This podcast is offered by the San Francisco Zen Center on the web at www.sfcc.org. Our public programs are made possible by donations from people like you. So, good morning, everyone. And welcome to City Center, San Francisco Zen Center's Beginner's Mind Temple. My name is Kyoshin Wendy Lewis. I'm a resident priest here. And today I will be talking about the Lotus Sutra. And this sutra presents itself as the one vehicle, the last or ultimate teaching of the Buddha. And it's also the most popular and well-known sutra. There's sects of Buddhism that are based on the Lotus Sutra. The Lotus Sutra mentions meditation and the Four Noble Truths as the path of the Shravaka, or the disciple, who is enlightened by hearing the teachings.

[01:12]

And the 12-fold chain, another Buddhist doctrine, is the path of the Prachika Buddha, and this is the self-enlightened or ascetic practitioner. And then the six perfections, or paramitas, which I'll mention, tell you what they are later, is the path of the bodhisattva. And that's the future Buddha and the enlightening being. That's how they're described. But then, it sets all those aside and emphasizes skillful means, predictions of future Buddhahood, and the justification of the Lotus Sutra itself as a means of enlightenment through copying it and reciting it and revering it. So it's an interesting sutra. It kind of includes some teachings, but it also then says, but never mind, in a certain way. So it's always, yeah. So an additional emphasis is on the Buddha as a deity.

[02:17]

All of a sudden the Buddha becomes a god who lives eternally. And he's up in some heavens with some other Buddhas. And this is a significant shift from the early teachings of the Buddha's path as being very human and based on suffering and the resolution of suffering. So those early teachings, it describes as skillful means. and that they're not the true intention of the Buddha. The true intention is the teaching of the Lotus Sutra. So this is what the Lotus Sutra is proposing. So I think when we're reading or studying or hearing about teachings like the Lotus Sutra, that is a faith teaching, it's kind of useful to keep in mind the sort of vulnerability that that's addressing.

[03:18]

and power issues that it's addressing. So it might be, it might seem that looking at doctrines like this from a critical perspective is a criticism somehow negating them or saying that something's wrong with them. But that's not necessarily the case. And there's a a book that was published fairly recently called Thinking Fast and Slow, by a man named Daniel Kahneman. And he described several studies that he and other people have done about how our thinking and decision making works. And it turns out, which might not surprise us so much, that most of our decisions are based on what he calls fast thinking, that relies on things we already know, and we already assume, and the beliefs that we hold both consciously and unconsciously. So this is what I believe Suzuki Roshi is referring to when he talks about expert's mind, the mind that already knows and is making decisions and looking at teachings and practice from this place of already knowing.

[04:35]

So on the one hand, it's limited, and it limits our perceptions, our path of cultivation, and our openness to transformation, but it's also really necessary. We couldn't get through our day without this fast kind of thinking. So, slow thinking requires effort. And Kahneman describes it as essentially lazy. Most of us avoid it if we can, most of the time. And this isn't a criticism. This is actually a sort of a physical functioning of the body and the mind, which I don't think, most of us don't really think they're separate, but they seem to be. But soul thinking uses glucose, so you can actually feel a little tired from making that kind of effort. And it's often accompanied by a frowning expression they would find when they would

[05:37]

push these questions that they were asking people, they would frown. And this encouraged this slower thinking. So there's this odd sort of physical combination of things happening. It also includes the pupil dilation and your heart rate increases. And its primary function, and I think partly the the side effects might be about this, is to evaluate situations that are new, or new information. And the determination is, is this safe or not? Is it true or not? And is it useful or not? Those kinds of questions that slow thinking is trying to determine. And I think this is what Suzuki is referring to when he talks about beginner's mind. You know, to consider... to evaluate, to kind of stop and think about, you know, what is there beyond what we already know or think we know.

[06:43]

So neither of these types of thinking can be avoided or preferred. They're both active basically all the time, except that we don't really tend to go to system two thinking unless we have to. But I think, to some extent, the Lotus Sutra prefers to go with the fast thinking and to provide justifications for that. Like, oh, well, you know, the Lotus Sutra says this, therefore, anyone who doesn't believe it is wrong. Not other people who don't believe it are interesting. They're wrong. So... It kind of reinforces our self-view and kind of the safety, really, of holding on to things as we wish them to be, and also wishing to have, or believing we have, special intuitive powers, which I think a lot of people believe that.

