time. because Dzogchen, experiencing true nature of their mind, the skill, the warmth of that compassion is even much deeper than any stage has, because it's the ultimate samantabhadra nature.

[08:36]

One can manifest in any way, in any form, and it will be absolutely for the benefit of being, because one has completely liberated oneself from that grasping state, so there is no confusion. It's like a clear sky of mind. So at the same time, the warmth of that quality is like the sunshine. And it's like the compassion. That is the sixth parameter of Bodhisattva Yama. and all different aspects which will manifest in infinite different styles and infinite different fashions, and all aspects of life, so that it will communicate and transcend the hope and fear of the already. But to reach such a state for once and for others, it is not complicated. All we need to do is every day, you know, sometimes observe the mind. how it is happening in our life. And sometimes bring the practice into effect. And sometimes, you know, maybe it's very important in the early morning, you know, first you do your practice, what you have to do, and then you do your meditation, integrate your meditation.

[09:42]

And also sometimes you may find yourself not being able to be in the presence all the time, which is a little bit hard. And if you find yourself being ruled out by the influence and ruled by circumstances of duality, then perhaps do not try to create a very negative karma. So in that way, I'm not saying that anyone of you are doing any negative karma, I think everyone is wonderful, but sometimes the duality is so tricky you may not know what you're doing. So just from that point, one has to be, you know, a little bit, develop more compassion inside, develop more strength inside, and that will keep itself, and that is very important. So then integrating that process. And then one may understand something more deeper and as I said, the state of expression of the absorption is far more superior.

[10:44]

then it's the sutra yana because it's the vajrayana the top of the nine yana stage and then one finds that expression in infinite qualities where there is even the great teachers in the past, the 84 great Mahasiddhas, the way they have taught in infinite styles. Because all those, the wisdom is so great, so vast, that it is not a black and white teaching. It does not just have one style and one way. It can manifest in all different styles. As I said, there is even a precept for the liars also. There was a time during the 84 Mount Cedars, there was this Mount Cedar called Taganapa. And before he became enlightened, he was a liar. And that's his livelihood. He can make his living by cheating people, by deceiving people all the time. And then one day he was sitting on a log, and now he's looking who he can cheat and who he can deceive.

[11:53]

And then there was a monk passing by. This was a very great monk. I think it was a great Vajrayana monk. It's a very great monk. And as that monk was passing by, the monk asked him, what are you doing? He was sitting there on a log, trying to cheat something. And now since he saw a monk, of course it was difficult for him to... So he said, please don't ask what I am doing. And the monk immediately knew that he was... The monk said, don't tell lie. If you tell a lie, it will create a negative influence and energy of karma to you, and that you will experience some suffering experience later in your life. And besides, or whatever you see in the future, telling the lie, one loses the speech power. One loses the speech power, and it will not be affected. Losing the speech power, it will not be affected.

[12:55]

Then it will, from the point of enlightenment, it makes this speech chakra completely confused and it makes this not very clear. So do not do that. And he didn't know that the karma also applies to telling lies. And he said, oh, no wonder how people see me. And he really got very shocked and he got very surprised that telling lies is not good. And then he said, what should I do now? I tell lies without exception. And what should I do? And the monk said, well, can you do a sadhana? I practice. And he said, well, I don't know why, but I'm not sure because I've been used to telling lies all the time, so I may still tell lies. And the monk said, well, do you know there is even a precept for the liars? And he said, oh, I don't know. Please teach me. And then at that stage, the monk looked at his state of mind.

[13:58]

This is how the Vajrayana teachings are taught, this deepest state of the mind, this consciousness level, everything. And the monk gave him the teaching right there, see. Inject the water into the ear to get the water out of the ear. If you have to get the water out of the ear, you have to inject a little bit more water, then the water will come out. He said, see the phenomena as a lie, there you will see the truth. Because he was always seeing everything as a lie. So the monk gave him the instruction, inject the water into the ear to get the water out of the ear. See the phenomena as a lie, there you will see the truth. So then for him that was easy, because he was lying all the time, so he saw everything as a lie. And that was true because there is no reality in the experience of the expression. All the life is the experience of the expression. So getting caught to the experience, as I said, the presence of the mind, most of the time we find ourselves

[15:00]

living in the experience than living in the presence. We find ourselves living, getting caught, getting seduced by this experience, seduced by experience. For the person in the spiritual path, sometimes they get seduced on the blissful experience, clarity experience, or some kind of emptiness experience. And for a person who does not do, you know, same thing, you know, one gets seduced to all different kinds of experience which manifests and which gives birth all the time which is basically the expression of their mind not knowing that expression as simply the expression one is seduced to that experience and that is where the world duality and co-care are placed within that experience of the manifestation of the presence so therefore he said Every experience, there is no reality in the experience. So see the world phenomena as a lie and there you will see the truth. So meditate for seven years on that practice. Seeing the world phenomena, there is no reality in phenomena. Everything is just all fuss of experience.

[16:03]

Like, what is the reality in a dream? Everything is a lie. There is no such thing as reality. It's the same thing. There is no realistic enough. So he meditated for seven years, seeing every entire phenomenon as a lie. And after seven years, then he found a great realization, and that wasn't big enough. And he met his teacher, and he said, did I get enlightened? And his teacher said, no, you still have to do something more. And finally, he became one of the greatest masters. So there is something for everybody. And so the teachings are not black and white. This is the way, and we have to do it like this all the time. What one has to understand, teaching the Dzogchen mind is the most colorful state, which shows us the presence so clearly that one transcends the entire black and white state, one transcends the entire characterization of the duality at that stage. So it's like the ultimate, you know, in depth. because the strength, the way it can true sense, it cannot be compared at all with the lower teaching, because that presence which has been introduced is so strong, it's like the sun itself, that there is no comparison to any other state.

[17:20]

So therefore, and if we are not able to maintain that stage, then it would not be any effective. Just simply saying that, oh, my Lama says the nature of the mind is empty, and I think it is empty, and then if you just started to have an understanding and not really practicing, it would not be effective to transcending that karma, transcending that experience. Transcending the experience is like getting caught to the expression of the presence. One cannot transcend that expression and be caught to that expression as an experience. So even if one is able to remain in the A quiescent state, simply experiencing a quiescent state, it does not liberate the mind from duality. It is another aspect. It is better than experiencing a tremendous kind of difficulty, but it's still the same.

[18:22]

The coessens cannot liberate the mind from the samsara. It can even get too much attached to the experience of coessens. After some time, it is the very source of deceit to be born into the desire. And if one gets attached to the experience of the clarity, then that will be the very cause to be born into the formless dream. And if one gets caught to the experience of emptiness, then that will be the very cause to be born into the formless dream. And if one gets caught to the experience of anger, that takes one to the experience of this hell dream. and even get caught to the experience of ignorance that gives the birth to us animally. So that is how when fine ones are constantly being influenced and being seduced by the experience. Experience is almost like surrounded all the time. But the experience cannot seduce us if we are in their presence.

[19:25]

What happens? The experience becomes liberated. And that is where really the point lies. The expression becomes liberated. The expression at this stage is not liberated. That is what you solidify. The expression becomes solidified. And for that a person has to deal a great experience into the practice and then one can really transcend the fire passion. Transcend the fire passion. And then naturally we'll see the presence of the fire wisdom at this stage. And if one is not able to have the totality realistic experience of that emptiness, then it would not simply work just by thinking of our emptiness. So it's different. Understanding and realization are different. First understanding is important. Without understanding, then the experience is more difficult. For that reason, they do a three-year retreat going into a cave.

[20:27]

They do a six-year retreat, a nine-year retreat. And so it gives the better opportunity. Or if in a city, if you're living in a city, In our cases, how one should do, because I know we have to be in a city and we have to be in a town, one should have a set up of time every day. Early morning do a practice for one hour, twelve, whatever. And do that every day. Do not make a breakage in that timing. However, during that time, no telephone calls, nothing. It is absolutely your time. and make it like a timing so that it could never be changed by anything. And don't do too many. Just do a little. Don't do a little bit from here, a little bit from there. If you do too many, then after some time you will get so distracted you may find yourself busy into all these things. In essence, they are all one. So there is no need to do too many. But whatever you do, do that very well and do it very purely.

[21:28]

And make a set of time. In that way, the continuity brings more greater fruit than a quantity at the same time. If one tries to do in a quantity level, oh, today I'm going to do my meditation, spend 15 hours, and then, as I said, the mistake of meditation is like either too hard concentrating or too loose. Today you become so serious, it's too hard. And after, there is nothing for the next 20 days. And then after the next 20 days, oh, I've got to do my meditation. And then again you do it harder. And in that way you find yourself absolutely the same as the ordinary state of the mind. It does not find any realization. And that should not be. Continuity in the practice is so important. Continuity is important in every aspect of life. We can see that when we go to study in school, we have to spend many years, and then we pass the graduate, and finally we reach the university.

[22:33]

We didn't reach the university, we just went to class two days, and then suddenly we find ourselves, you know, one day at the university. It doesn't work like that. There is a continuity. And whoever can will that continuity wins, you know, succeeds, because at this stage there's a level of karmas, and all this karma manifests, and we'll keep on liberating those karmas, we'll keep on finding, after some time the present becomes so clear that none of those karmas can affect, then one is able to see the total clarity, like the entire cloud is removed from the sound, from the sun, and then the sun shines like that. Then the five-piece dimension manifests into ourselves. And that is how my teacher used to say, a very intelligent mind, he said, a very intelligent mind and a diligent mind, the diligent mind would make things.

[23:34]

The intelligent mind will just pick up very quickly, but then it will just leave after a few days. But the intelligent mind will keep on pursuing a continuity, will not do much, but, you know, keep on doing, and then eventually it will be great. It's exactly, we have the story of the race of the turtles and the turtle and the parrot. It's slow and steady when there is. So even in meditation it has to be like that, a continuity every day. You should not push yourself too much. If you push yourself too much, it will create like an unbalance in the element. then if you meditate too hard, it will bring the word element up, so you don't find the clarity at all. And if you become too loose, then one is completely being carried away into the experience of that, again, according to experience, which becomes confusion, the source of the birth of existence. So therefore, one make a balance, one understand, you know, very relaxed, and sometimes

[24:42]

Also, while doing practice, it brings, it cleans everything so quickly. This life, when we clean a sewage system, of course, when you go to clean a sewage system, it's going to smell at the beginning, right? It's not going to have a very beautiful perfume coming out of the sewage system. So first it's going to smell, but after smelling it, then they will be clean. Like that. So sometimes when you're in your presence, there will be kind of experience of resistance also. Because it's the biggest threat to the hope and fear. The presence, the realization mind is the biggest threat to confusion. One has to understand that. The biggest threat to confusion is the realization. And that hope and fear, it will be slightly suiciding. It's like a suicide for the hope and fear when a person does this practice, particularly bringing the presence of this optionation. So then it will start to play all kinds of gaming, all kinds of manifestation experience.

[25:46]

Oh, now do this, now do that, you know. And if you get lost, you are again carried away deep into samsara. deep, [...] almost like a black cloud inside. You don't even see where you are. One can almost find oneself in the middle of some sausage and be eaten by everybody. Never know who is eating and who is not eating, you know. Like that. So there are so many things like that and one has to have a great presence into that. And there will be many things like that coming up. So there's an experience of resistance, and that's called, in practice, it's like brings out all of them. When those experiences are brought, if one gets seduced and gets distracted and grasps those experiences, then they rule. And then again you lose yourself, you lose your Christ.

[26:47]

Then you never see the liberation point of this experience. So one is to be very strong, one is to be tremendous devotion. You know, devotion is one of the strongest things in liberating all this confusion. One is to mingle the Namo Amaya and then You know, bring it to the protectors, to the enlightened mind, in front of the sky, visualize it, and make this obstacle go away. Because their energy has been the enlightened energy, so when it receives that energy, it is able to overcome those obstacles. And then, you know, it's called, there's three kinds of, qi, phong, nan, sung, external, external phong is almost like vaporizing. External vaporizing, internal vaporizing is secret vaporizing. When the external vaporizing comes sometimes due to one's own many karmas, now the karma started to go away, then we get physical sickness sometimes. And when we have a physical sickness, basically when we go through the karma, we should be very... If it's a person who can really see it clearly, we should rejoice at this stage.