[07:51]

Maybe all of us do, to some extent. Like, oh, I knew that already. that sort of thing, or I know what that person is going to do, or things like that. Well, when we're sort of doing a little bit of deconstruction in this way, it can seem uncomfortable, maybe, maybe not. But in one of my theology classes, we were applying, I've talked about this before, but it's relevant, we were applying the historical critical to passages from the Old and the New Testament. And what this method examines is when and where a text was written, how often do we ask that, the form in which it is written, who wrote it, and why. What were they addressing? What were they trying to refute?

[08:52]

What were they trying to explain? And so one of the students in the class got really nervous, and he said to the professor, you know, my father is worried that this kind of critical view of the Bible is going to undermine my faith. And the professor, who had been a Catholic priest for over 50 years, said, most people find it strengthens their faith. And he just went on. And so I think it's really important, you know, when this kind of slower thinking is activated, there's something deeper that happens. And that's what I think this is referring to. So this means that criticism can have a creative effect. And I think, for instance, it can empower criticism

[09:53]

believers, you know, in spiritual or cultural, personal, intellectual assumptions to examine them more closely. And I think this can diminish kind of dogmatism and certainty and deepen the intentional or applied aspect of these beliefs. So this belief in the bodhisattva way. Well, it can be deepened by questioning it, and the intention of it can be more clearer, that sort of thing. In the introduction to his translation of the Lotus Sutra, Gene Reeves describes the lotus in Mahayana Buddhism, where it symbolizes the bodhisattva as one who is firmly rooted in the mud of the earth and flowering towards the sky. It is a symbol of working in the world to help others to awaken while finding inspiration in a sense of the cosmos.

[11:00]

So, you know, this can be very inspiring and affirming and it's rather beautiful imagery, besides. And it can also be interpreted as viewing this world as kind of muddy and lowly, you know, a place in the sky is pure and exalted and free. And what the lotus is trying, the symbol of the lotus is doing, it's trying to address or define the non-duality of these two, what do you call it, extremes, I'll call them. So it's the non-duality of the relative, the ordinary, and the muddy reality, and the absolute, extraordinary, or cosmic reality. And the inclination is to prefer the latter, the wonderfulness. I don't mean that there's anything wrong with that, but the sort of freedom and sort of go there in preference.

[12:08]

And that's the inclination of the Lotus Sutra. Buddha is a god, and what we actually want is to become Buddhas and be up in the heavens with all the other Buddhas. I mean, that's what it's sort of saying. But what Reeves doesn't mention is the function of the stem. So there's the roots and there's the flower. And what's happening in between? I don't hear people talking about that part of it. Well, the Lotus Sutra, just to be practical, was compiled over approximately 300 years. That's a pretty long time. The original version dates from about 100 to 50 years BCE, which is a few hundred years after the death of the Buddha. And then there were some additions around 100 CE, and then more additions between 150 and 220 CE.

[13:13]

So the... the sutra is commenting on itself and adding pieces, and they're being sort of randomly tucked in. And if anyone has studied theology, there's a similar thing that happens in the texts of the Old and New Testament. So the earliest manuscripts of this sutra in Sanskrit are found in China, were found in China, and they date from the 6th and 8th centuries, and they're not consistent with versions from other areas. So it has a very kind of non-absolute history, which is encouraging, and it's also like, well, how am I supposed to know who wrote this? How am I supposed to relate to this sutra that has this 300-year writing, and then there's no early versions of it?

[14:14]

The earliest, or the overview of the sutra is Indian traditions, and these include the fourfold assembly of monks, nuns, laymen, and laywomen, the concept of rebirth through innumerable lives and conditions until one reaches liberation, the six realms of existence in the cycle of rebirth, and karma, as the foundation for these states of rebirth and for Buddhist cultivation over several lifetimes. And Gene Raves describes the format of the sutra. The first part elucidates a unifying truth of the universe, although you're not absolutely sure what it is. The second part sheds light on the everlasting personal life of the Buddha. And the third part emphasizes the actual activities of human beings. So this is... So Reeves encourages reading the Lotus Sutra as a religious inspirational text, and that includes accepting its self-justification.