[27:57]

Because I'm really getting rid of my karma, which I've done it. However that karma is. And one should never have any aversion to what is to eat. There is no need to create some kind of resentment, some kind of anger for what we are going through. One should see, well, this is my karma. And of course, every experience of life is like a dream. There is no reason to make it like substantial, permanent, nothing. It's one of the expressions. getting caught to expression, it has manifested such a lifestyle in this life. So when they decide, I'm getting rid of my karma, may all the sentient beings, they get rid of their karma. May they never experience like this. May I be able to take that. A bodhisattva will even take the suffering of others at this stage. And then, You know, and that's because the strongest healing which gives us tremendous birth of fruit from this karma. So because of many karmas in our lifetime, all kinds of things, who will be, you know, who is at the reception, you know, there's presence, and at the reception there's the presence and hope and fear.

[29:02]

You know, at this usual ordinary state, hope and fear, you know, tells do this and do that. Now the presence is not given the state of liberation. So it's almost like at the reception, when you come in contact with all the karma, it's hope and fear waiting there on two chairs. You go there and then you go there. So the presence is almost obscured because the reception is done by the hope and fear. So the presence is completely obscured. So therefore all karma we create more and more. It gives connection to more and more people. So that particularly in the practice of dharma and particularly the adoption practice, which brings the presence into reality, which brings the presence into effect at that stage, the hope and fear, which also, you know, is like, as I said, the biggest threat, and so therefore all different kinds of vikarva manifest, it also brings the resistance, in which sometimes we see, you know,

[30:07]

Or now I just can't do it. And sometimes one feels like fear inside. Or sometimes one feels like certain kind of things. And all those things, the internal fears and internal seeing doubts towards the Lama, seeing doubts towards the teaching, those kind of things will happen also sometimes. We're seeing having a doubt towards the Nama, having a doubt towards teaching. And when those kind of things happen, it's the crucial point. That is like the boundary, whether you step outside or whether you go back to the same old start. That kind of secret obstacle is called the secret obstacle, and that is the most crucial point. When that kind of experience arises, one is to be very strong. No matter what happens, I'm never going to give up. Because actually what happened, the experience becomes so strong, the experience becomes so strong at that stage that one loses almost the ground of presence. Of course the presence is always there, but you have been introduced to a presence.

[31:12]

So you know the presence, you are doing it. And you trust your presence. At the same time, the experience becomes so strong that you just think, oh, now what should I do? And then you'll be clinging to that experience. You are entertaining that experience. It's very hard for you to really see that into the nature of emptiness because one is used habitually in getting attached and getting caught and solidified to the experience. And when it's coming to the ultimate verge for you to get enlarged and the resistance will be stronger also at the same time. You know, sometimes it will depend. Depends on the person's connection with the teacher. If it's a very pure samaya, it will be very easy. Sometimes it also depends on karma. If on a certain strong karma, sometimes it appears to be strong, but that is the time. no matter what, you know, dissolving the lama's heart. And then, you know, being in the present, then it can go away completely.

[32:17]

And when that vanishes, that person finds great confidence. Now there is the presence, always with the nature, you know, and then none of those can... So it's very cheap. Sometimes you see like strange beings also. You start to see spirits, you get scared. These are all like expressions of the mind, you know, displaying in those stages. Or sometimes you start feeling bad, or things like that. Many things can happen. And also on the path, even to get caught and completely rest in the state of quiescence is also not recommended. But it's good for the time being, those who have never experienced that state, it may be good. You should experience a quiescent mind. But the Dzogchen practitioner even has to, cannot get sleep, he cannot get seduced by that thing. If you get seduced, you are again not being able to cut your fundamental power deep inside yourself, that you see your external vision as something far more superior than yourself, and therefore you do not see the presence of the Buddha-nature light inside.

[33:27]

So therefore, it requires tremendous practice. So therefore, I'm telling you, develop your devotion, develop your compassion, develop your love. All the time, be in the presence. And simply being in the presence, it includes everything. There is absolutely perfect. That's called the great perfection stage. But until there, there will be a lot of tests. And one has to be strong all the time. And to have your presence is extremely important. And then, after some time, whatever the arising state of the mind, it will liberate itself. Like at the beginning, it's like the meeting of the true person, like meeting with the mother and the son, or like meeting with the true person who know each other. Then in the middle, it will be like the releasing of the twist of the snake by itself. Finally, it is like the thought itself liberates, like if a thief enters an empty house, If a thief enters an empty house, there is nothing to steal.

[34:29]

And then at this stage you will see your Lama into the Buddha because you see yourself into the state. So the old duality at this stage is dissolved. And then once you really see what is the Buddha nature, this is what, oh wow, this is what it is, then you will have a confidence, and then the strength of that qualities are infinite. As I said, the first stage of Bodhisattva itself, you know, naturally spontaneous, it's given us 1,200 different forms, and those are inconceivable qualities. But one finds into absolutely clear and clear, you know, cannot be ruled by any circumstances furthermore. And that kind of stage one has to be developing tremendous compassion and true practice. So, you know, as we all know that, I don't think so, people would have time to do like nine days retreat or whatever, but it doesn't mean that we won't reach that stage. We will reach that stage. What we have to do is you make a time every day.

[35:30]

You know, do at least one hour. You know, you should at least, you have to practice. You know, it's so important that one hour is nothing. You have to, out of 24 hours, one hour, of course, you have to heal yourself. You know, if you do not spend an hour, how can you reach such a stage? So, one hour at least, you make a time every day. At that time, you wake up Make yourself disciplined at the beginning and then, you know, gradually it will start to develop. Gradually you will find it easier and easier. And then, you know, in the meantime some... integrate that and you don't have to push yourself into doing too many things just keep on doing it and then over the times after five months six months when you look back you find yourself much clearer much stronger that now the external phenomenon does not rule you anymore you have a clear presence and they all become like same taste you can dance with the you can dance with the beautiful uh... circumstance in nature and you can dance with the negative circumstance and nature, both are equalistic, both are liberated.

[36:32]

It's like the painting of the body on the water. When you paint the head, you know, and when it comes to the body, that disappears and liberates. So same thing, none of those substantial on-facet experiences is able to rule the life. And then one's become free from the dream experience, what one is going through. So that is how And to experience such a transcendent realization from our five passions and from all this fear, one needs tremendous practice integrating into life. And to practice a little bit more tolerance. His Honour Spener Rimbouchi was telling me last time as I was there, he said when he was building his monastery and when he was raising up the thing, it was difficult. But the more difficult it was, the more the tolerance was there, the more deeper the realization was. And that is something we need to deepen, our tolerance. We need to deepen our patience also because it's very important.