[15:26]

So as you're reading it, to just keep going. Just read it, understand what it's trying to do. And I'll talk a little bit more about that later. The central section of the begins with a great assembly of monks and nuns, arhats and bodhisattvas, gods, mythical beings, and ordinary human beings gathered to hear the preaching of the Buddha. And the Buddha Dharma is described as being available to everyone. The second chapter, Skillful Means, describes the bodhisattva vehicle. And this is the way the Buddha used to enable living beings to give up their attachments. And Shariputra, one of the famous arhats, asked three times for the Buddha to explain this.

[16:29]

You know, what is this bodhisattva vehicle? And when the Buddha finally agrees to explain, a group of monks, nuns, laymen and laywomen, get up and leave. And the Buddha says that they're arrogant. And he says that the assembly no longer has useless branches and leaves, but only firm good fruit. So here he's preaching to everyone, but these people who leave are useless branches and leaves. So the sutra is kind of contradicting itself. about that universality, but the implication is that this group is not ready to hear the Dharma that is difficult to understand. So that's why he calls them arrogant. They're just, they're not ready.

[17:30]

In chapter three, the Buddha tells the parable of the burning house, and this parable is pretty famous. Maybe particularly in this school, but I've heard people talk about it many times. And in this story, so before this parable is told, the Buddha describes the Bodhisattva path as superior to that of the Shravaka, the disciple, and the Prachekha Buddha, the ascetic, self-enlightened one. So now the Bodhisattva path is the right one. So in the parable, a great elder owns this building, and he's the landlord, and the building is old and decaying, its walls are crumbling, its pillars are rotting at the base, its beams and rafters falling down and dangerous.

[18:35]

So pretty fire hazard, right? In this building live humans and demons and animals as well as the owner and his family. So when this fire breaks out, the eldest children are inside. And he calls them, you know, get out, get out. And there's only one entrance or exit to the building. But they continue to play and they just ignore him. So he's wondering, well, how am I going to get them out? And it's interesting because he only cares about getting his own children out. Never mind the rest of the people or the demons or the animals or anything. So the sutra is just very interesting that way. Well, what it turns out is that this house symbolizes, and its inhabitants symbolize human beings that are caught in the world of suffering, and they're ignorant of a way out.

[19:37]

And at the same time, they're enjoying their toys and their play so much that they don't even realize that the house is burning. They didn't even think about trying to escape. They did not understand what he meant by the fire or the house or losing their lives. So the elder decides that the way he's going to get them out is to... use skillful means. So he tells them that there are these beautiful carriages outside and if they come out, he will give them to him, them. So they come out and they say, where are they? We want to play, you know. So he gives them to them and these carriages are pulled by white oxen and they're splendidly decorated on the outside and luxurious on the inside with pillows and everything's silk and satin and everything. And each also had many servants and followers to guard and take care of the children.

[20:40]

So then the Buddha, after he's told this parable, asked the assembly if he's been guilty of lying and, you know, using this ploy to get them out of the house and offering them rare treasures, not just, you know, Something fun. And the assembly replies that no, because the elder from the beginning had intended to use some skillful means. And then the Buddha replies that the Tathagata is also like this, for he is a father to the whole world. He was born into this world to save living beings. So now the Buddha's kind of getting raised into this deity level. And then he says, if all these children will just make up their minds to do it, they can acquire the three kinds of knowledge and the six divine powers. Now wouldn't we like these?

[21:46]

The ability to remember one's past lives, the ability to read minds, and being free from thoughts based in desire, those that cause suffering or stress. Those are the three kinds of knowledge. And the six divine powers, are somewhat repetitive, but they add a few little talents. The ability to walk on water and to walk through walls, clairaudience, hearing what is not audible, telepathy, and recalling one's past lives, also knowing others' karmic destinations, and then again, the freedom from anxiety based in desire, aversion, and confusion. So then the text shifts into justification of the Lotus Sutra and describes the fate of those who don't have faith in it. And this juxtaposition of these promises and these threats, Donald Lopez comments on this.