[37:34]

That's how we can bring harmony and peace to ourselves and to others. Though there may be the wrong The wrong trickiness will be that they will be resisting. We don't want to be patient. We want to fight. We want to kill our enemy. And that does not end up the solution. We see that that kind of seed brings more suffering. We can see the war between Iran and Iraq. There's more suffering. There's more hate than ever before. And it's like never it's going to end up. So only it can be ended by seeing one's true nature, then we can find enlightenment, we can find realization, we can benefit and help other beings. So something we need to develop on many different levels, and that is very, very important. And then? If, you know, hearing such a great teaching on Dzogchen and then not being able to integrate the presence, then after some time you take the teaching as an understanding in your mind.

[38:38]

Then, you know, understanding is like a mist. Understanding is like a patch. You see a mist, you know, it appears to be there and after a few hours it will be gone. There is no more mist. So understanding is like that. You think, oh, it is empty, you know, and you say, and sometimes you experience a certain state of it, and then you don't do it at all, you completely leave it. In that way, it is called that once that once, if you spoil the mind, you know, if the presence is lost, you recognize the presence, and if you do not integrate that, and again completely surrender yourself under the influence of the habit of duality, then one may never wake up. Awakening state will never happen. Then it's called the present being stolen by experience, almost. I would say present being stolen by experience at this stage. One may never... come to stage how one can be free from all the experience of the duality. So to free oneself from the experience of duality, one has to maintain the presence.

[39:44]

At the beginning, one needs the mindfulness also. One needs the presence, awareness there. Because the beginning, Dzogchen stage, is like meeting with the true person. So there is, that's the point why it says meeting with the true person. Later, the experience itself is like the releasing of the nut of the snake, which does not need help of anybody. The snake doesn't need help of anybody to open its nut. It can open itself. The thought will arise and it will liberate itself. That is the experience in the living. Thirdly, the experience is none of them can affect anything. However, in the empty room, the thief cry, or keep smiling, or whatever happens, but the empty room is unaffected. So that is how there are different stages explained. First is the meeting, knowing of each other. And in the middle is the snake releasing. And the third is like the empty room. And that is how then one reaches the state of Samyantabhadra.

[40:47]

And like that, complete, free from all this experience, the layers of experience at this stage are being influenced and supported by our habits. So then, you know, one peeling off that, peeling off that, and then insert that clarity, that is called the Dzogchen. Experience is not conception. Some people think they just experience a quiescence, and that is social nature. That is simply, as I said, if you get attached to that, then you will be born into a desire. That is the discourse to desire. And that would not affect to liberate any passion. That would not, there's just not a discernibility. It can just create you some kind of, you know, quiet and maybe a nice feeling. And it does not liberate, it does not liberate spirituality. So this... you know, this teaching, the three words, three essential words, is given to, which has been expounded by Padma Rinpoche, is the teaching of the Garab Doji, which Garab Doji, the ultimate teaching, given from the space, Garab Doji manifests from the space and gives to Jambal Sriniv, this three-word teaching, and it's something very, you know, if one can do the practice, one finds realization within this lifetime, and, you know, and, uh,

[42:09]

as I said, within this lifetime or within the three lifetimes one can be a realization. And even in this life one has tremendous freeness from all of our karmas and there's tremendous blessing. And it's the ultimate yana of the teaching. And one has to, this kind of teaching should not be Talk to people from outside who never have understanding. This teaching should be only keep for yourself. You should not talk this to other people outside. Only those who have experienced, those who did something, one could sometimes relate it. But it should be only your practice so that your practice becomes clear. And the tips you have taken should not be listened by people who have never received this teaching. There should be something kept for yourself. Because those who have not received it, if they cannot understand, because the teaching has to be directed given transmission, mind-to-mind transmission, and it can be understood. Otherwise, it cannot be understood.

[43:10]

Simply hearing a mission is almost like different. So therefore, keep this teaching as a secret and do it for your own practice. But the other teaching is like, you know, You can explain from the experience teaching. There's experience teaching and there's presence teaching. The presence teaching is called the ultimate teaching. The experience teaching is called the relative teaching. Within the experience, it teaches how the experience of the life begins. Cause and effect are all experience teaching. You know, while the present teaching transcends all cause and effect. So Dzogchen is transcendent of cause and effect, because it's come to the ultimate stage of the Samyutta Bhagavad Gita. So most people are living in the experience realm, so you have to relate from the experience realm. So you have to understand that. That's it. Now let's... Explain again what you should talk about and what is okay. I don't quite understand. Now, meditation, basically, keep it for yourself.

[44:13]

Cause and effect, you know, helping others, which I will explain more and more in this talk, and those are important. Like shamatha meditation, those you can explain yourself. So, okay, now I think today we can go next to the ocean. Right now maybe it's a good time to go next to the ocean and let's do a session there. So today I will explain a little bit about how the five passions are translated into the five wisdoms. But basically, that is something to be practiced and to be experienced and to be understood. Whereas understanding is important in a way, but the five wisdom needs to be experienced than just simply being told that it would be like that.

[45:17]

And to be experienced, one is to understand the view so precisely And then, like the nature of the fire is a warmth, and the nature of the emptiness is a wisdom. The warmth of the fire is the nature. But to express and experience that wisdom, one has to have the perfect understanding, the perfect experience, the perfect realization of the view. If one does not understood the view correctly, the presence clearly, then perhaps one may not extend, then one may never experience that, the qualities of the wisdom. So, and for that there are many levels, many stages of meditation as you might all know.

[46:26]

the meditation which we go through in Hinayana, the meditation which we go through in Mahayana, and the meditation which we go through in Vajrayana. And Vajrayana, it's all there, various levels of meditation, meditation done with forms and meditation done without forms. And meditation done by concentrating on certain windows, certain letters, as I explained this morning, in introducing the state of their mind, the way it functions, there is these two levels, as I would say, the teaching of experience and the teaching of presence. Now, teaching of experience will relate the entire teaching from the hyayana level to mahayana level.

[47:31]

a great extent of teaching is taught within the context of the teaching of experience. And our teaching of presence is limitedly shown within the Hinayana teaching. It's not shown completely. But there is a limited presence nature which is introduced and out of that a person's attained the stage of Arhat, the total transcendence of the gross element. But the subtle transcendence is still to be worked on the path. So when the Hinayana Arhat attained the state of realization, remained in a pure land, for millions of years in a Buddha field.

[48:35]

Sometimes they give birth in the flower, and within the flower they meditate next to a Buddha for about tens of thousands of years, remaining in that samadhi, remaining in that state. And after some time, then the light of all the Buddhas radiates and then wakes the arhat from that state of meditation and then predicts, gives the message, predicts that arhat that one has to still attain the state of, one still has to become free, still has to liberate the subtle substantial obscurations within their mind. So therefore, one has to begin the path from the Mahayana. So then Arhat again begins from the very first starting on the Mahayana path by the practice of compassion, the practice of Bodhisattva Yana.

[49:54]

Now the practice of Bodhisattva Yana It begins by surrendering. The way we liberate our subtle, substantial concept is by surrendering them. It's by unfolding them. It's not by collecting them. So Bodhisattva takes the vow that until the samsara becomes end, I work for the benefit of all beings. which means one has to surrender. One just cannot keep one's private territory anymore ever since taking the bodhisattva vow. One has broken the friends and then one has welcomed everybody, which means the bodhisattva is like the public space. Now the private space is no more there.

[50:56]

So therefore, the Bodhisattva keeps on unfolding. So, therefore, the moment you surrender, the entire subtle grasping of the insubstantial experience starts to liberate the state. And that you might understand what is really that, how does that really liberate when you have the experience, when you really experience the Dzogchen mind. the present state, you come to understand that the meditation produced through mental analysis, the meditation made effort, or fabricated, is the very source of the territory, which gives the experience of setback, which gives the experience of unbalance. There is no likeness. There's no freeness.

[51:59]

There's something yet there, something which is causing you. It's almost like you're squeezed in between two things, and you feel that. If you move your arms around on the right hand, you feel something is there, and if you move your arm on the left hand, you feel something is there. there is yet substantial emotion, yet there is substantial phenomena, experiences, because one has still not been able to liberate those experiences. So therefore, the bodhisattva path is the way how one starts by the practice of six paramitas, how one generates this, so one keeps on unfolding from that step onwards. goes deeper and deeper into that. One does it by all different methods. One does it with the relative bodhisattva mind and one does it with the absolute bodhisattva mind. The relative bodhisattva mind, in order to develop

[53:03]

to have a greater experience of the stage of the Absolute Bodhisattva Mind when developed by the Relative Bodhisattva Mind. And on Relative Bodhisattva Mind and the Absolute, uniting, integrating those two, one comes to understand the present state of the recording. But those are all done not with some kind of collection, And it's a stage that the person is not on the stage of the great perfection at this stage, one who is just entering the great path. One is beginning to unfold and there seems to be an effort. There seems to be an effort that you are unfolding it. There is an effort that you are liberating it. And even for the beginner suction practitioner, there is an effort that you are liberating it. There is the effort that you are recognizing, like the mother and the child recognize each other, or the friend recognize each other.

[54:13]

There is the first effort. That's the first step. And after some time, the experience, the development, the realization of the state is far more deeper where it is like the liberation of the twist of the snake. The snake does not need the help of anybody to open a twist. It makes its twist and the twist is released by itself. So that is very important why those three yanas are shown and how one reaches that state by unfolding. And it's almost when you really come to have a glimpse of experience of your Rigpa, you find yourself so clear But at the same time, again we get caught into the experience of the karmic realm, into this existence, because instantly we grasp all of that.

[55:17]

So it's become almost like one is totally, absolutely sucked into that energy, and the energy around is so strong that you don't see your presence, you just find yourself in some sort of energy. And that is the realm, the state of the samsaric realm, what one is going through. So it's almost like one is struggling and struggling to break that and not knowing that the innate nature is open and it's empty and it's free by nature. We started to build that energy into some kind of solidifying state, freezes then. So the presence is never experienced. It's become very hard. So even when a person, as I explained this morning, the Dzogchen teaching is the peak of the entire Jnanas, the nine Jnanas.

[56:28]

and it is all supported by those nine yanas. The nine yanas is naturally included within the Dzogchen teaching. But at the same time, the presence of the Dzogchen mind, the great perfection mind, is so, when you come to the deepest state, is so light that there is no such pride or there is no such effort to be made as meditation also. Because if one tries to make a meditation, it becomes fabricated at this stage. And that is to say that, you know, when you really go through the true experience of that great perfection, it's not something one is saying that the nature of their mind is empty, and my Lama says it's empty, and it must be empty. So when you face one of those, some kind of struggle, some kind of experience, some kind of passion, then you say, oh, it must be empty.

[57:33]

So... Well, I've done meditation, so it will be taken care of by the empty. It doesn't liberate, it stays empty. Because it's just, as His Holiness said, it's more lip service towards the empty. It's not a real transcendence of that character, of that thought. So one has to really, very important, one of the most important instruction within the state is, you know, at this stage, perhaps when you hear this word called relax, one doesn't know that also completely. Because when you hear the word called relax, there's not much word, first of all, for us to understand. The words are limited. And when the word is called relax, we try to think, okay, now this is how we relax.

[58:35]

And now you be very free and open. Okay, I'm free. It's coming up later. And then there is, you know, and the presence, presence does not mean a solidified state. Presence is like the nature of the, any thought is the presence. That is the wisdom. That is the, by nature it's empty, by nature it's liberated. And one tends to have a sense, here is my presence now. Very uptight. And let me see who is coming from any other side. Oh, there is some kind of anger coming on. Okay. So you, inside, there is an effort. You see? There is an effort that when it's not, it's not open. So therefore, and this very effort, that fabrication, builds the tension.

[59:39]

So then again, it is like, you know, it's become, it's become, it's become. But that is what, that is how one will experience, you know. One would not experience the presence straight away, but that is how it will come. And you have to understand what the relax means. It's absolutely like, you know, it's like, how does the stainless sky relax? Tell me that. How open it is. It's something that can trust itself, that relaxed trust itself. Does our relaxed trust itself? Huh? You see? So it's not, you know, one has to understand what the relaxed means. And it's something, a deep experience within oneself, which can absolutely trust itself, like the ocean trusts itself. Sky trusts itself. The ocean can have many different kinds of waves. No matter how those waves happen, the ocean knows those waves as its expression.