[22:56]

He says, the Lotus Sutra's dominant mood is less one of triumph than one of anxiety. And I think that's also very interesting as you're reading it, this kind of promises and threats and promises and threats. And what is the Lotus Sutra trying to do? What is it trying to establish? What is it trying to teach? And Lopez says, well, you know, there is a single historical worry that the Lotus Sutra must address. If the Mahayana is the superior teaching, why had it not been evident earlier? The constant declarations that the sutra had been taught in the distant past by previous Buddhas are meant to address this question. And there is another worry. If the Mahayana is the Buddha's true teaching, why has it not been embraced by all? It's to answer this qualm that several of the parables are directed. And I'm sorry I don't have time to tell you some of those other parables, they're fun.

[24:01]

but when you're reading them to consider that they're trying to answer this anxiety and explain it and reframe it to make it clear. So the sutra then mentions the kinds of people who will benefit from hearing it. Those who are clever understanding and wise, free from anger, upright and gentle, sympathetic toward everyone, and who accept the Great Vehicle Sutra while never accepting a single verse of any other sutra. The Buddha says, even you, Shariputra, could enter this sutra only through faith. Those unable to hear it are of shallow understanding, arrogant, lazy, and attach the idea of self into the five desires. Those without faith those who slander the sutra, will be robbed and plundered, face many misfortunes, be mad, deaf, and confused in mind, experience poverty, need, and other defects, and so on.

[25:16]

And so this is kind of jarring, this juxtaposition, you know, of those who can and cannot and should and should not be taught the sutra because it's the one vehicle to save all beings. And yet there's this familiarity. If a system or a tradition is trying to establish itself, it's going to need to provide these justifications, these promises, these hopes, and these punishments. And they're all fairly compelling, these promises and the fears. And how this is establishing the basis for a community. The inside people and the outside people. And that can strengthen a group. If you see, you know, who's included? What do they believe? How are they, you know, agreeing with me? You know, this can be a true foundation for a strong community.

[26:19]

So A significant component of that is some kind of faith or trust. So for a religious or spiritual community or a governmental community or any sort of community, there's this core of faith and trust. And then the effect is that the tradition can become only self-reflective. So it's always reinforcing itself. and retrenching itself, and it needs to develop the explanations and interpretations that maintain it. And yet at the same time, the Lotus Sutra sort of provides this cohesion and justification that's very inspiring. And I'll talk about that a little more. And it's inspiring socially and spiritually and politically. There are some of the groups that focus on the Lotus Sutra are very involved in peace and in improving society and taking care of the homeless and all that kind of thing.

[27:40]

So there's this deep inspiration that's also happening. There's also the irony that the teachings of the bodhisattva way that are intended to free us from this abiding sense of self end up being self, you know, kind of congratulatory. Like, oh, I'm a bodhisattva, or you're a bodhisattva, and aren't we great, you know? And self-righteousness. So they, and the promise of future Buddhahood that is included in there. But I think somewhere in the midst of all that, there's still... this kind of possibility of a form of spiritual humility. In Zen Mind Beginner's Mind, Suzuki says, you may think Buddha attained some stage where he was free from karmic life, but it is not so. Even after he attained enlightenment, he continued in the same effort we are making.

[28:44]

And this is my understanding of the fourth noble truth. It comes after cessation. But one continues in this human world. And so you're still required to continue to be attentive and to hold the precepts and so on. So suffering, origin of suffering, cessation, and no male-fold path. You're still here. Or there's a continuity of whether it's personal or spiritual. Yet the sutra claims, Buddhas have rare, immeasurable, and unlimited, inconceivably great power of divine faculties. Tied neither to their faults nor actions, the kings of the Dharma for the sake of the lowly patiently endure. I think that followers of spiritual and conventional leaders need some sort of approval and assurance and confirmation.