[60:46]

The ocean is absolutely calm and clear. It absolutely has not a single fear of those waves. Same thing, however, once a person reaches the state of the presence, no matter how the mind manifests, whether into any kinds of expression, the mind is naturally liberated at that stage. There's the absolute, the Buddha state of nature. The nature of the Buddha state is absolutely open and relaxed. There's a word called relax. There's a tremendous openness and clarity. Just itself, clear. No obscuration, no fear, no such effort at that stage. So that is something how The example of the glass is used so important. It's a very important, that example of the glass is a very, very deep instruction. In a glass of water, there's a sand. If you shake the sand, then it will be very murky.

[61:49]

The water would not be clear. And if you do not shake the glass, then the sand will go down and the water will be clear. And that is a very deep, deep, deep message and a deep experience to be able to reach. But many times we will take the teaching, many times when we contact with the teaching according to the way the perception of the habit can connect. So if the person has a very gross habit, one will connect the teaching from the gross level, from the external consciousness, what I used to say, the external consciousness. And if one has a very light thing, then one understands much lighter, clearer. And if one has extremely light, very light, then it becomes instant realization, like the King Indrabodhi.

[62:51]

Buddha showed him King Indrabuddhi was the very first being who introduced, who invoked the Buddha to teach, to turn the wheel of the Vajrayana teaching. And he was a very great king. And one day he saw all the Buddhas and his disciples in the sky flying over. And so he asked his minister, what are those yellow birds? Because they were having yellow ropes in these days. He said, what are those yellow birds? And he said, the minister told him, that is not yellow birds, that is Buddha and his disciples. And then he thought, that's very interesting, I would like to meet him. And then he asked, how should I invite him? And at that time, during Buddha's time, Those who attain the state of miraculous power, during their lunch time, during their lunch time, they have to pick a certain, the Hinayana, within the Hinayana person, one has to pick certain kinds of, there's a certain kind of ceremony each day before eating the meals.

[64:07]

So they have to pick some kind of stick, so showing that the person is out of, going for the meal. And those who have the miraculous power, they can go through their miraculous powers. And those who do not have the miraculous power, they remain in their town and they have the food there. So those of their miraculous power, those of the miraculous power of flying and whatever, there are many different states. So that was the day it happened to be passing by. And then King Indragodhi, When Buddha met King Indabodhi, he asked him, please give me a teaching to get enlightened. And then Buddha told him, well, you have to become a monk, and then you have to renounce that life, and then you will get enlightened. And he said, no, I don't need that. For me, the world is so pleasurable. And even I'm born as a Jacob in my next life, I'm not gonna give up this lifestyle. I don't need the enlightenment. And that was the, you know, sometimes the,

[65:11]

sometimes the interdependent, the very being element to invoke a new teaching begins in a style like that. So then, at that stage, Buddha immediately saw the king in the temple. It was a very light energy. And then he opened the mandala of Arjuna and gave him a new session. Right instead, he got him a lot at the same stage. And that is called the extremely light element where the mind, all the gross substantial element is absolutely not there. The element is so light that it just needs one initiation or one teaching and one introduction and there one finds one state. and the minds get liberated at that stage. So that is an extremely superior thing and perhaps most of us are not at that stage, I think maybe we are medugor and in medugor there is superior medugor, medugor, medugor.

[66:16]

In the superior state there is superior, superior, superior medugor and superior inferior. And in the inferior state there is inferior-inferior, inferior-mediocre, and inferior-superior. So that is also in a basic general level, but I guess that could be also infinite. I don't think so there would be a set-up state. There are infinite stages like that. Everyone has a different state of mind, grows up somewhere in the middle of all kinds of things. No one can just say, you are that way. So therefore, one of the reasons Buddha said, do not judge, you know, unless one is completely realized, do not judge like that. So that does not work. Anyway, so to understand, understand that presence, so Bodhisattva Yana is so important that one keeps on unfolding, one really sees, one has to see so clearly one's enlightenment, then it becomes very easy.

[67:24]

Because you understand your realm, you understand its effect, you understand integration, And to gain this state of realization, it's not far away. And because it's not far away, those who have done a very good practice, for instance, in the land of Tibet, where there have been so many great teachers and so many people who are able to practice, So many people here got their realization. Many lamas got realization. There's been thousands of lamas those who gave rainbow body and then there are many those who have not, even do not gain a rainbow body but on their realization. So it has been something which has, by understanding those points, one responds for origination. One responds for the origination of the enlightened state. And therefore, one seizes the suffering of this. And that is something is not that some people can do and one cannot do. It is up to us. Whether we do it or not is simply, that's the main thing.

[68:28]

And anyway, we're going to spend this time anyway. One has to see that if one spends the time in a wasted way, then one may go through a long time of suffering. During that long time, when a person goes through a suffering, the suffering, even though suffering itself is insubstantial by nature, the suffering does not have a very substantial effect. nature, in fact, because it's like a suffering of a dream state. The suffering of a dream state is simply insubstantial in a way, but insubstantial appears like a substantial, and that is what one has to take care, because during that time, if a person goes through that time, then it's like a big hallucination experience one goes through. And so therefore those development practices are so important in our lives and we have to go gradually and to use this every moment opportunity so that we can really be in our presence and then we can

[69:37]

liberate the entire contact with the six senses. Now contact with the six senses, as I said yesterday, there are various ways of doing meditation. Now in meditation there is the Hinayana Kriya, there is the Mahayana Kriya, and there is the Vajrayana Kriya. Now the Hinayana way, there's no need to mention. In Mahayana, there's meditation I call the transformation meditation, the shifting meditation. It's almost like they sit and they let go out, like in the The second teaching of Buddha, Paschal Paramita, it was the teaching which Buddha emphasized on the nature of emptiness. The nature of emptiness was specifically emphasized during the second teaching by which from the lowest realm to the top realm, the nature of the entire universe, the entire state is emptiness by nature.

[70:49]

So the entire condition, the nature of condition, is unconditioned by nature. So therefore, so how a person practices that, how a person gets to that stage is by practicing on emptiness. One just, one dissolves that stage and one lets go of things out. For instance, if you are doing meditation, then a thought starts to arise and you just push it out of your mind. So you let it go. There is effort. It's trying to transform yourself. So you try to let it go. And there's an effort. And it's still an effort. And from that point, it's not considered the most ultimate teaching of Buddha. It is an ultimate. It is one of the closest to ultimate, but it's not ultimate because there's an effort to let go. Now Dzogchen teaching, the way the present is introduced It's not a teaching of letting go meditation. It's a letting be meditation, as it is.