[30:01]

And leaders can be narcissistic or sort of forced into a kind of narcissism in order to keep their followers and help their followers and inspire them. And then that is accepted as authority. And the Buddha struggled with this, and among his last words are, the dharma and discipline taught by me and laid down for you are your teacher when I am gone. It is the nature of all formations to dissolve, attain perfection through diligence. So how do we reconcile the passing or the death of the Buddha, which he is acknowledging there, with the idea of the eternal Buddha or Buddhas. You know, logically, it wouldn't be necessary to have an eternal, you know, to have a Buddha, an eternal Buddha, and many, many of them, if there's already one who's eternal.

[31:07]

I mean, why would you need all these different Buddhas? Why would we need to be Buddhas if there's an eternal Buddha? And what is our job when we become a Buddha? Do we just live in heaven? And maybe that's something somebody wants, and I think that's all right. So one chapter is filled with these visionary lands and occurrences, including an illumination of them. as they have never been illumined before. And one of the great Brahma kings asks, is this because a great and virtuous god has been born, or is it because a Buddha has appeared in the world? And that's one of the underlying questions of the Lotus Sutra. So the earlier traditions imply that the path of Buddha was a very human one, as I said earlier, and then the later traditions go back to this imagery of gods and the symbolism of saving and guiding and taking care of human beings through rewards and punishments.

[32:13]

So some Japanese scholars call the sutra a form of snake oil. Nothing but words of praise, either for the Buddha or for itself. Or a big story in the sky, only a big, empty work of fantasy. And I think, you know, it's worth... keeping in mind both the faith view and the critical view of the Lotus Sutra, and of lots of teachings. It's enlivening, and it gives them, I think, vitality. So there's this benefit of the faith view, which supports the ideals of universal Buddhahood and bodhisattva activity, Buddha nature, and bodhisattva activity, And then this critical view that allows acknowledgement of the potential of exclusivity and the kind of limited nature of our self-defined ideas of bodhisattva-hood.

[33:20]

So having this sense of these ideals is very inspiring and kind of comforting in many ways. And yet... What is the side effect of that? How does that end up limiting us and having us not question these things? So the central chapters emphasize bodhisattva practice. So the ways of relating to the Lotus Sutra that offer assurance of supreme awakening are Anyone who hears even a single verse or a single phrase, which you've heard today, you've heard some of the quotes from him, and responds in joy for even a single moment, and any who receive and embrace, read, recite, explain, or copy even a single verse, or look upon it with reverence, or make offerings to it with flowers, incense, banners, robes, music,

[34:27]

as well as revering it with palms together, will become Buddhas in ages to come. And so this is significantly different from the early teachings that require deep asceticism, poverty, and solitude. So the Lotus Sutra is actually saying that, in one point it says, nirvana is a little resting place. It's not the accomplishment. it criticizes this asceticism and solitude and says that there's something that comes after nirvana. That's one of the parables. So Reeves comments, this sutra opens the gateway of skillful means and reveals the principle of the true nature of things. So this is inspiring, as I said, and it also begs the question of what are skillful means and who's deciding that?

[35:28]

That can sometimes be manipulated in ways that are not so beneficial. And spiritual teachings are available for all of us to interpret and teach however we want to in a certain way. And it's hard to tell which intention is clear and wise and trustworthy. One thing I experience, particularly as I do something like study the Lotus Sutra deeply, like read some commentaries and read it and work with it and everything, is that I kind of get taken apart and put back together again. It's this, the effort itself has this kind of way of questioning my own interpretations, my own limitations in understanding the Dharma or teaching it or studying it even. So I think it kind of reduces the sort of self-congratulatory way of relating to some of these suttas, because I'm a Buddhist, so I get it, or something like that.

[36:47]

But it also deepens something, because I've made that effort and struggled with it. and wondered about it and thought about how these teachings can be both inspiring and kind of not so great and excluding and that sort of thing. Well, Yoshiro Tamura, who was one of the commentators I read, calls chapter 13 the martyrdom chapter. And this is very important in the history of the Lotus Sutra. The assembly vows to teach, though many ignorant people will curse and abuse us or attack us with swords and sticks, we will endure it all. And it's not clear why they're going to be abused and will need to endure these things. But, you know, martyrdom is considered a heroic activity, so that's very common in spiritual history and traditions.