[71:52]

And by letting be, the self-liberation blessing is obtained. That is the big difference between those two styles. One is letting go and one is letting be. And that is a very, very, very big difference. One cannot see the qualities of the wisdom by letting go. One can see the qualities of the wisdom by letting be. But now this is a very point that one can also misunderstand. Okay, letting be. This is where many people get confused. Okay, let's go and just do our usual stuff. Of course, the state of the time always manifests. What I mean is we always present them ourselves all the time. But then what happens is we may completely get caught up into the ordinary state again. If we just haven't misunderstood this letting be, then we think, oh, then let me, you know, just do my usual stuff exactly the way we are confused before we might start feeding that confusion again.

[72:58]

And that is not really the point of what this letting be means. The letting be presence is within every thought, within every arising state, the arising state itself is the expression of the rigpa is the expression of that presence so when a person finds oneself within that presence the entire manifestation the display of that presence which is the expression of all different thoughts Whether it's the expression of samsara or whether it's the expression of nirvana, they equally want taste in the presence. There is no particular choice that there is samsara and it's better, I'm going to go there, this is nirvana, I'm going to go there, or there is samsara, I'm not going to go there. There is no choice at this stage because presence... has liberated the entire state, and it absolutely can trust itself, like the sky trusts itself. The sky never says that there is a black cloud and I don't like, and there is a beautiful rainbow and I love. But the sky is not distracted.

[74:00]

The sky is not seduced by neither of them. And that is how we have to find the presence quality, but the presence of nature. So... So from the point of the last four days of the teaching, I've introduced from the Padme Rinpoche's three phases teaching, which is the view, meditation and action. emphasizing the view of meditation in action and this is the teaching of Garabdhoji which Garabdhoji before passing into Parinirvana he gave it from the space to Jamdokshin and then later it was passed on and this is one of the main, main, main practices within the Nyingma school and the nature of this action and That is how it is understood.

[75:10]

That is something one has to keep it, one has to practice it, one has to realize that state. It should not be an understanding. It should not be left away. The teaching should not be on the papers or whatever. The teaching should be practiced in our practical experience and through an experience. Then one knows how that presence, how the presence liberates the expression. That is the point. How the presence, and that is where one finds the liberation from samsara through the entire birth of the existence. of the experience what we go through. This existence of the day life and the existence of the night life are equally same because night experience is one's own projection which is the display of the night. And the day is also the same experience and one is caught into that, into a very serious stage, as we do not see things as light. When one does not find the humor at all, when one does not see the presence at all.

[76:13]

So therefore, it is one of the most quick instructions within the instruction teaching, the Three Faces of Padme Rinpoche. And then from tomorrow, I'm going to begin the mountain retreat teaching of His Holiness Pujo Rinpoche. And so that is the essential point of this teaching. And now those, if you have any questions, we can do it here. And then we will go through meditation session afterwards. Because now it's important to integrate that into meditation. If you do not integrate that, then there is no end. So any questions? Was the essence always... And will it be always? The essence is always present there. The presence of the essence is always there. Was it always? Yes, was it always? Yes, always. Always there. And will it be always?

[77:14]

Yes, it is always there. When you see that, it's just there. Yes. And the presence, when a person recognizes the presence, then the experience, the trap of the experience, the distraction of the experience is liberated. It was always there. It's always there. Yes, definitely always there. No question of that. I don't know, it won't be there. How? Not possible. Yes. Like the ocean is always there, and the waves are its expression. Would you explain a little bit more about the dhyana as we go? The nine yānas are the... first is the three yānas included in the yāna.

[78:19]

There is the sarvaka and pateka buddha. Last night, this is a question from last night. Last night when you did the special fire puja and the classification, that was quite marvelous. And is that something, you know, I, and I'm sure the other people there would very much like to be able to do that for myself and for other people. Is that something that you can give to us and we can do or not yet?

[79:28]

Sure you can do, definitely. If you wanted to do, I would give. Yes, I will give it. Yes. I have to translate that and I will do the translation soon. And I can give the transmission today. I can give the transmission in the morning fire practice, and I can give the transmission in the evening fire practice. The morning fire practice is actually called sun practice. Sun means clear. Clear is practice. Clear the observation of the mind. Once it's clear, then the energy, the wisdom manifests. And the evening one is very beneficial, actually. As you said, one can immediately feel this energy. And so it will be good. So later I will give the transmission to you. Okay. Clarification on effort. You're saying that effort is required if we're trying to liberate experiences with other ways of meditation.

[80:37]

Yes. All that we need to do is experience the present or the presence. By being with the presence, the experience is automatically the group. So all I have to do is discover or be with the presence. And then the liberation takes place by itself. Until we completely get to the state of the presence, the effort is needed, because otherwise one will be seduced. That's the point. One will get seduced instantly. One gets distracted. So there is a presence, so you keep your presence so that you do not get seduced towards that expression. But once, after a great deal of practice, then the expression started to liberate in those three different ways. as the three different styles. And then you don't have to hold anything. Your state itself, then the sun does not have to make any effort to be sun.

[81:42]

The sun is sun. Then it's like there is not even one fight within that state that, oh, I'm greater than any being. There is absolutely not even the substantial thought at all at that stage. not even substantial thought, you know, relatively, let's put it, not even substantial thought that I have attained such a state. Just clear and just there. Yes. And by that one can see that to reach the effortless state, yes. So there is effort, but the effort is like you mentioned yesterday, like we're not going after the bones. Yes, yes, yes. Just for the time being, one needs some effort. The effort just for the time being, it is like an effort, but later the effort also will be liberated. That's a very important point.

[82:43]

At the moment one needs the effort, later the effort will be liberated. If we do not have the effort at this stage, then the minds, as we find ourselves, we're instantly being seduced by all the expression, all the experience. Can you suggest some skillful means for recovering our attention? When it starts going off on a chain of things. Yes. Basically, It's very important to understand from that point to see the nature of the samsara, which is suffering very clearly, to know how the samsara is, and to also practice on impermanence. And those give us some kind of support that person really understand that there is not much one can, when one has this precious human body, one just cannot raise like that. So when one really feels that, then they give a tremendous strength towards the stage.