[37:52]

And it may be that the promulgators of the Lotus Sutra were experiencing this because they were trying to pull away from the tradition and create their own interpretation. And then chapter 15, this is another sort of famous chapter, begins with the bodhisattvas in the assembly offering to teach the sutra everywhere throughout this land. And then the Buddha says that's not necessary because there are already innumerable bodhisattvas in this world. And they emerge from under the ground on hearing the voice of Shakyamuni Buddha. And this cosmological chapter ends by asking, how have these innumerable bodhisattvas been taught, transformed, and led to have aspiration? And the answer is in the next chapter on the everlasting original Buddha.

[38:58]

Among the living there are those who prefer lesser teachings and are of little virtue and heavy with filth. For these people I teach about how as a young man I left home and attained supreme awakening. Now this is the story of the Buddhist life and without it the Lotus Sutra wouldn't be necessary. It wouldn't even exist. It's relying on that story and it's also denying it in a certain way or negating it. So spiritual traditions often write dogma back into history and then read it forward as though that is the truth. And I think that's partly what's happening here. And then this The sutra then teaches the four kinds and the five kinds of faith. And I realized, you know, I thought about this as I was going to give this dharma talk, that I am sort of giving a difficult dharma talk.

[40:11]

You know, I'm asking of you to sort of relate to a sutra that you may not have read, traditions that you may not know about, And seeing if there's a way for this to actually be taught in a very short Dharma talk, something about the Lotus Sutra. So if you're experiencing some frowning, it was partly an experiment of mine to see if this was possible. Because it's a long sutra, it's complicated, and it's about the things we care most about in a certain way in Soto Zen. bodhisattva-hood, Buddha nature, and those kinds of things. Well, the four forms of faith are about maintaining focus on the Lotus Sutra. And then the five kinds of faith are about rejoicing in it, reading and reciting it, preaching it, and practicing the six perfections.

[41:18]

And those are generosity, morality, patience, effort, concentration, and wisdom. And the response of joy at hearing even a single verse of the Lotus Sutra is incomparably more valuable than attaining the fruits of our hardship, according to the sutra. And those who experience this joy will be reborn in wealth and they'll ascend to heaven. They won't have bad breath. They'll not be diseased. And so the implication is that if you're materialistically wealthy and successful and have good health, you must be a person of faith. So this is similar in other traditions as well. So then there's another famous chapter about the Bodhisattva monk never disrespectful or never despising.

[42:24]

And it's kind of important. So it says he did not need to read or recite sutras, but simply went around bowing to people, including the four groups, monks, nuns, laymen, and laywomen, saying, I would never dare to disrespect you because surely you are all to become Buddhas. there were those among the four groups who found this really irritating and arrogant. I mean, who was he to make assurances of Buddhahood? And so he goes for many years doing this and he gets attacked. People hit him with sticks and they throw stones at him and tiles and all kinds of stuff. And then when they would do that, he would just stand farther away and say, I would not dare to disrespect you. disrespect you, surely all of you are to become Buddhas. So when he was near death, he was rewarded with purity of vision and of sense faculties, and his life was extended for 10 million, billion, myriads of years.

[43:34]

So his reward is eternal life, and it turns out he was actually Shakyamuni Buddha. There's also a chapter on Samantabhadra, or the universal sage, and these comments, these sort of ways of saying things kind of echo through a lot of Zen teachings. So I'm just going to read you a small part of that. If you contemplate your mind, you will find no mind. What is sin? What is virtue? As the thought of self is itself empty, neither sin nor virtue is our master. In this way, all things are neither permanent nor destroyed. If one repents like this, meditating on one's mind, one finds no mind. So this has been a very short introduction to the Lotus Sutra, and I've presented it as a Sutra of Faith and Teaching,

[44:42]

And this sutra, as I said, it exhorts and promises and moves between cosmological and daily reality. And it offers parables to encourage and to warn against various views and behaviors. And it confirms and rejects Buddhist teachings and contradicts itself. It's not clear what the sutra is offering. It relies on traditions that it's also agreeing with, disagreeing with. And yet, or therefore, it is the most popular Buddhist scripture. Because this contradictory stuff, it's sort of... Anyway, it's a reflection in a way of ourselves. And I was thinking about that a lot as I was studying it. So... Daniel Kahneman's descriptions of fast and slow thinking remind me of Buddhist psychology.