[83:47]

That is one way of doing it. And the other way is, I guess, when you make a continuity practice, as I said, this morning. You just make it. And every morning, sometimes you will have good experience, and sometimes you won't have good experience. But if you say, oh, good experience, good, I will do. And the bad experience, bad, I won't do. Then simply you're being caught by your own experience. Your presence is not there. The yogi should be there. Whether it's good or whether it's not good, you have to liberate the whole state. And then you really find the presence, clarity of that rikha mind. But until that, you know, here, Padme Rinpoche explained here, He says, you know, there are certain kind of meditators. When there's a good experience, then they want to see. And when there's bad kinds of fearful, scary experience, then they don't want to have that.

[84:50]

And that is not the correct view. That's not the perfect view. One loses the presence. One is seduced into experience at this stage. So one has to liberate their postage. So then if you make a regular, you know, every day, that time, you know, like, let's say, one has to find one's own schedule of working, and then every morning or every evening, whatever time, During that time, no matter what important is happening in the world, you know, almost even the Russians are going to pull a trigger and throw all the nuclear missiles, you go to your ceiling. Whatever is going to happen, you're unaffected at this stage. And that will give... I found myself that, you know, all the great teachers, as they say, the continuity gives the birth of wisdom by itself. Mostly just shorten the leash of that dog. Yes.

[85:51]

And sometimes you can say strong P. It's important to cut through. It will completely liberate the development of subtle consciousness, the development of subtle habit experience. It will completely liberate the strong P. Say more about P. What is the energy of pa? Pa is the male energy and ta is the female energy. Like when you see the bell and vajra. Bell is the emptiness. The bell symbolizes the nature of emptiness. And the emptiness nature is not simply an empty, it is a clarity experience. So the vajra is the male energy and the bell is the female energy. The female energy is the emptiness and the male energy is the clarity. And you can separate those two. They are unit fundamentally. Like the example is, like you see your face in the mirror or in the river, a reflection of oneself. If you say that you are not there, you are there.

[86:54]

If you go to catch, you can't catch. So that is so fundamentally one state. One cannot separate those two states. So the nature of the mind has expression. The presence has expression. that anything can arise. But the thing is that once we started to get caught, seduced to the experience, that is where one starts to build up all the habitual habit then. So therefore, seeing a strong pain, it clears. And then one's absolutely fine. Everything is a food later on. None of them affects. One finds oneself absolutely relaxed and absolutely free, absolutely liberated into no matter what that state of mind could arise in this day and age. Does pink move energy through? Oh, yes. The pink completely cuts that concept. If you have a very difficult concept, which keeps on bothering you for many times, you say it. If it keeps on coming into your meditation, say it one time, two times, three times, then it will cut it, definitely.

[87:58]

And it keeps on coming. Now, right after seeing Pei, the way to look right after seeing Pei is absolutely relax and see the nakedness of their awareness. But right after seeing Pei, you say, now where it has gone. You're inviting it. So that is important. Right after. Pache, up to this point, the way when I've been meditating, if I find myself on a train of thought, I just drop it and then be aware of where I am. Now, is that pushing away thought? Say that again. Okay. If I find myself on a train of thought, when I realize I'm doing that, then I stop the thinking and I be aware of where I am. Right. is that pushing away or is that a message to be aware? Sometimes, sometimes it's also good to those who have, sometimes those who have not done much meditation, it could be also good that you

[89:04]

It is very important for the mind to have the experience of some kind of balance also. Balance from the point where the mind can rest, where the mind can come to trust and see itself. So from that point you put a flower. That is very important, it's very great to go around. Put a flower and then just rest your mind on that. Those who have not done much meditation before, so begin something like that. Then once you develop, But then when it's time, then I will also tell, then I will tell it to go to the next stage. That is also possible to do meditation. Or if you can see the present, then it's great. But if you can't, you find yourself almost like no matter what, the present becomes very hard, and then the conditions are overruling you, overwhelming you, then try to, you know, first make your state of mind like that. And then once you get it, then you can integrate that. So then if I'm concentrating on the flower and then my mind starts drifting, just drop it?

[90:13]

Then bring it back. Thank you. Earlier you commented that if you're having trouble practicing that you could meditate on a bindu. What does that mean? Sure, there are certain kinds of bindu, certain kinds of lights you visualize in your heart or you visualize in your forehead. And then your mind is, it brings the restfulness to the mind. When you see like a window in your heart, you know, if your mind is absolutely wild sometimes, what you should do is you should visualize almost like a thumb-sized white piglet. into your heart, and then it's going out of your head, going out of your head, and spreading all over the place, the light, and then they're coming back and dissolving into your head, and then getting into your heart. That will settle the mind, when the mind becomes very stable.

[91:14]

So like that, or you can Or you can meditate on the flower or any of those states. You talked about the presence and continuing that into the dream state as well as the waking state. Is there a specific practice that you could use to help us facilitate the presence in the dream state? I think first we keep working with the living state. If the living state, during the daytime, if we can keep the presence, night will automatically come. Night automatically comes. You see it very clearly. So it will automatically come, yes. If the light is there, light rays will naturally come. There's a Tibetan saying, if the gold is underneath the ground, the light will show up on the earth. That I haven't seen, I'd like to know.

[92:15]

But it sounds something interesting. But anyway, if there's a sun, there will be light. It doesn't have any categories. So if the day experience becomes clear, then the night experience becomes very clear. If you think all the day, if you start hating somebody at night, that karma project, that experience project, and you live within that realm of the experience. You see, that is how samsara is. We're just going through that experience, what one is cultivating. Yes? Yes, sir. important and necessary to travel through the known realms? Depends on individual. Depends on individual. As I explained, sometimes those who have not done much meditation before, then perhaps it is important to go like that. But it's important that a teacher really guides, the teacher guides the student how it's happening.

[93:19]

So in that way when the teacher shows the clear and the student really developed that compassion and openness, then you can go very quick. It depends on the devotion and compassion and diligence. At the beginning, those who are just starting meditation, start with 15 minutes. Or sometimes you can have like 15 minutes, and then go to 20 minutes, then go to half an hour, and I guess one can do like one hour, those who really have the time to do one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening.

[94:14]

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