[45:46]

There's these teachings of Abhidharma and Alayavishnana consciousness, the storehouse consciousness, and Abhidharma analyzes moments of consciousness and storehouse consciousness is composed of all these assumptions that are partial, some of them are true and some of them are false, but they all act together to perpetuate and confirm our preferences. So I think examining these teachings requires a fair amount of slow thinking, which also requires some snacks and some cups of tea. You have to take a little break sometimes and get your energy back. And it has its pleasures, which is the part we often forget, that there's this enlivening aspect to it. So I'm gonna end with a story about physical effort that I think is comparable to the effort of studying and thinking about the teachings and doctrines and dogmas of Buddhism and how we can use them to reinterpret or reinforce our already knowing mind and how they can also be kind of applied as reflection and questioning

[47:08]

towards this deeper development and soteriological transformation. So many years ago, a friend and I were regularly going to the gym and bicycling and cross-country skiing. And we'd gotten pretty good at skiing and we'd go almost every weekend that we could And we'd get up early in the morning, drive to Tahoe, ski for a few hours, and drive home. And it was wonderful. I loved it. And when we would get there, I'd start the day warming up on these little trails, these training trails. And then I'd go out to ski and I'd think, why do I like this so much? Like for the first 20 minutes I'd be like, huh. And then I'd forget. And the effort and the freedom of it, I would just go all day long.

[48:11]

But it was so funny. Every time for those first 20 minutes, I'd be like, oh. So one day, we decided to try this difficult trail. And the way it was constructed, it would be very steep and then a sort of flat place and then very steep and sort of flat place. So we went down the first... incline. And when we met at the bottom, we were just shaking, you know, trembling. And we were standing there, just sort of getting ready to go on. And this man came up the other way. And he had been climbing these steep inclines. And he was covered with sweat. And he was resting. Out of breath. And so we just asked him, well, how was the rest of the trail? You know, because we were wondering how steep it was.

[49:12]

And he said, fantastic. And it was, but it was also very scary and challenging. That first incline, I think, probably just minimally, it took like 10 times more concentration and effort to go down that hill than to go on the trails that we were used to. And we were... you know, up to the medium, which was fairly exciting. But after that experience, I was able to take more risks in my skiing and ski alone without being worried. And I always ended the day by climbing up and skiing down this very steep little practice hill. And when you climb up, on cross-country skis, you know, you can do this thing where you kind of climb up sideways, but it's very irritating and slow. So what you have to do is use your skis diagonally and your poles to keep you from sliding back.

[50:17]

So this man was climbing up those hills like that. But I would do it and I would go up and ski down and go up and ski down several times at the end of the day, you know, kind of to remember that and to keep that sort of sense of freedom. So I think there's that similar reluctance and the pleasure engaged in what Kahneman calls this lazy system two thinking, this slow thinking. So there's that initial tendency, oh, why do I enjoy this? You know, or that effort to, you know, and the frown that goes with it. And then, you know, that I want to already be skiing. So then we start to move into some deeper enjoyment and curiosity.

[51:21]

And I think the threshold of reluctance can move back as we remember the pleasure and develop some skills and concentration and facility in considering the complex and contradictory teachings or just negotiating our everyday decision making and the impact of all the information that comes towards us and the challenges of being with other people and with ourselves and all that kind of stuff. And experience, you know, this kind of exhilaration and informed risk that I think Sukiroshi means by beginner's mind. So, thank you very much. Thank you for listening to this podcast offered by the San Francisco Zen Center. Our Dharma talks are offered at no cost and this is made possible by the donations we receive. Your financial support helps us to continue to offer the Dharma.

[52:26]

For more information, visit sfcc.org and click giving. May we fully enjoy the Dharma.

[52:35]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_97.45